Re: [OpenFontLibrary] [Openfontlibrary] [Fwd: Re: "Fonts are protected are artistic works in the UK"]

[Dave Crossland]

2008/11/7 Christopher Fynn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>> As for copyright on font programs, the code of the font is copyrighted
>> the same as any other program. A font program will have the same
>> copyright term as any other program AFAIK. And a software licence can
>> be applied to it.
>
> But, according to , "typeface"
> refers to metal type - but  digital type is indeed an "artistic work".

That URL says,

"Protection for typefaces as artistic works under English copyright
law lasts for 25 years from the end of the year which they are first
marketed."
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Re: [OpenFontLibrary] [Openfontlibrary] [Fwd: Re: "Fonts are protected are artistic works in the UK"]

[Christopher Fynn]

Rob Myers wrote:

> But see here:

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyrights#Typefaces

> "England recognized copyright in typeface at least as early as
> 1916.[14] The current United Kingdom copyright statute, enacted in
> 1989, expressly refers to copyrights in typeface designs.[15] The
> British law also applies to designs produced before 1989."

> The part of the act that deals with the artistic design of typefaces is here:

> http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/plain/ukpga_19880048_en_content.htm#pt1-ch3-pb7

> This does indeed mention 25 years.

> As for copyright on font programs, the code of the font is copyrighted
> the same as any other program. A font program will have the same
> copyright term as any other program AFAIK. And a software licence can
> be applied to it.

But, according to , "typeface" 
refers to metal type - but  digital type is indeed an "artistic work".

- Chris

> This is a separate issue from copyright on the underlying typeface
> design. Most resources will talk about typeface designs when they
> actually mean font programs, and it's important to recognize when they
> are doing this.
> 
> - Rob.
> 
> On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 10:43 AM, Christopher Fynn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Dave Crossland wrote:
>>  > 2008/11/7 Christopher Fynn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>  >> From: 
>>  >
>>  >
>> http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/plain/ukpga_19880048_en_2#pt1-ch1-pb4
>>  > is the actual law, and confirms this copyright lasts for 25 years.
>>  >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> But if a font is an "artistic work" then the link you gave says:
>>
>> <<"copyright in a literary, dramatic, musical or artistic work expires
>> at the end of the period of 50 years from the end of the calendar year
>> in which the author dies, subject to the following provisions of this
>> section.">>
>>
>> and
>>
>> <<"(3) If the work is computer-generated neither of the above provisions
>> applies and copyright expires at the end of the period of 50 years from
>> the end of the calendar year in which the work was made. ">>
>>
>> Both sections say 50 years not 25
>>
>>
>> The following, which does mention 25 years, does not apply to a font as
>> such:
>>
>> <<"
>> Duration of copyright in typographical arrangement of published editions
>>
>> Copyright in the typographical arrangement of a published edition
>> expires at the end of the period of 25 years from the end of the
>> calendar year in which the edition was first published.">>
>>
>> That is for new typeset editions of otherwise out of copyright books.
>>
>> 
>>
>> - C
>>
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>> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/openfontlibrary
>>
> 
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Re: [OpenFontLibrary] [Openfontlibrary] [Fwd: Re: "Fonts are protected are artistic works in the UK"]

[Dave Crossland]

2008/11/7 Rob Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Please can we have reply-to-list as the default.

Done!
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Re: [OpenFontLibrary] [Openfontlibrary] [Fwd: Re: "Fonts are protected are artistic works in the UK"]

[Dave Crossland]

2008/11/7 Rob Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> I am now totally confused by that section. What is an "article" in
> this context? :-)

I think its bits of lead rather than "text of a short document" :-)
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Re: [OpenFontLibrary] [Openfontlibrary] [Fwd: Re: "Fonts are protected are artistic works in the UK"]

[Rob Myers]

I am now totally confused by that section. What is an "article" in
this context? :-)

On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Dave Crossland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> "For further information and legal advice on copyright protection of
> typefaces and fonts, contact our lawyers online or call us on 020 7353
> 2732."
>
> I just did that, and they'll call me back next week.

Make sure they do distinguish carefully between underlying typographic
designs and their representation in font software in any discussion.

- Rob.
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Re: [Openfontlibrary] [Fwd: Re: "Fonts are protected are artistic works in the UK"]

[Dave Crossland]

2008/11/7 Rob Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/plain/ukpga_19880048_en_content.htm#pt1-ch3-pb7

AHA! I thought I wasn't mistaken, but, well, it has been known :-D

> This does mention 25 years. But only in the context of marketing materials.

Er, hang on.

"(1) This section applies to the copyright in an artistic work
consisting of the design of a typeface where articles specifically
designed or adapted for producing material in that typeface have been
marketed by or with the licence of the copyright owner.

(2) After the period of 25 years from the end of the calendar year in
which the first such articles are marketed, the work may be copied by
making further such articles, or doing anything for the purpose of
making such articles, and anything may be done in relation to articles
so made, without infringing copyright in the work. "

This seems to say to me, "copyright applies to the design of a
typeface as an artistic WORK (life+70...) and then ARTICLES (bits of
lead) are made for printing in that typeface, under licence of the
artistic copyright (life+70) owner. But! 25 years after the ARTICLES
are put on sale, the ARTWORK may be copied by making further such BITS
OF LEAD or doing anything for the purpose of making such articles, and
anything may be done in relation to articles so made, WITHOUT
infringing (life+70) copyright in the ARTWORK."

Which is to say, the Lord giveth, and He taketh away. Haha! :-)

"For further information and legal advice on copyright protection of
typefaces and fonts, contact our lawyers online or call us on 020 7353
2732."

I just did that, and they'll call me back next week.
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Re: [Openfontlibrary] [Fwd: Re: "Fonts are protected are artistic works in the UK"]

[Rob Myers]

(Accidentally sent off-list. Merged with a follow-up also accidentally
sent off list. Please can we have reply-to-list as the default.)

IANAL, TINLA.

The "typographic arrangement of a work" is the layout of a book, not
the design of a typeface. It is this that has a term of 25 years.

I assume the rationale is that it is an incentive/protection for
publishers who invest in nice design for books despite the underlying
texts being public domain or by authors who might switch to a
different publisher.

But see here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyrights#Typefaces

"England recognized copyright in typeface at least as early as
1916.[14] The current United Kingdom copyright statute, enacted in
1989, expressly refers to copyrights in typeface designs.[15] The
British law also applies to designs produced before 1989."

The part of the act that deals with the artistic design of typefaces is here:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/plain/ukpga_19880048_en_content.htm#pt1-ch3-pb7

This does mention 25 years. But only in the context of marketing materials.

As for copyright on font programs, the code of the font is copyrighted
the same as any other program. A font program will have the same
copyright term as any other program AFAIK. And a software licence can
be applied to it.

This is a separate issue from copyright on the underlying typeface
design. Most resources will talk about typeface designs when they
actually mean font programs, and it's important to recognize when they
are doing this.

- Rob.
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Re: [Openfontlibrary] [Fwd: Re: "Fonts are protected are artistic works in the UK"]

[Dave Crossland]

2008/11/7 Christopher Fynn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>> http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/plain/ukpga_19880048_en_2#pt1-ch1-pb4
>>  is the actual law, and confirms this copyright lasts for 25 years.
>
> But if a font is an "artistic work" then the link you gave says:
> Both sections say 50 years not 25

That law is changed by
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1995/Uksi_19953297_en_3.htm#mdiv5 which
ups it to 70-from-death for artworks and 50 for computer generated
works.

> The following, which does mention 25 years, does not apply to a font as
> such:
>
> Duration of copyright in typographical arrangement of published editions

I was mistaken! Oops. :-)

I've updated http://openfontlibrary.org/wiki/Font_design accordingly
and created http://openfontlibrary.org/wiki/Public_domain to which I
hope other will add :-)
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[Openfontlibrary] [Fwd: Re: "Fonts are protected are artistic works in the UK"]

[Christopher Fynn]

Dave Crossland wrote:
 > 2008/11/7 Christopher Fynn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
 >> From: 
 >
 > 
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/plain/ukpga_19880048_en_2#pt1-ch1-pb4
 > is the actual law, and confirms this copyright lasts for 25 years.
 >




But if a font is an "artistic work" then the link you gave says:

<<"copyright in a literary, dramatic, musical or artistic work expires
at the end of the period of 50 years from the end of the calendar year
in which the author dies, subject to the following provisions of this
section.">>

and

<<"(3) If the work is computer-generated neither of the above provisions
applies and copyright expires at the end of the period of 50 years from
the end of the calendar year in which the work was made. ">>

Both sections say 50 years not 25


The following, which does mention 25 years, does not apply to a font as 
such:

<<"
Duration of copyright in typographical arrangement of published editions

Copyright in the typographical arrangement of a published edition
expires at the end of the period of 25 years from the end of the
calendar year in which the edition was first published.">>

That is for new typeset editions of otherwise out of copyright books.

 also says a digital font is
counted as an "artisic work" not a "typeface".

- C

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