Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Adobe's Source Sans Pro
On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 11:56 AM, Khaled Hosny khaledho...@eglug.org wrote: On Fri, Aug 03, 2012 at 11:07:50AM +0400, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 10:49 PM, Dave Crossland d...@lab6.com wrote: Haha damn you that would have been my fault if it was messed up! XD BTW, it's the first time I noticed this: is Pango really uncapable of seeing Extra Light weights? More than that, it renames weights. E.g. in both Inkscape and GIMP, I get Heavy instead of Black. That would be FontConfig not Pango. Hmmm, grepping /etc/fonts doesn't return anything related Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org
Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Adobe's Source Sans Pro
On Fri, Aug 03, 2012 at 12:04:47PM +0400, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 11:56 AM, Khaled Hosny khaledho...@eglug.org wrote: On Fri, Aug 03, 2012 at 11:07:50AM +0400, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 10:49 PM, Dave Crossland d...@lab6.com wrote: Haha damn you that would have been my fault if it was messed up! XD BTW, it's the first time I noticed this: is Pango really uncapable of seeing Extra Light weights? More than that, it renames weights. E.g. in both Inkscape and GIMP, I get Heavy instead of Black. That would be FontConfig not Pango. Hmmm, grepping /etc/fonts doesn't return anything related I wouldn't expect to find anything useful there (that logic is in the library itself). Using fc-query, it reports the same weight value for Light and Extra light fonts (50). Looking into the fonts OS/2 table, the Extra Light has weight value of 250 (not sure about the exact relation between FC weight and OS/2 one) while FontForge's predefined values suggest 200 for Extra Light, which corresponds to OS/2 table documentation: http://www.microsoft.com/typography/otspec/os2.htm#wtc So I'd say it is a font bug (might be a FontConfig limitation as well, I have some vague recollection about some discussion somewhere on whether OS/2 weight must be multiples of 100 or not). fc-query reports Black weight not Heavy. (I didn't installed the fonts, just using fc-query on the downloaded files). Regards, Khaled
Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Adobe's Source Sans Pro
On Fri, Aug 03, 2012 at 10:32:19AM +0200, Khaled Hosny wrote: So I'd say it is a font bug (might be a FontConfig limitation as well, I have some vague recollection about some discussion somewhere on whether OS/2 weight must be multiples of 100 or not). http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-font/2011JanMar/0042.html (check the whole thread) Regards, Khaled
Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Adobe's Source Sans Pro
That's right (i think) the usWeightClass in OS/2 tables must be multiples of 100. Source Sans Extra Light has a value of 250. The value should be 200, as the Light version is already 300. -v On 3 Aug 2012, at 09:32, Khaled Hosny khaledho...@eglug.org wrote: So I'd say it is a font bug (might be a FontConfig limitation as well, I have some vague recollection about some discussion somewhere on whether OS/2 weight must be multiples of 100 or not).
Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Adobe's Source Sans Pro
Okay, I pinged Paul via Twitter about that. Thanks for the hint! Alexandre On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 12:38 PM, vern adams v...@newtypography.co.uk wrote: That's right (i think) the usWeightClass in OS/2 tables must be multiples of 100. Source Sans Extra Light has a value of 250. The value should be 200, as the Light version is already 300. -v On 3 Aug 2012, at 09:32, Khaled Hosny khaledho...@eglug.org wrote: So I'd say it is a font bug (might be a FontConfig limitation as well, I have some vague recollection about some discussion somewhere on whether OS/2 weight must be multiples of 100 or not). -- Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org
Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Adobe's Source Sans Pro
OpenType allows weight values from 1 to 999. CSS is the one rounding those to multiples of 100 from 100 to 900. Fontconfig maps them to some range from 0 to 210 (I'm not sure there). Fontconfig also has multiple aliases for its weight value 40: extralight or ultralight, and its weight value 210: black or heavy. So applications just using those values to name variants might not match the OT names. On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com wrote: Okay, I pinged Paul via Twitter about that. Thanks for the hint! Alexandre On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 12:38 PM, vern adams v...@newtypography.co.uk wrote: That's right (i think) the usWeightClass in OS/2 tables must be multiples of 100. Source Sans Extra Light has a value of 250. The value should be 200, as the Light version is already 300. -v On 3 Aug 2012, at 09:32, Khaled Hosny khaledho...@eglug.org wrote: So I'd say it is a font bug (might be a FontConfig limitation as well, I have some vague recollection about some discussion somewhere on whether OS/2 weight must be multiples of 100 or not). -- Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org -- Denis Moyogo Jacquerye African Network for Localisation http://www.africanlocalisation.net/ Nkótá ya Kongó míbalé --- http://info-langues-congo.1sd.org/ DejaVu fonts --- http://www.dejavu-fonts.org/
Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Adobe's Source Sans Pro
On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 11:14 AM, vern adams v...@newtypography.co.ukwrote: It's a bad OS/2 usWeightClass value (nothing to do with CSS). So, the '250' is getting rounded up to '300' and therefore clashing with the Light version which already has WeightClass of 300. I think it's simple human error; the usWeightClass in the 'font.ttf' that Adobe have included with the source of Source Sans Extra Light is '200'. Also, some of the fonts have fsType of 0x0004 (Documents containing Preview Print fonts must be opened read-only; no edits can be applied to the document), but i assume Adobe means all the Source Sans fonts should be set to 0x. -v And (finally) we are legally allowed to fix a broken element in an Adobe font!
Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Adobe's Source Sans Pro
On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 11:14 AM, vern adams v...@newtypography.co.uk wrote: It's a bad OS/2 usWeightClass value (nothing to do with CSS). Where do you get that from? The specs http://www.microsoft.com/typography/otspec/os2.htm do not specify such restriction on usWeightClass, even if it describes specific values. Microsoft and Adobe frequently talk about a 1 to 999 range (see http://blogs.adobe.com/typblography/atypi2006/CSS%20%26%20OT%2015.pdf or http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.windows.fontweights.aspx). So, the '250' is getting rounded up to '300' and therefore clashing with the Light version which already has WeightClass of 300. I think it's simple human error; the usWeightClass in the 'font.ttf' that Adobe have included with the source of Source Sans Extra Light is '200'. The 250 is common practice, not human error. See http://www.adobe.com/devnet/opentype/afdko/topic_font_wt_win.html Also, some of the fonts have fsType of 0x0004 (Documents containing Preview Print fonts must be opened read-only; no edits can be applied to the document), but i assume Adobe means all the Source Sans fonts should be set to 0x. -v On 3 Aug 2012, at 09:51, Denis Jacquerye moy...@gmail.com wrote: OpenType allows weight values from 1 to 999. CSS is the one rounding those to multiples of 100 from 100 to 900. Fontconfig maps them to some range from 0 to 210 (I'm not sure there). Fontconfig also has multiple aliases for its weight value 40: extralight or ultralight, and its weight value 210: black or heavy. So applications just using those values to name variants might not match the OT names. -- Denis Moyogo Jacquerye
Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Adobe's Source Sans Pro
You can use whatever value you like, BUT, Thin=100, ExtraLight = 200, Light=300 etc etc So if you create a font with a usWeightClass of 250 it's neither ExtraLight or Light, but some software will need to know which it is and decide :) Hence, it's a good idea to stick with a multiple of 100. An app like DTL's OpenTypeMaster flags non multiples of 100 as 'invalid usWeightClass' -v On 3 Aug 2012, at 12:11, Denis Jacquerye moy...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 11:14 AM, vern adams v...@newtypography.co.uk wrote: It's a bad OS/2 usWeightClass value (nothing to do with CSS). Where do you get that from? The specs http://www.microsoft.com/typography/otspec/os2.htm do not specify such restriction on usWeightClass, even if it describes specific values. Microsoft and Adobe frequently talk about a 1 to 999 range (see http://blogs.adobe.com/typblography/atypi2006/CSS%20%26%20OT%2015.pdf or http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.windows.fontweights.aspx).
Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Adobe's Source Sans Pro
On 3 August 2012 04:14, vern adams v...@newtypography.co.uk wrote: some of the fonts have fsType of 0x0004 (Documents containing Preview Print fonts must be opened read-only; no edits can be applied to the document), but i assume Adobe means all the Source Sans fonts should be set to 0x. Really? $ for i in `ls -1 *ttf`; do showttf $i | grep -i fst; done fstype=0x0 fstype=0x0 fstype=0x0 fstype=0x0 fstype=0x0 fstype=0x0 fstype=0x0 fstype=0x0 fstype=0x0 fstype=0x0 fstype=0x0 fstype=0x0
Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Adobe's Source Sans Pro
On 3 August 2012 06:22, vern adams v...@newtypography.co.uk wrote: An app like DTL's OpenTypeMaster flags non multiples of 100 as 'invalid usWeightClass' That's a web specification, and this is (like vertical metrics) a situation where you can't make a good tradeoff, the metadata either has to be set for the web or for the desktop. As Denis said, 250 is a legacy Windows workaround - http://www.adobe.com/devnet/opentype/afdko/topic_font_wt_win.html - The fonts in GWF have 100s values.
Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Adobe's Source Sans Pro
ah it's the font files called 'font.ttf' in each weight that seem to have fstype 0x0004. I guess they don't count. My mistake ;p On 3 Aug 2012, at 13:44, Dave Crossland d...@lab6.com wrote: On 3 August 2012 04:14, vern adams v...@newtypography.co.uk wrote: some of the fonts have fsType of 0x0004 (Documents containing Preview Print fonts must be opened read-only; no edits can be applied to the document), but i assume Adobe means all the Source Sans fonts should be set to 0x. Really? $ for i in `ls -1 *ttf`; do showttf $i | grep -i fst; done fstype=0x0 fstype=0x0 fstype=0x0 fstype=0x0 fstype=0x0 fstype=0x0 fstype=0x0 fstype=0x0 fstype=0x0 fstype=0x0 fstype=0x0 fstype=0x0
Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Adobe's Source Sans Pro
Don't be so sure: http://www.adobe.com/devnet/opentype/afdko/topic_font_wt_win.html On Fri, Aug 03, 2012 at 10:14:54AM +0100, vern adams wrote: It's a bad OS/2 usWeightClass value (nothing to do with CSS). So, the '250' is getting rounded up to '300' and therefore clashing with the Light version which already has WeightClass of 300. I think it's simple human error; the usWeightClass in the 'font.ttf' that Adobe have included with the source of Source Sans Extra Light is '200'. Also, some of the fonts have fsType of 0x0004 (Documents containing Preview Print fonts must be opened read-only; no edits can be applied to the document), but i assume Adobe means all the Source Sans fonts should be set to 0x. -v On 3 Aug 2012, at 09:51, Denis Jacquerye moy...@gmail.com wrote: OpenType allows weight values from 1 to 999. CSS is the one rounding those to multiples of 100 from 100 to 900. Fontconfig maps them to some range from 0 to 210 (I'm not sure there). Fontconfig also has multiple aliases for its weight value 40: extralight or ultralight, and its weight value 210: black or heavy. So applications just using those values to name variants might not match the OT names.
Re: [OpenFontLibrary] Adobe's Source Sans Pro
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 8:30 PM, Dave Crossland wrote: http://blogs.adobe.com/typblography/2012/08/source-sans-pro.html Okay, this is becoming extremely puzzling. According to metadata: - typefaces were made by Ascender Corporation - the license is Apache v2.0 - Open Sans is a trademark of Google and may be registered in certain jurisdictions. - Digitized data copyright © 2010-2011, Google (not 2012-2012) The blog posting doesn't mention any of that. What gives? Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org
