Re: More US patent madness
I agree it is not the system but the individuals/companies that abuse it. I wonder why so many people want to come live in the US? - Original Message - From: Tomlinson, Steven B [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 5:30 PM Subject: RE: More US patent madness I like the U.S. Patent, Trademark, and Copyright system. It is part of the foundation of my country and was written into our Constitution from the beginning. Some organizations may find ways to unfairly exploit the system, however, in the end, common sense tends to prevail and the exploitation is undone and the process and intent of the IP system becomes more clearly defined along the way. For example, in 1993 Compton's was awarded a patent for the search and retrieval of text, pictures, audio, and animated data, clearly ridiculous to those of us in the industry at the time. By March of 1994 upon challenge and review the patent was rescinded. Article 1, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution reads: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries; Sounds like a great idea to me. Let's encourage people to do useful things and allow them to be rewarded for it! This system has worked quite well for the last 200+ years in providing many of the modern conveniences I enjoy every day. I feel encouraged that if I do invent something completely novel I can recoup the investment I made in pursuit of the invention for a limited time. Of course you are free to invent a better mousetrap, you could even Patent the better mousetrap and if you feel the desire give it away for nothing in return, or not. In my opinion, this is true freedom. Being forced to give away something or worse yet, not having legal protection when something is taken from me is the opposite of freedom. Note: These opinions are strictly my own and are not to be construed to be the views of my employer or anyone else. -Original Message- From: Tim Churches [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 7:00 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: More US patent madness See http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/06/02/1086058889577.html In the 19th and 20th Centuries the struggle was over the ownership of capital means of production. In the 21st Century it is increasingly clear that the struggle will be over the right to use ideas. George Monbiot has written some thought provoking articles on this - see for example http://www.guardian.co.uk/globalisation/story/0,7369,665969,00.html Tim C
Re: More US patent madness
On 4 Jun 2004, at 12:23 AM, Tim Churches wrote: On Fri, 2004-06-04 at 03:01, will ross wrote: [1] the foss process in and of itself disintermediates the patent system as it is perceived by (and abused by) the patentistas Not so. FOSS is a) heavily dependent on existing intellectual property protection regimes - specifically, copyright. b) FOSS products are just as liable to the threat of or actual legal action over patent infringements as commercial software c) you can't depend on copyright law but then say patent law doesn't matter. Consistent approaches are to i) obrogate Western style intellectual property protection regimes altogether - a desirable and possibly viable option for developing countries, as George Monbiot points out or ii) try to reform the existing system. Of course i) can only be done at a national level - it is fruitless and ill-advised for individuals or small groups to act illegally and flout existing laws. note that i said as it is perceived by (and abused by)... you commented on patent absurdities, and supported it with a 2002 article from monbiot representing views of anti-globalisation activists who have long standing and valid critiques of the bretton woods hegemony. (have you read chomsky's hegemony or survival? it's good stuff, but not really relevant to oshca.) i raised an alternate plausibility regarding patents which is poorly appreciated by politically correct anti-globalisation fundamentalists: that the open source process itself will radically alter both the nature of patents as an economic system and the balance of power under the patenting regime, re-tilting the currently skewed playing field to the immediate benefit of creative producers and away from the highly capitalised exclusionists who are abusing patent ownership as a deliberate business domination strategy. i supported my suggestion with a reference to a current book by webber, along with a relevant quote about the shift from scarce access to information before open source, to abundant access to information with open source. you ridicule my book, ignore my suggestions, and restate your original points more strongly. gee, tim, you do a great impression of an ugly american who, having discovered that his english isn't understood, raises his voice and adds a bad spanish accent to the same words in hopes of being better understood the second time around. i heard you the first time. [2] increasing the success of open source solutions reduces the relevance of outrageous patents How? What is teh logic behind this assertion? it's in #1. if webber is right and open source processes revolutionise the balance of intellectual property ownership under the current laws, then this reduces the relevance of outrageous claims (like microsoft patenting the double click, or sco's unix ownership lawsuits). i'm not saying this is so, only that it is an interesting observation raised by webber. [3] patent reform in any country is not immediately relevant [a] because patent abuse shenanigans are a sign of creative failure (and of foss success) Creative impoverishment never stopped any corporation from trampling others. or from going down the tubes once they switch revenue streams from creative innovation to legal extortion. [b] because in the long cycle strengthening the foss portfolio builds an unassailable commons Are are saying that the popularity and thus political sway of FOSS will protect it against legal challenges under patent law? FOSS will need to be a LOT more popular than it is now for that to be true. no, i'm suggesting that as the foss commons increases its breadth and depth, proprietary solutions and vendor lock in lose economic traction. my observations are based on evolutionary economics, not geopolitics or legislative activism. i'm suggesting that foss processes route around the damage of predatory patent nonsense and i'm suggesting that this is an unforeseen solution arriving beneath the radar. is it too little too late? time will tell. [c] see #1 will we ever disabuse the patentistas from their fundamental desire to sue their way to the top? no, their tactics remain valid on a microeconomic level, it's their strategic dependence upon private knowledge portfolios we are shredding with an asymmetric foss assault at a macroeconomic level. FOSS as a force at a macroeconomic level? Now or in the near future? Really? current asymmetric disintermediation from foss has macroeconomic potential, if current trends scale. am i outraged by the disneyfication of global culture? not really, i have trouble prioritising rage as an appropriate response. am i amused by patent madness among the globalisation elite? yes, i am amused by it. microsoft patents the double click? let them, they must be more desperate than i thought. can i stop masses of people who are unable to think for themselves from behaving like idiots? no, but i can contribute towards a long term
Re: More US patent madness
On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 06:26:47 -0400 rnovoa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree it is not the system but the individuals/companies that abuse it. I wonder why so many people want to come live in the US? Because I live here. :-) :-) :-) -- IV
Re: More US patent madness
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ignacio Valdes wrote: | On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 06:26:47 -0400 | rnovoa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | I | wonder why so many people want to come live in the US? | | | Because I live here. :-) :-) :-) -- IV | It's easy to think that way:) ~ According to the International Organization for Migration, the number of migrants has more than doubled worldwide over the last 35 years. Migrants now account for one out of every 35 people, some 2.9% of the World population. Up to the year 2000, here are leading areas for current immigrant populations: Europe - 56.1 million Asia- 49.7 million North America - 40.1 million So there are lot of people around the world wondering why so many people want to come and live in their country! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFAwIoYY+HG7UEwVGERAmDcAKC4xDl8rxjwjrSp8ZnGhczQe+ANiACgzwH2 YpJhOZkER/NeeNthxn13HAM= =mHUS -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: More US patent madness
On Fri, 2004-06-04 at 23:14, will ross wrote: you ridicule my book, ignore my suggestions, and restate your original points more strongly. gee, tim, you do a great impression of an ugly american who, having discovered that his english isn't understood, raises his voice and adds a bad spanish accent to the same words in hopes of being better understood the second time around. I'm learning that more than a few Americans have thin skins, react as if mortally wounded when others disagree with them, and are offended easily by any sarcasm or attempt at irony. i heard you the first time. OK, I'll shut up now. -- Tim C PGP/GnuPG Key 1024D/EAF993D0 available from keyservers everywhere or at http://members.optushome.com.au/tchur/pubkey.asc Key fingerprint = 8C22 BF76 33BA B3B5 1D5B EB37 7891 46A9 EAF9 93D0
Re: More US patent madness
Hi, ~ According to the International Organization for Migration, the number of migrants has more than doubled worldwide over the last 35 years. Migrants now account for one out of every 35 people, some 2.9% of the World population. Up to the year 2000, here are leading areas for current immigrant populations: Europe - 56.1 million Asia - 49.7 million North America - 40.1 million That's great stuff - in a few hundred years, we will all be African-Asian-European-Americans, then (with maybe a few left over Australians in a zoo). Regards calle
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