Re: [osol-discuss] So... when is Sun going to start offering SXCE/SXDE support contracts?
I think it'd be more difficult than that. OpenSolaris is effectively alpha quality (not even beta!) code, with new and modified features being introduced every now and then (on disk zfs format has changed twice!). Ofcourse, the quality of this allegedly alpha quality code beats some other production quality products any day, but that's a different issue. Enterprises might not like to receive extra surprise deliveries with the drops they upgrade to fix an issue. I think the current model where Sun provides some support for Solaris Express releases (released twice an year ??) might be more easy on customers and Sun too. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So... when is Sun going to start offering SXCE/SXDE support contracts?
If they did I would start selling shares... Why would you offer support contracts on your alpha and beta products? That you have asked this question perplexes me. Microsoft don't go around supporting Release candidates, IBM doesn't offer contracts on the open AIX beta releases and neither does Oracle 10g Express. If you are wanting an OpenSolaris derived Sun supported distribution you'll have to wait for Solaris [next] or hope that they copy Ubuntu's support model on Indiana. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] OS complains with no left space on device while there are enough free space
Gurus, V490+Solaris 9,On a 79GBytes file system /usr/local, where there are2 5GBytes free, system fails to create a 1GBytes file via mkfile: # df -h /usr/local Filesystem size used avail capacity Mounted on /dev/dsk/c1t1d0s6 79G53G25G69%/usr/local # cd /usr/local;mkfile 1g 1g Could not set length of 1g: No space left on device # ls -l 1g -rw--- 1 root other 0 Aug 1 14:42 1g The file 1g not be created with specified size,Suspect the inode may exhaust,check it find there are enough free inode: # df -o i /usr/local Filesystem iused ifree %iused Mounted on /dev/dsk/c1t1d0s66465258 3482011816% /usr/local How to fix it ? I've re-created the UFS filesystem and run fsck even. TIA. Best Rgds, Simon ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
Its about communication and advocacy - its about making sure developers understand the process of contributions and the rationale behind it - stop hiding under layers upon layers of documentation - documentation that is 9/10 filled with waffle. You don't like reading documentation, or what? What do you think, that development and/or engineering is a partisan, guerilla coding process? Sun documentation has always been one of the biggest incentives to take and implement Sun technology. What good is an awesome technology that there is just no documentation for? And, I have to ask myself how awesome is it really if the documentation is nonexistant, boils down to a couple of READMEs or HOWTOs, or just plain sucks. Awesome products start with (often just as awesome) documentation. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Drivers for ATI X1900
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007, [UTF-8] Ché Kristo wrote: You mention XiG (Xi Graphics), do they even exist anymore? Try http://www.xig.com/ and note that it times out... Yeah... we exist :) We just had a web hosting provider that screwed up a data center move so badly our server hasn't been seen since thursday. Screw 'em. New server is up. PS: this was valueweb/hostway. *Never* use them. Also note, we only support R300 in 2D with the FireMV. We are still working on ATI/AMD to add more, but... -- Jon Trulson mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] #include std/disclaimer.h No Kill I -Horta ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
So, I gave Solaris 10 (11/06) a shot. Solaris barfed all over me; like a girlfriend you love but who just can't get it together, it wouldn't get past the initial display probe and gave me an unintelligible (read blank) GUI screen. Welcome to the club! I've had problems with Solaris 10 and my laptop as well. For starters, Solaris 10 1/06 (back when it came out), just plain busted with some bizzare RAM error message flooding my screen. I knew my RAM chips were good because Windows XP Home ran just fine on this laptop, and so did SchilliX, the very first OpenSolaris distro. You tried and threw up your hands in the air. I didn't, because it pissed me off to high heavens. At this point, I knew that the problem was in the installer. Searching the bug database, I saw that the engineers gave up on that particular bug with no conclusive diagnostic. So I built a complete desktop system on my desktop PC, with all the bells and whistles, all the software I wanted, the whole kit'n'kaboodle, and made a Flash(TM) image out of that. Solaris has that technology and it was easy to use. Then I put that on an NFS server, it took one command to create an NFS share, and I fired up Solaris 9 (yes, nine!), mounted the NFS share and flashed the system with a Solaris 10 image I made. And guess what? Solaris worked, flawlessly. That was my reward for not giving up. In fact, I'm typing this on that same laptop, with Solaris 10 11/06 (u3) running on it. Installed over NFS. Works flawlessly, except for the sound, since the driver for my ChipSet hasn't been ported from SPARC yet. I guess when I get pissed off enough at that, I'll look into compiling it on the i86pc myself and backporting it to Solaris 10. Then *everything* on this laptop will work. Point: don't give up, and you will be rewarded. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Drivers for ATI X1900
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007, Alan Coopersmith wrote: ken mays wrote: http://ati.amd.com/products/catalyst/linux.html#2 We also actively assist developers in the Open Source community with their work, so if you absolutely require an open source driver for your graphics card, we can recommend using drivers from the DRI project, Utah-GLX project, or others. Nice marketing spin, but ATI hasn't been actively assisting the open source community for quite a while. They haven't exactly been supporting closed-source developers either... -- Jon Trulson mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] #include std/disclaimer.h No Kill I -Horta ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] OS complains with no left space on device while there are enough free space
Simon wrote: Gurus, V490+Solaris 9,On a 79GBytes file system /usr/local, where there are2 5GBytes free, system fails to create a 1GBytes file via mkfile: You are more than a little off topic for this (an OpenSolaris) list, try somewhere like comp.unix.solaris. Ian ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
You don't like reading documentation, or what? What do you think, that development and/or engineering is a partisan, guerilla coding process? Sun documentation has always been one of the biggest incentives to take and implement Sun technology. What good is an awesome technology that there is just no documentation for? And, I have to ask myself how awesome is it really if the documentation is nonexistant, boils down to a couple of READMEs or HOWTOs, or just plain sucks. Awesome products start with (often just as awesome) documentation. Some of your heroes would tell you, perhaps self-indulgently, if anything, that code is documentation. Never underestimate the power of power. -Artem ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
Windows ease of use is lame compared to OS X, and not much better than Solaris or Linux. Funny you should write that, as a remorseful iBook G4 user, I'm endlessly frustrated with Apple's usability guidelines. Mac OS X is one of the most frustrating UNIX systems I have had the misfortune of using. The thing is nearly braindead, even Windows is more sane as a desktop, even if it isn't robust. Choices Apple has made in human interface guidelines are extremely frustrating to me as a desktop user of OS X. I really, truly regret that I've spent my money on Apple OS X. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
What can the opensolaris community do? nothing, it has no money. Look here: Solaris 10 Software Developer Collection Writing Device Drivers http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/816-4854/ The real issue is, are you just an end user complaining and waiting for somebody else to solve it for you, gratis of course, or are you up to snuff? Every beginning is hard. However, think about this: - if you learn how to write Solaris device drivers, you will be able to land a job just about anywhere, should you ever pursue a computer-related career; - learning to write device drivers implies you will have learned C, really, really well; - satisfaction: you've scratched your own itch, you've made something work, you've helped the community, and you've helped push your favorite operating system forward - there's this thing of prestige - writing programs can be a fun, creative activity! This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
UNIX admin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, I gave Solaris 10 (11/06) a shot. Solaris barfed all over me; like a girlfriend you love but who just can't get it together, it wouldn't get past the initial display probe and gave me an unintelligible (read blank) GUI screen. Welcome to the club! I've had problems with Solaris 10 and my laptop as well. For starters, Solaris 10 1/06 (back when it came out), just plain busted with some bizzare RAM error message flooding my screen. I knew my RAM chips were good because Windows XP Home ran just fine on this laptop, and so did SchilliX, the very first OpenSolaris distro. You tried and threw up your hands in the air. I didn't, because it pissed me off to high heavens. My impression is that a current Nevada build with Gnome desktop will not work decently if it has less than 2 GB of RAM. This is really bad. Firefox + Xserver will soon consume 1.3 GB together and a 1 GB system will start excessive paging. Is this really needed? Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007, James Carlson wrote: I think I'm one of the command-line geeks this message refers to somewhat indirectly. My idea of a GUI is still twm with xterms and emacs windows, and I wouldn't really want to have it any other way. Just the same, I think having an environment available that can hide all of that away and that is robust enough that it's able to do so when things are going wrong would be great. I just suspect that it's far harder (read: expensive) to make that work in any reliable way than most would suppose. This type of open thinking is good, because there's not a lot of Jim Carlsons in the world. If we want to grow Solaris, we need to focus on areas which can allow more users to use Solaris seamlessly. This is exactly what our CEO has pointed out with Ubunto, and after last weeks allhands, I installed Ubunto on one of my computers. I honestly don't see Solaris as being too much different, albeit where Ubuntu has a leg up is in getting the bits on your computer, and updating them. First, during the install I selected some type of Guided partition/resize, thinking it would guide me through using fdisk or equivilant...bzzzt, wrong answer, and turned the computer off as it started to repartition the disk with whatever values were on a slider, which one was evidentally supposed to adjust before continuing. Next time around I did a manual install, and set the disk as I wanted (and no, I didn't loose any of the data on the computer). So, I get it installed, all the hardware was detected, and all is running, but on DHCP, not how I wanted it configured, but running none the less. So, one of the reasons I did want to install Ubuntu is that I have an opensource library which one of the Ubuntu developers wants to putback to Debian, and I am updating the name to prevent name collision with another library. Ah, but Ubunto doesn't install automake/autoconf/libtool by default, it's more user oriented. This is important, because I am similar to you in the regard that I just want this command tool that I need to use, and in this case I don't care about a GUI, but searching through the update GUI, I can't find any of the tools to save my life. Lucky for me, I am pretty familiar with Debian, which Ubuntu is based on, and can open a terminal, edit my sources.lst, do an apt-get update, and pull the packages down I wanted...including KDE/Kubuntu, and other stuff...but those pieces are not available through the default GUIs, AFAICT, with a default install. It's always kewl to see a large bundle like KDE pulling down 297 packages to install all it's glory... From a developer perspective, Ubuntu is no better than Solaris, IMO. Because even though it does get bits on the computer better, the bits are focused for a simpleton. Yes, I think we do need to attract these simpletons...so we have a double edge sword of adoption/attraction. I do wonder why we need to have a different GNOME desktop? Well, I know why we do it (i.e., JDS), but I'm not sure why we should. It only diverges us from the mainstream, and makes things different. Seems better to leverage the mainstream GNOME project to me, and be the same, the Ubuntu uses a stock GNOME desktop, AFAICT. Would be nice to see our desktop folks working on implementing solutions for out environment, rather than adding lipstick to the pig, for instance...wouldn't it be nice to grab a context menu and be able to get the information for zfs list? Well, for you it wouldn't, but for me it might. It confuses me that zfs has been out for about a year and a half and we don't see our desktop folks doing that type of simple integration. Being able to take snapshots, list information on zfs filesystems, or getting the status of a zpool, those are all things that should be available for the user. OTOH, we're making quite a bit of progress, we even have some wifi solutions in place, a modern X server, native OpenGL drivers for nvidia, and some basic power management, acceptable audio, much better x86 support with Sun finally selling x86 based systems. This is quite a bit better than we were a couple years ago, when S10 was released. Unfortunately our power play is zfs, and we don't have the abiltiy to boot and/or configure the system for it at install time. This will need to be transparent to the user, and to the user there should be little if any difference than using ufs, fat, ext2/3, gasp reiserfs, or other. Long story short, we need to retain the Jim Carlson users of the community, and be able to attract more of them, but at the same time we need to attract the simpletons to really drive adoption. This will take some jugglin', IMO, to keep all happy. -- Alan DuBoff - Solaris x86 IHV/OEM Group ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
Again, I agree; except for one point. Games should *never* be part of an OE; or ever allowed anywhere near. Multimedia, yes. Gaming, *definitively* no. Unless someone can possibly embed a flight-simulator into init/inittab/SMF as a new run-level - init F / svcadm enable fltsim, perhaps. Perhaps I should have been more clear: I meant if there is good 3rd party software for Solaris, that will drive user adoption and that in turn will drive more software for Solaris. That includes games, too. Indeed, gaming is important, and timing could be better with commercial-quality equivalents of Linux gaming down to zero (article is on Slashdot). Nvidia has clearly demonstrated with their drivers that Solaris can be made into a powerful, slick 3D OS. SDL, the Simple Direct Media Layer, the pandan to DirectX, exists for Solaris. The only thing lacking is a good audio mixer as part of the OS and not just a retrofitted afterthought; then, all the multimedia predispositions will be met. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
Some of your heroes would tell you, perhaps self-indulgently, if anything, that code is documentation. Never underestimate the power of power. Code can be documentation if the variable names used are self-explanatory and if the working of the code is documented in plain, simple English. Together with structured, professional-quality, detailed documentation, it rounds up a quality product. Never underestimate their intelligence; always underestimate their knowledge. And: a product is only as good as his documentation and test suite. No more, no less. (Personal note: I have no heroes. There are people who have earned my respect, but I will always follow my own way. I am a person of my own convictions.) This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Run Vb Application Sun Solaris 10
Good Evening Everybody, I am a s/w engineer, Currently I am Facing a very critical problem, if Someebody have any suggestion related to my problem then post ur suggestion. [b]Problem : I want to Run Vb Application and MS Access as a backend on Sun Solaris 10. I want to make solaris system is operating system and other window based system Access Application and database from that Solaris System.[/b] Thanks Regards Sarit Saini This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] OS complains with no left space on device while there are enough free space
On 8/1/07, Simon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gurus, V490+Solaris 9,On a 79GBytes file system /usr/local, where there are2 5GBytes free, system fails to create a 1GBytes file via mkfile:# df -h /usr/local Filesystem size used avail capacity Mounted on /dev/dsk/c1t1d0s6 79G53G25G69%/usr/local # cd /usr/local;mkfile 1g 1g Could not set length of 1g: No space left on device # ls -l 1g -rw--- 1 root other 0 Aug 1 14:42 1g The file 1g not be created with specified size,Suspect the inode may exhaust,check it find there are enough free inode: # df -o i /usr/local Filesystem iused ifree %iused Mounted on /dev/dsk/c1t1d0s66465258 3482011816% /usr/local How to fix it ? I've re-created the UFS filesystem and run fsck even. Could you send your /etc/mnttab? TIA. Best Rgds, Simon ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Windows switcher: Wine for Solaris ( DC++ )?
I'd love to hear suggestions *because* I do have code that I'd like to see run on both Solaris and Linux which reports fine grained timing information with some degree of accuracy. gethrtime() is available on Linux if you install the RTLinux extension to the kernel. The easiest way to do this is to get a prepatched kernel... but you could also do cd /usr/src/linux/ make menuconfig Basically you'll have to recompile the kernel with the RT extension. Then you'll be able to do: ifdef Linux #include rtl_time.h endif Yuck. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana Wish List
For a Windows user, these things are essential for a successfull switch: -chat, msn -web cam -photoshop-esque program. -file sharing; bittorrent and DC++. Important. -office -film player without juggling with codecs -Wine for individual needs (some user might need an unusual program, hence: wine) -an easy internet setup (maybe wireless) Ive had found substitutes for all those, but it takes time to set it up (DC++ runs on Wine, would prefer solaris native). Would be nice if it all was automatic setup. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
Nice Job! Persistence and creativity are excellent traits. It really is not a matter of giving up, though. As I said, if I had another notebook, I'd give it a shot but this is my only notebook, currently and I use it for business, every day. Also, I do run as many as six, x86 and x86-64 Solaris Server builds at a time for client simulations (usually 1-3). So, when I pick up my new notebook, I'll give it a shot once again. I may try it on this box one more time, today, using OpenSolaris, as David Comay, was kind enough to suggest this as an alternative, and I haven't really built much on it except a few new email addresses. If I do it, I'll report back with the results. I'm off to build a DVD I guess. ejm This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana Wish List
Orvar Korvar wrote: For a Windows user, these things are essential for a successfull switch: -chat, msn Pidgin, nee GAIM. -web cam Works to some extent already with Ekiga. -photoshop-esque program. GIMP - already in Solaris Express. -file sharing; bittorrent and DC++. Important. bittorrent and Azurus both work just fine. -office OpenOffice.org or its peer StarOffice. -an easy internet setup (maybe wireless) See the NWAM project on opensolaris.org, it doesn't get much easier than automagic :-) ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Two noob questions (kernel/filesystem)
Converting from symlink to lofs mount for package-delivered directories is trivial, so I'll assume you don't need instructions. Cleaning up the mess means merging back together two directory trees. If you had this before the errant package install: /opt/csw - /export/csw /export/csw/... then you'll have this afterwards: /opt/csw/... /export/csw/... In other words, the symlink is removed by packaging (you'll see a conflict go by, but almost everyone says yes to pkgadd because it asks too many darned questions), and you're left with two independent directories, each with half the content. To fix, either: - Manually move the bits from under /opt/csw/... to o the corresponding location under /export/csw/..., leaving behind an empty /opt/csw/ directory as a mount point. Then create the lofs mount. kgrm to remove all of the _new_ packages in /opt/csw. Create the lofs mount and reinstall those packages. -- James Carlson, Solaris Networking [EMAIL PROTECTED] ems / 1 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084 MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677 _ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org Thanks for the tutorial. It will take some time for us to digest, but thanks a whole a lot for spending time to write this info. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So... when is Sun going to start offering SXCE/SXDE support contracts?
Ian Collins wrote: Brian Gupta wrote: It would make it easier for some of us to deploy OpenSolaris. How can Sun support something that changes every couple of weeks and doesn't support patching? I suppose they could provide a help line with a recorded message please upgrade the the latest release :) Ian Well, let's see what we can do w/ a new packaging system that lets us upgrade Solaris easily see my latest blog entry on dim sum patching. - Bart -- Bart Smaalders Solaris Kernel Performance [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://blogs.sun.com/barts ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Getting a Lucrative Sponsorship Funded
The Open Solaris Community in San Diego has an opportunity to fund the local SW council which is a respected non-profit organization with a membership 200 SW corporations (Oracle, Qualcomm, Accucorp, FAir Isaac etc.) SDIC has a huge database, is well-connected with UCSD and will help us in promoting our events through their database of 4000 IT Managers, CTO's and developers. They will also let us manage their open SW interest group. So what is the hitch? We do not know how to get the sponsorship money. Please help if you have any idea. We have a tremendous potential to get something good going. IBM is also ramping up here and we need this extra push. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Two noob questions (kernel/filesystem)
Really ? That is odd. You should be able to make sX into whatever filesystem you want. The installer is not aware of slices over 7 but really, you can move a filesystem to slice 14 afterwards if you wanted to. very odd Dennis Not very clear about what you meant by the first part. But we will be experimenting moving the /export/home and the /opt/csw (Blastwave) slices to an external (eSATA) drive to make room (more slices) to install BeleniX, NexentaOS, Indiana. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Getting a Lucrative Sponsorship Funded
The Open Solaris Community in San Diego has an opportunity to fund the local SW council which is a respected non-profit organization with a membership 200 SW corporations (Oracle, Qualcomm, Accucorp, FAir Isaac etc.) SDIC has a huge database, is well-connected with UCSD and will help us in promoting our events through their database of 4000 IT Managers, CTO's and developers. They will also let us manage their open SW interest group. So what is the hitch? We do not know how to get the sponsorship money. Please help if you have any idea. We have a tremendous potential to get something good going. IBM is also ramping up here and we need this extra push. I don't really understand. Who are you seeking sponsorship for ? For The Open Solaris Community in San Diego or some SW council or whom? - Dennis Clarke ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Portable UPnP SDK : build success
Greetings it seems there is plenty of freeware servers developed .. This looked promising but no idea how it will sit in to solaris. Gives me idea , how about found a UPnP Media server project ?? This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Getting a Lucrative Sponsorship Funded
Fauzia (foz) Saeed wrote: The Open Solaris Community in San Diego has an opportunity to fund the local SW council which is a respected non-profit organization with a membership 200 SW corporations (Oracle, Qualcomm, Accucorp, FAir Isaac etc.) SDIC has a huge database, is well-connected with UCSD and will help us in promoting our events through their database of 4000 IT Managers, CTO's and developers. They will also let us manage their open SW interest group. So what is the hitch? We do not know how to get the sponsorship money. Please help if you have any idea. You'll have to find a sponsor, such as Sun or another company, who has money - OpenSolaris itself has no money. -- -Alan Coopersmith- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
On games, I'm not sure everyone knows this, so I'll point it out. Games are a killer app for PCs, and they have been for years. (They make people buy computers.) There is a lot of money in this stuff, but it takes a lot of money to get right. Microsoft hasn't been steering the PC gaming ship as well as it could be, so there is room for improvement there. Games for Windows is a new move of theirs to bring more standardization into PC gaming. Standardization is gd. Game consoles are just extra computers for the home, but they are very successful because of the standardization they bring. In theory they make it easier to develop games and harder to pirate games. The standardization results in a better experience for the gamer and the game developer and the hardware developer. The gamer gets better games, the game developer saves time and money, and the hardware developer makes more money. In theory, anyway! The downside is that the gamer has just paid more money. That brings us back to Solaris and its standardization. Standardization is gd! This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Getting a Lucrative Sponsorship Funded
On 8/1/07, Fauzia Saeed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Where in Sun do I find someone to sponsor it? Alan Coopersmith wrote: Fauzia (foz) Saeed wrote: The Open Solaris Community in San Diego has an opportunity to fund the local SW council which is a respected non-profit organization with a membership 200 SW corporations (Oracle, Qualcomm, Accucorp, FAir Isaac etc.) SDIC has a huge database, is well-connected with UCSD and will help us in promoting our events through their database of 4000 IT Managers, CTO's and developers. They will also let us manage their open SW interest group. So what is the hitch? We do not know how to get the sponsorship money. Please help if you have any idea. You'll have to find a sponsor, such as Sun or another company, who has money - OpenSolaris itself has no money. I suspect that you would need to put together a proposal outlining a) the costs involved, b) the direct financial benefits, c) the direct non-financial benefits, and c) the indirect benefits. (Just what I would expect, if I were a manager at Sun, with a budget). Once you have a proposal, either forward it to Product Management/Marketing, or your direct manager. (Whichever makes the most sense in your situation.) In corporate America, the route is generally via a chain of command. At tech firms, where there is a flatter org structure, you should be able to go directly to the benefactors. -brian ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Getting a Lucrative Sponsorship Funded
I want Sun to sponsor the San Diego SW Council. We will then ask them to partner with us in promoting Open Solaris. Dennis Clarke wrote: The Open Solaris Community in San Diego has an opportunity to fund the local SW council which is a respected non-profit organization with a membership 200 SW corporations (Oracle, Qualcomm, Accucorp, FAir Isaac etc.) SDIC has a huge database, is well-connected with UCSD and will help us in promoting our events through their database of 4000 IT Managers, CTO's and developers. They will also let us manage their open SW interest group. So what is the hitch? We do not know how to get the sponsorship money. Please help if you have any idea. We have a tremendous potential to get something good going. IBM is also ramping up here and we need this extra push. I don't really understand. Who are you seeking sponsorship for ? For The Open Solaris Community in San Diego or some SW council or whom? - Dennis Clarke ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Getting a Lucrative Sponsorship Funded
Where in Sun do I find someone to sponsor it? Alan Coopersmith wrote: Fauzia (foz) Saeed wrote: The Open Solaris Community in San Diego has an opportunity to fund the local SW council which is a respected non-profit organization with a membership 200 SW corporations (Oracle, Qualcomm, Accucorp, FAir Isaac etc.) SDIC has a huge database, is well-connected with UCSD and will help us in promoting our events through their database of 4000 IT Managers, CTO's and developers. They will also let us manage their open SW interest group. So what is the hitch? We do not know how to get the sponsorship money. Please help if you have any idea. You'll have to find a sponsor, such as Sun or another company, who has money - OpenSolaris itself has no money. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
On Aug 1, 2007, at 1:14 PM, MC wrote: On games, I'm not sure everyone knows this, so I'll point it out. Games are a killer app for PCs, and they have been for years. (They make people buy computers.) There is a lot of money in this stuff, but it takes a lot of money to get right. Microsoft hasn't been steering the PC gaming ship as well as it could be, so there is room for improvement there. Games for Windows is a new move of theirs to bring more standardization into PC gaming. Standardization is gd. Game consoles are just extra computers for the home, but they are very successful because of the standardization they bring. In theory they make it easier to develop games and harder to pirate games. The standardization results in a better experience for the gamer and the game developer and the hardware developer. The gamer gets better games, the game developer saves time and money, and the hardware developer makes more money. In theory, anyway! The downside is that the gamer has just paid more money. I thought I read somewhere (can't find the source) that the market for PC games is shrinking and the market for console games is growing (Wii/PS3/Xbox 360). The only exception being MMORPGs like WoW. The state of gaming is sad on the second largest desktop, Mac OS X, so I would suspect that Linux and Solaris would fall way down the list. But I do agree with you, games would definitely attract a different crowd than Solaris is used to, in a positive way. -john ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
Brian: I'm not a lawyer so I can't really comment on what Ubuntu is doing with any authority. There are probably some cases where users could legally install such IP protected code. Examples could include: - people who live in countries that have different IP law (I'd bet countries that seriously disregard IP law aren't countries where IT companies want to do much business, though). - people who already own license to use IP in such a way. In this case, if people have already worked with a lawyer to ensure they have a license, then by comparison building and installing the code should be much less work. Therefore, I don't really see the value in making it so easy to build or install IP protected codecs. People who want such codecs should probably buy them from a company like Fluendo and therefore ensure that they are doing things legally and supporting the existing frameworks to make IP protected codecs available on free operating systems. Brian It's interesting how Ubuntu does it. They point you to external sources, that they don't vouch for the codecs. (They just make the install painless. IE: Unrecognized filetype/streamtype. Do you want me to look for one that work? If you say yes... and you are looking at a quicktime file, it points you to a non apple codec, which I am pretty sure is not kosher. It does give you a warning though.) Brian ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org mailto:opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
On 8/1/07, Brian Cameron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brian: I'm not a lawyer so I can't really comment on what Ubuntu is doing with any authority. There are probably some cases where users could legally install such IP protected code. Examples could include: - people who live in countries that have different IP law (I'd bet countries that seriously disregard IP law aren't countries where IT companies want to do much business, though). - people who already own license to use IP in such a way. In this case, if people have already worked with a lawyer to ensure they have a license, then by comparison building and installing the code should be much less work. Therefore, I don't really see the value in making it so easy to build or install IP protected codecs. People who want such codecs should probably buy them from a company like Fluendo and therefore ensure that they are doing things legally and supporting the existing frameworks to make IP protected codecs available on free operating systems. First off, as I understand the Codecs are opensource. They also might be legal, but the status is not clear. If Mac OS and Windows, and Ubuntu can view these files, we should look at making a solaris desktop as easy to use. Currently desktop usage of Solaris is tiny. Large developers aren't really targetting SOlaris (just as most large developers aren't targeting ubuntu yet.) The fact of the matter is, for OpenSolaris to gain market share as a desktop (developer or otherwise), we can't lag in the usability area. The point wasn't really so much that the IP is unknown status, more that it outomatacilly goes and gets software and codecs painlessly. (Even asking you if you want to get ZYX pacakge, when it thinks you could use it.). Brian Brian It's interesting how Ubuntu does it. They point you to external sources, that they don't vouch for the codecs. (They just make the install painless. IE: Unrecognized filetype/streamtype. Do you want me to look for one that work? If you say yes... and you are looking at a quicktime file, it points you to a non apple codec, which I am pretty sure is not kosher. It does give you a warning though.) Brian ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org mailto:opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Getting a Lucrative Sponsorship Funded
Proposal is done. Who are the right people in product marketing? Brian Gupta wrote: On 8/1/07, *Fauzia Saeed* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Where in Sun do I find someone to sponsor it? Alan Coopersmith wrote: Fauzia (foz) Saeed wrote: The Open Solaris Community in San Diego has an opportunity to fund the local SW council which is a respected non-profit organization with a membership 200 SW corporations (Oracle, Qualcomm, Accucorp, FAir Isaac etc.) SDIC has a huge database, is well-connected with UCSD and will help us in promoting our events through their database of 4000 IT Managers, CTO's and developers. They will also let us manage their open SW interest group. So what is the hitch? We do not know how to get the sponsorship money. Please help if you have any idea. You'll have to find a sponsor, such as Sun or another company, who has money - OpenSolaris itself has no money. I suspect that you would need to put together a proposal outlining a) the costs involved, b) the direct financial benefits, c) the direct non-financial benefits, and c) the indirect benefits. (Just what I would expect, if I were a manager at Sun, with a budget). Once you have a proposal, either forward it to Product Management/Marketing, or your direct manager. (Whichever makes the most sense in your situation.) In corporate America, the route is generally via a chain of command. At tech firms, where there is a flatter org structure, you should be able to go directly to the benefactors. -brian ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
On 8/1/07, Brian Cameron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brian: First off, as I understand the Codecs are opensource. They also might be legal, but the status is not clear. There are a lot of issues here. Note that the GPL/LGPL (and many other free licenses) do not allow IP protected code to be included. This can be worked around with proper exceptions in the license, but you'll notice most free and open IP protected modules don't include such verbage. Therefore there are a lot of poorly licensed plugins out there that you can use but are not really under a valid license. While individuals can use them, this defeats the free/open source ethos. People who use them are like people who drive gas guzzling Hummers and have a I support the war in Iraq ribbon on the back. The Free software movement doesn't believe in software patents. If Mac OS and Windows, and Ubuntu can view these files, we should look at making a solaris desktop as easy to use. Currently desktop usage of Solaris is tiny. Large developers aren't really targetting SOlaris (just as most large developers aren't targeting ubuntu yet.) I think there are legal avenues for reasonable media support on Solaris, and these avenues will improve over time. Especially if people support companies like Fluendo by purchasing their plugins and letting them know there is a Solaris media market. I can understand paying for authoring tools. But playback is free on Linux, Windows and Mac.. (Pretty much all standards). I need video codecs, because tech companies are putting out technical videos, and there is no format standard. (You name it Flash, Mindows Media, Quicktime, Divx, etc). Developers are used to certain things from their platforms in this day and age. Multiple format video playback happens to be one of those things. Ubuntu, which is closer to Solaris in desktop market share than Windows and MacOSX have figured out a way to do it, we should at least investigate what and how they are doing it... (I will try to contribute more feedback in the install community, but I just started using Ubuntu so my knowledge is limited.). I think that the argument that Solaris should do something just because someone else does it is not a strong argument. Especially when there are legal considerations. I beg to differ. You have to wonder why they are doing it, and see if those reasons apply to you. e.g. Sun strongly embracing x86 commodity servers and OSes. Price/performance was a huge factor that couldn't be ignored. The fact of the matter is, for OpenSolaris to gain market share as a desktop (developer or otherwise), we can't lag in the usability area. The point wasn't really so much that the IP is unknown status, more that it outomatacilly goes and gets software and codecs painlessly. (Even asking you if you want to get ZYX pacakge, when it thinks you could use it.). Yes, I agree that Sun could use better package management tools that would let users easily download and install stuff that they want. I understand people at Sun are working on this. Brian Brian It's interesting how Ubuntu does it. They point you to external sources, that they don't vouch for the codecs. (They just make the install painless. IE: Unrecognized filetype/streamtype. Do you want me to look for one that work? If you say yes... and you are looking at a quicktime file, it points you to a non apple codec, which I am pretty sure is not kosher. It does give you a warning though.) Brian ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org mailto:opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org mailto: opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org mailto:opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Getting a Lucrative Sponsorship Funded
I suspect they are more likely to be found on the advocacy-discuss list.. (I don't know.) On 8/1/07, Fauzia Saeed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Proposal is done. Who are the right people in product marketing? Brian Gupta wrote: On 8/1/07, Fauzia Saeed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Where in Sun do I find someone to sponsor it? Alan Coopersmith wrote: Fauzia (foz) Saeed wrote: The Open Solaris Community in San Diego has an opportunity to fund the local SW council which is a respected non-profit organization with a membership 200 SW corporations (Oracle, Qualcomm, Accucorp, FAir Isaac etc.) SDIC has a huge database, is well-connected with UCSD and will help us in promoting our events through their database of 4000 IT Managers, CTO's and developers. They will also let us manage their open SW interest group. So what is the hitch? We do not know how to get the sponsorship money. Please help if you have any idea. You'll have to find a sponsor, such as Sun or another company, who has money - OpenSolaris itself has no money. I suspect that you would need to put together a proposal outlining a) the costs involved, b) the direct financial benefits, c) the direct non-financial benefits, and c) the indirect benefits. (Just what I would expect, if I were a manager at Sun, with a budget). Once you have a proposal, either forward it to Product Management/Marketing, or your direct manager. (Whichever makes the most sense in your situation.) In corporate America, the route is generally via a chain of command. At tech firms, where there is a flatter org structure, you should be able to go directly to the benefactors. -brian ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Getting a Lucrative Sponsorship Funded
I suspect you're right (or at least the people there are more likely to know who they are). -Alan Coopersmith- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering Brian Gupta wrote: I suspect they are more likely to be found on the advocacy-discuss list.. (I don't know.) On 8/1/07, *Fauzia Saeed* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Proposal is done. Who are the right people in product marketing? Brian Gupta wrote: On 8/1/07, *Fauzia Saeed* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Where in Sun do I find someone to sponsor it? Alan Coopersmith wrote: Fauzia (foz) Saeed wrote: The Open Solaris Community in San Diego has an opportunity to fund the local SW council which is a respected non-profit organization with a membership 200 SW corporations (Oracle, Qualcomm, Accucorp, FAir Isaac etc.) SDIC has a huge database, is well-connected with UCSD and will help us in promoting our events through their database of 4000 IT Managers, CTO's and developers. They will also let us manage their open SW interest group. So what is the hitch? We do not know how to get the sponsorship money. Please help if you have any idea. You'll have to find a sponsor, such as Sun or another company, who has money - OpenSolaris itself has no money. I suspect that you would need to put together a proposal outlining a) the costs involved, b) the direct financial benefits, c) the direct non-financial benefits, and c) the indirect benefits. (Just what I would expect, if I were a manager at Sun, with a budget). Once you have a proposal, either forward it to Product Management/Marketing, or your direct manager. (Whichever makes the most sense in your situation.) In corporate America, the route is generally via a chain of command. At tech firms, where there is a flatter org structure, you should be able to go directly to the benefactors. -brian ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [Resend]: Firefox 2.0.0.6 contrib. builds on Solaris10, Solaris8/9 are
Firefox 2.0.0.6 contributed builds on Solaris10, Solaris8/9 are now available on www.mozilla.com What's New == http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/2.0.0.6/releaseno tes/#whatsnew Downloading === http://www.mozilla.com (Click Free Download) http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/2.0.0.6/releaseno tes/#contributedbuilds http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/re leases/2.0.0.6/contrib/ Regards, Desktop Beijing Team ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org Thanks for the info. Never thought it would be so easy to install the Solaris version of Firefox. Also, since it installs as a separate program into /opt by default, there is a refreshing sense of freedom from concerns that the new version may (vis-a-vis Windows, Mac, Linux, what else?) destroy the existing installation, or, worse, mess up my entire system. Two very minor adjustments are recommended: First, you probably would want to either copy or do a soft link of your plugins from the existing installation: ln -s /usr/lib/firefox/plugins/* /opt/lib/firefox/plugins/ Second, you should change the new Firefox homepage to: file:///usr/share/doc/soldevex/html/developer_guide.html This is, IMHO, the best part of SXCE (in that it creates a trade address that Solaris is the best forum to become, or attain the sharpness as, a software professional). This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
Brian: First off, as I understand the Codecs are opensource. They also might be legal, but the status is not clear. There are a lot of issues here. Note that the GPL/LGPL (and many other free licenses) do not allow IP protected code to be included. This can be worked around with proper exceptions in the license, but you'll notice most free and open IP protected modules don't include such verbage. Therefore there are a lot of poorly licensed plugins out there that you can use but are not really under a valid license. While individuals can use them, this defeats the free/open source ethos. People who use them are like people who drive gas guzzling Hummers and have a I support the war in Iraq ribbon on the back. If Mac OS and Windows, and Ubuntu can view these files, we should look at making a solaris desktop as easy to use. Currently desktop usage of Solaris is tiny. Large developers aren't really targetting SOlaris (just as most large developers aren't targeting ubuntu yet.) I think there are legal avenues for reasonable media support on Solaris, and these avenues will improve over time. Especially if people support companies like Fluendo by purchasing their plugins and letting them know there is a Solaris media market. I think that the argument that Solaris should do something just because someone else does it is not a strong argument. Especially when there are legal considerations. The fact of the matter is, for OpenSolaris to gain market share as a desktop (developer or otherwise), we can't lag in the usability area. The point wasn't really so much that the IP is unknown status, more that it outomatacilly goes and gets software and codecs painlessly. (Even asking you if you want to get ZYX pacakge, when it thinks you could use it.). Yes, I agree that Sun could use better package management tools that would let users easily download and install stuff that they want. I understand people at Sun are working on this. Brian Brian It's interesting how Ubuntu does it. They point you to external sources, that they don't vouch for the codecs. (They just make the install painless. IE: Unrecognized filetype/streamtype. Do you want me to look for one that work? If you say yes... and you are looking at a quicktime file, it points you to a non apple codec, which I am pretty sure is not kosher. It does give you a warning though.) Brian ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org mailto:opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org mailto: opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org mailto:opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
Brian: The Free software movement doesn't believe in software patents. Untrue. It would be better to say that they do not support them. I'd be interested to hear how far the free software movment doesn't believe in software patents argument gets anyone in court. :) The GPL license is quite clear that IP protected code should not be included in GPL/LGPL licensed projects. I can understand paying for authoring tools. But playback is free on Linux, Windows and Mac.. (Pretty much all standards). With Windows and Mac, you pay for the licenses when you pay for the OS. Most free operating system distros do not ship IP protected media decoders or encoders. Any OS that ships them for free is very generous to be paying the license fee and not passing the charge to the end-user. The licensing fees for some popular formats are quite expensive. I have been working with Fluendo to make sure that plugins to enable media encoding and decoding are available to Solaris users for a modest fee. I hope that MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 plugins will be available there for Solaris in the not-too-distant future. I need video codecs, because tech companies are putting out technical videos, and there is no format standard. (You name it Flash, Mindows Media, Quicktime, Divx, etc). Developers are used to certain things from their platforms in this day and age. Multiple format video playback happens to be one of those things. Ubuntu, which is closer to Solaris in desktop market share than Windows and MacOSX have figured out a way to do it, we should at least investigate what and how they are doing it... (I will try to contribute more feedback in the install community, but I just started using Ubuntu so my knowledge is limited.). I agree that we need to figure out a way to do it. I also agree it is important. I also think we need to find the most appropriate legal way to do things. I'm aware Sun's legal department is working on this. I think that the argument that Solaris should do something just because someone else does it is not a strong argument. Especially when there are legal considerations. I beg to differ. You have to wonder why they are doing it, and see if those reasons apply to you. e.g. Sun strongly embracing x86 commodity servers and OSes. Price/performance was a huge factor that couldn't be ignored. Yes, Sun is currently working on Project Indiana to address many of these issues, including media related issues. Brian ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Oh dear operating systems help me please
i previously had a machine running windows vista and ubuntu 7.04 on one GRUB boot loader. Now when i installed solaris 10, it has a new grub boot loader and vista and ubuntu aren't there! i cant even acess the other partitions!!! omg please say it can be helped?? This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
On 31.07.2007 04:34, Kaiwai Gardiner wrote: On Mon, 2007-07-30 at 12:11 -0700, Edward McAuley wrote: Uh, let's see. Beautiful interface (as attractive as the Mac or Vista), intuitively laid out, ease of use, UNIX (like), open source...it's already here. You can download it or buy it. Suse 10.2 There's a difference between the versions (see http://drwetter.org/blog/rpms.Suse-10.2.internet-boxed.diff.html) Please look at this latest version, it is stunning. The beautifully designed and intuitive layout of its desktop is very difficult to communicate until you spin it up and use it for a while. Unless you're referring to the admin tool yast2 -- which will change in 10.3 and has already in SLES10 SP1 -- that's a matter of the GUI, Gnome or KDE. KDE is because of historical reasons better integrated in the Suse Desktop. I've used SuSE 10.2 - if you're happy to avoid the bugs that you can fly a 747 through. Beta quality compilers, drivers and libraries. Crappy KDE/OpenOffice.org integration (specifically kslaves/openoffice.org) - its horrific - ship first, hide bugs hopeing they won't get found. Sorry, but your report lacks substance. I've reviewed Suse since an eternity (http://drwetter.org/blog/opensuse-10.2_criticism.html, http://drwetter.org/suse10.1/report.suse-10.1.html, printed versions until Suse 8.X) and I am using it almost on a daily basis. I can't see the problems you're referring to. The thing which is real crap in 10.2 is ZMD which will disappear in 10.3 . I would just try to be fair, there are on the Solaris desktop side a lot of things -- just read this thread -- which could need an improvement. It doesn't help OpenSolaris in any way if you b*tch about a competitor. Linux distributors like Suse and Fedora use their community distributions with a release cycle of every six months for a broad test of their new features which eventually find their way into either the kernel or other applications, but certainly into their commercial counterparts. Sun will do the very same. Sometimes things break if you're choose a six months cycle where basically every packet is changing. Debian, Ubuntu LTS have a different approach, so does commerical Solaris. Lord knows I don't want to see Solaris turn into a dumping site for bad code. You mean really Solaris? In any case: Suse, Indiana, *BSD, any community distribution with whatsoever-flavor you always can file bug reports or resolve problems by yourself and commit those changes back. You have the code. Cheers, Dirk -- Dirk Wetter @ Dr. Wetter IT-Consulting http://drwetter.org Beratung IT-Sicherheit + Open Source Key fingerprint = 2AD6 BE0F 9863 C82D 21B3 64E5 C967 34D8 11B7 C62F - Found core file older than 7 days: /usr/share/man/man5/core.5.gz ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
On Aug 1, 2007, at 1:44 PM, Brian Gupta wrote: If Mac OS and Windows, and Ubuntu can view these files, we should look at making a solaris desktop as easy to use. Currently desktop usage of Solaris is tiny. Large developers aren't really targetting SOlaris (just as most large developers aren't targeting ubuntu yet.) I think there are legal avenues for reasonable media support on Solaris, and these avenues will improve over time. Especially if people support companies like Fluendo by purchasing their plugins and letting them know there is a Solaris media market. I can understand paying for authoring tools. But playback is free on Linux, Windows and Mac.. (Pretty much all standards). I need video codecs, because tech companies are putting out technical videos, and there is no format standard. (You name it Flash, Mindows Media, Quicktime, Divx, etc). Developers are used to certain things from their platforms in this day and age. Multiple format video playback happens to be one of those things. Ubuntu, which is closer to Solaris in desktop market share than Windows and MacOSX have figured out a way to do it, we should at least investigate what and how they are doing it... (I will try to contribute more feedback in the install community, but I just started using Ubuntu so my knowledge is limited.). Playback is free on Windows and Mac OS because Microsoft and Apple licensed the codecs from their respective owners. Playback is free on Linux only because the Linux movement doesn't care much about the IP Laws in the US (understandably) and thus leaves the decision of can I use these codecs legally up to the user (which most users, even in the US just don't bother with and go on using things that are against US law). You won't see Sun including code that it doesn't have a legal right to include. By extension, neither should OpenSolaris. Whether or not it makes Solaris (open or otherwise) seem lacking misses the point, Sun isn't about to start breaking the law and neither should OpenSolaris. Keep in mind, what's legal in one country isn't necessarily legal in all countries. With a globally used OS like OpenSolaris you have to cater to the lowest common denominator. Now if someone wants to pony up some money to license the various non- free codecs that the community would like to see, I'm certain the community (and Sun) would be happy to accept it. Cheers, -- Glenn ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
I thought I read somewhere (can't find the source) that the market for PC games is shrinking and the market for console games is growing (Wii/PS3/Xbox 360). PC gaming makes much less money than console gaming right now, because of the aforementioned advantages to the standardized console platform. What I was getting at is that there is room for game development and game playing to expand into the Solaris and Linux space. Red Hat makes money from selling free stuff, so OpenGL and game development support-providing companies could make money too. Maybe a coalition of groups and companies could push OpenGL back into the spotlight, which then pushes gaming closer to Linux and Solaris. Video drivers are moving closer to being open source already. And the other thing I was getting at is that the stable platform that is Solaris (as opposed to Linux) naturally makes for a better game development platform than Linux and maybe even Windows. Plus an open source 3d coalition would have no motivation to pull a Vista + DirectX 10 and force people to upgrade to something unnecessarily. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
On 8/1/07, MC [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I thought I read somewhere (can't find the source) that the market for PC games is shrinking and the market for console games is growing (Wii/PS3/Xbox 360). PC gaming makes much less money than console gaming right now, because of the aforementioned advantages to the standardized console platform. What I was getting at is that there is room for game development and game playing to expand into the Solaris and Linux space. Red Hat makes money from selling free stuff, so OpenGL and game development support-providing companies could make money too. Maybe a coalition of groups and companies could push OpenGL back into the spotlight, which then pushes gaming closer to Linux and Solaris. Video drivers are moving closer to being open source already. And the other thing I was getting at is that the stable platform that is Solaris (as opposed to Linux) naturally makes for a better game development platform than Linux and maybe even Windows. Plus an open source 3d coalition would have no motivation to pull a Vista + DirectX 10 and force people to upgrade to something unnecessarily. Keep in mind that if you are tracking sales records. Blizzard just made an all time sales record with a PC based game (The sequel to World of Warcraft). ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Oh dear operating systems help me please
i previously had a machine running windows vista and ubuntu 7.04 on one GRUB boot loader. Now when i installed solaris 10, it has a new grub boot loader and vista and ubuntu aren't there! i cant even acess the other partitions!!! omg please say it can be helped?? let's just see what other partitions you have there. Can you boot the box up until you see GRUB and then hit ESC to stop the boot process. Then type c to get to a command line. then we need to figure out what partitions are available because if they were there before then they are still there now. unless you repartitioned the disk ... oh dear .. then you re in trouble but let's hope for the best can you get to GRUB command line mode ? if so then maybe this can help : http://www.mepis.org/docs/en/index.php/GRUB_from_command_line Dennis ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
Keep in mind that if you are tracking sales records. Blizzard just made an all time sales record with a PC based game (The sequel to World of Warcraft). I certainly keep that in mind, but it doesn't affect what I just said :) On the MMORPG front, the same success could come on a console with VOIP and a thumbboard on the controller. Most of the world doesn't realize it yet, but every BlackBerry user knows how effective a thumb keyboard is for communication. Microsoft knows too: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gamerscore/sets/72157600058725367/ More on the OS and why Solaris has the technology to beat Windows as a game and other application development platform: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=14918 Alex St. John believes that Vista is an unintelligent evolution of Windows that made life harder for developers. More: [i]A “smart” use of OS bloat would be to carve Windows down to the simplest, cleanest, secure core possible and let applications carry their own copies and correct versions of any OS components they rely on with them. Each application would be trusted to dynamically update itself as needed within its own OS sandbox. The result would be, fast boot times, leaner use of RAM and CPU resources, better backwards compatibility and highly simple and reliable per application security at the cost of a fuller hard drive. Vista's security model is highly obstructive and intrusive to gaming, not to mention insecure! Modern Intel and AMD chips are extraordinarily powerful virtualization engines. Microsoft could easily have run a full version of Windows XP for every application completely isolated from the rest of the system or every other virtualized OS instance. It would have been 100 percent compatible with all existing software, games and video drivers, totally secure and easy for consumers to transition from. Instead they made some bizarre convoluted security mess with half backed backwards compatibility and forced it on the entire market simultaneously. Crazy.. I think they've totally lost it.[/i] This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
On Aug 1, 2007, at 3:02 PM, Brian Gupta wrote: On 8/1/07, MC [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I thought I read somewhere (can't find the source) that the market for PC games is shrinking and the market for console games is growing (Wii/PS3/Xbox 360). PC gaming makes much less money than console gaming right now, because of the aforementioned advantages to the standardized console platform. What I was getting at is that there is room for game development and game playing to expand into the Solaris and Linux space. Red Hat makes money from selling free stuff, so OpenGL and game development support-providing companies could make money too. Maybe a coalition of groups and companies could push OpenGL back into the spotlight, which then pushes gaming closer to Linux and Solaris. Video drivers are moving closer to being open source already. And the other thing I was getting at is that the stable platform that is Solaris (as opposed to Linux) naturally makes for a better game development platform than Linux and maybe even Windows. Plus an open source 3d coalition would have no motivation to pull a Vista + DirectX 10 and force people to upgrade to something unnecessarily. Keep in mind that if you are tracking sales records. Blizzard just made an all time sales record with a PC based game (The sequel to World of Warcraft). Yup, that's what the article I read a month or so stated. MMORPGs like WoW are the most successful of the PC games anymore. Probably because of the way you play them. It'd be hard(er) to do on a console. Damn, I need to find that article again. -john ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
On 8/1/07, John Martinez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 1, 2007, at 3:02 PM, Brian Gupta wrote: On 8/1/07, MC [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I thought I read somewhere (can't find the source) that the market for PC games is shrinking and the market for console games is growing (Wii/PS3/Xbox 360). PC gaming makes much less money than console gaming right now, because of the aforementioned advantages to the standardized console platform. What I was getting at is that there is room for game development and game playing to expand into the Solaris and Linux space. Red Hat makes money from selling free stuff, so OpenGL and game development support-providing companies could make money too. Maybe a coalition of groups and companies could push OpenGL back into the spotlight, which then pushes gaming closer to Linux and Solaris. Video drivers are moving closer to being open source already. And the other thing I was getting at is that the stable platform that is Solaris (as opposed to Linux) naturally makes for a better game development platform than Linux and maybe even Windows. Plus an open source 3d coalition would have no motivation to pull a Vista + DirectX 10 and force people to upgrade to something unnecessarily. Keep in mind that if you are tracking sales records. Blizzard just made an all time sales record with a PC based game (The sequel to World of Warcraft). Yup, that's what the article I read a month or so stated. MMORPGs like WoW are the most successful of the PC games anymore. Probably because of the way you play them. It'd be hard(er) to do on a console. Damn, I need to find that article again. -john There was a developer lurker in the games-discuss list that said if a handful of Solaris users committed to subscribing, they would maintain an OpenSolaris port: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=135658#135658 -Brian ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
Well, Yup, that's what the article I read a month or so stated. MMORPGs like WoW are the most successful of the PC games anymore. Probably because of the way you play them. It'd be hard(er) to do on a console. Damn, I need to find that article again. Of course they are - not only can you play a game, you get to interact with other people. * if you're a psychopath you can LEGALLY kill them (within reason) * if you enjoy using the game as a chat room you can * if you like interesting quests, you can probably find them * if you like being part of a community, you can be * interested in politics, become leader of some clan/group without having to win a Presidential nomination Single person games can only go so far. Eventually, it's the human interaction that matters... DSL ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 16:44:48 -0400, you wrote: The Free software movement doesn't believe in software patents. Not true. The free software movement believes that software patents are bad for a variety of reasons, but still acknowledges that (at least in the US) they are legally valid. It is for this reason that Red Hat has software patents, see http://www.redhat.com/legal/patent_policy.html As such you will find most developers of software that is known to be risky (ie. video codecs) are outside of the US. I can understand paying for authoring tools. But playback is free on Linux, Playback is free on Linux because it is developed outside of the US, and so far the patent holders have not been able to extend their reach. Windows and Mac.. (Pretty much all standards). I need video codecs, because tech companies are putting out technical videos, and there is no format standard. (You name it Flash, Mindows Media, Quicktime, Divx, etc). Developers are used to certain things from their platforms in this day and age. Multiple format video playback happens to be one of those things. Ubuntu, which is closer to Solaris in desktop market share than Windows and MacOSX have figured out a way to do it, we should at least investigate what Ubuntu, and more importantly Canonical (the company behind Ubuntu) are NOT American. They are based in Europe, which means so far they can get away with doing things that an American based company cannot. Red Hat has had their lawyers look into this issue with regards to the Fedora Project and it is quite clear that not only can Red Hat and/or Fedora not include this questionable software in their distributions but even linking to it could cause legal problems in the US. This would also apply to Sun given that they are also an American company. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [Resend]: Firefox 2.0.0.6 contrib. builds on Solaris10, Solaris8/9 are
Two very minor adjustments are recommended: First, you probably would want to either copy or do a soft link of your plugins from the existing installation: ln -s /usr/lib/firefox/plugins/* /opt/lib/firefox/plugins/ In case someone is allergic to command lines, you can always use Nautilus to graphically copy or link (Make link - Cut - Paste) the .so files from the first source directory ( /usr/lib/firefox/plugins/ ) to the destination directory ( /opt/lib/firefox/plugins/ ) . This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Two noob questions (kernel/filesystem)
On Tue, 2007-07-31 at 09:53 -0700, Orvar Korvar wrote: Well, I am not going to tune the kernel, but I was just wondering. Ok, Solaris has several different tunable schedulers, whereas Linux has one. Linux scheduler is aimed at server use, presumably solaris kernel is also. I wonder, is Solaris snappier than Linux, then? There are complaints on Linux scheduler. In the past Solaris used to have complaints about responsiveness (Solaris 9) on x86, but now things have improved. As for Linux scheduler its been recently been replaced with a scheduler which will apparently allow it to be tuned for desktop or server jobs. Matthew ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
Well Matthew, you seem like a thoughtful guy. Here's my take: SuSE Linux installed perfectly on this HP dv4217cl (dv4000) notebook, requiring only that I install an RPM for the wireless network card that was supplied on the non-oss cd. It works flawlessly, after two days of fairly intense use. I'll be happy to report back over the next couple of weeks, if you like. No problems with CD-ROMS or anything else. It has a beautiful and very intuitive user interface and I like it. Which desktop are you running? I had one OpenOffice crash the second time I executed Writer, but in fairness, it recovered within about 2 seconds and I haven't had the problem since. The drivers have worked flawlessly on all of my SuSE installations, so maybe I am not using the same hardware you are deploying; but my H/W is pretty diverse and I am not experiencing the problems you've mentioned with 10.2. I've used SuSE way back when it was SuSE and came in a big box set; its a long soap opera unfortunately, and with each release, 5 steps forward and 3 steps back. Great new features with great new bugs. If one wants compilers, that's fine. There are about a go-zillion sources for free and/or commercial compilers. One may take aim at some and pull the trigger. My point is about the base system: it works and it is intuitive. It works for you but when it comes to stability I've found it lacking. When I installed FreeBSD 6.2 on this notebook, the installation was excellent! The OS worked fine, and while having FreeBSD on my notebook was kind of fun (in a geek way...you know how it is), its functionality is not well integrated enough for common daily use; that's okay because it is not intended for common, daily use, just as Solaris is not intended for common use -though FreeBSD did pretty well. I do know I could get it to work much better, if I took the time, but I did not like its style of interaction, on a notebook. I have it running on a couple of other boxes, so I continue to work with it on those boxes. But make no mistake about it, FreeBSD worked flawlessly and its install (text based) was quite aggressive in making the proper suggestions and selections (which is a refreshing change for FreeBSD). And, even with its becoming better and more user friendly, I doubt anyone would say that it is now, somehow, less robust. So, I gave Solaris 10 (11/06) a shot. Solaris barfed all over me; like a girlfriend you love but who just can't get it together, it wouldn't get past the initial display probe and gave me an unintelligible (read bank) GUI screen. So it was a text based install, which I don't mind, as with FreeBSD, it was like the good old days! So I fired up the games PacMan and Tetris on a crappy Windows 3.1 box and drank a New York Seltzer (Root Beer, of course) and watched Back to the Future -which also seems oddly antiquated these days (go figure), while it installed. Then however, I began experiencing other issues with Solaris on this notebook, that were not trivial, so I tossed Solaris, Matthew, it just didn't work. Now, I like Solaris and I run it on several boxes but the mission of the notebook (in keeping with the mission of the IBM notebook to which you refer) is to work, so I won't be using it as a lab rat (though if I had another, additional notebook, that's exactly what I'd do). I'd give Solaris another run but this SuSE interface is so good, I don't know what my reasoning would have to be, in order to waste my time on that pursuit, again. And, I am sure I do not understand the logic in your point, from the outset. Is your point that an OS that works flawlessly on some systems but not on others, is inferior? If that's your point, you'll need to look at Solaris with the same prejudice you're using when looking at SuSE. Or, are you just defending the Solaris turf? Because I am a huge fan of Solaris, but no matter how many times I repeated my undying affection during the installation, it did not work on this notebook, for more significant reasons than a failure to recognize a CD Writer. I think that is the point of this whole thread, right? People are hoping to make a more usable Solaris, in order to gain a broader install base, gaining all of the additional support attention that comes with that added user base. Most importantly, we'll have to part company on the broad statement regarding code. First I reject the notion that SuSE is a dumping ground for code. Second, I do not believe that Solaris needs to become a dumping ground for code, merely to become usable across a broader install base. FreeBSD has already proved that line of thinking to be incorrect. Oh, and remember to drop the e before adding the ing. Jeez, talk about basic coding errors... :-) I'm a management kinda guy - I outsource all that kinda stuff ;-) As for your Solaris experience - if you'er running a desktop, grab a copy of SXDE or SXCE
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
On Tue, 2007-07-31 at 10:30 -0700, Christopher Mahan wrote: --- Kaiwai Gardiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But at the same time, you need managers who are confident about what they're saying. I've seen webcasts in the past, who, bless their cotton socks, knew what they were talking about but lacked confidence and presence when delivering the message of the company. It came accross as being unsure and lacking confidence in the message being put out there. What you need are spokespeople who can get up, hold the audience on every word being spoken, the confidence and charasma to put out a vision and bring the industry and customers with you to reading that point. An attitude which oozes confidence in the future of the company and the products being put out there on the market. Matthew There's an impedance issue. The managers don't know as much as the engineers, and the CIOs won't listen to the engineers. (they don't here) So it the CIOs want to really know the true nitty-gritty, they have to learn to listen to engineers. I will also say that the smart ones do. As far as confidence: Sun Management should have to attend the OpenSolaris boot camp and install OpenSolaris given a CD or DVD, a system, and instructions. That'll really clear a few things about their touting the World's Most Advanced Operating System. Maybe they seem to lack confidence because they do lack confidence... I think that given the resources at hand, Sun has done a good job of advertising OpenSolaris. At least the fud is minimal. Remind me of what I said over 2 years ago - every manager needs to be given a copy of Solaris and told to install it on their home computer - only then do they realise just how much much resources actually need to be injected into it. The problem is that Sun in the past just keeps going for the 'high end niche' eventually that niche will become so small it stops existing - SGI is finding out that the hard way - hopeing to slash and burn costs whilst ignoring it is the uniqueness which bring customers over, not necessarily who can build the cheaper widget. As for confidence, I can BS confidence - it takes practice and flexible morals, but it is possible :-) Matthew ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So... when is Sun going to start offering SXCE/SXDE support contracts?
I recall that there is a degree of developer support around SXDE which is around developer tools as distinct from production support. maybe even that they were offering a certain amount for free... This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 04:19 -0700, Alan DuBoff wrote: On Mon, 30 Jul 2007, James Carlson wrote: I think I'm one of the command-line geeks this message refers to somewhat indirectly. My idea of a GUI is still twm with xterms and emacs windows, and I wouldn't really want to have it any other way. Just the same, I think having an environment available that can hide all of that away and that is robust enough that it's able to do so when things are going wrong would be great. I just suspect that it's far harder (read: expensive) to make that work in any reliable way than most would suppose. This type of open thinking is good, because there's not a lot of Jim Carlsons in the world. If we want to grow Solaris, we need to focus on areas which can allow more users to use Solaris seamlessly. This is exactly what our CEO has pointed out with Ubunto, and after last weeks allhands, I installed Ubunto on one of my computers. I honestly don't see Solaris as being too much different, albeit where Ubuntu has a leg up is in getting the bits on your computer, and updating them. First, during the install I selected some type of Guided partition/resize, thinking it would guide me through using fdisk or equivilant...bzzzt, wrong answer, and turned the computer off as it started to repartition the disk with whatever values were on a slider, which one was evidentally supposed to adjust before continuing. Next time around I did a manual install, and set the disk as I wanted (and no, I didn't loose any of the data on the computer). So, I get it installed, all the hardware was detected, and all is running, but on DHCP, not how I wanted it configured, but running none the less. So, one of the reasons I did want to install Ubuntu is that I have an opensource library which one of the Ubuntu developers wants to putback to Debian, and I am updating the name to prevent name collision with another library. Ah, but Ubunto doesn't install automake/autoconf/libtool by default, it's more user oriented. This is important, because I am similar to you in the regard that I just want this command tool that I need to use, and in this case I don't care about a GUI, but searching through the update GUI, I can't find any of the tools to save my life. Lucky for me, I am pretty familiar with Debian, which Ubuntu is based on, and can open a terminal, edit my sources.lst, do an apt-get update, and pull the packages down I wanted...including KDE/Kubuntu, and other stuff...but those pieces are not available through the default GUIs, AFAICT, with a default install. It's always kewl to see a large bundle like KDE pulling down 297 packages to install all it's glory... From a developer perspective, Ubuntu is no better than Solaris, IMO. Because even though it does get bits on the computer better, the bits are focused for a simpleton. Yes, I think we do need to attract these simpletons...so we have a double edge sword of adoption/attraction. I do wonder why we need to have a different GNOME desktop? Well, I know why we do it (i.e., JDS), but I'm not sure why we should. It only diverges us from the mainstream, and makes things different. Seems better to leverage the mainstream GNOME project to me, and be the same, the Ubuntu uses a stock GNOME desktop, AFAICT. Would be nice to see our desktop folks working on implementing solutions for out environment, rather than adding lipstick to the pig, for instance...wouldn't it be nice to grab a context menu and be able to get the information for zfs list? Well, for you it wouldn't, but for me it might. It confuses me that zfs has been out for about a year and a half and we don't see our desktop folks doing that type of simple integration. Being able to take snapshots, list information on zfs filesystems, or getting the status of a zpool, those are all things that should be available for the user. OTOH, we're making quite a bit of progress, we even have some wifi solutions in place, a modern X server, native OpenGL drivers for nvidia, and some basic power management, acceptable audio, much better x86 support with Sun finally selling x86 based systems. This is quite a bit better than we were a couple years ago, when S10 was released. Unfortunately our power play is zfs, and we don't have the abiltiy to boot and/or configure the system for it at install time. This will need to be transparent to the user, and to the user there should be little if any difference than using ufs, fat, ext2/3, gasp reiserfs, or other. Long story short, we need to retain the Jim Carlson users of the community, and be able to attract more of them, but at the same time we need to attract the simpletons to really drive adoption. This will take some jugglin', IMO, to keep all happy. One could argue that Cube at the best chance - for example, I remember back when I was at an ISP a customer bought a
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
On Tue, 2007-07-31 at 23:33 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: Kaiwai: I'm surprised that Sun can't get access to those windows codecs under the agreement which Sun and Microsoft signed. I don't think access to the codecs is the problem. Paying the royalties required to distribute the IP is more likely the issue. Especially when only a percentage of Solaris users use it as a desktop and have such media needs. Only a small percentage use x86 - should Sun throw in the towel as well? Don't look at 'current' look at 'potential' - if you constantly look at current, you'll never grow your user base because you're constantly only delivering what your current user base wants rather than what your potential user base needs to make that shift to your product(s). Matthew ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
This is really bad. Firefox + Xserver will soon consume 1.3 GB together and a 1 GB system will start excessive paging. Is this really needed? What is ridiculous is that one needs 1GB of RAM for a graphical installation. That is really unacceptable, and it's a self-afflicted slap in the face of Solaris engineering. It speaks more about some twitt deciding to use Java when it was completely unnecessary. Java is great, but it has a time and a place - a resource constrained situation like a setup is no place for something whose memory consumption expands at a faster rate than my waist line. Matthew ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Drivers for ATI X1900
On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 02:01 -0600, Jon Trulson wrote: On Mon, 30 Jul 2007, Alan Coopersmith wrote: ken mays wrote: http://ati.amd.com/products/catalyst/linux.html#2 We also actively assist developers in the Open Source community with their work, so if you absolutely require an open source driver for your graphics card, we can recommend using drivers from the DRI project, Utah-GLX project, or others. Nice marketing spin, but ATI hasn't been actively assisting the open source community for quite a while. They haven't exactly been supporting closed-source developers either... I've always wondered what the performance of Intel GPU's would be like if they were plonked on a board with dedicated high speed memory like a traditional video card. Matthew ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 00:01 +0100, Alan Burlison wrote: Kaiwai Gardiner wrote: Hardware - ATI drivers anyone? drivers for webcams, flash card readers, sound cards out of the box etc. etc. again, 2 years of opensolaris, even more since Solaris x86 support came back and there are still major issues. What can the opensolaris community do? nothing, it has no money. What can Sun do? it has $4billion, you can do alot with $4billion. Lack of money doesn't seem to have stopped the Linux community. This is an open source community, if there are improvements to OpenSolaris that you'd like to see, please feel free to work on them. But I'm a potential customer who is interested in licencing Solaris - for Sun its in their interest to deliver one piddle function (firmware upload for webcams) to win a customer (or potentially customers) over along with developers. Matthew ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So... when is Sun going to start offering SXCE/SXDE support contracts?
I recall that there is a degree of developer support around SXDE which is around developer tools as distinct from production support. maybe even that they were offering a certain amount for free... This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 01:10 -0700, Artem Kachitchkine wrote: You don't like reading documentation, or what? What do you think, that development and/or engineering is a partisan, guerilla coding process? Sun documentation has always been one of the biggest incentives to take and implement Sun technology. What good is an awesome technology that there is just no documentation for? And, I have to ask myself how awesome is it really if the documentation is nonexistant, boils down to a couple of READMEs or HOWTOs, or just plain sucks. Awesome products start with (often just as awesome) documentation. Some of your heroes would tell you, perhaps self-indulgently, if anything, that code is documentation. Never underestimate the power of power. *shrugs* depends; documentation and code should be written at the same time. Reminds me of my programming teacher *shudder* - hell hath no fury as her scorn for those who didn't follow the 'rules' of good programming practices. Matthew ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 12:03 +0200, Joerg Schilling wrote: UNIX admin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, I gave Solaris 10 (11/06) a shot. Solaris barfed all over me; like a girlfriend you love but who just can't get it together, it wouldn't get past the initial display probe and gave me an unintelligible (read blank) GUI screen. Welcome to the club! I've had problems with Solaris 10 and my laptop as well. For starters, Solaris 10 1/06 (back when it came out), just plain busted with some bizzare RAM error message flooding my screen. I knew my RAM chips were good because Windows XP Home ran just fine on this laptop, and so did SchilliX, the very first OpenSolaris distro. You tried and threw up your hands in the air. I didn't, because it pissed me off to high heavens. My impression is that a current Nevada build with Gnome desktop will not work decently if it has less than 2 GB of RAM. This is really bad. Firefox + Xserver will soon consume 1.3 GB together and a 1 GB system will start excessive paging. Is this really needed? Pardon? I'm sitting here with a laptop, 1gig, Nvidia graphics card etc. and certainly don't see it any less responsive than Windows Vista Business (which came preloaded), Fedora 7 or SLED 10 SP1. Matthew ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
The problem is that Sun in the past just keeps going for the 'high end niche' eventually that niche will become so small it stops existing - SGI is finding out that the hard way - hopeing to slash and burn costs whilst ignoring it is the uniqueness which bring customers over, not necessarily who can build the cheaper widget I beg to differ, as a Sun customer we are going commodity all the way. We haven't bought an Enterprise system since the 3800. Currently the majority of the Machines we are deploying are x4200s and T2000s. We are also investigating VMWare ESX running Solaris in a big way. (I wonder if there is room for a vmware community group on opensolaris.org) -Brian ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Run Vb Application Sun Solaris 10
On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 05:53 -0700, sarit saini wrote: Good Evening Everybody, I am a s/w engineer, Currently I am Facing a very critical problem, if Someebody have any suggestion related to my problem then post ur suggestion. [b]Problem : I want to Run Vb Application and MS Access as a backend on Sun Solaris 10. I want to make solaris system is operating system and other window based system Access Application and database from that Solaris System.[/b] Thanks Regards Sarit Saini Check out Wine and Mono - Mono which has some level of vb.net support - I think it is currently beta and lacking features. With that being said, you might wish to talk to Mainsoft which creates Windows - UNIX migration software. Matthew ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 21:28 -0400, Brian Gupta wrote: The problem is that Sun in the past just keeps going for the 'high end niche' eventually that niche will become so small it stops existing - SGI is finding out that the hard way - hopeing to slash and burn costs whilst ignoring it is the uniqueness which bring customers over, not necessarily who can build the cheaper widget I beg to differ, as a Sun customer we are going commodity all the way. We haven't bought an Enterprise system since the 3800. Currently the majority of the Machines we are deploying are x4200s and T2000s. We are also investigating VMWare ESX running Solaris in a big way. (I wonder if there is room for a vmware community group on opensolaris.org) But at the same time, it isn't purely 'dollars' it is however, about dollars, stability, reliability, security, expandability etc. etc. The point I'm getting at is people who crap on about oh, Sun doesn't focus on - well, if Sun doesn't focus on that, then they're saying they don't want to grow. I've yet to hear of a company who is happy to stay where they are, their profit remain static and happy that marketshare is decreasing. Simply pushing higher and higher up the requirements doesn't help growth - that is why Sun has x86 machines, its all about volume, all about increasing customer base - part of that is creating a platform so that there is an end to end platform, from desktop to server to midframe - standardise on equipment all from one vendor and use that as leverage to get lower prices. Matthew ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 13:34 -0700, John Martinez wrote: On Aug 1, 2007, at 1:14 PM, MC wrote: On games, I'm not sure everyone knows this, so I'll point it out. Games are a killer app for PCs, and they have been for years. (They make people buy computers.) There is a lot of money in this stuff, but it takes a lot of money to get right. Microsoft hasn't been steering the PC gaming ship as well as it could be, so there is room for improvement there. Games for Windows is a new move of theirs to bring more standardization into PC gaming. Standardization is gd. Game consoles are just extra computers for the home, but they are very successful because of the standardization they bring. In theory they make it easier to develop games and harder to pirate games. The standardization results in a better experience for the gamer and the game developer and the hardware developer. The gamer gets better games, the game developer saves time and money, and the hardware developer makes more money. In theory, anyway! The downside is that the gamer has just paid more money. I thought I read somewhere (can't find the source) that the market for PC games is shrinking and the market for console games is growing (Wii/PS3/Xbox 360). The only exception being MMORPGs like WoW. The state of gaming is sad on the second largest desktop, Mac OS X, so I would suspect that Linux and Solaris would fall way down the list. But I do agree with you, games would definitely attract a different crowd than Solaris is used to, in a positive way. Apart from a few noisy, cpu over clocking, gpu tweaking, windows registry hacking, caffeine addicted gamers - most people don't actually care about games. I can assure most people here, when it comes to migration, the questions I get asked from people have to do with whether they can get their favourite applications on the new operating system - not whether they can 'get their game on' (what ever the hell that means). Matthew ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 13:14 -0700, MC wrote: On games, I'm not sure everyone knows this, so I'll point it out. Games are a killer app for PCs, and they have been for years. (They make people buy computers.) There is a lot of money in this stuff, but it takes a lot of money to get right. Microsoft hasn't been steering the PC gaming ship as well as it could be, so there is room for improvement there. Games for Windows is a new move of theirs to bring more standardization into PC gaming. Standardization is gd. Game consoles are just extra computers for the home, but they are very successful because of the standardization they bring. In theory they make it easier to develop games and harder to pirate games. The standardization results in a better experience for the gamer and the game developer and the hardware developer. The gamer gets better games, the game developer saves time and money, and the hardware developer makes more money. In theory, anyway! The downside is that the gamer has just paid more money. That brings us back to Solaris and its standardization. Standardization is gd! True, but with games on consoles it makes the need to have games on Solaris a non-issue. The focus should be on getting those applications which Linux lack and end users want. If worse case scenario there is no native version, Wine will run it - too bad 0.9.42 fails to compile on Solaris :-( I wish the wine developers would realise the world doesn't revolve around Linux :-( Matthew ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
Alan DuBoff wrote: [...] So, one of the reasons I did want to install Ubuntu is that I have an opensource library which one of the Ubuntu developers wants to putback to Debian, and I am updating the name to prevent name collision with another library. Ah, but Ubunto doesn't install automake/autoconf/libtool by default, it's more user oriented. This is important, because I am similar to you in the regard that I just want this command tool that I need to use, and in this case I don't care about a GUI, but searching through the update GUI, I can't find any of the tools to save my life. Lucky for me, I am pretty familiar with Debian, which Ubuntu is based on, and can open a terminal, edit my sources.lst, do an apt-get update, and pull the packages down I wanted...including KDE/Kubuntu, and other stuff...but those pieces are not available through the default GUIs, AFAICT, with a default install. It's always kewl to see a large bundle like KDE pulling down 297 packages to install all it's glory... I have also found the default sources.list in Ubuntu to be too limited. You need to download and install Automatix2 separately to get a juicy sources.list. This IMHO shouldn't have been the case. Regards, Moinak. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana Wish List
On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 18:55 +0100, Darren J Moffat wrote: Orvar Korvar wrote: For a Windows user, these things are essential for a successfull switch: -chat, msn Pidgin, nee GAIM. -web cam Works to some extent already with Ekiga. True, but many new cameras are UVC compliant but require firmware to be uploaded to it before it can operate using the generic UVC driver. -photoshop-esque program. GIMP - already in Solaris Express. GIMP 2.4 apparently is more 'photoshop like' - IIRC Photoshop 7 works with wine. -file sharing; bittorrent and DC++. Important. bittorrent and Azurus both work just fine. -office OpenOffice.org or its peer StarOffice. -an easy internet setup (maybe wireless) See the NWAM project on opensolaris.org, it doesn't get much easier than automagic :-) Small problem - if you change your wireless key on the router NWAM fails to come back to say that the password has failed and requires re-entering it. Matthew ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana Wish List
On Tue, 2007-07-31 at 16:56 -0700, Ché Kristo wrote: I don't think you will be disappointed. In fact most of the things you refer to are already in Solaris Express. I Run Solaris Express DE on my laptop and Ultra 20 and can't complain about either. Things that you have mentioned such as music and chat work out of the box, I get my media codecs from fluendo and I can fault it for my needs. I'm kinda concerned about Fluendo given a lack of further development especially in the case of encoding software - I question whether they'e actually going to stay around for the long term. Matthew ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
On 8/2/07, Glenn Lagasse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Playback is free on Windows and Mac OS because Microsoft and Apple licensed the codecs from their respective owners. Playback is free on Linux only because the Linux movement doesn't care much about the IP Laws in the US (understandably) and thus leaves the decision of can I use these codecs legally up to the user (which most users, even in the US just don't bother with and go on using things that are against US law). You won't see Sun including code that it doesn't have a legal right to include. Hi, I'd just like to point out that we get out of the box support to play mp3 on solaris express.. real player included has no problems. Noting that sun somehow obtained permission to of redistributing real player, could this also be included in Indiana? Anil ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
On Wed, 1 Aug 2007, Moinak Ghosh wrote: I have also found the default sources.list in Ubuntu to be too limited. You need to download and install Automatix2 separately to get a juicy sources.list. This IMHO shouldn't have been the case. Agreed. I 'spose by stripping everything down it's easier for them to maintain the distribution, for the folks it is intended to be for. I don't think I am that person, but they are out there.;-) -- Alan DuBoff - Solaris x86 IHV/OEM Group ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Oh dear operating systems help me please
Hey, On 8/2/07, Luke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i previously had a machine running windows vista and ubuntu 7.04 on one GRUB boot loader. Now when i installed solaris 10, it has a new grub boot loader and vista and ubuntu aren't there! i cant even acess the other partitions!!! omg please say it can be helped?? Hmm.. if you installed solaris on a new partition, then all the old data is safe. you will only have to modify menu.lst (in solaris). To make sure all your data is safe, boot up belenix from a live CD. Belenix can mount ntfs and ext3 (theres a utility on the desktop).. just browse through and see if all the info is safe. Tehn open the menu.lst found in the ubuntu partition and copy all the lines starting from the first 'title' entry, and append into the menu.lst that is found in /mnt/solaris0/boot/grub/menu.lst That should get the ubuntu and vista entries into the startup boot menu. You may still not be able to boot into vista as it check a signature in grub, but perhaps this has been taken care of in the recent builds. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
Keep in mind that if you are tracking sales records. Blizzard just made an all time sales record with a PC based game (The sequel to World of Warcraft). Yup, that's what the article I read a month or so stated. MMORPGs like WoW are the most successful of the PC games anymore. Probably because of the way you play them. It'd be hard(er) to do on a console. Damn, I need to find that article again. WoW is 3D but even that cannot touch the 2D Platform style Maple Story. What would it take to get a Korean developer to do a OpenSolaris port or even better an OpenSolaris LiveCD of the game/game client? ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] slightly odd behavior with snv_69 and a v40z
decent enough machine but while booting I wa presented with errors about a bus running out of resources. I'll try to capture that off the console. I figure that I may as well flash up the BIOS and SP and maybe that is the issue at play here. The SP says I have this : localhost $ inventory get software Name Revision Install Date Description BIOS-V40zV2.35.2.2 Mon Oct 23 13:59:48 2006 Platform BIOS for V40z servers SP Value-Add V2.4.0.10 Factory InstalledSP Value-Add Software SP Base V2.4.0.10 Factory InstalledSP Base Software localhost $ However this : http://www.sun.com/download/products.xml?id=45b0166d says I can have SP version 2.4.0.14 and V40z BIOS version 2.35.3.2 I do the download .. setup the NFS share etc etc and lo and behold that download only has 2.4.0.10 in it : ./sw_images/sp/spbase/V2.4.0.10/install.image I had to check the md5 SUM and yes I have the correct download but not the correct BIOS. That is odd. as for the strangeness during boot I will try to capture that with the console redirection feature. Thus far it appears on my DEC Terminal and no where else and that is odd indeed. It *should* be in the syslog somewhere also. I'm not very helpful here ... but I am pointing out that something is amiss with that V40z BIOS/SP update download and also that perhaps snv_69 has an issue with this hardware. Now I will try to fetch real data. Dennis ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Run Vb Application Sun Solaris 10
Problem : I want to Run Vb Application and MS Access as a backend on Sun Solaris 10. I want to make solaris system is operating system and other window based system Access Application and database from that Solaris System. Not gonna happen! Stay with windows as nothing will float your boat[1]. ... and Access is [b]not[/b] a database. It only pretends to be one. See if you can port your application, if possible do so. - Akhilesh [1] Nothing can float a sunk boat. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
You gentlemen have made some good points. One of my goals with my open letter was to encourage Solaris to find ways to allow users who are not in the technical elite to use the awesome power that is available. Ubuntu seeks to be friendly by dumbing-down the Linux system. This is a lowest-common-denominator solution. Regular users want the power that can be offered by the command line, but don't have the time to learn the (you must admit) archaic interface. Build them an intuitive, lean interface that explains the options so that the non-technical can use them in about 5 minutes, and you've got a smash-hit on your hands. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
On 8/2/07, Korey Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let us, for the purpose of making a point, assume that you are 100% correct in your statements. Following from those, how will persons you write about be able to fix something they know nothing about and aren't able/willing to learn it? How can any person fix something if they do not know and/or understand what is broken? That would mean they understand how a computer works, which is contrary to your premise that average users do not have any such understanding. In plain English: both conditions aren't possible. If you want to be able to fix your computer, you will have to understand how it functions and what is broken and how to fix it. There is currently no way around that. Can't have your cake and eat it too. These points were made in a couple of places, so I'll address them here. This idea that average users don't understand how their computer works, therefore it doesn't matter if they can fix it or not, locks out millions of computer users. It is based on the assumption that the average users is not capable of, nor interested in, learning. I think this is a low opinion indeed of most people. Not interested. They will only do it if there is not another choice. (People just don't have the time) I believe there are few problems that an average user could run in to that could not be fixed by briefly explaining what went wrong, and then offering clearly guided steps for fixing it. Reboot. Try again. As an example: My display is not working properly. The image you see on the screen is the result of both software and hardware. We cannot help you with your hardware, but if these software instructions do not solve the problem, please try using a different monitor with your computer to see if the problem continues. If it doesn't the problem is with your monitor. Would you like to continue with the software side? Yes. No. This would be great training for techs... Remember, People don't really care, they just want simple (iTunes/iPod simple) Yes. Your computer contains circuitry responsible for producing an image on your screen. This circuitry (usually called a GPU) is controlled by a piece of software called a graphics driver. Most problems relate to the type of graphics driver. Usually re-installing it solves these problems. Would you like to reinstall your driver? Yes. No. Jibberish.. Yes your compuer cointains hyper-relays responsible for producing an image on your screen. These hyper-relays (usually called ADQ) are controlled by a piece of software called a vector putter Most problems relate to the type of vector putter. Usually reinstalling it solves the problem. Would you like to reinstall your putter? Y/N? You get the idea. No elaborate technical explanations are needed Yeah just throw a bunch of elaborate technical terms at them, but keep them in the dark. brian ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Run Vb Application Sun Solaris 10
On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 22:18 -0700, Akhilesh Mritunjai wrote: Problem : I want to Run Vb Application and MS Access as a backend on Sun Solaris 10. I want to make solaris system is operating system and other window based system Access Application and database from that Solaris System. Not gonna happen! Stay with windows as nothing will float your boat[1]. ... and Access is [b]not[/b] a database. It only pretends to be one. See if you can port your application, if possible do so. Why not use sqlite as the backend on Solaris then.. Should be do-able. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An Open Letter to the Solaris Community.
Let us, for the purpose of making a point, assume that you are 100% correct in your statements. Following from those, how will persons you write about be able to fix something they know nothing about and aren't able/willing to learn it? How can any person fix something if they do not know and/or understand what is broken? That would mean they understand how a computer works, which is contrary to your premise that average users do not have any such understanding. In plain English: both conditions aren't possible. If you want to be able to fix your computer, you will have to understand how it functions and what is broken and how to fix it. There is currently no way around that. Can't have your cake and eat it too. These points were made in a couple of places, so I'll address them here. This idea that average users don't understand how their computer works, therefore it doesn't matter if they can fix it or not, locks out millions of computer users. It is based on the assumption that the average users is not capable of, nor interested in, learning. I think this is a low opinion indeed of most people. I believe there are few problems that an average user could run in to that could not be fixed by briefly explaining what went wrong, and then offering clearly guided steps for fixing it. As an example: My display is not working properly. The image you see on the screen is the result of both software and hardware. We cannot help you with your hardware, but if these software instructions do not solve the problem, please try using a different monitor with your computer to see if the problem continues. If it doesn't the problem is with your monitor. Would you like to continue with the software side? Yes. No. Yes. Your computer contains circuitry responsible for producing an image on your screen. This circuitry (usually called a GPU) is controlled by a piece of software called a graphics driver. Most problems relate to the type of graphics driver. Usually re-installing it solves these problems. Would you like to reinstall your driver? Yes. No. You get the idea. No elaborate technical explanations are needed. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Run Vb Application Sun Solaris 10
On 8/2/07, Akhilesh Mritunjai [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Problem : I want to Run Vb Application and MS Access as a backend on Sun Solaris 10. I want to make solaris system is operating system and other window based system Access Application and database from that Solaris System. Could you please give us some background as to what you are trying to do? I don't understand why you want to run it on Solaris. Not gonna happen! Stay with windows as nothing will float your boat[1]. ... and Access is [b]not[/b] a database. It only pretends to be one. See if you can port your application, if possible do so. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database - Akhilesh [1] Nothing can float a sunk boat. Except emptying the Main Ballast Tanks This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
