Re: [osol-discuss] Open Solaris going the way of the Amiga
On 06/28/10 09:57 PM, Giovanni wrote: I really do hope it it like you say. Nevertheless, I have t say it is very difficult to work this way. I am talking OpenSolaris (but many things apply to Solaris as well). 1) No roadmap (do you have seen one recently) 2) Support for new hardware is still in development branches (new SAS 2 controllers from LSI in svn_134) 3)svn_134 has still lots of bugs/issues (at least in the GUI): NIC configuration is a pain; better go via command line 4) some key components (i.e. ramdisk implementation) have severe performance issues (a ram disk running at 500MB/s on DDR3 1333 is slower than working on a striped physical disk set; same ramdisk on Linux on same hw runs at several GB/s) We all know no perfect software is there (the perfect one is the one that never comes out), but short releases cycles (with roadmap) allow community to test and contribute and to make things more stable and better performing. Instead no svn releases after 134 are out there and no idea if/when they will come and what they will contain... Ahem: http://genunix.org/dist/richlowe/README.txt http://genunix.org/dist/richlowe/ Cheers, -Shawn ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Oracle has Linux video codecs, so codecs for OSOL?
I know that Fluendo offers a free MP3 sound codec. But does Fluendo offer free video codecs? Alan, I know that many Linux distros has video codecs included. As Unbreakable Linux is another distro, maybe it also has video codecs included? (Unless it is a strictly server distro). If video codecs are included in Unbreakable Linux, then Oracle has licenses. Maybe those licenses could be transfered to OpenSolaris? The point was that it would be nice if latest VLC player would be offered in the IPS package system. Ive heard that you can build VLC via spec files, but that is cumbersome for newbies. (Does this spec file work well or are there lots of problems?) -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Oracle has Linux video codecs, so codecs for OSOL?
Hi, On 06/29/10 09:45, Orvar Korvar wrote: I know that Fluendo offers a free MP3 sound codec. But does Fluendo offer free video codecs? Alan, I know that many Linux distros has video codecs included. Wrong assumption. The most of Linux distros are not delivering non-free multimedia codecs for free. Some of them are cheating with some unofficial repositories and one-click installations. Others are using Codeina way with payed Fluendo codecs, the same way as OpenSolaris distro is doing. As Unbreakable Linux is another distro, maybe it also has video codecs included? (Unless it is a strictly server distro). If video codecs are included in Unbreakable Linux, then Oracle has licenses. Maybe those licenses could be transfered to OpenSolaris? I do not believe OEL bundles non-free multimedia codecs. Best regards, Milan ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Oracle Unveils Next Generation Sun Fire x86 Clustered Systems
when Oracle says Oracle Solaris, that includes the OpenSolaris distro.nbsp; For instance, if you buy Oracle Solaris support, it *includes* support for running the OpenSolaris distro on that machine. that clarifies everything for me. for now on when Oracle mentions oracle solaris, now I know they are also including Opensolaris in their strategy. this made my day even better! -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Open Solaris going the way of the Amiga
Hi Giovanni, On 06/29/10 06:57, Giovanni wrote 4) some key components (i.e. ramdisk implementation) have severe performance issues (a ram disk running at 500MB/s on DDR3 1333 is slower than working on a striped physical disk set; same ramdisk on Linux on same hw runs at several GB/s) Bug number, please? For the rest, I understand your frustration but that is all I can do. Use alternative distro if you cannot wait for Oracle distro, please. Best regards, Milan ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Oracle needs to re-evaluate it's stance on pretty much everything
Hi Jack, On 06/29/10 06:32, Jack Kielsmeier wrote: I’m really missing pre-Oracle Sun. Recently, my company decided to purchase many Sun Fire X4200 servers. We needed DC power supplies and nothing too powerful CPU wise. Less than 24 hours upon submitting an order, we decided we wanted to lower the amount of systems ordered. In order to do so, we would have to pay a 15% fee (on LIST price) of canceled systems. My company has been a Sun customer for many years, ordering millions of dollars of equipment. This is not a good way to make your customers happy. We decided to simply keep the order as is. Additionally, we have been evaluating OpenSolaris for production purposes. We primarily use Solaris 10. OpenSolaris makes Solaris 10 look like a dinosaur, but Solaris 10 is proven and OpenSolaris isn’t exactly known to be used in major production environments. Before Oracle, Sun was very open and would talk about the product. Now, getting information is like pulling teeth. We are now considering abandoning the idea of using OpenSolaris in a production environment, just months prior to our planned rollout. We were also looking at Sun Open Storage as an alternative to some NetApp purchases, but once again, due to Oracles (in my opinion) shady business practices, we are going to abandon that also. It’s sad really. I really like Sun hardware, but I see my shop changing to HP or IBM in the future and transitioning off of Solaris 10. We have already started running a mix of Linux + Solaris. sorry to hear this. Much better thing you can do it is to escalate these things through your sales representatives in Oracle. opensolaris-discuss@ will not help you with it much. Best regards, Milan ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Open Solaris going the way of the Amiga
You (Giovanni) wrote: I really do hope it it like you say. Nevertheless, I have t say it is very difficult to work this way. I am talking OpenSolaris (but many things apply to Solaris as well). 1) No roadmap (do you have seen one recently) Has been mentioned many times here: Oracle has a policy of NEVER publishing roadmaps. So, that fact, that you did not SEE any roadmap does not mean, that there is no such roadmap... Anyone of the engineers or people inside Oracle talking to stuff on those roadmaps are under the threat of being thrown out immediately. So, sorry, get used to that fact... 2) Support for new hardware is still in development branches (new SAS 2 controllers from LSI in svn_134) Which new hardware? Oracle's? Your's? Anybody's? You can contribute as well, and add the driver you'd like to see yourself... 3)svn_134 has still lots of bugs/issues (at least in the GUI): NIC configuration is a pain; better go via command line That's one of the reasons, why OSOL 2010.X isn't out yet... ;-) 4) some key components (i.e. ramdisk implementation) have severe performance issues (a ram disk running at 500MB/s on DDR3 1333 is slower than working on a striped physical disk set; same ramdisk on Linux on same hw runs at several GB/s) We all know no perfect software is there (the perfect one is the one that never comes out), but short releases cycles (with roadmap) allow community to test and contribute and to make things more stable and better performing. You can iterate that topic ad infinitum, you won't change Oracle's way of doing business w.r.t. roadmaps... ;-) And, as others mentioned, RTSL, there are infos up to build 142... Instead no svn releases after 134 are out there and no idea if/when they will come and what they will contain... Can we get a new chorus line, please? And, again, check the source, there are infos up to 142 already... Ok, I know one can go, grab source, compile and test: this makes test base much narrower and more error prone... So, you're placing yourself into the position of beggar with no intent to help... ;-) If you develop applications relying on certain OS features (such as ZFS, RAMdisk, COMSTAR, ...) you expect to test those features and give feedback on bugs/improvements/perf issues, not to start developing/debugging those features (you can, but again, how may will have experience to do this ? Developing a kernel driver is a complete different story from developing an application layer...different experience, competencies, dev languages, ...) In former times, these things were called Alpha- and Beta-tests. And were VERY limited. Now we do have OpenSolaris, and that's open to everyone, what's your complaint here? Even with precise Alpha- and Beta-tests there have NEVER EVER before been 2-weekly updates... So, what we now have, even with the slight delay, is way better than what was available years ago... Or as Monty Python put it: Always look on the bright side of life! I really do hope the story with Solaris/Opensolaris goes on, but I must admit (and I think all the posts in the newsgroups confirm this) that working this way is very difficult for us and -as far as i can see - for many others. No-one said otherwise! Yes, it might be difficult, but, changes require BOTH PARTIES to change. So, try to get accustomed to the change, and look at the bright side! I am not talking about having the latest fancy GUI with 3D effects (even if maybe this is important for the ones who adopted Osol as a serious desktop replacement) but also having new fundamental server hardware support. Why should a PAID ORACLE employee develop drivers for hardware that will never show up in an Oracle product? They do it on their spare time, just like you and me! If everything will be tied up to Sun hardwarewe are back to a proprietory solution for custom hardware, the Apple way I think most of folks here around do not appreciate very much No, there's a fundamental difference! You can add, you#re allowed to, and you have the COMPLETE source! Anyway, we all have to sit down and wait for feedback to our knock knock at Oracle door: we do not know if anybody will open and what the'll tell You're not knowcking Oracle's door, you're beating at a door to the COMMUNITY. Wrong door! But-sadly- time is running out, Oracle . Why? There were fantastic FY numbers from Oracle last week... Matthias -- Matthias Pfützner| mailto:pfu...@germany | It's all very cool, but @work: +49 6103 752-394 | @home: +49 6151 75717 | I wonder, what it really SunCS, Ampèrestraße 6 | Lichtenbergstraße 73 | means. Anon. MIT Student 63225 Langen, FRG| 64289 Darmstadt, FRG | in Byte's 4/96 Editorial ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] [opengrok] setup issue opengrok fails....
I am trying to comfigure opengrok. As per Opengrok documentation.
done setup on Solaris X86 10 machine.
when tried to acess http://localhost:8080/opengrok
getting runtime error as
type Exception report
message Internal Server Error
description The server encountered an internal error (Internal Server Error)
that prevented it from fulfilling this request.
exception
org.apache.jasper.JasperException: Unable to compile class for JSPNote:
sun.tools.javac.Main has been deprecated.
An error occurred between lines: 23 and 83 in the jsp file: /projects.jspf
Generated servlet error:
/var/apache/tomcat/work/Standalone/localhost/opengrok/index$jsp.java:77: '('
expected.
ListString project = new ArrayListString();
^
An error occurred between lines: 23 and 83 in the jsp file: /projects.jspf
Generated servlet error:
/var/apache/tomcat/work/Standalone/localhost/opengrok/index$jsp.java:105: ';'
expected.
for (Cookie cookie : cookies) {
^
An error occurred between lines: 23 and 83 in the jsp file: /projects.jspf
Generated servlet error:
/var/apache/tomcat/work/Standalone/localhost/opengrok/index$jsp.java:107: ';'
expected.
for (String proj :
cookie.getValue().split(,)) {
^
An error occurred at line: 104 in the jsp file: /menu.jspf
Generated servlet error:
/var/apache/tomcat/work/Standalone/localhost/opengrok/index$jsp.java:341: ';'
expected.
for (Project p :
env.getProjects()) {
^
4 errors, 1 warning
at org.apache.jasper.compiler.Compiler.compile(Compiler.java:285)
at org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.loadJSP(JspServlet.java:548)
at
org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet$JspServletWrapper.loadIfNecessary(JspServlet.java:176)
at
org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet$JspServletWrapper.service(JspServlet.java:188)
at
org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.serviceJspFile(JspServlet.java:381)
at org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.service(JspServlet.java:473)
at javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:853)
at
org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationFilterChain.internalDoFilter(ApplicationFilterChain.java:247)
at
org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationFilterChain.doFilter(ApplicationFilterChain.java:193)
at
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardWrapperValve.invoke(StandardWrapperValve.java:243)
at
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invokeNext(StandardPipeline.java:566)
at
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invoke(StandardPipeline.java:472)
at org.apache.catalina.core.ContainerBase.invoke(ContainerBase.java:943)
at
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardContextValve.invoke(StandardContextValve.java:190)
at
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invokeNext(StandardPipeline.java:566)
at
org.apache.catalina.valves.CertificatesValve.invoke(CertificatesValve.java:246)
at
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invokeNext(StandardPipeline.java:564)
at
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invoke(StandardPipeline.java:472)
at org.apache.catalina.core.ContainerBase.invoke(ContainerBase.java:943)
at
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardContext.invoke(StandardContext.java:2347)
at
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardHostValve.invoke(StandardHostValve.java:180)
at
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invokeNext(StandardPipeline.java:566)
at
org.apache.catalina.valves.ErrorDispatcherValve.invoke(ErrorDispatcherValve.java:170)
at
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invokeNext(StandardPipeline.java:564)
at
org.apache.catalina.valves.ErrorReportValve.invoke(ErrorReportValve.java:170)
at
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invokeNext(StandardPipeline.java:564)
at
org.apache.catalina.valves.AccessLogValve.invoke(AccessLogValve.java:468)
at
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invokeNext(StandardPipeline.java:564)
at
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invoke(StandardPipeline.java:472)
at org.apache.catalina.core.ContainerBase.invoke(ContainerBase.java:943)
at
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardEngineValve.invoke(StandardEngineValve.java:174)
at
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invokeNext(StandardPipeline.java:566)
at
org.apache.catalina.core.StandardPipeline.invoke(StandardPipeline.java:472)
at org.apache.catalina.core.ContainerBase.invoke(ContainerBase.java:943)
at
org.apache.catalina.connector.http.HttpProcessor.process(HttpProcessor.java:1027)
at
org.apache.catalina.connector.http.HttpProcessor.run(HttpProcessor.java:1125)
Re: [osol-discuss] [opengrok] setup issue opengrok fails....
Hi,
Sadanand Limaye schreef op 29-06-10 12:36:
Generated servlet error:
/var/apache/tomcat/work/Standalone/localhost/opengrok/index$jsp.java:77: '('
expected.
ListString project = new ArrayListString();
^
An error occurred between lines: 23 and 83 in the jsp file: /projects.jspf
Generated servlet error:
/var/apache/tomcat/work/Standalone/localhost/opengrok/index$jsp.java:105: ';'
expected.
for (Cookie cookie : cookies) {
These lines use Java 5.0 language features, are you using at least a 1.5
JVM?
Onno
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Description: OpenPGP digital signature
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Re: [osol-discuss] Oracle Unveils Next Generation Sun Fire x86 Clustered Systems
On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Edward Martinez mindbende...@live.com wrote: How is that any different from how Sun positioned it? I always got the impression that OS was the development platform for Solaris Next. How has that changed? fpsm I had the impression with a stable release and a service contract, OpenSolaris could be also be used in production enviroments. I think the Sun fire x2250 server, now it's E-O-L, was one of SUNs servers that also listed opensolaris as one of the supported OS. I think non of Oracle's current Sun servers lists both Solaris and OpenSolaris as supported OS, they only list solaris 10. but as usual i can be wrong ;) [...] Ah... there's the rub. It comes down to the definition of production. Just because a vendor says that they will support something, does not necessarily make it recommended or preferred as a production solution. It's a matter of due diligence on the part of the customer to look at all of the factors, including the probable long term plan for a product and stated intended use by the vendor for a product, before deciding to put that product in production in their environment. In this case I think Sun, and now Oracle, have been pretty consistently clear that OpenSolaris is intended as the development platform for Solaris Next, not as a parity choice with Solaris 10. To me that says bleeding edge, which in my experience is almost never particularly well suited for a production environment. For development? Sure. For proof of concept? Yep. For production support of non-mission critical, non-core service. Maybe. For core business processes? Not even close. fpsm ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Oracle Unveils Next Generation Sun Fire x86 Clustered Systems
The question of Support for Solaris/OpenSolaris has been discussed close ad infinitum here already. Please check the archives! And, the decision to use OpenSolaris on a production server is CU's (or yours), not Sun's, nor Oracle's... Matthias You (Fredrich Maney) wrote: On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Edward Martinez mindbende...@live.com wrote: How is that any different from how Sun positioned it? I always got the impression that OS was the development platform for Solaris Next. How has that changed? fpsm I had the impression with a stable release and a service contract, OpenSolaris could be also be used in production enviroments. I think the Sun fire x2250 server, now it's E-O-L, was one of SUNs servers that also listed opensolaris as one of the supported OS. I think non of Oracle's current Sun servers lists both Solaris and OpenSolaris as supported OS, they only list solaris 10. but as usual i can be wrong ;) [...] Ah... there's the rub. It comes down to the definition of production. Just because a vendor says that they will support something, does not necessarily make it recommended or preferred as a production solution. It's a matter of due diligence on the part of the customer to look at all of the factors, including the probable long term plan for a product and stated intended use by the vendor for a product, before deciding to put that product in production in their environment. In this case I think Sun, and now Oracle, have been pretty consistently clear that OpenSolaris is intended as the development platform for Solaris Next, not as a parity choice with Solaris 10. To me that says bleeding edge, which in my experience is almost never particularly well suited for a production environment. For development? Sure. For proof of concept? Yep. For production support of non-mission critical, non-core service. Maybe. For core business processes? Not even close. fpsm ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org -- Matthias Pfützner| mailto:pfu...@germany |Keith Packard said: @work: +49 6103 752-394 | @home: +49 6151 75717 | R5 is different from R4. SunCS, Ampèrestraße 6 | Lichtenbergstraße 73 | That's why we changed the 63225 Langen, FRG| 64289 Darmstadt, FRG | release number :-) ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Oracle has Linux video codecs, so codecs for OSOL?
Orvar Korvar wrote: Alan, I know that many Linux distros has video codecs included. As Unbreakable Linux is another distro, maybe it also has video codecs included? (Unless it is a strictly server distro). If video codecs are included in Unbreakable Linux, then Oracle has licenses. Maybe those licenses could be transfered to OpenSolaris? Unbreakable Linux is a marketing program. Oracle Enterprise Linux is Oracle's distro, based on Red Hat Enterprise Linux. As far as I know it has no non-free video codecs included, nor could we publicly discuss any third-party commercial license details if it did, as those sorts of contracts typically include confidentiality clauses. -- -Alan Coopersmith-alan.coopersm...@oracle.com Oracle Solaris Platform Engineering: X Window System ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Open Solaris going the way of the Amiga
Ahem: http://genunix.org/dist/richlowe/README.txt http://genunix.org/dist/richlowe/ Cheers, -Shawn Thanks ;} -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Open Solaris going the way of the Amiga
I am talking OpenSolaris (but many things apply to Solaris as well). 1) No roadmap (do you have seen one recently) 2) Support for new hardware is still in development branches (new SAS 2 controllers from LSI in svn_134) 3)svn_134 has still lots of bugs/issues (at least in the GUI): NIC configuration is a pain; better go via command line 4) some key components (i.e. ramdisk implementation) have severe performance issues (a ram disk running at 500MB/s on DDR3 1333 is slower than working on a striped physical disk set; same ramdisk on Linux on same hw runs at several GB/s) I think the delay is making both developers and users nervious... The longer the delay the more difficult it is to put things together..so I think we have now arrived at the fork debate again and produce a community edition with substituted licensed packages..we have now had enough delays before developers get involved in other projects.It would be posible to run it along side any future developments...this seems to be what BSD has done? I can't help feeling that Oracle will put professionals off contributing into a project owned on a commercial basis. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Oracle Unveils Next Generation Sun Fire x86 Clustered Systems
Matthias oh god of the forum shut the 4uck up you are an annoying koolaid drinking asshole!!! -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Open Solaris going the way of the Amiga
3)svn_134 has still lots of bugs/issues (at least in the GUI): NIC configuration is a pain; better go via command line That's one of the reasons, why OSOL 2010.X isn't out yet... ;-) We have heard that bugs are getting fixed and thats why 2010.X is not out yet. What is getting fixed? What is the progress? Why can it not be published that bug .xx has been fixed. Keep the silence up and the only one who will be left is Edward Ned Harvey . A simple progress report would make a world of difference. Something like this published with a readme of what has been accomplished once a week would be nice. OSOL 2010.x |*|*|*|*|**...|.|.|.|.|.| -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Oracle Unveils Next Generation Sun Fire x86 Clustered Systems
testing the waters to see if I can get away with treating Oracle employee's the same way they treat us community members and hope that I don't get banned from this one way free for all. I hope there is someone that can realign the employee's attitudes when it comes to treating people right on the forums. Having a holier than thou attitude is gonna make you despise eve what you love the most, so you will expect to see a decline in the people and the want for your failing community. It is not the community posters that are driving the FUD it is the attitudes of the employee's and the zealots that pose the danger here. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Open Solaris going the way of the Amiga
Mike, You (Mike DeMarco) wrote: 3)svn_134 has still lots of bugs/issues (at least in the GUI): NIC configuration is a pain; better go via command line That's one of the reasons, why OSOL 2010.X isn't out yet... ;-) We have heard that bugs are getting fixed and thats why 2010.X is not out yet. What is getting fixed? What is the progress? Why can it not be published that bug .xx has been fixed. Keep the silence up and the only one who will be left is Edward Ned Harvey . A simple progress report would make a world of difference. Something like this published with a readme of what has been accomplished once a week would be nice. OSOL 2010.x |*|*|*|*|**...|.|.|.|.|.| -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org Again, you're asking the wrong audience here... Even if I (or any Sun/Oracle Employee) would know more, I wouldn't be allowed to tell anything... Matthias -- Matthias Pfützner| mailto:pfu...@germany | And no matter what hard- @work: +49 6103 752-394 | @home: +49 6151 75717 | ware you have, it's really SunCS, Ampèrestraße 6 | Lichtenbergstraße 73 | hard to learn to play 63225 Langen, FRG| 64289 Darmstadt, FRG | piano. R. Needleman, Byte ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Oracle Unveils Next Generation Sun Fire x86 Clustered Systems
Chad, that's getting personal now... At least in Germany, the country where I live, I would be allowed to sue you for such words... So, please, stop that! Matthias Du (Chad Welsh) schreibst: Matthias oh god of the forum shut the 4uck up you are an annoying koolaid drinking asshole!!! -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org -- Matthias Pfützner| mailto:pfu...@germany | And no matter what hard- @work: +49 6103 752-394 | @home: +49 6151 75717 | ware you have, it's really SunCS, Ampèrestraße 6 | Lichtenbergstraße 73 | hard to learn to play 63225 Langen, FRG| 64289 Darmstadt, FRG | piano. R. Needleman, Byte ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Oracle Unveils Next Generation Sun Fire x86 Clustered Systems
Chad, again: I would love to tell you more, if I would know, and if I would be allowed to. So, again: You're using the WRONG forum to ask these questions. All those, working for Oracle/Sun here on this alias simply can not tell you anything, either because they don't know, or because they are not allowed to! You would really need to address this to the upper management at Oracle, and make them aware, of what you think treatment of community members should be (from a corporate standpoint!). Still, it might be the case, that there wouldn't be a change in information flow... I also would love to know more, and be allowed to tell more, but, face it, I don't know, and I'm not allowed... None of the Sun/Oracle people have spread FUD, none of them have posed dangers. The only thing, we again and again try to transmit, is: There's a CHANGE and we ALL (community, as well as we Oracle/Sun employees) need to accept that. And we need to be patient... So, again, let's stop this discussion here and now! Matthias You (Chad Welsh) wrote: testing the waters to see if I can get away with treating Oracle employee's the same way they treat us community members and hope that I don't get banned from this one way free for all. I hope there is someone that can realign the employee's attitudes when it comes to treating people right on the forums. Having a holier than thou attitude is gonna make you despise eve what you love the most, so you will expect to see a decline in the people and the want for your failing community. It is not the community posters that are driving the FUD it is the attitudes of the employee's and the zealots that pose the danger here. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org -- Matthias Pfützner| mailto:pfu...@germany | And no matter what hard- @work: +49 6103 752-394 | @home: +49 6151 75717 | ware you have, it's really SunCS, Ampèrestraße 6 | Lichtenbergstraße 73 | hard to learn to play 63225 Langen, FRG| 64289 Darmstadt, FRG | piano. R. Needleman, Byte ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Oracle Unveils Next Generation Sun Fire x86 Clustered Systems
On 29 Jun 2010, at 15:16, Chad Welsh wrote: testing the waters to see if I can get away with treating Oracle employee's the same way they treat us community members and hope that I don't get banned from this one way free for all. If you're aware of Oracle employees personally abusing community members, I'm sure larry.elli...@oracle.com would like to hear about it. Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Interaction Designer Oracle Corporation Ireland Ltd. mailto:calum.ben...@oracle.com Solaris Desktop Team http://blogs.sun.com/calum +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Oracle Corp. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Open Solaris going the way of the Amiga
It's summer. Programmers gone mountain-climbing ;) -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Open Solaris going the way of the Amiga
Sorry, meant to reply to mdemarco... -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Open Solaris going the way of the Amiga
Again, you're asking the wrong audience here... Even if I (or any Sun/Oracle Employee) would know more, I wouldn't be allowed to tell anything... Understood. Seems no-one is able to answer the questions, This is what is leading to the downfall of this development. Without feedback `everything goes into runaway mode` Users need to give feedback on what works and what does not work. Developers need to give feedback on how it works. Companies need to give feedback on what they will support. Oracle has broken the closed loop which WILL destroy this project OpenSolaris Many developers have poured heart and soul into OpenSolaris and they are being let down as much as the users. OK, so if this is the wrong place to air this, where is the correct place to start a revolt against ORACLE and get OpenSolaris out of their hands and into the hands of the people that actually care about it. I for one would be all in on that kind of revolt. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Oracle has Linux video codecs, so codecs for OSOL?
Why are you worried about video codecs? If you use OpenSolaris, you should know how to build applications from source. The last time I tried, MPlayer, the best video player IMO, which comes with all the video codecs you might need, built under OpenSolaris. (There used to be an IPS repository which had MPlayer and some other multimedia applications -- myunix.org -- but it appears the owner let the domain name expire.) As Milan points out, few Linux distros provide non-free multimedia codecs for free. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Oracle has Linux video codecs, so codecs for OSOL?
Why are you worried about video codecs? If you use OpenSolaris, you should know how to build applications from source. The last time I tried, MPlayer, the best video player IMO, which comes with all the video codecs you might need, built under OpenSolaris. (There used to be an IPS repository which had MPlayer and some other multimedia applications -- myunix.org -- but it appears the owner let the domain name expire.) Check http://ips.homeunix.com:10906/ ; hope this won't /. the site... As Milan points out, few Linux distros provide non-free multimedia codecs for free. Chavdar -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Open Solaris going the way of the Amiga
revolt against ORACLE and get OpenSolaris out of their hands I afraid that they *own* this project/product. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Open Solaris going the way of the Amiga
Mike, You (Mike DeMarco) wrote: Again, you're asking the wrong audience here... Even if I (or any Sun/Oracle Employee) would know more, I wouldn't be allowed to tell anything... Understood. Seems no-one is able to answer the questions, This is what is leading to the downfall of this development. Without feedback `everything goes into runaway mode` Users need to give feedback on what works and what does not work. Developers need to give feedback on how it works. Companies need to give feedback on what they will support. Oracle has broken the closed loop which WILL destroy this project OpenSolaris Many developers have poured heart and soul into OpenSolaris and they are being let down as much as the users. I'm not sure, that Oracle has broken the loop, it seems, and we've been pointing to that many times, that there are expectations out there, that are currently not fulfilled, and it also seems, that there are some, who try to conclude, that this is an indication of breaking up. We've tried many times to re-assure the community as much as we can, and it seems, we've been successful in many places. In some, we might not have been as successful. We've also already discussed the term support a couple of times here already, so I won't dive into that again. And, at least it's obvious, that Solaris (and therefore also OpenSolaris) is a crucial part of Oracle's software portfolio! Technical feedback is, what this list (and many others on opensolaris.org) is (are) all about, and, yes, the engineers working and reading here, do take that feedback very serious. So, that loop is not broken. Therefore, I do not see, that this developement is led to a downfall. Yes, there are some, who get nervous, and who do spread their nervousness here. That's totally understandable! We all would also have loved to see OSOL 2010.H1 out already. Or even a message from someone up the chain providing reassurance. Sadly, both things didn't happen (yet). So, I'm not quite sure which questions you refer to. I only see one, over and over again (perhaps in slight variations, and with slightly different tips or conclusions): When will OSOL 2010.H1 be out? We've been trying to answer those questions by re-assuring and asking for patience. Sadly, that's all, we can do. We also would love to be able to answer these questions more precisely. We can't, as we don't know. It'll be there, once it's there... We all can't predict the future, so, sadly, that's all we can state... OK, so if this is the wrong place to air this, where is the correct place to start a revolt against ORACLE and get OpenSolaris out of their hands and into the hands of the people that actually care about it. I for one would be all in on that kind of revolt. I'm sure, you can understand, that I can't give you any type of advice on how and where to start a revolt against Oracle... ;-) My only caveat being: I'm not sure, a revolt is needed... ;-) (see my re-assurance above). But: In case you start a revolt or a revolution, think about the consequences. You most certainly would loose all access to Oracle and his developers. And you would not gain much... That access-losing would be way more desastrous then waiting a bit more. In the end, what's this fuss all about currently? A binary distribution... Because: We're NOT talking about access to OpenSolaris, as OpenSolaris is NOT in the hands of Oracle, it's already OpenSource. And Oracle is caring very much about it! Yes, I know, waiting can be very tedious... Sadly, that's the best advice I can give right here... Matthias -- Matthias Pfützner| mailto:pfu...@germany | Wenn das Publikum keine @work: +49 6103 752-394 | @home: +49 6151 75717 | Fragen mehr stellen kann, SunCS, Ampèrestraße 6 | Lichtenbergstraße 73 | muß der Film zwangsläufig 63225 Langen, FRG| 64289 Darmstadt, FRG | langweilig werden. Fellini ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Open Solaris going the way of the Amiga
Again, you're asking the wrong audience here... Even if I (or any Sun/Oracle Employee) would know more, I wouldn't be allowed to tell anything... Understood. Seems no-one is able to answer the questions, This is what is leading to the downfall of this development. Without feedback `everything goes into runaway mode` Users need to give feedback on what works and what does not work. Developers need to give feedback on how it works. Companies need to give feedback on what they will support. Oracle has broken the closed loop which WILL destroy this project OpenSolaris Many developers have poured heart and soul into OpenSolaris and they are being let down as much as the users. OK, so if this is the wrong place to air this, where is the correct place to start a revolt against ORACLE and get OpenSolaris out of their hands and into the hands of the people that actually care about it. I for one would be all in on that kind of revolt. 1) IMO it's not about a revolt, nor would one do any good unless you know of enough alternative developers that you don't need code from their employees anymore. 2) figure out how to convince someone influential at Oracle (_not_ a bunch of developers, who probably don't like these rules any better than you do; in other words, probably nobody here) that it's likely to cost them lost profits if they don't make their silence policy a bit more realistic when dealing with open source projects. Their eye is pretty clearly on the bottom line, which is fine (if one could ignore the bottom line, we would still have Sun and wouldn't have to put up with Oracle), but that means you have to get their attention accordingly. Or maybe not you, but some place that currently spends megabucks with Oracle... -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Open Solaris going the way of the Amiga
Did you see today's announcement of the new systems? alan Impressive enough, but probably not of interest to those worrying about when 2010.xx will be released. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Open Solaris going the way of the Amiga
Matthias Pfützner matth...@pfuetzner.de wrote: Why should a PAID ORACLE employee develop drivers for hardware that will never show up in an Oracle product? They do it on their spare time, just like you and me! Why should a member of the community write software that will never show up in Solaris because there is no interest in collaboration? There was a reason for deciding to collaborate with the community in September 2004 and ther still is such a reason. Jörg -- EMail:jo...@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin j...@cs.tu-berlin.de(uni) joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Oracle Unveils Next Generation Sun Fire x86 Clustered Systems
Chad Welsh wrote: testing the waters to see if I can get away with treating Oracle employee's the same way they treat us community members and hope that I don't get banned from this one way free for all. It doesn't matter if the person you're attacking is an Oracle employee or not - that sort of behavior has no place on these forums/mailing lists, and is a violation of the community code of conduct. -- -Alan Coopersmith-alan.coopersm...@oracle.com Oracle Solaris Platform Engineering: X Window System ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Open Solaris going the way of the Amiga
Jörg, You (Joerg Schilling) wrote: Matthias Pfützner matth...@pfuetzner.de wrote: Why should a PAID ORACLE employee develop drivers for hardware that will never show up in an Oracle product? They do it on their spare time, just like you and me! Why should a member of the community write software that will never show up in Solaris because there is no interest in collaboration? There was a reason for deciding to collaborate with the community in September 2004 and ther still is such a reason. Jörg Taken out of context, that sounds strange... ;-) And hadn't been meant that way! Yes, there are good reasons to work on, with and for OpenSolaris! Matthias -- Matthias Pfützner| mailto:pfu...@germany | Wenn das Publikum keine @work: +49 6103 752-394 | @home: +49 6151 75717 | Fragen mehr stellen kann, SunCS, Ampèrestraße 6 | Lichtenbergstraße 73 | muß der Film zwangsläufig 63225 Langen, FRG| 64289 Darmstadt, FRG | langweilig werden. Fellini ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Oracle Unveils Next Generation Sun Fire x86 Clustered Systems
On 29 Jun 2010, at 15:16, Chad Welsh wrote: testing the waters to see if I can get away with treating Oracle employee's the same way they treat us community members and hope that I don't get banned from this one way free for all. If you're aware of Oracle employees personally abusing community members, I'm sure larry.elli...@oracle.com would like to hear about it. Personally, I doubt there are, and think he's going over the top just to make a point. I for one have _no_ problem with the typical Oracle (formerly Sun) employee; to the contrary, many go above and beyond the call; and the rest of us should perhaps make all the more point of mentioning that under the circumstances, so that they're well aware that we know it's not them (or is it they?) that are the problem. However, I think Oracle's _policy_ of silence being applied the way it is, _is_ abusive of community. That's certainly not the fault of your average Oracle employee...so maybe putting a flea in the head honcho's ear _would_ be addressing the real problem...which probably comes from or near the top, whether in origin or by neglect of recognizing the need for a little more flexibility and freakin' _delegation_ (a good thing usually) in certain cases. As to whether they've actually not said enough...well, technically we've got a day or two before they've slipped beyond 1st half 2010, which I think is what the last official word said to expect. But if they want to be taken seriously, they've got that long to either release something or just _tell us_ what to expect. Me, I'm pretty sure that if they want to get it right, it'll be ready when it's ready. Maybe the show-stopper bugs are tough. Maybe the organizational transition, or personnel turnover, or some other high priority project is slowing things down. Maybe as long as something does come out, and we have an approximate timeframe in which to expect it, it's none of our business exactly what's taking so long. So I'm not bothered so much by the delay, as by the silence. PS I'm pretty sure I tried emailing the previously mentioned address some time back, and it bounced. Perhaps an email coming from someone at fortune500.com won't bounce, but one coming from homeu...@isp.net (both fictional, but you get the point) will. If someone does try to email the man, then please to remember that courtesy and brevity will likely get much further than rudeness... -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Oracle has Linux video codecs, so codecs for OSOL?
Thanks for correcting me! That's what I had in mind. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] warning about mail on this list
Recently there has been mail on this list that violates the website Terms of Use. Individuals are being warned. However, if this trend continues the Website Team is prepared to take action up to and including moderation and/or deactivation of the list. Please do not respond to hostile posts because that only escalates the situation. http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Main/tou Jim ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] warning about mail on this list
I have noticed that moderation is already in place. Some (maybe off-topic, maybe not) posts are deleted almost immediately. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Oracle Unveils Next Generation Sun Fire x86 Clustered Systems
Matthias Pfützner and company, It has nothing to do with what you know or not, you sir are a pompus ass and treat people with total disrespect!!! Just because you work at Oracle and drink the Koolaid you can tell someone to go piss up a rope and use the forums as a personal insult playground. That is why I reply to your comment in that manner. Since nobody else in you group seems to have any balls to keep you in check with your manners. I advise you to look back at your posts in this forum to see how you have treated the people here with an air and vanity that only a zealot or ass would treat someone. Total disregard for someones personal right to have an issue, any issue and you swat them down with disdain and that is not need, especially from a company employee! Good day -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Oracle Unveils Next Generation Sun Fire x86 Clustered Systems
I do hope the development branch of solaris called opensolaris can become a more autominous community in the future. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] warning about mail on this list
Team is prepared to take action up to and including moderation careful its not emotional thinking and its the last resort. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] warning about mail on this list
Jim, I recommend you police your employee's and their demeaning behavior!!! when you treat people in that fashion they always tend to backlash. I think you should know best since I am always reading your post about making a better community. When you have company representatives (whether they realize they are or not) having attitude problems (holier than thou syndrome) with peoples opinions whether justified or not is only going to make the community hate you. do what you will with me I am just the messenger for the people that feel the same but are afraid to get kick off this forum. I have lost alot more in life than a seat on this forum and am willing to give up that right by bringing these abusers with no consequences to light. I hope you are enjoying the rain in Tokyo, I know I am it is killing the heat wave here. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] warning about mail on this list
Unless you have very specific examples of said post removals, you should not make such asssertions as, though I can't speak for the entire team, I am very sure posts have not have been removed from the mailing list archives as that is my domain and I am unaware of any such removals from this particular list. If there are specific examples of posts that have gone missing you believe to be in error, please do send the details to website-admin so we can investigate this further. As for moderation, it mostly consists of people complaining quietly about the temperature rating on the list rather than any organised conspiracy to snuff new and interesting conversations on the future of solaris and opensolaris. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Trouble detecting Seagate LP 2TB drives
fisher dot jim at mac dot com said: I doubt that Oracle is going to maintain any commitment to opensolaris, and am anticipating this whole site will disappear in the near future. With Solaris limited to Oracle's own hardware now, I expect the community behind it to do so as well. The OS will fade into obscurity along with all of the other UNIX's that linux has killed. A proactive proposition to oracle is needed the time is right,a communitee distro which will set its own direction.. In this global downturn we all need to reinvent ourselves before someone else forces you to do so... -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] warning about mail on this list
Unless you have very specific examples of said post removals, you should not make such asssertions Here you say that there is *NO* moderation. I have two examples, though can cite them only using my memory, as they are disappeared. Maybe not worth citing them actually. As for moderation, it mostly consists of Here you say that there *IS* moderation. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] warning about mail on this list
Sorry, I have found *one* of the disappeared posts. It was strangely placed in the post tree. Not sure about the other one. And it is still unclear whether there is moderation here. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] warning about mail on this list
No, I was trying to point out that your paranoid hysteria is merely people getting pretty fed up with the list, emailing us asking us to do something about it and our agreement that, yes, it has become a fairly tedious, abusive and stunningly unproductive venue for all sorts of bad behaviour. And, since you cannot produce what I am very certain doesn't exist, e.g. disappeared posts on this list/forum, I'm wondering if you think it was one of your own since you appeared to join the site to comment on Garret's departure about a month and a half ago and the vast majority of your contribution to this website has been in threads of a pointless pot-stirring nature. We do occasionally remove things when they very clearly violate the TOU. I remove quite a lot of porn spam which might be considered more valuable content than much of the continuing rants about what the future does or does not hold for us. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] warning about mail on this list
Maybe i could suggest that you do something like I used to do when I was in the Army. Have a Stand Down Day and use it to re-educate your employees on Code of Conduct, Ethics, Values, Company Policy, Etc. Maybe this will cool some heads in this forum and help to alleviate some temperaments. I can see that both sides need a cool off period and a little less bashing of the heads. Just my 2 Cents. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] warning about mail on this list
We do occasionally remove things when they very clearly violate the TOU Thank you. This answers my question. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] warning about mail on this list
On Tue, 2010-06-29 at 12:35 -0700, me wrote: Maybe i could suggest that you do something like I used to do when I was in the Army. Have a Stand Down Day and use it to re-educate your employees on Code of Conduct, Ethics, Values, Company Policy, Etc. Maybe this will cool some heads in this forum and help to alleviate some temperaments. I can see that both sides need a cool off period and a little less bashing of the heads. Just my 2 Cents. I would second this. I think having a 24-hour period where no posts of any sort are accepted (not *delayed*, but outright *rejected*) is a good idea at this point. -- Erik Trimble Java System Support Mailstop: usca22-123 Phone: x17195 Santa Clara, CA Timezone: US/Pacific (GMT-0800) ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] warning about mail on this list
On 29.06.2010 22:20, Erik Trimble wrote: On Tue, 2010-06-29 at 12:35 -0700, me wrote: Maybe i could suggest that you do something like I used to do when I was in the Army. Have a Stand Down Day and use it to re-educate your employees on Code of Conduct, Ethics, Values, Company Policy, Etc. Maybe this will cool some heads in this forum and help to alleviate some temperaments. I can see that both sides need a cool off period and a little less bashing of the heads. Just my 2 Cents. I would second this. I think having a 24-hour period where no posts of any sort are accepted (not *delayed*, but outright *rejected*) is a good idea at this point. Good timing. Especially considering how near we are the end of 2010.H1... ;) //Svein -- +---+--- /\ |Svein Skogen | sv...@d80.iso100.no \ / |Solberg Østli 9| PGP Key: 0xE5E76831 X|2020 Skedsmokorset | sv...@jernhuset.no / \ |Norway | PGP Key: 0xCE96CE13 | | sv...@stillbilde.net ascii | | PGP Key: 0x58CD33B6 ribbon |System Admin | svein-listm...@stillbilde.net Campaign|stillbilde.net | PGP Key: 0x22D494A4 +---+--- |msn messenger: | Mobile Phone: +47 907 03 575 |sv...@jernhuset.no | RIPE handle:SS16503-RIPE +---+--- If you really are in a hurry, mail me at svein-mob...@stillbilde.net This mailbox goes directly to my cellphone and is checked even when I'm not in front of my computer. Picture Gallery: https://gallery.stillbilde.net/v/svein/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] warning about mail on this list
Does this vote of support includes: Have a Stand Down Day and use it to re-educate your employees on Code of Conduct, Ethics, Values, Company Policy,. Just curious -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Open Solaris going the way of the Amiga
Den 29-06-2010 16:09, Mike DeMarco skrev: 3)svn_134 has still lots of bugs/issues (at least in the GUI): NIC configuration is a pain; better go via command line That's one of the reasons, why OSOL 2010.X isn't out yet... ;-) We have heard that bugs are getting fixed and thats why 2010.X is not out yet. What is getting fixed? What is the progress? Why can it not be published that bug .xx has been fixed. Keep the silence up and the only one who will be left is Edward Ned Harvey . A simple progress report would make a world of difference. Something like this published with a readme of what has been accomplished once a week would be nice. OSOL 2010.x |*|*|*|*|**...|.|.|.|.|.| I hate to contribute to the speculation, assumption, idealism, fear mongering, FUD spreading, and rabble rousing excitement these forums have enjoyed lately, but surely one more ignorant opinion coming from me won't hurt. ;-) Solaris 10 is aging and, as has been said here many times, OpenSolaris is to be the Solaris Next in some shape, fashion, or form. Perhaps this delay may very well come from Oracle deciding that it is time, as part of a campaign to show how much they are serious about their investment in Solaris, for the release of Solaris 11. Build 134, as we have seen it, is not ready so perhaps this long wait is to make it ready. We have seen many very fast changes in the dev releases of OpenSolaris, so I am sure they have accomplished a lot in this time. Maybe they are just tightening things up more so than we have seen in the previous releases because it is not going to be a typical OSOL release. Heck, it could have even been part of the deal with Sun. Sun could have released Solaris 11 to help generate some fanfare and revenue in the tight times during the wait for EU approval, but they didn't. Maybe allowing Oracle to release Solaris 11 is the reason why. Just a thought. Feel free to ignore and light your flame throwers back up. -Justin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] warning about mail on this list
From: opensolaris-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:opensolaris- discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Chad Welsh I recommend you police your employee's and their demeaning behavior!!! If you're talking about me (I am the recent offender for language on the list, and I apologize again for that) ... I am not an employee of sun or oracle, or in any way affiliated. I am just an IT guy, whose reason for being on this list is interest in solaris/opensolaris, and especially in love with ZFS. when you treat people in that fashion they always tend to backlash. I think you should know best since I am always reading your post about making a better community. When you have company representatives (whether they realize they are or not) having attitude problems (holier than thou syndrome) with peoples opinions whether justified or not is only going to make the community hate you. You seem to have disappointment in oracle's employees and contribution to the free community. This is the reason why I responded negatively toward your previous post. By posting here, you are not reaching oracle execs. You are reaching enthusiasts, and volunteers who like talking about a cool product. If you want to pressure oracle, you should call the support line, with your support contract, on your commercial products. Every time people post here, with all the FUD garbage, expressing so strongly that we're all disappointed and let down ... They're just rubbing salt into the wounds of the engineers who are on this list. The people who are on your side. It's a free product, that you're not paying for or contributing to, and it's an insult to the volunteers who are contributing to it. Oracle has made it clear that their commercial focus moving forward is solaris proper. That means you need to think of opensolaris as a free product, and all of the contributions from oracle you should think of as volunteer effort. They have no obligation to you. Negativity in the community does not motivate the developers to work harder. The reasons for opensolaris to exist are: (a) Some day, when opensolaris becomes the replacement for solaris, you are already familiar with all the stuff that's new. Assuming you were using opensolaris at home because you think it's so cool. (b) Provide a channel for community developers to contribute. Even though not much of this happens. (c) Opensolaris is a marketing tool. If you like ZFS etc, use opensolaris at home. Then you can tell everyone at work how great it is, and how much you love it at home, and convince the company to buy Solaris so you can use it at work too. (d) Provide an unsupported sandbox for enthusiasts to work in, using experimental features for free. Then, when features are mature enough, they can be ported into a commercial OS that has support. It keeps the quality of the supported release product up to a good standard, while minimizing the support and development cost. do what you will with me I am just the messenger for the people that No comment. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Open Solaris going the way of the Amiga
On 06/29/10 09:22 PM, Matthias Pfützner wrote: You (Giovanni) wrote: I really do hope it it like you say. Nevertheless, I have t say it is very difficult to work this way. I am talking OpenSolaris (but many things apply to Solaris as well). 1) No roadmap (do you have seen one recently) Has been mentioned many times here: Oracle has a policy of NEVER publishing roadmaps. So, that fact, that you did not SEE any roadmap does not mean, that there is no such roadmap... Anyone of the engineers or people inside Oracle talking to stuff on those roadmaps are under the threat of being thrown out immediately. So, sorry, get used to that fact... I usually stay well clear of these threads, but I keep seeing them and the common theme and cause is lack of communication. Open source projects are built on open communication as well as open code. Lack of communication will doom a project just as effectively as closing the source. You simply can't have a successful community when the bulk of the members can't communicate with the rest. Sun understood this, but I don't think Oracle does. I've been here since the beta, and I have to admit I have become very disillusioned this year. How can I promote something to my clients when I don't know what is has become? -- Ian. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Open Solaris going the way of the Amiga
On 29/06/2010, at 9:22 PM, Matthias Pfützner wrote: You (Giovanni) wrote: I really do hope it it like you say. Nevertheless, I have t say it is very difficult to work this way. I am talking OpenSolaris (but many things apply to Solaris as well). 1) No roadmap (do you have seen one recently) Has been mentioned many times here: Oracle has a policy of NEVER publishing roadmaps. So, that fact, that you did not SEE any roadmap does not mean, that there is no such roadmap... Anyone of the engineers or people inside Oracle talking to stuff on those roadmaps are under the threat of being thrown out immediately. So, sorry, get used to that fact... Just as a clarification, Oracle does have a set of roadmaps that it regularly makes available to customers as part of an NDA. If you wish to see further down the line, your best bet is starting with a sale representative. Glynn ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Register: Solaris, OpenSolaris, and the Oracle wall of secrecy
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06/21/oracle_opensolaris_solaris_plans/ I'm not saying this is complete or accurate. All I'm saying is that people with $$ are probably noticing and not appreciating the silence. Again, probably none of the Oracle employees reading these lists/forums have the authority to change this; talk to the folks on commission, or if you have the connections to get Larry to listen personally, go for it. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Open Solaris going the way of the Amiga
+1 So we no longer do. The obvious solution to the new order. I know for certain that this has cost Oracle projects in the millions. Larry could care less, however, as long as Oracle can continue pulling in projects worth tens/hundreds of millions. Oracle's the new law in town. Cowboy up and get over it. At least until Safra's connections in the oriental banking industry become exhausted. Imho what's needed, as previously alluded to elsewhere, is an emancipated community reference release that embraces commonly accepted best practice open source engineering and release processes, e.g. the *BSD's release, stable, and current, and turn OpenSolaris into a REAL open source project. Why doesn't this happen? In large part because some with more commercial than altruistic motivations fear loosing both Oracle's blessing and funding support. Ironically, IF an emancipated OpenSolaris that became legitimate open source project very likely WOULD attract the attention of other commercial supporters, e.g. along lines of apache foundation, X.org, Gnome, etc. The Linux model is NOT correct for this - as it will only serve to have many fragmented distro's, sporting Linux's same level of bugginess and brokenness. Speaking of ironic, I think this is precisely what Oracle hopes for. What's needed instead is an emancipated community driven reference implementation. Other efforts such as Milax, Nexenta, Belenix, etc. may also have their place but there should be one ring to bind them all to standard reference. Much like Apache Tomcat is the reference servlet container. Or maybe not. But one thing for sure is that if OS is to survive as community driven open source project, then emancipation from Snorkel is job #1. The proof having been in the pudding for months now. Hanging around out of personal interest though, as I still have 2009.06 running on my workstation. But that's it. My $0.02, offered in the vein of constructive criticism. Nothing but respect for the Sun dev heads that have brought OpenSolaris this far. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Open Solaris going the way of the Amiga
On 06/30/10 12:40 PM, Glynn Foster wrote: On 29/06/2010, at 9:22 PM, Matthias Pfützner wrote: You (Giovanni) wrote: I really do hope it it like you say. Nevertheless, I have t say it is very difficult to work this way. I am talking OpenSolaris (but many things apply to Solaris as well). 1) No roadmap (do you have seen one recently) Has been mentioned many times here: Oracle has a policy of NEVER publishing roadmaps. So, that fact, that you did not SEE any roadmap does not mean, that there is no such roadmap... Anyone of the engineers or people inside Oracle talking to stuff on those roadmaps are under the threat of being thrown out immediately. So, sorry, get used to that fact... Just as a clarification, Oracle does have a set of roadmaps that it regularly makes available to customers as part of an NDA. If you wish to see further down the line, your best bet is starting with a sale representative. Maybe, but an NDA is orthogonal to the principals of an open source project. Maybe the problem facing OpenSolaris is the understandable perceived need for NDAs for commercial Solaris conflicting with the desired openness of OpenSolaris. If OpenSolaris is to freed into Solaris next and Solaris next is covered by an NDA -- Ian. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Move the network related configuration file on Solaris10 but not go into effect
Hello, Our customer said after he moved the file /etc/hostname.ce0 to /etc/hostname.ce0_bak_20100628 on Solaris 10,the ip address which originally tied to the ce0 still take effect upon OS reset(that is,it can be seen in ifconfig -a output and still be configured on ce0 interface),why ? The similar issue wouldn't appear on Solaris 9. Thanks. Regards, Simon ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Move the network related configuration file on Solaris10 but not go into effect
Hot damn - a thread that is actually related to OpenSolaris code !!! :-) Given the difficulties in enumerating all the potential suffixes for what could go after the hostname. part of the filename, I'd bet that the code simply looks for a wildcard like hostname.*. If so, renaming the file to BACKUP.20100628.hostname.ce0 might be worth a try... -John 2010/6/29 Simon Yuan simon@gmail.com Hello, Our customer said after he moved the file /etc/hostname.ce0 to /etc/hostname.ce0_bak_20100628 on Solaris 10,the ip address which originally tied to the ce0 still take effect upon OS reset(that is,it can be seen in ifconfig -a output and still be configured on ce0 interface),why ? The similar issue wouldn't appear on Solaris 9. Thanks. Regards, Simon ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Move the network related configuration file on Solaris10 but not go into effect
Really ? if so, I think there would be a big bug,anyone else can help confirm this ? Thanks. Simon On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 11:10 AM, John Plocher john.ploc...@gmail.comwrote: Hot damn - a thread that is actually related to OpenSolaris code !!! :-) Given the difficulties in enumerating all the potential suffixes for what could go after the hostname. part of the filename, I'd bet that the code simply looks for a wildcard like hostname.*. If so, renaming the file to BACKUP.20100628.hostname.ce0 might be worth a try... -John 2010/6/29 Simon Yuan simon@gmail.com Hello, Our customer said after he moved the file /etc/hostname.ce0 to /etc/hostname.ce0_bak_20100628 on Solaris 10,the ip address which originally tied to the ce0 still take effect upon OS reset(that is,it can be seen in ifconfig -a output and still be configured on ce0 interface),why ? The similar issue wouldn't appear on Solaris 9. Thanks. Regards, Simon ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Oracle has Linux video codecs, so codecs for OSOL?
The last time I tried, MPlayer, the best video player IMO, which comes with all the video codecs you might need Did you manage to play OGG video with mplayer on OpenSolaris smoothly? For some reason, it doesn't play it good. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Oracle has Linux video codecs, so codecs for OSOL?
To Herzen this If you use OpenSolaris, you should know how to build applications from source. is a presumptuous assumption. Just because people use and Operating System/Environment does not mean they have vast technical expertise. Some people are just hobbyists that like to try out or use different things. This is why I really am tired of the high roller attitudes that come with geek playgrounds I use the term geek because I classify myself as one also so I take your attitude as a black mark against who I am and how people should be treated. This whole forum needs to release its elitist attitude when it comes to replying to and giving guidance to others that need help or just want questions answered. I believe it has to come from the Top down so the moderators, engineers, and the community folks have to work on applying a little personality adjustment for the sake of group. I know there are many other people thinking the same thing, but I will state the obvious for them. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Open Solaris going the way of the Amiga
The obvious solution to this problem is to remove the Open from the name Solaris and we would not have an issue at all. This is the reason there are issues, keep the source code with the OpenSolaris name and the binary distro should be renamed Solaris Next pre-beta or something of the sort. People would then not confuse that the binary distro is in the hands of Oracle and is subject to the needs and schedule of their liking. The OGB should really think about this and bring it up to the Oracle management to see if this could alleviate some confusion and establish a line of demarcation when it comes to knowing who in charge of what. Yes NDA's are not good for an open community project but the company reserves the right to NDA the binary distro, but we should be allowed to have updates to non closed bits, which we do if you know where to look. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Move the network related configuration file on Solaris10 but not go into effect
Have you Network Auto-Magic, aka NWAM, disabled? -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Open Solaris going the way of the Amiga
On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 9:59 PM, me bsdphrea...@yahoo.com wrote: The OGB should really think about this We did, almost 3 years ago Since Oracle owns the trademarks (OpenSolaris *and* Solaris...), they can do whatever they wish with them. See http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Main/trademark -John ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
