RE: Blazor popularity and use

[Dr Greg Low via ozdotnet]

Thanks David. I’ve got a meeting today with a guy who’s the Principal Software 
Engineering Manager for Learn.

I’ll see how that goes and report back.

I suspect a key issue is that you still can’t have an M365 email address for 
your certification profile and that only MSAs work. If so, that would continue 
to be crazy stuff, and should have been resolved long ago.

Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile
SQL Down Under | Web: https://sqldownunder.com<https://sqldownunder.com/> | 
About Greg:  https://about.me/greg.low

From: David Kean 
Sent: Friday, September 8, 2023 11:02 PM
To: ozDotNet 
Cc: David Connors ; Dr Greg Low 
Subject: RE: Blazor popularity and use

Greg can you forward me some context? Can’t promise anything, but I probably 
have a better chance of landing on the right person’s desk.

From: Dr Greg Low via ozdotnet 
mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>>
Sent: Friday, September 8, 2023 2:24 PM
To: ozDotNet mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>>
Cc: David Connors mailto:da...@connors.com>>; Greg Low 
mailto:g...@sqldownunder.com>>
Subject: RE: Blazor popularity and use

Agreed, but being one of the people who periodically need to consume many 
Microsoft internal apps and web sites, I will just have to differ on how 
effective I find them I’ve been so frustrated by some of the ones I need to 
use, that I’ve volunteered to help fix them. It would be quicker for me to fix 
the app for them, than to need to interact with it.

But it’s Friday so:

My biggest issues are still around identity. I’m having yet another week 
struggling to work out how to sort out issues with Microsoft identities. I do 
not understand why this needs to be so hard.

I’ve dealt with Amazon for a very long time. To this day, I still use the same 
identity I created when I first used them, and it works for all services that I 
purchase from them.
Same with Google. Same with Apple, etc.

But with Microsoft, I’ve been pushed into needing a string of identities over 
the years, with incompatible identity systems, incompatible Microsoft service 
requirements for identity, etc.

Why does this have to continue?

And the support for this in many areas has moved to forum-based support that is 
extremely poor. Here’s a fine example of “support” that I received yesterday:


[cid:image001.png@01D9E30B.B6BC9D20]

I’ve been trying to work out if that’s the worst “support” response I’ve ever 
received.

So, I then guessed that I needed to contact MCP support, instead of MCT support 
(as clearly they don’t have a clue, even though they are closely associated), 
and today I woke up to:

A moderator has deleted a thread you were following, How do I change my email 
address on my certification profile?. It's possible that the thread was off 
topic, violated the Code of Conduct, or was just a duplicate thread.


I have no idea what the issue was as they’d already deleted the thread. It 
might be because I’m asking how to change the email address, and they assume 
that’s a duplicate. But I can’t find any previous discussion now, apart from 
changing it via the Learn profile, which clearly doesn’t work.

I don’t get why there isn’t some Microsoft VP screaming at people to fix it. I 
know I want to, and I’m a calm person.

It’s gone on way too long.

Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile
SQL Down Under | Web: https://sqldownunder.com<https://sqldownunder.com/> | 
About Greg:  https://about.me/greg.low

From: David Connors via ozdotnet 
mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>>
Sent: Friday, September 8, 2023 1:55 PM
To: ozDotNet mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>>
Cc: David Connors mailto:da...@connors.com>>
Subject: Re: Blazor popularity and use

On Fri, 8 Sept 2023 at 13:44, Dr Greg Low 
mailto:g...@sqldownunder.com>> wrote:
Yep, we talk about browsers like there’s consistency there. There still isn’t. 
And it’s a huge hit on productivity. I see so much lost effort trying to align 
pixels across different browsers, different versions of browsers, etc. It’s 
just silly.

I remember being on a web app project. I was doing the data bits, and there 
were 10 devs doing the web parts.

After 6 months, I looked at what the other 10 had produced and knew I could 
have built that myself in a winform app in a fortnight, by myself.

This is probably more down to approach. If they were building from scratch by 
themselves, then I agree, productivity will be terrible; however on the flip 
side, you have to remember that 80+% of the cost of software is after the code 
is written and in the support phase. For our internal apps, we use a commercial 
off the shelf theme and a couple of other components and stick with those. The 
consistency of UI layout, responsiveness across form factors etc is all done 
very cost effectively by using something like: 
https://angular-material.fusetheme.com/dashboards/project - best $700 you'll 
ever spe

Re: Blazor popularity and use

[DotNet Dude via ozdotnet]

I recall reading somewhere last night there are around 25k Blazor apps in
the wild (Internet facing I assume) whereas React has over 11 million (?).
Don’t know about the accuracy of that but that may explain why the original
poster cannot see any advertised jobs

On Fri, 8 Sep 2023 at 23:58, Nathan Schultz via ozdotnet <
ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote:

> I've only used Blazor on pet projects, and have been happy with the
> results.
> But our workplace is more back-end processing, and we use OutSystems to
> quickly knock together back-office SPAs. And the business has been very
> happy with that, so I don't see us moving to Blazor in the future.
>
> "I've never met a living person who uses Flutter, or the Dart language for
> that matter. It would be a brave decision to choose that as a development
> platform for the future."
>
> Ironically one of my C# devs is a moderator on the official Flutter
> Discord server. Mobile apps is where Flutter really shines (and in the
> demos I've seen and when I played around with it, it is quite impressive).
> It came after Xamarin and it's clear that Google learned from Xamarin's
> mistakes. As for Dart, they've borrowed a lot from C# so it doesn't have a
> hugely steep learning curve. With a cheat-sheet you can get effective
> fairly quickly.
> But IMHO it's a niche language in an ecosystem and so it competes more
> with Swift/Objective-C (although Google would not agree).
> They've got some nice ideas, but it doesn't have any compelling reason to
> move to it, and I don't see it being a safe bet for the future.
>
> As for Javascript, people forget that it isn't a W3C standard. It was the
> language of Netscape -> Mozilla foundation. And thus became the default
> language in the browser.
> Scott Koon famously said, "JavaScript won by default. People wanted to
> build better web applications. Programming against Flash movies
> sucked. Javascript was already in all the browsers. If you're the last man
> left on earth, it doesn't matter how ugly you are when the women come to
> re-populate the planet."
> But because it was the Lingua Franca it's not going away, even though the
> W3C opened the doors to everyone else with WebAssembly.
>
> On Fri, 8 Sept 2023 at 11:13, Greg Keogh via ozdotnet <
> ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote:
>
>> If demand *for SSW* to use Blazor is overtaking JS, then I'd believe it.
>> I saw the statement made.
>>
>> I've never met a living person who uses Flutter, or the Dart language for
>> that matter. It would be a brave decision to choose that as a development
>> platform for the future.
>>
>> Does MAUI generate browser hosted web apps? I didn't think it was made
>> for that purpose, but maybe it does. I haven't looked yet.
>>
>> If you don't want to use a JavaScript framework, then Webassembly is the
>> future. I see there is a proposal to take JavaScript out of the stack so
>> that Wasm can talk directly to the browser DOM, which I think would be a
>> great leap forward because the JS layer is an utterly useless link in the
>> chain. Then we can finally consign JavaScript to the rubbish bin of history
>> where it belongs.
>>
>> *GK*
>>
>> On Fri, 8 Sept 2023 at 12:47, Tony Wright via ozdotnet <
>> ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I agree. React demand is far higher than any other front end framework
>>> as far as I can see. Angular ticks all the corporate governance boxes but
>>> it is so unwieldy and requires so much boilerplate before getting to the
>>> business logic it has really lost the war. Most of it comes down to
>>> popularity. If something it discovered that it fast superior to everything
>>> else, you usually see it rocket up the list. Blazor doesn't seem to be
>>> doing that unfortunately. Vue should be more popular. NodeJs if you want a
>>> pure JavaScript approach. But if you don't want a JavaScript framework what
>>> choices do you have? .Net Maui? Flutter?
>>>
>>> On Fri, 8 Sep 2023, 12:31 pm DotNet Dude via ozdotnet, <
>>> ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote:
>>>
 I find it very hard to believe Blazor demand has overtaken JS. That’s
 an insane comment from Adam

 On Fri, 8 Sep 2023 at 12:05, Greg Keogh via ozdotnet <
 ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote:

> Is anyone here actively using Blazor on a decent sized project? I used
>> it for a while on my last contract but am unable to find new work 
>> anywhere
>> that uses Blazor, not a single one!
>
>
> Compared to server-side ASP.NET and JS Frameworks, Blazor is a gift
> from heaven .. well ... sort-of. Here's a Friday story.
>
> With the death of Silverlight, we had to replace an app with a quite
> rich UI with something else, what?! Like many people, I was spitting chips
> angry at the suggestion we must replace our Silverlight apps with HTML5
> apps. The idea that HTML+CSS+JS could replace a WPF-like rich web UI made
> me laugh and cry at the same time.
>
> Angular was really popular around 2018 so we 

Re: Blazor popularity and use

[Nathan Schultz via ozdotnet]

I've only used Blazor on pet projects, and have been happy with the results.
But our workplace is more back-end processing, and we use OutSystems to
quickly knock together back-office SPAs. And the business has been very
happy with that, so I don't see us moving to Blazor in the future.

"I've never met a living person who uses Flutter, or the Dart language for
that matter. It would be a brave decision to choose that as a development
platform for the future."

Ironically one of my C# devs is a moderator on the official Flutter Discord
server. Mobile apps is where Flutter really shines (and in the demos I've
seen and when I played around with it, it is quite impressive).
It came after Xamarin and it's clear that Google learned from Xamarin's
mistakes. As for Dart, they've borrowed a lot from C# so it doesn't have a
hugely steep learning curve. With a cheat-sheet you can get effective
fairly quickly.
But IMHO it's a niche language in an ecosystem and so it competes more with
Swift/Objective-C (although Google would not agree).
They've got some nice ideas, but it doesn't have any compelling reason to
move to it, and I don't see it being a safe bet for the future.

As for Javascript, people forget that it isn't a W3C standard. It was the
language of Netscape -> Mozilla foundation. And thus became the default
language in the browser.
Scott Koon famously said, "JavaScript won by default. People wanted to
build better web applications. Programming against Flash movies
sucked. Javascript was already in all the browsers. If you're the last man
left on earth, it doesn't matter how ugly you are when the women come to
re-populate the planet."
But because it was the Lingua Franca it's not going away, even though the
W3C opened the doors to everyone else with WebAssembly.

On Fri, 8 Sept 2023 at 11:13, Greg Keogh via ozdotnet 
wrote:

> If demand *for SSW* to use Blazor is overtaking JS, then I'd believe it.
> I saw the statement made.
>
> I've never met a living person who uses Flutter, or the Dart language for
> that matter. It would be a brave decision to choose that as a development
> platform for the future.
>
> Does MAUI generate browser hosted web apps? I didn't think it was made for
> that purpose, but maybe it does. I haven't looked yet.
>
> If you don't want to use a JavaScript framework, then Webassembly is the
> future. I see there is a proposal to take JavaScript out of the stack so
> that Wasm can talk directly to the browser DOM, which I think would be a
> great leap forward because the JS layer is an utterly useless link in the
> chain. Then we can finally consign JavaScript to the rubbish bin of history
> where it belongs.
>
> *GK*
>
> On Fri, 8 Sept 2023 at 12:47, Tony Wright via ozdotnet <
> ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote:
>
>> I agree. React demand is far higher than any other front end framework as
>> far as I can see. Angular ticks all the corporate governance boxes but it
>> is so unwieldy and requires so much boilerplate before getting to the
>> business logic it has really lost the war. Most of it comes down to
>> popularity. If something it discovered that it fast superior to everything
>> else, you usually see it rocket up the list. Blazor doesn't seem to be
>> doing that unfortunately. Vue should be more popular. NodeJs if you want a
>> pure JavaScript approach. But if you don't want a JavaScript framework what
>> choices do you have? .Net Maui? Flutter?
>>
>> On Fri, 8 Sep 2023, 12:31 pm DotNet Dude via ozdotnet, <
>> ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I find it very hard to believe Blazor demand has overtaken JS. That’s an
>>> insane comment from Adam
>>>
>>> On Fri, 8 Sep 2023 at 12:05, Greg Keogh via ozdotnet <
>>> ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote:
>>>
 Is anyone here actively using Blazor on a decent sized project? I used
> it for a while on my last contract but am unable to find new work anywhere
> that uses Blazor, not a single one!


 Compared to server-side ASP.NET and JS Frameworks, Blazor is a gift
 from heaven .. well ... sort-of. Here's a Friday story.

 With the death of Silverlight, we had to replace an app with a quite
 rich UI with something else, what?! Like many people, I was spitting chips
 angry at the suggestion we must replace our Silverlight apps with HTML5
 apps. The idea that HTML+CSS+JS could replace a WPF-like rich web UI made
 me laugh and cry at the same time.

 Angular was really popular around 2018 so we got an offer to write a JS
 replacement for $200/hr. I then decided to learn Angular and watched 5
 hours of a 10 hour Angular course, at which point I gave up and said f**k
 that s**t. Now what?

 Luckily, Blazor 0.9 was in preview around this time. I spent a whole
 Sunday afternoon experimenting with Blazor. By the end of the day I had
 quite a sophisticated hobby app working with only a few hundred lines of
 coding, thanks to the familiarity of using VS, C# and Razor 

RE: Blazor popularity and use

[David Kean via ozdotnet]

Greg can you forward me some context? Can’t promise anything, but I probably 
have a better chance of landing on the right person’s desk.

From: Dr Greg Low via ozdotnet 
Sent: Friday, September 8, 2023 2:24 PM
To: ozDotNet 
Cc: David Connors ; Greg Low 
Subject: RE: Blazor popularity and use

Agreed, but being one of the people who periodically need to consume many 
Microsoft internal apps and web sites, I will just have to differ on how 
effective I find them I’ve been so frustrated by some of the ones I need to 
use, that I’ve volunteered to help fix them. It would be quicker for me to fix 
the app for them, than to need to interact with it.

But it’s Friday so:

My biggest issues are still around identity. I’m having yet another week 
struggling to work out how to sort out issues with Microsoft identities. I do 
not understand why this needs to be so hard.

I’ve dealt with Amazon for a very long time. To this day, I still use the same 
identity I created when I first used them, and it works for all services that I 
purchase from them.
Same with Google. Same with Apple, etc.

But with Microsoft, I’ve been pushed into needing a string of identities over 
the years, with incompatible identity systems, incompatible Microsoft service 
requirements for identity, etc.

Why does this have to continue?

And the support for this in many areas has moved to forum-based support that is 
extremely poor. Here’s a fine example of “support” that I received yesterday:


[cid:image001.png@01D9E2A8.4E5EF790]

I’ve been trying to work out if that’s the worst “support” response I’ve ever 
received.

So, I then guessed that I needed to contact MCP support, instead of MCT support 
(as clearly they don’t have a clue, even though they are closely associated), 
and today I woke up to:

A moderator has deleted a thread you were following, How do I change my email 
address on my certification profile?. It's possible that the thread was off 
topic, violated the Code of Conduct, or was just a duplicate thread.


I have no idea what the issue was as they’d already deleted the thread. It 
might be because I’m asking how to change the email address, and they assume 
that’s a duplicate. But I can’t find any previous discussion now, apart from 
changing it via the Learn profile, which clearly doesn’t work.

I don’t get why there isn’t some Microsoft VP screaming at people to fix it. I 
know I want to, and I’m a calm person.

It’s gone on way too long.

Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile
SQL Down Under | Web: https://sqldownunder.com<https://sqldownunder.com/> | 
About Greg:  https://about.me/greg.low

From: David Connors via ozdotnet 
mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>>
Sent: Friday, September 8, 2023 1:55 PM
To: ozDotNet mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>>
Cc: David Connors mailto:da...@connors.com>>
Subject: Re: Blazor popularity and use

On Fri, 8 Sept 2023 at 13:44, Dr Greg Low 
mailto:g...@sqldownunder.com>> wrote:
Yep, we talk about browsers like there’s consistency there. There still isn’t. 
And it’s a huge hit on productivity. I see so much lost effort trying to align 
pixels across different browsers, different versions of browsers, etc. It’s 
just silly.

I remember being on a web app project. I was doing the data bits, and there 
were 10 devs doing the web parts.

After 6 months, I looked at what the other 10 had produced and knew I could 
have built that myself in a winform app in a fortnight, by myself.

This is probably more down to approach. If they were building from scratch by 
themselves, then I agree, productivity will be terrible; however on the flip 
side, you have to remember that 80+% of the cost of software is after the code 
is written and in the support phase. For our internal apps, we use a commercial 
off the shelf theme and a couple of other components and stick with those. The 
consistency of UI layout, responsiveness across form factors etc is all done 
very cost effectively by using something like: 
https://angular-material.fusetheme.com/dashboards/project - best $700 you'll 
ever spend.

If ease of development was our primary concern we would all be building 
Microsoft Access apps.

-- 
ozdotnet mailing list 
To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/ 

Re: Blazor popularity and use

[Tom Rutter via ozdotnet]

Same from my experience. For intranet apps the supported browsers are made
clear. Even for Internet facing apps the supported browsers are just the
main ones so I very rarely see issues at all, particularly with using stuff
like bootstrap etc.

On Fri, 8 Sep 2023 at 14:52, Craig vN via ozdotnet 
wrote:

> Unless you are required to deal with really old browsers (IE), then I just
> don't see this. I work on a site/app that has literally millions of users
> and we would spend less than 1% of the time on dealing with browser
> compatibility issues.
>
> On Fri, Sep 8, 2023 at 1:54 PM Dr Greg Low via ozdotnet <
> ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote:
>
>> Yep, we talk about browsers like there’s consistency there. There still
>> isn’t. And it’s a huge hit on productivity. I see so much lost effort
>> trying to align pixels across different browsers, different versions of
>> browsers, etc. It’s just silly.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
> ozdotnet mailing list
> To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/
-- 
ozdotnet mailing list 
To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/ 

Re: Blazor popularity and use

[Craig vN via ozdotnet]

Unless you are required to deal with really old browsers (IE), then I just
don't see this. I work on a site/app that has literally millions of users
and we would spend less than 1% of the time on dealing with browser
compatibility issues.

On Fri, Sep 8, 2023 at 1:54 PM Dr Greg Low via ozdotnet <
ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote:

> Yep, we talk about browsers like there’s consistency there. There still
> isn’t. And it’s a huge hit on productivity. I see so much lost effort
> trying to align pixels across different browsers, different versions of
> browsers, etc. It’s just silly.
>
>
>
>
-- 
ozdotnet mailing list 
To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/ 

RE: Blazor popularity and use

[Dr Greg Low via ozdotnet]

Yep, but the request that I raised was closed overnight.
A moderator has deleted a thread you were following, How do I change my email 
address on my certification profile?. It's possible that the thread was off 
topic, violated the Code of Conduct, or was just a duplicate thread.
Now they might think that’s a duplicate question, and it would be, if there was 
any way to see the outcome from other people who asked the same question. But 
every time, they take it off to a private discussion, and don’t report back on 
what was required.

So duplicate or not, any previous thread isn’t helpful. Apart from that, I 
really don’t understand why they would have deleted it. I did have one that I 
asked the MCT support people, instead of the MCP support people, but they made 
it clear, they have no clue on how to help. So that can’t be a duplicate either.

Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile
SQL Down Under | Web: https://sqldownunder.com<https://sqldownunder.com/> | 
About Greg:  https://about.me/greg.low

From: Tony Wright 
Sent: Friday, September 8, 2023 2:38 PM
To: ozDotNet 
Cc: David Connors ; Dr Greg Low 
Subject: Re: Blazor popularity and use

Hi Greg, you need to raise a generic request for a fix to your mcid on the 
certifications forum. I am dealing with it right now, and they are switching 
email addresses for me. After I raised the issue, they opened up a private 
message to get private info about my accounts. It's pretty much a 3 day process.
On Fri, 8 Sep 2023, 2:30 pm Dr Greg Low via ozdotnet, 
mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>> wrote:
Agreed, but being one of the people who periodically need to consume many 
Microsoft internal apps and web sites, I will just have to differ on how 
effective I find them I’ve been so frustrated by some of the ones I need to 
use, that I’ve volunteered to help fix them. It would be quicker for me to fix 
the app for them, than to need to interact with it.

But it’s Friday so:

My biggest issues are still around identity. I’m having yet another week 
struggling to work out how to sort out issues with Microsoft identities. I do 
not understand why this needs to be so hard.

I’ve dealt with Amazon for a very long time. To this day, I still use the same 
identity I created when I first used them, and it works for all services that I 
purchase from them.
Same with Google. Same with Apple, etc.

But with Microsoft, I’ve been pushed into needing a string of identities over 
the years, with incompatible identity systems, incompatible Microsoft service 
requirements for identity, etc.

Why does this have to continue?

And the support for this in many areas has moved to forum-based support that is 
extremely poor. Here’s a fine example of “support” that I received yesterday:


[cid:image001.png@01D9E25F.6ED9FA90]

I’ve been trying to work out if that’s the worst “support” response I’ve ever 
received.

So, I then guessed that I needed to contact MCP support, instead of MCT support 
(as clearly they don’t have a clue, even though they are closely associated), 
and today I woke up to:

A moderator has deleted a thread you were following, How do I change my email 
address on my certification profile?. It's possible that the thread was off 
topic, violated the Code of Conduct, or was just a duplicate thread.


I have no idea what the issue was as they’d already deleted the thread. It 
might be because I’m asking how to change the email address, and they assume 
that’s a duplicate. But I can’t find any previous discussion now, apart from 
changing it via the Learn profile, which clearly doesn’t work.

I don’t get why there isn’t some Microsoft VP screaming at people to fix it. I 
know I want to, and I’m a calm person.

It’s gone on way too long.

Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile
SQL Down Under | Web: https://sqldownunder.com<https://sqldownunder.com/> | 
About Greg:  https://about.me/greg.low

From: David Connors via ozdotnet 
mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>>
Sent: Friday, September 8, 2023 1:55 PM
To: ozDotNet mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>>
Cc: David Connors mailto:da...@connors.com>>
Subject: Re: Blazor popularity and use

On Fri, 8 Sept 2023 at 13:44, Dr Greg Low 
mailto:g...@sqldownunder.com>> wrote:
Yep, we talk about browsers like there’s consistency there. There still isn’t. 
And it’s a huge hit on productivity. I see so much lost effort trying to align 
pixels across different browsers, different versions of browsers, etc. It’s 
just silly.

I remember being on a web app project. I was doing the data bits, and there 
were 10 devs doing the web parts.

After 6 months, I looked at what the other 10 had produced and knew I could 
have built that myself in a winform app in a fortnight, by myself.

This is probably more down to approach. If they were building from scratch by 
themselves, then I agree, productivity will be terrible; however on th

Re: Blazor popularity and use

[Tony Wright via ozdotnet]

Hi Greg, you need to raise a generic request for a fix to your mcid on the
certifications forum. I am dealing with it right now, and they are
switching email addresses for me. After I raised the issue, they opened up
a private message to get private info about my accounts. It's pretty much a
3 day process.

On Fri, 8 Sep 2023, 2:30 pm Dr Greg Low via ozdotnet, 
wrote:

> Agreed, but being one of the people who periodically need to consume many
> Microsoft internal apps and web sites, I will just have to differ on how
> effective I find them I’ve been so frustrated by some of the ones I
> need to use, that I’ve volunteered to help fix them. It would be quicker
> for me to fix the app for them, than to need to interact with it.
>
>
>
> But it’s Friday so:
>
>
>
> My biggest issues are still around identity. I’m having yet another week
> struggling to work out how to sort out issues with Microsoft identities. I
> do not understand why this needs to be so hard.
>
>
>
> *I’ve dealt with Amazon for a very long time. To this day, I still use the
> same identity I created when I first used them, and it works for all
> services that I purchase from them.*
>
> *Same with Google. Same with Apple, etc.*
>
>
>
> But with Microsoft, I’ve been pushed into needing a string of identities
> over the years, with incompatible identity systems, incompatible Microsoft
> service requirements for identity, etc.
>
>
>
> Why does this have to continue?
>
>
>
> And the support for this in many areas has moved to forum-based support
> that is extremely poor. Here’s a fine example of “support” that I received
> yesterday:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I’ve been trying to work out if that’s the worst “support” response I’ve
> ever received.
>
>
>
> So, I then guessed that I needed to contact MCP support, instead of MCT
> support (as clearly they don’t have a clue, even though they are closely
> associated), and today I woke up to:
>
>
>
> *A moderator has deleted a thread you were following, How do I change my
> email address on my certification profile?. It's possible that the thread
> was off topic, violated the Code of Conduct, or was just a duplicate
> thread.*
>
>
>
> I have no idea what the issue was as they’d already deleted the thread. It
> might be because I’m asking how to change the email address, and they
> assume that’s a duplicate. But I can’t find any previous discussion now,
> apart from changing it via the Learn profile, which clearly doesn’t work.
>
>
>
> I don’t get why there isn’t some Microsoft VP screaming at people to fix
> it. I know I want to, and I’m a calm person.
>
>
>
> It’s gone on way too long.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> Dr Greg Low
>
>
>
> 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile
>
> SQL Down Under | Web: https://sqldownunder.com | About Greg:
> https://about.me/greg.low
>
>
>
> *From:* David Connors via ozdotnet 
> *Sent:* Friday, September 8, 2023 1:55 PM
> *To:* ozDotNet 
> *Cc:* David Connors 
> *Subject:* Re: Blazor popularity and use
>
>
>
> On Fri, 8 Sept 2023 at 13:44, Dr Greg Low  wrote:
>
> Yep, we talk about browsers like there’s consistency there. There still
> isn’t. And it’s a huge hit on productivity. I see so much lost effort
> trying to align pixels across different browsers, different versions of
> browsers, etc. It’s just silly.
>
>
>
> I remember being on a web app project. I was doing the data bits, and
> there were 10 devs doing the web parts.
>
>
>
> After 6 months, I looked at what the other 10 had produced and knew I
> could have built that myself in a winform app in a fortnight, by myself.
>
>
>
> This is probably more down to approach. If they were building from scratch
> by themselves, then I agree, productivity will be terrible; however on the
> flip side, you have to remember that 80+% of the cost of software is after
> the code is written and in the support phase. For our internal apps, we use
> a commercial off the shelf theme and a couple of other components and stick
> with those. The consistency of UI layout, responsiveness across form
> factors etc is all done very cost effectively by using something like:
> https://angular-material.fusetheme.com/dashboards/project - best $700
> you'll ever spend.
>
>
>
> If ease of development was our primary concern we would all be building
> Microsoft Access apps.
>
>
> --
> ozdotnet mailing list
> To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/
-- 
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To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/ 

RE: Blazor popularity and use

[Dr Greg Low via ozdotnet]

Agreed, but being one of the people who periodically need to consume many 
Microsoft internal apps and web sites, I will just have to differ on how 
effective I find them I’ve been so frustrated by some of the ones I need to 
use, that I’ve volunteered to help fix them. It would be quicker for me to fix 
the app for them, than to need to interact with it.

But it’s Friday so:

My biggest issues are still around identity. I’m having yet another week 
struggling to work out how to sort out issues with Microsoft identities. I do 
not understand why this needs to be so hard.

I’ve dealt with Amazon for a very long time. To this day, I still use the same 
identity I created when I first used them, and it works for all services that I 
purchase from them.
Same with Google. Same with Apple, etc.

But with Microsoft, I’ve been pushed into needing a string of identities over 
the years, with incompatible identity systems, incompatible Microsoft service 
requirements for identity, etc.

Why does this have to continue?

And the support for this in many areas has moved to forum-based support that is 
extremely poor. Here’s a fine example of “support” that I received yesterday:


[cid:image001.png@01D9E25F.6ED9FA90]

I’ve been trying to work out if that’s the worst “support” response I’ve ever 
received.

So, I then guessed that I needed to contact MCP support, instead of MCT support 
(as clearly they don’t have a clue, even though they are closely associated), 
and today I woke up to:

A moderator has deleted a thread you were following, How do I change my email 
address on my certification profile?. It's possible that the thread was off 
topic, violated the Code of Conduct, or was just a duplicate thread.


I have no idea what the issue was as they’d already deleted the thread. It 
might be because I’m asking how to change the email address, and they assume 
that’s a duplicate. But I can’t find any previous discussion now, apart from 
changing it via the Learn profile, which clearly doesn’t work.

I don’t get why there isn’t some Microsoft VP screaming at people to fix it. I 
know I want to, and I’m a calm person.

It’s gone on way too long.

Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile
SQL Down Under | Web: https://sqldownunder.com<https://sqldownunder.com/> | 
About Greg:  https://about.me/greg.low

From: David Connors via ozdotnet 
Sent: Friday, September 8, 2023 1:55 PM
To: ozDotNet 
Cc: David Connors 
Subject: Re: Blazor popularity and use

On Fri, 8 Sept 2023 at 13:44, Dr Greg Low 
mailto:g...@sqldownunder.com>> wrote:
Yep, we talk about browsers like there’s consistency there. There still isn’t. 
And it’s a huge hit on productivity. I see so much lost effort trying to align 
pixels across different browsers, different versions of browsers, etc. It’s 
just silly.

I remember being on a web app project. I was doing the data bits, and there 
were 10 devs doing the web parts.

After 6 months, I looked at what the other 10 had produced and knew I could 
have built that myself in a winform app in a fortnight, by myself.

This is probably more down to approach. If they were building from scratch by 
themselves, then I agree, productivity will be terrible; however on the flip 
side, you have to remember that 80+% of the cost of software is after the code 
is written and in the support phase. For our internal apps, we use a commercial 
off the shelf theme and a couple of other components and stick with those. The 
consistency of UI layout, responsiveness across form factors etc is all done 
very cost effectively by using something like: 
https://angular-material.fusetheme.com/dashboards/project - best $700 you'll 
ever spend.

If ease of development was our primary concern we would all be building 
Microsoft Access apps.

-- 
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To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/ 

Re: Blazor popularity and use

[Grant Maw via ozdotnet]

:" If ease of development was our primary concern we would all be building
Microsoft Access apps. "

You cannot be serious. "Ease of development" and "MS Access" do not belong
in the same sentence.

On Fri, 8 Sept 2023 at 14:13, David Connors via ozdotnet <
ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 8 Sept 2023 at 13:44, Dr Greg Low  wrote:
>
>> Yep, we talk about browsers like there’s consistency there. There still
>> isn’t. And it’s a huge hit on productivity. I see so much lost effort
>> trying to align pixels across different browsers, different versions of
>> browsers, etc. It’s just silly.
>>
>>
>>
>> I remember being on a web app project. I was doing the data bits, and
>> there were 10 devs doing the web parts.
>>
>>
>>
>> After 6 months, I looked at what the other 10 had produced and knew I
>> could have built that myself in a winform app in a fortnight, by myself.
>>
>
> This is probably more down to approach. If they were building from scratch
> by themselves, then I agree, productivity will be terrible; however on the
> flip side, you have to remember that 80+% of the cost of software is after
> the code is written and in the support phase. For our internal apps, we use
> a commercial off the shelf theme and a couple of other components and stick
> with those. The consistency of UI layout, responsiveness across form
> factors etc is all done very cost effectively by using something like:
> https://angular-material.fusetheme.com/dashboards/project - best $700
> you'll ever spend.
>
> If ease of development was our primary concern we would all be building
> Microsoft Access apps.
>
> --
> ozdotnet mailing list
> To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/
-- 
ozdotnet mailing list 
To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/ 

RE: Blazor popularity and use

[Dr Greg Low via ozdotnet]



Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile
SQL Down Under | Web: https://sqldownunder.com<https://sqldownunder.com/> | 
About Greg:  https://about.me/greg.low

From: Greg Keogh 
Sent: Friday, September 8, 2023 1:54 PM
To: Dr Greg Low 
Cc: ozDotNet ; David Connors 
Subject: Re: Blazor popularity and use

I'm glad I'm not the only grumpy old fart in here! -- GK

On Fri, 8 Sept 2023 at 13:44, Dr Greg Low 
mailto:g...@sqldownunder.com>> wrote:
Yep, we talk about browsers like there’s consistency there. There still isn’t. 
And it’s a huge hit on productivity. I see so much lost effort trying to align 
pixels across different browsers, different versions of browsers, etc. It’s 
just silly.

I remember being on a web app project. I was doing the data bits, and there 
were 10 devs doing the web parts.

After 6 months, I looked at what the other 10 had produced and knew I could 
have built that myself in a winform app in a fortnight, by myself.

But, no, they didn’t have to deal with “DLL-hell” from the thick clients.

Yet now, every time I open a VS project that I haven’t touched for a few 
months, I totally cringe. Instead of DLL-hell on deployment, I now usually have 
“dependency-hell” with multiple inconsistent updates to dependent frameworks. 
Sometimes I can’t even work out how to resolve it and must reimplement part of 
the code.

What we as an industry have done to productivity is tragic.

Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile
SQL Down Under | Web: https://sqldownunder.com<https://sqldownunder.com/> | 
About Greg:  https://about.me/greg.low

From: Greg Keogh via ozdotnet 
mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>>
Sent: Friday, September 8, 2023 1:30 PM
To: ozDotNet mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>>
Cc: David Connors mailto:da...@connors.com>>; Greg Keogh 
mailto:gfke...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: Blazor popularity and use

Sure, deploying a web app to a server is easier than distributing thick client 
updates to many recipients, but that's a lucky side-effect. I stand by my claim 
that the web browser is a woefully inadequate host for business applications. I 
even have an example from today ...

A Blazor app version update was published, with some small fixes and UI tweaks 
which required css changes. I get a report that some clients are seeing parts 
of the page squashed or the text is ugly mixed sizes. After some back-and-forth 
with suggested quick fixes, the only fix was to clear the browser cache and 
restart the browser, which is really irritating for non-technical clients. I'm 
sure there are ways around this problem, with special meta tags or similar 
tricks, but it's more hoops to jump through and a good example of just how 
crappy the web browser is for business use.

 -- Greg

On Fri, 8 Sept 2023 at 13:08, David Connors via ozdotnet 
mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>> wrote:


On Fri, 8 Sept 2023 at 12:06, Greg Keogh via ozdotnet 
mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>> wrote
I must end on a sad note. ASP.NET<http://ASP.NET>, Blazor, JS, or whatever, all 
finish-up rendering in a web browser. It's tragic that the ancient dumb web 
browser is now the only host for web apps, and that we must attempt to present 
serious business applications using HTML, CSS and JS. The web browser was 
invented so we could have flame wars and look at pictures of cats and porn, 
it's barely evolved since then and it's completely inadequate for rendering 
business applications. Sure it can, but look at the flaming hoops and all the 
weird quirks you have to jump through. Web development is in a lamentable state.

You have a short memory of what it was like deploying apps back when thick 
clients were the only option. Modern web has done more to streamline ops than 
anything else and reduced application deployment to pushing code to an app 
service and end-user deployment to pasting a link in an e-mail or IM.


--
ozdotnet mailing list
To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/
-- 
ozdotnet mailing list 
To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/ 

Re: Blazor popularity and use

[David Connors via ozdotnet]

On Fri, 8 Sept 2023 at 13:44, Dr Greg Low  wrote:

> Yep, we talk about browsers like there’s consistency there. There still
> isn’t. And it’s a huge hit on productivity. I see so much lost effort
> trying to align pixels across different browsers, different versions of
> browsers, etc. It’s just silly.
>
>
>
> I remember being on a web app project. I was doing the data bits, and
> there were 10 devs doing the web parts.
>
>
>
> After 6 months, I looked at what the other 10 had produced and knew I
> could have built that myself in a winform app in a fortnight, by myself.
>

This is probably more down to approach. If they were building from scratch
by themselves, then I agree, productivity will be terrible; however on the
flip side, you have to remember that 80+% of the cost of software is after
the code is written and in the support phase. For our internal apps, we use
a commercial off the shelf theme and a couple of other components and stick
with those. The consistency of UI layout, responsiveness across form
factors etc is all done very cost effectively by using something like:
https://angular-material.fusetheme.com/dashboards/project - best $700
you'll ever spend.

If ease of development was our primary concern we would all be building
Microsoft Access apps.
-- 
ozdotnet mailing list 
To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/ 

Re: Blazor popularity and use

[Greg Keogh via ozdotnet]

I'm glad I'm not the only grumpy old fart in here! -- *GK*

On Fri, 8 Sept 2023 at 13:44, Dr Greg Low  wrote:

> Yep, we talk about browsers like there’s consistency there. There still
> isn’t. And it’s a huge hit on productivity. I see so much lost effort
> trying to align pixels across different browsers, different versions of
> browsers, etc. It’s just silly.
>
>
>
> I remember being on a web app project. I was doing the data bits, and
> there were 10 devs doing the web parts.
>
>
>
> After 6 months, I looked at what the other 10 had produced and knew I
> could have built that myself in a winform app in a fortnight, by myself.
>
>
>
> But, no, they didn’t have to deal with “DLL-hell” from the thick clients.
>
>
>
> Yet now, every time I open a VS project that I haven’t touched for a few
> months, I totally cringe. Instead of DLL-hell on deployment, I now usually
> have “dependency-hell” with multiple inconsistent updates to dependent
> frameworks. Sometimes I can’t even work out how to resolve it and must
> reimplement part of the code.
>
>
>
> What we as an industry have done to productivity is tragic.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> Dr Greg Low
>
>
>
> 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile
>
> SQL Down Under | Web: https://sqldownunder.com | About Greg:
> https://about.me/greg.low
>
>
>
> *From:* Greg Keogh via ozdotnet 
> *Sent:* Friday, September 8, 2023 1:30 PM
> *To:* ozDotNet 
> *Cc:* David Connors ; Greg Keogh 
> *Subject:* Re: Blazor popularity and use
>
>
>
> Sure, deploying a web app to a server is easier than distributing thick
> client updates to many recipients, but that's a lucky side-effect. I stand
> by my claim that the web browser is a woefully inadequate host for business
> applications. I even have an example from today ...
>
>
>
> A Blazor app version update was published, with some small fixes and UI
> tweaks which required css changes. I get a report that some clients are
> seeing parts of the page squashed or the text is ugly mixed sizes. After
> some back-and-forth with suggested quick fixes, the only fix was to clear
> the browser cache and restart the browser, which is really irritating for
> non-technical clients. I'm sure there are ways around this problem, with
> special meta tags or similar tricks, but it's more hoops to jump through
> and a good example of just how crappy the web browser is for business use.
>
>
>
>  -- *Greg*
>
>
>
> On Fri, 8 Sept 2023 at 13:08, David Connors via ozdotnet <
> ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, 8 Sept 2023 at 12:06, Greg Keogh via ozdotnet <
> ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote
>
> I must end on a sad note. ASP.NET, Blazor, JS, or whatever, all finish-up
> rendering in a web browser. It's tragic that the ancient dumb web browser
> is now the only host for web apps, and that we must attempt to present
> serious business applications using HTML, CSS and JS. The web browser was
> invented so we could have flame wars and look at pictures of cats and porn,
> it's barely evolved since then and it's completely inadequate for rendering
> business applications. Sure it can, but look at the flaming hoops and all
> the weird quirks you have to jump through. Web development is in a
> lamentable state.
>
>
>
> You have a short memory of what it was like deploying apps back when thick
> clients were the only option. Modern web has done more to streamline ops
> than anything else and reduced application deployment to pushing code to an
> app service and end-user deployment to pasting a link in an e-mail or IM.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> ozdotnet mailing list
> To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/
>
>
-- 
ozdotnet mailing list 
To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/ 

Re: Blazor popularity and use

[Tony McGee via ozdotnet]

Not so fast, Stockholm syndrome is comfy sometimes 

https://world.hey.com/dhh/turbo-8-is-dropping-typescript-70165c01
https://devclass.com/2023/05/11/typescript-is-not-worth-it-for-developing-libraries-says-svelte-author-as-team-switches-to-javascript-and-jsdoc/

-T

On 8/09/2023 13:05, Greg Keogh via ozdotnet wrote:
Then we can finally consign JavaScript to the rubbish bin of history 
where it belongs.


/GK/
-- 
ozdotnet mailing list 
To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/ 

RE: Blazor popularity and use

[Dr Greg Low via ozdotnet]

Yep, we talk about browsers like there’s consistency there. There still isn’t. 
And it’s a huge hit on productivity. I see so much lost effort trying to align 
pixels across different browsers, different versions of browsers, etc. It’s 
just silly.

I remember being on a web app project. I was doing the data bits, and there 
were 10 devs doing the web parts.

After 6 months, I looked at what the other 10 had produced and knew I could 
have built that myself in a winform app in a fortnight, by myself.

But, no, they didn’t have to deal with “DLL-hell” from the thick clients.

Yet now, every time I open a VS project that I haven’t touched for a few 
months, I totally cringe. Instead of DLL-hell on deployment, I now usually have 
“dependency-hell” with multiple inconsistent updates to dependent frameworks. 
Sometimes I can’t even work out how to resolve it and must reimplement part of 
the code.

What we as an industry have done to productivity is tragic.

Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile
SQL Down Under | Web: https://sqldownunder.com<https://sqldownunder.com/> | 
About Greg:  https://about.me/greg.low

From: Greg Keogh via ozdotnet 
Sent: Friday, September 8, 2023 1:30 PM
To: ozDotNet 
Cc: David Connors ; Greg Keogh 
Subject: Re: Blazor popularity and use

Sure, deploying a web app to a server is easier than distributing thick client 
updates to many recipients, but that's a lucky side-effect. I stand by my claim 
that the web browser is a woefully inadequate host for business applications. I 
even have an example from today ...

A Blazor app version update was published, with some small fixes and UI tweaks 
which required css changes. I get a report that some clients are seeing parts 
of the page squashed or the text is ugly mixed sizes. After some back-and-forth 
with suggested quick fixes, the only fix was to clear the browser cache and 
restart the browser, which is really irritating for non-technical clients. I'm 
sure there are ways around this problem, with special meta tags or similar 
tricks, but it's more hoops to jump through and a good example of just how 
crappy the web browser is for business use.

 -- Greg

On Fri, 8 Sept 2023 at 13:08, David Connors via ozdotnet 
mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>> wrote:


On Fri, 8 Sept 2023 at 12:06, Greg Keogh via ozdotnet 
mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>> wrote
I must end on a sad note. ASP.NET<http://ASP.NET>, Blazor, JS, or whatever, all 
finish-up rendering in a web browser. It's tragic that the ancient dumb web 
browser is now the only host for web apps, and that we must attempt to present 
serious business applications using HTML, CSS and JS. The web browser was 
invented so we could have flame wars and look at pictures of cats and porn, 
it's barely evolved since then and it's completely inadequate for rendering 
business applications. Sure it can, but look at the flaming hoops and all the 
weird quirks you have to jump through. Web development is in a lamentable state.

You have a short memory of what it was like deploying apps back when thick 
clients were the only option. Modern web has done more to streamline ops than 
anything else and reduced application deployment to pushing code to an app 
service and end-user deployment to pasting a link in an e-mail or IM.


--
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To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/
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Re: Blazor popularity and use

[David Connors via ozdotnet]

On Fri, 8 Sept 2023 at 13:30, Greg Keogh  wrote:

> Sure, deploying a web app to a server is easier than distributing thick
> client updates to many recipients, but that's a lucky side-effect. I stand
> by my claim that the web browser is a woefully inadequate host for business
> applications.
>

Pretty much every application is delivered on the web these days.

Even popular thick client apps are just web technologies built into a
binary. Looking over what I have open at the moment: Safari, Edge, Azure
Data Studio (built on electron), Teams (built on react), Discord (built on
electron), Microsoft TODO (???), Word/Excel/PPTX (C++/PAL).

David.
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RE: Blazor popularity and use

[Dr Greg Low via ozdotnet]

It was always about the IT people though, not the users.

Outlook as a web app is a good example. It has had enormous funds spent on 
producing it, likely far more than pretty much any other web app.

But shown the web app and the desktop app, users pick the desktop one pretty 
much every time.

Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile
SQL Down Under | Web: https://sqldownunder.com<https://sqldownunder.com/> | 
About Greg:  https://about.me/greg.low

From: David Connors via ozdotnet 
Sent: Friday, September 8, 2023 1:00 PM
To: ozDotNet 
Cc: David Connors 
Subject: Re: Blazor popularity and use



On Fri, 8 Sept 2023 at 12:06, Greg Keogh via ozdotnet 
mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>> wrote
I must end on a sad note. ASP.NET<http://ASP.NET>, Blazor, JS, or whatever, all 
finish-up rendering in a web browser. It's tragic that the ancient dumb web 
browser is now the only host for web apps, and that we must attempt to present 
serious business applications using HTML, CSS and JS. The web browser was 
invented so we could have flame wars and look at pictures of cats and porn, 
it's barely evolved since then and it's completely inadequate for rendering 
business applications. Sure it can, but look at the flaming hoops and all the 
weird quirks you have to jump through. Web development is in a lamentable state.

You have a short memory of what it was like deploying apps back when thick 
clients were the only option. Modern web has done more to streamline ops than 
anything else and reduced application deployment to pushing code to an app 
service and end-user deployment to pasting a link in an e-mail or IM.


-- 
ozdotnet mailing list 
To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/ 

Re: Blazor popularity and use

[Greg Keogh via ozdotnet]

Sure, deploying a web app to a server is easier than distributing thick
client updates to many recipients, but that's a lucky side-effect. I stand
by my claim that the web browser is a woefully inadequate host for business
applications. I even have an example from today ...

A Blazor app version update was published, with some small fixes and UI
tweaks which required css changes. I get a report that some clients are
seeing parts of the page squashed or the text is ugly mixed sizes. After
some back-and-forth with suggested quick fixes, the only fix was to clear
the browser cache and restart the browser, which is really irritating for
non-technical clients. I'm sure there are ways around this problem, with
special meta tags or similar tricks, but it's more hoops to jump through
and a good example of just how crappy the web browser is for business use.

 -- *Greg*

On Fri, 8 Sept 2023 at 13:08, David Connors via ozdotnet <
ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, 8 Sept 2023 at 12:06, Greg Keogh via ozdotnet <
> ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote
>
>> I must end on a sad note. ASP.NET, Blazor, JS, or whatever, all
>> finish-up rendering in a web browser. It's tragic that the ancient dumb web
>> browser is now the only host for web apps, and that we must attempt to
>> present serious business applications using HTML, CSS and JS. The web
>> browser was invented so we could have flame wars and look at pictures of
>> cats and porn, it's barely evolved since then and it's completely
>> inadequate for rendering business applications. Sure it can, but look at
>> the flaming hoops and all the weird quirks you have to jump through. Web
>> development is in a lamentable state.
>>
>
> You have a short memory of what it was like deploying apps back when thick
> clients were the only option. Modern web has done more to streamline ops
> than anything else and reduced application deployment to pushing code to an
> app service and end-user deployment to pasting a link in an e-mail or IM.
>
>
> --
> ozdotnet mailing list
> To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/
-- 
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Re: Blazor popularity and use

[Tony Wright via ozdotnet]

bwahaha, that just sounds like confirmation bias.

The reason SSW might be seeing more Blazor is because that is what they are
convincing their customers to use.

But in terms of what is really happening out there, there are some stats
around, such as the following:
Most used web frameworks among developers 2023 | Statista


As far as a client framework goes, it looks like React is the winner with
40+%. NodeJs is a server side framework so it doesn't really count. Angular
and Angular 1 together make up about 25%. Blazor is only about 5%.
Interestingly, ASP.NET and ASP.NET CORE make up about 30%



On Fri, Sep 8, 2023 at 1:13 PM Greg Keogh via ozdotnet <
ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote:

> If demand *for SSW* to use Blazor is overtaking JS, then I'd believe it.
> I saw the statement made.
>
> I've never met a living person who uses Flutter, or the Dart language for
> that matter. It would be a brave decision to choose that as a development
> platform for the future.
>
> Does MAUI generate browser hosted web apps? I didn't think it was made for
> that purpose, but maybe it does. I haven't looked yet.
>
> If you don't want to use a JavaScript framework, then Webassembly is the
> future. I see there is a proposal to take JavaScript out of the stack so
> that Wasm can talk directly to the browser DOM, which I think would be a
> great leap forward because the JS layer is an utterly useless link in the
> chain. Then we can finally consign JavaScript to the rubbish bin of history
> where it belongs.
>
> *GK*
>
> On Fri, 8 Sept 2023 at 12:47, Tony Wright via ozdotnet <
> ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote:
>
>> I agree. React demand is far higher than any other front end framework as
>> far as I can see. Angular ticks all the corporate governance boxes but it
>> is so unwieldy and requires so much boilerplate before getting to the
>> business logic it has really lost the war. Most of it comes down to
>> popularity. If something it discovered that it fast superior to everything
>> else, you usually see it rocket up the list. Blazor doesn't seem to be
>> doing that unfortunately. Vue should be more popular. NodeJs if you want a
>> pure JavaScript approach. But if you don't want a JavaScript framework what
>> choices do you have? .Net Maui? Flutter?
>>
>> On Fri, 8 Sep 2023, 12:31 pm DotNet Dude via ozdotnet, <
>> ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I find it very hard to believe Blazor demand has overtaken JS. That’s an
>>> insane comment from Adam
>>>
>>> On Fri, 8 Sep 2023 at 12:05, Greg Keogh via ozdotnet <
>>> ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote:
>>>
 Is anyone here actively using Blazor on a decent sized project? I used
> it for a while on my last contract but am unable to find new work anywhere
> that uses Blazor, not a single one!


 Compared to server-side ASP.NET and JS Frameworks, Blazor is a gift
 from heaven .. well ... sort-of. Here's a Friday story.

 With the death of Silverlight, we had to replace an app with a quite
 rich UI with something else, what?! Like many people, I was spitting chips
 angry at the suggestion we must replace our Silverlight apps with HTML5
 apps. The idea that HTML+CSS+JS could replace a WPF-like rich web UI made
 me laugh and cry at the same time.

 Angular was really popular around 2018 so we got an offer to write a JS
 replacement for $200/hr. I then decided to learn Angular and watched 5
 hours of a 10 hour Angular course, at which point I gave up and said f**k
 that s**t. Now what?

 Luckily, Blazor 0.9 was in preview around this time. I spent a whole
 Sunday afternoon experimenting with Blazor. By the end of the day I had
 quite a sophisticated hobby app working with only a few hundred lines of
 coding, thanks to the familiarity of using VS, C# and Razor markup (with a
 bit of JS). The same app in ASP.NET would have taken 5 times as long
 and 5 times the code. The same app in Angular would have required
 unfamiliar tooling and millions of lines of script.

 To answer your question, I have one quite complex Blazor app being used
 by some huge US companies to analyse marketing data (using Telerik and
 SpreadJS components to attempt to make charts and grids as fancy as was
 possible in Silverlight). I have a couple of smaller apps in live use, and
 few little ones for utility use.

 I know the guys at Melbourne App Development
  are really keen on Blazor and
 were using it for some serious apps just as it reached version 1.0. About
 18 months ago, Adam Cogan at SSW said during the preamble to one of their
 monthly presentations, that Blazor demand had overtaken JS.

 I hope other people in here have similar stories.

 I must end on a sad note. ASP.NET, Blazor, JS, or whatever, all
 

Re: Blazor popularity and use

[Greg Keogh via ozdotnet]

If demand *for SSW* to use Blazor is overtaking JS, then I'd believe it. I
saw the statement made.

I've never met a living person who uses Flutter, or the Dart language for
that matter. It would be a brave decision to choose that as a development
platform for the future.

Does MAUI generate browser hosted web apps? I didn't think it was made for
that purpose, but maybe it does. I haven't looked yet.

If you don't want to use a JavaScript framework, then Webassembly is the
future. I see there is a proposal to take JavaScript out of the stack so
that Wasm can talk directly to the browser DOM, which I think would be a
great leap forward because the JS layer is an utterly useless link in the
chain. Then we can finally consign JavaScript to the rubbish bin of history
where it belongs.

*GK*

On Fri, 8 Sept 2023 at 12:47, Tony Wright via ozdotnet <
ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote:

> I agree. React demand is far higher than any other front end framework as
> far as I can see. Angular ticks all the corporate governance boxes but it
> is so unwieldy and requires so much boilerplate before getting to the
> business logic it has really lost the war. Most of it comes down to
> popularity. If something it discovered that it fast superior to everything
> else, you usually see it rocket up the list. Blazor doesn't seem to be
> doing that unfortunately. Vue should be more popular. NodeJs if you want a
> pure JavaScript approach. But if you don't want a JavaScript framework what
> choices do you have? .Net Maui? Flutter?
>
> On Fri, 8 Sep 2023, 12:31 pm DotNet Dude via ozdotnet, <
> ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote:
>
>> I find it very hard to believe Blazor demand has overtaken JS. That’s an
>> insane comment from Adam
>>
>> On Fri, 8 Sep 2023 at 12:05, Greg Keogh via ozdotnet <
>> ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Is anyone here actively using Blazor on a decent sized project? I used
 it for a while on my last contract but am unable to find new work anywhere
 that uses Blazor, not a single one!
>>>
>>>
>>> Compared to server-side ASP.NET and JS Frameworks, Blazor is a gift
>>> from heaven .. well ... sort-of. Here's a Friday story.
>>>
>>> With the death of Silverlight, we had to replace an app with a quite
>>> rich UI with something else, what?! Like many people, I was spitting chips
>>> angry at the suggestion we must replace our Silverlight apps with HTML5
>>> apps. The idea that HTML+CSS+JS could replace a WPF-like rich web UI made
>>> me laugh and cry at the same time.
>>>
>>> Angular was really popular around 2018 so we got an offer to write a JS
>>> replacement for $200/hr. I then decided to learn Angular and watched 5
>>> hours of a 10 hour Angular course, at which point I gave up and said f**k
>>> that s**t. Now what?
>>>
>>> Luckily, Blazor 0.9 was in preview around this time. I spent a whole
>>> Sunday afternoon experimenting with Blazor. By the end of the day I had
>>> quite a sophisticated hobby app working with only a few hundred lines of
>>> coding, thanks to the familiarity of using VS, C# and Razor markup (with a
>>> bit of JS). The same app in ASP.NET would have taken 5 times as long
>>> and 5 times the code. The same app in Angular would have required
>>> unfamiliar tooling and millions of lines of script.
>>>
>>> To answer your question, I have one quite complex Blazor app being used
>>> by some huge US companies to analyse marketing data (using Telerik and
>>> SpreadJS components to attempt to make charts and grids as fancy as was
>>> possible in Silverlight). I have a couple of smaller apps in live use, and
>>> few little ones for utility use.
>>>
>>> I know the guys at Melbourne App Development
>>>  are really keen on Blazor and
>>> were using it for some serious apps just as it reached version 1.0. About
>>> 18 months ago, Adam Cogan at SSW said during the preamble to one of their
>>> monthly presentations, that Blazor demand had overtaken JS.
>>>
>>> I hope other people in here have similar stories.
>>>
>>> I must end on a sad note. ASP.NET, Blazor, JS, or whatever, all
>>> finish-up rendering in a web browser. It's tragic that the ancient dumb web
>>> browser is now the only host for web apps, and that we must attempt to
>>> present serious business applications using HTML, CSS and JS. The web
>>> browser was invented so we could have flame wars and look at pictures of
>>> cats and porn, it's barely evolved since then and it's completely
>>> inadequate for rendering business applications. Sure it can, but look at
>>> the flaming hoops and all the weird quirks you have to jump through. Web
>>> development is in a lamentable state.
>>>
>>> *Greg Keogh*
>>> --
>>> ozdotnet mailing list
>>> To manage your subscription, access archives:
>>> https://codify.mailman3.com/
>>
>> --
>> ozdotnet mailing list
>> To manage your subscription, access archives:
>> https://codify.mailman3.com/
>
> --
> ozdotnet mailing list
> To manage your subscription, access 

Re: Blazor popularity and use

[David Connors via ozdotnet]

On Fri, 8 Sept 2023 at 12:06, Greg Keogh via ozdotnet 
wrote

> I must end on a sad note. ASP.NET, Blazor, JS, or whatever, all finish-up
> rendering in a web browser. It's tragic that the ancient dumb web browser
> is now the only host for web apps, and that we must attempt to present
> serious business applications using HTML, CSS and JS. The web browser was
> invented so we could have flame wars and look at pictures of cats and porn,
> it's barely evolved since then and it's completely inadequate for rendering
> business applications. Sure it can, but look at the flaming hoops and all
> the weird quirks you have to jump through. Web development is in a
> lamentable state.
>

You have a short memory of what it was like deploying apps back when thick
clients were the only option. Modern web has done more to streamline ops
than anything else and reduced application deployment to pushing code to an
app service and end-user deployment to pasting a link in an e-mail or IM.
-- 
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To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/ 

Re: Blazor popularity and use

[David Connors via ozdotnet]

The only places I've ever heard of Blazor being used is .
microsoft.com and this mailing list.

We do Angular exclusively and see a lot of it in the wild from other dev at
our client sites.



On Fri, 8 Sept 2023 at 12:30, DotNet Dude via ozdotnet <
ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote:

> I find it very hard to believe Blazor demand has overtaken JS. That’s an
> insane comment from Adam
>
> On Fri, 8 Sep 2023 at 12:05, Greg Keogh via ozdotnet <
> ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote:
>
>> Is anyone here actively using Blazor on a decent sized project? I used it
>>> for a while on my last contract but am unable to find new work anywhere
>>> that uses Blazor, not a single one!
>>
>>
>> Compared to server-side ASP.NET and JS Frameworks, Blazor is a gift from
>> heaven .. well ... sort-of. Here's a Friday story.
>>
>> With the death of Silverlight, we had to replace an app with a quite rich
>> UI with something else, what?! Like many people, I was spitting chips angry
>> at the suggestion we must replace our Silverlight apps with HTML5 apps. The
>> idea that HTML+CSS+JS could replace a WPF-like rich web UI made me laugh
>> and cry at the same time.
>>
>> Angular was really popular around 2018 so we got an offer to write a JS
>> replacement for $200/hr. I then decided to learn Angular and watched 5
>> hours of a 10 hour Angular course, at which point I gave up and said f**k
>> that s**t. Now what?
>>
>> Luckily, Blazor 0.9 was in preview around this time. I spent a whole
>> Sunday afternoon experimenting with Blazor. By the end of the day I had
>> quite a sophisticated hobby app working with only a few hundred lines of
>> coding, thanks to the familiarity of using VS, C# and Razor markup (with a
>> bit of JS). The same app in ASP.NET would have taken 5 times as long and
>> 5 times the code. The same app in Angular would have required unfamiliar
>> tooling and millions of lines of script.
>>
>> To answer your question, I have one quite complex Blazor app being used
>> by some huge US companies to analyse marketing data (using Telerik and
>> SpreadJS components to attempt to make charts and grids as fancy as was
>> possible in Silverlight). I have a couple of smaller apps in live use, and
>> few little ones for utility use.
>>
>> I know the guys at Melbourne App Development
>>  are really keen on Blazor and
>> were using it for some serious apps just as it reached version 1.0. About
>> 18 months ago, Adam Cogan at SSW said during the preamble to one of their
>> monthly presentations, that Blazor demand had overtaken JS.
>>
>> I hope other people in here have similar stories.
>>
>> I must end on a sad note. ASP.NET, Blazor, JS, or whatever, all
>> finish-up rendering in a web browser. It's tragic that the ancient dumb web
>> browser is now the only host for web apps, and that we must attempt to
>> present serious business applications using HTML, CSS and JS. The web
>> browser was invented so we could have flame wars and look at pictures of
>> cats and porn, it's barely evolved since then and it's completely
>> inadequate for rendering business applications. Sure it can, but look at
>> the flaming hoops and all the weird quirks you have to jump through. Web
>> development is in a lamentable state.
>>
>> *Greg Keogh*
>> --
>> ozdotnet mailing list
>> To manage your subscription, access archives:
>> https://codify.mailman3.com/
>
> --
> ozdotnet mailing list
> To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/
-- 
ozdotnet mailing list 
To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/ 

Re: Blazor popularity and use

[Tony Wright via ozdotnet]

I agree. React demand is far higher than any other front end framework as
far as I can see. Angular ticks all the corporate governance boxes but it
is so unwieldy and requires so much boilerplate before getting to the
business logic it has really lost the war. Most of it comes down to
popularity. If something it discovered that it fast superior to everything
else, you usually see it rocket up the list. Blazor doesn't seem to be
doing that unfortunately. Vue should be more popular. NodeJs if you want a
pure JavaScript approach. But if you don't want a JavaScript framework what
choices do you have? .Net Maui? Flutter?

On Fri, 8 Sep 2023, 12:31 pm DotNet Dude via ozdotnet, <
ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote:

> I find it very hard to believe Blazor demand has overtaken JS. That’s an
> insane comment from Adam
>
> On Fri, 8 Sep 2023 at 12:05, Greg Keogh via ozdotnet <
> ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote:
>
>> Is anyone here actively using Blazor on a decent sized project? I used it
>>> for a while on my last contract but am unable to find new work anywhere
>>> that uses Blazor, not a single one!
>>
>>
>> Compared to server-side ASP.NET and JS Frameworks, Blazor is a gift from
>> heaven .. well ... sort-of. Here's a Friday story.
>>
>> With the death of Silverlight, we had to replace an app with a quite rich
>> UI with something else, what?! Like many people, I was spitting chips angry
>> at the suggestion we must replace our Silverlight apps with HTML5 apps. The
>> idea that HTML+CSS+JS could replace a WPF-like rich web UI made me laugh
>> and cry at the same time.
>>
>> Angular was really popular around 2018 so we got an offer to write a JS
>> replacement for $200/hr. I then decided to learn Angular and watched 5
>> hours of a 10 hour Angular course, at which point I gave up and said f**k
>> that s**t. Now what?
>>
>> Luckily, Blazor 0.9 was in preview around this time. I spent a whole
>> Sunday afternoon experimenting with Blazor. By the end of the day I had
>> quite a sophisticated hobby app working with only a few hundred lines of
>> coding, thanks to the familiarity of using VS, C# and Razor markup (with a
>> bit of JS). The same app in ASP.NET would have taken 5 times as long and
>> 5 times the code. The same app in Angular would have required unfamiliar
>> tooling and millions of lines of script.
>>
>> To answer your question, I have one quite complex Blazor app being used
>> by some huge US companies to analyse marketing data (using Telerik and
>> SpreadJS components to attempt to make charts and grids as fancy as was
>> possible in Silverlight). I have a couple of smaller apps in live use, and
>> few little ones for utility use.
>>
>> I know the guys at Melbourne App Development
>>  are really keen on Blazor and
>> were using it for some serious apps just as it reached version 1.0. About
>> 18 months ago, Adam Cogan at SSW said during the preamble to one of their
>> monthly presentations, that Blazor demand had overtaken JS.
>>
>> I hope other people in here have similar stories.
>>
>> I must end on a sad note. ASP.NET, Blazor, JS, or whatever, all
>> finish-up rendering in a web browser. It's tragic that the ancient dumb web
>> browser is now the only host for web apps, and that we must attempt to
>> present serious business applications using HTML, CSS and JS. The web
>> browser was invented so we could have flame wars and look at pictures of
>> cats and porn, it's barely evolved since then and it's completely
>> inadequate for rendering business applications. Sure it can, but look at
>> the flaming hoops and all the weird quirks you have to jump through. Web
>> development is in a lamentable state.
>>
>> *Greg Keogh*
>> --
>> ozdotnet mailing list
>> To manage your subscription, access archives:
>> https://codify.mailman3.com/
>
> --
> ozdotnet mailing list
> To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/
-- 
ozdotnet mailing list 
To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/ 

Re: Blazor popularity and use

[DotNet Dude via ozdotnet]

I find it very hard to believe Blazor demand has overtaken JS. That’s an
insane comment from Adam

On Fri, 8 Sep 2023 at 12:05, Greg Keogh via ozdotnet 
wrote:

> Is anyone here actively using Blazor on a decent sized project? I used it
>> for a while on my last contract but am unable to find new work anywhere
>> that uses Blazor, not a single one!
>
>
> Compared to server-side ASP.NET and JS Frameworks, Blazor is a gift from
> heaven .. well ... sort-of. Here's a Friday story.
>
> With the death of Silverlight, we had to replace an app with a quite rich
> UI with something else, what?! Like many people, I was spitting chips angry
> at the suggestion we must replace our Silverlight apps with HTML5 apps. The
> idea that HTML+CSS+JS could replace a WPF-like rich web UI made me laugh
> and cry at the same time.
>
> Angular was really popular around 2018 so we got an offer to write a JS
> replacement for $200/hr. I then decided to learn Angular and watched 5
> hours of a 10 hour Angular course, at which point I gave up and said f**k
> that s**t. Now what?
>
> Luckily, Blazor 0.9 was in preview around this time. I spent a whole
> Sunday afternoon experimenting with Blazor. By the end of the day I had
> quite a sophisticated hobby app working with only a few hundred lines of
> coding, thanks to the familiarity of using VS, C# and Razor markup (with a
> bit of JS). The same app in ASP.NET would have taken 5 times as long and
> 5 times the code. The same app in Angular would have required unfamiliar
> tooling and millions of lines of script.
>
> To answer your question, I have one quite complex Blazor app being used by
> some huge US companies to analyse marketing data (using Telerik and
> SpreadJS components to attempt to make charts and grids as fancy as was
> possible in Silverlight). I have a couple of smaller apps in live use, and
> few little ones for utility use.
>
> I know the guys at Melbourne App Development
>  are really keen on Blazor and were
> using it for some serious apps just as it reached version 1.0. About 18
> months ago, Adam Cogan at SSW said during the preamble to one of their
> monthly presentations, that Blazor demand had overtaken JS.
>
> I hope other people in here have similar stories.
>
> I must end on a sad note. ASP.NET, Blazor, JS, or whatever, all finish-up
> rendering in a web browser. It's tragic that the ancient dumb web browser
> is now the only host for web apps, and that we must attempt to present
> serious business applications using HTML, CSS and JS. The web browser was
> invented so we could have flame wars and look at pictures of cats and porn,
> it's barely evolved since then and it's completely inadequate for rendering
> business applications. Sure it can, but look at the flaming hoops and all
> the weird quirks you have to jump through. Web development is in a
> lamentable state.
>
> *Greg Keogh*
> --
> ozdotnet mailing list
> To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/
-- 
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To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/ 

Re: Blazor popularity and use

[Grant Maw via ozdotnet]

Yes, using it in a large project. Not hiring right now afaik though

On Fri, 8 Sept 2023, 11:17 am Tom Rutter via ozdotnet, <
ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote:

> Is anyone here actively using Blazor on a decent sized project? I used it
> for a while on my last contract but am unable to find new work anywhere
> that uses Blazor, not a single one!
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Tom
> --
> ozdotnet mailing list
> To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/
-- 
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To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/ 

Re: Blazor popularity and use

[Greg Keogh via ozdotnet]

>
> Is anyone here actively using Blazor on a decent sized project? I used it
> for a while on my last contract but am unable to find new work anywhere
> that uses Blazor, not a single one!


Compared to server-side ASP.NET and JS Frameworks, Blazor is a gift from
heaven .. well ... sort-of. Here's a Friday story.

With the death of Silverlight, we had to replace an app with a quite rich
UI with something else, what?! Like many people, I was spitting chips angry
at the suggestion we must replace our Silverlight apps with HTML5 apps. The
idea that HTML+CSS+JS could replace a WPF-like rich web UI made me laugh
and cry at the same time.

Angular was really popular around 2018 so we got an offer to write a JS
replacement for $200/hr. I then decided to learn Angular and watched 5
hours of a 10 hour Angular course, at which point I gave up and said f**k
that s**t. Now what?

Luckily, Blazor 0.9 was in preview around this time. I spent a whole Sunday
afternoon experimenting with Blazor. By the end of the day I had quite a
sophisticated hobby app working with only a few hundred lines of coding,
thanks to the familiarity of using VS, C# and Razor markup (with a bit of
JS). The same app in ASP.NET would have taken 5 times as long and 5 times
the code. The same app in Angular would have required unfamiliar tooling
and millions of lines of script.

To answer your question, I have one quite complex Blazor app being used by
some huge US companies to analyse marketing data (using Telerik and
SpreadJS components to attempt to make charts and grids as fancy as was
possible in Silverlight). I have a couple of smaller apps in live use, and
few little ones for utility use.

I know the guys at Melbourne App Development
 are really keen on Blazor and were
using it for some serious apps just as it reached version 1.0. About 18
months ago, Adam Cogan at SSW said during the preamble to one of their
monthly presentations, that Blazor demand had overtaken JS.

I hope other people in here have similar stories.

I must end on a sad note. ASP.NET, Blazor, JS, or whatever, all finish-up
rendering in a web browser. It's tragic that the ancient dumb web browser
is now the only host for web apps, and that we must attempt to present
serious business applications using HTML, CSS and JS. The web browser was
invented so we could have flame wars and look at pictures of cats and porn,
it's barely evolved since then and it's completely inadequate for rendering
business applications. Sure it can, but look at the flaming hoops and all
the weird quirks you have to jump through. Web development is in a
lamentable state.

*Greg Keogh*
-- 
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Re: Blazor popularity and use

[DotNet Dude via ozdotnet]

We tried it with one small client about two years ago and it went well but
couldn’t find any developers who wanted to use Blazor to expand to other
projects. We mainly use Angular now


On Fri, 8 Sep 2023 at 11:14, Tom Rutter via ozdotnet 
wrote:

> Is anyone here actively using Blazor on a decent sized project? I used it
> for a while on my last contract but am unable to find new work anywhere
> that uses Blazor, not a single one!
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
> Tom
> --
> ozdotnet mailing list
> To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/
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Re: Blazor popularity and use

[Dr Greg Low via ozdotnet]

Yes several clients doing so. Will report back if they need anyone.

Get Outlook for iOS

From: Tom Rutter via ozdotnet 
Sent: Friday, September 8, 2023 11:13:58 AM
To: ozDotNet 
Cc: Tom Rutter 
Subject: Blazor popularity and use

Is anyone here actively using Blazor on a decent sized project? I used it for a 
while on my last contract but am unable to find new work anywhere that uses 
Blazor, not a single one!

Thoughts?

Tom
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