RE: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...

[André van Deventer]

One thing I have been wondering about.

If a group of audiofiles are put in a room and not told what they are listening 
to, will they really be able to hear the difference between different formats 
of audio reproduction.

I always use the analogy of wine tasting.  If you are not told beforehand what 
you are drinking, will you really be able to taste the difference between what 
would be considered a good drinking wine at a reasonable price and  a so-called 
superior one with also a higher price tag?  I believe I once read about a group 
of wine tasters who were given different wines to taste  without them knowing 
what they were tasting.  And it turned out that in some cases  they actually 
enjoyed the cheaper wines more!

I like my red and dry white wine but I am in no way a expert.  I just like a 
good drinking wine that I can enjoy with good friends.

I knew a man once who spent thousands of dollars on the best audio equipment he 
could find at that time.  He could talk to you about the qualities of each of 
these superb systems.  But the interesting thing is that he had a very small 
record collection and had little knowledge of the music he listened to.  So he 
was listening more to the audio quality than the to the music itself.

I suspect that most individuals are like me and my wine drinking habits - you 
just need to enjoy what you are having.  In the end they want a decent sounding 
system with a lot of music to simply enjoy.  You don't want to listen to every 
finest nuance but want a decent sounding system for a decent  price.  After 
all, many of us listen to our favourite music when doing something around the 
house very often.  I believe in the end the enjoyment should be in the music 
with decent sound and not necessarily all kinds of fine points.  It is often 
happened to me that I was looking for a specific song or album and that I could 
only get it at a lower bitrate say 192 kbps.  I would then gladly take it while 
looking for it in another higher bitrate.  But in the meantime I will just 
enjoy  the music and be glad that I have it!

Please don't misunderstand me - I also like good sound out of my system - that 
is why I am getting the B mm-1 desktop speakers, but my main aim in listening 
to music is to enjoy the music!

So I lift my glaas of nice ordinary red wine  to all lovers of good music for 
the sake of music!

Andre



-Original Message-
From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of John Gurd
Sent: 14 February 2016 07:59 PM
To: 'PC Audio Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...

I don't think it's the case anymore that vinyl sounds better than digital music 
or even CD although I can remember a time when it did. I used to have a fairly 
large LP collection in the eighties and I was so disappointed when I bought my 
first CDs because they were so flat and lifeless with noticeably less detail. 
Since the turn of the century digital recording and production techniques have 
improved to the point that digital can capture the richness and detail of a 
performance.

Usually there's one serious and unnecessary exemption. Most digital recordings 
compress the relative loudness of instruments and vocals into one narrow band 
so that much of the dynamics of the music are lost. This technique isn't 
inherent to digital but is a production standard to make music easier to hear 
at any volume; it's more convenient for radio broadcasting and for compressing 
down into lossy formats. The exception is usually in the classical or jazz 
genres. Vinyl tends to escape this level of over production.

Having said that, digital HD recordings are some of the best recordings I've 
ever heard. This despite the fact I know I personally don't hear higher 
frequencies the way I used to when I was younger due to the natural roll-off as 
you get older. By the way, before anyone gets too smug, this process starts in 
your early twenties. Check out the Mosquito Anti-Loitering device for a device 
that works on the principle of an annoying sound that only teenagers can hear 
but the rest of us can't.

Just to go back to Dane's query about how to describe a high quality DAC, or 
any Hi Fidelity audio for that matter, I think it is about presence. The more 
an artist or piece of music sounds real, like you could almost reach out and 
touch it, like it's a performance and not just a recording, then the closer you 
are to pure audio quality. Sadly, at least for the wallet, this also depends on 
the other equipment you're using but the starting point has to be the source 
signal. There's no question the simplest and cheapest way to achieve this 
nowadays is via a good DAC headphone amp and a good set of headphones.

John

-Original Message-
From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Hamit Campos
Sent: 14 February 2016 14:09
To: 'PC Audio Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...

Ah yeah, that's true. I mean with the CD 

RE: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...

[Mary Otten]

Thanks, John. Tax filing time is coming, so I think I know where the
refund money is going. That sounds like a nice versatile device.

Mary

Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...

[hamitcampos]

It's Justt Apple being Apple according to Leo Laporte.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 14, 2016, at 6:01 PM, John Gurd  wrote:
> 
> Hi Mary
> 
> Yes, strange as it seems, there are two digital inputs. The USB A (the
> bigger one) is for the little lightning connector, and is exclusively for
> Apple IOS devices. The USB B (the small  slot) is for the little connecting
> cable which has a normal male USB A on the other end and is for Android USB
> On-The-Go devices or Windows or Apple PCs. 
> 
> There must be a technical reason why IOS devices need that dedicated USB,
> probably the same reason you need to use a camera to USB connector to
> connect an IOS device to the USB input of the Chord DAC. That's the way it
> is though.
> 
> John
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Mary
> Otten
> Sent: 14 February 2016 01:22
> To: PC Audio Discussion List
> Subject: Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...
> 
> Hi John,
> So this comes with a short cable that has a lightning connector on one end
> and usb on the other which plugs into the headphone amp? Is that what you
> were saying? I guess I'm not getting why you'd need two different inputs
> into the amp, one for androids and one for i-devices.
> I certainly understand that the lightning connector and a usb are different,
> but those are the outs on the devices providing the source audio. When I
> last had a portable amp with dac was with the old 30-pin connector, and I
> can't remember how the cabling worked with that thing, did I buy an extra
> cable or what? Getting old isn't for the faint of heart.
> 
> Mary 
> 
> Mary
> 
> 
> 

Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...

[hamitcampos]

Ah okay then, cool.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 14, 2016, at 6:05 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> The sound of an lp record is much smoother than a cd.
> If i could listen to classical music without cracles i would certainly use lp 
> records.
> /A
>> On 14 Feb 2016, at 06:04, Hamit Campos  wrote:
>> 
>> Interesting. I'm not sure I've ever heard an LP record. So can't judge. But 
>> it does raze the question my mind, how could it compare to 192 KHZ 24 bit 
>> LPCM?
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Dane 
>> Trethowan
>> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 9:53 PM
>> To: PC Audio Discussion List 
>> Subject: Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...
>> 
>> And that’s why so many people say the LP records “Sound” better than CD’S.
>> 
>>> On 14 Feb 2016, at 1:15 PM, Hamit Campos  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yeah and even though at 192 24 bit it's said that you capture more than you 
>>> can actually hear, it still is good to do so so you have all the data 
>>> points of your source.
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of 
>>> Dane Trethowan
>>> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 7:20 PM
>>> To: PC Audio Discussion List 
>>> Subject: Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...
>>> 
>>> Ah yes, hearing frequency’s makes all the difference though it mightn’t be 
>>> obvious at first glance, its those extra frequency information that give 
>>> the music the detail, the depth and the added excitement of the expanded 
>>> sound stage, if this weren’t the case the studios wouldn’t bother making 
>>> master recordings using 192K or above sampling and so on.
>>> 
>>> 
 On 14 Feb 2016, at 9:13 AM, Hamit Campos  wrote:
 
 Actually hearing does matter when it comes to frequencies. For 
 instance when on the Twit network HD audio is discussed, Leo Laporte 
 always points out that he can't really appreciate what higher sample 
 rate and bit death does for the music as well but as he always says 
 making fun of himself he has old ears. He's 58. So he says he can't 
 hear what a mid 20s dude might. Pluss since he's always been in Radio 
 and has had headphones on pretty loud he says that may have busted some of 
 his hearing too.
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of 
 Dane Trethowan
 Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 3:28 PM
 To: PC Audio Discussion List 
 Subject: Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...
 
 I don't knock people for having analogue systems or anything else and 
 you pretty much summed it up yourself when you talked about people 
 getting what they could afford to buy and that's fair enough as I'm 
 in that boat too however I do look around for the good audio and if 
 it means I have to save and wait? Well so be it and that attitude has 
 proven its worth beyond question.
 
 Yes an open mind is what's required but all this wasn't really the 
 point I was trying to make, I was asking the question how best to 
 describe the audio difference to someone between what you hear 
 through a DAC and most audio equipment and the difference is certainly 
 that of night and day.
 
 You don't need good hearing to distinguish the difference though 
 certainly you need some decent speakers or some reasonable 
 headphones, you're not going to notice all that much with your $2 
 earbuds which a lot of people are perfectly happy with.
 
 Its like MP3 files I guess, they're perfectly acceptable when you're 
 listening on the bus and so on but you soon notice the difference 
 when you start listening to music on CD'S and so on through 
 reasonable equipment and the difference is even more pronounced when you 
 turn on that DAC .
 
 
> On 14 Feb 2016, at 7:11 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Well, this is a good question as i am often very skeptical when hifi 
> nerds
 speak out their minds.
> I think that others might think of them as not very open minded.
> I am not a hifi nerd in my own perspective.
> But people know that i am very audio intrested and that i do want 
> good
 audio quality.
> TO be honest i don't hear some differences other might talk about 
> and
 people may or may not judge me for that or laugh at me for that but i 
 don't care.
> I think you should try to be very open minded and very very humble 
> and not
 critisize them for having their analog system for example.
> I know you do but maybe they do not think you are humble enough.
> We are talking about audio like an evangelist talks about Jesus.
> Its like a 

Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
I have problems on my left ear with the mid range.
But i have listened to much to Led Zepelin so that might be a problem *smile*.
/A
> On 13 Feb 2016, at 23:13, Hamit Campos  wrote:
> 
> Actually hearing does matter when it comes to frequencies. For instance when
> on the Twit network HD audio is discussed, Leo Laporte always points out
> that he can't really appreciate what higher sample rate and bit death does
> for the music as well but as he always says making fun of himself he has old
> ears. He's 58. So he says he can't hear what a mid 20s dude might. Pluss
> since he's always been in Radio and has had headphones on pretty loud he
> says that may have busted some of his hearing too.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Dane
> Trethowan
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 3:28 PM
> To: PC Audio Discussion List 
> Subject: Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...
> 
> I don't knock people for having analogue systems or anything else and you
> pretty much summed it up yourself when you talked about people getting what
> they could afford to buy and that's fair enough as I'm in that boat too
> however I do look around for the good audio and if it means I have to save
> and wait? Well so be it and that attitude has proven its worth beyond
> question.
> 
> Yes an open mind is what's required but all this wasn't really the point I
> was trying to make, I was asking the question how best to describe the audio
> difference to someone between what you hear through a DAC and most audio
> equipment and the difference is certainly that of night and day.
> 
> You don't need good hearing to distinguish the difference though certainly
> you need some decent speakers or some reasonable headphones, you're not
> going to notice all that much with your $2 earbuds which a lot of people are
> perfectly happy with.
> 
> Its like MP3 files I guess, they're perfectly acceptable when you're
> listening on the bus and so on but you soon notice the difference when you
> start listening to music on CD'S and so on through reasonable equipment and
> the difference is even more pronounced when you turn on that DAC .
> 
> 
>> On 14 Feb 2016, at 7:11 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> Well, this is a good question as i am often very skeptical when hifi nerds
> speak out their minds.
>> I think that others might think of them as not very open minded.
>> I am not a hifi nerd in my own perspective.
>> But people know that i am very audio intrested and that i do want good
> audio quality.
>> TO be honest i don't hear some differences other might talk about and
> people may or may not judge me for that or laugh at me for that but i don't
> care.
>> I think you should try to be very open minded and very very humble and not
> critisize them for having their analog system for example.
>> I know you do but maybe they do not think you are humble enough.
>> We are talking about audio like an evangelist talks about Jesus.
>> Its like a religion where evrything we might say is the very word.
>> /A
>>> 13 feb. 2016 kl. 20:02 skrev Dane Trethowan :
>>> 
>>> I have a question which someone might be able to give me some advice on.
>>> 
>>> I've been using DAC'S for nearly 3 years now and there's no doubt about
> it in my mind that they do truly enhance the music listening whether it be
> through a good pair of speakers or through headphones.
>>> 
>>> Okay fine so how do you tell someone just how good a DAC actually is when
> they're stuck in "The Analogue World" for want of a better description.
>>> 
>>> You tell them about your DAC and they say something like, "Yep but I've
> got this CD player or that Sound Card", fact is though that its still
> analogue and - unless you've gone out of your way to buy some top notch gear
> - and most people don't as they don't walk into Hi-Fi specialist shops -
> then they just have no idea what they're missing so how does one describe
> that in words?
>>> 
>>> The only really good description I can think of is that a DAC enhances
> and expands the sound stage - in other words you get far more detail of the
> music -, the instruments are heard as you've most likely never heard them
> before if you've been listening to analogue equipment.
>>> 
>>> I went looking for a DAC for someone last night and even I got a shock
> when I saw the prices they were selling for, one can buy a DAC which handles
> sampling rates from 32-96KHZ for $40 Australian, not the DAC for me given I
> have 192KHZ/24 Bit material here but its a good starting point.
>>> 
>>> I doubt whether it would come anywhere near my Rotel when it comes to
> performance and the like but again, a good starting point for anyone who
> wants to get into the DAC game.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 14/02/2016 5:49 AM, John Gurd wrote:
 Hi Mary
 
 I think you would notice a massive difference. I haven't 

RE: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...

[John Gurd]

Hi Mary

Yes, strange as it seems, there are two digital inputs. The USB A (the
bigger one) is for the little lightning connector, and is exclusively for
Apple IOS devices. The USB B (the small  slot) is for the little connecting
cable which has a normal male USB A on the other end and is for Android USB
On-The-Go devices or Windows or Apple PCs. 

There must be a technical reason why IOS devices need that dedicated USB,
probably the same reason you need to use a camera to USB connector to
connect an IOS device to the USB input of the Chord DAC. That's the way it
is though.

John

-Original Message-
From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Mary
Otten
Sent: 14 February 2016 01:22
To: PC Audio Discussion List
Subject: Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...

Hi John,
So this comes with a short cable that has a lightning connector on one end
and usb on the other which plugs into the headphone amp? Is that what you
were saying? I guess I'm not getting why you'd need two different inputs
into the amp, one for androids and one for i-devices.
I certainly understand that the lightning connector and a usb are different,
but those are the outs on the devices providing the source audio. When I
last had a portable amp with dac was with the old 30-pin connector, and I
can't remember how the cabling worked with that thing, did I buy an extra
cable or what? Getting old isn't for the faint of heart.

Mary 

Mary

Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
The sound of an lp record is much smoother than a cd.
If i could listen to classical music without cracles i would certainly use lp 
records.
/A
> On 14 Feb 2016, at 06:04, Hamit Campos  wrote:
> 
> Interesting. I'm not sure I've ever heard an LP record. So can't judge. But 
> it does raze the question my mind, how could it compare to 192 KHZ 24 bit 
> LPCM?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Dane 
> Trethowan
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 9:53 PM
> To: PC Audio Discussion List 
> Subject: Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...
> 
> And that’s why so many people say the LP records “Sound” better than CD’S.
> 
>> On 14 Feb 2016, at 1:15 PM, Hamit Campos  wrote:
>> 
>> Yeah and even though at 192 24 bit it's said that you capture more than you 
>> can actually hear, it still is good to do so so you have all the data points 
>> of your source.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of 
>> Dane Trethowan
>> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 7:20 PM
>> To: PC Audio Discussion List 
>> Subject: Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...
>> 
>> Ah yes, hearing frequency’s makes all the difference though it mightn’t be 
>> obvious at first glance, its those extra frequency information that give the 
>> music the detail, the depth and the added excitement of the expanded sound 
>> stage, if this weren’t the case the studios wouldn’t bother making master 
>> recordings using 192K or above sampling and so on.
>> 
>> 
>>> On 14 Feb 2016, at 9:13 AM, Hamit Campos  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Actually hearing does matter when it comes to frequencies. For 
>>> instance when on the Twit network HD audio is discussed, Leo Laporte 
>>> always points out that he can't really appreciate what higher sample 
>>> rate and bit death does for the music as well but as he always says 
>>> making fun of himself he has old ears. He's 58. So he says he can't 
>>> hear what a mid 20s dude might. Pluss since he's always been in Radio 
>>> and has had headphones on pretty loud he says that may have busted some of 
>>> his hearing too.
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of 
>>> Dane Trethowan
>>> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 3:28 PM
>>> To: PC Audio Discussion List 
>>> Subject: Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...
>>> 
>>> I don't knock people for having analogue systems or anything else and 
>>> you pretty much summed it up yourself when you talked about people 
>>> getting what they could afford to buy and that's fair enough as I'm 
>>> in that boat too however I do look around for the good audio and if 
>>> it means I have to save and wait? Well so be it and that attitude has 
>>> proven its worth beyond question.
>>> 
>>> Yes an open mind is what's required but all this wasn't really the 
>>> point I was trying to make, I was asking the question how best to 
>>> describe the audio difference to someone between what you hear 
>>> through a DAC and most audio equipment and the difference is certainly that 
>>> of night and day.
>>> 
>>> You don't need good hearing to distinguish the difference though 
>>> certainly you need some decent speakers or some reasonable 
>>> headphones, you're not going to notice all that much with your $2 
>>> earbuds which a lot of people are perfectly happy with.
>>> 
>>> Its like MP3 files I guess, they're perfectly acceptable when you're 
>>> listening on the bus and so on but you soon notice the difference 
>>> when you start listening to music on CD'S and so on through 
>>> reasonable equipment and the difference is even more pronounced when you 
>>> turn on that DAC .
>>> 
>>> 
 On 14 Feb 2016, at 7:11 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
 
 Hi!
 Well, this is a good question as i am often very skeptical when hifi 
 nerds
>>> speak out their minds.
 I think that others might think of them as not very open minded.
 I am not a hifi nerd in my own perspective.
 But people know that i am very audio intrested and that i do want 
 good
>>> audio quality.
 TO be honest i don't hear some differences other might talk about 
 and
>>> people may or may not judge me for that or laugh at me for that but i 
>>> don't care.
 I think you should try to be very open minded and very very humble 
 and not
>>> critisize them for having their analog system for example.
 I know you do but maybe they do not think you are humble enough.
 We are talking about audio like an evangelist talks about Jesus.
 Its like a religion where evrything we might say is the very word.
 /A
> 13 feb. 2016 kl. 20:02 skrev Dane Trethowan :
> 
> I have a question which someone might be able to give me some advice on.
> 

Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Hmm, then i missunderstood you.
Could you describe the audio as more real sounding or maybe more natural?
/A
> On 13 Feb 2016, at 21:27, Dane Trethowan  wrote:
> 
> I don’t knock people for having analogue systems or anything else and you 
> pretty much summed it up yourself when you talked about people getting what 
> they could afford to buy and that’s fair enough as I’m in that boat too 
> however I do look around for the good audio and if it means I have to save 
> and wait? Well so be it and that attitude has proven its worth beyond 
> question.
> 
> Yes an open mind is what’s required but all this wasn’t really the point I 
> was trying to make, I was asking the question how best to describe the audio 
> difference to someone between what you hear through a DAC and most audio 
> equipment and the difference is certainly that of night and day.
> 
> You don’t need good hearing to distinguish the difference though certainly 
> you need some decent speakers or some reasonable headphones, you’re not going 
> to notice all that much with your $2 earbuds which a lot of people are 
> perfectly happy with.
> 
> Its like MP3 files I guess, they’re perfectly acceptable when you’re 
> listening on the bus and so on but you soon notice the difference when you 
> start listening to music on CD’S and so on through reasonable equipment and 
> the difference is even more pronounced when you turn on that DAC .
> 
> 
>> On 14 Feb 2016, at 7:11 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> Well, this is a good question as i am often very skeptical when hifi nerds 
>> speak out their minds.
>> I think that others might think of them as not very open minded.
>> I am not a hifi nerd in my own perspective.
>> But people know that i am very audio intrested and that i do want good audio 
>> quality.
>> TO be honest i don’t hear some differences other might talk about and people 
>> may or may not judge me for that or laugh at me for that but i don’t care.
>> I think you should try to be very open minded and very very humble and not 
>> critisize them for having their analog system for example.
>> I know you do but maybe they do not think you are humble enough.
>> We are talking about audio like an evangelist talks about Jesus.
>> Its like a religion where evrything we might say is the very word.
>> /A
>>> 13 feb. 2016 kl. 20:02 skrev Dane Trethowan :
>>> 
>>> I have a question which someone might be able to give me some advice on.
>>> 
>>> I've been using DAC'S for nearly 3 years now and there's no doubt about it 
>>> in my mind that they do truly enhance the music listening whether it be 
>>> through a good pair of speakers or through headphones.
>>> 
>>> Okay fine so how do you tell someone just how good a DAC actually is when 
>>> they're stuck in "The Analogue World" for want of a better description.
>>> 
>>> You tell them about your DAC and they say something like, "Yep but I've got 
>>> this CD player or that Sound Card", fact is though that its still analogue 
>>> and - unless you've gone out of your way to buy some top notch gear - and 
>>> most people don't as they don't walk into Hi-Fi specialist shops - then 
>>> they just have no idea what they're missing so how does one describe that 
>>> in words?
>>> 
>>> The only really good description I can think of is that a DAC enhances and 
>>> expands the sound stage - in other words you get far more detail of the 
>>> music -, the instruments are heard as you've most likely never heard them 
>>> before if you've been listening to analogue equipment.
>>> 
>>> I went looking for a DAC for someone last night and even I got a shock when 
>>> I saw the prices they were selling for, one can buy a DAC which handles 
>>> sampling rates from 32-96KHZ for $40 Australian, not the DAC for me given I 
>>> have 192KHZ/24 Bit material here but its a good starting point.
>>> 
>>> I doubt whether it would come anywhere near my Rotel when it comes to 
>>> performance and the like but again, a good starting point for anyone who 
>>> wants to get into the DAC game.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 14/02/2016 5:49 AM, John Gurd wrote:
 Hi Mary
 
 I think you would notice a massive difference. I haven't heard the Oppo 
 PM3s
 but judging by the reviews they are certainly on a par with the P7s and
 would sound incredible with the HA-2.
 
 John
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Dane
 Trethowan
 Sent: 13 February 2016 18:03
 To: PC Audio Discussion List
 Subject: Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...
 
 Very definitely
 
> On 14 Feb 2016, at 5:01 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Interesting. I wonder if it would help the sound on my Nexus 6.
> Something should!
> 
> Oppo makes a pair of headphones that seem to be quite favorably
> reviewed, at least by amazon 

Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
No, magnetostatic is a new type of headphones.
Though i have no idea in what they mean by magnetostatic.
/A
> On 13 Feb 2016, at 21:20, Gary Schindler  wrote:
> 
> Do you mean electrostatic?
> 
> 
> -Original Message- From: Anders Holmberg
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 3:01 PM
> To: PC Audio Discussion List
> Subject: Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...
> 
> Hi!
> I wonder if they’re magnetostatic.
> /A
>> 13 feb. 2016 kl. 19:01 skrev Mary Otten :
>> 
>> Interesting. I wonder if it would help the sound on my Nexus 6.
>> Something should!
>> 
>> Oppo makes a pair of headphones that seem to be quite favorably
>> reviewed, at least by amazon purchasers. These are the pm-3, and they
>> sell for a cool 400 bucks, so not cheap. One reviewer even compared
>> them favorably with the P7.
>> 
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

RE: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...

[Hamit Campos]

Ah yeah, that's true. I mean with the CD there was the CD man. Though I'm not 
sure those ixist no more. I had a sony 1.

-Original Message-
From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Dane 
Trethowan
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2016 12:14 AM
To: PC Audio Discussion List 
Subject: Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...

Yep fair question.

You talked about those extra frequencies, an LP record - played on a reasonable 
turntable through a reasonable Hi-Fi setup exhibits some of those extra 
frequencies you would find in HD audio thus listeners often talk about the 
difference between CD and record.

As for me? Well if people want their LP records and so on then that’s fine but 
I prefer the convenience of CD or Hd Audio thanks - preferably HD audio - 
.


> On 14 Feb 2016, at 4:04 PM, Hamit Campos  wrote:
> 
> Interesting. I'm not sure I've ever heard an LP record. So can't judge. But 
> it does raze the question my mind, how could it compare to 192 KHZ 24 bit 
> LPCM?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of 
> Dane Trethowan
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 9:53 PM
> To: PC Audio Discussion List 
> Subject: Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...
> 
> And that’s why so many people say the LP records “Sound” better than CD’S.
> 
>> On 14 Feb 2016, at 1:15 PM, Hamit Campos  wrote:
>> 
>> Yeah and even though at 192 24 bit it's said that you capture more than you 
>> can actually hear, it still is good to do so so you have all the data points 
>> of your source.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of 
>> Dane Trethowan
>> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 7:20 PM
>> To: PC Audio Discussion List 
>> Subject: Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...
>> 
>> Ah yes, hearing frequency’s makes all the difference though it mightn’t be 
>> obvious at first glance, its those extra frequency information that give the 
>> music the detail, the depth and the added excitement of the expanded sound 
>> stage, if this weren’t the case the studios wouldn’t bother making master 
>> recordings using 192K or above sampling and so on.
>> 
>> 
>>> On 14 Feb 2016, at 9:13 AM, Hamit Campos  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Actually hearing does matter when it comes to frequencies. For 
>>> instance when on the Twit network HD audio is discussed, Leo Laporte 
>>> always points out that he can't really appreciate what higher sample 
>>> rate and bit death does for the music as well but as he always says 
>>> making fun of himself he has old ears. He's 58. So he says he can't 
>>> hear what a mid 20s dude might. Pluss since he's always been in 
>>> Radio and has had headphones on pretty loud he says that may have busted 
>>> some of his hearing too.
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of 
>>> Dane Trethowan
>>> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 3:28 PM
>>> To: PC Audio Discussion List 
>>> Subject: Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...
>>> 
>>> I don't knock people for having analogue systems or anything else 
>>> and you pretty much summed it up yourself when you talked about 
>>> people getting what they could afford to buy and that's fair enough 
>>> as I'm in that boat too however I do look around for the good audio 
>>> and if it means I have to save and wait? Well so be it and that 
>>> attitude has proven its worth beyond question.
>>> 
>>> Yes an open mind is what's required but all this wasn't really the 
>>> point I was trying to make, I was asking the question how best to 
>>> describe the audio difference to someone between what you hear 
>>> through a DAC and most audio equipment and the difference is certainly that 
>>> of night and day.
>>> 
>>> You don't need good hearing to distinguish the difference though 
>>> certainly you need some decent speakers or some reasonable 
>>> headphones, you're not going to notice all that much with your $2 
>>> earbuds which a lot of people are perfectly happy with.
>>> 
>>> Its like MP3 files I guess, they're perfectly acceptable when you're 
>>> listening on the bus and so on but you soon notice the difference 
>>> when you start listening to music on CD'S and so on through 
>>> reasonable equipment and the difference is even more pronounced when you 
>>> turn on that DAC .
>>> 
>>> 
 On 14 Feb 2016, at 7:11 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
 
 Hi!
 Well, this is a good question as i am often very skeptical when 
 hifi nerds
>>> speak out their minds.
 I think that others might think of them as not very open minded.
 I am not a hifi nerd in my own perspective.
 But people know that i am very audio intrested and that i do want 
 good
>>> audio quality.
 TO be honest i don't hear some differences 

RE: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...

[Hamit Campos]

Ah okay. Cool, thanks for the info. Like I said I've heard records, but not 
sure they were LPs.

-Original Message-
From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Les Gordon
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2016 12:41 AM
To: PC Audio Discussion List 
Subject: Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...

lp records are much more warmer sounding. the mids have more detail to them. 
digital is great for clearity but you do lose some warmth in the sound.

- Original Message - 
From: "Hamit Campos" 
To: "'PC Audio Discussion List'" 
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2016 12:04 AM
Subject: RE: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...


Interesting. I'm not sure I've ever heard an LP record. So can't judge. But 
it does raze the question my mind, how could it compare to 192 KHZ 24 bit 
LPCM?

-Original Message-
From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Dane 
Trethowan
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 9:53 PM
To: PC Audio Discussion List 
Subject: Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...

And that’s why so many people say the LP records “Sound” better than CD’S.

> On 14 Feb 2016, at 1:15 PM, Hamit Campos  wrote:
>
> Yeah and even though at 192 24 bit it's said that you capture more than 
> you can actually hear, it still is good to do so so you have all the data 
> points of your source.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of
> Dane Trethowan
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 7:20 PM
> To: PC Audio Discussion List 
> Subject: Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...
>
> Ah yes, hearing frequency’s makes all the difference though it mightn’t be 
> obvious at first glance, its those extra frequency information that give 
> the music the detail, the depth and the added excitement of the expanded 
> sound stage, if this weren’t the case the studios wouldn’t bother making 
> master recordings using 192K or above sampling and so on.
>
>
>> On 14 Feb 2016, at 9:13 AM, Hamit Campos  wrote:
>>
>> Actually hearing does matter when it comes to frequencies. For
>> instance when on the Twit network HD audio is discussed, Leo Laporte
>> always points out that he can't really appreciate what higher sample
>> rate and bit death does for the music as well but as he always says
>> making fun of himself he has old ears. He's 58. So he says he can't
>> hear what a mid 20s dude might. Pluss since he's always been in Radio
>> and has had headphones on pretty loud he says that may have busted some 
>> of his hearing too.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of
>> Dane Trethowan
>> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 3:28 PM
>> To: PC Audio Discussion List 
>> Subject: Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...
>>
>> I don't knock people for having analogue systems or anything else and
>> you pretty much summed it up yourself when you talked about people
>> getting what they could afford to buy and that's fair enough as I'm
>> in that boat too however I do look around for the good audio and if
>> it means I have to save and wait? Well so be it and that attitude has
>> proven its worth beyond question.
>>
>> Yes an open mind is what's required but all this wasn't really the
>> point I was trying to make, I was asking the question how best to
>> describe the audio difference to someone between what you hear
>> through a DAC and most audio equipment and the difference is certainly 
>> that of night and day.
>>
>> You don't need good hearing to distinguish the difference though
>> certainly you need some decent speakers or some reasonable
>> headphones, you're not going to notice all that much with your $2
>> earbuds which a lot of people are perfectly happy with.
>>
>> Its like MP3 files I guess, they're perfectly acceptable when you're
>> listening on the bus and so on but you soon notice the difference
>> when you start listening to music on CD'S and so on through
>> reasonable equipment and the difference is even more pronounced when you 
>> turn on that DAC .
>>
>>
>>> On 14 Feb 2016, at 7:11 AM, Anders Holmberg  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi!
>>> Well, this is a good question as i am often very skeptical when hifi
>>> nerds
>> speak out their minds.
>>> I think that others might think of them as not very open minded.
>>> I am not a hifi nerd in my own perspective.
>>> But people know that i am very audio intrested and that i do want
>>> good
>> audio quality.
>>> TO be honest i don't hear some differences other might talk about
>>> and
>> people may or may not judge me for that or laugh at me for that but i
>> don't care.
>>> I think you should try to be very open minded and very very humble
>>> and not
>> critisize them for having their analog system for example.
>>> I know you do but maybe they do not think you are 

RE: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...

[John Gurd]

I don't think it's the case anymore that vinyl sounds better than digital music 
or even CD although I can remember a time when it did. I used to have a fairly 
large LP collection in the eighties and I was so disappointed when I bought my 
first CDs because they were so flat and lifeless with noticeably less detail. 
Since the turn of the century digital recording and production techniques have 
improved to the point that digital can capture the richness and detail of a 
performance. 

Usually there's one serious and unnecessary exemption. Most digital recordings 
compress the relative loudness of instruments and vocals into one narrow band 
so that much of the dynamics of the music are lost. This technique isn't 
inherent to digital but is a production standard to make music easier to hear 
at any volume; it's more convenient for radio broadcasting and for compressing 
down into lossy formats. The exception is usually in the classical or jazz 
genres. Vinyl tends to escape this level of over production. 

Having said that, digital HD recordings are some of the best recordings I've 
ever heard. This despite the fact I know I personally don't hear higher 
frequencies the way I used to when I was younger due to the natural roll-off as 
you get older. By the way, before anyone gets too smug, this process starts in 
your early twenties. Check out the Mosquito Anti-Loitering device for a device 
that works on the principle of an annoying sound that only teenagers can hear 
but the rest of us can't. 

Just to go back to Dane's query about how to describe a high quality DAC, or 
any Hi Fidelity audio for that matter, I think it is about presence. The more 
an artist or piece of music sounds real, like you could almost reach out and 
touch it, like it's a performance and not just a recording, then the closer you 
are to pure audio quality. Sadly, at least for the wallet, this also depends on 
the other equipment you're using but the starting point has to be the source 
signal. There's no question the simplest and cheapest way to achieve this 
nowadays is via a good DAC headphone amp and a good set of headphones.

John

-Original Message-
From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Hamit Campos
Sent: 14 February 2016 14:09
To: 'PC Audio Discussion List'
Subject: RE: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...

Ah yeah, that's true. I mean with the CD there was the CD man. Though I'm not 
sure those ixist no more. I had a sony 1.

-Original Message-
From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of Dane 
Trethowan
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2016 12:14 AM
To: PC Audio Discussion List 
Subject: Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...

Yep fair question.

You talked about those extra frequencies, an LP record - played on a reasonable 
turntable through a reasonable Hi-Fi setup exhibits some of those extra 
frequencies you would find in HD audio thus listeners often talk about the 
difference between CD and record.

As for me? Well if people want their LP records and so on then that s fine but 
I prefer the convenience of CD or Hd Audio thanks - preferably HD audio - 
.


> On 14 Feb 2016, at 4:04 PM, Hamit Campos  wrote:
> 
> Interesting. I'm not sure I've ever heard an LP record. So can't judge. But 
> it does raze the question my mind, how could it compare to 192 KHZ 24 bit 
> LPCM?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of 
> Dane Trethowan
> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 9:53 PM
> To: PC Audio Discussion List 
> Subject: Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...
> 
> And that s why so many people say the LP records  Sound  better than CD S.
> 
>> On 14 Feb 2016, at 1:15 PM, Hamit Campos  wrote:
>> 
>> Yeah and even though at 192 24 bit it's said that you capture more than you 
>> can actually hear, it still is good to do so so you have all the data points 
>> of your source.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Pc-audio [mailto:pc-audio-boun...@pc-audio.org] On Behalf Of 
>> Dane Trethowan
>> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 7:20 PM
>> To: PC Audio Discussion List 
>> Subject: Re: Oppo HA--2 just arrived...
>> 
>> Ah yes, hearing frequency s makes all the difference though it mightn t be 
>> obvious at first glance, its those extra frequency information that give the 
>> music the detail, the depth and the added excitement of the expanded sound 
>> stage, if this weren t the case the studios wouldn t bother making master 
>> recordings using 192K or above sampling and so on.
>> 
>> 
>>> On 14 Feb 2016, at 9:13 AM, Hamit Campos  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Actually hearing does matter when it comes to frequencies. For 
>>> instance when on the Twit network HD audio is discussed, Leo Laporte 
>>> always points out that he can't really appreciate what higher sample 
>>> rate and bit death does for the