Re: [PD] Thoughts in conclusion of the 4th Pure Data Convention
Would it be feasible to have a log of all pd-ext libraries and their objects, each time a new stable version is released? Such a list would probably be overwhelming, but at least a good place where to start. M Having a static table of objects that informs the user what's included in the currently shifting target that is Pd-extended is the wrong approach.? My solution would be to delete the entire table, but maybe someone else has a better, less drastic idea. -- Marco Donnarumma New Media + Sonic Arts Practitioner, Performer, Teacher, Director. ACE, Sound Design MSc by Research (ongoing) The University of Edinburgh, UK ~ Portfolio: http://marcodonnarumma.com Research: http://res.marcodonnarumma.com | http://www.thesaddj.com | http://www.flxer.net Director: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Thoughts in conclusion of the 4th Pure Data Convention
Hans, you're right I'll add some projects myself, to start with. I'm still keen to work on the css, but last time I got no answer about access privileges to the plone platform. I'll get this on the web list and try again, IOhannes, shall we try something about it? cheers, Marco On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 4:50 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.atwrote: It would be great if someone took on making the website nicer. The framework that's there is pretty solid, it just needs someone to come and give it the finishing touches. Some of this can be broken down into many little tasks. In the past year or two, I've been working on trying to make the website more like a wiki, and a bit easier to navigate, and that does seem to have gotten people to use it more, and contribute. Here are some things i can see that anyone could take on: - pick a page you know something about (you don't have to be the expert), and clean it up - add projects to the exhibition! http://puredata.info/exhibition Marco, you could add Jaime's project, for example. The only rule we made for the exhibition is no self-promotion, you should only post things that you had nothing to do with. Here is how anyone can add to the exhibition: http://puredata.info/docs/sitedocs/AddingToTheExhibition - CSS/Plone template work for the exhibition, make the exhibition look nice wit things like showing inline images, more interested layout, etc. - CSS/Plone template work to make the whole site look cleaner .hc On Feb 9, 2012, at 6:59 AM, Marco Donnarumma wrote: Hi folks, it's a pity nobody is taking on the important issues advanced by Max. I see this actually fitting in a general refrain (and I include myself here) to discuss topics like: our Pd flagship website gives people a unnecessary hardship, or the social network culture has since long time now changed drastically the way we share on the web, and it does affect the way we promote and talk about Pd. Even if we don't want to care about it. Is is surely a long and perhaps painful discussion to draw upon, but I think it is needed at this point. We can also leave things take their drifts, which is ok, but why can't we be pro-active also at this level? I'm not sure about the demographic issue Max reported, as I see my and other's courses always very well participated, along with a fairly good dynamics taking place on the various collective platform on the web. However, it is a fact that we are inflicting ourself and our community a gratuitous pain in terms of sharing, distribution and self-teaching infrastructure. I'm the first who's always too busy to really take on this issues when somebody else points them out, but sometimes I wonder what would happen if we could be able to gather a 10% of the energies we spend developing stuff, and use it to improve once for all the way Pd appears on the web (meaning here, the way lts of cool documentation material is overly underused because it can't be easily reached, the way how the plone website literally scare newbies, and also the fact of avoiding constructive comparisons with other open communities out there, like the processing one which does an amazing work in this sense). Pd is used by many developers, artists and so on. There are incredible works out there who earned prestigious prizes (see for instance Jaime's at FILE and Guthman Instrument Competition), new frontiers for interactive, mobile, and biosensing techs are being open only thanks to Pd, and you know what? The 80% of the people I talk to (also practitioners) don't even know about it. Imho, this is very wrong, and most importantly, dangerous for the good sake of our community. I'm aware this has been discussed far too many times, but we all could benefit a lot from a new and useful web appearance and all things related. So the question now becomes, how can we elaborate a collaborative strategy to build a proper web platform, which would emphasise the work of our developers and creators rather than hiding it? and how can we think of a communal approach to make easily available all the knowledge that sits in scattered instances all around the web? I'm sure Pd will live far longer than me, but why don't we make a little effort to gather more devs, creators and thinkers around us y simply getting all our efforts clearly visible? hope somebody else feel the same as me and Max and would feel like further the conversation. cheers and thanks, Marco When I find artist like Lukas Buschfeld presenting his prints printed by a custom large scale dot matrix printer which is programmed in and run by Pd entirely (plus a little Arduino) I'm stunned. Look at the prints: http://lucasbuschfeld.com/index.php?cat=graphic In an attempt to improve the first impression you get when checking out Pd I've been experimenting with vimeo gathering Pd based works in a group: http://vimeo.com/groups/puredata/ When you
Re: [PD] Thoughts in conclusion of the 4th Pure Data Convention
Someone could easily script that, especially now that Jonathan has been adding the metadata to so many help patches, and almost all the libraries are in libdir format, which means every object has its own help patch. Then they could post that to a page on puredata.info, flossmanuals.net or on their own website. .hc On Feb 11, 2012, at 5:43 AM, Marco Donnarumma wrote: Would it be feasible to have a log of all pd-ext libraries and their objects, each time a new stable version is released? Such a list would probably be overwhelming, but at least a good place where to start. M Having a static table of objects that informs the user what's included in the currently shifting target that is Pd-extended is the wrong approach.? My solution would be to delete the entire table, but maybe someone else has a better, less drastic idea. -- Marco Donnarumma New Media + Sonic Arts Practitioner, Performer, Teacher, Director. ACE, Sound Design MSc by Research (ongoing) The University of Edinburgh, UK ~ Portfolio: http://marcodonnarumma.com Research: http://res.marcodonnarumma.com | http://www.thesaddj.com | http://www.flxer.net Director: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net ¡El pueblo unido jamás será vencido! ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Thoughts in conclusion of the 4th Pure Data Convention
I replied on the pdweb list. If anyone is interested in the working on the website, that's the place for the discussion on that topic. .hc On Feb 11, 2012, at 5:45 AM, Marco Donnarumma wrote: Hans, you're right I'll add some projects myself, to start with. I'm still keen to work on the css, but last time I got no answer about access privileges to the plone platform. I'll get this on the web list and try again, IOhannes, shall we try something about it? cheers, Marco On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 4:50 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: It would be great if someone took on making the website nicer. The framework that's there is pretty solid, it just needs someone to come and give it the finishing touches. Some of this can be broken down into many little tasks. In the past year or two, I've been working on trying to make the website more like a wiki, and a bit easier to navigate, and that does seem to have gotten people to use it more, and contribute. Here are some things i can see that anyone could take on: - pick a page you know something about (you don't have to be the expert), and clean it up - add projects to the exhibition! http://puredata.info/exhibition Marco, you could add Jaime's project, for example. The only rule we made for the exhibition is no self-promotion, you should only post things that you had nothing to do with. Here is how anyone can add to the exhibition: http://puredata.info/docs/sitedocs/AddingToTheExhibition - CSS/Plone template work for the exhibition, make the exhibition look nice wit things like showing inline images, more interested layout, etc. - CSS/Plone template work to make the whole site look cleaner .hc On Feb 9, 2012, at 6:59 AM, Marco Donnarumma wrote: Hi folks, it's a pity nobody is taking on the important issues advanced by Max. I see this actually fitting in a general refrain (and I include myself here) to discuss topics like: our Pd flagship website gives people a unnecessary hardship, or the social network culture has since long time now changed drastically the way we share on the web, and it does affect the way we promote and talk about Pd. Even if we don't want to care about it. Is is surely a long and perhaps painful discussion to draw upon, but I think it is needed at this point. We can also leave things take their drifts, which is ok, but why can't we be pro-active also at this level? I'm not sure about the demographic issue Max reported, as I see my and other's courses always very well participated, along with a fairly good dynamics taking place on the various collective platform on the web. However, it is a fact that we are inflicting ourself and our community a gratuitous pain in terms of sharing, distribution and self-teaching infrastructure. I'm the first who's always too busy to really take on this issues when somebody else points them out, but sometimes I wonder what would happen if we could be able to gather a 10% of the energies we spend developing stuff, and use it to improve once for all the way Pd appears on the web (meaning here, the way lts of cool documentation material is overly underused because it can't be easily reached, the way how the plone website literally scare newbies, and also the fact of avoiding constructive comparisons with other open communities out there, like the processing one which does an amazing work in this sense). Pd is used by many developers, artists and so on. There are incredible works out there who earned prestigious prizes (see for instance Jaime's at FILE and Guthman Instrument Competition), new frontiers for interactive, mobile, and biosensing techs are being open only thanks to Pd, and you know what? The 80% of the people I talk to (also practitioners) don't even know about it. Imho, this is very wrong, and most importantly, dangerous for the good sake of our community. I'm aware this has been discussed far too many times, but we all could benefit a lot from a new and useful web appearance and all things related. So the question now becomes, how can we elaborate a collaborative strategy to build a proper web platform, which would emphasise the work of our developers and creators rather than hiding it? and how can we think of a communal approach to make easily available all the knowledge that sits in scattered instances all around the web? I'm sure Pd will live far longer than me, but why don't we make a little effort to gather more devs, creators and thinkers around us y simply getting all our efforts clearly visible? hope somebody else feel the same as me and Max and would feel like further the conversation. cheers and thanks, Marco When I find artist like Lukas Buschfeld presenting his prints printed by a custom large scale dot matrix printer which is programmed in and run by Pd entirely (plus a little
Re: [PD] Thoughts in conclusion of the 4th Pure Data Convention
jonathan has already wrote a script for that (I think), maybe it's better to ask him directly. besides that, the most complete list is my excel file, which was made by manual copy-paste, and therefore will never be up to date. How about making a script from Jonathan's script that generates a web page with a table with all objects? That web page can be uploaded to puredata.info, or even packaged with pd-ext. Another thing would be a more complete list of categories, as the ones from pd-van are even too few for its objects. There was at least one discussion about it in the pd-dev list, but it besides some suggestions on how to do it, no conclusions came out. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Thoughts in conclusion of the 4th Pure Data Convention
That table came from a static solution itself - I copy-pasted every one of those entries (and many more which didn't get in) - into an excel file first, which I use for myself. Pasting the most relevant parts of that file to a wiki format was my main contribute to the floss manual. But it's wrong, the content table should be dynamical just like the build process is in each version. The thing is, I don't know how to work with scripts, and there was no one else who did this. So the answer is very easy, someone else make it better. I've done as much as I could, following the editorial criteria of that time. A dynamic list would be a very good resource for pd-ext, as very few people know about externals outside of pd-van, gem and zexy. Be it in a patch, a web page, the auto-completion plugin, or any other form. It should only be in a form where it could be easily interacted with while patching in Pd. Having a static table of objects that informs the user what's included in the currently shifting target that is Pd-extended is the wrong approach. My solution would be to delete the entire table, but maybe someone else has a better, less drastic idea. -Jonathan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] ubuntu linx: a couple of pd+jack errors
error: JACK error: cannot lock down memory for RT thread (Cannot allocate memory) this error seems to indicate that you are lacking real time priviliges (what's the content of your /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf?) I can reply later, I can't access the computer where this happened. This one appears when I load a complex patch. It also crashes Pd: tk scaling is 1.3187954309449634 Speicherzugriffsfehler pd_gui: pd process exited you could try to produce a backtrace [1] Funnily, Pd+Jack works with the same patch - as long as I start Pd with alsa, and after loading the patch change the audio to jack. which would indicate that your patch takes too long to load and jack kicks out Pd the patch does need some time to load, it has to load in a couple of long samples (up to 5'), load text files with markers that divide the arrays and generate data structures to display that division... can take some minutes in XP (will take less on ubuntu, of course). ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] GUI and DSP
Le 2012-02-10 à 20:09:00, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit : For me the create-delete method uses more CPU but both are pretty intensive. Any Qt devs out there? Or gtk'ers? Maybe a JUCEr? Would those toolkits be able to utilize the GPU? Those would be nice to compare, too. In the end, switching toolkits wouldn't be a bad idea, but it's not the only solution. Some things inside of tk could be improved. Modifying tk can be scary, more so if we have to think seriously about bundling alpha versions of tk 8.7 together with pd-extended, but the alternative is to rewrite large amounts of code (everything using sys_gui or implicitly referring to Tcl), which is error-prone, hard to test, and too many changes in one chunk. So, it's not very clear to me which one is best. I had tried making some changes to Tk 8.5, and it seemed somewhat promising. I was getting large speedups for some cases, and large slowdowns for some other cases. With more work, the latter could have been eliminated. It would benefit most other uses of Tk Canvas in other apps as well, so it could be integrated to Tk itself. __ | Mathieu BOUCHARD - téléphone : +1.514.383.3801 - Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] GUI and DSP
- Original Message - From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at; Ivica Ico Bukvic i...@vt.edu; pd-list@iem.at List pd-list@iem.at Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [PD] GUI and DSP Le 2012-02-10 à 20:09:00, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit : For me the create-delete method uses more CPU but both are pretty intensive. Any Qt devs out there? Or gtk'ers? Maybe a JUCEr? Would those toolkits be able to utilize the GPU? Those would be nice to compare, too. In the end, switching toolkits wouldn't be a bad idea, but it's not the only solution. Some things inside of tk could be improved. Modifying tk can be scary, more so if we have to think seriously about bundling alpha versions of tk 8.7 together with pd-extended, but the alternative is to rewrite large amounts of code (everything using sys_gui or implicitly referring to Tcl), which is error-prone, hard to test, and too many changes in one chunk. So, it's not very clear to me which one is best. I had tried making some changes to Tk 8.5, and it seemed somewhat promising. I was getting large speedups for some cases, and large slowdowns for some other cases. With more work, the latter could have been eliminated. It would benefit most other uses of Tk Canvas in other apps as well, so it could be integrated to Tk itself. Do you still have any of those changes you made to Tk? If so, how do they compare to unpatched Tk when running Hans' array-demo? -Jonathan __ | Mathieu BOUCHARD - téléphone : +1.514.383.3801 - Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Thoughts in conclusion of the 4th Pure Data Convention
- Original Message - From: João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com To: Marco Donnarumma de...@thesaddj.com; Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Cc: pd-list@iem.at; Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [PD] Thoughts in conclusion of the 4th Pure Data Convention jonathan has already wrote a script for that (I think), maybe it's better to ask him directly. besides that, the most complete list is my excel file, which was made by manual copy-paste, and therefore will never be up to date. Yeah that was actually a pd patch that I have somewhere. Right now I'm revising my tcl search plugin so that you can get a list of all the libraries with a short description of what's in them. That, along with the ability to do full text search, keyword/author/xlet/license/description/alias search should be a lot more useful than a big list of 1000+ objects. How about making a script from Jonathan's script that generates a web page with a table with all objects? That web page can be uploaded to puredata.info, or even packaged with pd-ext. Another thing would be a more complete list of categories, as the ones from pd-van are even too few for its objects. There was at least one discussion about it in the pd-dev list, but it besides some suggestions on how to do it, no conclusions came out. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Thoughts in conclusion of the 4th Pure Data Convention
Le 2012-02-08 à 04:50:00, Max a écrit : FUNDING: Getting the necessary funding was certainly the issue I personally spent the most time on. We had an overall budget of around 17.000 EUR. [...] That budget is less than a third of what the convention in Montréal had available. It's easy to spend a lot less money when not funding the participants' travel. I mean that for a fair comparison, your non-travel budget of 2011 should be compared to the non-travel budget of 2007. The 2007 convention had a very large number of overseas participants and paid 350 EUR of plane ticket fees for _each_ participant who wasn't already funded by other means. Despite that, IIRC, the total cost was a lot less than the 1st Convention, but I don't have actual numbers to show for comparison. EXPENSES: We spent most of the budget supporting our participants. The biggest expense there was covering for the accomodation, In the 2nd convention, there was almost no budget for accomodation. Hôtel was paid for just one person, and everybody else got free accomodation sharing apartments with volunteers. This made the cost of accomodation something about 2 % of the total cost of the convention (but I don't have actual figures). Frankly I've been a bit surprised that the average age wasn't a bit lower. This certainly has implications on how to accommodate the guests in the future (youth hostel, again?), I don't know how comfortable those hostels are, but access to actual homes for 0,- EUR is hard to beat. __ | Mathieu BOUCHARD - téléphone : +1.514.383.3801 - Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] GUI and DSP
JUCE is amazing in terms of gui speed-up. Just check out bundled demos that come with the sdk... Half of Gem could be easily reimplemented using JUCE sdk... Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A Composition, Music Technology Director, DISIS Interactive Sound Intermedia Studio Director, L2Ork Linux Laptop Orchestra Assistant Director, CCTAD Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, VA 24061-0240 (540) 231-6139 (540) 231-5034 (fax) disis.music.vt.edu l2ork.music.vt.edu ico.bukvic.net Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com wrote: - Original Message - From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at; Ivica Ico Bukvic i...@vt.edu; pd-list@iem.at List pd-list@iem.at Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [PD] GUI and DSP Le 2012-02-10 à 20:09:00, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit : For me the create-delete method uses more CPU but both are pretty intensive. Any Qt devs out there? Or gtk'ers? Maybe a JUCEr? Would those toolkits be able to utilize the GPU? Those would be nice to compare, too. In the end, switching toolkits wouldn't be a bad idea, but it's not the only solution. Some things inside of tk could be improved. Modifying tk can be scary, more so if we have to think seriously about bundling alpha versions of tk 8.7 together with pd-extended, but the alternative is to rewrite large amounts of code (everything using sys_gui or implicitly referring to Tcl), which is error-prone, hard to test, and too many changes in one chunk. So, it's not very clear to me which one is best. I had tried making some changes to Tk 8.5, and it seemed somewhat promising. I was getting large speedups for some cases, and large slowdowns for some other cases. With more work, the latter could have been eliminated. It would benefit most other uses of Tk Canvas in other apps as well, so it could be integrated to Tk itself. Do you still have any of those changes you made to Tk? If so, how do they compare to unpatched Tk when running Hans' array-demo? -Jonathan _ | Mathieu BOUCHARD - téléphone : +1.514.383.3801 - Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] GUI and DSP
On Feb 11, 2012, at 11:59 AM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: Le 2012-02-10 à 20:09:00, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit : For me the create-delete method uses more CPU but both are pretty intensive. Any Qt devs out there? Or gtk'ers? Maybe a JUCEr? Would those toolkits be able to utilize the GPU? Those would be nice to compare, too. In the end, switching toolkits wouldn't be a bad idea, but it's not the only solution. Some things inside of tk could be improved. Modifying tk can be scary, more so if we have to think seriously about bundling alpha versions of tk 8.7 together with pd-extended, but the alternative is to rewrite large amounts of code (everything using sys_gui or implicitly referring to Tcl), which is error-prone, hard to test, and too many changes in one chunk. So, it's not very clear to me which one is best. I had tried making some changes to Tk 8.5, and it seemed somewhat promising. I was getting large speedups for some cases, and large slowdowns for some other cases. With more work, the latter could have been eliminated. It would benefit most other uses of Tk Canvas in other apps as well, so it could be integrated to Tk itself. This makes a lot of sense to me. The approach you outline here would also likely be a more rapid path to speeding the Pd GUI up. It can be done incrementally, while switching away from Tcl/Tk has to be done all at once. Then we can take the pressure off of splitting the GUI stuff out of 'pd' to make sure we get it done right. .hc ¡El pueblo unido jamás será vencido! ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Thoughts in conclusion of the 4th Pure Data Convention
On Feb 11, 2012, at 1:01 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: Le 2012-02-08 à 04:50:00, Max a écrit : FUNDING: Getting the necessary funding was certainly the issue I personally spent the most time on. We had an overall budget of around 17.000 EUR. [...] That budget is less than a third of what the convention in Montréal had available. It's easy to spend a lot less money when not funding the participants' travel. I mean that for a fair comparison, your non-travel budget of 2011 should be compared to the non-travel budget of 2007. The 2007 convention had a very large number of overseas participants and paid 350 EUR of plane ticket fees for _each_ participant who wasn't already funded by other means. Despite that, IIRC, the total cost was a lot less than the 1st Convention, but I don't have actual numbers to show for comparison. EXPENSES: We spent most of the budget supporting our participants. The biggest expense there was covering for the accomodation, In the 2nd convention, there was almost no budget for accomodation. Hôtel was paid for just one person, and everybody else got free accomodation sharing apartments with volunteers. This made the cost of accomodation something about 2 % of the total cost of the convention (but I don't have actual figures). Frankly I've been a bit surprised that the average age wasn't a bit lower. This certainly has implications on how to accommodate the guests in the future (youth hostel, again?), I don't know how comfortable those hostels are, but access to actual homes for 0,- EUR is hard to beat. Staying in people's apartments in Montreal was nice, but that only works if there are enough volunteers to manage that whole process. I also enjoyed the arrangement in Sao Paolo, where we had the whole hostel housing only pdcon attendees. That took more money, but probably less work on the part of the pdcon organizers. .hc I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. - General Smedley Butler ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Thoughts in conclusion of the 4th Pure Data Convention
El 11.02.2012, a las 19:01, Mathieu Bouchard escribió: Le 2012-02-08 à 04:50:00, Max a écrit : FUNDING: Getting the necessary funding was certainly the issue I personally spent the most time on. We had an overall budget of around 17.000 EUR. [...] That budget is less than a third of what the convention in Montréal had available. It's easy to spend a lot less money when not funding the participants' travel. I mean that for a fair comparison, your non-travel budget of 2011 should be compared to the non-travel budget of 2007. The 2007 convention had a very large number of overseas participants and paid 350 EUR of plane ticket fees for _each_ participant who wasn't already funded by other means. Despite that, IIRC, the total cost was a lot less than the 1st Convention, but I don't have actual numbers to show for comparison. EXPENSES: We spent most of the budget supporting our participants. The biggest expense there was covering for the accomodation, In the 2nd convention, there was almost no budget for accomodation. Hôtel was paid for just one person, and everybody else got free accomodation sharing apartments with volunteers. This made the cost of accomodation something about 2 % of the total cost of the convention (but I don't have actual figures). Frankly I've been a bit surprised that the average age wasn't a bit lower. This certainly has implications on how to accommodate the guests in the future (youth hostel, again?), I don't know how comfortable those hostels are, but access to actual homes for 0,- EUR is hard to beat. Dear Mathieu, we looked into the private accommodation option as well but decided against it because the convention took place during the summer break and parallel to the bauhaus-summer school. the summer school did pay for people subletting and thus had already scooped away the potential of private accommodation. the deal we've got with the youth hostel was good - just that we were charged for those not checking in but reserving through our online registration made the accommodation expenses rise to 3606.- € We are also talking about a lot more participants - around 140 people. Also there were many performers/artist in the exhibition who all together received 3703,88 in contribution towards their travel expenses. Travel and Accommodation together is 7309.88 that's comparable to what was spent in Montreal for the participants, just that it was there divided amongst fewer individuals. Where we did actually spent less on, was equipment tech and rent which was close to zero due to the fact that we've mostly used university space and equipment. São Paulo afaik had to spend a substantial amount for a tax lawyer doing their finances due to bureaucracy hassle attached to the public funding. I know that i wasn't the only one who missed you in weimar and i would like to see your interesting paper about the self generating help files to be discussed on the list. cordially, max ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] FLOSS Manuals
El 11.02.2012, a las 05:57, Hans-Christoph Steiner escribió: The FLOSS manuals book is editable by anyone. Please fix it if it has wrong info. :) I've tried to fix obviously wrong stuff, like for instance the senctence: “The numbers sent from our counter will increase endlessly.” on the page: http://en.flossmanuals.net/pure-data/ch031_step-sequencer/ If i log in and edit, I changed it to „The numbers sent from our counter will increase until the number 16777216.“ on http://booki.flossmanuals.net/pure-data/_edit/ although the edit was a few months ago it hasn't been published to the frontend. When I noticed that, i stopped editing because it seemed pointless. Am I missing something obvious? m. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Thoughts in conclusion of the 4th Pure Data Convention
that sounds quite promising, thanks Jonathan... +1 M On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com wrote: - Original Message - From: João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com To: Marco Donnarumma de...@thesaddj.com; Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Cc: pd-list@iem.at; Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [PD] Thoughts in conclusion of the 4th Pure Data Convention jonathan has already wrote a script for that (I think), maybe it's better to ask him directly. besides that, the most complete list is my excel file, which was made by manual copy-paste, and therefore will never be up to date. Yeah that was actually a pd patch that I have somewhere. Right now I'm revising my tcl search plugin so that you can get a list of all the libraries with a short description of what's in them. That, along with the ability to do full text search, keyword/author/xlet/license/description/alias search should be a lot more useful than a big list of 1000+ objects. How about making a script from Jonathan's script that generates a web page with a table with all objects? That web page can be uploaded to puredata.info, or even packaged with pd-ext. Another thing would be a more complete list of categories, as the ones from pd-van are even too few for its objects. There was at least one discussion about it in the pd-dev list, but it besides some suggestions on how to do it, no conclusions came out. -- Marco Donnarumma New Media + Sonic Arts Practitioner, Performer, Teacher, Director. ACE, Sound Design MSc by Research (ongoing) The University of Edinburgh, UK ~ Portfolio: http://marcodonnarumma.com Research: http://res.marcodonnarumma.com | http://www.thesaddj.com | http://www.flxer.net Director: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Thoughts in conclusion of the 4th Pure Data Convention
Le 2012-02-11 à 21:25:00, Max a écrit : we looked into the private accommodation option as well but decided against it because the convention took place during the summer break and parallel to the bauhaus-summer school. the summer school did pay for people subletting and thus had already scooped away the potential of private accommodation. But I mean people that are not subletting. During the 2nd convention, volunteers were keeping their own apartment but shared the space with a visitor, using extra beds put in living room or unused bedroom or other. That's a different game not involving people who leave their own apartment. the deal we've got with the youth hostel was good - just that we were charged for those not checking in but reserving through our online registration made the accommodation expenses rise to 3606.- € You said that 2500 € were wasted ? How many people, times how much per person ? Where we did actually spent less on, was equipment tech and rent which was close to zero due to the fact that we've mostly used university space and equipment. AFAIR, the equipment was not actually rented with money, but had to be accounted as if it had been. However, I don't have this info and don't trust me about it. I saw the accounting once or twice, but either I lost it somewhere in my home, or I never had a copy of my own. It would be better to have this info from Marc or Andrew or Darsha, people who were more involved with that side of the Pd Convention. i would like to see your interesting paper about the self generating help files to be discussed on the list. I already wrote about that topic on pd-list before writing my paper for Weimar... though the paper went in greater detail. It didn't seem to attract any significant amount of conversation on pd-list back then. Who would you want to see writing about it ? BTW, have you tried that documentation system ? __ | Mathieu BOUCHARD - téléphone : +1.514.383.3801 - Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] FLOSS Manuals
On Feb 11, 2012, at 3:41 PM, Max wrote: El 11.02.2012, a las 05:57, Hans-Christoph Steiner escribió: The FLOSS manuals book is editable by anyone. Please fix it if it has wrong info. :) I've tried to fix obviously wrong stuff, like for instance the senctence: “The numbers sent from our counter will increase endlessly.” on the page: http://en.flossmanuals.net/pure-data/ch031_step-sequencer/ If i log in and edit, I changed it to „The numbers sent from our counter will increase until the number 16777216.“ on http://booki.flossmanuals.net/pure-data/_edit/ although the edit was a few months ago it hasn't been published to the frontend. When I noticed that, i stopped editing because it seemed pointless. Am I missing something obvious? Its a publishing system, so the public facing version of the book is different than the one you are editing. The idea is that you can work on editing without affecting the public book, then when its ready for an update, you can flip the changes to the public version. Derek and Adam always did that part, I haven't done it before, but it can be done whenever someone wants to take it on. .hc I hate it when they say, He gave his life for his country. Nobody gives their life for anything. We steal the lives of these kids. -Admiral Gene LeRocque ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Thoughts in conclusion of the 4th Pure Data Convention
- Original Message - From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca To: Max abonneme...@revolwear.com Cc: PD list pd-list@iem.at Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 5:19 PM Subject: Re: [PD] Thoughts in conclusion of the 4th Pure Data Convention Le 2012-02-11 à 21:25:00, Max a écrit : we looked into the private accommodation option as well but decided against it because the convention took place during the summer break and parallel to the bauhaus-summer school. the summer school did pay for people subletting and thus had already scooped away the potential of private accommodation. But I mean people that are not subletting. During the 2nd convention, volunteers were keeping their own apartment but shared the space with a visitor, using extra beds put in living room or unused bedroom or other. That's a different game not involving people who leave their own apartment. the deal we've got with the youth hostel was good - just that we were charged for those not checking in but reserving through our online registration made the accommodation expenses rise to 3606.- € You said that 2500 € were wasted ? How many people, times how much per person ? Where we did actually spent less on, was equipment tech and rent which was close to zero due to the fact that we've mostly used university space and equipment. AFAIR, the equipment was not actually rented with money, but had to be accounted as if it had been. However, I don't have this info and don't trust me about it. I saw the accounting once or twice, but either I lost it somewhere in my home, or I never had a copy of my own. It would be better to have this info from Marc or Andrew or Darsha, people who were more involved with that side of the Pd Convention. i would like to see your interesting paper about the self generating help files to be discussed on the list. I already wrote about that topic on pd-list before writing my paper for Weimar... though the paper went in greater detail. It didn't seem to attract any significant amount of conversation on pd-list back then. Who would you want to see writing about it ? BTW, have you tried that documentation system ? I'd prefer a self-coding system where you just have to write the documentation. -Jonathan __ | Mathieu BOUCHARD - téléphone : +1.514.383.3801 - Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Thoughts in conclusion of the 4th Pure Data Convention
Le 2012-02-11 à 18:06:00, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit : I'd prefer a self-coding system where you just have to write the documentation. Actually, we'd prefer a self-coding self-documenting system in which we would just have to be armchair theoricians writing witty remarks on the mailing-list. __ | Mathieu BOUCHARD - téléphone : +1.514.383.3801 - Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] robotcowboy 2.0
Le 2012-02-06 à 20:31:00, Dan Wilcox a écrit : robotcowboy is dead. Long live robotcowboy! Change is good and it's time for robotcowboy 2.0. I'm rebuilding the system in an OpenFrameworks app using libpd. Think of it as an RjDj on steroids with a visual engine running lua scripts. I put together a wearable alpha version last weekend that was demoed at arthackday in Brooklyn running on an iPad 2. As part of the documentation, I wrote up a quick overview on robotcowboy and why I'm working on refreshing it: http://robotcowboy.com/news/robotcowboy-2-0 Can we get a nonblurry picture too ? I'm downloading all those pixels and I think I'm getting swindled on the dearth of high-frequency harmonics in the ROI (Region of Interest). If you can't provide actual high-resolution details, try drawing a 32x32 icon of the same thing for greater efficiency. __ | Mathieu BOUCHARD - téléphone : +1.514.383.3801 - Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Thoughts in conclusion of the 4th Pure Data Convention
Caution: probably want to run this one with -noloadbang. :) -Jonathan - Original Message - From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: Max abonneme...@revolwear.com; PD list pd-list@iem.at Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [PD] Thoughts in conclusion of the 4th Pure Data Convention Le 2012-02-11 à 18:06:00, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit : I'd prefer a self-coding system where you just have to write the documentation. Actually, we'd prefer a self-coding self-documenting system in which we would just have to be armchair theoricians writing witty remarks on the mailing-list. __ | Mathieu BOUCHARD - téléphone : +1.514.383.3801 - Montréal, QC self-document.pd Description: Binary data ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] My new PD music - HelmholtzShipHarmonicWind
Le 2012-01-15 à 18:15:00, Billy Stiltner a écrit : http://youtu.be/V47C7AlTEUw Enjoy, feedback welcome. Sounds pretty much like it's the best stuff ever made with Pd. __ | Mathieu BOUCHARD - téléphone : +1.514.383.3801 - Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] number to fractions external?
Le 2011-12-18 à 12:51:00, Alexandre Torres Porres a écrit : I will take care of that after february, when I finish up my thesis. Can I count on you to help me revise it? Sorry, I meant to say : « Yes ». __ | Mathieu BOUCHARD - téléphone : +1.514.383.3801 - Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] My new PD music - HelmholtzShipHarmonicWind
De: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca À: Billy Stiltner billy.stilt...@gmail.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Envoyé: Dimanche 12 Février 2012 05:47:22 Objet: Re: [PD] My new PD music - HelmholtzShipHarmonicWind Le 2012-01-15 à 18:15:00, Billy Stiltner a écrit : http://youtu.be/V47C7AlTEUw Enjoy, feedback welcome. Sounds pretty much like it's the best stuff ever made with Pd. + 1 I'm quite jealous ^^ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] GUI and DSP
Le 2012-02-11 à 09:15:00, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit : Do you still have any of those changes you made to Tk? If so, how do they compare to unpatched Tk when running Hans' array-demo? Well, yes, I have them, but it's not very relevant, as I already know that those changes make Pd really worse in too many cases. The interface common to all item-types has a function to return one bbox (bounding-box : x1 y1 x2 y2). It is assumed that the whole bbox has to be redrawn whenever any aspect of the item has changed. For long diagonal lines, this means a damn lot of stuff that isn't even close to the line. I didn't change this. Then this info is centralised as a single bbox that tells which part of the canvas to redraw. There's only one. In my diff, I replace this by a grid each representing a 8x8 or 32x32 zone, I don't remember what precise size. But that was all, and this caused draw-commands to be duplicated many times the way I did it, because I drew each zone separately with a clipmask. There would have been other ways to reduce the waste, some involving redrawing multiple zones at once in the grid system, and some involving handling multiple bboxes at once and merging them into something that is not a bbox. I also had other ideas, such as making items modify the grid instead of returning a bbox, which would greatly speed up things like diagonal lines and perhaps pd's arrays (any item in which the bbox has a much greater area than the item). __ | Mathieu BOUCHARD - téléphone : +1.514.383.3801 - Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Fwd: [PD-dev] New snapshot of pd-l2ork available -- feedback appreciated
Thanks a lot! Ivica, what about using this for backtrace? http://code.google.com/p/backtrace-mingw/ - Mail original - De: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca À: Patrice Colet colet.patr...@free.fr Cc: pd-list pd-list@iem.at Envoyé: Vendredi 10 Février 2012 06:28:44 Objet: Re: [PD] Fwd: [PD-dev] New snapshot of pd-l2ork available -- feedback appreciated Le 2012-02-10 à 05:18:00, Patrice Colet a écrit : s_inter.c:83:22: fatal error: execinfo.h: No such file or directory execinfo.h used to be GNU-only, but now Apple supports it on OSX and iPhone. It is not available on Android (Linux but non-GNU) and it's not available on Windows. s_audio.c:18:26: fatal error: sys/resource.h: No such file or directory This is for the setrlimit (ulimit) and priority features. x_misc.c:23:23: fatal error: sys/times.h: No such file or directory That available on all platforms except Windows. It's used by Pd's [cputime] class. x_list.c:15:20: fatal error: alloca.h: No such file or directory Headers are split differently. On Linux, alloca() is in a header separate from malloc(), but on Windows, both are in malloc.h. It looks like you don't have #define MSW. It won't solve all problems, but it will solve those common to pd-vanilla. Colet Patrice ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] My new PD music - HelmholtzShipHarmonicWind
Lovely! On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 11:52 PM, Patrice Colet colet.patr...@free.frwrote: De: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca À: Billy Stiltner billy.stilt...@gmail.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Envoyé: Dimanche 12 Février 2012 05:47:22 Objet: Re: [PD] My new PD music - HelmholtzShipHarmonicWind Le 2012-01-15 à 18:15:00, Billy Stiltner a écrit : http://youtu.be/V47C7AlTEUw Enjoy, feedback welcome. Sounds pretty much like it's the best stuff ever made with Pd. + 1 I'm quite jealous ^^ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] backtrace() for MinGW (and Android)
Le 2012-02-12 à 06:06:00, Patrice Colet a écrit : Thanks a lot! Ivica, what about using this for backtrace? http://code.google.com/p/backtrace-mingw/ Does anyone have such a thing for Android ? I found something similar, except it doesn't work inside a signal handler, so, unlike any other Linux OS, I can't get backtrace() to give me the stack of a segfault. __ | Mathieu BOUCHARD - téléphone : +1.514.383.3801 - Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] roughness Pitch-Comonality objects (was Re: number to fractions external?)
Mathieu wrote: Sorry, I meant to say : « Yes ». Alex wrote: I will take care of that after february, when I finish up my thesis. Can I count on you to help me revise it? Mathieu wrote: | So, btw, where can people download the psprofile externals? Great Mathieu, I'm finishing the PhD text in the next couple of weeks. then it's time for to get my ass to release these things. what I realized about the pitch-commonality model after my time in montreal is that it can be used in a similar fashion to bren'ts TimbreID Abraço, Marcelo [image: cleardot.gif] abraço Em 11 de fevereiro de 2012 15:13, Marcelo Queiroz mqz@gmail.comescreveu: Marcamos às 14h, então! Abraço, Marcelo 2012/2/11 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com posso sim, só receio que talvez tenha que chegar lá mais cedo pra ver essas coisas por precaução, então se você acabar chegando mais cedo por lá, me avise. A secretaria lá fecha umas 16h abraço Em 11 de fevereiro de 2012 12:11, Marcelo Queiroz mqz@gmail.comescreveu: Oi, Alexandre! Estarei 2a na USP sim. Já tenho uns compromissos a partir das 16h. Você pode passar lá às 15h? Abraço, ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] roughness Pitch-Comonality objects (was Re: number to fractions external?)
wow, that came out ugly... some of that text shouldn't be there, damn you control c + control v anyway, I'd just like to say that I hope people will enjoy playing around with these objects, specially the pitch-commonality (that you called psprofile). I didn't explore them creatively as much as other stuff in my research, but I'll release those other things too anyway. funny how the thing I've worked the most on is the hardest to release, as it ends up being something very dirty and complex, with a user base of one (myself). cheers Em 12 de fevereiro de 2012 03:59, Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.comescreveu: Mathieu wrote: Sorry, I meant to say : « Yes ». Alex wrote: I will take care of that after february, when I finish up my thesis. Can I count on you to help me revise it? Mathieu wrote: | So, btw, where can people download the psprofile externals? Great Mathieu, I'm finishing the PhD text in the next couple of weeks. then it's time for to get my ass to release these things. what I realized about the pitch-commonality model after my time in montreal is that it can be used in a similar fashion to bren'ts TimbreID Abraço, Marcelo [image: cleardot.gif] abraço Em 11 de fevereiro de 2012 15:13, Marcelo Queiroz mqz@gmail.comescreveu: Marcamos às 14h, então! Abraço, Marcelo 2012/2/11 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com posso sim, só receio que talvez tenha que chegar lá mais cedo pra ver essas coisas por precaução, então se você acabar chegando mais cedo por lá, me avise. A secretaria lá fecha umas 16h abraço Em 11 de fevereiro de 2012 12:11, Marcelo Queiroz mqz@gmail.comescreveu: Oi, Alexandre! Estarei 2a na USP sim. Já tenho uns compromissos a partir das 16h. Você pode passar lá às 15h? Abraço, ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
