Re: [PD] PDCon07 peer review process
ola yves, 1) you are wrong 2) the way in which you write is on a personal violating style. number 1 is not a problem. marius. Yves Degoyon wrote: hop, i dunno if i should be more honest here: i don't think we need any curator in a digital community like this, what is that introduced arbitrary judgements here ? ( of non practitioners ? ) yeh i don't want any curator to invite me, and i will not pay a beer to any of them... in fact, death to curators would be more honest if anyones remember, reni was _not_ a curator at all, she was a pd praticioner, and yeh she dived into pd see? i will not comment on any mtl produced performances here, hopefully, but if you want, there is more to come sevy Yves Degoyon wrote: ola, It really hurts. I'm sure the other members of the executive feel the same way. ok, i'm a bit sorry of this one, it was too easy and unfair to you... but, i dunno why someone should submit 4 papers (and also complain that his 4th one was refused ) when everything should have been grouped in 'improve your pd life with dd' ( which i profoundly doubt ). anyway, it's not your fault in any sense. saludos, sevy ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PDCon07 peer review process
marius schebella wrote: ola yves, 1) you are wrong it's a bit short here, i perfectly know what i say when i say a FLOSS community should _never_ be ruled by curators.. look at piksel, if you want, it's a perfectly running event without anyone named a 'curator', they are _part_ of the community. 2) the way in which you write is on a personal violating style. that's how we speak in the streets man so watch out when you go out ) sevy ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PDCon07 peer review process
marius schebella wrote: I think Pd community is not a closed circle, users only, and there is also not a first level pd user and second level pd user. ?? out of context.. a chairman is not a curator, he speaks for the interests of a community and not for his own. I think that it is a good practice to have a board of people that reviews papers you don't read very well, the normal process, of course, is through peer reviews, but not dependeing on the arbitrary power of a curator, furthermore when this 'curator' was never aproved by the community. i can clearly read 'curator' in all pd convention's documents and not chairman... sevy ps : if i use the street language, this is part of the message, just to take out pd from the museum and galleries. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PDCon07 peer review process
Yves Degoyon wrote: marius schebella wrote: I think Pd community is not a closed circle, users only, and there is also not a first level pd user and second level pd user. ?? out of context.. yves, these are three statements from your postings: what is that introduced arbitrary judgements here ? ( of non practitioners ? ) if anyones remember, reni was _not_ a curator at all, she was a pd praticioner, and yeh she dived into pd and are you working with pd or dd ? I think you are drawing an arbitrary border between inside and outside, those people who are inside the community and those who are not. do you want to exclude everybody that has not used the program? how can you tell he/she does not? and is using dd bad? why? that's what I meant with second level pd user. btw, who/what is khanawake? marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PDCon07 peer review process
marius schebella wrote: btw, who/what is khanawake? It's part of Canada's version of the apartheid system: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kahnawake,_Quebec Martin ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PDCon07 peer review process
Martin Peach wrote: marius schebella wrote: btw, who/what is khanawake? It's part of Canada's version of the apartheid system: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kahnawake,_Quebec Martin exactly ! wikipedia is very good indeed, but they have full-time people reviewing the texts... it's also a good test to know if someone goes out in the streets sometimes... apart from that, i give up the discussion on curators, everybody here accepts the curator/artist relation ( the hand that feeds ) so it's useless i just want to say i have nothing to do with it, and we were not in montreal for the good will of any curator, but for the work acomplished, for this, i'm going back to work .. ciao, sevy ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PDCon07 peer review process
On Wed, 3 Oct 2007, Martin Peach wrote: marius schebella wrote: btw, who/what is khanawake? It's part of Canada's version of the apartheid system: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kahnawake,_Quebec While you are on Wikipedia could you please look up Apartheid and tell me wtf it has to do with anywhere in contemporary Canada. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PDCon07 peer review process
Hello, Andrew Brouse a écrit : At the end of the day, I justified it to myself this way: free and open-source tools like Pd are increasingly essential for musicians and artists to do their work. As someone who used to work in sculpture with wood, stone and steel, I know intimately that the quality of the work you do depends - amongst other factors - on having reliable tools. Do you have some references to share about nice artistic projects made with freewares? As I had nothing to do with the artistic selection process I cannot comment on that. Thank you ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PDCon07 peer review process
Damm i always believe i was a high level pd user. :( On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 10:05:50 -0400, marius schebella [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I think Pd community is not a closed circle, users only, and there is also not a first level pd user and second level pd user. a chairman is not a curator, he speaks for the interests of a community and not for his own. I think that it is a good practice to have a board of people that reviews papers and given the budget and circumstances finds a decision to invite some speakers and others not. which does not mean that it is the only way to do it. your excuse that you speak that way in the streets does not make your words less violating. marius. Yves Degoyon wrote: marius schebella wrote: ola yves, 1) you are wrong it's a bit short here, i perfectly know what i say when i say a FLOSS community should _never_ be ruled by curators.. look at piksel, if you want, it's a perfectly running event without anyone named a 'curator', they are _part_ of the community. 2) the way in which you write is on a personal violating style. that's how we speak in the streets man so watch out when you go out ) sevy ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- oyuki [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Same, same, but different ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] PDCon07 peer review process
On 30-Sep-07, at 5:45 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yeh i think people understand me when i complain about MB's spam, and also, about the fact that the pd convention was MB convention ( of course, when you're in the convention comittee and that you worked previously with all the curators out there ), This was brought to my attention and I feel I need to respond to it. I have no interest in getting involved in personal squabbles here. (I suggest you take such things 'out back': off-list.) I do, however, take very great exception with the imputation that the selection processes for PDCon07 artistic events or papers sessions were done in anything less than strict conformance with established international norms for such things. A couple of clarifications: Matthieu Bouchard was on the steering committee, not the executive, he did not have a say in final decisions which were made. Everyone who worked on PDCon07 worked extremely diligently for long hours over the period of a year. The amount of hours which I put in caused me some serious problems where I work and with my ongoing PhD thesis. Organising the papers sessions often felt like a completely thankless job and I had to question myself on a regular basis whether it was all worth it. To have it suggested flippantly - after all the blood, sweat and tears - that the selection process was somehow rigged or not fair is very distressing. It really hurts. I'm sure the other members of the executive feel the same way. At the end of the day, I justified it to myself this way: free and open-source tools like Pd are increasingly essential for musicians and artists to do their work. As someone who used to work in sculpture with wood, stone and steel, I know intimately that the quality of the work you do depends - amongst other factors - on having reliable tools. The same is true for computer music and media art. Commercial tools for computer music and media art are becoming increasingly expensive and unreliable at the same time. We need tools like Pd. At the same time it seems to me that Pd is at a crucial stage in its evolution and significant changes are happening. So, the papers sessions were seen as a way of enabling the important discussions which need to happen to go forward. I wanted to put the ideas proposed by the diverse members of the Pd community into a context of calm, respectful - yet vigourous - debate and discussion. I wanted to put the best ideas into the clear light; and let those ideas be seen and discussed based on their own merits. To enable this, the selection process had to be as fair and transparent as possible, and so it was. As I had nothing to do with the artistic selection process I cannot comment on that. I was, however, the papers chair and did manage that process so I will outline to you exactly how the decisions were made: 0. Calls for papers were made and 44 submissions were made via the web interface. 1. Suggestions for potential peer reviewers were requested from within the local Pd community. 2. A list of potential reviewers was compiled and invitations were made. 3. Slightly less than half of those invited did accept. 4. Submissions were assigned to reviewers with at least 3 reviewers per paper. (there was one exception to this as one of our reviewers bailed out at the last minute, this particular case was brought to the executive for discussion and the paper was in fact accepted) 5. Reviews were compiled and a cut-off score was decided (4.0 of a possible 6.0). All papers above this threshold were accepted. (Note: Matthieu Bouchard was listed as principle or secondary author on 4 submissions, 3 of which were accepted, all with a score of 4.0 or higher.) 6. A small number of papers below this threshold which broached subjects judged to be important to the Pd community.were accepted for reasons of universal interest and thematic consistency. A total of 26 papers were finally accepted. 7. The authors were informed of the results and comments from the reviewers were passed on. 8. Most authors re-submitted revised versions of their papers taking into account the comments of the reviewers. 9. Most authors did come and present at PDCon with a small number unable to attend due to financial or other issues. Anyone who has any questions, issues or complaints about the papers review process for PDCon07, please contact me directly at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anyone who has any questions, issues or complaints about the artistic review process for PDCon07, please contact Marc Fournel directly at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks once again to all who participated in PDCon07 and especially to those who submitted papers presented at PDCon and helped so greatly by reading and reviewing submissions for us. best regards, Andrew Brouse Louvain-la-Neuve, Belgium = Andrew Brouse PDCon07 Papers Chair [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PD] PDCon07 peer review process
ola, It really hurts. I'm sure the other members of the executive feel the same way. ok, i'm a bit sorry of this one, it was too easy and unfair to you... but, i dunno why someone should submit 4 papers (and also complain that his 4th one was refused ) when everything should have been grouped in 'improve your pd life with dd' ( which i profoundly doubt ). anyway, it's not your fault in any sense. saludos, sevy ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PDCon07 peer review process
On Tue, 2 Oct 2007, Andrew Brouse wrote: ( of course, when you're in the convention comittee and that you worked previously with all the curators out there ), This was brought to my attention and I feel I need to respond to it. Please don't waste your time and energy and motivation worrying about those gratuitous accusations. I have no interest in getting involved in personal squabbles here. (I suggest you take such things 'out back': off-list.) NO. I DO NOT WISH TO RECEIVE PRIVATE MAILS FROM THAT PERSON. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PDCon07 peer review process
hop, i dunno if i should be more honest here: i don't think we need any curator in a digital community like this, what is that introduced arbitrary judgements here ? ( of non practitioners ? ) yeh i don't want any curator to invite me, and i will not pay a beer to any of them... in fact, death to curators would be more honest if anyones remember, reni was _not_ a curator at all, she was a pd praticioner, and yeh she dived into pd see? i will not comment on any mtl produced performances here, hopefully, but if you want, there is more to come sevy Yves Degoyon wrote: ola, It really hurts. I'm sure the other members of the executive feel the same way. ok, i'm a bit sorry of this one, it was too easy and unfair to you... but, i dunno why someone should submit 4 papers (and also complain that his 4th one was refused ) when everything should have been grouped in 'improve your pd life with dd' ( which i profoundly doubt ). anyway, it's not your fault in any sense. saludos, sevy ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PDCon07 peer review process
ola, yeh i don't want any curator to invite me, and i will not pay a beer to any of them... sorry, i should have said here 'suck one of them dick', is that polite enough? to prove you abuse all the time of slave artists? but two things : the real question was 'do you know khanawake??' and what consciousness you have of any art in this world ? this i would like to know with the _emptyness_ of digital art --- ya basta, sevy ps : surprisingly, and without any curator, there will be pd operated systems there : http://solfest.proboards2.com/index.cgi?board=othersaction=printthread=1185530798 http://solfest.proboards2.com/index.cgi?board=othersaction=printthread=1185530798 ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PDCon07 peer review process
Yves Degoyon wrote: ola, yeh i don't want any curator to invite me, and i will not pay a beer to any of them... sorry, i should have said here 'suck one of them dick', is that polite enough? to prove you abuse all the time of slave artists? but two things : the real question was 'do you know khanawake??' and what consciousness you have of any art in this world ? this i would like to know with the _emptyness_ of digital art --- ya basta, sevy ps : surprisingly, and without any curator, there will be pd operated systems there : http://solfest.proboards2.com/index.cgi?board=othersaction=printthread=1185530798 http://solfest.proboards2.com/index.cgi?board=othersaction=printthread=1185530798 ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list btw, i never heard of you before pd convention, would you introduce yourself? i dunno why the pd community would be 'curated' by someone we never heard of. and are you working with pd or dd ? and do you know khanawake? well, answer if you like, i know you'll be shocked by some ( aparently ) violent words, but c'mon hey, you're not so superficial. sevy ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
