[PD] Raspberry Pi : DSP on the GPU ? (WAS : Message from the boss of Raspberry Pi Foundation !)
Hi again Katja, I just read through it. Couldn't find anything about having the GPU process some audio. It's really mostly about why it's a bad (or good) thing to keep the GPU closed-source (at least that's what I understand [?]). So I guess there isn't must we can do on our own to access the GPU. But then, what can Eben and his team do about it ? I'd like to know what answer we can give him. If he says just waiting for an application like this I am assuming that it must have aroused his interest somehow. And I believe that it would be great if people in the Pd community got involved. All I can provide is some testing, but others could contribute more (if i'm not mistaken, Miller Puckette did a great job fixing the analog out for instance). I think we should try and play a part in the development of the Pi. And if we're lucky we'll finally have that Pd box people have been dreaming about for years. Cheers, Pierre. 2013/2/9 katja katjavet...@gmail.com Hi Pierre, There has been intensive discussion about GPU processing on RPI: http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=33t=6188 Did you read it? In the light of this discussion, I wonder what Eben means when writing We have a bunch of GPU compute available on the device just waiting for an application like this. Anyway it's great they have put your project on RPi blog. You will be famous, Pi Massat! Congrats again. Katja On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Pierre Massat pimas...@gmail.com wrote: Dear all, Please read below the message I received from Eben Upton, the boss of Raspberry Pi foundation. It looks like he was impressed by the video I made, and he says that there's a possibility of letting the GPU do some DSP computation. I guess you'll all agree that this is awesome news. I have no idea how we can proceed now. I think i'm absolutely incapable of doing anything useful in this field, so i told him that i would transfer this message to you, hoping that Miller, HC, Katja (and others) would know what needs to be done. We should probably ask him if you guys could work directly with their developers. Let me know what you think. Cheers! Pierre. -- Forwarded message -- From: Eben Upton e...@raspberrypi.org Date: 2013/2/8 Subject: Re: RPi as multi-effects for guitar To: Pierre Massat pimas...@gmail.com Hi Pierre Awesome stuff - I think Liz is preparing a blog post about this as we speak. I'd be very interested in knowing a bit more about the DSP code that runs this stuff. We have a bunch of GPU compute available on the device just waiting for an application like this. Cheers Eben On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 2:29 AM, Pierre Massat pimas...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I write a blog about how to make guitar effects with computers running Pure Data in real-time. When I first heard about the Raspberry Pi I thought it would be great if I could use it for the same purpose. It would only be much cheaper, and much smaller than my current laptop, and could fit in my hand-made stompbox. Recent improvements in Raspbian have finally made this possible, and this makes me very happy ! The Raspberry Pi is now actually capable of running rather demanding Pure Data patches in (quasi-) real-time (at least with a latency that's low enough to play live with it). I quickly assembled a small patch to test it and make a video to demonstrate that it actually works very well. It is obviously not the use the RPi was originally intended for, but to me (and I'm sure to other musicians as well), this sounds like a revolution. I'm currently documenting my setup on my blog : - video : http://guitarextended.wordpress.com/2013/01/27/real-time-guitar-effects-with-raspberry-pi-pd-and-arduino/ - blog post about hardware : http://guitarextended.wordpress.com/2013/01/31/raspberry-pi-multi-effects-overview-of-the-setup/ There's no trick, the Pi really IS doing all the DSP work. A reader posted a comment to ask where the computer was :) I take this opportunity to thank the RPi foundation for all the good work you put in this amazing tiny thing. I see that the cam should be out in a few months, this is all very exciting. I'm sure the Pi has already changed the life of a lot of people ! Cheers, Pierre. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list 33D.gif___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Raspberry Pi : DSP on the GPU ? (WAS : Message from the boss of Raspberry Pi Foundation !)
GPUs are not made for very low latency processing of tiny chunks of data. Trying to run the GPU at 5k to 100k FPS on 256 bytes of data is not going to work well at all. Processing a few seconds of audio at once would show massive gains though. Just ask yourself - how many professional DAWs use the GPU to process their audio? Even the one sold by the company with full access to every part of the GPUs they put in their own computers? Also, I don't get the obsession with the Pi. There are now lots and lots of under $100 ARMv7 dual core (!) boards that run Linux and have way more I/O options. Why not get something not totally out of date to begin with? On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 7:51 AM, Pierre Massat pimas...@gmail.com wrote: Hi again Katja, I just read through it. Couldn't find anything about having the GPU process some audio. It's really mostly about why it's a bad (or good) thing to keep the GPU closed-source (at least that's what I understand [?]). So I guess there isn't must we can do on our own to access the GPU. But then, what can Eben and his team do about it ? I'd like to know what answer we can give him. If he says just waiting for an application like this I am assuming that it must have aroused his interest somehow. And I believe that it would be great if people in the Pd community got involved. All I can provide is some testing, but others could contribute more (if i'm not mistaken, Miller Puckette did a great job fixing the analog out for instance). I think we should try and play a part in the development of the Pi. And if we're lucky we'll finally have that Pd box people have been dreaming about for years. Cheers, Pierre. 2013/2/9 katja katjavet...@gmail.com Hi Pierre, There has been intensive discussion about GPU processing on RPI: http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=33t=6188 Did you read it? In the light of this discussion, I wonder what Eben means when writing We have a bunch of GPU compute available on the device just waiting for an application like this. Anyway it's great they have put your project on RPi blog. You will be famous, Pi Massat! Congrats again. Katja On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Pierre Massat pimas...@gmail.comwrote: Dear all, Please read below the message I received from Eben Upton, the boss of Raspberry Pi foundation. It looks like he was impressed by the video I made, and he says that there's a possibility of letting the GPU do some DSP computation. I guess you'll all agree that this is awesome news. I have no idea how we can proceed now. I think i'm absolutely incapable of doing anything useful in this field, so i told him that i would transfer this message to you, hoping that Miller, HC, Katja (and others) would know what needs to be done. We should probably ask him if you guys could work directly with their developers. Let me know what you think. Cheers! Pierre. -- Forwarded message -- From: Eben Upton e...@raspberrypi.org Date: 2013/2/8 Subject: Re: RPi as multi-effects for guitar To: Pierre Massat pimas...@gmail.com Hi Pierre Awesome stuff - I think Liz is preparing a blog post about this as we speak. I'd be very interested in knowing a bit more about the DSP code that runs this stuff. We have a bunch of GPU compute available on the device just waiting for an application like this. Cheers Eben On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 2:29 AM, Pierre Massat pimas...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I write a blog about how to make guitar effects with computers running Pure Data in real-time. When I first heard about the Raspberry Pi I thought it would be great if I could use it for the same purpose. It would only be much cheaper, and much smaller than my current laptop, and could fit in my hand-made stompbox. Recent improvements in Raspbian have finally made this possible, and this makes me very happy ! The Raspberry Pi is now actually capable of running rather demanding Pure Data patches in (quasi-) real-time (at least with a latency that's low enough to play live with it). I quickly assembled a small patch to test it and make a video to demonstrate that it actually works very well. It is obviously not the use the RPi was originally intended for, but to me (and I'm sure to other musicians as well), this sounds like a revolution. I'm currently documenting my setup on my blog : - video : http://guitarextended.wordpress.com/2013/01/27/real-time-guitar-effects-with-raspberry-pi-pd-and-arduino/ - blog post about hardware : http://guitarextended.wordpress.com/2013/01/31/raspberry-pi-multi-effects-overview-of-the-setup/ There's no trick, the Pi really IS doing all the DSP work. A reader posted a comment to ask where the computer was :) I take this opportunity to thank the RPi foundation for all the good work you put in this amazing tiny thing. I see that the cam should be out in a few months, this is all very
Re: [PD] Raspberry Pi : DSP on the GPU ? (WAS : Message from the boss of Raspberry Pi Foundation !)
Just a comment on Chris's last point: Also, I don't get the obsession with the Pi. There are now lots and lots of under $100 ARMv7 dual core (!) boards that run Linux and have way more I/O options. Why not get something not totally out of date to begin with? My personal reasons for being attracted to the Pi are, 1, that it's vastly better engineered and supported than other linux+ARM solutions I've seen; and 2, although I'm not sure about this, it seems to dissipate much less power than ARMV7 soutions making it easier to make standalone gadgets with it. cheers Miller ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Raspberry Pi : DSP on the GPU ? (WAS : Message from the boss of Raspberry Pi Foundation !)
hi, the only realtime audio tool which use GPU I knew is the one from LiquidSonic http://www.liquidsonics.com it uses CUDA to compute reverb with convolution This is the only application I found when I was interested in 3 years ago for my master thesis but it was the very first steps of CUDA, maybe more audio applications are available now, but I didn't heart and this tool works with a NVIDIA Geforce 8, far from RPi's GPU... cheers a -- do it yourself http://antoine.villeret.free.fr 2013/2/9 chris clepper cgclep...@gmail.com GPUs are not made for very low latency processing of tiny chunks of data. Trying to run the GPU at 5k to 100k FPS on 256 bytes of data is not going to work well at all. Processing a few seconds of audio at once would show massive gains though. Just ask yourself - how many professional DAWs use the GPU to process their audio? Even the one sold by the company with full access to every part of the GPUs they put in their own computers? Also, I don't get the obsession with the Pi. There are now lots and lots of under $100 ARMv7 dual core (!) boards that run Linux and have way more I/O options. Why not get something not totally out of date to begin with? On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 7:51 AM, Pierre Massat pimas...@gmail.com wrote: Hi again Katja, I just read through it. Couldn't find anything about having the GPU process some audio. It's really mostly about why it's a bad (or good) thing to keep the GPU closed-source (at least that's what I understand [?]). So I guess there isn't must we can do on our own to access the GPU. But then, what can Eben and his team do about it ? I'd like to know what answer we can give him. If he says just waiting for an application like this I am assuming that it must have aroused his interest somehow. And I believe that it would be great if people in the Pd community got involved. All I can provide is some testing, but others could contribute more (if i'm not mistaken, Miller Puckette did a great job fixing the analog out for instance). I think we should try and play a part in the development of the Pi. And if we're lucky we'll finally have that Pd box people have been dreaming about for years. Cheers, Pierre. 2013/2/9 katja katjavet...@gmail.com Hi Pierre, There has been intensive discussion about GPU processing on RPI: http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=33t=6188 Did you read it? In the light of this discussion, I wonder what Eben means when writing We have a bunch of GPU compute available on the device just waiting for an application like this. Anyway it's great they have put your project on RPi blog. You will be famous, Pi Massat! Congrats again. Katja On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Pierre Massat pimas...@gmail.comwrote: Dear all, Please read below the message I received from Eben Upton, the boss of Raspberry Pi foundation. It looks like he was impressed by the video I made, and he says that there's a possibility of letting the GPU do some DSP computation. I guess you'll all agree that this is awesome news. I have no idea how we can proceed now. I think i'm absolutely incapable of doing anything useful in this field, so i told him that i would transfer this message to you, hoping that Miller, HC, Katja (and others) would know what needs to be done. We should probably ask him if you guys could work directly with their developers. Let me know what you think. Cheers! Pierre. -- Forwarded message -- From: Eben Upton e...@raspberrypi.org Date: 2013/2/8 Subject: Re: RPi as multi-effects for guitar To: Pierre Massat pimas...@gmail.com Hi Pierre Awesome stuff - I think Liz is preparing a blog post about this as we speak. I'd be very interested in knowing a bit more about the DSP code that runs this stuff. We have a bunch of GPU compute available on the device just waiting for an application like this. Cheers Eben On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 2:29 AM, Pierre Massat pimas...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I write a blog about how to make guitar effects with computers running Pure Data in real-time. When I first heard about the Raspberry Pi I thought it would be great if I could use it for the same purpose. It would only be much cheaper, and much smaller than my current laptop, and could fit in my hand-made stompbox. Recent improvements in Raspbian have finally made this possible, and this makes me very happy ! The Raspberry Pi is now actually capable of running rather demanding Pure Data patches in (quasi-) real-time (at least with a latency that's low enough to play live with it). I quickly assembled a small patch to test it and make a video to demonstrate that it actually works very well. It is obviously not the use the RPi was originally intended for, but to me (and I'm sure to other musicians as well), this sounds like a revolution. I'm currently documenting my setup on my blog : - video :
[PD] Raspberry Pi : DSP on the GPU ? (WAS : Message from the boss of Raspberry Pi Foundation !)
Just as a side-note, and although this does not seem feasible on the RPi (at least yet), anybody generally interested in audio DSP on GPUs may want to have a look at: Savoija, Lauri, Vesa Valimaki, and Julius O. Smith. Audio Signal Processing Using Graphics Processing Units. *Journal of the Audio Engineering Society* 59.1-2 (2011): 3-19. In my experience, doing scientific computations by tricking a GPU into thinking that it's processing graphics (e.g. by using OpenGL), is quite painful. So in the absence of an official framework like OpenCL or CUDA, which provides a relatively simple means of abusing a GPU, chasing this one on the RPi would be a nightmare... Cheers, Jon. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Raspberry Pi : DSP on the GPU ? (WAS : Message from the boss of Raspberry Pi Foundation !)
From: Jonathan Sheaffer j...@jonsh.net To: pd-list@iem.at Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2013 12:55 PM Subject: [PD] Raspberry Pi : DSP on the GPU ? (WAS : Message from the boss of Raspberry Pi Foundation !) [...] In my experience, doing scientific computations by tricking a GPU into thinking that it's processing graphics (e.g. by using OpenGL), is quite painful. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_rig -Jonathan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Raspberry Pi : DSP on the GPU ? (WAS : Message from the boss of Raspberry Pi Foundation !)
Le 09/02/2013 18:55, Jonathan Sheaffer a écrit : Just as a side-note, and although this does not seem feasible on the RPi (at least yet), anybody generally interested in audio DSP on GPUs may want to have a look at: Savoija, Lauri, Vesa Valimaki, and Julius O. Smith. Audio Signal Processing Using Graphics Processing Units. /Journal of the Audio Engineering Society/ 59.1-2 (2011): 3-19. In my experience, doing scientific computations by tricking a GPU into thinking that it's processing graphics (e.g. by using OpenGL), is quite painful. So in the absence of an official framework like OpenCL or CUDA, which provides a relatively simple means of abusing a GPU, chasing this one on the RPi would be a nightmare... if your application can profit from parallel processing, and if you can run shaders, then GPGPU is not so complex. one can also have a look at Gem example : 10.glsl/10.GPGPU this will however not run on the pi. cheers c Cheers, Jon. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Raspberry Pi : DSP on the GPU ? (WAS : Message from the boss of Raspberry Pi Foundation !)
- Original Message - From: Miller Puckette m...@ucsd.edu To: chris clepper cgclep...@gmail.com Cc: pd-list pd-list@iem.at Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2013 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [PD] Raspberry Pi : DSP on the GPU ? (WAS : Message from the boss of Raspberry Pi Foundation !) Just a comment on Chris's last point: Also, I don't get the obsession with the Pi. There are now lots and lots of under $100 ARMv7 dual core (!) boards that run Linux and have way more I/O options. Why not get something not totally out of date to begin with? My personal reasons for being attracted to the Pi are, 1, that it's vastly better engineered and supported than other linux+ARM solutions I've seen; and 2, although I'm not sure about this, it seems to dissipate much less power than ARMV7 soutions making it easier to make standalone gadgets with it. So are there low-cost battery packs made to go with it that are plug and go? From what I read it sounds really tricky. -Jonathan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Raspberry Pi : DSP on the GPU ? (WAS : Message from the boss of Raspberry Pi Foundation !)
I/O options. Why not get something not totally out of date to begin with? My personal reasons for being attracted to the Pi are, 1, that it's vastly better engineered and supported than other linux+ARM solutions I've seen; and 2, although I'm not sure about this, it seems to dissipate much less power than ARMV7 soutions making it easier to make standalone gadgets with it. So are there low-cost battery packs made to go with it that are plug and go? From what I read it sounds really tricky. -Jonathan I don't know what specifically people are doig, just that there are projects popping up all the time in which people use Pis in autonomous devices that fly or drive around. I'm actually planneng to give this a first try myself tomorrow at Crashspace in LA (http://blog.crashspace.org/ - second posting down) - but I'll be borrowing a battery pack from Joe Deken of New Blankets who's helping instigate the event. cheers Miller ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
