Re: [PD] Sysex out problems (linux only)
You could try making it so that you don't send sysex messages on every change.. just poll for changes at a certain rate.. and only sent the most recent change at that rate? -Alex 2009/7/17 András Murányi muran...@gmail.com: 2009/7/8 Alex x37v.a...@gmail.com I think that pd's midi out doesn't take whole sysex messages though, you simply send a stream of bytes. This is how it has been working for me. I created an abstraction which takes a list of bytes and makes it into a sysex message (stream of bytes) [adds the sysex start and start and then outputs bytes one by one] and it works quite well for me. If it's your list2sysex abstraction then I have already witnessed and tried it...! So far with not more success than using a comma-separated list. Btw, the sysex loopback code [using the software through] that you sent initially does work for me.. I get the whole message. Hmm! Now I think I will have to try with some reliable midi-out hardware as the the Audigy is rumoured to eat up sysex and my MOTU is going crazy, not to mention that it does jack-midi only and the a2jmidid bridge is not so very good with other than simple and slow tunes. Now that i'm trying with a Midisport everything is OK. Another thing was that i was a bit lost in Yamaha's midi spec for the mu100 but i've found it out. ;) However now i see that pd's performace is becoming really waving as i'm tring to pump out more midi data. My old-new questions would be: - Provided that a knob is directly driving a sysex pattern which spits out way more data than necessary, who do i best slow down my data, staying realtime? I guess i shall drop some of it somehow, or i shall kinda resample the datastream. Could you Sirs recommend an economic way to do this? - My machine is a moderate powerhouse (Opteron 148 @2200, 4G), my kernel is rt and audio in pd is off however performance is waving, and my simple sequencer is becoming unstable. What are the crucial points of keeping the patch 'fast', where do you think i generally lose the most cpu? Thanks, Andras ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Sysex out problems (linux only)
2009/7/8 Alex x37v.a...@gmail.com I think that pd's midi out doesn't take whole sysex messages though, you simply send a stream of bytes. This is how it has been working for me. I created an abstraction which takes a list of bytes and makes it into a sysex message (stream of bytes) [adds the sysex start and start and then outputs bytes one by one] and it works quite well for me. If it's your list2sysex abstraction then I have already witnessed and tried it...! So far with not more success than using a comma-separated list. Btw, the sysex loopback code [using the software through] that you sent initially does work for me.. I get the whole message. Hmm! Now I think I will have to try with some reliable midi-out hardware as the the Audigy is rumoured to eat up sysex and my MOTU is going crazy, not to mention that it does jack-midi only and the a2jmidid bridge is not so very good with other than simple and slow tunes. Now that i'm trying with a Midisport everything is OK. Another thing was that i was a bit lost in Yamaha's midi spec for the mu100 but i've found it out. ;) However now i see that pd's performace is becoming really waving as i'm tring to pump out more midi data. My old-new questions would be: - Provided that a knob is directly driving a sysex pattern which spits out way more data than necessary, who do i best slow down my data, staying realtime? I guess i shall drop some of it somehow, or i shall kinda resample the datastream. Could you Sirs recommend an economic way to do this? - My machine is a moderate powerhouse (Opteron 148 @2200, 4G), my kernel is rt and audio in pd is off however performance is waving, and my simple sequencer is becoming unstable. What are the crucial points of keeping the patch 'fast', where do you think i generally lose the most cpu? Thanks, Andras ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Sysex out problems (linux only)
2009/7/8 Martin Peach martin.pe...@sympatico.ca András Murányi wrote: Dear Sirs, I just have never been successful with sysex in Pd and I'm asking for your kind advice. Attached is an example for a long sysex message which goes out on [midiout] (linux only, afaik). The problems I have: - sysex gets fragmented (also when nothing is sent out meanwhile by other objects). It is always properly terminated with '247' but the content is often truncated. Is this a bug/feature...? What is your best recommendation knowing that my patch is full of sysex outs (+envelopes on some of them!) in the patch you posted, the message you send to [midiout] is [240,67,16,73,8,$2,19,$1,247( , which Pd takes as 9 separate messages because of the comma in between each item. Probably [240 67 16 73 8 $2 19 $1 247( would work better. Dear Martin, that is how it goes afaik, sysex is kind of a sequence, which is comma separated as discussed here: http://puredata.hurleur.com/sujet-417-sysex I just cannot prove it as i have never seen sysex out working :o) -- Muranyi Andras ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Sysex out problems (linux only)
András Murányi wrote: 2009/7/8 Martin Peach martin.pe...@sympatico.ca mailto:martin.pe...@sympatico.ca András Murányi wrote: Dear Sirs, I just have never been successful with sysex in Pd and I'm asking for your kind advice. Attached is an example for a long sysex message which goes out on [midiout] (linux only, afaik). The problems I have: - sysex gets fragmented (also when nothing is sent out meanwhile by other objects). It is always properly terminated with '247' but the content is often truncated. Is this a bug/feature...? What is your best recommendation knowing that my patch is full of sysex outs (+envelopes on some of them!) in the patch you posted, the message you send to [midiout] is [240,67,16,73,8,$2,19,$1,247( , which Pd takes as 9 separate messages because of the comma in between each item. Probably [240 67 16 73 8 $2 19 $1 247( would work better. Dear Martin, that is how it goes afaik, sysex is kind of a sequence, which is comma separated Yes and no: sysex is a sequence that starts with the value 240 (hex F0) followed by a number of bytes, each less than 128, and ends with 247 (hex F7). There are no commas in it unless the message contains commas. (If you really want to send commas you would need to specify the ASCII code for a comma, 44.) As far as Pd goes, separating items in a message box makes them into separate messages, so it's no surprise they get sent out separately. Martin ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Sysex out problems (linux only)
I think that pd's midi out doesn't take whole sysex messages though, you simply send a stream of bytes. This is how it has been working for me. I created an abstraction which takes a list of bytes and makes it into a sysex message (stream of bytes) [adds the sysex start and start and then outputs bytes one by one] and it works quite well for me. I've attached it just as an example. Btw, the sysex loopback code [using the software through] that you sent initially does work for me.. I get the whole message. -Alex 2009/7/8 Martin Peach martin.pe...@sympatico.ca: András Murányi wrote: 2009/7/8 Martin Peach martin.pe...@sympatico.ca mailto:martin.pe...@sympatico.ca András Murányi wrote: Dear Sirs, I just have never been successful with sysex in Pd and I'm asking for your kind advice. Attached is an example for a long sysex message which goes out on [midiout] (linux only, afaik). The problems I have: - sysex gets fragmented (also when nothing is sent out meanwhile by other objects). It is always properly terminated with '247' but the content is often truncated. Is this a bug/feature...? What is your best recommendation knowing that my patch is full of sysex outs (+envelopes on some of them!) in the patch you posted, the message you send to [midiout] is [240,67,16,73,8,$2,19,$1,247( , which Pd takes as 9 separate messages because of the comma in between each item. Probably [240 67 16 73 8 $2 19 $1 247( would work better. Dear Martin, that is how it goes afaik, sysex is kind of a sequence, which is comma separated Yes and no: sysex is a sequence that starts with the value 240 (hex F0) followed by a number of bytes, each less than 128, and ends with 247 (hex F7). There are no commas in it unless the message contains commas. (If you really want to send commas you would need to specify the ASCII code for a comma, 44.) As far as Pd goes, separating items in a message box makes them into separate messages, so it's no surprise they get sent out separately. Martin ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Sysex out problems (linux only)
Dear Sirs, I just have never been successful with sysex in Pd and I'm asking for your kind advice. Attached is an example for a long sysex message which goes out on [midiout] (linux only, afaik). The problems I have: - sysex gets fragmented (also when nothing is sent out meanwhile by other objects). It is always properly terminated with '247' but the content is often truncated. Is this a bug/feature...? What is your best recommendation knowing that my patch is full of sysex outs (+envelopes on some of them!) - sysex just magically does not work on the target machine ;o) I have no clue why except for this thing with being truncated but it *never* works even if the message seems to go out intact. Even more interesting that the machine shows me that it is recieving sysex! Tried with the mpu-401 of an Audigy and with a MOTU 828 mkII through Jack and a2jmidid (jack-alsa midi bridge). Sysex is Thanks a Lot! -- Muranyi Andras #N canvas 311 74 791 688 10; #X obj 123 177 midiout; #X obj 162 143 nbx 2 14 0 16 0 0 empty empty device 0 -6 0 10 -262144 -1 -1 0 256; #X floatatom 123 35 0 0 127 0 - - -; #N canvas 401 346 945 646 (subpatch) 0; #X obj 0 56 outlet; #X obj 0 -24 inlet; #X obj 1 1 mknob 16 0 0 127 0 0 empty empty Rev 1 21 1 8 -261682 -1 -1 3126 1; #X obj 0 32 int; #X connect 1 0 2 0; #X connect 2 0 3 0; #X connect 3 0 0 0; #X coords 0 1 100 -1 18 26 1 0 0; #X restore 123 6 graph; #X obj 123 55 pack 0 0; #X msg 123 99 240 \, 67 \, 16 \, 73 \, 8 \, \$2 \, 19 \, \$1 \, 247 ; #X floatatom 168 35 0 0 127 0 - - -; #N canvas 405 346 945 646 (subpatch) 0; #X obj 0 56 outlet; #X obj 0 -24 inlet; #X obj 1 1 mknob 16 0 0 16 0 0 empty empty Chn 1 21 1 8 -228856 -1 -1 0 1; #X obj 0 32 int; #X connect 1 0 2 0; #X connect 2 0 3 0; #X connect 3 0 0 0; #X coords 0 1 100 -1 18 26 1 0 0; #X restore 168 6 graph; #X obj 124 220 sysexin; #X obj 314 217 notein; #X obj 314 280 print NOTE; #X obj 124 281 print SYSE; #X text 329 249 Play your favourite sequencer along; #X text 94 197 SW or HW LOOPBACK; #X text 348 98 Yamaha MU100 Reverb Send sysex - never mind \; o); #X connect 1 0 0 1; #X connect 2 0 4 0; #X connect 3 0 2 0; #X connect 4 0 5 0; #X connect 5 0 0 0; #X connect 6 0 4 1; #X connect 7 0 6 0; #X connect 8 0 11 0; #X connect 9 0 10 0; ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Sysex out problems (linux only)
I haven't actually tested sysex out limits, but sysex in is limited to something like 24 byte messages.. here is a thread where i talk about it: http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2009-01/067372.html It is hard coded into the source. You can modify the source to change the hard coded limit.. i have a diff on that thread which shows how i did it. It would be nice if this limit was either totally removed or dynamically growable.. as it would be really nice to be able to write real sysex editors in PD. I have been creating my own physical devices with sysex and I use pd to edit the sysex data but i have to make my sysex packets short because of PD's limitations. -Alex 2009/7/7 András Murányi muran...@gmail.com: Dear Sirs, I just have never been successful with sysex in Pd and I'm asking for your kind advice. Attached is an example for a long sysex message which goes out on [midiout] (linux only, afaik). The problems I have: - sysex gets fragmented (also when nothing is sent out meanwhile by other objects). It is always properly terminated with '247' but the content is often truncated. Is this a bug/feature...? What is your best recommendation knowing that my patch is full of sysex outs (+envelopes on some of them!) - sysex just magically does not work on the target machine ;o) I have no clue why except for this thing with being truncated but it *never* works even if the message seems to go out intact. Even more interesting that the machine shows me that it is recieving sysex! Tried with the mpu-401 of an Audigy and with a MOTU 828 mkII through Jack and a2jmidid (jack-alsa midi bridge). Sysex is Thanks a Lot! -- Muranyi Andras ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Sysex out problems (linux only)
2009/7/8 Alex x37v.a...@gmail.com - sysex gets fragmented (also when nothing is sent out meanwhile by other objects). It is always properly terminated with '247' but the content is often truncated. Is this a bug/feature...? What is your best recommendation knowing that my patch is full of sysex outs (+envelopes on some of them!) - sysex just magically does not work on the target machine ;o) I have no clue why except for this thing with being truncated but it *never* works even if the message seems to go out intact. Even more interesting that the machine shows me that it is recieving sysex! Tried with the mpu-401 of an Audigy and with a MOTU 828 mkII through Jack and a2jmidid (jack-alsa midi bridge). I haven't actually tested sysex out limits, but sysex in is limited to something like 24 byte messages.. here is a thread where i talk about it: http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2009-01/067372.html It is hard coded into the source. You can modify the source to change the hard coded limit.. i have a diff on that thread which shows how i did it. Thanks Alex, it's an important thing to know. My sysex is shorter than 24B it's just broken. What we shall see repeating is 240 67 16 73 8 16 19 (knobvalue) 247 Instead I'm having this grinded mess coming back on physical loopback: print: 240 print: 67 print: 16 print: 247 print: 240 print: 67 print: 247 print: 240 print: 67 print: 16 print: 247 print: 240 print: 67 print: 16 print: 73 print: 247 print: 240 print: 67 print: 16 print: 73 print: 8 print: 247 print: 240 print: 67 print: 16 print: 73 print: 247 print: 240 print: 67 print: 16 print: 247 print: 240 print: 67 print: 16 print: 247 print: 240 print: 67 print: 16 print: 73 print: 8 print: 247 print: 240 print: 67 print: 16 print: 247 print: 240 print: 67 print: 16 print: 73 print: 247 print: 240 print: 67 print: 16 print: 73 print: 247 print: 240 print: 67 print: 16 print: 73 print: 247 This makes me think I'm trying to send too much data in too short intervals...? Is there a handy way to limit the density of my output? (i think its not not [drip] as it has to stay realtime) I'm not very experienced, sorry if this traces back to something very obvious! -- Muranyi Andras ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Sysex out problems (linux only)
It looks like you may experiencing another thing that i've complained about... pd's alsa midi connects to all MIDI inputs and outputs that it can.. this includes alsa's MIDI through.. so everything that you send out gets echoed back into the input.. SUPER annoying. run aconnect [or easier, though not great, aconnectgui] and see if that is the case for you.. disconnect pd from the alsa through port. -Alex 2009/7/7 András Murányi muran...@gmail.com: 2009/7/8 Alex x37v.a...@gmail.com - sysex gets fragmented (also when nothing is sent out meanwhile by other objects). It is always properly terminated with '247' but the content is often truncated. Is this a bug/feature...? What is your best recommendation knowing that my patch is full of sysex outs (+envelopes on some of them!) - sysex just magically does not work on the target machine ;o) I have no clue why except for this thing with being truncated but it *never* works even if the message seems to go out intact. Even more interesting that the machine shows me that it is recieving sysex! Tried with the mpu-401 of an Audigy and with a MOTU 828 mkII through Jack and a2jmidid (jack-alsa midi bridge). I haven't actually tested sysex out limits, but sysex in is limited to something like 24 byte messages.. here is a thread where i talk about it: http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2009-01/067372.html It is hard coded into the source. You can modify the source to change the hard coded limit.. i have a diff on that thread which shows how i did it. Thanks Alex, it's an important thing to know. My sysex is shorter than 24B it's just broken. What we shall see repeating is 240 67 16 73 8 16 19 (knobvalue) 247 Instead I'm having this grinded mess coming back on physical loopback: print: 240 print: 67 print: 16 print: 247 print: 240 print: 67 print: 247 print: 240 print: 67 print: 16 print: 247 print: 240 print: 67 print: 16 print: 73 print: 247 print: 240 print: 67 print: 16 print: 73 print: 8 print: 247 print: 240 print: 67 print: 16 print: 73 print: 247 print: 240 print: 67 print: 16 print: 247 print: 240 print: 67 print: 16 print: 247 print: 240 print: 67 print: 16 print: 73 print: 8 print: 247 print: 240 print: 67 print: 16 print: 247 print: 240 print: 67 print: 16 print: 73 print: 247 print: 240 print: 67 print: 16 print: 73 print: 247 print: 240 print: 67 print: 16 print: 73 print: 247 This makes me think I'm trying to send too much data in too short intervals...? Is there a handy way to limit the density of my output? (i think its not not [drip] as it has to stay realtime) I'm not very experienced, sorry if this traces back to something very obvious! -- Muranyi Andras ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Sysex out problems (linux only)
2009/7/8 Alex x37v.a...@gmail.com It looks like you may experiencing another thing that i've complained about... pd's alsa midi connects to all MIDI inputs and outputs that it can.. this includes alsa's MIDI through.. so everything that you send out gets echoed back into the input.. SUPER annoying. run aconnect [or easier, though not great, aconnectgui] and see if that is the case for you.. disconnect pd from the alsa through port. I've checked and it's ok. Right now have the output looped back with a cable but it only comes back once. This makes me think I'm trying to send too much data in too short intervals...? Is there a handy way to limit the density of my output? (i think its not not [drip] as it has to stay realtime) What about dropping some data before making up / sending out the sysex? My best guess was storing into [float] and firing it with [metro] or [pulse] at a constant, decent rate. -- Muranyi Andras ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
