GESO, fall colour walk

[David J Brooks]

I re upped to our local camera club for this year. I had taken a year
off, but missed the monthly outings, and since i have been unable to
motivate my self, i have decided to let others do that for me.:-)
Did a fall colour walk in the Rouge valley woodlands trail Saturday
with about 8 others. Easy peazy trail along the river but a lot of
photo ops. Weather was heavy overcast at the Tine and it started to
rain near the end of the walk.

http://www.caughtinmotion.com/2015-SCC1/album/index.html

Colour shots K5 with Sigma 17-70 (which has now started to mis behave
like the Pentax version did, focus fine for a while then ver
slowww to focus. It has been repaired once after i dropped it  and
i think it needs another trip to Gentec for a look see.

B shots from the Fuji X30

Dave

-- 
Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
www.caughtinmotion.com
http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
York Region, Ontario, Canada

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Re: Pentax Sighting

[knarf]

We don't have cable or broadcast TV (now that it's gone digital our rabbit ears 
are gone). I'll take your word for it.

Betty White is still working? That's amazing. 

Cheers,

frank

On October 25, 2015 12:05:58 AM EDT, "P.J. Alling"  
wrote:
>I'm watching the episode of the TV series Bones and guest star Betty 
>White is using what appears to be a Storm Trooper K-30.  Just thought 
>I'd share.

-- 

"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson

Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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Re: Pentax Sighting

[David J Brooks]

saw the episode, but missed that

On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 12:05 AM, P.J. Alling
 wrote:
> I'm watching the episode of the TV series Bones and guest star Betty White
> is using what appears to be a Storm Trooper K-30.  Just thought I'd share.
>
> --
> I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve
> immortality through not dying.
> -- Woody Allen
>
>
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> follow the directions.



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Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
www.caughtinmotion.com
http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
York Region, Ontario, Canada

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Re: GESO, fall colour walk

[David J Brooks]

On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 8:47 AM, Jack Davis  wrote:
> Nice shots, David! Too bad about the overcast.
>
> J

Thanks. As Charles Braswell once said, "bad weather makes for good photos."

Dave
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "David J Brooks" 
> To: "Pentax Discuss" 
> Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 5:26:19 AM
> Subject: GESO, fall colour walk
>
> I re upped to our local camera club for this year. I had taken a year
> off, but missed the monthly outings, and since i have been unable to
> motivate my self, i have decided to let others do that for me.:-)
> Did a fall colour walk in the Rouge valley woodlands trail Saturday
> with about 8 others. Easy peazy trail along the river but a lot of
> photo ops. Weather was heavy overcast at the Tine and it started to
> rain near the end of the walk.
>
> http://www.caughtinmotion.com/2015-SCC1/album/index.html
>
> Colour shots K5 with Sigma 17-70 (which has now started to mis behave
> like the Pentax version did, focus fine for a while then ver
> slowww to focus. It has been repaired once after i dropped it  and
> i think it needs another trip to Gentec for a look see.
>
> B shots from the Fuji X30
>
> Dave
>
> --
> Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
> www.caughtinmotion.com
> http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
> York Region, Ontario, Canada
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.
>
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> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.



-- 
Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
www.caughtinmotion.com
http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
York Region, Ontario, Canada

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Re: GESO, fall colour walk

[David J Brooks]

I think we were about a week late.

On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 9:05 AM, knarf  wrote:
> Nice shots, Dave.
>
> Looks like your walk missed the peak of colours but you made the best of it.
>
> Cheers,
>
> frank
>
> On October 25, 2015 8:26:19 AM EDT, David J Brooks  
> wrote:
>>I re upped to our local camera club for this year. I had taken a year
>>off, but missed the monthly outings, and since i have been unable to
>>motivate my self, i have decided to let others do that for me.:-)
>>Did a fall colour walk in the Rouge valley woodlands trail Saturday
>>with about 8 others. Easy peazy trail along the river but a lot of
>>photo ops. Weather was heavy overcast at the Tine and it started to
>>rain near the end of the walk.
>>
>>http://www.caughtinmotion.com/2015-SCC1/album/index.html
>>
>>Colour shots K5 with Sigma 17-70 (which has now started to mis behave
>>like the Pentax version did, focus fine for a while then ver
>>slowww to focus. It has been repaired once after i dropped it  and
>>i think it needs another trip to Gentec for a look see.
>>
>>B shots from the Fuji X30
>>
>>Dave
>
> --
>
> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson
>
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
> --
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> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.



-- 
Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
www.caughtinmotion.com
http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
York Region, Ontario, Canada

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Re: GESO, fall colour walk

[Jack Davis]

Nice shots, David! Too bad about the overcast.

J

- Original Message -
From: "David J Brooks" 
To: "Pentax Discuss" 
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 5:26:19 AM
Subject: GESO, fall colour walk

I re upped to our local camera club for this year. I had taken a year
off, but missed the monthly outings, and since i have been unable to
motivate my self, i have decided to let others do that for me.:-)
Did a fall colour walk in the Rouge valley woodlands trail Saturday
with about 8 others. Easy peazy trail along the river but a lot of
photo ops. Weather was heavy overcast at the Tine and it started to
rain near the end of the walk.

http://www.caughtinmotion.com/2015-SCC1/album/index.html

Colour shots K5 with Sigma 17-70 (which has now started to mis behave
like the Pentax version did, focus fine for a while then ver
slowww to focus. It has been repaired once after i dropped it  and
i think it needs another trip to Gentec for a look see.

B shots from the Fuji X30

Dave

-- 
Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
www.caughtinmotion.com
http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
York Region, Ontario, Canada

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Re: GESO, fall colour walk

[knarf]

I'm sure Charles said it but Hugh Morton said it first.

I doubt the late Mr. Morton was the first to say it but I'll attribute it to 
him.

LOL!

Cheers, 

frank 

On October 25, 2015 8:51:21 AM EDT, David J Brooks  wrote:
>
>Thanks. As Charles Braswell once said, "bad weather makes for good
>photos."
>
>Dave
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "David J Brooks" 
>> To: "Pentax Discuss" 
>> Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 5:26:19 AM
>> Subject: GESO, fall colour walk
>>
>> I re upped to our local camera club for this year. I had taken a year
>> off, but missed the monthly outings, and since i have been unable to
>> motivate my self, i have decided to let others do that for me.:-)
>> Did a fall colour walk in the Rouge valley woodlands trail Saturday
>> with about 8 others. Easy peazy trail along the river but a lot of
>> photo ops. Weather was heavy overcast at the Tine and it started to
>> rain near the end of the walk.
>>
>> http://www.caughtinmotion.com/2015-SCC1/album/index.html
>>
>> Colour shots K5 with Sigma 17-70 (which has now started to mis behave
>> like the Pentax version did, focus fine for a while then ver
>> slowww to focus. It has been repaired once after i dropped it 
>and
>> i think it needs another trip to Gentec for a look see.
>>
>> B shots from the Fuji X30
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> --
>> Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
>> www.caughtinmotion.com
>> http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
>> York Region, Ontario, Canada
>>
>> --
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> PDML@pdml.net
>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above
>and follow the directions.
>>
>> --
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>> PDML@pdml.net
>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above
>and follow the directions.

-- 

"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson

Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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Re: GESO, fall colour walk

[knarf]

Nice shots, Dave. 

Looks like your walk missed the peak of colours but you made the best of it.

Cheers,

frank

On October 25, 2015 8:26:19 AM EDT, David J Brooks  wrote:
>I re upped to our local camera club for this year. I had taken a year
>off, but missed the monthly outings, and since i have been unable to
>motivate my self, i have decided to let others do that for me.:-)
>Did a fall colour walk in the Rouge valley woodlands trail Saturday
>with about 8 others. Easy peazy trail along the river but a lot of
>photo ops. Weather was heavy overcast at the Tine and it started to
>rain near the end of the walk.
>
>http://www.caughtinmotion.com/2015-SCC1/album/index.html
>
>Colour shots K5 with Sigma 17-70 (which has now started to mis behave
>like the Pentax version did, focus fine for a while then ver
>slowww to focus. It has been repaired once after i dropped it  and
>i think it needs another trip to Gentec for a look see.
>
>B shots from the Fuji X30
>
>Dave

-- 

"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson

Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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Re: PESO - A Single Among Couples

[knarf]

I don't think it's an abstract either, but it's a striking piece. I love the 
geometry and colours.

Cheers,

frank

frank

On October 25, 2015 12:50:24 AM EDT, Marco Alpert  wrote:
>Personally, I’m not sure I’d characterize it as an abstract, but a very
>pleasing image nonetheless.
>
>m
>
>On Oct 24, 2015, at 1:57 PM, Bulent Celasun 
>wrote:
>
>> Color. Abstract.
>> 
>> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=18114919
>> 
>> Ricoh GXR A12.
>> 
>> Comments appreciated, as always.
>> 
>> Bulent
>> -
>> http://patoloji.gen.tr
>> http://celasun.wordpress.com/
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bc_the_path/
>> http://photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=2226822
>> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/artists/bulentcelasun
>> 
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>and follow the directions.
>> 

-- 

"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson

Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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Re: Geso Crazy Horse in the Black Hills

[Bob W-PDML]

Only just looked at this picture. The horse looks like My Little Pony. 
Revolting.

B

> On 25 Oct 2015, at 22:35, steve harley  wrote:
> 
>> On 2015-10-24 10:03 , Donald Guthrie wrote:
>> On the subject of statues carved out of the hillside this one is among the
>> controversial set. Is it the hopeless dream that will be never completed,
>> another hideous artwork, or a great tribute to Native Americans who have
>> blessed the project. It is being done entirely with private funding &
>> contributions. But many complain that more money has been spent on the
>> observation point than on the carving.
>> 
>> These photos were all taken in September 2015 from the observation building
>> which is a mile from the statue.
>> 
>> https://www.flickr.com/gp/valdon/340104
> 
> nice presentation, good to see some of the context (visitor center, scale 
> model)
> 
> i've been there, and i agree with some other replies the wholesale 
> destruction of the mountain is astonishing to view, but i put it in 
> perspective because this is actually a tiny impact compared to many other, 
> less-often criticized, human projects; personally, i find Mt. Rushmore more 
> controversial as it is on land that was taken by the U.S. in the breaking of 
> a treaty, so the sculpture overtly symbolizes white man's conquests
> 
> the backstory of the Crazy Horse monument is almost more interesting than the 
> monument itself
> 
> 

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Re: Geso Crazy Horse in the Black Hills

[knarf]

Does that make Crazy Horse a Brony?

Cheers,

frank

On October 25, 2015 8:55:22 PM EDT, Bob W-PDML  wrote:
>Only just looked at this picture. The horse looks like My Little Pony.
>Revolting.
>
>B
>
>> On 25 Oct 2015, at 22:35, steve harley  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2015-10-24 10:03 , Donald Guthrie wrote:
>>> On the subject of statues carved out of the hillside this one is
>among the
>>> controversial set. Is it the hopeless dream that will be never
>completed,
>>> another hideous artwork, or a great tribute to Native Americans who
>have
>>> blessed the project. It is being done entirely with private funding
>&
>>> contributions. But many complain that more money has been spent on
>the
>>> observation point than on the carving.
>>> 
>>> These photos were all taken in September 2015 from the observation
>building
>>> which is a mile from the statue.
>>> 
>>> https://www.flickr.com/gp/valdon/340104
>> 
>> nice presentation, good to see some of the context (visitor center,
>scale model)
>> 
>> i've been there, and i agree with some other replies the wholesale
>destruction of the mountain is astonishing to view, but i put it in
>perspective because this is actually a tiny impact compared to many
>other, less-often criticized, human projects; personally, i find Mt.
>Rushmore more controversial as it is on land that was taken by the U.S.
>in the breaking of a treaty, so the sculpture overtly symbolizes white
>man's conquests
>> 
>> the backstory of the Crazy Horse monument is almost more interesting
>than the monument itself
>> 
>> 

-- 

"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson

Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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Re: Geso Crazy Horse in the Black Hills

[Daniel J. Matyola]

On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 4:30 PM, knarf  wrote:
> There are some places that it's best tourists ~not~ go to.

Well, It's goo that we of the unwashed masses have men of taste and
virtue to tell us where we should and should not go.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola

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Re: GESO, fall colour walk

[Rick Womer]

Nice colors, Dave. Unless one can get the leaves backlit, I think overcast 
works best.

About the presentation: The small size is way too small, and the large size has 
lots of jpg compression jaggies. Look at 7713 at full size, for example; it 
looks as though aluminum or carbon-fiber-eating termites have been going after 
the guy's tripod. 

Rick

On Oct 25, 2015, at 8:26 AM, David J Brooks wrote:

> I re upped to our local camera club for this year. I had taken a year
> off, but missed the monthly outings, and since i have been unable to
> motivate my self, i have decided to let others do that for me.:-)
> Did a fall colour walk in the Rouge valley woodlands trail Saturday
> with about 8 others. Easy peazy trail along the river but a lot of
> photo ops. Weather was heavy overcast at the Tine and it started to
> rain near the end of the walk.
> 
> http://www.caughtinmotion.com/2015-SCC1/album/index.html
> 
> Colour shots K5 with Sigma 17-70 (which has now started to mis behave
> like the Pentax version did, focus fine for a while then ver
> slowww to focus. It has been repaired once after i dropped it  and
> i think it needs another trip to Gentec for a look see.
> 
> B shots from the Fuji X30
> 
> Dave
> 
> -- 
> Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
> www.caughtinmotion.com
> http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
> York Region, Ontario, Canada
> 
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.

http://photo.net/photos/RickW



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Re: Geso Crazy Horse in the Black Hills

[knarf]

I'm merely expressing an opinion, Dan. I'm not telling you or anyone else what 
to do.

I've never claimed to have taste and believe me, I'm hardly virtuous.

LOL!

Cheers, 

frank 



On October 25, 2015 10:58:11 PM EDT, "Daniel J. Matyola"  
wrote:
>On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 4:30 PM, knarf 
>wrote:
>> There are some places that it's best tourists ~not~ go to.
>
>Well, It's goo that we of the unwashed masses have men of taste and
>virtue to tell us where we should and should not go.
>
>Dan Matyola
>http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola

-- 

"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson

Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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Re: Geso Crazy Horse in the Black Hills

[steve harley]

On 2015-10-24 10:03 , Donald Guthrie wrote:

On the subject of statues carved out of the hillside this one is among the
controversial set. Is it the hopeless dream that will be never completed,
another hideous artwork, or a great tribute to Native Americans who have
blessed the project. It is being done entirely with private funding &
contributions. But many complain that more money has been spent on the
observation point than on the carving.

These photos were all taken in September 2015 from the observation building
which is a mile from the statue.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/valdon/340104


nice presentation, good to see some of the context (visitor center, scale model)

i've been there, and i agree with some other replies the wholesale 
destruction of the mountain is astonishing to view, but i put it in 
perspective because this is actually a tiny impact compared to many other, 
less-often criticized, human projects; personally, i find Mt. Rushmore more 
controversial as it is on land that was taken by the U.S. in the breaking of 
a treaty, so the sculpture overtly symbolizes white man's conquests


the backstory of the Crazy Horse monument is almost more interesting than 
the monument itself


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Re: Geso Crazy Horse in the Black Hills

[Paul Stenquist]

Yeah, aesthetically it leaves a lot to be desired.

Paul via phone

> On Oct 25, 2015, at 8:55 PM, Bob W-PDML  wrote:
> 
> Only just looked at this picture. The horse looks like My Little Pony. 
> Revolting.
> 
> B
> 
>>> On 25 Oct 2015, at 22:35, steve harley  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 2015-10-24 10:03 , Donald Guthrie wrote:
>>> On the subject of statues carved out of the hillside this one is among the
>>> controversial set. Is it the hopeless dream that will be never completed,
>>> another hideous artwork, or a great tribute to Native Americans who have
>>> blessed the project. It is being done entirely with private funding &
>>> contributions. But many complain that more money has been spent on the
>>> observation point than on the carving.
>>> 
>>> These photos were all taken in September 2015 from the observation building
>>> which is a mile from the statue.
>>> 
>>> https://www.flickr.com/gp/valdon/340104
>> 
>> nice presentation, good to see some of the context (visitor center, scale 
>> model)
>> 
>> i've been there, and i agree with some other replies the wholesale 
>> destruction of the mountain is astonishing to view, but i put it in 
>> perspective because this is actually a tiny impact compared to many other, 
>> less-often criticized, human projects; personally, i find Mt. Rushmore more 
>> controversial as it is on land that was taken by the U.S. in the breaking of 
>> a treaty, so the sculpture overtly symbolizes white man's conquests
>> 
>> the backstory of the Crazy Horse monument is almost more interesting than 
>> the monument itself
> 
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> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
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Re: Geso Crazy Horse in the Black Hills

[Bob W-PDML]

So far anyway

> On 25 Oct 2015, at 20:15, knarf  wrote:
> 
> Nature always "wins". One way or the other...
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> frank
> 
>> On October 25, 2015 2:47:17 PM EDT, Jack Davis  wrote:
>> Time will eventually replace it all.
>> 
>> J
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Oct 25, 2015, at 10:43 AM, Paul Stenquist
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> By extension one could argue that the cave paintings of early humans
>> desecrated nature. Mankind leaves it's mark and writes a history for
>> better or worse. It's the way of the world.
>>> 
>>> Paul via phone
>>> 
 On Oct 25, 2015, at 11:59 AM, John  wrote:
 
 According to Wikipedia, encouraging tourism was the original reason
>> for creating it.
 
 
> On 10/24/2015 5:40 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote:
> Ann,
> You need to get over it.
> The sculpture has brought thousands (millions) out to look at the
>> Black Hills.
> Otherwise, folks would never go there.
> Regards,  Bob S.
> 
>> On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 4:34 PM, ann sanfedele 
>> wrote:
>> In answer to Mt. RUshmore?
>> 
>> Ithink they areboth desecrating nature , but asa reply to Rushmore
>> bothers
>> me less  -
>> 
>> Nice shots, Don -
>> 
>>> On 10/24/2015 2:25 PM, Jack Davis wrote:
>>> 
>>> I imagine the thought of just tweeting
>>> the viewing area and being done with it is prevalent in the teams
>> quiet
>>> mutterings.
>>> 
>>> J
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Oct 24, 2015, at 10:28 AM, knarf 
>> wrote:
 
 I wouldn't say it's hideous artwork but it's certainly a
>> desecration of a
 beautiful natural formation.
 
 If they stopped now I'd be pretty pleased.
 
 Cheers,
 
 frank
 
> On October 24, 2015 12:03:12 PM EDT, Donald Guthrie
>  wrote:
> On the subject of statues carved out of the hillside this one
>> is among
> the controversial set. Is it the hopeless dream that will be
>> never
> completed, another hideous artwork, or a great tribute to
>> Native
> Americans who have blessed the project. It is being done
>> entirely with
> private funding & contributions. But many complain that more
>> money has
> been spent on the observation point than on the carving.
> 
> These photos were all taken in September 2015 from the
>> observation
> building which is a mile from the statue.
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/gp/valdon/340104
 
 
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 Religion - Answers we must never question.
 
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 PDML@pdml.net
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> 
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> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson
> 
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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Re: Geso Crazy Horse in the Black Hills

[steve harley]

On 2015-10-25 14:49 , P.J. Alling wrote:

Based on the track records, Governments are a poor choice to make such
decisions.  I think the Navaho would say the Government should go to Hell
based on recent events on their reservation.  A mining company would never
have made such a stupid mistake and if they had they could be sued.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/11/us/durango-colorado-mine-spill-environmental-protection-agency.html?_r=0


i walked along the Animas River in Durango only a few months ago, and i've 
followed this event fairly closely; i think this spill is helping to bring 
light to a much wider problem — the western U.S. has hundreds of thousands 
of abandoned mines, many with less dramatic but much longer lasting toxic 
outflows


one might excuse the environmental ignorance of miners over 100 years ago, 
but there was also a lot of willful negligence and some of it continues; 
resistance to regulation is intense; on top of that, mines in the watershed 
had already done worse damage to the Animas River; this was well known, and 
more comprehensive remediation had been discussed, but the locals had 
rejected Superfund status because they didn't want the stigma (now they've 
accepted it)



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Re: Geso Crazy Horse in the Black Hills

[P.J. Alling]

Technically that may be true, in reality this is what happens.

On 10/25/2015 4:58 PM, knarf wrote:

That's not a government decision or policy gone awry, it's an error made by a 
government employee or agent in the implementation of an action.

That horrendous situation says nothing to whether the government is the best 
organ to protect the environment or to make decisions regarding it.

Cheers,

frank

On October 25, 2015 4:49:44 PM EDT, "P.J. Alling"  
wrote:

Based on the track records, Governments are a poor choice to make such
decisions.  I think the Navaho would say the Government should go to
Hell based on recent events on their reservation.  A mining company
would never have made such a stupid mistake and if they had they could
be sued.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/11/us/durango-colorado-mine-spill-environmental-protection-agency.html?_r=0

On 10/25/2015 4:24 PM, knarf wrote:

I'm not a "let the government do everything" type of guy (despite a

general perception to the contrary). I am against a pervasive
government interfering in our day-to-day lives.

But who better than the government to decide on environmental and

land use issues like this? And if not the government, then who else?

Chopping down an entire mountain has (to say the least) rather far

reaching and long term consequences. Interested parties go far beyond
private land owners; society at large has a say in something like this.

Cheers,

frank

On October 25, 2015 3:52:14 PM EDT, Bill

 wrote:

On 10/25/2015 12:25 PM, knarf wrote:

The Government should decide.


Ouch.
I hope not.



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Re: The solar system, in scale

[P.J. Alling]

In fact this one, which someone helpfuly posted on that very webpage

http://joshworth.com/dev/pixelspace/pixelspace_solarsystem.html


On 10/25/2015 5:02 PM, Larry Colen wrote:
Oops, I forgot to put OT in the subject.  It isn't Pentax related, and 
only photography related in that cameras were used, but I'm quite sure 
that several people on the list will appreciate it.


Larry Colen wrote:

This video is seven minutes that is very well spent:
http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2015/10/01/every-solar-system-image-youve-ever-seen-is-wrong-till-now/ 










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Re: The solar system, in scale

[steve harley]

On 2015-10-25 14:58 , Larry Colen wrote:

This video is seven minutes that is very well spent:
http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2015/10/01/every-solar-system-image-youve-ever-seen-is-wrong-till-now/


yeah, that looks like it was fun to build

when i lived in Boulder i always appreciated my (usually accidental) 
encounters with this smaller scale model:





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November PUG - a bit of a Hiccup

[Brian Walters]

If anyone has been trying to submit for the November PUG in the last few
days, you will have found that the submission form isn't working - and
neither is the main PUG website.
 
Unfortunately the server had some technical problem due to a power
problem in the area. The extent of the problem is being investigated,
and as soon as we have some clarity, there will be an update with the
ETA of when PUG will be available again.

In the meantime, just a reminder of the theme: "On Two Wheels".


PS: Joe and Malcolm - Your submissions were received OK.  Joe and Collin
- I have your submissions for December.



Cheers

Brian

++
Brian Walters
Western Sydney Australia
http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/

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Re: Geso Crazy Horse in the Black Hills

[steve harley]

On 2015-10-25 14:44 , knarf wrote:

So-called ecotourism is having an impact on pristine areas of rain forests and 
other sensitive areas, all so rich Western folk can get up close and personal 
with orangutans (to use one example).


ecotourism is meant to be an alternative to more destructive practices such 
conventional tourism or extractive industries


i worked at an environmental magazine in the early 90s when concept was 
under development; there's no fixed definition of ecotourism, so the term is 
often misused, but i do think there's a net benefit when it succeeds in 
supporting a local population while reducing impacts compared to the other 
ways that population would have earned a living (e.g. slash & burn


it would be much less appropriate to use the ecotourism label for visiting 
places that would otherwise have no impacts


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Re: GESO, fall colour walk

[ann sanfedele]

Not "too bad about the overcast" to me.  Definitely good for macros as 
Ken notes

(Don't imagine since it was a photo walk with a number of others that he
could take a lot of time on them though)

Dave, I like the colorshots much better than the BW except for the funny 
sign shot and that building..


Wish you had had a figure at the end of the path in a couple...

Didn't look at them as large as Rick did so didn't notice jpgproblems.

ann

On 10/25/2015 1:24 PM, Ken Waller wrote:

With light like that, I would have concentrated on macro/close ups.


-Original Message-

From: David J Brooks 
Subject: Re: GESO, fall colour walk

On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 8:47 AM, Jack Davis  wrote:

Nice shots, David! Too bad about the overcast.

J

Thanks. As Charles Braswell once said, "bad weather makes for good photos."

Dave

- Original Message -
From: "David J Brooks" 
To: "Pentax Discuss" 
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 5:26:19 AM
Subject: GESO, fall colour walk

I re upped to our local camera club for this year. I had taken a year
off, but missed the monthly outings, and since i have been unable to
motivate my self, i have decided to let others do that for me.:-)
Did a fall colour walk in the Rouge valley woodlands trail Saturday
with about 8 others. Easy peazy trail along the river but a lot of
photo ops. Weather was heavy overcast at the Tine and it started to
rain near the end of the walk.

http://www.caughtinmotion.com/2015-SCC1/album/index.html

Colour shots K5 with Sigma 17-70 (which has now started to mis behave
like the Pentax version did, focus fine for a while then ver
slowww to focus. It has been repaired once after i dropped it  and
i think it needs another trip to Gentec for a look see.

B shots from the Fuji X30

Dave

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Re: GESO, fall colour walk

[Steve Cottrell]

On 25/10/15, David J Brooks, discombobulated, unleashed:

>I re upped to our local camera club for this year. I had taken a year
>off, but missed the monthly outings, and since i have been unable to
>motivate my self, i have decided to let others do that for me.:-)
>Did a fall colour walk in the Rouge valley woodlands trail Saturday
>with about 8 others. Easy peazy trail along the river but a lot of
>photo ops. Weather was heavy overcast at the Tine and it started to
>rain near the end of the walk.
>
>http://www.caughtinmotion.com/2015-SCC1/album/index.html

Nice work Dave - like 7684 and 7714 especially.

-- 


Cheers,
  Cotty


___/\__Broadcast, Corporate,
||  (O)  |Web Video Production
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Re: GESO, fall colour walk

[Ken Waller]

With light like that, I would have concentrated on macro/close ups.


-Original Message-
>From: David J Brooks 

>Subject: Re: GESO, fall colour walk
>
>On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 8:47 AM, Jack Davis  wrote:
>> Nice shots, David! Too bad about the overcast.
>>
>> J
>
>Thanks. As Charles Braswell once said, "bad weather makes for good photos."
>
>Dave
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "David J Brooks" 
>> To: "Pentax Discuss" 
>> Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 5:26:19 AM
>> Subject: GESO, fall colour walk
>>
>> I re upped to our local camera club for this year. I had taken a year
>> off, but missed the monthly outings, and since i have been unable to
>> motivate my self, i have decided to let others do that for me.:-)
>> Did a fall colour walk in the Rouge valley woodlands trail Saturday
>> with about 8 others. Easy peazy trail along the river but a lot of
>> photo ops. Weather was heavy overcast at the Tine and it started to
>> rain near the end of the walk.
>>
>> http://www.caughtinmotion.com/2015-SCC1/album/index.html
>>
>> Colour shots K5 with Sigma 17-70 (which has now started to mis behave
>> like the Pentax version did, focus fine for a while then ver
>> slowww to focus. It has been repaired once after i dropped it  and
>> i think it needs another trip to Gentec for a look see.
>>
>> B shots from the Fuji X30
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> --
>> Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
>> www.caughtinmotion.com
>> http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
>> York Region, Ontario, Canada
>>
>> --
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>> follow the directions.
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>> follow the directions.
>
>
>
>-- 
>Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
>www.caughtinmotion.com
>http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
>York Region, 


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Re: Geso Crazy Horse in the Black Hills

[Paul Stenquist]

By extension one could argue that the cave paintings of early humans desecrated 
nature. Mankind leaves it's mark and writes a history for better or worse. It's 
the way of the world.

Paul via phone

> On Oct 25, 2015, at 11:59 AM, John  wrote:
> 
> According to Wikipedia, encouraging tourism was the original reason for 
> creating it.
> 
> 
>> On 10/24/2015 5:40 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote:
>> Ann,
>> You need to get over it.
>> The sculpture has brought thousands (millions) out to look at the Black 
>> Hills.
>> Otherwise, folks would never go there.
>> Regards,  Bob S.
>> 
>>> On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 4:34 PM, ann sanfedele  wrote:
>>> In answer to Mt. RUshmore?
>>> 
>>> Ithink they areboth desecrating nature , but asa reply to Rushmore bothers
>>> me less  -
>>> 
>>> Nice shots, Don -
>>> 
 On 10/24/2015 2:25 PM, Jack Davis wrote:
 
 I imagine the thought of just tweeting
 the viewing area and being done with it is prevalent in the teams quiet
 mutterings.
 
 J
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Oct 24, 2015, at 10:28 AM, knarf  wrote:
> 
> I wouldn't say it's hideous artwork but it's certainly a desecration of a
> beautiful natural formation.
> 
> If they stopped now I'd be pretty pleased.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> frank
> 
>> On October 24, 2015 12:03:12 PM EDT, Donald Guthrie
>>  wrote:
>> On the subject of statues carved out of the hillside this one is among
>> the controversial set. Is it the hopeless dream that will be never
>> completed, another hideous artwork, or a great tribute to Native
>> Americans who have blessed the project. It is being done entirely with
>> private funding & contributions. But many complain that more money has
>> been spent on the observation point than on the carving.
>> 
>> These photos were all taken in September 2015 from the observation
>> building which is a mile from the statue.
>> 
>> https://www.flickr.com/gp/valdon/340104
> 
> 
> -- 
> Science - Questions we may never find answers for.
> Religion - Answers we must never question.
> 
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Re: GESO, fall colour walk

[David J Brooks]

Good idea Ken

On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 1:24 PM, Ken Waller  wrote:
> With light like that, I would have concentrated on macro/close ups.
>
>
> -Original Message-
>>From: David J Brooks 
>
>>Subject: Re: GESO, fall colour walk
>>
>>On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 8:47 AM, Jack Davis  wrote:
>>> Nice shots, David! Too bad about the overcast.
>>>
>>> J
>>
>>Thanks. As Charles Braswell once said, "bad weather makes for good photos."
>>
>>Dave
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "David J Brooks" 
>>> To: "Pentax Discuss" 
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 5:26:19 AM
>>> Subject: GESO, fall colour walk
>>>
>>> I re upped to our local camera club for this year. I had taken a year
>>> off, but missed the monthly outings, and since i have been unable to
>>> motivate my self, i have decided to let others do that for me.:-)
>>> Did a fall colour walk in the Rouge valley woodlands trail Saturday
>>> with about 8 others. Easy peazy trail along the river but a lot of
>>> photo ops. Weather was heavy overcast at the Tine and it started to
>>> rain near the end of the walk.
>>>
>>> http://www.caughtinmotion.com/2015-SCC1/album/index.html
>>>
>>> Colour shots K5 with Sigma 17-70 (which has now started to mis behave
>>> like the Pentax version did, focus fine for a while then ver
>>> slowww to focus. It has been repaired once after i dropped it  and
>>> i think it needs another trip to Gentec for a look see.
>>>
>>> B shots from the Fuji X30
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> --
>>> Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
>>> www.caughtinmotion.com
>>> http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
>>> York Region, Ontario, Canada
>>>
>>> --
>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>> PDML@pdml.net
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>>> follow the directions.
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>>> follow the directions.
>>
>>
>>
>>--
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>>www.caughtinmotion.com
>>http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
>>York Region,
>
>
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Re: Geso Crazy Horse in the Black Hills

[knarf]

That's EXACTLY what I said, Paul. It's either "tourism everywhere" or "tourism 
nowhere".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

Cheers,

frank

On October 25, 2015 1:45:14 PM EDT, Paul Stenquist  
wrote:
>Are tourists desirable anywhere? We could all stay in our rooms with
>shades drawn.
>
>Paul via phone
>
>> On Oct 25, 2015, at 12:38 PM, knarf  wrote:
>> 
>> Is bringing tourists out there desirable? 
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> frank 
>> 
>>> On October 24, 2015 5:40:43 PM EDT, Bob Sullivan
> wrote:
>>> Ann,
>>> You need to get over it.
>>> The sculpture has brought thousands (millions) out to look at the
>Black
>>> Hills.
>>> Otherwise, folks would never go there.
>>> Regards,  Bob S.
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 4:34 PM, ann sanfedele 
>>> wrote:
 In answer to Mt. RUshmore?
 
 Ithink they areboth desecrating nature , but asa reply to Rushmore
>>> bothers
 me less  -
 
 Nice shots, Don -
 
> On 10/24/2015 2:25 PM, Jack Davis wrote:
> 
> I imagine the thought of just tweeting
> the viewing area and being done with it is prevalent in the teams
>>> quiet
> mutterings.
> 
> J
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 24, 2015, at 10:28 AM, knarf 
>>> wrote:
>> 
>> I wouldn't say it's hideous artwork but it's certainly a
>>> desecration of a
>> beautiful natural formation.
>> 
>> If they stopped now I'd be pretty pleased.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> frank
>> 
>>> On October 24, 2015 12:03:12 PM EDT, Donald Guthrie
>>>  wrote:
>>> On the subject of statues carved out of the hillside this one is
>>> among
>>> the controversial set. Is it the hopeless dream that will be
>never
>>> completed, another hideous artwork, or a great tribute to Native
>>> Americans who have blessed the project. It is being done
>entirely
>>> with
>>> private funding & contributions. But many complain that more
>money
>>> has
>>> been spent on the observation point than on the carving.
>>> 
>>> These photos were all taken in September 2015 from the
>observation
>>> building which is a mile from the statue.
>>> 
>>> https://www.flickr.com/gp/valdon/340104
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson
>> 
>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my
>>> brevity.
>> 
>> --
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>above
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>> follow the directions.
 
 
 
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 PDML@pdml.net
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 follow the directions.
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>> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson
>> 
>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>> 
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"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson

Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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Re: GESO, fall colour walk

[Ken Waller]

Nice captures Dave, I especially like your take on the 'roots'.


-Original Message-
>From: David J Brooks 
>Subject: GESO, fall colour walk
>
>I re upped to our local camera club for this year. I had taken a year
>off, but missed the monthly outings, and since i have been unable to
>motivate my self, i have decided to let others do that for me.:-)
>Did a fall colour walk in the Rouge valley woodlands trail Saturday
>with about 8 others. Easy peazy trail along the river but a lot of
>photo ops. Weather was heavy overcast at the Tine and it started to
>rain near the end of the walk.
>
>http://www.caughtinmotion.com/2015-SCC1/album/index.html
>
>Colour shots K5 with Sigma 17-70 (which has now started to mis behave
>like the Pentax version did, focus fine for a while then ver
>slowww to focus. It has been repaired once after i dropped it  and
>i think it needs another trip to Gentec for a look see.
>
>B shots from the Fuji X30
>
>Dave
>
>-- 
>Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
>www.caughtinmotion.com
>http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
>York Region, Ontario, Canada



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Re: Geso Crazy Horse in the Black Hills

[Paul Stenquist]

Are tourists desirable anywhere? We could all stay in our rooms with shades 
drawn.

Paul via phone

> On Oct 25, 2015, at 12:38 PM, knarf  wrote:
> 
> Is bringing tourists out there desirable? 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> frank 
> 
>> On October 24, 2015 5:40:43 PM EDT, Bob Sullivan  
>> wrote:
>> Ann,
>> You need to get over it.
>> The sculpture has brought thousands (millions) out to look at the Black
>> Hills.
>> Otherwise, folks would never go there.
>> Regards,  Bob S.
>> 
>> On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 4:34 PM, ann sanfedele 
>> wrote:
>>> In answer to Mt. RUshmore?
>>> 
>>> Ithink they areboth desecrating nature , but asa reply to Rushmore
>> bothers
>>> me less  -
>>> 
>>> Nice shots, Don -
>>> 
 On 10/24/2015 2:25 PM, Jack Davis wrote:
 
 I imagine the thought of just tweeting
 the viewing area and being done with it is prevalent in the teams
>> quiet
 mutterings.
 
 J
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Oct 24, 2015, at 10:28 AM, knarf 
>> wrote:
> 
> I wouldn't say it's hideous artwork but it's certainly a
>> desecration of a
> beautiful natural formation.
> 
> If they stopped now I'd be pretty pleased.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> frank
> 
>> On October 24, 2015 12:03:12 PM EDT, Donald Guthrie
>>  wrote:
>> On the subject of statues carved out of the hillside this one is
>> among
>> the controversial set. Is it the hopeless dream that will be never
>> completed, another hideous artwork, or a great tribute to Native
>> Americans who have blessed the project. It is being done entirely
>> with
>> private funding & contributions. But many complain that more money
>> has
>> been spent on the observation point than on the carving.
>> 
>> These photos were all taken in September 2015 from the observation
>> building which is a mile from the statue.
>> 
>> https://www.flickr.com/gp/valdon/340104
> 
> --
> 
> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson
> 
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my
>> brevity.
> 
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>> and
> follow the directions.
>>> 
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> 
> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson
> 
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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Re: Geso Crazy Horse in the Black Hills

[knarf]

Slippery slope argument Paul. Won't work.

Of course, every human activity, indeed every activity of every thing, has an 
ecological impact.

We need to assess each activity individually and decide if the impact is 
desirable or not, irrespective of what other impacts have occurred at other 
places and times. 

Whatever may have been drawn in French caves tens of thousands of years ago is 
quite irrelevant to what's happening today. 

Cheers,

frank



On October 25, 2015 1:43:46 PM EDT, Paul Stenquist  
wrote:
>By extension one could argue that the cave paintings of early humans
>desecrated nature. Mankind leaves it's mark and writes a history for
>better or worse. It's the way of the world.
>
>Paul via phone
>
>> On Oct 25, 2015, at 11:59 AM, John  wrote:
>> 
>> According to Wikipedia, encouraging tourism was the original reason
>for creating it.
>> 
>> 
>>> On 10/24/2015 5:40 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote:
>>> Ann,
>>> You need to get over it.
>>> The sculpture has brought thousands (millions) out to look at the
>Black Hills.
>>> Otherwise, folks would never go there.
>>> Regards,  Bob S.
>>> 
 On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 4:34 PM, ann sanfedele 
>wrote:
 In answer to Mt. RUshmore?
 
 Ithink they areboth desecrating nature , but asa reply to Rushmore
>bothers
 me less  -
 
 Nice shots, Don -
 
> On 10/24/2015 2:25 PM, Jack Davis wrote:
> 
> I imagine the thought of just tweeting
> the viewing area and being done with it is prevalent in the teams
>quiet
> mutterings.
> 
> J
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 24, 2015, at 10:28 AM, knarf 
>wrote:
>> 
>> I wouldn't say it's hideous artwork but it's certainly a
>desecration of a
>> beautiful natural formation.
>> 
>> If they stopped now I'd be pretty pleased.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> frank
>> 
>>> On October 24, 2015 12:03:12 PM EDT, Donald Guthrie
>>>  wrote:
>>> On the subject of statues carved out of the hillside this one is
>among
>>> the controversial set. Is it the hopeless dream that will be
>never
>>> completed, another hideous artwork, or a great tribute to Native
>>> Americans who have blessed the project. It is being done
>entirely with
>>> private funding & contributions. But many complain that more
>money has
>>> been spent on the observation point than on the carving.
>>> 
>>> These photos were all taken in September 2015 from the
>observation
>>> building which is a mile from the statue.
>>> 
>>> https://www.flickr.com/gp/valdon/340104
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Science - Questions we may never find answers for.
>> Religion - Answers we must never question.
>> 
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>and follow the directions.

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Re: Geso Crazy Horse in the Black Hills

[knarf]

Nature always "wins". One way or the other...

Cheers,

frank

On October 25, 2015 2:47:17 PM EDT, Jack Davis  wrote:
>Time will eventually replace it all.
>
>J
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 25, 2015, at 10:43 AM, Paul Stenquist
> wrote:
>> 
>> By extension one could argue that the cave paintings of early humans
>desecrated nature. Mankind leaves it's mark and writes a history for
>better or worse. It's the way of the world.
>> 
>> Paul via phone
>> 
>>> On Oct 25, 2015, at 11:59 AM, John  wrote:
>>> 
>>> According to Wikipedia, encouraging tourism was the original reason
>for creating it.
>>> 
>>> 
 On 10/24/2015 5:40 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote:
 Ann,
 You need to get over it.
 The sculpture has brought thousands (millions) out to look at the
>Black Hills.
 Otherwise, folks would never go there.
 Regards,  Bob S.
 
> On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 4:34 PM, ann sanfedele 
>wrote:
> In answer to Mt. RUshmore?
> 
> Ithink they areboth desecrating nature , but asa reply to Rushmore
>bothers
> me less  -
> 
> Nice shots, Don -
> 
>> On 10/24/2015 2:25 PM, Jack Davis wrote:
>> 
>> I imagine the thought of just tweeting
>> the viewing area and being done with it is prevalent in the teams
>quiet
>> mutterings.
>> 
>> J
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 24, 2015, at 10:28 AM, knarf 
>wrote:
>>> 
>>> I wouldn't say it's hideous artwork but it's certainly a
>desecration of a
>>> beautiful natural formation.
>>> 
>>> If they stopped now I'd be pretty pleased.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> frank
>>> 
 On October 24, 2015 12:03:12 PM EDT, Donald Guthrie
  wrote:
 On the subject of statues carved out of the hillside this one
>is among
 the controversial set. Is it the hopeless dream that will be
>never
 completed, another hideous artwork, or a great tribute to
>Native
 Americans who have blessed the project. It is being done
>entirely with
 private funding & contributions. But many complain that more
>money has
 been spent on the observation point than on the carving.
 
 These photos were all taken in September 2015 from the
>observation
 building which is a mile from the statue.
 
 https://www.flickr.com/gp/valdon/340104
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Science - Questions we may never find answers for.
>>> Religion - Answers we must never question.
>>> 
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>and follow the directions.
>> 
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Re: Geso Crazy Horse in the Black Hills

[knarf]

I'm not a "let the government do everything" type of guy (despite a general 
perception to the contrary). I am against a pervasive government interfering in 
our day-to-day lives.

But who better than the government to decide on environmental and land use 
issues like this? And if not the government, then who else?

Chopping down an entire mountain has (to say the least) rather far reaching and 
long term consequences. Interested parties go far beyond private land owners; 
society at large has a say in something like this. 

Cheers,

frank

On October 25, 2015 3:52:14 PM EDT, Bill  wrote:
>On 10/25/2015 12:25 PM, knarf wrote:
>> The Government should decide.
>>
>
>Ouch.
>I hope not.

-- 

"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson

Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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Re: Geso Crazy Horse in the Black Hills

[knarf]

I was being ironic. I neither meant nor said it.

There are some places that it's best tourists ~not~ go to. I'm not sure but the 
Black Hills may be one such place.

I was initially reacting to Bob's post, merely pointing out that tourism isn't 
always a good thing. Tourism ~in and of itself~ is not a sufficient reason to 
physically alter this landscape on such a grand scale. 

Cheers,

frank


On October 25, 2015 4:11:09 PM EDT, John  wrote:
>Might have been what you meant, but it's *NOT* what you wrote.
>
>On 10/25/2015 2:08 PM, knarf wrote:
>> That's EXACTLY what I said, Paul. It's either "tourism everywhere" or
>"tourism nowhere".
>>
>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> frank
>>
>> On October 25, 2015 1:45:14 PM EDT, Paul Stenquist
> wrote:
>>> Are tourists desirable anywhere? We could all stay in our rooms with
>>> shades drawn.
>>>
>>> Paul via phone
>>>
 On Oct 25, 2015, at 12:38 PM, knarf 
>wrote:

 Is bringing tourists out there desirable?

 Cheers,

 frank


-- 

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Re: Geso Crazy Horse in the Black Hills

[Brian Walters]

I have to admit I've never understood why anyone would want to desecrate
a natural formation like Mt Rushmore in that way. But, I'm Australian so
what would I know...

When we were in the USA in 2013 we were about three hours drive of Mt
Rushmore but none of us had any interest or desire to visit.  We all
preferred our landscapes unspoiled.

(I do admit, however, that it made a great backdrop in Hitchcock's
'North by Northwest')


Cheers

Brian

++
Brian Walters
Western Sydney Australia
http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/



On Mon, Oct 26, 2015, at 07:30 AM, knarf wrote:
> I was being ironic. I neither meant nor said it.
> 
> There are some places that it's best tourists ~not~ go to. I'm not sure
> but the Black Hills may be one such place.
> 
> I was initially reacting to Bob's post, merely pointing out that tourism
> isn't always a good thing. Tourism ~in and of itself~ is not a sufficient
> reason to physically alter this landscape on such a grand scale. 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> frank
> 

-- 
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Bracketing on the K-3

[Larry Colen]

I just noticed something about the K-3, it has a feature that I've been 
wanting for ages, the value being changed when bracketing depends on the 
exposure mode.  In TAv it changes sensitivity, in Tv aperture, in Av and 
M shutter speed.



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Re: Geso Crazy Horse in the Black Hills

[knarf]

The most obvious answer regarding Paris, London and Rome is that they're huge 
urban areas with an infrastructure in place to handle tourists. No doubt 
they're a net benefit to those cities.

The Pyramids have been a tourist destination for long enough that whatever 
ecological damage that's going to happen already has; more tourists aren't 
going to further degrade things, ecologically speaking. 

Surely, however, there are tourist destinations where negative environmental 
impact of visitors outweighs any economic benefits. 

So-called ecotourism is having an impact on pristine areas of rain forests and 
other sensitive areas, all so rich Western folk can get up close and personal 
with orangutans (to use one example).

I'm not saying that this is a good or bad thing, I'm saying that tourism to 
environmentally sensitive areas needs to be assessed, monitored and regulated 
in some way that balances the needs of all involved.

I'm also of the mind that saying something will attract tourists or bring in 
revenue is only one consideration in deciding if projects of the scale of Mount 
Rushmore or Crazy Horse should proceed. I don't think that's so radical, is it?

Anyway, I've said all I need to say to explain my position. This is getting 
tiresome. 

I'm going for a walk with my camera. Have a great day!

Cheers, 

frank

On October 25, 2015 4:08:11 PM EDT, John  wrote:
>Tourists go to Paris for the Eiffel Tower; London for Big Ben; Rome for
>the Colosseum. They go to Egypt for the pyramids & the Spinx. Tourism
>provides a significant revenue in each of those places.
>
>Why should the Dakotas be denied?
>
>
>On 10/25/2015 12:38 PM, knarf wrote:
>> Is bringing tourists out there desirable?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> frank
>>
>> On October 24, 2015 5:40:43 PM EDT, Bob Sullivan
> wrote:
>>> Ann,
>>> You need to get over it.
>>> The sculpture has brought thousands (millions) out to look at the
>Black
>>> Hills.
>>> Otherwise, folks would never go there.
>>> Regards,  Bob S.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 4:34 PM, ann sanfedele 
>>> wrote:
 In answer to Mt. RUshmore?

 Ithink they areboth desecrating nature , but asa reply to Rushmore
>>> bothers
 me less  -

 Nice shots, Don -

 On 10/24/2015 2:25 PM, Jack Davis wrote:
>
> I imagine the thought of just tweeting
> the viewing area and being done with it is prevalent in the teams
>>> quiet
> mutterings.
>
> J
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 24, 2015, at 10:28 AM, knarf 
>>> wrote:
>>
>> I wouldn't say it's hideous artwork but it's certainly a
>>> desecration of a
>> beautiful natural formation.
>>
>> If they stopped now I'd be pretty pleased.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> frank
>>
>>> On October 24, 2015 12:03:12 PM EDT, Donald Guthrie
>>>  wrote:
>>> On the subject of statues carved out of the hillside this one is
>>> among
>>> the controversial set. Is it the hopeless dream that will be
>never
>>> completed, another hideous artwork, or a great tribute to Native
>>> Americans who have blessed the project. It is being done
>entirely
>>> with
>>> private funding & contributions. But many complain that more
>money
>>> has
>>> been spent on the observation point than on the carving.
>>>
>>> These photos were all taken in September 2015 from the
>observation
>>> building which is a mile from the statue.
>>>
>>> https://www.flickr.com/gp/valdon/340104
>>

-- 

"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson

Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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Re: Geso Crazy Horse in the Black Hills

[P.J. Alling]

Based on the track records, Governments are a poor choice to make such 
decisions.  I think the Navaho would say the Government should go to 
Hell based on recent events on their reservation.  A mining company 
would never have made such a stupid mistake and if they had they could 
be sued.


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/11/us/durango-colorado-mine-spill-environmental-protection-agency.html?_r=0

On 10/25/2015 4:24 PM, knarf wrote:

I'm not a "let the government do everything" type of guy (despite a general 
perception to the contrary). I am against a pervasive government interfering in our 
day-to-day lives.

But who better than the government to decide on environmental and land use 
issues like this? And if not the government, then who else?

Chopping down an entire mountain has (to say the least) rather far reaching and 
long term consequences. Interested parties go far beyond private land owners; 
society at large has a say in something like this.

Cheers,

frank

On October 25, 2015 3:52:14 PM EDT, Bill  wrote:

On 10/25/2015 12:25 PM, knarf wrote:

The Government should decide.


Ouch.
I hope not.



--
I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve 
immortality through not dying.
-- Woody Allen


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Re: Bracketing on the K-3

[Paul Stenquist]

I used to bracket half stops when I shot transparency film. I don't bracket 
with digital. I can fix a half stop miss in rendering quite easily. 

Paul via phone

> On Oct 25, 2015, at 4:42 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> 
> I just noticed something about the K-3, it has a feature that I've been 
> wanting for ages, the value being changed when bracketing depends on the 
> exposure mode.  In TAv it changes sensitivity, in Tv aperture, in Av and M 
> shutter speed.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Larry Colen  l...@red4est.com (postbox on min4est)
> 
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The solar system, in scale

[Larry Colen]

This video is seven minutes that is very well spent:
http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2015/10/01/every-solar-system-image-youve-ever-seen-is-wrong-till-now/


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Re: Geso Crazy Horse in the Black Hills

[knarf]

That's not a government decision or policy gone awry, it's an error made by a 
government employee or agent in the implementation of an action.

That horrendous situation says nothing to whether the government is the best 
organ to protect the environment or to make decisions regarding it.

Cheers,

frank

On October 25, 2015 4:49:44 PM EDT, "P.J. Alling"  
wrote:
>Based on the track records, Governments are a poor choice to make such 
>decisions.  I think the Navaho would say the Government should go to 
>Hell based on recent events on their reservation.  A mining company 
>would never have made such a stupid mistake and if they had they could 
>be sued.
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/11/us/durango-colorado-mine-spill-environmental-protection-agency.html?_r=0
>
>On 10/25/2015 4:24 PM, knarf wrote:
>> I'm not a "let the government do everything" type of guy (despite a
>general perception to the contrary). I am against a pervasive
>government interfering in our day-to-day lives.
>>
>> But who better than the government to decide on environmental and
>land use issues like this? And if not the government, then who else?
>>
>> Chopping down an entire mountain has (to say the least) rather far
>reaching and long term consequences. Interested parties go far beyond
>private land owners; society at large has a say in something like this.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> frank
>>
>> On October 25, 2015 3:52:14 PM EDT, Bill
> wrote:
>>> On 10/25/2015 12:25 PM, knarf wrote:
 The Government should decide.

>>> Ouch.
>>> I hope not.

-- 

"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson

Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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Re: Bracketing on the K-3

[Larry Colen]

Paul Stenquist wrote:

I used to bracket half stops when I shot transparency film. I don't bracket 
with digital. I can fix a half stop miss in rendering quite easily.


I bracket at 1.3 to 2 stops.  I've been doing it for years in 
anticipation of doing HDR.  I've almost always been able to massage the 
image to bring the details out, but a couple of shots that took an hour 
or two with the adjustment brush on one frame took on the order of 
fifteen minutes using LR6 with its HDR feature.




Paul via phone


On Oct 25, 2015, at 4:42 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:

I just noticed something about the K-3, it has a feature that I've been wanting 
for ages, the value being changed when bracketing depends on the exposure mode. 
 In TAv it changes sensitivity, in Tv aperture, in Av and M shutter speed.


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Re: The solar system, in scale

[Larry Colen]

Oops, I forgot to put OT in the subject.  It isn't Pentax related, and 
only photography related in that cameras were used, but I'm quite sure 
that several people on the list will appreciate it.


Larry Colen wrote:

This video is seven minutes that is very well spent:
http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2015/10/01/every-solar-system-image-youve-ever-seen-is-wrong-till-now/





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Re: The solar system, in scale

[P.J. Alling]

Well, I've already played with an interactive version, there's an awful 
lot of empty space in space.


On 10/25/2015 4:58 PM, Larry Colen wrote:

This video is seven minutes that is very well spent:
http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2015/10/01/every-solar-system-image-youve-ever-seen-is-wrong-till-now/ 







--
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immortality through not dying.
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Re: Geso Crazy Horse in the Black Hills

[John]

According to Wikipedia, encouraging tourism was the original reason for 
creating it.



On 10/24/2015 5:40 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote:

Ann,
You need to get over it.
The sculpture has brought thousands (millions) out to look at the Black Hills.
Otherwise, folks would never go there.
Regards,  Bob S.

On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 4:34 PM, ann sanfedele  wrote:

In answer to Mt. RUshmore?

Ithink they areboth desecrating nature , but asa reply to Rushmore bothers
me less  -

Nice shots, Don -

On 10/24/2015 2:25 PM, Jack Davis wrote:


I imagine the thought of just tweeting
the viewing area and being done with it is prevalent in the teams quiet
mutterings.

J


Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 24, 2015, at 10:28 AM, knarf  wrote:

I wouldn't say it's hideous artwork but it's certainly a desecration of a
beautiful natural formation.

If they stopped now I'd be pretty pleased.

Cheers,

frank


On October 24, 2015 12:03:12 PM EDT, Donald Guthrie
 wrote:
On the subject of statues carved out of the hillside this one is among
the controversial set. Is it the hopeless dream that will be never
completed, another hideous artwork, or a great tribute to Native
Americans who have blessed the project. It is being done entirely with
private funding & contributions. But many complain that more money has
been spent on the observation point than on the carving.

These photos were all taken in September 2015 from the observation
building which is a mile from the statue.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/valdon/340104





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Re: Full Frame Fresh Pics

[P.J. Alling]

On 10/25/2015 10:59 AM, John wrote:

On 10/24/2015 1:03 PM, John Francis wrote:

On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 11:10:12AM -0500, Darren Addy wrote:
Has anybody commented on the "crop" setting on the top right center 
dial?
I'm guessing that this is a way to keep DA lenses relevant on the 
Full Frame.


I'd have thought that the camera would know when a crop-factor lens 
was mounted;
all the DA lenses have the lens ID chip to identify themselves to the 
camera.


So what will happen when you mount a DA lens? will there be some way 
for the
viewfinder to show a magnified view of just the central portion of 
the field?





With Photoshop & all that, some DA lenses might not vignette too badly,
so maybe you wouldn't want it to automatically switch to crop mode when
you mount the lens. Looks like the switch would allow the user to decide
when to use crop mode.



It's not the vignetting that would be the problem. Though with shorter 
focal length lenses there may be no image at all in the sides and 
corners of the frame.


The big problem is that even if the basic design of the lens, the 40mm 
f2.8 is an example, was originally for 35mm, the design has probably 
been tweaked to improve the center APS-C part of the image circle, 
probably with little thought to the effects outside that circle.


I mean really, I read raves about how sharp the 40mm f2.8 in it's 
various DA iterations, which since I've seen results from the film 
version on both digital and film, close up, I have to assume is either 
because people are stupid, or the lens design has been improved to 
increase center sharpness.  There's nothing wrong with the M version, 
it's just not the sharpest lens I've ever used, until it's stopped down 
quite a bit.


--
I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve 
immortality through not dying.
-- Woody Allen


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Re: Geso Crazy Horse in the Black Hills

[knarf]

Is bringing tourists out there desirable? 

Cheers,

frank 

On October 24, 2015 5:40:43 PM EDT, Bob Sullivan  wrote:
>Ann,
>You need to get over it.
>The sculpture has brought thousands (millions) out to look at the Black
>Hills.
>Otherwise, folks would never go there.
>Regards,  Bob S.
>
>On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 4:34 PM, ann sanfedele 
>wrote:
>> In answer to Mt. RUshmore?
>>
>> Ithink they areboth desecrating nature , but asa reply to Rushmore
>bothers
>> me less  -
>>
>> Nice shots, Don -
>>
>> On 10/24/2015 2:25 PM, Jack Davis wrote:
>>>
>>> I imagine the thought of just tweeting
>>> the viewing area and being done with it is prevalent in the teams
>quiet
>>> mutterings.
>>>
>>> J
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
 On Oct 24, 2015, at 10:28 AM, knarf 
>wrote:

 I wouldn't say it's hideous artwork but it's certainly a
>desecration of a
 beautiful natural formation.

 If they stopped now I'd be pretty pleased.

 Cheers,

 frank

> On October 24, 2015 12:03:12 PM EDT, Donald Guthrie
>  wrote:
> On the subject of statues carved out of the hillside this one is
>among
> the controversial set. Is it the hopeless dream that will be never
> completed, another hideous artwork, or a great tribute to Native
> Americans who have blessed the project. It is being done entirely
>with
> private funding & contributions. But many complain that more money
>has
> been spent on the observation point than on the carving.
>
> These photos were all taken in September 2015 from the observation
> building which is a mile from the statue.
>
> https://www.flickr.com/gp/valdon/340104

 --

 "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson

 Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my
>brevity.

 --
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 PDML@pdml.net
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>and
 follow the directions.
>>
>>
>>
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>> follow the directions.

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Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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Re: GESO, fall colour walk

[David J Brooks]

still some good colour east of me into Durham. Photo ride later maybe


On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 10:22 AM, Bruce Walker  wrote:
> Those are lovely, Dave. Besides regular doggy strolls, I haven't
> gotten out for a fall walk at all so far. Some of the most brilliant
> colour is already fading.
>
> On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 8:26 AM, David J Brooks  wrote:
>> I re upped to our local camera club for this year. I had taken a year
>> off, but missed the monthly outings, and since i have been unable to
>> motivate my self, i have decided to let others do that for me.:-)
>> Did a fall colour walk in the Rouge valley woodlands trail Saturday
>> with about 8 others. Easy peazy trail along the river but a lot of
>> photo ops. Weather was heavy overcast at the Tine and it started to
>> rain near the end of the walk.
>>
>> http://www.caughtinmotion.com/2015-SCC1/album/index.html
>>
>> Colour shots K5 with Sigma 17-70 (which has now started to mis behave
>> like the Pentax version did, focus fine for a while then ver
>> slowww to focus. It has been repaired once after i dropped it  and
>> i think it needs another trip to Gentec for a look see.
>>
>> B shots from the Fuji X30
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> --
>> Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
>> www.caughtinmotion.com
>> http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
>> York Region, Ontario, Canada
>>
>> --
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>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and 
>> follow the directions.
>
>
>
> --
> -bmw
>
> --
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> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.



-- 
Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
www.caughtinmotion.com
http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
York Region, Ontario, Canada

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Re: PSEO: Zombies!

[John]

Why Arkansas or Florida?

On 10/24/2015 7:16 PM, P.J. Alling wrote:

And here I always thought the Zombie Apocalypse would begin in Arkansas
or Florida.

On 10/24/2015 6:55 PM, Mark Roberts wrote:

Every Halloween we get a group of students to pose for zombie photos
which we make into posters for display at the college Halloween bash.
One of my colleagues in the Art & Graphic Design Department designs
the make-up, assisted by various students in the fashion department.
Then we dress 'em up and shoot photos. here's my favorite from this
year: http://www.robertstech.com/temp/zombies.jpg






--
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Religion - Answers we must never question.

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Re: PSEO: Zombies!

[P.J. Alling]

I've been to both, and it's just the vibe.

The headline that always starts "Florida Man..." followed by an incident 
that's either head scratchingly stupid or weird also helps.  Not to 
mention the couple of cases of assailants attempting to eat their 
victims faces while hopped up on "bath salts", which after the fact 
blood testing didn't find in their systems, so cause and motive are 
still a mystery, (you can't ask them, both attacked responding officers 
so violently that they both ended up dead).


Arkansas just because everything weird you hear about in western 
Tennessee seems to originate there.  Case in point.


http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/apr/04/nightmare-west-memphis-three/

Now West Memphis is just across the Mississippi from Memphis, and I was 
working in Memphis when the story broke.


On 10/25/2015 11:15 AM, John wrote:

Why Arkansas or Florida?

On 10/24/2015 7:16 PM, P.J. Alling wrote:

And here I always thought the Zombie Apocalypse would begin in Arkansas
or Florida.

On 10/24/2015 6:55 PM, Mark Roberts wrote:

Every Halloween we get a group of students to pose for zombie photos
which we make into posters for display at the college Halloween bash.
One of my colleagues in the Art & Graphic Design Department designs
the make-up, assisted by various students in the fashion department.
Then we dress 'em up and shoot photos. here's my favorite from this
year: http://www.robertstech.com/temp/zombies.jpg









--
I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve 
immortality through not dying.
-- Woody Allen


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Re: GESO, fall colour walk

[Bruce Walker]

Those are lovely, Dave. Besides regular doggy strolls, I haven't
gotten out for a fall walk at all so far. Some of the most brilliant
colour is already fading.

On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 8:26 AM, David J Brooks  wrote:
> I re upped to our local camera club for this year. I had taken a year
> off, but missed the monthly outings, and since i have been unable to
> motivate my self, i have decided to let others do that for me.:-)
> Did a fall colour walk in the Rouge valley woodlands trail Saturday
> with about 8 others. Easy peazy trail along the river but a lot of
> photo ops. Weather was heavy overcast at the Tine and it started to
> rain near the end of the walk.
>
> http://www.caughtinmotion.com/2015-SCC1/album/index.html
>
> Colour shots K5 with Sigma 17-70 (which has now started to mis behave
> like the Pentax version did, focus fine for a while then ver
> slowww to focus. It has been repaired once after i dropped it  and
> i think it needs another trip to Gentec for a look see.
>
> B shots from the Fuji X30
>
> Dave
>
> --
> Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
> www.caughtinmotion.com
> http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
> York Region, Ontario, Canada
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.



-- 
-bmw

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Re: Full Frame Fresh Pics

[John]

On 10/24/2015 1:03 PM, John Francis wrote:

On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 11:10:12AM -0500, Darren Addy wrote:

Has anybody commented on the "crop" setting on the top right center dial?
I'm guessing that this is a way to keep DA lenses relevant on the Full Frame.


I'd have thought that the camera would know when a crop-factor lens was mounted;
all the DA lenses have the lens ID chip to identify themselves to the camera.

So what will happen when you mount a DA lens? will there be some way for the
viewfinder to show a magnified view of just the central portion of the field?




With Photoshop & all that, some DA lenses might not vignette too badly,
so maybe you wouldn't want it to automatically switch to crop mode when
you mount the lens. Looks like the switch would allow the user to decide
when to use crop mode.

--
Science - Questions we may never find answers for.
Religion - Answers we must never question.

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Re: PSEO: Zombies!

[Bill]

On 10/24/2015 4:55 PM, Mark Roberts wrote:

Every Halloween we get a group of students to pose for zombie photos
which we make into posters for display at the college Halloween bash.
One of my colleagues in the Art & Graphic Design Department designs
the make-up, assisted by various students in the fashion department.
Then we dress 'em up and shoot photos. here's my favorite from this
year: http://www.robertstech.com/temp/zombies.jpg




I just don't get this fascination with zombies all of a sudden.


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Re: PSEO: Zombies!

[John]

Cofe!

On 10/24/2015 7:41 PM, Bob W-PDML wrote:

When I was a student we looked like that all the time.

B


On 24 Oct 2015, at 23:56, Mark Roberts  wrote:

Every Halloween we get a group of students to pose for zombie photos
which we make into posters for display at the college Halloween bash.
One of my colleagues in the Art & Graphic Design Department designs
the make-up, assisted by various students in the fashion department.
Then we dress 'em up and shoot photos. here's my favorite from this
year: http://www.robertstech.com/temp/zombies.jpg






--
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Religion - Answers we must never question.

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Re: Geso Crazy Horse in the Black Hills

[Paul Stenquist]

No, you asked if we wanted tourists in the Dakotas. Although I confess to not 
having read the entire thread. Busy doing laundry.

Paul via phone

> On Oct 25, 2015, at 2:08 PM, knarf  wrote:
> 
> That's EXACTLY what I said, Paul. It's either "tourism everywhere" or 
> "tourism nowhere".
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> frank
> 
>> On October 25, 2015 1:45:14 PM EDT, Paul Stenquist  
>> wrote:
>> Are tourists desirable anywhere? We could all stay in our rooms with
>> shades drawn.
>> 
>> Paul via phone
>> 
>>> On Oct 25, 2015, at 12:38 PM, knarf  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Is bringing tourists out there desirable? 
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> frank 
>>> 
 On October 24, 2015 5:40:43 PM EDT, Bob Sullivan
>>  wrote:
 Ann,
 You need to get over it.
 The sculpture has brought thousands (millions) out to look at the
>> Black
 Hills.
 Otherwise, folks would never go there.
 Regards,  Bob S.
 
 On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 4:34 PM, ann sanfedele 
 wrote:
> In answer to Mt. RUshmore?
> 
> Ithink they areboth desecrating nature , but asa reply to Rushmore
 bothers
> me less  -
> 
> Nice shots, Don -
> 
>> On 10/24/2015 2:25 PM, Jack Davis wrote:
>> 
>> I imagine the thought of just tweeting
>> the viewing area and being done with it is prevalent in the teams
 quiet
>> mutterings.
>> 
>> J
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 24, 2015, at 10:28 AM, knarf 
 wrote:
>>> 
>>> I wouldn't say it's hideous artwork but it's certainly a
 desecration of a
>>> beautiful natural formation.
>>> 
>>> If they stopped now I'd be pretty pleased.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> frank
>>> 
 On October 24, 2015 12:03:12 PM EDT, Donald Guthrie
  wrote:
 On the subject of statues carved out of the hillside this one is
 among
 the controversial set. Is it the hopeless dream that will be
>> never
 completed, another hideous artwork, or a great tribute to Native
 Americans who have blessed the project. It is being done
>> entirely
 with
 private funding & contributions. But many complain that more
>> money
 has
 been spent on the observation point than on the carving.
 
 These photos were all taken in September 2015 from the
>> observation
 building which is a mile from the statue.
 
 https://www.flickr.com/gp/valdon/340104
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson
>>> 
>>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my
 brevity.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>> PDML@pdml.net
>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly
>> above
 and
>>> follow the directions.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above
 and
> follow the directions.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson
>>> 
>>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>> PDML@pdml.net
>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above
>> and follow the directions.
> 
> -- 
> 
> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson
> 
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> 
> -- 
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Re: Geso Crazy Horse in the Black Hills

[Jack Davis]

I would think the Gov. has long
since made it's decision in support
of continuing with the project "as 
long as it's financially feasible."

J

 






Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 25, 2015, at 11:25 AM, knarf  wrote:
> 
> The Government should decide. 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> frank 
> 
>> On October 25, 2015 2:20:11 PM EDT, Paul Stenquist  
>> wrote:
>> Who should make the assessment? Evidently both Rushmore and Crazy Horse
>> were judged worthy.
>> 
>> Paul via phone
>> 
>>> On Oct 25, 2015, at 1:57 PM, knarf  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Slippery slope argument Paul. Won't work.
>>> 
>>> Of course, every human activity, indeed every activity of every
>> thing, has an ecological impact.
>>> 
>>> We need to assess each activity individually and decide if the impact
>> is desirable or not, irrespective of what other impacts have occurred
>> at other places and times. 
>>> 
>>> Whatever may have been drawn in French caves tens of thousands of
>> years ago is quite irrelevant to what's happening today. 
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> frank
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On October 25, 2015 1:43:46 PM EDT, Paul Stenquist
>>  wrote:
 By extension one could argue that the cave paintings of early humans
 desecrated nature. Mankind leaves it's mark and writes a history for
 better or worse. It's the way of the world.
 
 Paul via phone
 
> On Oct 25, 2015, at 11:59 AM, John  wrote:
> 
> According to Wikipedia, encouraging tourism was the original reason
 for creating it.
> 
> 
>> On 10/24/2015 5:40 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote:
>> Ann,
>> You need to get over it.
>> The sculpture has brought thousands (millions) out to look at the
 Black Hills.
>> Otherwise, folks would never go there.
>> Regards,  Bob S.
>> 
>>> On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 4:34 PM, ann sanfedele
>> 
 wrote:
>>> In answer to Mt. RUshmore?
>>> 
>>> Ithink they areboth desecrating nature , but asa reply to
>> Rushmore
 bothers
>>> me less  -
>>> 
>>> Nice shots, Don -
>>> 
 On 10/24/2015 2:25 PM, Jack Davis wrote:
 
 I imagine the thought of just tweeting
 the viewing area and being done with it is prevalent in the
>> teams
 quiet
 mutterings.
 
 J
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Oct 24, 2015, at 10:28 AM, knarf 
 wrote:
> 
> I wouldn't say it's hideous artwork but it's certainly a
 desecration of a
> beautiful natural formation.
> 
> If they stopped now I'd be pretty pleased.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> frank
> 
>> On October 24, 2015 12:03:12 PM EDT, Donald Guthrie
>>  wrote:
>> On the subject of statues carved out of the hillside this one
>> is
 among
>> the controversial set. Is it the hopeless dream that will be
 never
>> completed, another hideous artwork, or a great tribute to
>> Native
>> Americans who have blessed the project. It is being done
 entirely with
>> private funding & contributions. But many complain that more
 money has
>> been spent on the observation point than on the carving.
>> 
>> These photos were all taken in September 2015 from the
 observation
>> building which is a mile from the statue.
>> 
>> https://www.flickr.com/gp/valdon/340104
> 
> 
> -- 
> Science - Questions we may never find answers for.
> Religion - Answers we must never question.
> 
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above
 and follow the directions.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson
>>> 
>>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>> PDML@pdml.net
>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above
>> and follow the directions.
> 
> -- 
> 
> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson
> 
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> 
> -- 
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Re: Geso Crazy Horse in the Black Hills

[Jack Davis]

Time will eventually replace it all.

J

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 25, 2015, at 10:43 AM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
> 
> By extension one could argue that the cave paintings of early humans 
> desecrated nature. Mankind leaves it's mark and writes a history for better 
> or worse. It's the way of the world.
> 
> Paul via phone
> 
>> On Oct 25, 2015, at 11:59 AM, John  wrote:
>> 
>> According to Wikipedia, encouraging tourism was the original reason for 
>> creating it.
>> 
>> 
>>> On 10/24/2015 5:40 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote:
>>> Ann,
>>> You need to get over it.
>>> The sculpture has brought thousands (millions) out to look at the Black 
>>> Hills.
>>> Otherwise, folks would never go there.
>>> Regards,  Bob S.
>>> 
 On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 4:34 PM, ann sanfedele  wrote:
 In answer to Mt. RUshmore?
 
 Ithink they areboth desecrating nature , but asa reply to Rushmore bothers
 me less  -
 
 Nice shots, Don -
 
> On 10/24/2015 2:25 PM, Jack Davis wrote:
> 
> I imagine the thought of just tweeting
> the viewing area and being done with it is prevalent in the teams quiet
> mutterings.
> 
> J
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 24, 2015, at 10:28 AM, knarf  wrote:
>> 
>> I wouldn't say it's hideous artwork but it's certainly a desecration of a
>> beautiful natural formation.
>> 
>> If they stopped now I'd be pretty pleased.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> frank
>> 
>>> On October 24, 2015 12:03:12 PM EDT, Donald Guthrie
>>>  wrote:
>>> On the subject of statues carved out of the hillside this one is among
>>> the controversial set. Is it the hopeless dream that will be never
>>> completed, another hideous artwork, or a great tribute to Native
>>> Americans who have blessed the project. It is being done entirely with
>>> private funding & contributions. But many complain that more money has
>>> been spent on the observation point than on the carving.
>>> 
>>> These photos were all taken in September 2015 from the observation
>>> building which is a mile from the statue.
>>> 
>>> https://www.flickr.com/gp/valdon/340104
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Science - Questions we may never find answers for.
>> Religion - Answers we must never question.
>> 
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Re: Geso Crazy Horse in the Black Hills

[Bill]

On 10/25/2015 12:25 PM, knarf wrote:

The Government should decide.



Ouch.
I hope not.


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Re: Geso Crazy Horse in the Black Hills

[John]

Tourists go to Paris for the Eiffel Tower; London for Big Ben; Rome for
the Colosseum. They go to Egypt for the pyramids & the Spinx. Tourism
provides a significant revenue in each of those places.

Why should the Dakotas be denied?


On 10/25/2015 12:38 PM, knarf wrote:

Is bringing tourists out there desirable?

Cheers,

frank

On October 24, 2015 5:40:43 PM EDT, Bob Sullivan  wrote:

Ann,
You need to get over it.
The sculpture has brought thousands (millions) out to look at the Black
Hills.
Otherwise, folks would never go there.
Regards,  Bob S.

On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 4:34 PM, ann sanfedele 
wrote:

In answer to Mt. RUshmore?

Ithink they areboth desecrating nature , but asa reply to Rushmore

bothers

me less  -

Nice shots, Don -

On 10/24/2015 2:25 PM, Jack Davis wrote:


I imagine the thought of just tweeting
the viewing area and being done with it is prevalent in the teams

quiet

mutterings.

J


Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 24, 2015, at 10:28 AM, knarf 

wrote:


I wouldn't say it's hideous artwork but it's certainly a

desecration of a

beautiful natural formation.

If they stopped now I'd be pretty pleased.

Cheers,

frank


On October 24, 2015 12:03:12 PM EDT, Donald Guthrie
 wrote:
On the subject of statues carved out of the hillside this one is

among

the controversial set. Is it the hopeless dream that will be never
completed, another hideous artwork, or a great tribute to Native
Americans who have blessed the project. It is being done entirely

with

private funding & contributions. But many complain that more money

has

been spent on the observation point than on the carving.

These photos were all taken in September 2015 from the observation
building which is a mile from the statue.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/valdon/340104




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Religion - Answers we must never question.

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Re: Geso Crazy Horse in the Black Hills

[Paul Stenquist]

Who should make the assessment? Evidently both Rushmore and Crazy Horse were 
judged worthy.

Paul via phone

> On Oct 25, 2015, at 1:57 PM, knarf  wrote:
> 
> Slippery slope argument Paul. Won't work.
> 
> Of course, every human activity, indeed every activity of every thing, has an 
> ecological impact.
> 
> We need to assess each activity individually and decide if the impact is 
> desirable or not, irrespective of what other impacts have occurred at other 
> places and times. 
> 
> Whatever may have been drawn in French caves tens of thousands of years ago 
> is quite irrelevant to what's happening today. 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> frank
> 
> 
> 
>> On October 25, 2015 1:43:46 PM EDT, Paul Stenquist  
>> wrote:
>> By extension one could argue that the cave paintings of early humans
>> desecrated nature. Mankind leaves it's mark and writes a history for
>> better or worse. It's the way of the world.
>> 
>> Paul via phone
>> 
>>> On Oct 25, 2015, at 11:59 AM, John  wrote:
>>> 
>>> According to Wikipedia, encouraging tourism was the original reason
>> for creating it.
>>> 
>>> 
 On 10/24/2015 5:40 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote:
 Ann,
 You need to get over it.
 The sculpture has brought thousands (millions) out to look at the
>> Black Hills.
 Otherwise, folks would never go there.
 Regards,  Bob S.
 
> On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 4:34 PM, ann sanfedele 
>> wrote:
> In answer to Mt. RUshmore?
> 
> Ithink they areboth desecrating nature , but asa reply to Rushmore
>> bothers
> me less  -
> 
> Nice shots, Don -
> 
>> On 10/24/2015 2:25 PM, Jack Davis wrote:
>> 
>> I imagine the thought of just tweeting
>> the viewing area and being done with it is prevalent in the teams
>> quiet
>> mutterings.
>> 
>> J
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 24, 2015, at 10:28 AM, knarf 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I wouldn't say it's hideous artwork but it's certainly a
>> desecration of a
>>> beautiful natural formation.
>>> 
>>> If they stopped now I'd be pretty pleased.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> frank
>>> 
 On October 24, 2015 12:03:12 PM EDT, Donald Guthrie
  wrote:
 On the subject of statues carved out of the hillside this one is
>> among
 the controversial set. Is it the hopeless dream that will be
>> never
 completed, another hideous artwork, or a great tribute to Native
 Americans who have blessed the project. It is being done
>> entirely with
 private funding & contributions. But many complain that more
>> money has
 been spent on the observation point than on the carving.
 
 These photos were all taken in September 2015 from the
>> observation
 building which is a mile from the statue.
 
 https://www.flickr.com/gp/valdon/340104
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Science - Questions we may never find answers for.
>>> Religion - Answers we must never question.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>> PDML@pdml.net
>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above
>> and follow the directions.
> 
> -- 
> 
> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson
> 
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> 
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Re: Geso Crazy Horse in the Black Hills

[knarf]

The Government should decide. 

Cheers,

frank 

On October 25, 2015 2:20:11 PM EDT, Paul Stenquist  
wrote:
>Who should make the assessment? Evidently both Rushmore and Crazy Horse
>were judged worthy.
>
>Paul via phone
>
>> On Oct 25, 2015, at 1:57 PM, knarf  wrote:
>> 
>> Slippery slope argument Paul. Won't work.
>> 
>> Of course, every human activity, indeed every activity of every
>thing, has an ecological impact.
>> 
>> We need to assess each activity individually and decide if the impact
>is desirable or not, irrespective of what other impacts have occurred
>at other places and times. 
>> 
>> Whatever may have been drawn in French caves tens of thousands of
>years ago is quite irrelevant to what's happening today. 
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> frank
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On October 25, 2015 1:43:46 PM EDT, Paul Stenquist
> wrote:
>>> By extension one could argue that the cave paintings of early humans
>>> desecrated nature. Mankind leaves it's mark and writes a history for
>>> better or worse. It's the way of the world.
>>> 
>>> Paul via phone
>>> 
 On Oct 25, 2015, at 11:59 AM, John  wrote:
 
 According to Wikipedia, encouraging tourism was the original reason
>>> for creating it.
 
 
> On 10/24/2015 5:40 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote:
> Ann,
> You need to get over it.
> The sculpture has brought thousands (millions) out to look at the
>>> Black Hills.
> Otherwise, folks would never go there.
> Regards,  Bob S.
> 
>> On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 4:34 PM, ann sanfedele
>
>>> wrote:
>> In answer to Mt. RUshmore?
>> 
>> Ithink they areboth desecrating nature , but asa reply to
>Rushmore
>>> bothers
>> me less  -
>> 
>> Nice shots, Don -
>> 
>>> On 10/24/2015 2:25 PM, Jack Davis wrote:
>>> 
>>> I imagine the thought of just tweeting
>>> the viewing area and being done with it is prevalent in the
>teams
>>> quiet
>>> mutterings.
>>> 
>>> J
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Oct 24, 2015, at 10:28 AM, knarf 
>>> wrote:
 
 I wouldn't say it's hideous artwork but it's certainly a
>>> desecration of a
 beautiful natural formation.
 
 If they stopped now I'd be pretty pleased.
 
 Cheers,
 
 frank
 
> On October 24, 2015 12:03:12 PM EDT, Donald Guthrie
>  wrote:
> On the subject of statues carved out of the hillside this one
>is
>>> among
> the controversial set. Is it the hopeless dream that will be
>>> never
> completed, another hideous artwork, or a great tribute to
>Native
> Americans who have blessed the project. It is being done
>>> entirely with
> private funding & contributions. But many complain that more
>>> money has
> been spent on the observation point than on the carving.
> 
> These photos were all taken in September 2015 from the
>>> observation
> building which is a mile from the statue.
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/gp/valdon/340104
 
 
 -- 
 Science - Questions we may never find answers for.
 Religion - Answers we must never question.
 
 -- 
 PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 PDML@pdml.net
 http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
 to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above
>>> and follow the directions.
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson
>> 
>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>> 
>> -- 
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> PDML@pdml.net
>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above
>and follow the directions.

-- 

"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -- Henri Cartier-Bresson

Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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Re: Geso Crazy Horse in the Black Hills

[John]

Don't lump me in with those who consider it a desecration of nature.

Bob pointed out that it had "brought thousands (millions) out to look at
the Black Hills" and I noted encouraging tourism was the original
purpose for which it was intended, and that seems to have worked.

I would like to see more progress on the Crazy Horse monument, but I don't
expect I'll get to see it.

On 10/25/2015 1:43 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:

By extension one could argue that the cave paintings of early humans
desecrated nature. Mankind leaves it's mark and writes a history for
better or worse. It's the way of the world.

Paul via phone


On Oct 25, 2015, at 11:59 AM, John  wrote:

According to Wikipedia, encouraging tourism was the original reason
for creating it.



On 10/24/2015 5:40 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote: Ann, You need to get
over it. The sculpture has brought thousands (millions) out to
look at the Black Hills. Otherwise, folks would never go there.
Regards,  Bob S.


On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 4:34 PM, ann sanfedele
 wrote: In answer to Mt. RUshmore?

Ithink they areboth desecrating nature , but asa reply to
Rushmore bothers me less  -

Nice shots, Don -


On 10/24/2015 2:25 PM, Jack Davis wrote:

I imagine the thought of just tweeting the viewing area and
being done with it is prevalent in the teams quiet
mutterings.

J


Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 24, 2015, at 10:28 AM, knarf
 wrote:

I wouldn't say it's hideous artwork but it's certainly a
desecration of a beautiful natural formation.

If they stopped now I'd be pretty pleased.

Cheers,

frank


On October 24, 2015 12:03:12 PM EDT, Donald Guthrie
 wrote: On the subject of statues
carved out of the hillside this one is among the
controversial set. Is it the hopeless dream that will be
never completed, another hideous artwork, or a great
tribute to Native Americans who have blessed the project.
It is being done entirely with private funding &
contributions. But many complain that more money has been
spent on the observation point than on the carving.

These photos were all taken in September 2015 from the
observation building which is a mile from the statue.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/valdon/340104



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Religion - Answers we must never question.

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Re: Geso Crazy Horse in the Black Hills

[John]

Might have been what you meant, but it's *NOT* what you wrote.

On 10/25/2015 2:08 PM, knarf wrote:

That's EXACTLY what I said, Paul. It's either "tourism everywhere" or "tourism 
nowhere".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

Cheers,

frank

On October 25, 2015 1:45:14 PM EDT, Paul Stenquist  
wrote:

Are tourists desirable anywhere? We could all stay in our rooms with
shades drawn.

Paul via phone


On Oct 25, 2015, at 12:38 PM, knarf  wrote:

Is bringing tourists out there desirable?

Cheers,

frank




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