Re: OT: Tablets or Pads

[Bill]

On 10/7/2016 4:21 PM, ann sanfedele wrote:

John - You're going to hate I-pads... don't do it.


Seconded. I bought an iPad specifically to run my quad copter.  That's 
about all it's good for.


It's the best built piece of fucked up crap I have ever had the 
displeasure of using, and to use it I had to submit to joining the Apple 
Collective.

That's adding insult to injury at it's finest.
I'd have rather been assimilated by the Borg, At least then I could 
boink 7 of 9.
Actually, that's a really good reason to be assimilated by the Borg, but 
I digress.


My old tablet is an Asus Transformer, which would clip onto a real 
keyboard. I don't know if they are still available. It's problem was 
that it could be right beside my router and still have flaky connectivity.

At least it had an SD port on the keyboard and a mini SD on the screen.

But fuck me with a dead squirrel, I hate Apple.

Someone ran over my favorite squirrel a couple of days ago. Poor little 
bastard.
There's only one thing I hate more than the prick that ran over my 
squirrel, and that's donald trump.
I only have one thing against that fucked up piece of shit, that being 
he has a pulse.


Sorry kids, I'm really drunk. I'll probably hate myself for this in the 
morning.

Except for the donald trump part. I'm serious as a heart attack about that.

Hangover, here I come.

Remember, friends don't let friends buy Apple Crapple.



I hate 'em too .. all touch screens..

and , like you, I have a lovely little flip phone that only does text
and voice - no web connectivity.

and a reliable land line  which was the ONLY thing that worked during
Sandy and the only communication device that worked on 9/11

ann


On 10/7/2016 3:51 PM, John wrote:

I'm still not interested in a smart phone, but I have started thinking
about maybe getting a tablet or a pad to display photographs.

1. I want one that does NOT require me to have a cell phone account & a
data plan. WiFi is Ok.

2. I want one that will let me plug in a USB thumb drive & download the
photos to the tablet/pad or that will allow me to plug in a SDHC card
with the photos on it.

3. I want one that recharges either from a wall wart or USB (or both).

4. I *HATE* touchscreens, so it should be easy to clean grubby
fingerprints off the screen.

I welcome your recommendations.









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FS FRiday - (drum roll) MY new National Parks Panoramic view calendar! :-)

[ann sanfedele]

Here is da link --

https://annsan.smugmug.com/Works-in-Print/Calendars-in-Print/2017-calendar-work/

I'm printing them myself - actually prefer that people either buy the 
small calendar for these (versus the flower calendar introduced earlier) 
as I


don't have a wide enough comb binding machine to go along anything wider 
than 11 inches.


PLease note, you over seas guys especially, that you can download the 
whole gallery and print them yourself. Alan C suggested I offer that as 
an option


as shipping the print version to such far reaching places as where he 
lives would be porhibitively expensive... so Alan, ahem, ahem... how 
about taking that


option? $3.00, $8.50, $12 depending on resolution - and you really don't 
need the highest resolution.  The photos alone are included in the 
gallery pricing.


I've already sold a few - and I'd like orders early so Ican space out 
the printing.  All will be shipped by the end of November at the latest.


ann


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RE: Tablets or Pads

[John Coyle]

John, I've used a Microsoft Surface (first version) that does all of that.  
Will use any available
Wi-Fi connection, automatically connects to known ones, does have only one USB 
port but I use a
plug-in four port hub nowadays, so that I can add a mouse and keyboard.
Standard wall outlet power connection, but I don't think it could recharge from 
another USB source
(never tried to).  If you have a Microsoft account you'd be able to upload the 
photos to your One
Drive from it.
HTH


John in Brisbane

 

-Original Message-
From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of John
Sent: Saturday, 8 October 2016 5:52 AM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
Subject: OT: Tablets or Pads

I'm still not interested in a smart phone, but I have started thinking about 
maybe getting a tablet
or a pad to display photographs.

1. I want one that does NOT require me to have a cell phone account & a data 
plan. WiFi is Ok.

2. I want one that will let me plug in a USB thumb drive & download the photos 
to the tablet/pad or
that will allow me to plug in a SDHC card with the photos on it.

3. I want one that recharges either from a wall wart or USB (or both).

4. I *HATE* touchscreens, so it should be easy to clean grubby fingerprints off 
the screen.

I welcome your recommendations.



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Religion - Answers we must never question.

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PESO - Morning Mist

[Rick Womer]

The last from August in New Hampshire:

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=18286284=lg

(K-5, DA 50-200)

Comments appreciated.

Rick




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PESO - In Step

[Igor PDML-StR]

Of the three photos, I like this the most.
The B look (and what seems to be not just straight B, but slightly 
toned?) gives a sort of "classic"/retro mood.
And the modern selfie-stick and a baseball cap (?) create the contrast 
with that retro mood.


But the "in step" is funny too!

One comment: the images are too large to be viewed comfortably without 
scrolling in the browser. It of course depends on your target audience. 
Maybe on a 4k-5k display they look ok, but on a cell phone, laptop I had 
to scroll both vertically and horizontally.

One of the images is 1,261px × 821px, another is 1,261px × 793px...
Both are above 720p screen. And then there are extremely wide margins 
on all 4 sides (not clear why?)
Scrolling a photo, especially in two directions is painful for the viewing 
pleasure.



My laptop's screen is 1280x800, (and the one of the phone is even slightly 
smaller). Even when I looked at these photos on my desktop screen 
1920x1200, I had to scroll or to maximize the browser window to the full 
screen. I almost never maximize any program on my desktop display 
(except for _some_ videos). I purposely have windows size so that I can 
have easily swich between different projects.


I hope you will consider a different format for the sake of your viewers.


Cheers,

Igor



 Steve Cottrell Fri, 07 Oct 2016 14:50:20 -0700 wrote:


'Selfie, Liverpool 2016
Olympus Pen F + Pentax 24/2.8




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Re: GESO -- One day in Hammonasset (Rerun)

[Brian Walters]

The gallery renders fine but I see Ann's point. You do need to scroll
the images to see them fully. 


Cheers

Brian

++
Brian Walters
Western Sydney Australia
http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/




On Sat, Oct 8, 2016, at 09:40 AM, ann sanfedele wrote:
> I liked most of the feathered ones...
> 
>   especially the "spotted sandpiperscomplaining" and the Cormy hanging 
> his wings out to dry..
> 
> But the viewing was painfulin firefox...   I had to reduce the page to 
> 50% or the thumbnails at the bottom and that white strip at the top 
> prevented me from seeing the main photo fully.   In Chrome I had to 
> reduce it to 75% ...
> 
> The large strip on the top takes up too much room ... the strip at the 
> bottom, as an index, is not so bad... don't knwo how much control you 
> have over that stuff.
> 
> my two cents
> 
> ann
> 
> 
> On 10/7/2016 12:33 PM, P.J. Alling wrote:
> > So I decided to test out using a generated Web Gallery by my ancient 
> > copy of Photoshop.  These were taken in spring of last year.  I went 
> > to Hammonasset State park to shoot wildlife, actually looking for 
> > Harbor Seals, which I always seem to miss. So I settled for two 
> > different kinds of birds*...
> >
> > https://pdml.updog.co/Hammonasset/
> >
> > I'd appreciate feedback about whether it seems to render properly or 
> > not, though it works for me.  The actual addressing was easy though it 
> > took me a bit of trial and error before I could get it to work.  It 
> > was actually too easy.
> >
> > *Anyone too young should look up the slang usage of Birds from the 
> > England in the early 1960s.
> >
> 
> 
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Re: PESO - In Step

[John]

On 10/7/2016 5:47 PM, Steve Cottrell wrote:

'In Step, Liverpool 2016'
Olympus Pen F + Pentax 24/2.8






There's a rara avis indeed. The second "bird" appears to have a SLR.

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Re: PESO: PDML Liverpool

[ann sanfedele]

Hey , I know this lot in person too!

Didn't know they were an exhibit though

ann


On 10/7/2016 3:51 PM, Bob W-PDML wrote:

Groovy - it's the Fab Five!


On 7 Oct 2016, at 17:12, Mark Roberts  wrote:

http://www.robertstech.com/temp/pdml-liverpool.jpg

Cotty's the tall git in the middle, Chris is the tall git on the left and I'm 
the tall git on the right.


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Re: GESO -- One day in Hammonasset (Rerun)

[ann sanfedele]

I liked most of the feathered ones...

 especially the "spotted sandpiperscomplaining" and the Cormy hanging 
his wings out to dry..


But the viewing was painfulin firefox...   I had to reduce the page to 
50% or the thumbnails at the bottom and that white strip at the top 
prevented me from seeing the main photo fully.   In Chrome I had to 
reduce it to 75% ...


The large strip on the top takes up too much room ... the strip at the 
bottom, as an index, is not so bad... don't knwo how much control you 
have over that stuff.


my two cents

ann


On 10/7/2016 12:33 PM, P.J. Alling wrote:
So I decided to test out using a generated Web Gallery by my ancient 
copy of Photoshop.  These were taken in spring of last year.  I went 
to Hammonasset State park to shoot wildlife, actually looking for 
Harbor Seals, which I always seem to miss. So I settled for two 
different kinds of birds*...


https://pdml.updog.co/Hammonasset/

I'd appreciate feedback about whether it seems to render properly or 
not, though it works for me.  The actual addressing was easy though it 
took me a bit of trial and error before I could get it to work.  It 
was actually too easy.


*Anyone too young should look up the slang usage of Birds from the 
England in the early 1960s.





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Re: PESO - Selfie

[Steve Cottrell]

On 7/10/16, ann sanfedele, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Har!  Terrific shot!

Thanks :-)

>I was a bit reluctant to check it out, fearing ... well, you know :-)

Yep ;-) 



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Re: PESO - In Step

[Steve Cottrell]

On 7/10/16, ann sanfedele, discombobulated, unleashed:

>waited for that one did ya? - nice

Oddly enough didn't take too long for an in-line pair!

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Re: PESO - Birds

[Steve Cottrell]

On 7/10/16, ann sanfedele, discombobulated, unleashed:

>I get the feeling both species know the guy with the bag ... and are 
>greeting him waiting for handouts. yes?

Might be ;-)

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Re: PESO - Selfie

[ann sanfedele]

Har!  Terrific shot!

I was a bit reluctant to check it out, fearing ... well, you know :-)

ann


On 10/7/2016 5:49 PM, Steve Cottrell wrote:

'Selfie, Liverpool 2016
Olympus Pen F + Pentax 24/2.8






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Re: PESO - In Step

[ann sanfedele]

waited for that one did ya? - nice

ann


On 10/7/2016 5:47 PM, Steve Cottrell wrote:

'In Step, Liverpool 2016'
Olympus Pen F + Pentax 24/2.8







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Re: PESO - Birds

[ann sanfedele]

I get the feeling both species know the guy with the bag ... and are 
greeting him waiting for handouts. yes?


ann


On 10/7/2016 5:44 PM, Steve Cottrell wrote:

'Birds, Liverpool 2016'
Olympus Pen F + Pentax 24/2.8






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Re: OT: Tablets or Pads

[ann sanfedele]

John - You're going to hate I-pads... don't do it.

I hate 'em too .. all touch screens..

and , like you, I have a lovely little flip phone that only does text 
and voice - no web connectivity.


and a reliable land line  which was the ONLY thing that worked during 
Sandy and the only communication device that worked on 9/11


ann


On 10/7/2016 3:51 PM, John wrote:

I'm still not interested in a smart phone, but I have started thinking
about maybe getting a tablet or a pad to display photographs.

1. I want one that does NOT require me to have a cell phone account & a
data plan. WiFi is Ok.

2. I want one that will let me plug in a USB thumb drive & download the
photos to the tablet/pad or that will allow me to plug in a SDHC card
with the photos on it.

3. I want one that recharges either from a wall wart or USB (or both).

4. I *HATE* touchscreens, so it should be easy to clean grubby
fingerprints off the screen.

I welcome your recommendations.






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PESO - Selfie

[Steve Cottrell]

'Selfie, Liverpool 2016
Olympus Pen F + Pentax 24/2.8



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PESO - In Step

[Steve Cottrell]

'In Step, Liverpool 2016'
Olympus Pen F + Pentax 24/2.8




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PESO - Birds

[Steve Cottrell]

'Birds, Liverpool 2016'
Olympus Pen F + Pentax 24/2.8



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Re: PESO: PDML Liverpool

[Steve Cottrell]

Short and sweet meet in Scouserland. Had a lovely lunch in Albert Dock
and great to see Mark, Lisa, Karin and Chris (aged 102). Had an hour
meandering about the waterfront before time caught up with me and I had
to hot foot it outa there to family commitments. My father was 80 on
Thursday so I'm hanging about Abergele in North Wales for a couple of days.

PESOs posted elsewhere.

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Re: OT: Tablets or Pads

[Henk Terhell]

With most tablets it is easy to connect to a cheap ( about $10) 
bluetooth keyboard if you want minimal use of the touchscreen.
I bought one for my Google Pixel C tablet wheras the original separate 
keyboard from Google costs about $ 160.

The Pixel C has by the way excellent resolution for viewing pictures.

Henk

Op 2016-10-07 om 21:51 schreef John:

I'm still not interested in a smart phone, but I have started thinking
about maybe getting a tablet or a pad to display photographs.

1. I want one that does NOT require me to have a cell phone account & a
data plan. WiFi is Ok.

2. I want one that will let me plug in a USB thumb drive & download the
photos to the tablet/pad or that will allow me to plug in a SDHC card
with the photos on it.

3. I want one that recharges either from a wall wart or USB (or both).

4. I *HATE* touchscreens, so it should be easy to clean grubby
fingerprints off the screen.

I welcome your recommendations.






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Re: GESO -- One day in Hammonasset (Rerun)

[P.J. Alling]

On 10/7/2016 3:36 PM, John wrote:

On 10/7/2016 12:33 PM, P.J. Alling wrote:

So I decided to test out using a generated Web Gallery by my ancient
copy of Photoshop.  These were taken in spring of last year.  I went to
Hammonasset State park to shoot wildlife, actually looking for Harbor
Seals, which I always seem to miss. So I settled for two different kinds
of birds*...

https://pdml.updog.co/Hammonasset/

I'd appreciate feedback about whether it seems to render properly or
not, though it works for me.  The actual addressing was easy though it
took me a bit of trial and error before I could get it to work. It was
actually too easy.

*Anyone too young should look up the slang usage of Birds from the
England in the early 1960s.



Since you are old enough to remember the early 60s, you're lucky they
didn't lock you up as a "dirty old man".

... and I have been told that anyone who remembers the 60s didn't
actually experience them.

8-)




I was very young in the early 60's and quite precocious.

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Re: OT: Tablets or Pads

[Jostein Øksne]

Recently bought a Lenovo Yoga 3. Tapping its screen to write this. :-)  
It cost me about 160 USD, plus a micro SDXC card. I load images via Google 
Disk, flickr and Microsoft OneDrive through Wifi. 
Pleased with its battery and find the screen okay. I suspect the Samsung models 
with AMOLED screens are brighter, but none were available locally for similar 
prices at the time of purchase.
Jostein

Den 7. oktober 2016 21.51.48 CEST, skrev John :
>I'm still not interested in a smart phone, but I have started thinking
>about maybe getting a tablet or a pad to display photographs.
>
>1. I want one that does NOT require me to have a cell phone account & a
>data plan. WiFi is Ok.
>
>2. I want one that will let me plug in a USB thumb drive & download the
>photos to the tablet/pad or that will allow me to plug in a SDHC card
>with the photos on it.
>
>3. I want one that recharges either from a wall wart or USB (or both).
>
>4. I *HATE* touchscreens, so it should be easy to clean grubby
>fingerprints off the screen.
>
>I welcome your recommendations.

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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Re: PESO: PDML Liverpool

[Chris Mitchell]

Mark let me hold his K1. I'm honoured.

Chris

On 7 Oct 2016 17:12, "Mark Roberts"  wrote:

> http://www.robertstech.com/temp/pdml-liverpool.jpg
>
> Cotty's the tall git in the middle, Chris is the tall git on the left and
> I'm the tall git on the right.
>
>
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Re: PESO: PDML Liverpool

[Bob W-PDML]

Groovy - it's the Fab Five!

> On 7 Oct 2016, at 17:12, Mark Roberts  wrote:
> 
> http://www.robertstech.com/temp/pdml-liverpool.jpg
> 
> Cotty's the tall git in the middle, Chris is the tall git on the left and I'm 
> the tall git on the right.
> 
> 
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OT: Tablets or Pads

[John]

I'm still not interested in a smart phone, but I have started thinking
about maybe getting a tablet or a pad to display photographs.

1. I want one that does NOT require me to have a cell phone account & a
data plan. WiFi is Ok.

2. I want one that will let me plug in a USB thumb drive & download the
photos to the tablet/pad or that will allow me to plug in a SDHC card
with the photos on it.

3. I want one that recharges either from a wall wart or USB (or both).

4. I *HATE* touchscreens, so it should be easy to clean grubby
fingerprints off the screen.

I welcome your recommendations.



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Religion - Answers we must never question.

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Re: PESO: PDML Liverpool

[mike wilson]

More like Madonna, Billy Shears, Mr Kite and Lucy - but I can't get a handle on
the other.  Sir Walter Raleigh?

> On 07 October 2016 at 17:11 Mark Roberts  wrote:
> 
> 
> http://www.robertstech.com/temp/pdml-liverpool.jpg
> 
> Cotty's the tall git in the middle, Chris is the tall git on the left 
> and I'm the tall git on the right.

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Re: GESO -- One day in Hammonasset (Rerun)

[John]

On 10/7/2016 12:33 PM, P.J. Alling wrote:

So I decided to test out using a generated Web Gallery by my ancient
copy of Photoshop.  These were taken in spring of last year.  I went to
Hammonasset State park to shoot wildlife, actually looking for Harbor
Seals, which I always seem to miss. So I settled for two different kinds
of birds*...

https://pdml.updog.co/Hammonasset/

I'd appreciate feedback about whether it seems to render properly or
not, though it works for me.  The actual addressing was easy though it
took me a bit of trial and error before I could get it to work.  It was
actually too easy.

*Anyone too young should look up the slang usage of Birds from the
England in the early 1960s.



Since you are old enough to remember the early 60s, you're lucky they
didn't lock you up as a "dirty old man".

... and I have been told that anyone who remembers the 60s didn't
actually experience them.

8-)


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Re: OT: This makes so much sense!

[John]

The old land line telephones were also subject to this kind of
over-saturation as well. You just didn't have to worry about where you
were going to recharge your cellphone battery if the power was off for a
couple of weeks. If you couldn't get through, you could try again in a
few minutes & keep trying until you finally completed your call.

On 10/7/2016 11:38 AM, Gonz wrote:

Exactly Bob.  Cell phone service has a certain load rate expectation.
These load rates are exceeded in many situations.  It happened during
9/11, the Boston Marathon bombing, some storms in the south east, etc.
I remember that the batteries in the local trunk boxes were really
tall, the reason being that over time lead-acid batteries slough off
some of the lead from the plates, eventually shorting the plates and
rendering the battery useless.  By making them tall, the batteries had
an exceptional lifespan.  I always wanted to put one of those in my
car!  hehe


On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Bob Sullivan  wrote:

I miss the days when Ma Bell had batteries in every office to keep the
phones working.
15 years ago the exchange the office was on had a fire and went out of service.
The majority cell phone provider was overloaded and useless, no connectvity.
Something to think about.




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Re: OT - Dropbox and HTML Rendering

[John]

It worked, and NoScript didn't squawk about it like it used to do with
some of your dropbox PESOs.

Looks good to me.

ps: nice rock.

On 10/7/2016 2:25 AM, P.J. Alling wrote:

Well, I'm using very simple HTML pages, so I set up a updog.co page, and
it seems to work.  Not quite as easy as the old dropbox method but the
HTML renders properly at least for me.  I'm sending a link to test this
to the PDML, so feedback would be nice.

https://pdml.updog.co/PESO%20--%20divot.html

On 10/6/2016 11:47 PM, Brian Walters wrote:

As some of you know, Dropbox has discontinued HTML rendering on its
service.  A bit of a bummer if, like me, you were using Dropbox to host
the odd gallery or two.  I know one or two PDMLers were also using
Dropbox in this manner

However, there is a work-around that I found while looking for
work-arounds.  It involves using a free Dropbox app called updog.co
(https://updog.co/) - see the post by Anoop G about halfway down this
page:

https://www.dropboxforum.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/208778663-Discontinuing-rendering-of-HTML-content


I just moved a couple of my older Jalbum galleries into the updog.co
Dropbox folder, created a basic index page, told updog.co the name of
the site and - voila, it worked!

Here's how they now look on Dropbox.

https://galleries.updog.co/


  Cheers

Brian

++
Brian Walters
Western Sydney Australia
http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/







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Re: OT: This makes so much sense!

[John]

You could do it the old fashioned way & give news updates to all the
AM/FM radio stations in the area. Let them broadcast the news as part of
their public service requirement.

On 10/7/2016 10:23 AM, Igor PDML-StR wrote:


Ann,

I understand that.

However, practically, what would be a better solution?
Maybe setting a multiline automated system with a prerecorded message
informing about the outage status? But that might be impractical,
especially if it is a relatively small town with limited resources.
But maybe they have something like that?
I know that in our town (and the fact that there are several Title I
schools here is probably a good indicator of the social spread), -
the city has an outage reporting phone, where, during the outages some
(albeit rather limited) information is also provided.

On another hand, if you have a choice: to give information to some
people who might be able to have access to it (from home, cell phone,
neighbors, coffee shop, workplace) or to provide it to nobody, what
would you choose?
 In my opinion, it is better to benefit _some_ people then none at all.

Besides, the ubiquity of the web-based public information and services
is also pushing the idea that broadband internet (in various forms)
should become universally available even in the most rural areas, - in a
way that Communication Act of 1934 (and "Universal Service" principle)
brought the phone everywhere in the US.


As for the discrimination aspect that you pointed out, I think focusing
on the culprits is more important than fuming about the symptoms.

Igor


 ann sanfedele Thu, 06 Oct 2016 19:46:24 -0700 wrote:

Igor -

"Quite some people" in North Carolina don't have cell phones , or
computers - even here, some people don't have either - but they have a
telephone


Calling landlines and telling people to check a website isannoying
enough , but the amount of information these days that seems only to be
available with web access is just another form of discrimination...

ann


On 10/6/2016 10:05 PM, Igor PDML-StR wrote:


> John,

While I understand your thoughts (and sarcasm), I would like to point
out that quite some people use their cell phones to access a web site.
I was checking the outage extent from my cell when we lost the power
(happened 2-3 times in a row last year).

Besides, depending on the extent of the outage, internet might still
be working for some time after it. If, say, the outage is limited to
your subdivision, the modem is supposed to have a battery in it, and
so does the pole/cable equipment. Then it would depend how well the
ISP maintains those batteries; it varies.

And as far the personal computer equipment goes, - people often have
routers on a UPS, and some folks even have their own backup power
generators.

Igor



John Thu, 06 Oct 2016 18:40:58 -0700 wrote:

So I thought I'd share.

I just got a robo-call from my electric utility to warn me there might
be a "storm" in this area in the next few days, and that I should
consider in advance what to do if the power goes off.


One of the things they suggested was that if it DOES go off, I should
consult their web site to find out the extent of the outage. I'll make
sure to check, JUST AS SOON AS THE POWER COMES BACK ON!

Sometimes all you can do is laugh & cry at the same time.





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Re: OT: This makes so much sense!

[John]

Yeah, but wasn't Hurricane Hazel the last one that blew through your
area? I don't think you're going to have much of a problem from Matthew.

8-)

On 10/7/2016 6:54 AM, David J Brooks wrote:

I now have a smart phone but my plan does not include data and i need
wi fi to access the net, so i
'm toast

Dave

On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 10:45 PM, ann sanfedele  wrote:

Igor -
"Quite some people" in North Carolina don't have cell phones , or computers
- even here, some people don't have either - but they have a telephone

Calling landlines and telling people to check a website isannoying enough ,
but the amount of information these days that seems only to be available

with web access is just another form of discrimination...

ann




On 10/6/2016 10:05 PM, Igor PDML-StR wrote:



John,

While I understand your thoughts (and sarcasm), I would like to point out
that quite some people use their cell phones to access a web site.
I was checking the outage extent from my cell when we lost the power
(happened 2-3 times in a row last year).

Besides, depending on the extent of the outage, internet might still be
working for some time after it. If, say, the outage is limited to your
subdivision, the modem is supposed to have a battery in it, and so does the
pole/cable equipment. Then it would depend how well the ISP maintains those
batteries; it varies.

And as far the personal computer equipment goes, - people often have
routers on a UPS, and some folks even have their own backup power
generators.

Igor



John Thu, 06 Oct 2016 18:40:58 -0700 wrote:

So I thought I'd share.

I just got a robo-call from my electric utility to warn me there might
be a "storm" in this area in the next few days, and that I should
consider in advance what to do if the power goes off.


One of the things they suggested was that if it DOES go off, I should
consult their web site to find out the extent of the outage. I'll make
sure to check, JUST AS SOON AS THE POWER COMES BACK ON!

Sometimes all you can do is laugh & cry at the same time.




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Re: OT: This makes so much sense!

[John]

My last power outage caused by a hurricane was for slightly over 3 weeks.

OTOH, my regular old landline telephone had no service interruption
during that time.

I have all of my computers, the router & modem on Uninterruptible Power
Supplies. They are sized to give me about a half an hour extended power
so I can execute a graceful shutdown. I don't do internet on my cell
phone. I'm still using a flip phone that makes phone calls.

I've thought about getting a small generator so I can power the
refrigerator, coffee maker & a microwave oven. If the internet goes out
for three weeks I can read a book.

... guess I'd better plan on getting a generator large enough to power a
lamp as well.

On 10/6/2016 10:45 PM, ann sanfedele wrote:

Igor -
"Quite some people" in North Carolina don't have cell phones , or
computers - even here, some people don't have either - but they have a
telephone

Calling landlines and telling people to check a website isannoying
enough , but the amount of information these days that seems only to be
available

with web access is just another form of discrimination...

ann



On 10/6/2016 10:05 PM, Igor PDML-StR wrote:


John,

While I understand your thoughts (and sarcasm), I would like to point
out that quite some people use their cell phones to access a web site.
I was checking the outage extent from my cell when we lost the power
(happened 2-3 times in a row last year).

Besides, depending on the extent of the outage, internet might still
be working for some time after it. If, say, the outage is limited to
your subdivision, the modem is supposed to have a battery in it, and
so does the pole/cable equipment. Then it would depend how well the
ISP maintains those batteries; it varies.

And as far the personal computer equipment goes, - people often have
routers on a UPS, and some folks even have their own backup power
generators.

Igor



John Thu, 06 Oct 2016 18:40:58 -0700 wrote:

So I thought I'd share.

I just got a robo-call from my electric utility to warn me there might
be a "storm" in this area in the next few days, and that I should
consider in advance what to do if the power goes off.


One of the things they suggested was that if it DOES go off, I should
consult their web site to find out the extent of the outage. I'll make
sure to check, JUST AS SOON AS THE POWER COMES BACK ON!

Sometimes all you can do is laugh & cry at the same time.






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Re: GESO -- One day in Hammonasset (Rerun)

[Paul]

Seems to work fine w/Firefox 49.0.1 on Win10.  Would be nice to be able 
to cycle through the gallery using the cursor keys instead of having to 
use mouse clicks, but I imagine that's a part of the gallery generator 
not the site.


-p


On 10/7/2016 11:33 AM, P.J. Alling wrote:
So I decided to test out using a generated Web Gallery by my ancient 
copy of Photoshop.  These were taken in spring of last year.  I went 
to Hammonasset State park to shoot wildlife, actually looking for 
Harbor Seals, which I always seem to miss. So I settled for two 
different kinds of birds*...


https://pdml.updog.co/Hammonasset/

I'd appreciate feedback about whether it seems to render properly or 
not, though it works for me.  The actual addressing was easy though it 
took me a bit of trial and error before I could get it to work.  It 
was actually too easy.


*Anyone too young should look up the slang usage of Birds from the 
England in the early 1960s.




--
Being old doesn't seem so old now that I'm old.


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Re: OT: This makes so much sense!

[Igor PDML-StR]

It is not just the cell phone service. It applies to any service that 
assumes multiple resource consumers accessing the same resource, but not 
all at once. Most of those are NOT designed for the capacity that would 
provide ALL end users simultaneously. That would be too expensive and 
wasteful. There is always a "designed" capacity that could be based on the 
historic data, assumptions, models, etc.
That applies to: landline phones, ISPs, water, electricity, drainage, 
sewage,  fire/police department, roadway and public transport capacity ... 
That's why you occasionally have electric power blackouts, internet 
hiccups/slowdowns in the evenings, flash floods, traffic congestions, 
fully packed buses and subway trains, etc.


The cell phone systems have an additional limitation from the frequency 
spectrum allotted by the govermental agencies (FCC in the US). You have to 
allow a certain frequency range for each channel (conversation) to avoid 
interference between adjacent channels. And the minimum width of that is 
significantly affected by the capabilities of the (notch) filters in the 
cell tower switches.


So, increasing the capacity for simultaneous cell phone connections 
requires increased density of cell towers, with all obvious conseqencies 
and costs.



An aside: superconductor-based filters in provide much higher density of 
channels available for a given frequency range, and that's one of the 
motivations for searching for superconductors that can work at higher 
(ideally room) temperature. You might not know, but cell towers with 
superconducting electronics have been deployed since late 90s.
BTW, the limited capacity of the electric cables is the limiting factor 
for the electric power available for large metropolitan centers (such as 
NYC). And that also motivates the same research of superconductors.



Igor




Gonz Fri, 07 Oct 2016 08:46:12 -0700 wrote:

Exactly Bob.  Cell phone service has a certain load rate expectation.
These load rates are exceeded in many situations.  It happened during
9/11, the Boston Marathon bombing, some storms in the south east, etc.
I remember that the batteries in the local trunk boxes were really
tall, the reason being that over time lead-acid batteries slough off
some of the lead from the plates, eventually shorting the plates and
rendering the battery useless.  By making them tall, the batteries had
an exceptional lifespan.  I always wanted to put one of those in my
car!  hehe



On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Bob Sullivan  
wrote:

I miss the days when Ma Bell had batteries in every office to keep the
phones working.
15 years ago the exchange the office was on had a fire and went out of
service.
The majority cell phone provider was overloaded and useless, no 

connectvity.

Something to think about.

On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 7:59 AM, Paul Stenquist  

wrote:

Yep. Your public utility probably has an app for that. My electricity
provider, DTE Energy, posts updates as work progresses. The app allows
reporting of an outage, bill paying and more. Another app offered by 

the

utility monitors electricity usage in real time via the smart meter and
provides billing info as well. The neatest part of it all: a tool that
enables measurement of an appliances kilowatt demand by holding an 

iPhone

next to the power cord.

Paul via phone


On Oct 7, 2016, at 7:54 AM, Matthew Hunt  wrote:


On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 9:39 PM, John  wrote:

One of the things they suggested was that if it DOES go off, I should
consult their web site to find out the extent of the outage. I'll 

make

sure to check, JUST AS SOON AS THE POWER COMES BACK ON!


Smartphones, dude.


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GESO -- One day in Hammonasset (Rerun)

[P.J. Alling]

So I decided to test out using a generated Web Gallery by my ancient 
copy of Photoshop.  These were taken in spring of last year.  I went to 
Hammonasset State park to shoot wildlife, actually looking for Harbor 
Seals, which I always seem to miss. So I settled for two different kinds 
of birds*...


https://pdml.updog.co/Hammonasset/

I'd appreciate feedback about whether it seems to render properly or 
not, though it works for me.  The actual addressing was easy though it 
took me a bit of trial and error before I could get it to work.  It was 
actually too easy.


*Anyone too young should look up the slang usage of Birds from the England in 
the early 1960s.

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immortality through not dying.
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PESO: PDML Liverpool

[Mark Roberts]

http://www.robertstech.com/temp/pdml-liverpool.jpg

Cotty's the tall git in the middle, Chris is the tall git on the left 
and I'm the tall git on the right.



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Re: OT: This makes so much sense!

[Gonz]

Exactly Bob.  Cell phone service has a certain load rate expectation.
These load rates are exceeded in many situations.  It happened during
9/11, the Boston Marathon bombing, some storms in the south east, etc.
I remember that the batteries in the local trunk boxes were really
tall, the reason being that over time lead-acid batteries slough off
some of the lead from the plates, eventually shorting the plates and
rendering the battery useless.  By making them tall, the batteries had
an exceptional lifespan.  I always wanted to put one of those in my
car!  hehe


On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Bob Sullivan  wrote:
> I miss the days when Ma Bell had batteries in every office to keep the
> phones working.
> 15 years ago the exchange the office was on had a fire and went out of 
> service.
> The majority cell phone provider was overloaded and useless, no connectvity.
> Something to think about.
>
> On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 7:59 AM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
>> Yep. Your public utility probably has an app for that. My electricity 
>> provider, DTE Energy, posts updates as work progresses. The app allows 
>> reporting of an outage, bill paying and more. Another app offered by the 
>> utility monitors electricity usage in real time via the smart meter and 
>> provides billing info as well. The neatest part of it all: a tool that 
>> enables measurement of an appliances kilowatt demand by holding an iPhone 
>> next to the power cord.
>>
>> Paul via phone
>>
>>> On Oct 7, 2016, at 7:54 AM, Matthew Hunt  wrote:
>>>
 On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 9:39 PM, John  wrote:

 One of the things they suggested was that if it DOES go off, I should
 consult their web site to find out the extent of the outage. I'll make
 sure to check, JUST AS SOON AS THE POWER COMES BACK ON!
>>>
>>> Smartphones, dude.
>>>
>>> --
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Re: OT: This makes so much sense!

[Bob Sullivan]

I miss the days when Ma Bell had batteries in every office to keep the
phones working.
15 years ago the exchange the office was on had a fire and went out of service.
The majority cell phone provider was overloaded and useless, no connectvity.
Something to think about.

On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 7:59 AM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
> Yep. Your public utility probably has an app for that. My electricity 
> provider, DTE Energy, posts updates as work progresses. The app allows 
> reporting of an outage, bill paying and more. Another app offered by the 
> utility monitors electricity usage in real time via the smart meter and 
> provides billing info as well. The neatest part of it all: a tool that 
> enables measurement of an appliances kilowatt demand by holding an iPhone 
> next to the power cord.
>
> Paul via phone
>
>> On Oct 7, 2016, at 7:54 AM, Matthew Hunt  wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 9:39 PM, John  wrote:
>>>
>>> One of the things they suggested was that if it DOES go off, I should
>>> consult their web site to find out the extent of the outage. I'll make
>>> sure to check, JUST AS SOON AS THE POWER COMES BACK ON!
>>
>> Smartphones, dude.
>>
>> --
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>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and 
>> follow the directions.
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Re: OT - Dropbox and HTML Rendering

[Bob Sullivan]

a rocky start...

On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 1:25 AM, P.J. Alling  wrote:
> Well, I'm using very simple HTML pages, so I set up a updog.co page, and it
> seems to work.  Not quite as easy as the old dropbox method but the HTML
> renders properly at least for me.  I'm sending a link to test this to the
> PDML, so feedback would be nice.
>
> https://pdml.updog.co/PESO%20--%20divot.html
>
> On 10/6/2016 11:47 PM, Brian Walters wrote:
>>
>> As some of you know, Dropbox has discontinued HTML rendering on its
>> service.  A bit of a bummer if, like me, you were using Dropbox to host
>> the odd gallery or two.  I know one or two PDMLers were also using
>> Dropbox in this manner
>>
>> However, there is a work-around that I found while looking for
>> work-arounds.  It involves using a free Dropbox app called updog.co
>> (https://updog.co/) - see the post by Anoop G about halfway down this
>> page:
>>
>>
>> https://www.dropboxforum.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/208778663-Discontinuing-rendering-of-HTML-content
>>
>> I just moved a couple of my older Jalbum galleries into the updog.co
>> Dropbox folder, created a basic index page, told updog.co the name of
>> the site and - voila, it worked!
>>
>> Here's how they now look on Dropbox.
>>
>> https://galleries.updog.co/
>>
>>
>>   Cheers
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> ++
>> Brian Walters
>> Western Sydney Australia
>> http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve
> immortality through not dying.
> -- Woody Allen
>
>
>
> --
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Re: OT: This makes so much sense!

[Igor PDML-StR]

Ann,

I understand that.

However, practically, what would be a better solution?
Maybe setting a multiline automated system with a prerecorded message 
informing about the outage status? But that might be impractical, 
especially if it is a relatively small town with limited resources.

But maybe they have something like that?
I know that in our town (and the fact that there are several Title I 
schools here is probably a good indicator of the social spread), -
the city has an outage reporting phone, where, during the outages some 
(albeit rather limited) information is also provided.


On another hand, if you have a choice: to give information to some people 
who might be able to have access to it (from home, cell phone, neighbors, 
coffee shop, workplace) or to provide it to nobody, what would you choose?

 In my opinion, it is better to benefit _some_ people then none at all.

Besides, the ubiquity of the web-based public information and services is 
also pushing the idea that broadband internet (in various forms) should 
become universally available even in the most rural areas, - in a way that 
Communication Act of 1934 (and "Universal Service" principle) brought the 
phone everywhere in the US.



As for the discrimination aspect that you pointed out, I think focusing on 
the culprits is more important than fuming about the symptoms.


Igor


 ann sanfedele Thu, 06 Oct 2016 19:46:24 -0700 wrote:

Igor -

"Quite some people" in North Carolina don't have cell phones , or 
computers - even here, some people don't have either - but they have a 
telephone



Calling landlines and telling people to check a website isannoying enough 
, but the amount of information these days that seems only to be available 
with web access is just another form of discrimination...


ann


On 10/6/2016 10:05 PM, Igor PDML-StR wrote:


> John,

While I understand your thoughts (and sarcasm), I would like to point out 
that quite some people use their cell phones to access a web site.
I was checking the outage extent from my cell when we lost the power 
(happened 2-3 times in a row last year).


Besides, depending on the extent of the outage, internet might still be 
working for some time after it. If, say, the outage is limited to your 
subdivision, the modem is supposed to have a battery in it, and so does the 
pole/cable equipment. Then it would depend how well the ISP maintains those 
batteries; it varies.


And as far the personal computer equipment goes, - people often have routers 
on a UPS, and some folks even have their own backup power generators.


Igor



John Thu, 06 Oct 2016 18:40:58 -0700 wrote:

So I thought I'd share.

I just got a robo-call from my electric utility to warn me there might
be a "storm" in this area in the next few days, and that I should
consider in advance what to do if the power goes off.


One of the things they suggested was that if it DOES go off, I should
consult their web site to find out the extent of the outage. I'll make
sure to check, JUST AS SOON AS THE POWER COMES BACK ON!

Sometimes all you can do is laugh & cry at the same time.



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Re: OT: This makes so much sense!

[Paul Stenquist]

Yep. Your public utility probably has an app for that. My electricity provider, 
DTE Energy, posts updates as work progresses. The app allows reporting of an 
outage, bill paying and more. Another app offered by the utility monitors 
electricity usage in real time via the smart meter and provides billing info as 
well. The neatest part of it all: a tool that enables measurement of an 
appliances kilowatt demand by holding an iPhone next to the power cord.

Paul via phone

> On Oct 7, 2016, at 7:54 AM, Matthew Hunt  wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 9:39 PM, John  wrote:
>> 
>> One of the things they suggested was that if it DOES go off, I should
>> consult their web site to find out the extent of the outage. I'll make
>> sure to check, JUST AS SOON AS THE POWER COMES BACK ON!
> 
> Smartphones, dude.
> 
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Re: OT - Dropbox and HTML Rendering

[mike wilson]

I can confirm that your photography is as good as ever.

I'm getting my coat.

> On 07 October 2016 at 07:25 "P.J. Alling"  wrote:
> 
> 
> Well, I'm using very simple HTML pages, so I set up a updog.co page, and 
> it seems to work.  Not quite as easy as the old dropbox method but the 
> HTML renders properly at least for me.  I'm sending a link to test this 
> to the PDML, so feedback would be nice.
> 
> https://pdml.updog.co/PESO%20--%20divot.html
> 
> On 10/6/2016 11:47 PM, Brian Walters wrote:
> > As some of you know, Dropbox has discontinued HTML rendering on its
> > service.  A bit of a bummer if, like me, you were using Dropbox to host
> > the odd gallery or two.  I know one or two PDMLers were also using
> > Dropbox in this manner
> >
> > However, there is a work-around that I found while looking for
> > work-arounds.  It involves using a free Dropbox app called updog.co
> > (https://updog.co/) - see the post by Anoop G about halfway down this
> > page:
> >
> > https://www.dropboxforum.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/208778663-Discontinuing-rendering-of-HTML-content
> >
> > I just moved a couple of my older Jalbum galleries into the updog.co
> > Dropbox folder, created a basic index page, told updog.co the name of
> > the site and - voila, it worked!
> >
> > Here's how they now look on Dropbox.
> >
> > https://galleries.updog.co/

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Re: OT: This makes so much sense!

[Matthew Hunt]

On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 9:39 PM, John  wrote:

> One of the things they suggested was that if it DOES go off, I should
> consult their web site to find out the extent of the outage. I'll make
> sure to check, JUST AS SOON AS THE POWER COMES BACK ON!

Smartphones, dude.

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Re: OT: This makes so much sense!

[David J Brooks]

I now have a smart phone but my plan does not include data and i need
wi fi to access the net, so i
'm toast

Dave

On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 10:45 PM, ann sanfedele  wrote:
> Igor -
> "Quite some people" in North Carolina don't have cell phones , or computers
> - even here, some people don't have either - but they have a telephone
>
> Calling landlines and telling people to check a website isannoying enough ,
> but the amount of information these days that seems only to be available
>
> with web access is just another form of discrimination...
>
> ann
>
>
>
>
> On 10/6/2016 10:05 PM, Igor PDML-StR wrote:
>>
>>
>> John,
>>
>> While I understand your thoughts (and sarcasm), I would like to point out
>> that quite some people use their cell phones to access a web site.
>> I was checking the outage extent from my cell when we lost the power
>> (happened 2-3 times in a row last year).
>>
>> Besides, depending on the extent of the outage, internet might still be
>> working for some time after it. If, say, the outage is limited to your
>> subdivision, the modem is supposed to have a battery in it, and so does the
>> pole/cable equipment. Then it would depend how well the ISP maintains those
>> batteries; it varies.
>>
>> And as far the personal computer equipment goes, - people often have
>> routers on a UPS, and some folks even have their own backup power
>> generators.
>>
>> Igor
>>
>>
>>
>> John Thu, 06 Oct 2016 18:40:58 -0700 wrote:
>>
>> So I thought I'd share.
>>
>> I just got a robo-call from my electric utility to warn me there might
>> be a "storm" in this area in the next few days, and that I should
>> consider in advance what to do if the power goes off.
>>
>>
>> One of the things they suggested was that if it DOES go off, I should
>> consult their web site to find out the extent of the outage. I'll make
>> sure to check, JUST AS SOON AS THE POWER COMES BACK ON!
>>
>> Sometimes all you can do is laugh & cry at the same time.
>>
>
>
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York Region, Ontario, Canada

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Re: OT - Dropbox and HTML Rendering

[Brian Walters]

On Fri, Oct 7, 2016, at 05:34 PM, P.J. Alling wrote:
> As far as I'm concerned the good news is it works.  The bad news is all 
> the old links are now more less bad, mostly more bad.  A minor nit is 
> that the Webster26 Icon on most of my PESO pages is blocked by the updog 
> app, which is too bad, I liked that icon.
> 
> On 10/7/2016 2:25 AM, P.J. Alling wrote:
> > Well, I'm using very simple HTML pages, so I set up a updog.co page, 
> > and it seems to work.  Not quite as easy as the old dropbox method but 
> > the HTML renders properly at least for me.  I'm sending a link to test 
> > this to the PDML, so feedback would be nice.
> >
> > https://pdml.updog.co/PESO%20--%20divot.html



Yes - that works.

It seems that you can only have one website name with updog.co which is
why I created a simple index page to my galleries and linked the
individual albums from that page.  I'll pretty it up in due course and
add the other galleries.


Cheers

Brian

++
Brian Walters
Western Sydney Australia
http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/



> >
> > On 10/6/2016 11:47 PM, Brian Walters wrote:
> >> As some of you know, Dropbox has discontinued HTML rendering on its
> >> service.  A bit of a bummer if, like me, you were using Dropbox to host
> >> the odd gallery or two.  I know one or two PDMLers were also using
> >> Dropbox in this manner
> >>
> >> However, there is a work-around that I found while looking for
> >> work-arounds.  It involves using a free Dropbox app called updog.co
> >> (https://updog.co/) - see the post by Anoop G about halfway down this
> >> page:
> >>
> >> https://www.dropboxforum.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/208778663-Discontinuing-rendering-of-HTML-content
> >>  
> >>
> >>
> >> I just moved a couple of my older Jalbum galleries into the updog.co
> >> Dropbox folder, created a basic index page, told updog.co the name of
> >> the site and - voila, it worked!
> >>
> >> Here's how they now look on Dropbox.
> >>
> >> https://galleries.updog.co/
> >>
> >>
> >>   Cheers
> >>
> >> Brian
> >>
> >> ++
> >> Brian Walters
> >> Western Sydney Australia
> >> http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve
> immortality through not dying.
> -- Woody Allen
> 
> 
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Re: OT - Dropbox and HTML Rendering

[P.J. Alling]

As far as I'm concerned the good news is it works.  The bad news is all 
the old links are now more less bad, mostly more bad.  A minor nit is 
that the Webster26 Icon on most of my PESO pages is blocked by the updog 
app, which is too bad, I liked that icon.


On 10/7/2016 2:25 AM, P.J. Alling wrote:
Well, I'm using very simple HTML pages, so I set up a updog.co page, 
and it seems to work.  Not quite as easy as the old dropbox method but 
the HTML renders properly at least for me.  I'm sending a link to test 
this to the PDML, so feedback would be nice.


https://pdml.updog.co/PESO%20--%20divot.html

On 10/6/2016 11:47 PM, Brian Walters wrote:

As some of you know, Dropbox has discontinued HTML rendering on its
service.  A bit of a bummer if, like me, you were using Dropbox to host
the odd gallery or two.  I know one or two PDMLers were also using
Dropbox in this manner

However, there is a work-around that I found while looking for
work-arounds.  It involves using a free Dropbox app called updog.co
(https://updog.co/) - see the post by Anoop G about halfway down this
page:

https://www.dropboxforum.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/208778663-Discontinuing-rendering-of-HTML-content 



I just moved a couple of my older Jalbum galleries into the updog.co
Dropbox folder, created a basic index page, told updog.co the name of
the site and - voila, it worked!

Here's how they now look on Dropbox.

https://galleries.updog.co/


  Cheers

Brian

++
Brian Walters
Western Sydney Australia
http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/








--
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immortality through not dying.
-- Woody Allen


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Re: OT - Dropbox and HTML Rendering

[P.J. Alling]

Well, I'm using very simple HTML pages, so I set up a updog.co page, and 
it seems to work.  Not quite as easy as the old dropbox method but the 
HTML renders properly at least for me.  I'm sending a link to test this 
to the PDML, so feedback would be nice.


https://pdml.updog.co/PESO%20--%20divot.html

On 10/6/2016 11:47 PM, Brian Walters wrote:

As some of you know, Dropbox has discontinued HTML rendering on its
service.  A bit of a bummer if, like me, you were using Dropbox to host
the odd gallery or two.  I know one or two PDMLers were also using
Dropbox in this manner

However, there is a work-around that I found while looking for
work-arounds.  It involves using a free Dropbox app called updog.co
(https://updog.co/) - see the post by Anoop G about halfway down this
page:

https://www.dropboxforum.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/208778663-Discontinuing-rendering-of-HTML-content

I just moved a couple of my older Jalbum galleries into the updog.co
Dropbox folder, created a basic index page, told updog.co the name of
the site and - voila, it worked!

Here's how they now look on Dropbox.

https://galleries.updog.co/


  
Cheers


Brian

++
Brian Walters
Western Sydney Australia
http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/





--
I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve 
immortality through not dying.
-- Woody Allen


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