Re: "You must have a nice camera!": Results vs. Tools (or Toys)

[Bill]

On 7/15/2016 3:50 PM, Larry Colen wrote:



Boris Liberman wrote:

Igor, I am yet to hear someone tell me that my camera is nice. Which,
I am telling you, will be met with a wide smile...

However, more than once I was told that I must be professional
photographer or that my pictures look professional. This is always met
with a strong denial. However, I oftentimes use: "Oh no, it is my gear
that is so good at making pictures" lame excuse that fascinatingly
works more often than not.

Modern age common culture is built upon progressive disregard of human
factor and hence reliance of gear/automatics/you name it.



This goes hand in hand with my ongoing rant about the UI on cameras,
particularly the K-1, being optimized for  someone who wants an $1800
point and shoot. As more people transfer the technical skill set from
the photographer to the camera the quality of the camera becomes more
critical for more people to get decent photos.

I have noticed that it takes far less skill to get decent dance photos
with the K-1 than it did with the K100. And it was darn near impossible
with the K100 and the kit lens.



Are you sure this isn't just the technology having taken somewhat of a 
quantum leap of improvement over the past 10 years?


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Re: "You must have a nice camera!": Results vs. Tools (or Toys)

[Larry Colen]

Boris Liberman wrote:

Igor, I am yet to hear someone tell me that my camera is nice. Which,
I am telling you, will be met with a wide smile...

However, more than once I was told that I must be professional
photographer or that my pictures look professional. This is always met
with a strong denial. However, I oftentimes use: "Oh no, it is my gear
that is so good at making pictures" lame excuse that fascinatingly
works more often than not.

Modern age common culture is built upon progressive disregard of human
factor and hence reliance of gear/automatics/you name it.



This goes hand in hand with my ongoing rant about the UI on cameras, 
particularly the K-1, being optimized for  someone who wants an $1800 
point and shoot. As more people transfer the technical skill set from 
the photographer to the camera the quality of the camera becomes more 
critical for more people to get decent photos.


I have noticed that it takes far less skill to get decent dance photos 
with the K-1 than it did with the K100. And it was darn near impossible 
with the K100 and the kit lens.


--
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Re: "You must have a nice camera!": Results vs. Tools (or Toys)

[Larry Colen]

Igor PDML-StR wrote:


It is not an urban legend, I've heard it many times myself,
as John put it: "from well intentioned people who want to say something
complementary, but don't quite have a clue."

Yep, Dan, that's one of the variations I've heard.


Usually this situation happens in a setting where people are far away
from anywhat serious photography. One of typical situations was from the
dancers after they saw photos from a recent dance event. (And I suspect
Larry may have heard similar phrasing in a similar situation.)


Yeah, that's one of the contexts where I've heard it.

On the flip side when Nicole was racing at Daytona, we were waiting in 
the bar for a table at one of the chain restaurants. I had her K-r with 
one of the larger lenses on it, and was reviewing some of my photos from 
the day on the back screen.  The bartender looks at me and says 
something like "That's a big camera, are you compensating for 
something?". I turn to her and say, "No, I compensate for that with 
skill".  By her reaction, it was pretty obvious that wasn't the reply 
she was expecting.


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Re: "You must have a nice camera!": Results vs. Tools (or Toys)

[Alan C]

"Modern age common culture is built upon progressive disregard of human 
factor and hence reliance of gear/automatics/you name it".


Boris, you've hit the nail on the head. When I started out in analytical 
chemistry half a century ago, one needed very good bench skills to get 
acceptable results. Today, analysts don't even need to know much about 
chemistry - the "machines" do all the work. The golden age of chemistry has 
passed. Long live the "nice" cameras.


Alan C

-Original Message- 
From: Boris Liberman

Sent: Monday, July 11, 2016 6:23 AM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: "You must have a nice camera!": Results vs. Tools (or Toys)

Igor, I am yet to hear someone tell me that my camera is nice. Which,
I am telling you, will be met with a wide smile...

However, more than once I was told that I must be professional
photographer or that my pictures look professional. This is always met
with a strong denial. However, I oftentimes use: "Oh no, it is my gear
that is so good at making pictures" lame excuse that fascinatingly
works more often than not.

Modern age common culture is built upon progressive disregard of human
factor and hence reliance of gear/automatics/you name it.

Boris

On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 9:40 PM, Igor PDML-StR <pdml...@komkon.org> wrote:



Something just hit me, provoking this line of thoughts...

Preamble:
How many times have you heard (usually from people you don't know 
closely):

"You've got nice photos, you must have a nice camera!".
I (and probably some PDMLers) have always been ... maybe "somewhat
frustrated" is the right word here.
(And I understand that they are just trying to say something nice, without
realizing how awkward it sounds.)
At some point, I had been happy to find (a few years ago) a nice joking
response to that: "Your food is delicious, you must have a great stove (or
pot, skilet...)!"

Today, I realized that many people on PDML (myself included) frequently 
show

a photo, admiringly discussing the lens (or camera) it was taken with.
Ghm... Maybe I shouldn't be frustrated about people saying what appears to
be awkward...

And then I thought that while cooking, sometimes I enjoy a very good knife
or a very nice set of skillets we bought several years ago. ... or a
convenient tea-pot for brewing tea that we've found after long search for
what we needed. Or that electric tea kettle that has been chugging along 
for
15 years. ... and several other tools and items that are made well and 
work

well.

... But, I still feel awkward about "you must have a nice camera!"

Maybe because those knives and skillets don't make me a better cook, and 
my

camera doesn't make me a better photographer. They only help me being more
effective (and efficient) in what I can do.
So, I guess that awkward feeling comes from the subconsious realization
that "you must have a nice camera!" undervalues my skills in favor of the
equipment.

...
Igor



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Re: "You must have a nice camera!": Results vs. Tools (or Toys)

[Boris Liberman]

Igor, I am yet to hear someone tell me that my camera is nice. Which,
I am telling you, will be met with a wide smile...

However, more than once I was told that I must be professional
photographer or that my pictures look professional. This is always met
with a strong denial. However, I oftentimes use: "Oh no, it is my gear
that is so good at making pictures" lame excuse that fascinatingly
works more often than not.

Modern age common culture is built upon progressive disregard of human
factor and hence reliance of gear/automatics/you name it.

Boris

On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 9:40 PM, Igor PDML-StR  wrote:
>
>
> Something just hit me, provoking this line of thoughts...
>
> Preamble:
> How many times have you heard (usually from people you don't know closely):
> "You've got nice photos, you must have a nice camera!".
> I (and probably some PDMLers) have always been ... maybe "somewhat
> frustrated" is the right word here.
> (And I understand that they are just trying to say something nice, without
> realizing how awkward it sounds.)
> At some point, I had been happy to find (a few years ago) a nice joking
> response to that: "Your food is delicious, you must have a great stove (or
> pot, skilet...)!"
>
> Today, I realized that many people on PDML (myself included) frequently show
> a photo, admiringly discussing the lens (or camera) it was taken with.
> Ghm... Maybe I shouldn't be frustrated about people saying what appears to
> be awkward...
>
> And then I thought that while cooking, sometimes I enjoy a very good knife
> or a very nice set of skillets we bought several years ago. ... or a
> convenient tea-pot for brewing tea that we've found after long search for
> what we needed. Or that electric tea kettle that has been chugging along for
> 15 years. ... and several other tools and items that are made well and work
> well.
>
> ... But, I still feel awkward about "you must have a nice camera!"
>
> Maybe because those knives and skillets don't make me a better cook, and my
> camera doesn't make me a better photographer. They only help me being more
> effective (and efficient) in what I can do.
> So, I guess that awkward feeling comes from the subconsious realization
> that "you must have a nice camera!" undervalues my skills in favor of the
> equipment.
>
> ...
> Igor
>
>
>
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> follow the directions.



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Re: "You must have a nice camera!": Results vs. Tools (or Toys)

[Bob Sullivan]

Well Mark, I think you're the only one who hasn't heard it.

On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Mark Roberts
 wrote:
> Igor PDML-StR wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>Something just hit me, provoking this line of thoughts...
>>
>>Preamble:
>>How many times have you heard (usually from people you don't know
>>closely): "You've got nice photos, you must have a nice camera!".
>
> I have heard this precisely zero times. I think it's a photographer's
> Urban Legend.
>
> --
> Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia
> www.robertstech.com
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: "You must have a nice camera!": Results vs. Tools (or Toys)

[Mark C]

I hear that from time to time but usually in regards to photos that have 
an obvious technical challenge to them - like super macros, snow flake 
photos, etc. I think people realize that there is a technical challenge 
and translate that to requiring sophisticated equipment - so I never 
miss the point to explain to them that those photos were made with 
relatively ordinary gear.


Regarding knives and skillets - a not so popular former member of this 
list years ago remarked something to the effect of "If you enjoy a 
fantastic meal do you call the chef to your table and compliment him on 
the quality of his pots and pans?" That's a quote that often comes to my 
mind - both when visiting camera stores and when dining out!


Mark



On 7/10/2016 3:40 PM, Igor PDML-StR wrote:



Something just hit me, provoking this line of thoughts...

Preamble:
How many times have you heard (usually from people you don't know 
closely): "You've got nice photos, you must have a nice camera!".
I (and probably some PDMLers) have always been ... maybe "somewhat 
frustrated" is the right word here.
(And I understand that they are just trying to say something nice, 
without realizing how awkward it sounds.)
At some point, I had been happy to find (a few years ago) a nice 
joking response to that: "Your food is delicious, you must have a 
great stove (or pot, skilet...)!"


Today, I realized that many people on PDML (myself included) 
frequently show a photo, admiringly discussing the lens (or camera) it 
was taken with. Ghm... Maybe I shouldn't be frustrated about people 
saying what appears to be awkward...


And then I thought that while cooking, sometimes I enjoy a very good 
knife or a very nice set of skillets we bought several years ago. ... 
or a convenient tea-pot for brewing tea that we've found after long 
search for what we needed. Or that electric tea kettle that has been 
chugging along for 15 years. ... and several other tools and items 
that are made well and work well.


... But, I still feel awkward about "you must have a nice camera!"

Maybe because those knives and skillets don't make me a better cook, 
and my camera doesn't make me a better photographer. They only help me 
being more effective (and efficient) in what I can do.

So, I guess that awkward feeling comes from the subconsious realization
that "you must have a nice camera!" undervalues my skills in favor of 
the equipment.


...
Igor






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Re: "You must have a nice camera!": Results vs. Tools (or Toys)

[Mark Roberts]

Bob W-PDML wrote:

>On 10 Jul 2016, at 20:56, Mark Roberts  wrote:
>> 
>> Igor PDML-StR wrote:
>>> 
>>> Something just hit me, provoking this line of thoughts...
>>> 
>>> Preamble:
>>> How many times have you heard (usually from people you don't know 
>>> closely): "You've got nice photos, you must have a nice camera!".
>> 
>> I have heard this precisely zero times. I think it's a photographer's
>> Urban Legend.
>
>That must be because you don't have nice photos...

I like to think it's I have more educated friends ;-)
 
-- 
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www.robertstech.com





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RE: "You must have a nice camera!": Results vs. Tools (or Toys)

[John Coyle]

It was said to me just last week, after giving my daughter-in-law a DVD of
photos of her son playing soccer!
Incidentally, they were all taken with an *ist-D and the Pentax 28-105,
using sequential shooting and continuous autofocus, and only one (out of 30)
had failed to catch the right focus point.  Not bad for a 12-year old camera
of which it was said that it was useless for sports!


John in Brisbane



> Igor PDML-StR wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Something just hit me, provoking this line of thoughts...
>>
>> Preamble:
>> How many times have you heard (usually from people you don't know
>> closely): "You've got nice photos, you must have a nice camera!".
>
> I have heard this precisely zero times. I think it's a photographer's 
> Urban Legend.
>
>


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Re: "You must have a nice camera!": Results vs. Tools (or Toys)

[Paul]

I heard it as recently as last weekend...

-p


On 7/10/2016 2:55 PM, Mark Roberts wrote:

Igor PDML-StR wrote:



Something just hit me, provoking this line of thoughts...

Preamble:
How many times have you heard (usually from people you don't know
closely): "You've got nice photos, you must have a nice camera!".

I have heard this precisely zero times. I think it's a photographer's
Urban Legend.
  


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Re: "You must have a nice camera!": Results vs. Tools (or Toys)

[Steve Cottrell]

Never personally heard it.

Occasionally I get this quip when out filming: 'That camera looks very heavy'.

To which I reply: 'It is'.

Or: 'Make sure you get my best side' (Reply: 'That'll be your backside then?')

-- 


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Re: "You must have a nice camera!": Results vs. Tools (or Toys)

[Igor PDML-StR]

Har!

I wish I could see Mark's and Bob's faces when Bob said that!
[Big Grin]

Igor


 Bob W-PDML Sun, 10 Jul 2016 14:49:46 -0700 wrote:

On 10 Jul 2016, at 20:56, Mark Roberts  wrote:


Igor PDML-StR wrote:




Something just hit me, provoking this line of thoughts...

Preamble:
How many times have you heard (usually from people you don't know
closely): "You've got nice photos, you must have a nice camera!".


I have heard this precisely zero times. I think it's a photographer's
Urban Legend.




That must be because you don't have nice photos...

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Re: "You must have a nice camera!": Results vs. Tools (or Toys)

[Zos Xavius]

I think its because people take pictures with a cell phone and are
disappointed that its not the same quality as a DSLR. Also I would
take it as a compliment and a recognition of technical Skills as Bob
says. People don't know the differences. They see a good image and
think that a good camera must have been used because their experience
with equipment is not the same.

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Re: "You must have a nice camera!": Results vs. Tools (or Toys)

[Bob W-PDML]

On 10 Jul 2016, at 20:56, Mark Roberts  wrote:
> 
> Igor PDML-StR wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Something just hit me, provoking this line of thoughts...
>> 
>> Preamble:
>> How many times have you heard (usually from people you don't know 
>> closely): "You've got nice photos, you must have a nice camera!".
> 
> I have heard this precisely zero times. I think it's a photographer's
> Urban Legend.
> 

That must be because you don't have nice photos...

I've heard it several times. I don't interpret it as meaning the camera is 
responsible for the shots, but as an acknowledgement of the technical quality 
compared to run-of-the-mill stuff, and as an expectation that someone whose 
pictures are good would use good equipment. I'd expect a good enthusiastic 
amateur cook to have good knives and pans, even if they're not Mauviel.
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Re: "You must have a nice camera!": Results vs. Tools (or Toys)

[Igor PDML-StR]

It is not an urban legend, I've heard it many times myself,
as John put it: "from well intentioned people who want to say something
complementary, but don't quite have a clue."

Yep, Dan, that's one of the variations I've heard.


Usually this situation happens in a setting where people are far away from 
anywhat serious photography. One of typical situations was from the 
dancers after they saw photos from a recent dance event. (And I suspect 
Larry may have heard similar phrasing in a similar situation.)


And, I am thinking, Mark might be right: (I am rephrasing and expanding 
here) the proliferation of mediocre snapshots on FB & Instagram from cell 
phone cameras (and bombardment of ads promoting those) -- especially 
in the rather challenging light dance floor conditions -- might 
be contributing to the response of the people in question.
BTW, Paul and Mark, I think, one of the reasons you haven't heard that is 
that in my situation, - I was a participant of those non-photographic 
events (i.e. I was dancing, taking dance lessons, etc.). This creates a 
different reference point: When you come to an event primarily as a 
photographer, people expect you to have "professional gear" and produce 
good photos.
 To further support that idea of such "compartmentalization", - I can say 
that in a few cases where I was starting a social dance from taking 
photos, and then dancing, I had the reaction (from people who had not 
known me prior to that): "Wow, you also dance?! I thought you were only 
taking photos here!"


-

However, - my thoughts were not much about judging people who say that 
awkward phrase (I am not obsessed about it). (Afterall, I am sure, at some 
point, I said something awkward in the areas where I am rather ignorant.)

That part was just a "preamble".

Rather, - my focus was on a sudden realization that when I am (or 
someone else is) saying that a certain lens allowed to take this great 
photo, I am saying a very similar thing. And that, seemingly paradoxical 
situation, got me to pause and think. And then I got that paradox resolved 
as described in the original post.


And it is that "paradox" and the "resolution" of it that I wanted to share.

Thanks for everybody's response that helped me to (hopefully) clarify this.


Cheers,

Igor



 Daniel J. Matyola Sun, 10 Jul 2016 13:34:07 -0700 wrote:

On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 4:27 PM, steve harley wrote:



i've heard it in almost those exact words at least twice



On several occasions, I have heard a slightly more polite version of it:
"Great Photo!  What kind of camera do you have?"



On Sun, 10 Jul 2016, Igor PDML-StR wrote:




Something just hit me, provoking this line of thoughts...

Preamble:
How many times have you heard (usually from people you don't know closely): 
"You've got nice photos, you must have a nice camera!".
I (and probably some PDMLers) have always been ... maybe "somewhat 
frustrated" is the right word here.
(And I understand that they are just trying to say something nice, without 
realizing how awkward it sounds.)
At some point, I had been happy to find (a few years ago) a nice joking 
response to that: "Your food is delicious, you must have a great stove (or 
pot, skilet...)!"


Today, I realized that many people on PDML (myself included) frequently show 
a photo, admiringly discussing the lens (or camera) it was taken with. Ghm... 
Maybe I shouldn't be frustrated about people saying what appears to be 
awkward...


And then I thought that while cooking, sometimes I enjoy a very good knife or 
a very nice set of skillets we bought several years ago. ... or a convenient 
tea-pot for brewing tea that we've found after long search for what we 
needed. Or that electric tea kettle that has been chugging along for 15 
years. ... and several other tools and items that are made well and work 
well.


... But, I still feel awkward about "you must have a nice camera!"

Maybe because those knives and skillets don't make me a better cook, and my 
camera doesn't make me a better photographer. They only help me being more 
effective (and efficient) in what I can do.

So, I guess that awkward feeling comes from the subconsious realization
that "you must have a nice camera!" undervalues my skills in favor of the 
equipment.


...
Igor





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Re: "You must have a nice camera!": Results vs. Tools (or Toys)

[Daniel J. Matyola]

On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 4:31 PM, John  wrote:

> I think the best response in
> that case is to just say "Thank you", and let it slide.
>

Sage Advice!

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
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Re: "You must have a nice camera!": Results vs. Tools (or Toys)

[Daniel J. Matyola]

On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 4:27 PM, steve harley  wrote:

> i've heard it in almost those exact words at least twice


On several occasions, I have heard a slightly more polite version of it:
"Great Photo!  What kind of camera do you have?"

It really means the some thing.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
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Re: "You must have a nice camera!": Results vs. Tools (or Toys)

[John]

On 7/10/2016 3:55 PM, Mark Roberts wrote:

Igor PDML-StR wrote:




Something just hit me, provoking this line of thoughts...

Preamble:
How many times have you heard (usually from people you don't know
closely): "You've got nice photos, you must have a nice camera!".


I have heard this precisely zero times. I think it's a photographer's
Urban Legend.




I've heard it, from well intentioned people who want to say something
complementary, but don't quite have a clue. I think the best response in
that case is to just say "Thank you", and let it slide.

More recently, since it's become kind of a meme, it's usually been from
another photographer getting in a sly dig. In which case I might respond
"Yes, and I took the time to learn how to use it."


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Religion - Answers we must never question.

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Re: "You must have a nice camera!": Results vs. Tools (or Toys)

[steve harley]

On 2016-07-10 13:55 , Mark Roberts wrote:

Igor PDML-StR wrote:

How many times have you heard (usually from people you don't know
closely): "You've got nice photos, you must have a nice camera!".


I have heard this precisely zero times. I think it's a photographer's
Urban Legend.


i've heard it in almost those exact words at least twice


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Re: "You must have a nice camera!": Results vs. Tools (or Toys)

[Mark Roberts]

Paul Stenquist wrote:

>> On Jul 10, 2016, at 3:55 PM, Mark Roberts  wrote:
>> 
>> Igor PDML-StR wrote:
>>> 
>>> Something just hit me, provoking this line of thoughts...
>>> 
>>> Preamble:
>>> How many times have you heard (usually from people you don't know 
>>> closely): "You've got nice photos, you must have a nice camera!".
>> 
>> I have heard this precisely zero times. I think it's a photographer's
>> Urban Legend.
>> 
>It sounds familiar of course, but I’m not sure if I’ve actually heard it. I 
>think it’s been implied in comments regarding my work. But I don’t obsess 
>about it. Doesn’t really matter.

I think the proliferation of smartphone cameras is making it
increasingly less likely for people to think this way. As everyone
takes more photos they learn just how difficult it is to take really
good ones, regardless of equipment. In fact, Apple's "Taken with an
iPhone" ad campaign may be having the opposite effect of that
intended: Instead of thinking "Gosh, I can take pictures that good"
people think "I've seen tons of my friends' photos taken with that
phone and none of them are anywhere near as good. Maybe photography's
more about the person holding the camera than it is about the camera
itself".
 
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Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia
www.robertstech.com





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Re: "You must have a nice camera!": Results vs. Tools (or Toys)

[Paul Stenquist]

It sounds familiar of course, but I’m not sure if I’ve actually heard it. I 
think it’s been implied in comments regarding my work. But I don’t obsess about 
it. Doesn’t really matter.

Paul
> On Jul 10, 2016, at 3:55 PM, Mark Roberts  wrote:
> 
> Igor PDML-StR wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Something just hit me, provoking this line of thoughts...
>> 
>> Preamble:
>> How many times have you heard (usually from people you don't know 
>> closely): "You've got nice photos, you must have a nice camera!".
> 
> I have heard this precisely zero times. I think it's a photographer's
> Urban Legend.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia
> www.robertstech.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: "You must have a nice camera!": Results vs. Tools (or Toys)

[Mark Roberts]

Igor PDML-StR wrote:

>
>
>Something just hit me, provoking this line of thoughts...
>
>Preamble:
>How many times have you heard (usually from people you don't know 
>closely): "You've got nice photos, you must have a nice camera!".

I have heard this precisely zero times. I think it's a photographer's
Urban Legend.
 
-- 
Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia
www.robertstech.com





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"You must have a nice camera!": Results vs. Tools (or Toys)

[Igor PDML-StR]

Something just hit me, provoking this line of thoughts...

Preamble:
How many times have you heard (usually from people you don't know 
closely): "You've got nice photos, you must have a nice camera!".
I (and probably some PDMLers) have always been ... maybe 
"somewhat frustrated" is the right word here.
(And I understand that they are just trying to say something nice, without 
realizing how awkward it sounds.)
At some point, I had been happy to find (a few years ago) a nice joking 
response to that: "Your food is delicious, you must have a great stove (or pot, 
skilet...)!"


Today, I realized that many people on PDML (myself included) frequently 
show a photo, admiringly discussing the lens (or camera) it was taken 
with. Ghm... Maybe I shouldn't be frustrated about people saying what 
appears to be awkward...


And then I thought that while cooking, sometimes I enjoy a very good knife 
or a very nice set of skillets we bought several years ago. ... or a 
convenient tea-pot for brewing tea that we've found after long search for 
what we needed. Or that electric tea kettle that has been chugging along 
for 15 years. ... and several other tools and items that are made well 
and work well.


... But, I still feel awkward about "you must have a nice camera!"

Maybe because those knives and skillets don't make me a better cook, and 
my camera doesn't make me a better photographer. They only help me being 
more effective (and efficient) in what I can do.

So, I guess that awkward feeling comes from the subconsious realization
that "you must have a nice camera!" undervalues my skills in favor of the 
equipment.


...
Igor



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