Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
From: Bill anotherdrunken...@gmail.com On 19/07/2013 2:01 PM, Tom C wrote: I also agree that the legacy lens advantage is pretty much non-existent. It's interesting that you should say that, and kind of ironic in a way. The reason why legacy lenses are not an advantage is because they are less convenient to use (manual focus, green button kludge, etc), and yet people happily go out and buy adapters to put legacy lenses onto their cameras from other brands. Look at the number of adapters you can get to put legacy glass onto 4/3 cameras. I suspect that every brand ever made can now be mounted to a 4/3 camera via an adapter. I bought an adapter to allow mounting K-mount glass onto my Q, and, being the not so bright person that I am, did exactly the same thing when I bought my Fuji. And you know what? It's a pain in the ass. Sure, the thing mounts, and you can take a picture with it if you want to go to the effort, but why bother? I could almost see it if you had a bunch of Canon FD lenses around, as it would be a way to put them to use again, since Canon decided their user base was a liability in the mid 1980s and abandoned them, but really, if you have an ability to mount the lens to a camera that it is compatible with, just mount it to that camera. Putting an A series lens onto my K5 means I lose a bit of functionality, mounting it onto my Fuji or my Q takes me from functionality loss to wanting to slash my wrists to make the misery go away. Even using an older non A series lens on the K5 is easier than on the Fuji or Q. I would say that as long as there is a market for adapters to mix and match brands of lenses onto other makers' cameras, the advantage of legacy lenses exists to a reasonable extent, though it won't be apparent to a new user who just bought his first DSLR and kit lens. bill Irony is one of the few things I'm good at Bill. My statement was made largely from the narrow perspective that Pentax legacy lens support on new Pentax bodies is not an advantage for Pentax in that basically all DSLR mfrs. can justifiably claim the same. I almost never used my MF Pentax lenses on my AF bodies. The same can be true of the Sony NEX-7 (except I use the FA 100/2.8 macro on it occasionally as I don't want to spend the money for a macro lens, and the Sony e-mount offering is ridiculously short... 30mm).. I suppose that's largely because of the convenience of AF, and the other reasons you mention. That said, I bought a Nikon 50mm AIS something or other, that will will work on both the D800E and the NEX-7 via adapter. If one shoots MF, the 'focus feel' of an MF lens is generally better and the aperture ring is nice. I suppose the advantage of using legacy glass is debatable but it's largely a matter of: 1. If you already have the lens 2. If you can acquire a lens far cheaper than otherwise 3. One can mix/match mfrs. As you allude to, the above are advantages only if one feels they don't outweigh the inherent disadvantages or possibly if one largely shoots in manual focus mode. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Eyebrow clarity: handheld vs tripod (was Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?)
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Bruce Walker wrote: On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Bruce Walker wrote: Zos, eyebrows are my litmus test for system sharpness. Get a well-lit headshot of somebody and examine their eyebrows. You should clearly see the individual hairs. Any time I handhold to get such a shot the eyebrows are invariably a gaussian smear. You cannot do clean retouching of such images. I can show you a 100% crop of my model's eyebrows from the last beauty shots I took using a tripod with my K20D and DA* 50-135. Clear, sharp, detailed. I defy you to get that clarity handheld, no matter the shutter speed. Let's make sure we're testing the same thing. What percent of frame should the person's head be? Any other requirements? You want this to be scientific? This is The Internet. :-) Not necessarily scientific, but at least evidence-based. ;-) Well, the shot I have In Support of Tripod Use is this recent one: http://flic.kr/p/f2Kebj Obviously head fills the frame, landscape. Camera was about 8-9 feet away, 135mm at F8.0, ISO 200. Here's a 100% crop of her right eyebrow and eyelashes: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2254722/PDML/BMW_8026-crop.tif It's an 8-bit TIFF, exported from the original RAW shot in Lightroom 4. Lr's default zeroed settings except WB: flash and the default RAW sharpening of 25. This is a sucky shot, but hopefully enough to disprove your point. Nikon P7100 (10MP), mirror selfie, arm braced on door frame, 61mm (35mm/e), ISO 100, 1/25s. Converted from RAW in Preview.app (essentially no editing). http://rule6.info/photos/critique/eyebrow/eyebrow_headshot.jpg http://rule6.info/photos/critique/eyebrow/eyebrow.tiff A better and/or newer camera with a higher shutter speed and better lighting would certainly improve things, as would tighter composition. -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Eyebrow clarity: handheld vs tripod (was Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?)
On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 2:32 PM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Bruce Walker wrote: On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Bruce Walker wrote: Zos, eyebrows are my litmus test for system sharpness. Get a well-lit headshot of somebody and examine their eyebrows. You should clearly see the individual hairs. Any time I handhold to get such a shot the eyebrows are invariably a gaussian smear. You cannot do clean retouching of such images. I can show you a 100% crop of my model's eyebrows from the last beauty shots I took using a tripod with my K20D and DA* 50-135. Clear, sharp, detailed. I defy you to get that clarity handheld, no matter the shutter speed. Let's make sure we're testing the same thing. What percent of frame should the person's head be? Any other requirements? You want this to be scientific? This is The Internet. :-) Not necessarily scientific, but at least evidence-based. ;-) Well, the shot I have In Support of Tripod Use is this recent one: http://flic.kr/p/f2Kebj Obviously head fills the frame, landscape. Camera was about 8-9 feet away, 135mm at F8.0, ISO 200. Here's a 100% crop of her right eyebrow and eyelashes: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2254722/PDML/BMW_8026-crop.tif It's an 8-bit TIFF, exported from the original RAW shot in Lightroom 4. Lr's default zeroed settings except WB: flash and the default RAW sharpening of 25. This is a sucky shot, but hopefully enough to disprove your point. Nikon P7100 (10MP), mirror selfie, arm braced on door frame, 61mm (35mm/e), ISO 100, 1/25s. Converted from RAW in Preview.app (essentially no editing). http://rule6.info/photos/critique/eyebrow/eyebrow_headshot.jpg http://rule6.info/photos/critique/eyebrow/eyebrow.tiff A better and/or newer camera with a higher shutter speed and better lighting would certainly improve things, as would tighter composition. Yes, that's really nice and sharp brows, but you cheated there. By bracing yourself on the door you've improvised a tripod with two legs and a doorframe. ;-) Handheld is handheld ... -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Eyebrow clarity: handheld vs tripod (was Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?)
On Sun, Jul 21, 2013, Bruce Walker wrote: On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 2:32 PM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Bruce Walker wrote: On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Bruce Walker wrote: Zos, eyebrows are my litmus test for system sharpness. Get a well-lit headshot of somebody and examine their eyebrows. You should clearly see the individual hairs. Any time I handhold to get such a shot the eyebrows are invariably a gaussian smear. You cannot do clean retouching of such images. I can show you a 100% crop of my model's eyebrows from the last beauty shots I took using a tripod with my K20D and DA* 50-135. Clear, sharp, detailed. I defy you to get that clarity handheld, no matter the shutter speed. Let's make sure we're testing the same thing. What percent of frame should the person's head be? Any other requirements? You want this to be scientific? This is The Internet. :-) Not necessarily scientific, but at least evidence-based. ;-) Well, the shot I have In Support of Tripod Use is this recent one: http://flic.kr/p/f2Kebj Obviously head fills the frame, landscape. Camera was about 8-9 feet away, 135mm at F8.0, ISO 200. Here's a 100% crop of her right eyebrow and eyelashes: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2254722/PDML/BMW_8026-crop.tif It's an 8-bit TIFF, exported from the original RAW shot in Lightroom 4. Lr's default zeroed settings except WB: flash and the default RAW sharpening of 25. This is a sucky shot, but hopefully enough to disprove your point. Nikon P7100 (10MP), mirror selfie, arm braced on door frame, 61mm (35mm/e), ISO 100, 1/25s. Converted from RAW in Preview.app (essentially no editing). http://rule6.info/photos/critique/eyebrow/eyebrow_headshot.jpg http://rule6.info/photos/critique/eyebrow/eyebrow.tiff A better and/or newer camera with a higher shutter speed and better lighting would certainly improve things, as would tighter composition. Yes, that's really nice and sharp brows, but you cheated there. By bracing yourself on the door you've improvised a tripod with two legs and a doorframe. ;-) Handheld is handheld ... Personally, I think that holding off-center one-handed at 1/25 counters the arm brace, but anyway: http://rule6.info/photos/critique/eyebrow/eyebrow2_headshot.jpg http://rule6.info/photos/critique/eyebrow/eyebrow2.tiff Now it's the Canon G1X (14MP, so more comparable with your K20D), 1/100, 112mm (35mm/e), shot two-handed with the LCD (zero body bracing). Person I'm shooting doesn't have eyebrows, so look at the hair. ;-) The JPG is cropped to portrait from landscape (mainly to save bandwidth). The K-5 at 1/500 and a nice lens ought to do really well... To be clear, I'm not claiming that a tripod isn't better, just that one can get sharp shots handheld even with moderately low shutter speeds. (Maybe you can't, though I'd bet that you could with 1/2000, that freezes most things. I really appreciated 1/5000 on the cruise.) -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Eyebrow clarity: handheld vs tripod (was Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?)
I thought that you made your point with the last post, but when I click on the new links I get a Forbidden error page, not even the 403 error number... On 7/21/2013 4:18 PM, Aahz Maruch wrote: On Sun, Jul 21, 2013, Bruce Walker wrote: On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 2:32 PM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Bruce Walker wrote: On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Bruce Walker wrote: Zos, eyebrows are my litmus test for system sharpness. Get a well-lit headshot of somebody and examine their eyebrows. You should clearly see the individual hairs. Any time I handhold to get such a shot the eyebrows are invariably a gaussian smear. You cannot do clean retouching of such images. I can show you a 100% crop of my model's eyebrows from the last beauty shots I took using a tripod with my K20D and DA* 50-135. Clear, sharp, detailed. I defy you to get that clarity handheld, no matter the shutter speed. Let's make sure we're testing the same thing. What percent of frame should the person's head be? Any other requirements? You want this to be scientific? This is The Internet. :-) Not necessarily scientific, but at least evidence-based. ;-) Well, the shot I have In Support of Tripod Use is this recent one: http://flic.kr/p/f2Kebj Obviously head fills the frame, landscape. Camera was about 8-9 feet away, 135mm at F8.0, ISO 200. Here's a 100% crop of her right eyebrow and eyelashes: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2254722/PDML/BMW_8026-crop.tif It's an 8-bit TIFF, exported from the original RAW shot in Lightroom 4. Lr's default zeroed settings except WB: flash and the default RAW sharpening of 25. This is a sucky shot, but hopefully enough to disprove your point. Nikon P7100 (10MP), mirror selfie, arm braced on door frame, 61mm (35mm/e), ISO 100, 1/25s. Converted from RAW in Preview.app (essentially no editing). http://rule6.info/photos/critique/eyebrow/eyebrow_headshot.jpg http://rule6.info/photos/critique/eyebrow/eyebrow.tiff A better and/or newer camera with a higher shutter speed and better lighting would certainly improve things, as would tighter composition. Yes, that's really nice and sharp brows, but you cheated there. By bracing yourself on the door you've improvised a tripod with two legs and a doorframe. ;-) Handheld is handheld ... Personally, I think that holding off-center one-handed at 1/25 counters the arm brace, but anyway: http://rule6.info/photos/critique/eyebrow/eyebrow2_headshot.jpg http://rule6.info/photos/critique/eyebrow/eyebrow2.tiff Now it's the Canon G1X (14MP, so more comparable with your K20D), 1/100, 112mm (35mm/e), shot two-handed with the LCD (zero body bracing). Person I'm shooting doesn't have eyebrows, so look at the hair. ;-) The JPG is cropped to portrait from landscape (mainly to save bandwidth). The K-5 at 1/500 and a nice lens ought to do really well... To be clear, I'm not claiming that a tripod isn't better, just that one can get sharp shots handheld even with moderately low shutter speeds. (Maybe you can't, though I'd bet that you could with 1/2000, that freezes most things. I really appreciated 1/5000 on the cruise.) -- There are two kinds of computer users those who've experienced a hard drive failure, and those that will. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Eyebrow clarity: handheld vs tripod (was Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?)
On Sun, Jul 21, 2013, P.J. Alling wrote: I thought that you made your point with the last post, but when I click on the new links I get a Forbidden error page, not even the 403 error number... Sorry about that, fixed now. I thought I made my point, too, but Bruce didn't, so I figured I might as well give it another go. On 7/21/2013 4:18 PM, Aahz Maruch wrote: On Sun, Jul 21, 2013, Bruce Walker wrote: On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 2:32 PM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Bruce Walker wrote: On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Bruce Walker wrote: Zos, eyebrows are my litmus test for system sharpness. Get a well-lit headshot of somebody and examine their eyebrows. You should clearly see the individual hairs. Any time I handhold to get such a shot the eyebrows are invariably a gaussian smear. You cannot do clean retouching of such images. I can show you a 100% crop of my model's eyebrows from the last beauty shots I took using a tripod with my K20D and DA* 50-135. Clear, sharp, detailed. I defy you to get that clarity handheld, no matter the shutter speed. Let's make sure we're testing the same thing. What percent of frame should the person's head be? Any other requirements? You want this to be scientific? This is The Internet. :-) Not necessarily scientific, but at least evidence-based. ;-) Well, the shot I have In Support of Tripod Use is this recent one: http://flic.kr/p/f2Kebj Obviously head fills the frame, landscape. Camera was about 8-9 feet away, 135mm at F8.0, ISO 200. Here's a 100% crop of her right eyebrow and eyelashes: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2254722/PDML/BMW_8026-crop.tif It's an 8-bit TIFF, exported from the original RAW shot in Lightroom 4. Lr's default zeroed settings except WB: flash and the default RAW sharpening of 25. This is a sucky shot, but hopefully enough to disprove your point. Nikon P7100 (10MP), mirror selfie, arm braced on door frame, 61mm (35mm/e), ISO 100, 1/25s. Converted from RAW in Preview.app (essentially no editing). http://rule6.info/photos/critique/eyebrow/eyebrow_headshot.jpg http://rule6.info/photos/critique/eyebrow/eyebrow.tiff A better and/or newer camera with a higher shutter speed and better lighting would certainly improve things, as would tighter composition. Yes, that's really nice and sharp brows, but you cheated there. By bracing yourself on the door you've improvised a tripod with two legs and a doorframe. ;-) Handheld is handheld ... Personally, I think that holding off-center one-handed at 1/25 counters the arm brace, but anyway: http://rule6.info/photos/critique/eyebrow/eyebrow2_headshot.jpg http://rule6.info/photos/critique/eyebrow/eyebrow2.tiff Now it's the Canon G1X (14MP, so more comparable with your K20D), 1/100, 112mm (35mm/e), shot two-handed with the LCD (zero body bracing). Person I'm shooting doesn't have eyebrows, so look at the hair. ;-) The JPG is cropped to portrait from landscape (mainly to save bandwidth). The K-5 at 1/500 and a nice lens ought to do really well... To be clear, I'm not claiming that a tripod isn't better, just that one can get sharp shots handheld even with moderately low shutter speeds. (Maybe you can't, though I'd bet that you could with 1/2000, that freezes most things. I really appreciated 1/5000 on the cruise.) -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
Price is not the deciding factor in my continuing to buy Pentax. It is my history with the brand, my lens cabinet(s), my familiarity (for the most part) with the operation and handling of the various bodies and lenses. If I want (need?) a piece of gear and I can afford it at the time, I get it. If I can't, I don't. I'm retired. Shoot every day in one form or another. Worry about what my photo-dumb sisters will do with all this gear when I die. Ada would just throw it out. Lucy would have it appraised, and be disappointed in the total price. Hung a Hummingbird Feeder off the deck last weekend, so spending a lot of time finding out how to capture the tiny beasties with pixels. They are pretty smart little creatures. If I'm inside, they come up to the window and shoot looks from several angles to see if I'm hunting them, and perhaps to ascertain where the dogs are. Ot they could be preening in their reflection. chp, chp. On Jul 17, 2013, at 07:40 , Tom C wrote: You may not get an MRI on every patient with a tummyache, and that's a good thing. However having the MRI machine available is good, n'est-ce pas? Having more advanced technology in the future than whatever is current state of the art no doubt will have it's benefits also. A market must exist for something better or companies will not be incentivized to produce something better. Needs vs. desires vs. what becomes the accepted norm or state of the art, are three different things. It's no one's responsibility to purchase a company's products. I'm not suggesting you or anyone else fork over your hard earned income to any company for products you don't want. Pentax is in an unenviable spot, being widely perceived as a bargain brand. That's of course good for those that either can't or don't wish to spend more money. It's not so good for Pentax (Ricoh). When a brands customer base consists largely of people who want a lot for a little, it's like tying the corporate hands behind the corporate back. Having capital to invest in developing new products is achieved largely by selling current products at a decent margin. Notice the trend of so many to say what they have is 'good enough'? Pentax loses. Notice the trend of so many to wait a year or more until there's massive price cuts on the newest model Pentax camera? Pentax loses. Notice the trend of so many to purchase used gear as opposed to new? Pentax loses. Then there's those that put there money elsewhere because they're not getting what they want from Pentax. Pentax loses. There's nothing wrong with any of those actions and all are justifiable. Still - Pentax loses. So collectively, many of those people that love their Pentax gear because of the perceived value are the same people who, in essence, are limiting the profits and therefore the ability to produce meaningful new and better products. It's a gradual slow downwards spiral. End. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
On 19/07/2013 2:01 PM, Tom C wrote: I also agree that the legacy lens advantage is pretty much non-existent. It's interesting that you should say that, and kind of ironic in a way. The reason why legacy lenses are not an advantage is because they are less convenient to use (manual focus, green button kludge, etc), and yet people happily go out and buy adapters to put legacy lenses onto their cameras from other brands. Look at the number of adapters you can get to put legacy glass onto 4/3 cameras. I suspect that every brand ever made can now be mounted to a 4/3 camera via an adapter. I bought an adapter to allow mounting K-mount glass onto my Q, and, being the not so bright person that I am, did exactly the same thing when I bought my Fuji. And you know what? It's a pain in the ass. Sure, the thing mounts, and you can take a picture with it if you want to go to the effort, but why bother? I could almost see it if you had a bunch of Canon FD lenses around, as it would be a way to put them to use again, since Canon decided their user base was a liability in the mid 1980s and abandoned them, but really, if you have an ability to mount the lens to a camera that it is compatible with, just mount it to that camera. Putting an A series lens onto my K5 means I lose a bit of functionality, mounting it onto my Fuji or my Q takes me from functionality loss to wanting to slash my wrists to make the misery go away. Even using an older non A series lens on the K5 is easier than on the Fuji or Q. I would say that as long as there is a market for adapters to mix and match brands of lenses onto other makers' cameras, the advantage of legacy lenses exists to a reasonable extent, though it won't be apparent to a new user who just bought his first DSLR and kit lens. bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
Which is the argument for the thing that shall not be mentioned. It would make using K and M glass about as easy to use as A glass is now. Which is to say, no more difficult that it was to use when those lenses were first manufactured. I remember when I bought my MX, my second or third accessory was a genuine M42 to K adapter. I think I used my M42 mount lenses on that camera a few times, but mostly I used them on the Spotmatic until in a fit of simplification frenzy I sold it, cheaply, just to get rid of it. On 7/20/2013 1:38 PM, Bill wrote: On 19/07/2013 2:01 PM, Tom C wrote: I also agree that the legacy lens advantage is pretty much non-existent. It's interesting that you should say that, and kind of ironic in a way. The reason why legacy lenses are not an advantage is because they are less convenient to use (manual focus, green button kludge, etc), and yet people happily go out and buy adapters to put legacy lenses onto their cameras from other brands. Look at the number of adapters you can get to put legacy glass onto 4/3 cameras. I suspect that every brand ever made can now be mounted to a 4/3 camera via an adapter. I bought an adapter to allow mounting K-mount glass onto my Q, and, being the not so bright person that I am, did exactly the same thing when I bought my Fuji. And you know what? It's a pain in the ass. Sure, the thing mounts, and you can take a picture with it if you want to go to the effort, but why bother? I could almost see it if you had a bunch of Canon FD lenses around, as it would be a way to put them to use again, since Canon decided their user base was a liability in the mid 1980s and abandoned them, but really, if you have an ability to mount the lens to a camera that it is compatible with, just mount it to that camera. Putting an A series lens onto my K5 means I lose a bit of functionality, mounting it onto my Fuji or my Q takes me from functionality loss to wanting to slash my wrists to make the misery go away. Even using an older non A series lens on the K5 is easier than on the Fuji or Q. I would say that as long as there is a market for adapters to mix and match brands of lenses onto other makers' cameras, the advantage of legacy lenses exists to a reasonable extent, though it won't be apparent to a new user who just bought his first DSLR and kit lens. bill -- There are two kinds of computer users those who've experienced a hard drive failure, and those that will. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
I agree. I think an uncrippled mount would be the best thing in the world for a full frame camera. Its the only thing I asked for really. Even nikon supports at least AI lenses and you can convert everything previous to AI. I realize that only their pro oriented cameras are uncrippled, but still they at least provide backwards compatibility. An uncrippled mount wouldn't cost that much to produce I don't think. It does add to the complexity. So when's that full frame coming out again? ;) If I had to adapt glass and lost the ability to stop down automatically, it would indeed suck pretty hard, but wouldn't be all that different from using takumars on DSLRs. For a lot of what I shoot, it wouldn't matter. Just another thing to slow me down. On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 4:25 PM, P.J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote: Which is the argument for the thing that shall not be mentioned. It would make using K and M glass about as easy to use as A glass is now. Which is to say, no more difficult that it was to use when those lenses were first manufactured. I remember when I bought my MX, my second or third accessory was a genuine M42 to K adapter. I think I used my M42 mount lenses on that camera a few times, but mostly I used them on the Spotmatic until in a fit of simplification frenzy I sold it, cheaply, just to get rid of it. On 7/20/2013 1:38 PM, Bill wrote: On 19/07/2013 2:01 PM, Tom C wrote: I also agree that the legacy lens advantage is pretty much non-existent. It's interesting that you should say that, and kind of ironic in a way. The reason why legacy lenses are not an advantage is because they are less convenient to use (manual focus, green button kludge, etc), and yet people happily go out and buy adapters to put legacy lenses onto their cameras from other brands. Look at the number of adapters you can get to put legacy glass onto 4/3 cameras. I suspect that every brand ever made can now be mounted to a 4/3 camera via an adapter. I bought an adapter to allow mounting K-mount glass onto my Q, and, being the not so bright person that I am, did exactly the same thing when I bought my Fuji. And you know what? It's a pain in the ass. Sure, the thing mounts, and you can take a picture with it if you want to go to the effort, but why bother? I could almost see it if you had a bunch of Canon FD lenses around, as it would be a way to put them to use again, since Canon decided their user base was a liability in the mid 1980s and abandoned them, but really, if you have an ability to mount the lens to a camera that it is compatible with, just mount it to that camera. Putting an A series lens onto my K5 means I lose a bit of functionality, mounting it onto my Fuji or my Q takes me from functionality loss to wanting to slash my wrists to make the misery go away. Even using an older non A series lens on the K5 is easier than on the Fuji or Q. I would say that as long as there is a market for adapters to mix and match brands of lenses onto other makers' cameras, the advantage of legacy lenses exists to a reasonable extent, though it won't be apparent to a new user who just bought his first DSLR and kit lens. bill -- There are two kinds of computer users those who've experienced a hard drive failure, and those that will. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
Notice the trend of so many to say what they have is 'good enough'? Pentax loses. Notice the trend of so many to wait a year or more until there's massive price cuts on the newest model Pentax camera? Pentax loses. Notice the trend of so many to purchase used gear as opposed to new? Pentax loses. Then there's those that put there money elsewhere because they're not getting what they want from Pentax. Pentax loses. There's nothing wrong with any of those actions and all are justifiable. Still - Pentax loses. IMO - every other camera manufacturer has to deal with those exact same issues, and to be honest I don't think that they are limiting factors. I just checked on ebay - there are over twice as many used Nikon and Canon lenses there then Pentax. I didn't check bodies but I assume there are a lot more used DSLR's of those brands simply because there has been a more active upgrade path. The more people upgrade the more used bodies there are for the bargain hunters. And Pentax (sadly) does not have to deal with the problem of Sigma, Tamron, and TOkina making lenses that compete with them - though I wish Sigma would kick out a few of their macro lenses in the K Mount. A robust used market is the sign of a healthy brand, IMO. But a brand that tries to live off its used market is in trouble. Back in the 90's the buzzword with Pentax was that there was this huge vast reserve of used lenses and since there was great backwards compatibility with Pentax you could tap into those old lenses. It was a bargain hunter's brand. It was a great argument at the time given that Canon and Nikon had respectively scrapped or significantly modified their lens mount a few years earlier. And even though I supect that at this very moment some dim-witted blogger cum photo gear reviewer is repeating that line about Pentax, Pentax's legacy glass advantage has largely faded. Canon and Nikon have a couple decades of used gear compatible with their systems now, and their used market is better than Pentax's, and if you are a bargain hunter you would be better off trolling in their waters and not Pentax's. I don't know how the Pentax brand will be resurrected but I keep hoping that Ricoh has a plan... Mark I meant to respond earlier Mark. I agree that every camera mfr. has to cope with somewhat the same issues, in regard to a certain percentage of potential customers waiting for price drops... or potential customers buying used instead of new. Without checking my figures, I'm sure I'm not wrong in stating that N/C have 70% of the DSLR market. Pentax has at best 5%, and I suspect less. Unfortunately it's a tough uphill climb... and even I, when purchasing the PZ-1p, looked at upgrade paths. I went with Pentax because I simply was too cheap to spend an additional $800 for a Nikon 8008s with an add-on flash. I thought I'd use my manual focus lenses on it. That was next to never. I thought I'd follow an upgrade path to a 6x7. I did, at the same time as I bought the *ist D. That was foolish... :) I also agree that the legacy lens advantage is pretty much non-existent. Tom C -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Eyebrow clarity: handheld vs tripod (was Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?)
Viewing the full size crop at 72 DPI on my Ancient Hitachi SuperScan Elite 751 is the reason I don't think I need more more megapixels or a bigger sensor at this time, though I do need a good tripod. On 7/16/2013 4:22 PM, Bruce Walker wrote: On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Bruce Walker wrote: Zos, eyebrows are my litmus test for system sharpness. Get a well-lit headshot of somebody and examine their eyebrows. You should clearly see the individual hairs. Any time I handhold to get such a shot the eyebrows are invariably a gaussian smear. You cannot do clean retouching of such images. I can show you a 100% crop of my model's eyebrows from the last beauty shots I took using a tripod with my K20D and DA* 50-135. Clear, sharp, detailed. I defy you to get that clarity handheld, no matter the shutter speed. Let's make sure we're testing the same thing. What percent of frame should the person's head be? Any other requirements? You want this to be scientific? This is The Internet. :-) Well, the shot I have In Support of Tripod Use is this recent one: http://flic.kr/p/f2Kebj Obviously head fills the frame, landscape. Camera was about 8-9 feet away, 135mm at F8.0, ISO 200. Probably not the best tripod for the task, the ball head is a bit light for the DA* 50-135 + K20D: Manfrotto 190XproB, 486RC2 head. Here's a 100% crop of her right eyebrow and eyelashes: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2254722/PDML/BMW_8026-crop.tif It's an 8-bit TIFF, exported from the original RAW shot in Lightroom 4. Lr's default zeroed settings except WB: flash and the default RAW sharpening of 25. -- -bmw -- There are two kinds of computer users those who've experienced a hard drive failure, and those that will. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Eyebrow clarity: handheld vs tripod (was Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?)
Plus, the brick wall feels so good once you stop beating your head against it. On 7/16/2013 5:06 PM, Zos Xavius wrote: I think a brick wall would be a better subject. Objections? The subject shouldn't matter as long as it is sharp. A static object makes for the best test IMO. On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 5:03 PM, John johnsess...@yahoo.com wrote: On 7/16/2013 3:43 PM, Aahz Maruch wrote: On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Bruce Walker wrote: Zos, eyebrows are my litmus test for system sharpness. Get a well-lit headshot of somebody and examine their eyebrows. You should clearly see the individual hairs. Any time I handhold to get such a shot the eyebrows are invariably a gaussian smear. You cannot do clean retouching of such images. I can show you a 100% crop of my model's eyebrows from the last beauty shots I took using a tripod with my K20D and DA* 50-135. Clear, sharp, detailed. I defy you to get that clarity handheld, no matter the shutter speed. Let's make sure we're testing the same thing. What percent of frame should the person's head be? Any other requirements? Unless you're shooting for CSI, you want the person to have all of their head. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
Sure there's a perfect camera. It's just no one is manufacturing it yet. On 7/16/2013 7:04 PM, Larry Colen wrote: On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 03:26:57PM -0700, Rick Womer wrote: Well, no, Tom, the situations aren't at all parallel. I'm very, very happy to be using MRIs and PET/CTs. I'm also very happy to be using a K-5 instead of an istD or Super Program. The technology has its place, though. I don't get an MRI on every patient with a tummyache, just because it's available. I don't need a 24MP FF camera to do the kind of photography I do. Are you promoting the heretical view that not every photographer needs the ultimate performance in every category, for every photo that they take? Jeez, next thing you'll be saying is that one size does not fit all, and even worse, that there is no such thing as a perfect camera, because the things that would make it better for one application could make it worse for another application. I do hope however, that once pixel spacing gets below about 450nm the race for higher resolution will taper off. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
Yeah, could be. I thought it was fairly settled (for now) that Ricoh does want to keep the Pentax brand name alive. On 7/16/2013 8:04 PM, kwal...@peoplepc.com wrote: Rumor has it that *SOMEDAY* there's going to be a FF Pentax DSLR. Shouldn't that be Rumor has it that *SOMEDAY* there's going to be a FF Ricoh DSLR. Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: John johnsess...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: Any new flagship camera rumors? Rumor has it that *SOMEDAY* there's going to be a FF Pentax DSLR. On 7/16/2013 12:11 PM, John Celio wrote: Anyone heard any recent rumors about a new flagship Pentax camera? It bothers me that all of their current models have 16MP sensors. I really want to upgrade my K-5 (the blob on the sensor that refuses to go away is one reason for this), but I'm not going to spend money for the same resolution. Lurking in hope of news, John -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
From: Rick Womer rwomer1...@yahoo.com Well, no, Tom, the situations aren't at all parallel. ? I'm very, very happy to be using MRIs and PET/CTs. ?I'm also very happy to be using a K-5 instead of an istD or Super Program. The technology has its place, though. ?I don't get an MRI on every patient with a tummyache, just because it's available. ?I don't need a 24MP FF camera to do the kind of photography I do. Rick ? http://photo.net/photos/RickW Hi Rick, You may not get an MRI on every patient with a tummyache, and that's a good thing. However having the MRI machine available is good, n'est-ce pas? Having more advanced technology in the future than whatever is current state of the art no doubt will have it's benefits also. A market must exist for something better or companies will not be incentivized to produce something better. Needs vs. desires vs. what becomes the accepted norm or state of the art, are three different things. It's no one's responsibility to purchase a company's products. I'm not suggesting you or anyone else fork over your hard earned income to any company for products you don't want. Pentax is in an unenviable spot, being widely perceived as a bargain brand. That's of course good for those that either can't or don't wish to spend more money. It's not so good for Pentax (Ricoh). When a brands customer base consists largely of people who want a lot for a little, it's like tying the corporate hands behind the corporate back. Having capital to invest in developing new products is achieved largely by selling current products at a decent margin. Notice the trend of so many to say what they have is 'good enough'? Pentax loses. Notice the trend of so many to wait a year or more until there's massive price cuts on the newest model Pentax camera? Pentax loses. Notice the trend of so many to purchase used gear as opposed to new? Pentax loses. Then there's those that put there money elsewhere because they're not getting what they want from Pentax. Pentax loses. There's nothing wrong with any of those actions and all are justifiable. Still - Pentax loses. So collectively, many of those people that love their Pentax gear because of the perceived value are the same people who, in essence, are limiting the profits and therefore the ability to produce meaningful new and better products. It's a gradual slow downwards spiral. End. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 08:40:26AM -0600, Tom C wrote: From: Rick Womer rwomer1...@yahoo.com Pentax is in an unenviable spot, being widely perceived as a bargain brand. That's of course good for those that either can't or don't wish to spend more money. It's not so good for Pentax (Ricoh). When a brands customer base consists largely of people who want a lot for a little, it's like tying the corporate hands behind the corporate back. Having capital to invest in developing new products is achieved largely by selling current products at a decent margin. Notice the trend of so many to say what they have is 'good enough'? Pentax loses. Notice the trend of so many to wait a year or more until there's massive price cuts on the newest model Pentax camera? Pentax loses. Notice the trend of so many to purchase used gear as opposed to new? Pentax loses. Then there's those that put there money elsewhere because they're not getting what they want from Pentax. Pentax loses. There's nothing wrong with any of those actions and all are justifiable. Still - Pentax loses. So collectively, many of those people that love their Pentax gear because of the perceived value are the same people who, in essence, are limiting the profits and therefore the ability to produce meaningful new and better products. It's a gradual slow downwards spiral. I don't think the problem is quite as bad you you think. Yes, people who know that Pentax exists, or even still exists, and who pay attention, recognize it as a bargain brand. However, I think that half of the 87 people that even know that Pentax cameras are still being made are on this list. If and when Ricoh puts some effort into actually making the Pentax brand known, it will pretty much be the first time most people under 40 are even aware of the brand. Also, I don't think that being known for giving good value for the money is that bad in this position. It's kind of tough if everyone knows about you, and all of your customers are tightwads, but having a reputation for good value among people looking to buy their first DSLR is generally a good thing. You aren't going to get a lot of people with thousands of dollars invested in a system switching brands. Most new customers will come from people getting their first DSLR, or who only have an entry level DSLR and a kit lens. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
The problem is that there is a different perfect camera for every photographer. jm -- From: John johnsess...@yahoo.com Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 9:52 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Any new flagship camera rumors? Sure there's a perfect camera. It's just no one is manufacturing it yet. On 7/16/2013 7:04 PM, Larry Colen wrote: On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 03:26:57PM -0700, Rick Womer wrote: Well, no, Tom, the situations aren't at all parallel. I'm very, very happy to be using MRIs and PET/CTs. I'm also very happy to be using a K-5 instead of an istD or Super Program. The technology has its place, though. I don't get an MRI on every patient with a tummyache, just because it's available. I don't need a 24MP FF camera to do the kind of photography I do. Are you promoting the heretical view that not every photographer needs the ultimate performance in every category, for every photo that they take? Jeez, next thing you'll be saying is that one size does not fit all, and even worse, that there is no such thing as a perfect camera, because the things that would make it better for one application could make it worse for another application. I do hope however, that once pixel spacing gets below about 450nm the race for higher resolution will taper off. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
The k-5 is nearly perfect to me. If it had 24mp and faster AF I probably wouldn't want anything more. On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 12:05 PM, John Mullan k...@hotmail.com wrote: The problem is that there is a different perfect camera for every photographer. jm -- From: John johnsess...@yahoo.com Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 9:52 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Any new flagship camera rumors? Sure there's a perfect camera. It's just no one is manufacturing it yet. On 7/16/2013 7:04 PM, Larry Colen wrote: On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 03:26:57PM -0700, Rick Womer wrote: Well, no, Tom, the situations aren't at all parallel. I'm very, very happy to be using MRIs and PET/CTs. I'm also very happy to be using a K-5 instead of an istD or Super Program. The technology has its place, though. I don't get an MRI on every patient with a tummyache, just because it's available. I don't need a 24MP FF camera to do the kind of photography I do. Are you promoting the heretical view that not every photographer needs the ultimate performance in every category, for every photo that they take? Jeez, next thing you'll be saying is that one size does not fit all, and even worse, that there is no such thing as a perfect camera, because the things that would make it better for one application could make it worse for another application. I do hope however, that once pixel spacing gets below about 450nm the race for higher resolution will taper off. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
From: Larry Colen l...@red4est.com I don't think the problem is quite as bad you you think. Yes, people who know that Pentax exists, or even still exists, and who pay attention, recognize it as a bargain brand. However, I think that half of the 87 people that even know that Pentax cameras are still being made are on this list. If and when Ricoh puts some effort into actually making the Pentax brand known, it will pretty much be the first time most people under 40 are even aware of the brand. Also, I don't think that being known for giving good value for the money is that bad in this position. It's kind of tough if everyone knows about you, and all of your customers are tightwads, but having a reputation for good value among people looking to buy their first DSLR is generally a good thing. You aren't going to get a lot of people with thousands of dollars invested in a system switching brands. Most new customers will come from people getting their first DSLR, or who only have an entry level DSLR and a kit lens. And those people will see Pentax in Costco, Sam's, Best Buy, or Wal-Mart, and hit themselves in the middle of of the forehead with the heel of their hand and say I think I'll go with Pentax? Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
On 7/17/2013 11:54 AM, Tom C wrote: From: Larry Colen l...@red4est.com I don't think the problem is quite as bad you you think. Yes, people who know that Pentax exists, or even still exists, and who pay attention, recognize it as a bargain brand. However, I think that half of the 87 people that even know that Pentax cameras are still being made are on this list. If and when Ricoh puts some effort into actually making the Pentax brand known, it will pretty much be the first time most people under 40 are even aware of the brand. Also, I don't think that being known for giving good value for the money is that bad in this position. It's kind of tough if everyone knows about you, and all of your customers are tightwads, but having a reputation for good value among people looking to buy their first DSLR is generally a good thing. You aren't going to get a lot of people with thousands of dollars invested in a system switching brands. Most new customers will come from people getting their first DSLR, or who only have an entry level DSLR and a kit lens. And those people will see Pentax in Costco, Sam's, Best Buy, or Wal-Mart, and hit themselves in the middle of of the forehead with the heel of their hand and say I think I'll go with Pentax? Tom C. Granted, I may not be representative of the camera-buying population at large, but I hemmed and hawed and researched for months before finally settling on Pentax as my first new DSLR. I was torn between the Canon T2i (at Best Buy) and the K-x, which just happened to be in stock at the local brick mortar camera shop. And, as it happens, the K-x two-lens kit happened to fall into my more immediate budget while the T2i's one-lens kit would have required a couple more weeks of scraping up pennies. So, I jumped at the Pentax. However, had the K-x not been there at the little camera shop when I finally decided to take the plunge, I would have in all likelihood ended up a Canikon shooter. (Though, it's entirely possible I could've ended up with a Sony, since the guy at the shop seemed to be pushing me in that direction.) -- Walt -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
On 7/17/2013 12:54 PM, Tom C wrote: From: Larry Colen l...@red4est.com I don't think the problem is quite as bad you you think. Yes, people who know that Pentax exists, or even still exists, and who pay attention, recognize it as a bargain brand. However, I think that half of the 87 people that even know that Pentax cameras are still being made are on this list. If and when Ricoh puts some effort into actually making the Pentax brand known, it will pretty much be the first time most people under 40 are even aware of the brand. Also, I don't think that being known for giving good value for the money is that bad in this position. It's kind of tough if everyone knows about you, and all of your customers are tightwads, but having a reputation for good value among people looking to buy their first DSLR is generally a good thing. You aren't going to get a lot of people with thousands of dollars invested in a system switching brands. Most new customers will come from people getting their first DSLR, or who only have an entry level DSLR and a kit lens. And those people will see Pentax in Costco, Sam's, Best Buy, or Wal-Mart, and hit themselves in the middle of of the forehead with the heel of their hand and say I think I'll go with Pentax? Tom C. People see the ubiquitous Canon Rebel in all those places and buy the top brand despite it's shortcomings, because it's the top brand. I'd say it out competes Pentax on it's bigger siblings, except Pentax has no presence in any of those stores physical locations, as far as I can tell. -- There are two kinds of computer users those who've experienced a hard drive failure, and those that will. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
From: Rick Womer rwomer1...@yahoo.com Notice the trend of so many to say what they have is 'good enough'? Pentax loses. Notice the trend of so many to wait a year or more until there's massive price cuts on the newest model Pentax camera? Pentax loses. Notice the trend of so many to purchase used gear as opposed to new? Pentax loses. Then there's those that put there money elsewhere because they're not getting what they want from Pentax. Pentax loses. There's nothing wrong with any of those actions and all are justifiable. Still - Pentax loses. IMO - every other camera manufacturer has to deal with those exact same issues, and to be honest I don't think that they are limiting factors. I just checked on ebay - there are over twice as many used Nikon and Canon lenses there then Pentax. I didn't check bodies but I assume there are a lot more used DSLR's of those brands simply because there has been a more active upgrade path. The more people upgrade the more used bodies there are for the bargain hunters. And Pentax (sadly) does not have to deal with the problem of Sigma, Tamron, and TOkina making lenses that compete with them - though I wish Sigma would kick out a few of their macro lenses in the K Mount. A robust used market is the sign of a healthy brand, IMO. But a brand that tries to live off its used market is in trouble. Back in the 90's the buzzword with Pentax was that there was this huge vast reserve of used lenses and since there was great backwards compatibility with Pentax you could tap into those old lenses. It was a bargain hunter's brand. It was a great argument at the time given that Canon and Nikon had respectively scrapped or significantly modified their lens mount a few years earlier. And even though I supect that at this very moment some dim-witted blogger cum photo gear reviewer is repeating that line about Pentax, Pentax's legacy glass advantage has largely faded. Canon and Nikon have a couple decades of used gear compatible with their systems now, and their used market is better than Pentax's, and if you are a bargain hunter you would be better off trolling in their waters and not Pentax's. I don't know how the Pentax brand will be resurrected but I keep hoping that Ricoh has a plan... Mark -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
The lack of used lenses, especially wide angle primes could point to there being a robust market for Pentax DSLRs. There was a time not too long ago, when there were always a number of A and FA 20mm lenses moving through KEH, now not so much. It's hard to find any 24mm and wider A or later lenses, (or fast 35mm and 28mm A, F and FA), lenses on KEH now. They seem to be snapped up as soon as they arrive. A lot of Pentax's more esoteric and well thought of glass is in great demand by knowledgeable users of systems of every stripe, from Canon DSLR's to pretty much every mirrorless system. Pentax's decision in retaining the relatively long flange to film plane distance from the original M42 lens mount makes adapting those lenses relatively easy. The K mount was a wide opening for it's era, but both Canon's and Minolta's allow an adapter that easily mounts a K mount lens at the proper registration distance. Unlike most other DSLR users not only are Pentax users competing with each other for the best glass ever designed for our lens mount, we're competing with with everybody else. On 7/17/2013 7:14 PM, Mark C wrote: From: Rick Womer rwomer1...@yahoo.com Notice the trend of so many to say what they have is 'good enough'? Pentax loses. Notice the trend of so many to wait a year or more until there's massive price cuts on the newest model Pentax camera? Pentax loses. Notice the trend of so many to purchase used gear as opposed to new? Pentax loses. Then there's those that put there money elsewhere because they're not getting what they want from Pentax. Pentax loses. There's nothing wrong with any of those actions and all are justifiable. Still - Pentax loses. IMO - every other camera manufacturer has to deal with those exact same issues, and to be honest I don't think that they are limiting factors. I just checked on ebay - there are over twice as many used Nikon and Canon lenses there then Pentax. I didn't check bodies but I assume there are a lot more used DSLR's of those brands simply because there has been a more active upgrade path. The more people upgrade the more used bodies there are for the bargain hunters. And Pentax (sadly) does not have to deal with the problem of Sigma, Tamron, and TOkina making lenses that compete with them - though I wish Sigma would kick out a few of their macro lenses in the K Mount. A robust used market is the sign of a healthy brand, IMO. But a brand that tries to live off its used market is in trouble. Back in the 90's the buzzword with Pentax was that there was this huge vast reserve of used lenses and since there was great backwards compatibility with Pentax you could tap into those old lenses. It was a bargain hunter's brand. It was a great argument at the time given that Canon and Nikon had respectively scrapped or significantly modified their lens mount a few years earlier. And even though I supect that at this very moment some dim-witted blogger cum photo gear reviewer is repeating that line about Pentax, Pentax's legacy glass advantage has largely faded. Canon and Nikon have a couple decades of used gear compatible with their systems now, and their used market is better than Pentax's, and if you are a bargain hunter you would be better off trolling in their waters and not Pentax's. I don't know how the Pentax brand will be resurrected but I keep hoping that Ricoh has a plan... Mark -- There are two kinds of computer users those who've experienced a hard drive failure, and those that will. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
Indeed. M42 takumars are being bought by the score too. That's been my real problem with k-mount: the lack of affordable used wide angle primes which are indeed in extremely short supply driving prices through the roof. Everyone from nex owners to m4/3 shooters are buying pentax glass because the secret is out about how quality and relatively affordable it is. Seems like everyone knows that the M series is pretty spectacular too. That used to be the least desirable series with K and A winning out. On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 8:16 PM, P.J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote: The lack of used lenses, especially wide angle primes could point to there being a robust market for Pentax DSLRs. There was a time not too long ago, when there were always a number of A and FA 20mm lenses moving through KEH, now not so much. It's hard to find any 24mm and wider A or later lenses, (or fast 35mm and 28mm A, F and FA), lenses on KEH now. They seem to be snapped up as soon as they arrive. A lot of Pentax's more esoteric and well thought of glass is in great demand by knowledgeable users of systems of every stripe, from Canon DSLR's to pretty much every mirrorless system. Pentax's decision in retaining the relatively long flange to film plane distance from the original M42 lens mount makes adapting those lenses relatively easy. The K mount was a wide opening for it's era, but both Canon's and Minolta's allow an adapter that easily mounts a K mount lens at the proper registration distance. Unlike most other DSLR users not only are Pentax users competing with each other for the best glass ever designed for our lens mount, we're competing with with everybody else. On 7/17/2013 7:14 PM, Mark C wrote: From: Rick Womer rwomer1...@yahoo.com Notice the trend of so many to say what they have is 'good enough'? Pentax loses. Notice the trend of so many to wait a year or more until there's massive price cuts on the newest model Pentax camera? Pentax loses. Notice the trend of so many to purchase used gear as opposed to new? Pentax loses. Then there's those that put there money elsewhere because they're not getting what they want from Pentax. Pentax loses. There's nothing wrong with any of those actions and all are justifiable. Still - Pentax loses. IMO - every other camera manufacturer has to deal with those exact same issues, and to be honest I don't think that they are limiting factors. I just checked on ebay - there are over twice as many used Nikon and Canon lenses there then Pentax. I didn't check bodies but I assume there are a lot more used DSLR's of those brands simply because there has been a more active upgrade path. The more people upgrade the more used bodies there are for the bargain hunters. And Pentax (sadly) does not have to deal with the problem of Sigma, Tamron, and TOkina making lenses that compete with them - though I wish Sigma would kick out a few of their macro lenses in the K Mount. A robust used market is the sign of a healthy brand, IMO. But a brand that tries to live off its used market is in trouble. Back in the 90's the buzzword with Pentax was that there was this huge vast reserve of used lenses and since there was great backwards compatibility with Pentax you could tap into those old lenses. It was a bargain hunter's brand. It was a great argument at the time given that Canon and Nikon had respectively scrapped or significantly modified their lens mount a few years earlier. And even though I supect that at this very moment some dim-witted blogger cum photo gear reviewer is repeating that line about Pentax, Pentax's legacy glass advantage has largely faded. Canon and Nikon have a couple decades of used gear compatible with their systems now, and their used market is better than Pentax's, and if you are a bargain hunter you would be better off trolling in their waters and not Pentax's. I don't know how the Pentax brand will be resurrected but I keep hoping that Ricoh has a plan... Mark -- There are two kinds of computer users those who've experienced a hard drive failure, and those that will. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Any new flagship camera rumors?
Anyone heard any recent rumors about a new flagship Pentax camera? It bothers me that all of their current models have 16MP sensors. I really want to upgrade my K-5 (the blob on the sensor that refuses to go away is one reason for this), but I'm not going to spend money for the same resolution. Lurking in hope of news, John -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 12:11 AM, John Celio neo.venator.com+p...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone heard any recent rumors about a new flagship Pentax camera? Maybe. That's all I'm going to say. Bong (from the country where they assemble it...) -- Bong Manayon http://bong.manayon.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
Funny, as I thought of the 16MP sensor in the K-5IIs as the second most important reason to upgrade from the K-5 (the first one being of course the huge improvement in AF accuracy in odd light). 16MP is already more than I need and I'm happy to delay any forced pixel count increase as much as possible. That's a wonderful world, isn't it? That said, it's too easy to foresee a K-5II/K-5IIs replacement taking advantage (?) of the same 24MP sensor used by the Nikon D7100 to see the light rather soon. Dario -Messaggio originale- From: John Celio Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 6:11 PM To: pdml@pdml.net Subject: Any new flagship camera rumors? Anyone heard any recent rumors about a new flagship Pentax camera? It bothers me that all of their current models have 16MP sensors. I really want to upgrade my K-5 (the blob on the sensor that refuses to go away is one reason for this), but I'm not going to spend money for the same resolution. Lurking in hope of news, John -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. - Nessun virus nel messaggio. Controllato da AVG - www.avg.com Versione: 2013.0.3349 / Database dei virus: 3204/6494 - Data di rilascio: 15/07/2013 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
;-) -Messaggio originale- From: Bong Manayon Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 6:18 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Any new flagship camera rumors? On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 12:11 AM, John Celio neo.venator.com+p...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone heard any recent rumors about a new flagship Pentax camera? Maybe. That's all I'm going to say. Bong (from the country where they assemble it...) -- Bong Manayon http://bong.manayon.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. - Nessun virus nel messaggio. Controllato da AVG - www.avg.com Versione: 2013.0.3349 / Database dei virus: 3204/6494 - Data di rilascio: 15/07/2013 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Dario Bonazza wrote: Funny, as I thought of the 16MP sensor in the K-5IIs as the second most important reason to upgrade from the K-5 (the first one being of course the huge improvement in AF accuracy in odd light). 16MP is already more than I need and I'm happy to delay any forced pixel count increase as much as possible. That's a wonderful world, isn't it? The K-5 has the same sensor, doesn't it? -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
Dario's reply makes me wonder if emoticons can legally be considered
violations of Non-Disclosure Agreements.
:|
I sincerely doubt it.
:\
Anyone who may or may not have signed a Non Disclosure Agreement, feel
free to respond to the following statements with an emoticon (only).
;)
Pentax FF Announcement 2013
Pentax FF Shipping 2013
Pentax FF Announcement 2014
Pentax FF Shipping 2014
Pentax FF Never
Pentax FF learned firsthand from a trusted source.
Pentax FF learned secondhand from a trusted source
Pentax FF learned from RiceHigh :{
:)
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Dario Bonazza
dario.bona...@virgilio.it wrote:
;-)
-Messaggio originale- From: Bong Manayon
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 6:18 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 12:11 AM, John Celio
neo.venator.com+p...@gmail.com wrote:
Anyone heard any recent rumors about a new flagship Pentax camera?
Maybe. That's all I'm going to say.
Bong
(from the country where they assemble it...)
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Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
Yes, but without an anti-alias filter, which means a visible jump in resolution sharpness when everything else (lens quality, steadiness focus) is at best. Getting all that without increasing file size and computer processing times is a real bonus. Dario -Messaggio originale- From: Aahz Maruch Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 6:57 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Any new flagship camera rumors? On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Dario Bonazza wrote: Funny, as I thought of the 16MP sensor in the K-5IIs as the second most important reason to upgrade from the K-5 (the first one being of course the huge improvement in AF accuracy in odd light). 16MP is already more than I need and I'm happy to delay any forced pixel count increase as much as possible. That's a wonderful world, isn't it? The K-5 has the same sensor, doesn't it? -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. - Nessun virus nel messaggio. Controllato da AVG - www.avg.com Versione: 2013.0.3349 / Database dei virus: 3204/6496 - Data di rilascio: 16/07/2013 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
Please read as follows: Yes, but the K-5IIs has no anti-alias filter, which means a visible jump in resolution sharpness when everything else (lens quality, steadiness focus) is at best. Getting all that without increasing file size and computer processing times is a bonus of the K-5IIs over the K-5. Dario -Messaggio originale- From: Aahz Maruch Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 6:57 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Any new flagship camera rumors? On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Dario Bonazza wrote: Funny, as I thought of the 16MP sensor in the K-5IIs as the second most important reason to upgrade from the K-5 (the first one being of course the huge improvement in AF accuracy in odd light). 16MP is already more than I need and I'm happy to delay any forced pixel count increase as much as possible. That's a wonderful world, isn't it? The K-5 has the same sensor, doesn't it? -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. - Nessun virus nel messaggio. Controllato da AVG - www.avg.com Versione: 2013.0.3349 / Database dei virus: 3204/6496 - Data di rilascio: 16/07/2013 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Dario Bonazza wrote: -Messaggio originale- From: Aahz Maruch On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Dario Bonazza wrote: Funny, as I thought of the 16MP sensor in the K-5IIs as the second most important reason to upgrade from the K-5 (the first one being of course the huge improvement in AF accuracy in odd light). 16MP is already more than I need and I'm happy to delay any forced pixel count increase as much as possible. That's a wonderful world, isn't it? The K-5 has the same sensor, doesn't it? Yes, but without an anti-alias filter, which means a visible jump in resolution sharpness when everything else (lens quality, steadiness focus) is at best. Missed that you were specifically talking about the IIs. Anyway, I took both II and IIs on my Alaska cruise, will report whether I notice any difference in sharpness (although there were essentially zero duplicate shots taken with the same lens on both bodies). -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
I probably won't buy another Pentax body (I have the K-7 and H-5) until/unless they come out with a FF body. I have so many lenses that are designed for full frame (31, 43, etc.), I would really like to be able to take full advantage of their capabilities. I use the Pentax primarily for photographing plays/musicals at the college. JLS On Jul 16, 2013, at 12:17 PM, Aahz Maruch wrote: On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Dario Bonazza wrote: -Messaggio originale- From: Aahz Maruch On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Dario Bonazza wrote: Funny, as I thought of the 16MP sensor in the K-5IIs as the second most important reason to upgrade from the K-5 (the first one being of course the huge improvement in AF accuracy in odd light). 16MP is already more than I need and I'm happy to delay any forced pixel count increase as much as possible. That's a wonderful world, isn't it? The K-5 has the same sensor, doesn't it? Yes, but without an anti-alias filter, which means a visible jump in resolution sharpness when everything else (lens quality, steadiness focus) is at best. Missed that you were specifically talking about the IIs. Anyway, I took both II and IIs on my Alaska cruise, will report whether I notice any difference in sharpness (although there were essentially zero duplicate shots taken with the same lens on both bodies). -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
You won't see evidence of the K-5IIs improvement over the K-5II in more than 90% of handheld shots, as you don't have everything else in the quality chain up to the task. On the other hand, you'll have evidence of the K-5IIs improvement over the K-5 (older model) in say 90% of shots in artificial light. For some reason, the K-5IIs seems to manage noise a bit better than the K-5II (and K-5) too. At least, the two K-5IIs bodies I had the chance to try did so. Dario -Messaggio originale- From: Aahz Maruch Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 7:17 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Any new flagship camera rumors? On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Dario Bonazza wrote: -Messaggio originale- From: Aahz Maruch On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Dario Bonazza wrote: Funny, as I thought of the 16MP sensor in the K-5IIs as the second most important reason to upgrade from the K-5 (the first one being of course the huge improvement in AF accuracy in odd light). 16MP is already more than I need and I'm happy to delay any forced pixel count increase as much as possible. That's a wonderful world, isn't it? The K-5 has the same sensor, doesn't it? Yes, but without an anti-alias filter, which means a visible jump in resolution sharpness when everything else (lens quality, steadiness focus) is at best. Missed that you were specifically talking about the IIs. Anyway, I took both II and IIs on my Alaska cruise, will report whether I notice any difference in sharpness (although there were essentially zero duplicate shots taken with the same lens on both bodies). -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. - Nessun virus nel messaggio. Controllato da AVG - www.avg.com Versione: 2013.0.3349 / Database dei virus: 3204/6496 - Data di rilascio: 16/07/2013 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
I don't know about you, but over 1/200 I can rarely see much difference in hand held vs tripod and I am certainly capable of sharp pictures down to even 1/8s hand held with wide angle lenses. I have a few 1/4s pictures that I have kept even that were very sharp. If I have the slightest hint of camera shake, I tend not to keep the image. That's just me though. The moire on the K-5 IIs is troubling to me. At the apertures I shoot at, the gains in resolution would mostly be lost. Such is life. On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Dario Bonazza dario.bona...@virgilio.it wrote: You won't see evidence of the K-5IIs improvement over the K-5II in more than 90% of handheld shots, as you don't have everything else in the quality chain up to the task. On the other hand, you'll have evidence of the K-5IIs improvement over the K-5 (older model) in say 90% of shots in artificial light. For some reason, the K-5IIs seems to manage noise a bit better than the K-5II (and K-5) too. At least, the two K-5IIs bodies I had the chance to try did so. Dario -Messaggio originale- From: Aahz Maruch Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 7:17 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Any new flagship camera rumors? On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Dario Bonazza wrote: -Messaggio originale- From: Aahz Maruch On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Dario Bonazza wrote: Funny, as I thought of the 16MP sensor in the K-5IIs as the second most important reason to upgrade from the K-5 (the first one being of course the huge improvement in AF accuracy in odd light). 16MP is already more than I need and I'm happy to delay any forced pixel count increase as much as possible. That's a wonderful world, isn't it? The K-5 has the same sensor, doesn't it? Yes, but without an anti-alias filter, which means a visible jump in resolution sharpness when everything else (lens quality, steadiness focus) is at best. Missed that you were specifically talking about the IIs. Anyway, I took both II and IIs on my Alaska cruise, will report whether I notice any difference in sharpness (although there were essentially zero duplicate shots taken with the same lens on both bodies). -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. - Nessun virus nel messaggio. Controllato da AVG - www.avg.com Versione: 2013.0.3349 / Database dei virus: 3204/6496 - Data di rilascio: 16/07/2013 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
I'm very, very happy with the K-5. I don't want more resolution, because I'm getting lovely large prints, and I don't want to replace my 2 year old computer or wait longer for images to be processed. I don't want full frame because I value the compact size and light weight of the APS-C K-5 and lenses (Shall I carry the 50-200 or the 80-320? Hmmm...). I am also growing weary of the whole discussion. To me, photography is about the photographs. Rick (becoming more curmudgeonly every day...) http://photo.net/photos/RickW - Original Message - From: John Celio neo.venator.com+p...@gmail.com To: pdml@pdml.net Cc: Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 12:11 PM Subject: Any new flagship camera rumors? Anyone heard any recent rumors about a new flagship Pentax camera? It bothers me that all of their current models have 16MP sensors. I really want to upgrade my K-5 (the blob on the sensor that refuses to go away is one reason for this), but I'm not going to spend money for the same resolution. Lurking in hope of news, John -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
On 16/7/13, Darren Addy, discombobulated, unleashed:
Pentax FF Announcement 2013
Pentax FF Shipping 2013
Pentax FF Announcement 2014
Pentax FF Shipping 2014
Pentax FF Never
Pentax FF learned firsthand from a trusted source.
Pentax FF learned secondhand from a trusted source
Pentax FF learned from RiceHigh :{
How about
Pentax FF swinging in the wind
?
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Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
From: Rick Womer rwomer1...@yahoo.com I'm very, very happy with the K-5. I don't want more resolution, because I'm getting lovely large prints, and I don't want to replace my 2 year old computer or wait longer for images to be processed. I don't want full frame because I value the compact size and light weight of the APS-C K-5 and lenses (Shall I carry the 50-200 or the 80-320? Hmmm...). I am also growing weary of the whole discussion. ?To me, photography is about the photographs. Rick (becoming more curmudgeonly every day...) You know, you're absolutely right. The older cancer treatments work for a lot of people, so there's no real reason to look for anything better. They're relatively cost effective and good enough in most cases. The same is true of diagnostic technology, it works now, so why try to do it better? To me it's about the patient, not the technology. ;-) Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
Rumor has it that *SOMEDAY* there's going to be a FF Pentax DSLR. On 7/16/2013 12:11 PM, John Celio wrote: Anyone heard any recent rumors about a new flagship Pentax camera? It bothers me that all of their current models have 16MP sensors. I really want to upgrade my K-5 (the blob on the sensor that refuses to go away is one reason for this), but I'm not going to spend money for the same resolution. Lurking in hope of news, John -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 07:14:26PM +0100, Steve Cottrell wrote:
On 16/7/13, Darren Addy, discombobulated, unleashed:
Pentax FF Announcement 2013
Pentax FF Shipping 2013
Pentax FF Announcement 2014
Pentax FF Shipping 2014
Pentax FF Never
Pentax FF learned firsthand from a trusted source.
Pentax FF learned secondhand from a trusted source
Pentax FF learned from RiceHigh :{
How about
Pentax FF swinging in the wind
The full frame my friend
is swinging in the wind
Pentax full frame
is swinging in the wind
?
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Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, John wrote: Rumor has it that *SOMEDAY* there's going to be a FF Pentax DSLR. No, no, no, someday there will be a rumor that there's going to be a FF Pentax DSLR. -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
Thankfully, tripod vs handheld is a pleasant break from FF hot air. :-) Zos, eyebrows are my litmus test for system sharpness. Get a well-lit headshot of somebody and examine their eyebrows. You should clearly see the individual hairs. Any time I handhold to get such a shot the eyebrows are invariably a gaussian smear. You cannot do clean retouching of such images. I can show you a 100% crop of my model's eyebrows from the last beauty shots I took using a tripod with my K20D and DA* 50-135. Clear, sharp, detailed. I defy you to get that clarity handheld, no matter the shutter speed. BTW, I compared Gerrit's K-5 doing the same thing: there was no effective resolution difference to the K20D. I'm hoping to try a K-5IIs for this as well. I suspect it will do much better. I hope there will be a 24mpx APS-C upgrade to the K-5. 'Till then, I'm happy with the K20. On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 1:56 PM, Zos Xavius zosxav...@gmail.com wrote: I don't know about you, but over 1/200 I can rarely see much difference in hand held vs tripod and I am certainly capable of sharp pictures down to even 1/8s hand held with wide angle lenses. I have a few 1/4s pictures that I have kept even that were very sharp. If I have the slightest hint of camera shake, I tend not to keep the image. That's just me though. The moire on the K-5 IIs is troubling to me. At the apertures I shoot at, the gains in resolution would mostly be lost. Such is life. On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Dario Bonazza dario.bona...@virgilio.it wrote: You won't see evidence of the K-5IIs improvement over the K-5II in more than 90% of handheld shots, as you don't have everything else in the quality chain up to the task. On the other hand, you'll have evidence of the K-5IIs improvement over the K-5 (older model) in say 90% of shots in artificial light. For some reason, the K-5IIs seems to manage noise a bit better than the K-5II (and K-5) too. At least, the two K-5IIs bodies I had the chance to try did so. Dario -Messaggio originale- From: Aahz Maruch Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 7:17 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Any new flagship camera rumors? On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Dario Bonazza wrote: -Messaggio originale- From: Aahz Maruch On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Dario Bonazza wrote: Funny, as I thought of the 16MP sensor in the K-5IIs as the second most important reason to upgrade from the K-5 (the first one being of course the huge improvement in AF accuracy in odd light). 16MP is already more than I need and I'm happy to delay any forced pixel count increase as much as possible. That's a wonderful world, isn't it? The K-5 has the same sensor, doesn't it? Yes, but without an anti-alias filter, which means a visible jump in resolution sharpness when everything else (lens quality, steadiness focus) is at best. Missed that you were specifically talking about the IIs. Anyway, I took both II and IIs on my Alaska cruise, will report whether I notice any difference in sharpness (although there were essentially zero duplicate shots taken with the same lens on both bodies). -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. - Nessun virus nel messaggio. Controllato da AVG - www.avg.com Versione: 2013.0.3349 / Database dei virus: 3204/6496 - Data di rilascio: 16/07/2013 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
What's this? A challenge?! Tripod vs handheld?! You dare me? :P Thankfully I happen to have my tripod with me today. The truth is out there friends.. :P btw, I use eyebrows and eye lashes to determine focus. if they are remotely blurred I will toss the shot. On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Bruce Walker bruce.wal...@gmail.com wrote: Thankfully, tripod vs handheld is a pleasant break from FF hot air. :-) Zos, eyebrows are my litmus test for system sharpness. Get a well-lit headshot of somebody and examine their eyebrows. You should clearly see the individual hairs. Any time I handhold to get such a shot the eyebrows are invariably a gaussian smear. You cannot do clean retouching of such images. I can show you a 100% crop of my model's eyebrows from the last beauty shots I took using a tripod with my K20D and DA* 50-135. Clear, sharp, detailed. I defy you to get that clarity handheld, no matter the shutter speed. BTW, I compared Gerrit's K-5 doing the same thing: there was no effective resolution difference to the K20D. I'm hoping to try a K-5IIs for this as well. I suspect it will do much better. I hope there will be a 24mpx APS-C upgrade to the K-5. 'Till then, I'm happy with the K20. On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 1:56 PM, Zos Xavius zosxav...@gmail.com wrote: I don't know about you, but over 1/200 I can rarely see much difference in hand held vs tripod and I am certainly capable of sharp pictures down to even 1/8s hand held with wide angle lenses. I have a few 1/4s pictures that I have kept even that were very sharp. If I have the slightest hint of camera shake, I tend not to keep the image. That's just me though. The moire on the K-5 IIs is troubling to me. At the apertures I shoot at, the gains in resolution would mostly be lost. Such is life. On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Dario Bonazza dario.bona...@virgilio.it wrote: You won't see evidence of the K-5IIs improvement over the K-5II in more than 90% of handheld shots, as you don't have everything else in the quality chain up to the task. On the other hand, you'll have evidence of the K-5IIs improvement over the K-5 (older model) in say 90% of shots in artificial light. For some reason, the K-5IIs seems to manage noise a bit better than the K-5II (and K-5) too. At least, the two K-5IIs bodies I had the chance to try did so. Dario -Messaggio originale- From: Aahz Maruch Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 7:17 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Any new flagship camera rumors? On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Dario Bonazza wrote: -Messaggio originale- From: Aahz Maruch On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Dario Bonazza wrote: Funny, as I thought of the 16MP sensor in the K-5IIs as the second most important reason to upgrade from the K-5 (the first one being of course the huge improvement in AF accuracy in odd light). 16MP is already more than I need and I'm happy to delay any forced pixel count increase as much as possible. That's a wonderful world, isn't it? The K-5 has the same sensor, doesn't it? Yes, but without an anti-alias filter, which means a visible jump in resolution sharpness when everything else (lens quality, steadiness focus) is at best. Missed that you were specifically talking about the IIs. Anyway, I took both II and IIs on my Alaska cruise, will report whether I notice any difference in sharpness (although there were essentially zero duplicate shots taken with the same lens on both bodies). -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. - Nessun virus nel messaggio. Controllato da AVG - www.avg.com Versione: 2013.0.3349 / Database dei virus: 3204/6496 - Data di rilascio: 16/07/2013 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Eyebrow clarity: handheld vs tripod (was Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?)
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Bruce Walker wrote: Zos, eyebrows are my litmus test for system sharpness. Get a well-lit headshot of somebody and examine their eyebrows. You should clearly see the individual hairs. Any time I handhold to get such a shot the eyebrows are invariably a gaussian smear. You cannot do clean retouching of such images. I can show you a 100% crop of my model's eyebrows from the last beauty shots I took using a tripod with my K20D and DA* 50-135. Clear, sharp, detailed. I defy you to get that clarity handheld, no matter the shutter speed. Let's make sure we're testing the same thing. What percent of frame should the person's head be? Any other requirements? -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Any new flagship camera rumors?
How difficult would it be to make a Sensor with removable Anti Aliasing Filter? Definitely a preferred choice along with a 24 MP APS-C Sensor. This would greatly help in photo situations where moire is not a concern, but picture sharpness is important say for macro shots. One could then use some of the finer Legacy Lenses without having light bouncing of the Anti Aliasing filter and causing internal reflections in the lens. One could than add back the AA Filter when a modern Digital Lens is mounted on the camera. Regards. Bipin - from that far away enchanting land. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Eyebrow clarity: handheld vs tripod (was Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?)
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Bruce Walker wrote: Zos, eyebrows are my litmus test for system sharpness. Get a well-lit headshot of somebody and examine their eyebrows. You should clearly see the individual hairs. Any time I handhold to get such a shot the eyebrows are invariably a gaussian smear. You cannot do clean retouching of such images. I can show you a 100% crop of my model's eyebrows from the last beauty shots I took using a tripod with my K20D and DA* 50-135. Clear, sharp, detailed. I defy you to get that clarity handheld, no matter the shutter speed. Let's make sure we're testing the same thing. What percent of frame should the person's head be? Any other requirements? You want this to be scientific? This is The Internet. :-) Well, the shot I have In Support of Tripod Use is this recent one: http://flic.kr/p/f2Kebj Obviously head fills the frame, landscape. Camera was about 8-9 feet away, 135mm at F8.0, ISO 200. Probably not the best tripod for the task, the ball head is a bit light for the DA* 50-135 + K20D: Manfrotto 190XproB, 486RC2 head. Here's a 100% crop of her right eyebrow and eyelashes: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2254722/PDML/BMW_8026-crop.tif It's an 8-bit TIFF, exported from the original RAW shot in Lightroom 4. Lr's default zeroed settings except WB: flash and the default RAW sharpening of 25. -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
Apparently _very_ difficult. The Bayer filter is part of a sensor sandwich. It's not like something that could be flipped down into place. Word is it's also a non-issue up around 24 megapixels. I don't believe anyone's seen moire in the Nikon body and they don't offer AA as an option. On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 4:13 PM, Bipin Gupta bip...@gmail.com wrote: How difficult would it be to make a Sensor with removable Anti Aliasing Filter? Definitely a preferred choice along with a 24 MP APS-C Sensor. This would greatly help in photo situations where moire is not a concern, but picture sharpness is important say for macro shots. One could then use some of the finer Legacy Lenses without having light bouncing of the Anti Aliasing filter and causing internal reflections in the lens. One could than add back the AA Filter when a modern Digital Lens is mounted on the camera. Regards. Bipin - from that far away enchanting land. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Bruce Walker bruce.wal...@gmail.com wrote: Word is it's also a non-issue up around 24 megapixels. I don't believe anyone's seen moire in the Nikon body and they don't offer AA as an option. I think it is a lot rarer to run into than people's initial expectations, but it has definitely been seen. Here's an example, along with a look at software removal success (or not). http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/blog/2012/7/d800e-and-moir-what-pp-gets-rid-of-it-best -- Photography is a Bastard left by Science on the Doorstep of Art - Peter Galassi -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 4:45 PM, Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Bruce Walker bruce.wal...@gmail.com wrote: Word is it's also a non-issue up around 24 megapixels. I don't believe anyone's seen moire in the Nikon body and they don't offer AA as an option. I think it is a lot rarer to run into than people's initial expectations, but it has definitely been seen. Here's an example, along with a look at software removal success (or not). http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/blog/2012/7/d800e-and-moir-what-pp-gets-rid-of-it-best That's a very interesting article, Darren. Thanks. I was actually thinking of the Nikon D7100 which is closer in specs to what the wishfully rumoured K-5 upgrade would likely be. Ie: it won't suffer from the same sharpness issues as the 800E, so natural gaussian blur is expected to have a soft AA effect. -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
From the pictures I have seen its a non issue on the D7100. I'm sure it can be induced though. It's the nature of the bayer pattern. The Foveon avoids it because there is no interpolation. The Trans-X avoids it because IMHO it is sacrificing fine detail due to the way the sensor is laid out and the resulting image is interpolated. Look at the 5d mk2 comparison at dpreview and compare to the x-pro and k-5 iis. The k-5 is neck and neck with the 5dmk2 which has an AA filter. The x-pro doesn't come close to either, but the resulting image looks very sharp and gives the illusion of greater detail. This is my opinion, but I compared these cameras for a very long time looking at different parts of the scene and came to the conclusion that the k-5 iis can compete with 20mp full frame. I eagerly await a 24mp aps-c sensor from pentax. Too bad most of my glass will be likely outresolved. Especially my newer DA zooms. I expect some of my older glass to hold up fairly well though. Primes especially. I believe that quite a few MF cameras had removable AA filters. The sigma SLRs have a glass piece in front of the mirror box that you can remove for IR photography. Kind of cool actually. The nature of AA filters probably requires them to be sandwiched on the sensor. I don't know what is more reflective honestly. I bet the D800 without the AA filter has a pretty shiny sensor too. There is quite a bit of metal in between the actual photo receptors along with wiring that is actually in front of them as well. Which is why BSI is all the rage in small sensors now. All the glass and microlenses in front of the sensor are probably fairly reflective as well. Its probably why the AA filters are covered with multiple layers of coatings. On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Bruce Walker bruce.wal...@gmail.com wrote: Apparently _very_ difficult. The Bayer filter is part of a sensor sandwich. It's not like something that could be flipped down into place. Word is it's also a non-issue up around 24 megapixels. I don't believe anyone's seen moire in the Nikon body and they don't offer AA as an option. On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 4:13 PM, Bipin Gupta bip...@gmail.com wrote: How difficult would it be to make a Sensor with removable Anti Aliasing Filter? Definitely a preferred choice along with a 24 MP APS-C Sensor. This would greatly help in photo situations where moire is not a concern, but picture sharpness is important say for macro shots. One could then use some of the finer Legacy Lenses without having light bouncing of the Anti Aliasing filter and causing internal reflections in the lens. One could than add back the AA Filter when a modern Digital Lens is mounted on the camera. Regards. Bipin - from that far away enchanting land. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Eyebrow clarity: handheld vs tripod (was Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?)
On 7/16/2013 3:43 PM, Aahz Maruch wrote: On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Bruce Walker wrote: Zos, eyebrows are my litmus test for system sharpness. Get a well-lit headshot of somebody and examine their eyebrows. You should clearly see the individual hairs. Any time I handhold to get such a shot the eyebrows are invariably a gaussian smear. You cannot do clean retouching of such images. I can show you a 100% crop of my model's eyebrows from the last beauty shots I took using a tripod with my K20D and DA* 50-135. Clear, sharp, detailed. I defy you to get that clarity handheld, no matter the shutter speed. Let's make sure we're testing the same thing. What percent of frame should the person's head be? Any other requirements? Unless you're shooting for CSI, you want the person to have all of their head. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
Also, I believe that a 16mp aps-c sensor extrapolates to a 36mp full frame sensor. Correct me if I am wrong, but don't the d800 and k-5 have similar pixel pitch? Yep. 4.8. So clearly getting to 3.9 (d7100) is much better for moire. That also provides a full frame sensor with over 50mp of resolution. That is impressive. Good luck resolving 50mp with full frame lenses though! On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 4:59 PM, Zos Xavius zosxav...@gmail.com wrote: From the pictures I have seen its a non issue on the D7100. I'm sure it can be induced though. It's the nature of the bayer pattern. The Foveon avoids it because there is no interpolation. The Trans-X avoids it because IMHO it is sacrificing fine detail due to the way the sensor is laid out and the resulting image is interpolated. Look at the 5d mk2 comparison at dpreview and compare to the x-pro and k-5 iis. The k-5 is neck and neck with the 5dmk2 which has an AA filter. The x-pro doesn't come close to either, but the resulting image looks very sharp and gives the illusion of greater detail. This is my opinion, but I compared these cameras for a very long time looking at different parts of the scene and came to the conclusion that the k-5 iis can compete with 20mp full frame. I eagerly await a 24mp aps-c sensor from pentax. Too bad most of my glass will be likely outresolved. Especially my newer DA zooms. I expect some of my older glass to hold up fairly well though. Primes especially. I believe that quite a few MF cameras had removable AA filters. The sigma SLRs have a glass piece in front of the mirror box that you can remove for IR photography. Kind of cool actually. The nature of AA filters probably requires them to be sandwiched on the sensor. I don't know what is more reflective honestly. I bet the D800 without the AA filter has a pretty shiny sensor too. There is quite a bit of metal in between the actual photo receptors along with wiring that is actually in front of them as well. Which is why BSI is all the rage in small sensors now. All the glass and microlenses in front of the sensor are probably fairly reflective as well. Its probably why the AA filters are covered with multiple layers of coatings. On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Bruce Walker bruce.wal...@gmail.com wrote: Apparently _very_ difficult. The Bayer filter is part of a sensor sandwich. It's not like something that could be flipped down into place. Word is it's also a non-issue up around 24 megapixels. I don't believe anyone's seen moire in the Nikon body and they don't offer AA as an option. On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 4:13 PM, Bipin Gupta bip...@gmail.com wrote: How difficult would it be to make a Sensor with removable Anti Aliasing Filter? Definitely a preferred choice along with a 24 MP APS-C Sensor. This would greatly help in photo situations where moire is not a concern, but picture sharpness is important say for macro shots. One could then use some of the finer Legacy Lenses without having light bouncing of the Anti Aliasing filter and causing internal reflections in the lens. One could than add back the AA Filter when a modern Digital Lens is mounted on the camera. Regards. Bipin - from that far away enchanting land. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Eyebrow clarity: handheld vs tripod (was Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?)
I think a brick wall would be a better subject. Objections? The subject shouldn't matter as long as it is sharp. A static object makes for the best test IMO. On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 5:03 PM, John johnsess...@yahoo.com wrote: On 7/16/2013 3:43 PM, Aahz Maruch wrote: On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Bruce Walker wrote: Zos, eyebrows are my litmus test for system sharpness. Get a well-lit headshot of somebody and examine their eyebrows. You should clearly see the individual hairs. Any time I handhold to get such a shot the eyebrows are invariably a gaussian smear. You cannot do clean retouching of such images. I can show you a 100% crop of my model's eyebrows from the last beauty shots I took using a tripod with my K20D and DA* 50-135. Clear, sharp, detailed. I defy you to get that clarity handheld, no matter the shutter speed. Let's make sure we're testing the same thing. What percent of frame should the person's head be? Any other requirements? Unless you're shooting for CSI, you want the person to have all of their head. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Eyebrow clarity: handheld vs tripod (was Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?)
Depends on the person. :P On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 5:03 PM, John johnsess...@yahoo.com wrote: On 7/16/2013 3:43 PM, Aahz Maruch wrote: On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Bruce Walker wrote: Zos, eyebrows are my litmus test for system sharpness. Get a well-lit headshot of somebody and examine their eyebrows. You should clearly see the individual hairs. Any time I handhold to get such a shot the eyebrows are invariably a gaussian smear. You cannot do clean retouching of such images. I can show you a 100% crop of my model's eyebrows from the last beauty shots I took using a tripod with my K20D and DA* 50-135. Clear, sharp, detailed. I defy you to get that clarity handheld, no matter the shutter speed. Let's make sure we're testing the same thing. What percent of frame should the person's head be? Any other requirements? Unless you're shooting for CSI, you want the person to have all of their head. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 03:45:59PM -0500, Darren Addy wrote: On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Bruce Walker bruce.wal...@gmail.com wrote: Word is it's also a non-issue up around 24 megapixels. I don't believe anyone's seen moire in the Nikon body and they don't offer AA as an option. I think it is a lot rarer to run into than people's initial expectations, but it has definitely been seen. Here's an example, along with a look at software removal success (or not). http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/blog/2012/7/d800e-and-moir-what-pp-gets-rid-of-it-best I saw a bit of it in the extreme crop Nikon images that were posted in another thread. I expect a lot more of it in red and blue, than in green. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
Well, no, Tom, the situations aren't at all parallel. I'm very, very happy to be using MRIs and PET/CTs. I'm also very happy to be using a K-5 instead of an istD or Super Program. The technology has its place, though. I don't get an MRI on every patient with a tummyache, just because it's available. I don't need a 24MP FF camera to do the kind of photography I do. Rick http://photo.net/photos/RickW - Original Message - From: Tom C caka...@gmail.com To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Cc: Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 2:23 PM Subject: Re: Any new flagship camera rumors? From: Rick Womer rwomer1...@yahoo.com I'm very, very happy with the K-5. I don't want more resolution, because I'm getting lovely large prints, and I don't want to replace my 2 year old computer or wait longer for images to be processed. I don't want full frame because I value the compact size and light weight of the APS-C K-5 and lenses (Shall I carry the 50-200 or the 80-320? Hmmm...). I am also growing weary of the whole discussion. ?To me, photography is about the photographs. Rick (becoming more curmudgeonly every day...) You know, you're absolutely right. The older cancer treatments work for a lot of people, so there's no real reason to look for anything better. They're relatively cost effective and good enough in most cases. The same is true of diagnostic technology, it works now, so why try to do it better? To me it's about the patient, not the technology. ;-) Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 03:26:57PM -0700, Rick Womer wrote: Well, no, Tom, the situations aren't at all parallel. I'm very, very happy to be using MRIs and PET/CTs. I'm also very happy to be using a K-5 instead of an istD or Super Program. The technology has its place, though. I don't get an MRI on every patient with a tummyache, just because it's available. I don't need a 24MP FF camera to do the kind of photography I do. Are you promoting the heretical view that not every photographer needs the ultimate performance in every category, for every photo that they take? Jeez, next thing you'll be saying is that one size does not fit all, and even worse, that there is no such thing as a perfect camera, because the things that would make it better for one application could make it worse for another application. I do hope however, that once pixel spacing gets below about 450nm the race for higher resolution will taper off. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
It's so hard that Nikon didn't even bother, they added a second AA filter to counteract the effect. On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 4:13 PM, Bipin Gupta bip...@gmail.com wrote: How difficult would it be to make a Sensor with removable Anti Aliasing Filter? Definitely a preferred choice along with a 24 MP APS-C Sensor. This would greatly help in photo situations where moire is not a concern, but picture sharpness is important say for macro shots. One could then use some of the finer Legacy Lenses without having light bouncing of the Anti Aliasing filter and causing internal reflections in the lens. One could than add back the AA Filter when a modern Digital Lens is mounted on the camera. Regards. Bipin - from that far away enchanting land. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- David Parsons Photography http://www.davidparsonsphoto.com Aloha Photographer Photoblog http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
As they say size does make a difference! All depends on the size/weight of the lens you're using and what you're shooting. Try hand hold a 300mm lens while tracking a caribou for a few minutes! Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: Zos Xavius zosxav...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Any new flagship camera rumors? I don't know about you, but over 1/200 I can rarely see much difference in hand held vs tripod and I am certainly capable of sharp pictures down to even 1/8s hand held with wide angle lenses. I have a few 1/4s pictures that I have kept even that were very sharp. If I have the slightest hint of camera shake, I tend not to keep the image. That's just me though. The moire on the K-5 IIs is troubling to me. At the apertures I shoot at, the gains in resolution would mostly be lost. Such is life. On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Dario Bonazza dario.bona...@virgilio.it wrote: You won't see evidence of the K-5IIs improvement over the K-5II in more than 90% of handheld shots, as you don't have everything else in the quality chain up to the task. On the other hand, you'll have evidence of the K-5IIs improvement over the K-5 (older model) in say 90% of shots in artificial light. For some reason, the K-5IIs seems to manage noise a bit better than the K-5II (and K-5) too. At least, the two K-5IIs bodies I had the chance to try did so. Dario -Messaggio originale- From: Aahz Maruch Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 7:17 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Any new flagship camera rumors? On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Dario Bonazza wrote: -Messaggio originale- From: Aahz Maruch On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Dario Bonazza wrote: Funny, as I thought of the 16MP sensor in the K-5IIs as the second most important reason to upgrade from the K-5 (the first one being of course the huge improvement in AF accuracy in odd light). 16MP is already more than I need and I'm happy to delay any forced pixel count increase as much as possible. That's a wonderful world, isn't it? The K-5 has the same sensor, doesn't it? Yes, but without an anti-alias filter, which means a visible jump in resolution sharpness when everything else (lens quality, steadiness focus) is at best. Missed that you were specifically talking about the IIs. Anyway, I took both II and IIs on my Alaska cruise, will report whether I notice any difference in sharpness (although there were essentially zero duplicate shots taken with the same lens on both bodies). -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
Rumor has it that *SOMEDAY* there's going to be a FF Pentax DSLR. Shouldn't that be Rumor has it that *SOMEDAY* there's going to be a FF Ricoh DSLR. Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: John johnsess...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: Any new flagship camera rumors? Rumor has it that *SOMEDAY* there's going to be a FF Pentax DSLR. On 7/16/2013 12:11 PM, John Celio wrote: Anyone heard any recent rumors about a new flagship Pentax camera? It bothers me that all of their current models have 16MP sensors. I really want to upgrade my K-5 (the blob on the sensor that refuses to go away is one reason for this), but I'm not going to spend money for the same resolution. Lurking in hope of news, John -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?
Sent from my iPad On Jul 16, 2013, at 8:02 PM, kwal...@peoplepc.com wrote: As they say size does make a difference! All depends on the size/weight of the lens you're using and what you're shooting. Try hand hold a 300mm lens while tracking a caribou for a few minutes! I prefer to hire native guides to do the tracking for me. stan Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: Zos Xavius zosxav...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Any new flagship camera rumors? I don't know about you, but over 1/200 I can rarely see much difference in hand held vs tripod and I am certainly capable of sharp pictures down to even 1/8s hand held with wide angle lenses. I have a few 1/4s pictures that I have kept even that were very sharp. If I have the slightest hint of camera shake, I tend not to keep the image. That's just me though. The moire on the K-5 IIs is troubling to me. At the apertures I shoot at, the gains in resolution would mostly be lost. Such is life. On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Dario Bonazza dario.bona...@virgilio.it wrote: You won't see evidence of the K-5IIs improvement over the K-5II in more than 90% of handheld shots, as you don't have everything else in the quality chain up to the task. On the other hand, you'll have evidence of the K-5IIs improvement over the K-5 (older model) in say 90% of shots in artificial light. For some reason, the K-5IIs seems to manage noise a bit better than the K-5II (and K-5) too. At least, the two K-5IIs bodies I had the chance to try did so. Dario -Messaggio originale- From: Aahz Maruch Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 7:17 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Any new flagship camera rumors? On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Dario Bonazza wrote: -Messaggio originale- From: Aahz Maruch On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Dario Bonazza wrote: Funny, as I thought of the 16MP sensor in the K-5IIs as the second most important reason to upgrade from the K-5 (the first one being of course the huge improvement in AF accuracy in odd light). 16MP is already more than I need and I'm happy to delay any forced pixel count increase as much as possible. That's a wonderful world, isn't it? The K-5 has the same sensor, doesn't it? Yes, but without an anti-alias filter, which means a visible jump in resolution sharpness when everything else (lens quality, steadiness focus) is at best. Missed that you were specifically talking about the IIs. Anyway, I took both II and IIs on my Alaska cruise, will report whether I notice any difference in sharpness (although there were essentially zero duplicate shots taken with the same lens on both bodies). -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Eyebrow clarity: handheld vs tripod (was Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?)
On 7/16/2013 3:43 PM, Aahz Maruch wrote: Let's make sure we're testing the same thing. What percent of frame should the person's head be? Any other requirements? Person? If you really want a challenge go for a gnat's eyebrows - http://www.markcassino.com/b2evolution/media/blogs/calarti/2013/IMGP0279_v2_L.jpg (Tripod *was* used...) Mark -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Eyebrow clarity: handheld vs tripod (was Re: Any new flagship camera rumors?)
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013, Mark C wrote: If you really want a challenge go for a gnat's eyebrows - Mark! -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
