Re: Lightroom requires a TB??

2023-07-19 Thread John Sessoms
Yeah, but I DO mind paying monthly rental & CS6 (64-bit) runs just fine 
on the system I built specifically for Photoshop.


On 7/19/2023 9:33 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:

I don’t mind paying ten bucks a month for the latest versions of photoshop, 
bridge, and Lightroom, I had CS6 as well, but it won’t run on current Mac OSX. 
The new photoshop is substantially better than CS6.

Paul


On Jul 19, 2023, at 7:37 PM, John Sessoms  wrote:

On 7/18/2023 11:02 AM, Bill wrote:


I see your point, but prior to the subscription model, Photoshop was the most 
pirated software of any, with something like 80% or more of Photoshop 
installations being pirated.
Adobe had to do something. They have shareholders to answer to.


There was no upgrade path from PhotoshopCS5 to PhotoshopCS6 Extended Edition 
and I was advised to get the extended edition since it was going to be the last 
standalone perpetual license version.

I ended up paying full shrink wrap RETAIL ($700+) for it, but I don't have to 
pay a monthly ransom to continue using it.

And now it appears Adobe has actual competitors, so if PhotoshopCS6-EE ever 
proves to be inadequate ...




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Re: Lightroom requires a TB??

2023-07-19 Thread Paul Stenquist
I don’t mind paying ten bucks a month for the latest versions of photoshop, 
bridge, and Lightroom, I had CS6 as well, but it won’t run on current Mac OSX. 
The new photoshop is substantially better than CS6.

Paul

> On Jul 19, 2023, at 7:37 PM, John Sessoms  wrote:
> 
> On 7/18/2023 11:02 AM, Bill wrote:
> 
>> I see your point, but prior to the subscription model, Photoshop was the 
>> most pirated software of any, with something like 80% or more of Photoshop 
>> installations being pirated.
>> Adobe had to do something. They have shareholders to answer to.
> 
> There was no upgrade path from PhotoshopCS5 to PhotoshopCS6 Extended Edition 
> and I was advised to get the extended edition since it was going to be the 
> last standalone perpetual license version.
> 
> I ended up paying full shrink wrap RETAIL ($700+) for it, but I don't have to 
> pay a monthly ransom to continue using it.
> 
> And now it appears Adobe has actual competitors, so if PhotoshopCS6-EE ever 
> proves to be inadequate ...
> 
> -- 
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Re: Lightroom requires a TB??

2023-07-19 Thread John Sessoms

On 7/18/2023 11:02 AM, Bill wrote:

I see your point, but prior to the subscription model, Photoshop was the 
most pirated software of any, with something like 80% or more of 
Photoshop installations being pirated.

Adobe had to do something. They have shareholders to answer to.



There was no upgrade path from PhotoshopCS5 to PhotoshopCS6 Extended 
Edition and I was advised to get the extended edition since it was going 
to be the last standalone perpetual license version.


I ended up paying full shrink wrap RETAIL ($700+) for it, but I don't 
have to pay a monthly ransom to continue using it.


And now it appears Adobe has actual competitors, so if PhotoshopCS6-EE 
ever proves to be inadequate ...


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Re: Lightroom requires a TB??

2023-07-19 Thread John Sessoms

On 7/18/2023 10:11 AM, Ralf R Radermacher wrote:

Am 18.07.23 um 15:07 schrieb Bill:


Subscription services seem to be the way of the future.


Either that or you'll only get updates for a year. Still leaves you with
the option of continuing with the older version.

Then again, in many cases there is a new version every year that
includes new or improved functions and you'll upgrade anyhow.

What I hate are schemes like Adobe's where you lose all use of the
software if you don't keep on paying. ("Buy once, pay forever.")

Ralf



Which is why I'm still using the last perpetual license version of 
Photoshop - PhotoshopCS6 ...


The only real problem I've had with that is ALL the tutorials on YouTube 
assume the latest rent-ware version. Sometimes I have to figure out how 
to duplicate some new built-in feature; or find a different tutorial.



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Re: Lightroom requires a TB??

2023-07-19 Thread Ralf R Radermacher

Am 19.07.23 um 12:22 schrieb Steve Cottrell:

The paid version is about 300 USD and then all future upgrades are included.


So they say. Until they decide it won't be any longer.

Just got a message from the author of TwistedWave saying he's changing
to a thinly veiled subscription system that costs three times as much
per year as what I paid initially for the original version.

Happens all the time for all kinds of software now.

With the selection of software I use regularly, this easily adds up to
hundreds of euros per year. Sorry, folks, that's just what our
...censored... health insurance went up this year (yet again!).

I run a translation business, not a mint.

Ralf

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Re: Lightroom requires a TB??

2023-07-19 Thread Steve Cottrell
Me too. In fact My son bought CS6 when he was a student - we went halves on it. 
It can run on 2 separate computers, so happy days.

On a Mac it won’t run after OS 10.14 (Mojave) because 10.15 and onwards is 
64bit. Mojave runs fine for me and even better - I finally got DaVinci Resolve 
(video editing) running smooth on my 2012 MacBook Pro. That’s up to v18.5 but 
after much research I found that 16.1 sits fine with my limited VRAM - 16.1.1 
was a big upgrade requiring more VRAM and makes the playback stutter on my 
system.

So I’m *finally* weaning off my old FCP7 !! Been using FCP since version 4 from 
about 2006 or so. DaVinci Resolve is very similar to FCP7 (not FCPX which I 
don’t like) and there is a free version and a paid version. For my needs the 
free version works fine, but OI will happily pay if I need the extra features. 
The paid version is about 300 USD and then all future upgrades are included. I 
prefer this method of charging - one of the reasons I have avoided Adobe 
Premiere….

Best

Cotty

> On 18 Jul 2023, at 15:21, David J Brooks  wrote:
> 
> I'm still on standalone version 6 with 4 gig ram :-)


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Re: Lightroom requires a TB??

2023-07-18 Thread Ralf R Radermacher

Am 18.07.23 um 18:55 schrieb Larry Colen:


I'm also interested in Darktable, which has the big advantage that it will also 
run on Linux.


I've tried it, about a year ago, and to me it's something like the
proverbial horse designed by a committee. Or a software made by and for
mathematicians.

I've never quite understood their peculiar RAW developing logic. It's
said to be derived from colour correcting cine film or some such. Goes
far beyond me.

Ralf

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Re: Lightroom requires a TB??

2023-07-18 Thread Godfrey DiGiorgi
> On Jul 18, 2023, at 9:08 AM, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:
> 
> Am 18.07.23 um 17:02 schrieb Bill:
> 
>> I'd like a Maserati, but I can't afford it. Does this give me the right
>> to steal one?
> 
> Certainly not. But after you've legally bought one and paid the full
> price, they won't take it away from you if you don't keep paying year
> after year. Besides, an acquaintance of mine had one. That thing spent
> more time at the garage than on the road.
> 
> I have paid for Lightroom since their early days and when they pulled
> the plug on LR6 I've changed to ON1. Although they also lure me into
> buying yearly upgrades I don't have to if I don't want to and can still
> go on using it.
> 
> That said, I'm happier with ON1, the noise filter runs circles around LR
> and my photos look better.
> 
> Maybe I'm just old-fashioned. I don't borrow money to buy things and I
> prefer to own the things I buy. So, I'm still buying CDs instead of
> streaming.
> 
> Ralf


You never own software. You license it. Software always remains the property of 
the originator/vendor who produces it. Read the End User License Agreement 
included with every piece of software you ever use… It's much like a book or a 
photograph: You can own the physical book or photograph, but the rights to the 
words/image contained are always the property of the 
writer/photographer/publisher and are not yours to be utilized commercially for 
profit unless you pay them for a license to do so. 

LR Classic's latest "AI" noise filter is pretty darn good: 

Finished: https://flic.kr/p/2ovSe27
After - Before comparison crops: https://flic.kr/p/2ovRaG2 

… and that photo was made with the iPhone 11 Pro set to ISO 250, a ridiculously 
high ISO setting for a chintzy little sensor like a phone camera. 

I didn't buy any of the Adobe Cloud storage explicitly, although my $10/mo 
subscription comes with 20G as a default. I don't use it. My $10/mo 
subscription also comes with Photoshop as well as a few other apps that I have 
neither installed nor used. You only need to use what you want to use, that's 
all. Frankly, at $120 per year for the subscription, it's a bargain compared to 
paying about $500 for Photoshop, about $100 or Lightroom, and then paying for 
updates to both every 10-18 months. 

The transition from perpetual license to subscription licensing was not, as 
some people opine, to restrict some of the rampant software theft, although it 
does have that as a side effect. The transition services another essential 
need: with the perpetual license financial scheme, a company's income goes 
through a complex cycle of highs and lows depending on when updates for the 
major software products are to be released. This can create havoc with a 
development schedule as, when finances are low, you either have to borrow money 
or let go of personnel to keep the business afloat, and often if you lay off 
temporarily excess personnel, you can't get all of it back when the curve goes 
up. With a subscription license model, you build a user audience at a lower 
total price/profit level per user, but you have a consistent monthly income to 
work with from your installed user base, permitting better planning and more 
incremental development with a consistent personnel staff over time. It makes 
sense as a business model for a company like Adobe (and others who have gone to 
the subscription licensing model). 

I tried ON1 when I was looking for an alternative to LR (to stay away from the 
subscription…) and it managed to thoroughly hork up my image files and 
rendering work rather badly. LR v6.15 perpetual license had, by the 
introduction of MacOS Catalina, so many broken parts I had to do something. 
That was three-four major macOS revisions ago, and there have been enough 
high-value improvements to the macOS revisions (even on my old Mac minis) that 
I'd rather update the OS and deal with what doesn't work in the apps. LR 
Classic has worked well, if not perfectly (nothing is ever "perfect"), and 
updates have been frequent and cost-free beyond the low monthly tithe due. 

The closest thing I've found to a consistent and quality replacement for 
Lightroom (Classic) is/was Apple's Photos app combined with Gentlemen Coders' 
RAW Power. I use that combo about half the time nowadays: for a low cost, RAW 
Power is available for and runs well on all of my computers/devices, and Photos 
is regularly updated, improved with each iteration of the OS as well. But there 
are still things that Lightroom Classic does easily that I haven't found in any 
other package (like easily configurable, maintainable printing templates) with 
the same degree of ease and quality. And at $10/month, the cost is trivial, 
even without using all the bits I don't use. ;)

G
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Re: Lightroom requires a TB??

2023-07-18 Thread Larry Colen



> On Jul 18, 2023, at 9:08 AM, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:
> 
> Am 18.07.23 um 17:02 schrieb Bill:
> 
>> I'd like a Maserati, but I can't afford it. Does this give me the right
>> to steal one?
> 
> Certainly not. But after you've legally bought one and paid the full
> price, they won't take it away from you if you don't keep paying year
> after year. Besides, an acquaintance of mine had one. That thing spent
> more time at the garage than on the road.

The parallel runs a bit deeper, with most new cars you have the option of 
either buying it, or leasing it.  Nominally leasing is a bit less expensive per 
month than purchasing, but at the end of the term, they get the car back.  If 
you are someone who buys a new car every five years, leasing can be a good deal 
to always have a new car.  I'd like to have the option to decide whether to buy 
a permanent license or do the lease/ransomware if I choose. 
> 
> I have paid for Lightroom since their early days and when they pulled
> the plug on LR6 I've changed to ON1. Although they also lure me into
> buying yearly upgrades I don't have to if I don't want to and can still
> go on using it.

I used LR6 until I got trapped in the upgrade cycle of needing to upgrade to a 
version of MacOS that LR6 didn't run on.  I have since moved on to the 
ransomware version of LR.  
On the upside, they have made some significant upgrades since LR6.  As I 
remember, there was a period where it seemed that all of their innovations on 
LR went into moving to ransomware, and possibly some stuff for phones that is 
completely useless to me, and it didn't get any significantly better features.  
The main reason that I stuck with LR was laziness about changing to something 
new, and not being able to find something that worked significantly better for 
me.

> 
> That said, I'm happier with ON1, the noise filter runs circles around LR
> and my photos look better.

That's good to know, I tried ON1 a few years back and it didn't really work for 
me.
I tried to use their feature to import files from Lightroom and it just could 
not handle libraries of any size.  Also, I was doing a lot of panorama 
stitching at the time, and it didn't work as well as LR for that. 

I'm also interested in Darktable, which has the big advantage that it will also 
run on Linux.

But, in the meantime, I just don't have the time or emotional energy to 
research a replacement.

Lately, I've barely had the time to take photos, or process the ones that I 
have taken.

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l...@red4est.com  sent from ret13est



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Re: Lightroom requires a TB??

2023-07-18 Thread Ralf R Radermacher

Am 18.07.23 um 17:02 schrieb Bill:


I'd like a Maserati, but I can't afford it. Does this give me the right
to steal one?


Certainly not. But after you've legally bought one and paid the full
price, they won't take it away from you if you don't keep paying year
after year. Besides, an acquaintance of mine had one. That thing spent
more time at the garage than on the road.

I have paid for Lightroom since their early days and when they pulled
the plug on LR6 I've changed to ON1. Although they also lure me into
buying yearly upgrades I don't have to if I don't want to and can still
go on using it.

That said, I'm happier with ON1, the noise filter runs circles around LR
and my photos look better.

Maybe I'm just old-fashioned. I don't borrow money to buy things and I
prefer to own the things I buy. So, I'm still buying CDs instead of
streaming.

Ralf

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Re: Lightroom requires a TB??

2023-07-18 Thread Bill

On 7/18/2023 8:11 AM, Ralf R Radermacher wrote:

Am 18.07.23 um 15:07 schrieb Bill:


Subscription services seem to be the way of the future.


Either that or you'll only get updates for a year. Still leaves you with
the option of continuing with the older version.

Then again, in many cases there is a new version every year that
includes new or improved functions and you'll upgrade anyhow.

What I hate are schemes like Adobe's where you lose all use of the
software if you don't keep on paying. ("Buy once, pay forever.")
I see your point, but prior to the subscription model, Photoshop was the 
most pirated software of any, with something like 80% or more of 
Photoshop installations being pirated.

Adobe had to do something. They have shareholders to answer to.

I've read the narratives that "I can't afford Photoshop, it's too 
expensive, so they aren't losing money by having me steal it since I 
wouldn't have bought it anyway", and I disagree with them.
Photoshop/Lightroom may be nothing more than an electronic download, but 
there is still an infrastructure behind it.


I'd like a Maserati, but I can't afford it. Does this give me the right 
to steal one?


Software is a consumer product, jut like any other consumer product The 
vendor makes a product, they put a price on it and the consumer has the 
right to buy it or not. They shouldn't have the option to steal it 
because they think it's too expensive.


I don't agree with the decisions of automakers to put heated seats on a 
subscription model, or having to pay by the month to get that extra 
hundred or so horsepower out of your car, but what this means is that I 
won't be buying a BMW or Mercedes Benz any time soon, not that I will 
steal one of those cars.


If Photoshop was too expensive, find a cheaper alternative, don't just 
steal it and make up an excuse for your dishonesty.


I subscribe to Disney+. If I don't pay my subscription fee, I don't have 
a right to complain when they cut off my service.
The same with my monthly internet, electric, gas or phone bills. I 
either pay them monthly or I sit in a dark, cold and quiet house (come 
to think of it, that's what I go on vacation to do).


What I don't get to do is tap into my neighbour's gas line, power 
utility and steal their WiFi.


My internet service is nothing more than electrons or light pulses in 
wires, but I still have to pay by the month to support the 
infrastructure that makes getting those signals to me.


I don't see Adobe's subscription model as anything more than hopefully 
stopping piracy and theft of their product, something they have a duty 
to their shareholders to and to support the infrastructure behind the 
program and allow the company to have the funds to continue to develop 
their software.


As an aside, if you stop paying your Photoshop/Lightroom subscription, 
Photoshop will stop working, but Lightroom will go into read only mode 
and you have a year to clean up any Cloud storage you are using before 
they wipe your files, so it isn't like anyone is being held for ransom.


Photoshop/Lightroom is priced in such a way that it pretty much evens 
out if one was following the former software upgrade path and actually 
buying in rather than downloading a crack key.


bill
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Re: Lightroom requires a TB??

2023-07-18 Thread David J Brooks
On Mon, Jul 17, 2023 at 5:10 PM Rick Womer  wrote:

> I’m using LR Classic on a MacMini with 8 GB of RAM and 494 GB on its SSHD.
> Everything runs fine.
>
> Rick
>

I'm still on standalone version 6 with 4 gig ram :-)

Dave

>
>
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> >
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Re: Lightroom requires a TB??

2023-07-18 Thread Ralf R Radermacher

Am 18.07.23 um 15:07 schrieb Bill:


Subscription services seem to be the way of the future.


Either that or you'll only get updates for a year. Still leaves you with
the option of continuing with the older version.

Then again, in many cases there is a new version every year that
includes new or improved functions and you'll upgrade anyhow.

What I hate are schemes like Adobe's where you lose all use of the
software if you don't keep on paying. ("Buy once, pay forever.")

Ralf

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Re: Lightroom requires a TB??

2023-07-18 Thread Eric Weir


> On Jul 17, 2023, at 2:04 PM, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:
> 
> You can book it with various amounts of cloud storage, icluding a 1 TB
> option.

Thanks, Ralf.

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Decatur, GA  USA
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Re: Lightroom requires a TB??

2023-07-18 Thread Bill

On 7/18/2023 3:23 AM, Eric Weir wrote:

On Jul 17, 2023, at 7:05 PM, Bill  wrote:

Are you sure they aren't trying to set you up with a terabyte of cloud storage?

That’s what it was. A TB is $10 more a month. I went with 20 GB. Probably won’t 
use it.

The website seemed biased toward their cloud-based services.



Subscription services seem to be the way of the future.

bill
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Re: Lightroom requires a TB??

2023-07-18 Thread Eric Weir

> On Jul 17, 2023, at 5:10 PM, Rick Womer  wrote:
> 
> I’m using LR Classic on a MacMini with 8 GB of RAM and 494 GB on its SSHD. 
> Everything runs fine.

That’s about what I have. 8 GB ram/512 GB SSHD.

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Re: Lightroom requires a TB??

2023-07-18 Thread Eric Weir

> On Jul 17, 2023, at 7:05 PM, Bill  wrote:
> 
> Are you sure they aren't trying to set you up with a terabyte of cloud 
> storage?

That’s what it was. A TB is $10 more a month. I went with 20 GB. Probably won’t 
use it.

The website seemed biased toward their cloud-based services.

———
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Atlanta, GA  USA

“It has all been combustion.”

- W.G. Sebald
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Re: Lightroom requires a TB??

2023-07-17 Thread Godfrey DiGiorgi
My main system where I edit thousands of images in LR Classic is a 2019 Mac 
mini with 32G RAM and 1T startup/internal storage drive. My working image file 
repository is a 6T external drive connected to the computer with USB 3.1. 

I think they're recommending you have a 1T storage drive as a minimum, because 
LR Classic does a lot of reading/writing to disk when in operation, but I 
suspect it will work fine with less space if perhaps not as efficiently. I've 
run it using systems that have down to 8G RAM without problems. 

512GB is really not a lot of storage if you're seriously doing a good bit of 
photography these days. A larger external drive for your photo library is 
likely a good idea. 

G

> On Jul 17, 2023, at 10:59 AM, Eric Weir  wrote:
> 
> 
> Finally getting around to signing up for Lightroom. The website indicates a 
> TB of memory is required. A whole TB? Really? I only have 512 GB on my new 
> MBA.
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Re: Lightroom requires a TB??

2023-07-17 Thread Bill

On 7/17/2023 11:59 AM, Eric Weir wrote:

Finally getting around to signing up for Lightroom. The website indicates a TB 
of memory is required. A whole TB? Really? I only have 512 GB on my new MBA


Are you sure they aren't trying to set you up with a terabyte of cloud 
storage?


bill

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Re: Lightroom requires a TB??

2023-07-17 Thread Rick Womer
I’m using LR Classic on a MacMini with 8 GB of RAM and 494 GB on its SSHD. 
Everything runs fine.

Rick

> On Jul 17, 2023, at 1:59 PM, Eric Weir  wrote:
> 
> 
> Finally getting around to signing up for Lightroom. The website indicates a 
> TB of memory is required. A whole TB? Really? I only have 512 GB on my new 
> MBA.
> 
> 
> --
> Eric Weir
> Decatur, GA  USA
> eew...@comcast.net
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> "Our world is a human world." 
> 
> - Hilary Putnam
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Re: Lightroom requires a TB??

2023-07-17 Thread lrc



On July 17, 2023 10:59:34 AM PDT, Eric Weir  wrote:
>
>Finally getting around to signing up for Lightroom. The website indicates a TB 
>of memory is required. A whole TB? Really? I only have 512 GB on my new MBA.

Memory or storage?  

Are you talking Lightroom (for cell phones) or Lightroom classic (for cameras)?
>
>
>--
>Eric Weir
>Decatur, GA  USA
>eew...@comcast.net
>
>"Our world is a human world." 
>
>- Hilary Putnam
>
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Re: Lightroom requires a TB??

2023-07-17 Thread Ralf R Radermacher

Am 17.07.23 um 19:59 schrieb Eric Weir:


Finally getting around to signing up for Lightroom. The website indicates a TB 
of memory is required. A whole TB? Really? I only have 512 GB on my new MBA.


You can book it with various amounts of cloud storage, icluding a 1 TB
option.

Ralf

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Lightroom requires a TB??

2023-07-17 Thread Eric Weir


Finally getting around to signing up for Lightroom. The website indicates a TB 
of memory is required. A whole TB? Really? I only have 512 GB on my new MBA.


--
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA  USA
eew...@comcast.net

"Our world is a human world." 

- Hilary Putnam






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