Re: Why do you shoot?
Taking another go on the subject. Just recently I've been reviewing my pictures from some years ago. Notably, in 2005 Jostein came here and we drove to the forests new Haifa University. I think the place is called Little Switzerland or something like this. Last autumn we had devastating fire that practically turned this place and many others to ashes. Suddenly my pictures gather additional emotional value that I couldn't possibly have thought of 6 years ago. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
On 3/31/2011 19:39, Collin Brendemuehl wrote: So the challenge is this: Make a picture say something. Make it say one word That is, other than Ah or Ooo. A real word. High. Long. Fast. Friend. Love. Charity. Cold. Hot. Soft. Hard. Tomorrow. Yesterday. Win. Lose. Amateur. Professional. Try. Succeed. Fail. Return. Leave. Strong. Weak. Majesty. Humility. Service. Nouns, pronouns, adjectives, adverbs -- they all work. I will sure try. That's going to be most interesting thing to try to achieve. As for your original question, Collin. Here is my answer. One sentence: I shoot, 'cause I like shooting. More than one sentence: I find photography to be excellent outlet or a leverage to my otherwise very routine and well-defined living. Especially so my profession which is programming. So I don't try to adhere to mantras or rules or what not. I just shoot what I see and find worth taking pictures of and I do so for fun. With time I realized that I don't like to compete (official competitions or otherwise). I just have fun during the process and while watching the results. Also I do so together with my elder daughter Galia which is immense fun as it is. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
I'm sure you realize it, but I have to say, you're sincerely lucky for such a beautiful relationship with Galia! Jack --- On Mon, 4/4/11, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: From: Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Why do you shoot? To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Date: Monday, April 4, 2011, 8:37 AM On 3/31/2011 19:39, Collin Brendemuehl wrote: So the challenge is this: Make a picture say something. Make it say one word That is, other than Ah or Ooo. A real word. High. Long. Fast. Friend. Love. Charity. Cold. Hot. Soft. Hard. Tomorrow. Yesterday. Win. Lose. Amateur. Professional. Try. Succeed. Fail. Return. Leave. Strong. Weak. Majesty. Humility. Service. Nouns, pronouns, adjectives, adverbs -- they all work. I will sure try. That's going to be most interesting thing to try to achieve. As for your original question, Collin. Here is my answer. One sentence: I shoot, 'cause I like shooting. More than one sentence: I find photography to be excellent outlet or a leverage to my otherwise very routine and well-defined living. Especially so my profession which is programming. So I don't try to adhere to mantras or rules or what not. I just shoot what I see and find worth taking pictures of and I do so for fun. With time I realized that I don't like to compete (official competitions or otherwise). I just have fun during the process and while watching the results. Also I do so together with my elder daughter Galia which is immense fun as it is. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
On Apr 4, 2011, at 8:44 AM, Jack Davis wrote: I'm sure you realize it, but I have to say, you're sincerely lucky for such a beautiful relationship with Galia! I think Boris makes his own good luck in that regard. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
On 4/4/2011 22:47, Larry Colen wrote: On Apr 4, 2011, at 8:44 AM, Jack Davis wrote: I'm sure you realize it, but I have to say, you're sincerely lucky for such a beautiful relationship with Galia! I think Boris makes his own good luck in that regard. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est Guilty as charged, most or less on both counts. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
From: Ann Sanfedele If it is a dark and stormy night and I take a photo of it, is that a cliche? :-) Only if you're a beagle sitting on top of a doghouse typing it on a typewriter. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3547 - Release Date: 04/02/11 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
What novel really started like this? On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 10:15 AM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: From: Ann Sanfedele If it is a dark and stormy night and I take a photo of it, is that a cliche? :-) Only if you're a beagle sitting on top of a doghouse typing it on a typewriter. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3547 - Release Date: 04/02/11 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Steve Desjardins -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
An 1830 novel called Paul Clifford by Edward Bulwer-Lytton ann (of course I couldn't remember - google is our friend) Steven Desjardins wrote: What novel really started like this? On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 10:15 AM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: From: Ann Sanfedele If it is a dark and stormy night and I take a photo of it, is that a cliche? :-) Only if you're a beagle sitting on top of a doghouse typing it on a typewriter. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3547 - Release Date: 04/02/11 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
Of course, it wasn't a cliche back in 1830. A similar line also appears in an old Marine drinking song: Twas a dark and stormy night, not a star was there in sight All the Mustangs were tied down to the line When a lonely volunteer stood in mud up to his ear He'd orders to fly old Number Nine. Well, his back was racked with pain as he climbed into the plane A lonely tear was forming in his eye And he offered up a prayer as he climbed into the air He knew this would be his night to die. As he flew o'er Hagaru he let loose a bomb or two And he figured that he ought to call it quits But how was he to know that he's fly so doggone low That the bomb blast would blow his plane to bits. In the wreckage he was found, thinly spread around the ground The Crunchies, they raised his weary head With his lifetime almost spent here's the message that he sent To the buddies who'd be sad to see him dead. I used an eight to ten delay, but it didn't work that way Without a tail a Mustang doesn't fly Tell the Skipper now for me, he's got only twenty-three He can roll up the ladder, Semper Fi. Old Number Nine, by Oscar Brand On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Ann Sanfedele ann...@nyc.rr.com wrote: An 1830 novel called Paul Clifford by Edward Bulwer-Lytton ann (of course I couldn't remember - google is our friend) Steven Desjardins wrote: What novel really started like this? On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 10:15 AM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: From: Ann Sanfedele If it is a dark and stormy night and I take a photo of it, is that a cliche? :-) Only if you're a beagle sitting on top of a doghouse typing it on a typewriter. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3547 - Release Date: 04/02/11 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Why do you shoot?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bulwer-Lytton,_1st_Baron_Lytton What novel really started like this? On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 10:15 AM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: From: Ann Sanfedele If it is a dark and stormy night and I take a photo of it, is that a cliche? :-) Only if you're a beagle sitting on top of a doghouse typing it on a typewriter. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3547 - Release Date: 04/02/11 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Steve Desjardins -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
The first novel I ever actually read that started with this line was A Wrinkle in Time. I never even heard of the other one until I googled it once. On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 12:22 PM, Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bulwer-Lytton,_1st_Baron_Lytton What novel really started like this? On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 10:15 AM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: From: Ann Sanfedele If it is a dark and stormy night and I take a photo of it, is that a cliche? :-) Only if you're a beagle sitting on top of a doghouse typing it on a typewriter. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3547 - Release Date: 04/02/11 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Steve Desjardins -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Steve Desjardins -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
Apparently Washington Irving used the line earlier (1809) but I dont' know if it was the first line of a novel. Once a young man gave me a short story he wrote for my input... it started It was a dark rainy night in december.. sigh. ann Steven Desjardins wrote: The first novel I ever actually read that started with this line was A Wrinkle in Time. I never even heard of the other one until I googled it once. On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 12:22 PM, Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bulwer-Lytton,_1st_Baron_Lytton What novel really started like this? On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 10:15 AM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: From: Ann Sanfedele If it is a dark and stormy night and I take a photo of it, is that a cliche? :-) Only if you're a beagle sitting on top of a doghouse typing it on a typewriter. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3547 - Release Date: 04/02/11 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Steve Desjardins -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
On 2011-04-02 3:26, mike wilson wrote: On 02/04/2011 04:24, William Robb wrote: On 01/04/2011 7:04 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote: Bill, Mark Cassino was kinder to me. I didn't feel like I was totally worthless, but he showed me the potential for what was there. Please don't misunderstand, Tom is very gracious about it. Being graciously pounded into the deck is a much better feeling than the offhand destruction some people practise. A lawyer once told me: My job is to tell people to go to Hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
On 2011-04-03 11:38, Ann Sanfedele wrote: An 1830 novel called Paul Clifford by Edward Bulwer-Lytton And thus the annual Bulwer-Lytton award for the cheesiest opening line for a novel. Some the creations are amazing. -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
OORAH ! Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: Daniel J. Matyola danmaty...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Why do you shoot? Of course, it wasn't a cliche back in 1830. A similar line also appears in an old Marine drinking song: Twas a dark and stormy night, not a star was there in sight All the Mustangs were tied down to the line When a lonely volunteer stood in mud up to his ear He'd orders to fly old Number Nine. Well, his back was racked with pain as he climbed into the plane A lonely tear was forming in his eye And he offered up a prayer as he climbed into the air He knew this would be his night to die. As he flew o'er Hagaru he let loose a bomb or two And he figured that he ought to call it quits But how was he to know that he's fly so doggone low That the bomb blast would blow his plane to bits. In the wreckage he was found, thinly spread around the ground The Crunchies, they raised his weary head With his lifetime almost spent here's the message that he sent To the buddies who'd be sad to see him dead. I used an eight to ten delay, but it didn't work that way Without a tail a Mustang doesn't fly Tell the Skipper now for me, he's got only twenty-three He can roll up the ladder, Semper Fi. Old Number Nine, by Oscar Brand On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Ann Sanfedele ann...@nyc.rr.com wrote: An 1830 novel called Paul Clifford by Edward Bulwer-Lytton ann (of course I couldn't remember - google is our friend) Steven Desjardins wrote: What novel really started like this? On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 10:15 AM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: From: Ann Sanfedele If it is a dark and stormy night and I take a photo of it, is that a cliche? :-) Only if you're a beagle sitting on top of a doghouse typing it on a typewriter. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
On 31/03/2011 20:37, Collin Brendemuehl wrote: Sorry about the rant, but cliche images bother me deeply. Why does what other people choose to shoot bother you? It's not the what. It's the why. And it's not a moral response. Per the rest of my statement, its a longing to see people do so much more. A thing of beauty is a joy forever but a cliche wears thin in a minute. Not correct as a generalised statement. There are (probably/possibly) many people who: a. can enjoy a cliched image for an extended time b. prefer a cliched image Now if people are happy shooting pretty flowers, that just fine. My desire is for people to do, at a minimum, better flowers. Your defenition of better is? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why Do You Shoot
On 31/03/2011 23:02, Jack Davis wrote: It's a glandular sense of the relative element positioning and spacial relationships within the frame. Mark! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why Do You Shoot
On 01/04/2011 00:47, Bob W wrote: It's a glandular sense of the relative element positioning and spacial relationships within the frame. M! Rats! That's what I get for being a day or so behind. Great minds..., though. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
On 02/04/2011 04:24, William Robb wrote: On 01/04/2011 7:04 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote: Bill, Mark Cassino was kinder to me. I didn't feel like I was totally worthless, but he showed me the potential for what was there. Please don't misunderstand, Tom is very gracious about it. Being graciously pounded into the deck is a much better feeling than the offhand destruction some people practise. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
Something becomes a cliche because most people like it. Many Shakespearean lines, taken out of context, are now cliches. In their original context, however, they remain as powerful as ever. Dan -- Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 2:47 AM, mike wilson m.9.wil...@ntlworld.com wrote: On 31/03/2011 20:37, Collin Brendemuehl wrote: Sorry about the rant, but cliche images bother me deeply. Why does what other people choose to shoot bother you? It's not the what. It's the why. And it's not a moral response. Per the rest of my statement, its a longing to see people do so much more. A thing of beauty is a joy forever but a cliche wears thin in a minute. Not correct as a generalised statement. There are (probably/possibly) many people who: a. can enjoy a cliched image for an extended time b. prefer a cliched image -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why Do You Shoot
Clever, Mike! Jack --- On Fri, 4/1/11, mike wilson m.9.wil...@ntlworld.com wrote: From: mike wilson m.9.wil...@ntlworld.com Subject: Re: Why Do You Shoot To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Date: Friday, April 1, 2011, 11:50 PM On 31/03/2011 23:02, Jack Davis wrote: It's a glandular sense of the relative element positioning and spacial relationships within the frame. Mark! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
Good example. On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 8:10 AM, Daniel J. Matyola danmaty...@gmail.com wrote: Something becomes a cliche because most people like it. Many Shakespearean lines, taken out of context, are now cliches. In their original context, however, they remain as powerful as ever. Dan -- Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 2:47 AM, mike wilson m.9.wil...@ntlworld.com wrote: On 31/03/2011 20:37, Collin Brendemuehl wrote: Sorry about the rant, but cliche images bother me deeply. Why does what other people choose to shoot bother you? It's not the what. It's the why. And it's not a moral response. Per the rest of my statement, its a longing to see people do so much more. A thing of beauty is a joy forever but a cliche wears thin in a minute. Not correct as a generalised statement. There are (probably/possibly) many people who: a. can enjoy a cliched image for an extended time b. prefer a cliched image -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Steve Desjardins -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
On 11-04-01 1:17 AM, William Robb wrote: I like looking at pretty women. Amen to that. -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
I wonder if photographing cliche subjects is akin to musicians playing the standards. Just as I've lost track of how many pictures I've seen (or taken) of sunsets, pretty flowers or waves crashing at the beach, I have no idea how many times I've heard Summertime, St. James Infirmary, or fever. Yet, every so often, someone will do a version that's almost like hearing a brand new song. I'm not a big fan of piano music, especially as the lead, or solo, instrument. But, I think it was Oscar Peterson that did a (mostly) piano version of Summertime, that the first time a DJ played it at a dance, I was totally blown away. Alternatively, are they more like wines? There are people who may not notice, or if they did notice, may not care about the differences between a bottle of Gallo hearty zinfandel, and a forty year old Bordeaux, in the same way that others might look at something as just another picture of a flower. It's certainly a subject that is fodder for nearly unlimited intellectual wankage. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
I like looking at pretty women. How cliche. -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Steve Desjardins -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
Look at it this way. Every year people plant flowers in their yard because they enjoy seeing the flowers. Cliche implies a tiredness with something familiar, and some things never get tired. I laughed at Bill's comment about pretty women, but it's actually a perfect example. On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 8:09 AM, Steven Desjardins drd1...@gmail.com wrote: I like looking at pretty women. How cliche. -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Steve Desjardins -- Steve Desjardins -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
My job (pediatric oncologist) shows me lots of the pain and unfairness in life, and the ugliness of the world is constantly on display in the news. Photography helps me to slow down, and to look for and see the beauty in life and the world. I made about 1400 exposures during my trip to Paris, and have posted fewer than 50 pix here. That's about my usual ratio. I post the ones I like, and it's always interesting to see how others respond to them. Rick http://photo.net/photos/RickW --- On Thu, 3/31/11, Collin Brendemuehl coll...@brendemuehl.net wrote: From: Collin Brendemuehl coll...@brendemuehl.net Subject: Why do you shoot? To: pdml pdml@pdml.net Date: Thursday, March 31, 2011, 1:39 PM Tim just gave us some pretty macro flower pics. A lot of people will like them. I enjoy them as well and even really liked a couple. But as someone said a couple of weeks ago, the more seriously he takes his photography the less he shoots. The question is: How do we better our photography and get past cliche images? Can we take it more seriously without falling into either the trap of elitism or the trap of demanding a certain level of commitment from others? (That's the motivation behind my recent technical criticisms. We can do better without burning ourselves out.) I think about the retirement home with little old ladies taking oil paint lessons so that they can do still life paintings of daisies. I wonder how many of us have nothing better in our imagination than warm fuzzies. And I think Tim senses some of this with the sarcasm in his title about beating us to a bloody pulp with these cliche images. In 2D art one can hardly get more cliche than pretty flowers. So the challenge is this: Make a picture say something. Make it say one word That is, other than Ah or Ooo. A real word. High. Long. Fast. Friend. Love. Charity. Cold. Hot. Soft. Hard. Tomorrow. Yesterday. Win. Lose. Amateur. Professional. Try. Succeed. Fail. Return. Leave. Strong. Weak. Majesty. Humility. Service. Nouns, pronouns, adjectives, adverbs -- they all work. This can help you when you take pictures at kids baseball games or at a wedding. Capture more than just the people. Get their faces, their hands, their interactions with each other and the world around them, their full expressions. That's what makes the Ali(Wasn't he still C. Clay at the time) v Liston picture so special. http://www.sportsmemorabilia.com/sports-products/muhammad-ali-framed-8x10-photo---ali-over-sonny-liston.html Sorry about the rant, but cliche images bother me deeply. Sincerely, Collin Brendemuehl http://kerygmainstitute.org He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose -- Jim Elliott -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
Photography, paintings, music, and the arts in general offer us a way to move away from the uglyness in our everyday lives to something more attractive. I don't mind seeing pretty cliches or seeing the joy in Paul's grandaughter's eyes. It's a wonderful thing to share. I remember Monet's many haystack paintings. If an 'old master' can tackle the same subject again and again, who am I to say no to trying to shoot spring again this season. And the pdml and it's members can be devious. Shooting side-by-side with others can show you just how good your work could be. It can inspire you to greater care and taking your effort to the next level. Regards, Bob S. On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Rick Womer rwomer1...@yahoo.com wrote: My job (pediatric oncologist) shows me lots of the pain and unfairness in life, and the ugliness of the world is constantly on display in the news. Photography helps me to slow down, and to look for and see the beauty in life and the world. I made about 1400 exposures during my trip to Paris, and have posted fewer than 50 pix here. That's about my usual ratio. I post the ones I like, and it's always interesting to see how others respond to them. Rick http://photo.net/photos/RickW --- On Thu, 3/31/11, Collin Brendemuehl coll...@brendemuehl.net wrote: From: Collin Brendemuehl coll...@brendemuehl.net Subject: Why do you shoot? To: pdml pdml@pdml.net Date: Thursday, March 31, 2011, 1:39 PM Tim just gave us some pretty macro flower pics. A lot of people will like them. I enjoy them as well and even really liked a couple. But as someone said a couple of weeks ago, the more seriously he takes his photography the less he shoots. The question is: How do we better our photography and get past cliche images? Can we take it more seriously without falling into either the trap of elitism or the trap of demanding a certain level of commitment from others? (That's the motivation behind my recent technical criticisms. We can do better without burning ourselves out.) I think about the retirement home with little old ladies taking oil paint lessons so that they can do still life paintings of daisies. I wonder how many of us have nothing better in our imagination than warm fuzzies. And I think Tim senses some of this with the sarcasm in his title about beating us to a bloody pulp with these cliche images. In 2D art one can hardly get more cliche than pretty flowers. So the challenge is this: Make a picture say something. Make it say one word That is, other than Ah or Ooo. A real word. High. Long. Fast. Friend. Love. Charity. Cold. Hot. Soft. Hard. Tomorrow. Yesterday. Win. Lose. Amateur. Professional. Try. Succeed. Fail. Return. Leave. Strong. Weak. Majesty. Humility. Service. Nouns, pronouns, adjectives, adverbs -- they all work. This can help you when you take pictures at kids baseball games or at a wedding. Capture more than just the people. Get their faces, their hands, their interactions with each other and the world around them, their full expressions. That's what makes the Ali(Wasn't he still C. Clay at the time) v Liston picture so special. http://www.sportsmemorabilia.com/sports-products/muhammad-ali-framed-8x10-photo---ali-over-sonny-liston.html Sorry about the rant, but cliche images bother me deeply. Sincerely, Collin Brendemuehl http://kerygmainstitute.org He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose -- Jim Elliott -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
Ditto again!! -p On 3/31/2011 9:59 PM, Ann Sanfedele wrote: Christine Aguila wrote: - Original Message - From: Paul Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net There's one thing I never do. I never consider whether or not someone else might consider my choice of subject matter to be cliched. I don't give a damn if they do. Hear, hear! Cheers, Christine Ditto ann -- Being old doesn't seem so old now that I'm old. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
Photographically, I am still struggling to rise to the level of cliche. -- Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
Mark! --- On Fri, 4/1/11, Daniel J. Matyola danmaty...@gmail.com wrote: Photographically, I am still struggling to rise to the level of cliche. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
Thanks to Collin for launching this... but am still totally gonna still-life some defenseless daisies. Having said that, I was talking this over with a friend yesterday, and realized that I do have one hidden agenda. It makes me especially happy when I can publish a photo that surprises people. Something they've never seen before, nor would have imagined. I admire people like KnarFrank who have a style and idiom and excel within it, but I couldn't do that in a million years. -T On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 9:34 AM, Rick Womer rwomer1...@yahoo.com wrote: Mark! --- On Fri, 4/1/11, Daniel J. Matyola danmaty...@gmail.com wrote: Photographically, I am still struggling to rise to the level of cliche. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
I also thank Collin for the thought-provoking post. I think we know what you mean by cliche images but I disagree with the concept entirely. I think what you call cliche images might more readily be called obvious beauty. Sunsets, flowers, cute babies, etc. They are likely subjects that we all notice and want to capture. They are almost empirically beautiful and it may be hard not to be attracted to photograph them. However, there is a difference between noticing obvious beauty and capturing it well. Frankly, I think that if we are going to condemn artists for capturing obvious beauty, then we probably need to condemn Ansel Adams for taking another damn photo of a mountain (or other landscape) or stone Georgia O'Keefe for choosing to do a painting of yet another damn flower. I think that is silly. You could spend your whole life just getting better at photographing one genre of obvious beauty, if you chose to do so. Now where I think Collin provides some inspiration and food for thought is in challenging us to extend our vision beyond obvious beauty, or perhaps leaving beauty altogether. One way that I like to challenge my eye is to go somewhere without obvious beauty and then try to find some by working only with the lines, shapes and colors that are there. Collin's theme suggestion is another good way to stretch one's eye/vision/execution. That would be my spin on Collin's word: Take out cliche images and replace it with obvious beauty and allow people to start there or stay there, if they so choose - but also consider growing/expanding your subjects. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
Thanks to Collin for launching this... but am still totally gonna still-life some defenseless daisies. Go ahead. Put 'em out of their misery! :-) Sincerely, Collin Brendemuehl http://kerygmainstitute.org He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose -- Jim Elliott -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
Well said, Darren! Several years ago, the owner a local gallery in which I had a number of images hanging, ordered (with a smile) me to quit being so damned artsy and shoot a sunset. Told him I've always considered sunsets a cheap shot and I was beyond cliches. One evening I ran into one that I took the time to shoot. I've always felt it acceptable to sign and hang in a retail display and it's out sold any other picture. It's now the background image for an ale bottled in Northern California. The brewery owner is prepared to buy exclusive rights to that image as well as a couple of others sometime later. It's not all about $$, but, as I stated above, I'm esthetically pleased with the image. In every case it's all about the total setting and lighting. Jack --- On Fri, 4/1/11, Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com wrote: From: Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Why do you shoot? To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Date: Friday, April 1, 2011, 11:12 AM I also thank Collin for the thought-provoking post. I think we know what you mean by cliche images but I disagree with the concept entirely. I think what you call cliche images might more readily be called obvious beauty. Sunsets, flowers, cute babies, etc. They are likely subjects that we all notice and want to capture. They are almost empirically beautiful and it may be hard not to be attracted to photograph them. However, there is a difference between noticing obvious beauty and capturing it well. Frankly, I think that if we are going to condemn artists for capturing obvious beauty, then we probably need to condemn Ansel Adams for taking another damn photo of a mountain (or other landscape) or stone Georgia O'Keefe for choosing to do a painting of yet another damn flower. I think that is silly. You could spend your whole life just getting better at photographing one genre of obvious beauty, if you chose to do so. Now where I think Collin provides some inspiration and food for thought is in challenging us to extend our vision beyond obvious beauty, or perhaps leaving beauty altogether. One way that I like to challenge my eye is to go somewhere without obvious beauty and then try to find some by working only with the lines, shapes and colors that are there. Collin's theme suggestion is another good way to stretch one's eye/vision/execution. That would be my spin on Collin's word: Take out cliche images and replace it with obvious beauty and allow people to start there or stay there, if they so choose - but also consider growing/expanding your subjects. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
The moral of the story is cliche sells ! Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: Jack Davis jdavi...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: Why do you shoot? Well said, Darren! Several years ago, the owner a local gallery in which I had a number of images hanging, ordered (with a smile) me to quit being so damned artsy and shoot a sunset. Told him I've always considered sunsets a cheap shot and I was beyond cliches. One evening I ran into one that I took the time to shoot. I've always felt it acceptable to sign and hang in a retail display and it's out sold any other picture. It's now the background image for an ale bottled in Northern California. The brewery owner is prepared to buy exclusive rights to that image as well as a couple of others sometime later. It's not all about $$, but, as I stated above, I'm esthetically pleased with the image. In every case it's all about the total setting and lighting. Jack --- On Fri, 4/1/11, Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com wrote: From: Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Why do you shoot? To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Date: Friday, April 1, 2011, 11:12 AM I also thank Collin for the thought-provoking post. I think we know what you mean by cliche images but I disagree with the concept entirely. I think what you call cliche images might more readily be called obvious beauty. Sunsets, flowers, cute babies, etc. They are likely subjects that we all notice and want to capture. They are almost empirically beautiful and it may be hard not to be attracted to photograph them. However, there is a difference between noticing obvious beauty and capturing it well. Frankly, I think that if we are going to condemn artists for capturing obvious beauty, then we probably need to condemn Ansel Adams for taking another damn photo of a mountain (or other landscape) or stone Georgia O'Keefe for choosing to do a painting of yet another damn flower. I think that is silly. You could spend your whole life just getting better at photographing one genre of obvious beauty, if you chose to do so. Now where I think Collin provides some inspiration and food for thought is in challenging us to extend our vision beyond obvious beauty, or perhaps leaving beauty altogether. One way that I like to challenge my eye is to go somewhere without obvious beauty and then try to find some by working only with the lines, shapes and colors that are there. Collin's theme suggestion is another good way to stretch one's eye/vision/execution. That would be my spin on Collin's word: Take out cliche images and replace it with obvious beauty and allow people to start there or stay there, if they so choose - but also consider growing/expanding your subjects. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
On 01/04/2011 6:09 AM, Steven Desjardins wrote: I like looking at pretty women. How cliche. Some cliches surpass themselves. -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
On 01/04/2011 9:10 AM, Bob Sullivan wrote: And the pdml and it's members can be devious. Shooting side-by-side with others can show you just how good your work could be. It can inspire you to greater care and taking your effort to the next level. I find shooting with Tom Cakalic does that to me. Or more to the point, it shows me how bad my work actually is, and makes me wonder why I even bother. -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
Do you mean cleavage? 8) Jack --- On Fri, 4/1/11, William Robb anotherdrunken...@gmail.com wrote: From: William Robb anotherdrunken...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Why do you shoot? To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Date: Friday, April 1, 2011, 4:51 PM On 01/04/2011 6:09 AM, Steven Desjardins wrote: I like looking at pretty women. How cliche. Some cliches surpass themselves. -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. 8) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
Bill, Mark Cassino was kinder to me. I didn't feel like I was totally worthless, but he showed me the potential for what was there. Regards, Bob S. On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 6:53 PM, William Robb anotherdrunken...@gmail.com wrote: On 01/04/2011 9:10 AM, Bob Sullivan wrote: And the pdml and it's members can be devious. Shooting side-by-side with others can show you just how good your work could be. It can inspire you to greater care and taking your effort to the next level. I find shooting with Tom Cakalic does that to me. Or more to the point, it shows me how bad my work actually is, and makes me wonder why I even bother. -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Why do you shoot?
Apart from family shots, I do try to avoid clichés, but even then if the light is particularly striking, I will still go for it. For what I think is my 'real' photography (that's excluding the aforesaid family stuff!), my motivation falls into one of several sources: something catches my eye, such as some amazing graffiti in my neighbourhood, there is a documentary project such as the post-flood reconstruction images I'm working on currently, or it's all about the light, where the light _is_ the subject. My April 'Memories of Kodachrome' PUG entry falls into the latter category, as it was entirely motivated by having seen the same scene many times under different lighting, but recognising that there would be a striking image if the light happened to be just so. Often working on improving on the last effort on a topic doesn't work, but I think constantly trying to improve on that last effort in whichever category can only help to make me a better photographer. John Coyle Brisbane, Australia -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Darren Addy Sent: Saturday, 2 April 2011 4:12 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Why do you shoot? I also thank Collin for the thought-provoking post. I think we know what you mean by cliche images but I disagree with the concept entirely. I think what you call cliche images might more readily be called obvious beauty. Sunsets, flowers, cute babies, etc. They are likely subjects that we all notice and want to capture. They are almost empirically beautiful and it may be hard not to be attracted to photograph them. However, there is a difference between noticing obvious beauty and capturing it well. Frankly, I think that if we are going to condemn artists for capturing obvious beauty, then we probably need to condemn Ansel Adams for taking another damn photo of a mountain (or other landscape) or stone Georgia O'Keefe for choosing to do a painting of yet another damn flower. I think that is silly. You could spend your whole life just getting better at photographing one genre of obvious beauty, if you chose to do so. Now where I think Collin provides some inspiration and food for thought is in challenging us to extend our vision beyond obvious beauty, or perhaps leaving beauty altogether. One way that I like to challenge my eye is to go somewhere without obvious beauty and then try to find some by working only with the lines, shapes and colors that are there. Collin's theme suggestion is another good way to stretch one's eye/vision/execution. That would be my spin on Collin's word: Take out cliche images and replace it with obvious beauty and allow people to start there or stay there, if they so choose - but also consider growing/expanding your subjects. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
On 01/04/2011 7:04 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote: Bill, Mark Cassino was kinder to me. I didn't feel like I was totally worthless, but he showed me the potential for what was there. Please don't misunderstand, Tom is very gracious about it. -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
I think many/most/all of my bird shots are cliche, or at least are attempts to rise to that level. However. I was just reading the Forward to a new edition of a Roger Tory Peterson Guide. The Forward by his son comments that RTP had the talent to not only paint lovely pictures of robins, but to have those paintings show the essence of Robin. Whatever the subject, that is what I would like to be able to do with photography. stan Sent from my iPhone On Apr 1, 2011, at 1:12 PM, Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com wrote: I also thank Collin for the thought-provoking post. I think we know what you mean by cliche images but I disagree with the concept entirely. I think what you call cliche images might more readily be called obvious beauty. Sunsets, flowers, cute babies, etc. They are likely subjects that we all notice and want to capture. They are almost empirically beautiful and it may be hard not to be attracted to photograph them. However, there is a difference between noticing obvious beauty and capturing it well. Frankly, I think that if we are going to condemn artists for capturing obvious beauty, then we probably need to condemn Ansel Adams for taking another damn photo of a mountain (or other landscape) or stone Georgia O'Keefe for choosing to do a painting of yet another damn flower. I think that is silly. You could spend your whole life just getting better at photographing one genre of obvious beauty, if you chose to do so. Now where I think Collin provides some inspiration and food for thought is in challenging us to extend our vision beyond obvious beauty, or perhaps leaving beauty altogether. One way that I like to challenge my eye is to go somewhere without obvious beauty and then try to find some by working only with the lines, shapes and colors that are there. Collin's theme suggestion is another good way to stretch one's eye/vision/execution. That would be my spin on Collin's word: Take out cliche images and replace it with obvious beauty and allow people to start there or stay there, if they so choose - but also consider growing/expanding your subjects. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
If it is a dark and stormy night and I take a photo of it, is that a cliche? :-) Late to the discussion but really, I don't think any subject in and of itself is a cliche . It is the manner in which it is presented that raises it above the ordinary when the person writing, painting, photographing, etc. does it wonderfully. There is a line in a film that a woman says - and I cant remember the film or the speaker but the line is about someone being the very best of a type does this ring a bell with anyone? Ummm it _might_ be from Gigi or umm Pygmalion in one of it's incarnations? and I love a really wonderful bird photo any day of the week... ann Stan Halpin wrote: I think many/most/all of my bird shots are cliche, or at least are attempts to rise to that level. However. I was just reading the Forward to a new edition of a Roger Tory Peterson Guide. The Forward by his son comments that RTP had the talent to not only paint lovely pictures of robins, but to have those paintings show the essence of Robin. Whatever the subject, that is what I would like to be able to do with photography. stan Sent from my iPhone On Apr 1, 2011, at 1:12 PM, Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com wrote: I also thank Collin for the thought-provoking post. I think we know what you mean by cliche images but I disagree with the concept entirely. I think what you call cliche images might more readily be called obvious beauty. Sunsets, flowers, cute babies, etc. They are likely subjects that we all notice and want to capture. They are almost empirically beautiful and it may be hard not to be attracted to photograph them. However, there is a difference between noticing obvious beauty and capturing it well. Frankly, I think that if we are going to condemn artists for capturing obvious beauty, then we probably need to condemn Ansel Adams for taking another damn photo of a mountain (or other landscape) or stone Georgia O'Keefe for choosing to do a painting of yet another damn flower. I think that is silly. You could spend your whole life just getting better at photographing one genre of obvious beauty, if you chose to do so. Now where I think Collin provides some inspiration and food for thought is in challenging us to extend our vision beyond obvious beauty, or perhaps leaving beauty altogether. One way that I like to challenge my eye is to go somewhere without obvious beauty and then try to find some by working only with the lines, shapes and colors that are there. Collin's theme suggestion is another good way to stretch one's eye/vision/execution. That would be my spin on Collin's word: Take out cliche images and replace it with obvious beauty and allow people to start there or stay there, if they so choose - but also consider growing/expanding your subjects. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 05:39:51PM +, Collin Brendemuehl wrote: Sorry about the rant, but cliche images bother me deeply. Why does what other people choose to shoot bother you? Almost everything I photograph produces cliche images. I'm not a photographer(tm) - I'm a person who happens to enjoy taking photographs, and who values them mostly based on the memories (or ideas) they evoke, rather than on any artistic or technical merit. There are several other people on the list whose subjects don't do anything for me, and more than a few whose personal choice of style doesn't speak to me. But that's a personal thing between me and the photographers in question; it's obvious that many of the other folks here have a different viewpoint. Even photographs that I personally dislike are, generally speaking, technically well executed - I'd probably have more of an issue if images were over-processed. Fortunately that rarely happens here. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
Sorry about the rant, but cliche images bother me deeply. Why does what other people choose to shoot bother you? It's not the what. It's the why. And it's not a moral response. Per the rest of my statement, its a longing to see people do so much more. A thing of beauty is a joy forever but a cliche wears thin in a minute. Now if people are happy shooting pretty flowers, that just fine. My desire is for people to do, at a minimum, better flowers. Sincerely, Collin Brendemuehl http://kerygmainstitute.org He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose -- Jim Elliott -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
I've been thinking a lot about this very subject. I've got a lot of things that I ought to be spending my time and money on, but I've been spending them on photography. On one level, I think I take pictures to get better at photography. It's almost a zen thing. On another level, I've been learning a lot of humility lately in all of the other areas that I used to think I was good at. The bar for impressing non-photographers with your photography is really pretty low. I know that most of my photos are mediocre, and most of the people on this list do too, but compared to most of the crap that most people shoot, it's pretty good, so it's an easy way to get people to say nice things about me. On Mar 31, 2011, at 10:39 AM, Collin Brendemuehl wrote: Tim just gave us some pretty macro flower pics. A lot of people will like them. I enjoy them as well and even really liked a couple. But as someone said a couple of weeks ago, the more seriously he takes his photography the less he shoots. Actually, I said that the more professional style work I do, the less that I do for fun. By professional style, I meant photography for other people, of the sort that people often (used to) get paid for. The question is: How do we better our photography and get past cliche images? Can we take it more seriously without falling into either the trap of elitism or the trap of demanding a certain level of commitment from others? (That's the motivation behind my recent technical criticisms. We can do better without burning ourselves out.) I think of flower photos as candy. Pleasant, but not generally substantial, and just fine in moderation. When it gets down to it, I guess that my mushroom photos are also technically flower photos too. One way of getting around the cliche is that while a photo of a flower is cliche, when juxtaposed with other subjects, they're no longer cliche. A flower arrangement in the engine compartment of a hot rod, a beautiful flower being held by a street beggar, the stem of a rose in the barrel of a gun (at least it wasn't a cliche when it was first done). Sorry about the rant, but cliche images bother me deeply. Cliche images only really bother me when I find myself relying on them too much, in general, they just bore me. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
I am obviously going to have to do some still-life images of daisies. But I think you're maybe overthinking it. I am not a professional photographer nor do my efforts reach the level where the term art is applicable. Owning cameras pleases me. Looking around me and photographing things I think deserve it pleases me. Editing photos pleases me. Pushing back boundaries such as low light, tricky focus, moving targets, and candid street photography pleases me. Seeing the edited photos nicely presented on a high-quality screen pleases me. When my pictures give pleasure to others, that pleases me a whole lot. Looking at other peoples' photos here pleases me. The proportion that do so is much less than 100% but plenty high enough to keep me coming back. Photos which obviously partake of cliche probably please a lower proportion of people here than those which are in some sense more serious. But a little eye candy never hurt anyone. -Tim On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Collin Brendemuehl coll...@brendemuehl.net wrote: Tim just gave us some pretty macro flower pics. A lot of people will like them. I enjoy them as well and even really liked a couple. But as someone said a couple of weeks ago, the more seriously he takes his photography the less he shoots. The question is: How do we better our photography and get past cliche images? Can we take it more seriously without falling into either the trap of elitism or the trap of demanding a certain level of commitment from others? (That's the motivation behind my recent technical criticisms. We can do better without burning ourselves out.) I think about the retirement home with little old ladies taking oil paint lessons so that they can do still life paintings of daisies. I wonder how many of us have nothing better in our imagination than warm fuzzies. And I think Tim senses some of this with the sarcasm in his title about beating us to a bloody pulp with these cliche images. In 2D art one can hardly get more cliche than pretty flowers. So the challenge is this: Make a picture say something. Make it say one word That is, other than Ah or Ooo. A real word. High. Long. Fast. Friend. Love. Charity. Cold. Hot. Soft. Hard. Tomorrow. Yesterday. Win. Lose. Amateur. Professional. Try. Succeed. Fail. Return. Leave. Strong. Weak. Majesty. Humility. Service. Nouns, pronouns, adjectives, adverbs -- they all work. This can help you when you take pictures at kids baseball games or at a wedding. Capture more than just the people. Get their faces, their hands, their interactions with each other and the world around them, their full expressions. That's what makes the Ali(Wasn't he still C. Clay at the time) v Liston picture so special. http://www.sportsmemorabilia.com/sports-products/muhammad-ali-framed-8x10-photo---ali-over-sonny-liston.html Sorry about the rant, but cliche images bother me deeply. Sincerely, Collin Brendemuehl http://kerygmainstitute.org He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose -- Jim Elliott -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
Bang! http://s857.photobucket.com/albums/ab138/drd1135/PDML/?action=viewcurrent=dandies-1.jpg I shoot to annoy those I can't meet in person. -- Steve Desjardins -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
On Mar 31, 2011, at 11:59 AM, Steven Desjardins wrote: Bang! http://s857.photobucket.com/albums/ab138/drd1135/PDML/?action=viewcurrent=dandies-1.jpg I shoot to annoy those I can't meet in person. That's why I post. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
2011/3/31 Collin Brendemuehl coll...@brendemuehl.net: But as someone said a couple of weeks ago, the more seriously he takes his photography the less he shoots. [...] Sorry about the rant, but cliche images bother me deeply. You post very few images so if that has any relation to your production at all, you must take your photography very seriously indeed. But one thing is a bit unclear to me; are you bothered by others posting pics you consider cliche, or are you bothered by your own development as a photographer? Jostein -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
On 3/31/2011 12:39 PM, Collin Brendemuehl wrote: Tim just gave us some pretty macro flower pics. A lot of people will like them. I enjoy them as well and even really liked a couple. But as someone said a couple of weeks ago, the more seriously he takes his photography the less he shoots. The question is: How do we better our photography and get past cliche images? Can we take it more seriously without falling into either the trap of elitism or the trap of demanding a certain level of commitment from others? (That's the motivation behind my recent technical criticisms. We can do better without burning ourselves out.) I think about the retirement home with little old ladies taking oil paint lessons so that they can do still life paintings of daisies. I wonder how many of us have nothing better in our imagination than warm fuzzies. And I think Tim senses some of this with the sarcasm in his title about beating us to a bloody pulp with these cliche images. In 2D art one can hardly get more cliche than pretty flowers. So the challenge is this: Make a picture say something. Make it say one word That is, other than Ah or Ooo. A real word. High. Long. Fast. Friend. Love. Charity. Cold. Hot. Soft. Hard. Tomorrow. Yesterday. Win. Lose. Amateur. Professional. Try. Succeed. Fail. Return. Leave. Strong. Weak. Majesty. Humility. Service. Nouns, pronouns, adjectives, adverbs -- they all work. This can help you when you take pictures at kids baseball games or at a wedding. Capture more than just the people. Get their faces, their hands, their interactions with each other and the world around them, their full expressions. That's what makes the Ali(Wasn't he still C. Clay at the time) v Liston picture so special. http://www.sportsmemorabilia.com/sports-products/muhammad-ali-framed-8x10-photo---ali-over-sonny-liston.html Sorry about the rant, but cliche images bother me deeply. Sincerely, Collin Brendemuehl http://kerygmainstitute.org He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose -- Jim Elliott Personally, I shoot what catches my eye. If that happens to be a flower, so be it. But, most of the time, it's not the flower itself that catches my attention, but the way the light falls on it. Having only pursued photography relatively seriously as a hobby for a little over a year, I'm still learning a lot about the camera itself, and a great deal more about photography itself. So, in essence, I shoot to learn how to shoot. Sometimes, flowers provide a great opportunity to learn how the camera captures light. Also, there's the fact that I like taking photos that people like to look at. I don't shoot for other photographers, simply because there's really no way to impress them. Every photographer has his own notion of what makes a great photo. I spend precious little time worrying about the technical details of my shots -- and that obviously shows a great percentage of the time. But, when I put the camera to my eye, I have an expectation of what I want my photos to look like when I finish with them, and I gear my shooting toward that end: Shoot, chimp -- nah, do-over. Shoot, chimp -- dammit. Shoot, chimp -- getting closer. Shoot, chimp -- dammit. And, then, there's the fact that I love to photograph just about anything that will catch my eye -- birds, flowers, people, cars, junk, hot babes, dead opossums, you-name-it. If it has something about it that recommends itself to the eye, I think it's worth shooting. As I see it, if you're walking past something that has obvious beauty and decide not to shoot it because, well, someone's going to make fun of you for shooting it, you've given up a little bit of the joy that made you want to be a photographer in the first place. Part of the beauty of the Ali vs. Liston image is the fact that it puts the viewer there at ringside. It captured the climactic moment that makes people want to go to boxing matches. And that was a good part of the rationale behind my shot choices while I was out in California -- to capture what I saw while I was there and to give the people who will look at my photos (the vast majority of whom are non-photographers) a sense of what I saw while I was there. Regrettably or not, a great deal of what I saw was flowers and bugs and the sort of thing that real photographers would consider cliche. I'm comfortable with that, just as I'm comfortable with the notion that people on the list who see what I've posted will say, Well, it looks like Walt yanked out the K-x and ran out to the flower patch again. Pass! In the end, I guess my view is that, even though some images are naturally more compelling than others, there's no reason not to photos that other people will like. There's no crime in making non-photographers smile, even if it does curl the upper lip of your photographic betters. -- Walt --
Re: Why do you shoot?
You post very few images so if that has any relation to your production at all, you must take your photography very seriously indeed. But one thing is a bit unclear to me; are you bothered by others posting pics you consider cliche, or are you bothered by your own development as a photographer? Jostein The question of personal offense (being bothered) seems to be pervasive. I think that was answered earlier so I will leave it to you for further discovery. As to my personal development ... it's not so much a matter of progress as of time to pursue it. I've got some projects in mind but time just gets in the way. Over the past few years my unemployment has retracted the resources to pursue doing more and better. Perhaps, if I can afford it in my retirement, I'd like to hire a plane to fly into some un- or seldom-explored area of Yukon or Alaska and shoot with a variety of formats. It appears that some type of elitism is being read into my remarks. I can see how that would happen. Photography is a joy and it ought to remain so for all of us. That's why we are here, coupled with just a tad bit of brand loyalty. I would hope that the general statement *might* be taken in concert with the specific ones. If not, well, then I'll have to explain myself a bit more. But you know, the critical comments that I've recently given -- written for both compliment and for encouraging improvement -- have been well-received. Nobody thought of them in any negative fashion. I would hope for the same with a more generalized statement. As to the quantity of work that I post: No, it is not much. I don't shoot a lot. The last snow shots were just for a break from house cleaning. They didn't say much if anything. They only recorded the day and did so in a manner somewhat commensurate with the modern trend of social history which concentrates on the minute details involving individuals rather than the major social events. So I shot mostly leaves and buds instead of hills and fields. (It was an intentional subtext.) Sincerely, Collin Brendemuehl http://kerygmainstitute.org He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose -- Jim Elliott -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
On 2011-03-31 11:39 , Collin Brendemuehl wrote: The question is: How do we better our photography and get past cliche images? Can we take it more seriously without falling into either the trap of elitism or the trap of demanding a certain level of commitment from others? (That's the motivation behind my recent technical criticisms. We can do better without burning ourselves out.) [answering before i look at the other responses] it's the same as with any art form (for those of us who pursue photography as art) -- there is no one way, but it's important to be true to oneself, to practice, and to search for what you have to say; many people (including me) also see their art as a form of play personally, i take a lot of flower shots, mainly because i'm putting them in a database of my gardens; on the face of it this is separate from my artistic pursuits, but while taking flower shots i practice seeing, and i practice technique; i also think there is always more to see in any subject, so sometimes i just work my yard, looking for new things and new ways to see Sorry about the rant, but cliche images bother me deeply. cliches are part of the process -- for one thing there are practice subjects that are very cliche, but which can help develop technique and vision; the other aspect is that it takes work to recognize cliche, and there is a risk of seeing everything as cliche, so i personally feel there's a bit of dancing to do with cliches -- embrace them, twirl them around, make fun of them, let them humble you, but also hone your awareness of when the dance is over -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
For me, it's a combination of: 1. the pleasure of using finely made devices, and 2, The thrill of the hunt when looking for the shots in the field, and 3. the artistic experience in the post processing, originally in the darkroom and later in PS. On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 3:56 PM, steve harley p...@paper-ape.com wrote: On 2011-03-31 11:39 , Collin Brendemuehl wrote: The question is: How do we better our photography and get past cliche images? Can we take it more seriously without falling into either the trap of elitism or the trap of demanding a certain level of commitment from others? (That's the motivation behind my recent technical criticisms. We can do better without burning ourselves out.) [answering before i look at the other responses] it's the same as with any art form (for those of us who pursue photography as art) -- there is no one way, but it's important to be true to oneself, to practice, and to search for what you have to say; many people (including me) also see their art as a form of play personally, i take a lot of flower shots, mainly because i'm putting them in a database of my gardens; on the face of it this is separate from my artistic pursuits, but while taking flower shots i practice seeing, and i practice technique; i also think there is always more to see in any subject, so sometimes i just work my yard, looking for new things and new ways to see Sorry about the rant, but cliche images bother me deeply. cliches are part of the process -- for one thing there are practice subjects that are very cliche, but which can help develop technique and vision; the other aspect is that it takes work to recognize cliche, and there is a risk of seeing everything as cliche, so i personally feel there's a bit of dancing to do with cliches -- embrace them, twirl them around, make fun of them, let them humble you, but also hone your awareness of when the dance is over -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Steve Desjardins -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
I see where you come from Collin. However I think one man's cliche can be another man's: - Honest attempts to learn the craft - Personal joy, or even fetish - The closest motif at hand in a photographic epiphany Or whatever. Jostein 2011/3/31 Collin Brendemuehl coll...@brendemuehl.net: You post very few images so if that has any relation to your production at all, you must take your photography very seriously indeed. But one thing is a bit unclear to me; are you bothered by others posting pics you consider cliche, or are you bothered by your own development as a photographer? Jostein The question of personal offense (being bothered) seems to be pervasive. I think that was answered earlier so I will leave it to you for further discovery. As to my personal development ... it's not so much a matter of progress as of time to pursue it. I've got some projects in mind but time just gets in the way. Over the past few years my unemployment has retracted the resources to pursue doing more and better. Perhaps, if I can afford it in my retirement, I'd like to hire a plane to fly into some un- or seldom-explored area of Yukon or Alaska and shoot with a variety of formats. It appears that some type of elitism is being read into my remarks. I can see how that would happen. Photography is a joy and it ought to remain so for all of us. That's why we are here, coupled with just a tad bit of brand loyalty. I would hope that the general statement *might* be taken in concert with the specific ones. If not, well, then I'll have to explain myself a bit more. But you know, the critical comments that I've recently given -- written for both compliment and for encouraging improvement -- have been well-received. Nobody thought of them in any negative fashion. I would hope for the same with a more generalized statement. As to the quantity of work that I post: No, it is not much. I don't shoot a lot. The last snow shots were just for a break from house cleaning. They didn't say much if anything. They only recorded the day and did so in a manner somewhat commensurate with the modern trend of social history which concentrates on the minute details involving individuals rather than the major social events. So I shot mostly leaves and buds instead of hills and fields. (It was an intentional subtext.) Sincerely, Collin Brendemuehl http://kerygmainstitute.org He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose -- Jim Elliott -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
Those are just dandy, Larry, and I'm not lyin'. Dan On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 3:05 PM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: On Mar 31, 2011, at 11:59 AM, Steven Desjardins wrote: Bang! http://s857.photobucket.com/albums/ab138/drd1135/PDML/?action=viewcurrent=dandies-1.jpg I shoot to annoy those I can't meet in person. That's why I post. -- Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
I shoot all manner of things, some of which might be considered cliches. I shoot flowers, because I'm a gardener and I like flowers. I sometimes want to preserve the look of a bloom at its peak, much like photographing a person in their best years. I shoot people in coffee shops and on the street, because I take delight in capturing a moment in a life -- perhaps a fleeting expression or a gesture. I shoot wildlife because I like tramping around in the woods, and I find animals attractive. I shoot my granddaughter, Grace, because I want to record her life. I shoot cars because I'm paid to do so. And when I get an assignment from the Times photo desk, I shoot whatever the hell they ask me to shoot. In between all that, I shoot anything that strikes my fancy and that might make an attractive picture. There's one thing I never do. I never consider whether or not someone else might consider my choice of subject matter to be cliched. I don't give a damn if they do. Paul On Mar 31, 2011, at 4:04 PM, AlunFoto wrote: I see where you come from Collin. However I think one man's cliche can be another man's: - Honest attempts to learn the craft - Personal joy, or even fetish - The closest motif at hand in a photographic epiphany Or whatever. Jostein 2011/3/31 Collin Brendemuehl coll...@brendemuehl.net: You post very few images so if that has any relation to your production at all, you must take your photography very seriously indeed. But one thing is a bit unclear to me; are you bothered by others posting pics you consider cliche, or are you bothered by your own development as a photographer? Jostein The question of personal offense (being bothered) seems to be pervasive. I think that was answered earlier so I will leave it to you for further discovery. As to my personal development ... it's not so much a matter of progress as of time to pursue it. I've got some projects in mind but time just gets in the way. Over the past few years my unemployment has retracted the resources to pursue doing more and better. Perhaps, if I can afford it in my retirement, I'd like to hire a plane to fly into some un- or seldom-explored area of Yukon or Alaska and shoot with a variety of formats. It appears that some type of elitism is being read into my remarks. I can see how that would happen. Photography is a joy and it ought to remain so for all of us. That's why we are here, coupled with just a tad bit of brand loyalty. I would hope that the general statement *might* be taken in concert with the specific ones. If not, well, then I'll have to explain myself a bit more. But you know, the critical comments that I've recently given -- written for both compliment and for encouraging improvement -- have been well-received. Nobody thought of them in any negative fashion. I would hope for the same with a more generalized statement. As to the quantity of work that I post: No, it is not much. I don't shoot a lot. The last snow shots were just for a break from house cleaning. They didn't say much if anything. They only recorded the day and did so in a manner somewhat commensurate with the modern trend of social history which concentrates on the minute details involving individuals rather than the major social events. So I shot mostly leaves and buds instead of hills and fields. (It was an intentional subtext.) Sincerely, Collin Brendemuehl http://kerygmainstitute.org He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose -- Jim Elliott -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
Den 31. mars 2011 kl. 19.39 skrev Collin Brendemuehl: The question is: How do we better our photography and get past cliche images? Can we take it more seriously without falling into either the trap of elitism or the trap of demanding a certain level of commitment from others? (That's the motivation behind my recent technical criticisms. We can do better without burning ourselves out.) I´ve been through lots of books, thoughts, cliches and ambitions but I think I have ended up with something very simple (or maybe not): - I relax taking pictures. It makes me think of something else and looking for things or situations that interests me. - I am in many ways a restless person, I don´t like doing the same thing twice, so I guess that makes me avoid the cliches I have photographed before (but if I find a new cliche I will try it). - I also found that as I take pictures of things that I find interesting the pictures becomes kind of an introspective tour. There´s some weird humor here, like looking into a distorted mirror, but also a test made on my youngest boy and his slightly strange visual talent made me look again. - And I like the philosophical parts of photography, the idea of capturing the moment you choose, and doing that making that moment or subject in some way more important than all the others. Sometimes it is strange to see which moments I chose to remember. - And of course I like having people look at them, sometime surprising them or see things from another angle, but even if I can imaging closing the web site and stop showing the pictures I can´t imagine not taking pictures... So I guess I just take pictures, and sometimes I try to find out why :-) DagT -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Why Do You Shoot
I get a serious rush from composing pictures. If done through the viewfinder and I feel it's just right, I am especially pleased. It's a glandular sense of the relative element positioning and spacial relationships within the frame. I often shoot aware that a PP crop will be needed and keenly anticipate creating the ultimate composition. It's a feel good thing! Jack -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
I see where you come from Collin. Noted and appreciated. However I think one man's cliche can be another man's: - Honest attempts to learn the craft - Personal joy, or even fetish - The closest motif at hand in a photographic epiphany Or whatever. Jostein Perhaps I'm more of an objectivist than a subjectivist. But knowing the difference is good. Thanks. Sincerely, Collin Brendemuehl http://kerygmainstitute.org He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose -- Jim Elliott -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
On Mar 31, 2011, at 1:17 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: Those are just dandy, Larry, and I'm not lyin'. Thanks, but that's Steven's photo. Dan On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 3:05 PM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: On Mar 31, 2011, at 11:59 AM, Steven Desjardins wrote: Bang! http://s857.photobucket.com/albums/ab138/drd1135/PDML/?action=viewcurrent=dandies-1.jpg I shoot to annoy those I can't meet in person. That's why I post. -- Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
That's OK. I'm going to hit them with Round Up anyway. On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 5:56 PM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: On Mar 31, 2011, at 1:17 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: Those are just dandy, Larry, and I'm not lyin'. Thanks, but that's Steven's photo. Dan On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 3:05 PM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: On Mar 31, 2011, at 11:59 AM, Steven Desjardins wrote: Bang! http://s857.photobucket.com/albums/ab138/drd1135/PDML/?action=viewcurrent=dandies-1.jpg I shoot to annoy those I can't meet in person. That's why I post. -- Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Steve Desjardins -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Why Do You Shoot
It's a glandular sense of the relative element positioning and spacial relationships within the frame. M! -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Jack Davis Sent: 31 March 2011 22:02 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: RE: Why Do You Shoot I get a serious rush from composing pictures. If done through the viewfinder and I feel it's just right, I am especially pleased. It's a glandular sense of the relative element positioning and spacial relationships within the frame. I often shoot aware that a PP crop will be needed and keenly anticipate creating the ultimate composition. It's a feel good thing! Jack -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Why do you shoot?
-Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Collin Brendemuehl Sent: 31 March 2011 18:40 To: pdml Subject: Why do you shoot? Tim just gave us some pretty macro flower pics. A lot of people will [...] bla bla bla [...] Sorry about the rant, but cliche images bother me deeply. It's about time we started to take photography seriously and treat it as a hobby - Elliott Erwitt I dislike landscapes. I only like people, and plastic flowers - Elliott Erwitt B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
- Original Message - From: Bob W p...@web-options.com To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' pdml@pdml.net Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 5:59 PM Subject: RE: Why do you shoot? -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Collin Brendemuehl Sent: 31 March 2011 18:40 To: pdml Subject: Why do you shoot? Tim just gave us some pretty macro flower pics. A lot of people will [...] bla bla bla [...] Sorry about the rant, but cliche images bother me deeply. It's about time we started to take photography seriously and treat it as a hobby - Elliott Erwitt I dislike landscapes. I only like people, and plastic flowers - Elliott Erwitt lol! great quotes, Bob. Thanks for posting. Cheers, Christine -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
- Original Message - From: Paul Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net There's one thing I never do. I never consider whether or not someone else might consider my choice of subject matter to be cliched. I don't give a damn if they do. Hear, hear! Cheers, Christine -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Why Do You Shoot
I have these pictures in my mind and it's the only way I can express them, 'cause I can't draw for shit. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
Christine Aguila wrote: - Original Message - From: Paul Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net There's one thing I never do. I never consider whether or not someone else might consider my choice of subject matter to be cliched. I don't give a damn if they do. Hear, hear! Cheers, Christine Ditto ann -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 4:04 AM, AlunFoto alunf...@gmail.com wrote: I see where you come from Collin. However I think one man's cliche can be another man's: - Honest attempts to learn the craft - Personal joy, or even fetish - The closest motif at hand in a photographic epiphany Or whatever. Jostein Jostein beat me to that line; I was about to say that one man's cliche is another man's art... I watch in fascination as my son would go ewww whenever the Rugrats or Dora the Explorer would come on TV when years earlier he devoured those shows. I muse about how certain things fascinated me back then but I presently consider cliche (okay...flowers). I use the presently because I know that is a momentary whim--someone or something would come along to inspire me to take up taking flower photos again sooner or later. The past months have been busy but I was mostly taking photos of stuff I considered boring--other people's events (which I call people-getting-drunk-shots). Jostein dropping into the Philippines was a break, it was an excuse to shoot sunsets again... -- Bong Manayon http://www.bong.uni.cc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
Being an engineer by profession, I've lacked an outlet for artistic expression over the years have always had a camera to record mostly family events. Occasionally I would snap an outdoor image on vacations that didn't involve family/people stood by its own merits as an image worthy of printing hanging on a wall in the house. I enjoy the outdoors and found it a great change from all the indoor work I was involved in. After a busted Achilles' tendon laid me up for awhile needing a push to get out in the woods again - I signed up for a weeklong outdoor photo workshop in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan - it was during this workshop that I saw the possibility of intelligently approaching the idea of taking outdoor images getting more than a few 'keepers'. I remain mostly an outdoor/nature photographer as a way to get away from things that are the minutia of everyday life. I shoot for my own satisfaction if it pleases others, so much the better. I try to take every image with the intent that it will be worthy of hanging on a wall in a frame, this in itself has probably reduced the amount of images I try to capture but I'm sure the newer technology my experience has helped in this regard also. As for cliché images they are a good starting point for a deeper dive into photography - ie they give a idea of where to start from. Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: Collin Brendemuehl coll...@brendemuehl.net Subject: Why do you shoot? Tim just gave us some pretty macro flower pics. A lot of people will like them. I enjoy them as well and even really liked a couple. But as someone said a couple of weeks ago, the more seriously he takes his photography the less he shoots. The question is: How do we better our photography and get past cliche images? Can we take it more seriously without falling into either the trap of elitism or the trap of demanding a certain level of commitment from others? (That's the motivation behind my recent technical criticisms. We can do better without burning ourselves out.) I think about the retirement home with little old ladies taking oil paint lessons so that they can do still life paintings of daisies. I wonder how many of us have nothing better in our imagination than warm fuzzies. And I think Tim senses some of this with the sarcasm in his title about beating us to a bloody pulp with these cliche images. In 2D art one can hardly get more cliche than pretty flowers. So the challenge is this: Make a picture say something. Make it say one word That is, other than Ah or Ooo. A real word. High. Long. Fast. Friend. Love. Charity. Cold. Hot. Soft. Hard. Tomorrow. Yesterday. Win. Lose. Amateur. Professional. Try. Succeed. Fail. Return. Leave. Strong. Weak. Majesty. Humility. Service. Nouns, pronouns, adjectives, adverbs -- they all work. This can help you when you take pictures at kids baseball games or at a wedding. Capture more than just the people. Get their faces, their hands, their interactions with each other and the world around them, their full expressions. That's what makes the Ali(Wasn't he still C. Clay at the time) v Liston picture so special. http://www.sportsmemorabilia.com/sports-products/muhammad-ali-framed-8x10-photo---ali-over-sonny-liston.html Sorry about the rant, but cliche images bother me deeply. Sincerely, Collin Brendemuehl http://kerygmainstitute.org He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose -- Jim Elliott -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Why do you shoot?
I like looking at pretty women. -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
