Re: Re: Define Monochrome
I guess you are right, PJ. But today very few people work with chemicals, although I know a few, that still do. I wonder if I can actually buy printing paper, toned in Sephia or blue? BTW: Sephia was originally Octopus ink. Regards Jens -- Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself. On Aug 21, 2008 19:01 P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chemical/Silver sepia toned prints will have a mixture of black, (the darkest shades), and brown. Yet they are still considered BW err. monochrome photography. Just saying... Jens wrote: Perhaps. I have now come to the conclusion, that monochrome means One Colour. That is blue in blue, green in green, red in red, gray in gray etc. Very dark parts will seem like the chosen colour in the darkest version. Very bright may seem white. A few years ago monochrome pictures were NOT accepted many places, if ink other than gray and black was used. Today this has changed. You can print in shades of blue, red, green etc. and still get the images accepted as monochrome. As long as there is no trace of other colours in the image. That is if you tone an image sephia, the dark parts should also appear brown, not black. The toning must be total. Black and Sephia in one photograph makes it a colour photograph, since it has two colours. Regards Jens -- You get further with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone. --Al Capone. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: RE: Define Monochrome
- Original Message - From: Jens Subject: Re: RE: Define Monochrome Hello list, Thanks very much for all your answers. This has become an intresting thread. I was just wondering. Many photographic societies have colour and monochrome as categories for exibitions and contests. I wanted to know if there is a gerally accepted definiton - and why. Apparently there's no general rool, all could agree on. I bet if Scott ran a Monochrome PUG, you would get some sort of consensus. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: RE: Define Monochrome
On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 8:59 AM, William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I bet if Scott ran a Monochrome PUG, you would get some sort of consensus. Consensus? On this list? ;-) cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Re: RE: Define Monochrome
Perhaps. I have now come to the conclusion, that monochrome means One Colour. That is blue in blue, green in green, red in red, gray in gray etc. Very dark parts will seem like the chosen colour in the darkest version. Very bright may seem white. A few years ago monochrome pictures were NOT accepted many places, if ink other than gray and black was used. Today this has changed. You can print in shades of blue, red, green etc. and still get the images accepted as monochrome. As long as there is no trace of other colours in the image. That is if you tone an image sephia, the dark parts should also appear brown, not black. The toning must be total. Black and Sephia in one photograph makes it a colour photograph, since it has two colours. Regards Jens -- Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself. On Aug 21, 2008 14:59 William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Jens Subject: Re: RE: Define Monochrome Hello list, Thanks very much for all your answers. This has become an intresting thread. I was just wondering. Many photographic societies have colour and monochrome as categories for exibitions and contests. I wanted to know if there is a gerally accepted definiton - and why. Apparently there's no general rool, all could agree on. I bet if Scott ran a Monochrome PUG, you would get some sort of consensus. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: RE: Define Monochrome
Hello list, Thanks very much for all your answers. This has become an intresting thread. I was just wondering. Many photographic societies have colour and monochrome as categories for exibitions and contests. I wanted to know if there is a gerally accepted definiton - and why. Apparently there's no general rool, all could agree on. I bet if Scott ran a Monochrome PUG, you would get some sort of consensus. William Robb Wherever 3 PDMLers are gathered together, you will find at least 4 opinions. bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: RE: Define Monochrome
- Original Message - From: Bob W Subject: RE: RE: Define Monochrome Wherever 3 PDMLers are gathered together, you will find at least 4 opinions. Hell, when Tom C and I got together last year there were two of us and seven opinions. We were Wiser for it. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: RE: Define Monochrome
Thanks Bob ans William. Your opinions surely differ. I think I'll go with Williams definition. Because WHITE IS a color. Black is not. I believe monochrome means painting with one colour - usually white, but it could be any other colour. The base on which I can paint is black, which is not a colour (absense of light). So, in monochrome, I can substitute White with any other colour, but the black base is a MUST. So, a picture, using blue ink on a yellow base is NOT monochrome, thats's two colours. Regards Jens -- Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself. On Aug 20, 2008 20:50 Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It refers to different shades of the same colour. Yellow and blue, red and green are not the same colour. You could do shades of red, shades of blue, etc. which could include white. Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jens Sent: 20 August 2008 09:21 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: OT: Define Monochrome Hello list In my camera club we had a discussion: What is monochrome? What's the official photographic definition? It seems the original definition is about painting with only one colour. Black. For instance - on white paper or canvas. This gives me a problem: Black White - that's two colours. Or perhaps just one: White, since black is not a colour. White is. So, BW is paintning with to colours: Light and no light/light and darkness and all shades in between. So why is yellow and blue, or red and green etc. not acceptable within the definition of monochrome? Or is it ? The only way I seem to be able to understand the monochrome definition is this: In monohrome photography we paint with light in the darkness. With white on black. Or with white on any other background. So white on blue, white on green. white on red etc. Right? Regards Jens -- Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: RE: Define Monochrome
Up to you, of course, but Bill's notion about a substrate is mistaken. According to the Munsell system, colour can be described using values of hue, saturation and tone. Hue is the 'colour' as we normally use the term - red, green, yellow, whatever. Saturation is the extent to which the hue appears faded dull or rich vibrant. Tone or value is the extent to which the hue seems light or dark. A colour picture becomes monochrome if you remove the hue (and therefore also the saturation), leaving only the tonal values, which we normally represent on a grey scale. If you replace the grey with another single hue (mono chrome) but retain the same tonal values you still have a monochrome picture. The key property is that only one hue is used. Bob Thanks Bob ans William. Your opinions surely differ. I think I'll go with Williams definition. Because WHITE IS a color. Black is not. I believe monochrome means painting with one colour - usually white, but it could be any other colour. The base on which I can paint is black, which is not a colour (absense of light). So, in monochrome, I can substitute White with any other colour, but the black base is a MUST. So, a picture, using blue ink on a yellow base is NOT monochrome, thats's two colours. Regards Jens -- Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself. On Aug 20, 2008 20:50 Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It refers to different shades of the same colour. Yellow and blue, red and green are not the same colour. You could do shades of red, shades of blue, etc. which could include white. Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jens Sent: 20 August 2008 09:21 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: OT: Define Monochrome Hello list In my camera club we had a discussion: What is monochrome? What's the official photographic definition? It seems the original definition is about painting with only one colour. Black. For instance - on white paper or canvas. This gives me a problem: Black White - that's two colours. Or perhaps just one: White, since black is not a colour. White is. So, BW is paintning with to colours: Light and no light/light and darkness and all shades in between. So why is yellow and blue, or red and green etc. not acceptable within the definition of monochrome? Or is it ? The only way I seem to be able to understand the monochrome definition is this: In monohrome photography we paint with light in the darkness. With white on black. Or with white on any other background. So white on blue, white on green. white on red etc. Right? Regards Jens -- Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: RE: Define Monochrome
- Original Message - From: Bob W Subject: RE: RE: Define Monochrome Up to you, of course, but Bill's notion about a substrate is mistaken. Without a substrate of some sort, you don't really have a picture, do you? I meant that the substrate is generally white, if that helps. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: RE: Define Monochrome
Hello list, Thanks very much for all your answers. This has become an intresting thread. I was just wondering. Many photographic societies have colour and monochrome as categories for exibitions and contests. I wanted to know if there is a gerally accepted definiton - and why. Apparently there's no general rool, all could agree on. Regards Jens -- Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself. On Aug 21, 2008 03:54 John Coyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For me, monochrome is any single colour, whether green, red, blue or anything in between. Variations in saturation and tone give a viewable image, as in a sepia print. Technically, black is no reflected light, therefore no 'chrome' at all, whereas white is all colours reflected equally,, therefore not 'mono'. HTH! John Coyle Brisbane, Australia -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jens Sent: Wednesday, 20 August 2008 6:21 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: OT: Define Monochrome Hello list In my camera club we had a discussion: What is monochrome? What's the official photographic definition? It seems the original definition is about painting with only one colour. Black. For instance - on white paper or canvas. This gives me a problem: Black White - that's two colours. Or perhaps just one: White, since black is not a colour. White is. So, BW is paintning with to colours: Light and no light/light and darkness and all shades in between. So why is yellow and blue, or red and green etc. not acceptable within the definition of monochrome? Or is it ? The only way I seem to be able to understand the monochrome definition is this: In monohrome photography we paint with light in the darkness. With white on black. Or with white on any other background. So white on blue, white on green. white on red etc. Right? Regards Jens -- Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
