Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Ooops, haven't looked in for a week and didn't realize this thread went on longer. Very tempted by the GX7, but it is pricey. My preference is not to be an early adopter, but buy a camera after it's been out for a while. And gone down in price. Or you can get it used. Whatever. I now have no camera (except an older version Optio) -- Canon camera and lenses are gone. Ditto what you said, larger crop factor, shorter and lighter telephotos would be a big boon for me. Though it would be odd to switch from a DSLR. Marnie aka Doe :-) In a message dated 9/8/2013 9:54:05 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, a...@pobox.com writes: shrug Some people regularly claim that they want FF over APS-C due to wide-angle versus crop-factor -- given that Marnie didn't even know that m4/3 has 2x crop factor compared with APS-C's 1.5x, I think it was entirely reasonable to mention the wide-angle issue. I certainly don't think it'll play a significant role in her decision given her telephoto preference (or if it does, it'll have a reverse significance). Side note: most of my shooting is also telephoto (except for macro), so I'm definitely not grinding any axe favoring wide-angle and I consider the m4/3 crop factor a plus myself because it makes for lighter and smaller telephoto lenses. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Yup. I mean, I haven't learned metric at all (as an example). So this old dog (female variety) has a hard time learning new tricks. Heh. I understand, to some degree, Godfrey's point too. But until someone said crop factor of 2x vs 1.5x I thought all the m4/3 lenses I saw were wide angle (and not that useful to me). M aka D In a message dated 9/8/2013 11:05:02 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, s...@stans-photography.info writes: So for me, maybe for Marnie as well, I find it quite useful when talking about the m4/3 lenses to add a parenthetical comment about the relation of m4/3 focal length X to 35mm focal length Y. stan -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Thanks, Cotty. M aka D In a message dated 9/11/2013 9:34:20 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, co...@seeingeye.tv writes: Hi Marnie, Was browsing and came across this interesting little article. Caveat: it was written over 9 months ago so I don't know if updated firmware is available. http://photomojomike.com/2012/11/21/fujifilm-x-e1-first-impressions/ I'm V interested in the X-E1, hence my post. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ Broadcast, Corporate, || (O) |Web Video Production -- www.seeingeye.tv _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
V-e-r-y interesting. I wouldn't have guessed. M aka D In a message dated 9/11/2013 10:35:35 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bori...@gmail.com writes: On 9/11/2013 6:31 PM, Tom C wrote: For those of us with older eyes, the modern EVF's almost feel like a new pair of glasses. Mine are not older but weaker and I totally second that. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
What you need to know about the metric system isn't all that hard to learn. Five miles = eight kilometers, so 25mph is 40kmph. A quart of milk is .946 liters (or so it says on the label). All the other nutrition information on the label has been listed in grams since some time back in the 70s (or surely at least since the 80s). Everything metric is either divisible by 10 or it can be multiplied by 10. Usually both, so that quart of milk is really 946 mL (milliliters). There are no fat grams in a bottle of vodka whether it's a fifth or 750 mL. Photographers, of course, have been dealing with lenses in millimeters for years years now; 35mm film was already 35mm film before I was born. It costs more to buy petrol by the liter in Canada, England or Europe than it does to buy gasoline by the gallon here in the U.S. You have to ask for paraffin if you want kerosene, but diesel is still diesel. And that pretty much sums up everything you really need to know to get along in the metric system. On 9/18/2013 5:32 PM, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: Yup. I mean, I haven't learned metric at all (as an example). So this old dog (female variety) has a hard time learning new tricks. Heh. I understand, to some degree, Godfrey's point too. But until someone said crop factor of 2x vs 1.5x I thought all the m4/3 lenses I saw were wide angle (and not that useful to me). M aka D In a message dated 9/8/2013 11:05:02 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, s...@stans-photography.info writes: So for me, maybe for Marnie as well, I find it quite useful when talking about the m4/3 lenses to add a parenthetical comment about the relation of m4/3 focal length X to 35mm focal length Y. stan -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Heh. M aka D :-) In a message dated 9/18/2013 3:57:32 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, johnsess...@yahoo.com writes: What you need to know about the metric system isn't all that hard to learn. Five miles = eight kilometers, so 25mph is 40kmph. A quart of milk is .946 liters (or so it says on the label). All the other nutrition information on the label has been listed in grams since some time back in the 70s (or surely at least since the 80s). Everything metric is either divisible by 10 or it can be multiplied by 10. Usually both, so that quart of milk is really 946 mL (milliliters). There are no fat grams in a bottle of vodka whether it's a fifth or 750 mL. Photographers, of course, have been dealing with lenses in millimeters for years years now; 35mm film was already 35mm film before I was born. It costs more to buy petrol by the liter in Canada, England or Europe than it does to buy gasoline by the gallon here in the U.S. You have to ask for paraffin if you want kerosene, but diesel is still diesel. And that pretty much sums up everything you really need to know to get along in the metric system. On 9/18/2013 5:32 PM, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: Yup. I mean, I haven't learned metric at all (as an example). So this old dog (female variety) has a hard time learning new tricks. Heh. I understand, to some degree, Godfrey's point too. But until someone said crop factor of 2x vs 1.5x I thought all the m4/3 lenses I saw were wide angle (and not that useful to me). M aka D In a message dated 9/8/2013 11:05:02 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, s...@stans-photography.info writes: So for me, maybe for Marnie as well, I find it quite useful when talking about the m4/3 lenses to add a parenthetical comment about the relation of m4/3 focal length X to 35mm focal length Y. stan -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On Sep 12, 2013, at 10:15 PM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: Exactly! Therefore anyone who isn't already invested in Leica will have little to zero interest in that module. Lacking an AF replaceable lens module severely limits the market for the GXR. If it had a built-in EVF, the non-replaceable-lens modules would be more interesting. Well ... The history of this camera seems to suggest otherwise. The GXR sold in modest quantities from the time it was introduced until the announcement that a camera mount for M-bayonet lenses would become available. It took seven months from the time of that announcement to when it reached the market, in which time period sales of the GXR and the original AF camera modules increased dramatically. The release of the A12 Camera Mount incited far far more camera sales than Ricoh was prepared for, world-wide, and even today new buyers of the GXR pop up on the various rangefinder and Leica forums extolling how great it is, and how wonderful it is that they have discovered it. Sales of the GXR began to slow down when no updated A16 version of the mount unit was released and when Ricoh went silent on any new GXR modules or updates. They'd acquired Pentax and have headed off to develop other things, including the new GR. It's pretty well accepted now that the GXR is out of the picture, despite the obvious interest from a particular segment of the marketplace, due to Ricoh moving to other things. But many continue to hope that there will be a GXR II with an uprated body, a built-in EVF, a 16Mpixel or FF camera mount, etc. The enthusiast market of Leica lens owners is older and larger than most people unfamiliar with it seem to realize. They want a digital body to use with their lenses. Remember that when the M9 was introduced, a frightfully expensive camera body, the market response was so intense that it wiped out stocks of Leica lenses, new and used, from virtually every dealer on the planet. Leica has seen gross sales growing by 29% per year since 2009 in an era when other manufacturer's sales have been dropping precipitously. The GXR was a brilliant example of a new type of compact camera that could only be achieved with digital technology. It has had a bright moment for a couple of years, and is still a very fine camera. But in this highly technological era of camera equipment, with rapidly expanding expectations and a market that thrives on new new new things on a quarterly basis, Ricoh has failed to keep up the pressure and develop it further fast enough. That's what put the GXR under. G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On Thu, Sep 12, 2013, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: On Sep 12, 2013, at 10:15 PM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: Exactly! Therefore anyone who isn't already invested in Leica will have little to zero interest in that module. Lacking an AF replaceable lens module severely limits the market for the GXR. If it had a built-in EVF, the non-replaceable-lens modules would be more interesting. Well ... The history of this camera seems to suggest otherwise. The GXR sold in modest quantities from the time it was introduced until the announcement that a camera mount for M-bayonet lenses would become available. It took seven months from the time of that announcement to when it reached the market, in which time period sales of the GXR and the original AF camera modules increased dramatically. The release of the A12 Camera Mount incited far far more camera sales than Ricoh was prepared for, world-wide, and even today new buyers of the GXR pop up on the various rangefinder and Leica forums extolling how great it is, and how wonderful it is that they have discovered it. [...] Sure, from the standpoint of, again, existing Leica owners. But Boris is pushing the GXR for people who are not already in that group, that's where the market is limited, and I don't understand why he's pushing it so hard, especially in a thread where the OP (Marnie) specifically said that a viewfinder is important to her. That's what doesn't make sense. And also in the larger market sense, if the GXR is going to challenge people's ideas of how a camera works, it probably needs modules for existing AF lenses, Ricoh otherwise is in the awkward position of needing to justify expensive lens/sensor combos (they must also be expensive to develop). Essentially, the GXR fits in the buyer mindset for ILCs, but Ricoh can't by itself develop a full range for it. This is not an argument that Ricoh should have abandoned the GXR, obviously it fits a need for many people. -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On Sep 13, 2013, at 7:02 AM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: Sure, from the standpoint of, again, existing Leica owners. There are a lot of them. And many new Leica lens owners who came in because the GXR made it accessible financially. Many of whom might eventually buy a Leica M body. But Boris is pushing the GXR for people who are not already in that group, that's where the market is limited, and I don't understand why he's pushing it so hard, especially in a thread where the OP (Marnie) specifically said that a viewfinder is important to her. That's what doesn't make sense. I don't recall seeing Boris pushing the GXR. He's just enthusiastic about it. Just as I don't push it. ;-) And also in the larger market sense, if the GXR is going to challenge people's ideas of how a camera works, it probably needs modules for existing AF lenses, Ricoh otherwise is in the awkward position of needing to justify expensive lens/sensor combos (they must also be expensive to develop). Essentially, the GXR fits in the buyer mindset for ILCs, but Ricoh can't by itself develop a full range for it. This is not an argument that Ricoh should have abandoned the GXR, obviously it fits a need for many people. Actually, I bet if Ricoh wanted to they could populate an entire lens line for the GXR—they have the resources as a corporation. What's difficult to determine is what they have in way of the will to do it. Their camera and lens efforts in recent years have been pretty narrowly focused—the GXR was the most expansive new project from Ricoh in a long while. Developing any digital camera is a pretty big deal, they're high-end technological devices. Building a camera unit to fit an existing body spec should actually cut costs compared to having to develop a whole camera. The P10, S10, A12 28, A12 50, and A16 camera units are less expensive each one than buying another fixed-lens camera of comparable quality, in their respective niches. What they're more expensive than is buying just a comparable lens to fit to some arbitrary body. It remains interesting to me to see where Ricoh goes with their camera products ... both Ricoh and Pentax branded. It would be nice to see a GXR follow-on. But the more valuable part of my Ricoh GXR kit is surely the lenses I bought to work with the A12 Camera Mount, which are easy to repurpose for use on other RF bodies and TTL-mirrorless cameras. They cost me more than the GXR, EVF, two extra batteries, and three camera/mount units combined, and they hold their value. G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On 9/13/2013 5:02 PM, Aahz Maruch wrote: Sure, from the standpoint of, again, existing Leica owners. But Boris is pushing the GXR for people who are not already in that group, that's where the market is limited, and I don't understand why he's pushing it so hard, especially in a thread where the OP (Marnie) specifically said that a viewfinder is important to her. That's what doesn't make sense. I am not pushing anything. If Marnie is willing to deal with EVF of m43 system, then in principle she could just as well attach the external EVF to Ricoh and use it. That's been my reasoning. Further, to my eyes (namely -6.75 diopter in the right one with which I shoot, plus come other niceties that make my optician wealthy) the Ricoh EVF is very good. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On Wed, Sep 11, 2013, Bruce wrote: You guys are making me think I should go down to the store and take a look at these new EVF's. Another question I have is in regards to sports shooting - any lag as you pan the camera following the action? There will always be some -- consider what happens when a TV camera is panning fast during sports. You should try and see whether it's too much for you. The Fuji X-S1 (a decent current-generation but not top-line EVF) is just barely good enough IMO. Actually, with the GX7 and E-M1, the Fuji should probably be now considered previous-generation. -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On 9/9/2013 5:25 PM, Doug Brewer wrote: On 9/8/13 3:19 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: On Sep 7, 2013, at 9:43 PM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: Sure, but there's nothing like the 8mm fisheye you can get for APS-C for 12mm/e. For most purposes, you're correct that's sufficient, but people who really care about extreme wide-angle are likely to be less satisfied with m4/3. For most purposes ... Don't be ridiculous. A fish-eye lens is a specialty lens, and the ONLY wide-angle lens focal length not listed in native Micro-FourThirds mount. Perhaps that's because there's a superb fish-eye lens in FourThirds SLR mount, which work on mFT bodies with any of the four available, dedicated Panasonic and Olympus FourThirds to Micro-FourThirds mount adapters for 100% full function operation. Olympus Zuiko Digital 8mm F3.5 Diagonal Fisheye Lens: http://four-thirds.org/en/fourthirds/single.html#i_008mm_f035_olympus BH Photo: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/405508-REG/Olympus_261010_8mm_f_3_5_Fisheye_ED.html Your comment sounds like it fits one of the categories in Ctein's most recent column on The Online Photographer: http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2013/09/bad-science-vs-good-science-a-guide-for-the-layperson-part-1.html Check out the God of the Gaps category. ;-) G Ctein is the weakest part of TOP. He appears to only write to try to convince people he's really smart, and it's tiring. I've gotten to where I just ignore the days he contributes. Disclaimer: I read the linked article, and it was more of the same. If Mike J. had written it, I think he'd probably jump on God of the gaps folks as those in the photo world who dismiss a lens line because it doesn't have a specific lens. You know, make it relevant to the readers. I think Ctein is a perfect example of someone who's really good at one or two things and therefor thinks he's really good at all things. -- A newspaper is a device for making the ignorant more ignorant, and the crazy, crazier. - H.L.Mencken -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
For film there was an APS-C standard, and it was rigidly adhered to, if you wanted to sell a camera that used APS film cartridges. Digital is a close enough for horseshoes proposition, even FF sensors aren't exactly the same size as the original 35mm film gates. Not surprisingly all digital sensors are bit smaller than the old film specifications. On 9/10/2013 1:43 PM, John wrote: APS-C stands for Advanced Photo System - C for Classic - 25.1 × 16.7 mm; aspect ratio 3:2, so there actually IS a standard, even if it's universally ignored. On 9/9/2013 4:50 PM, Zos Xavius wrote: Yuh. k-7 and k20D have the same sensor. A samsung sensor. Its true there is no standard for aps-c. Generally canon is a 1.6x crop and nikon/sony/everyone else is a 1.5x crop. I don't know about you, but I'm rather glad I'm not a canon crop-sensor user and not just because of the reduced FoV. On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 10:10 PM, P.J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote: DPReview seems to think that the K-5 and K-7 have exactly the same size sensor. I don't remember where I got those numbers from but IIRC they came from the Pentax web site when I first bought my K20D. When the K-7 was released the sensor was reported to be the same as the K-20D. I could be wrong in the particular. However there is no generally accepted standard specification for the dimensions of APS-C sensors. On 9/8/2013 8:31 PM, Zos Xavius wrote: Hmmmaccording to dxomark: K-7 - 23.4x15.6mm K-5 - 23.7x15.7mm If those numbers are right, the k-7 is exactly 3:2 while the k-5 is slightly wider. Comparing pixel dimensions I get the following aspect ratios: K-5 - 2:3.02 K-7 - 2:3.01 Fairly negligible if you ask me. On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 8:11 PM, P.J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote: The Samsung sensor family used in the K20D and K-7 has a slightly smaller footprint on the order of 10ths of a mm than the Sony sensors used before in the *ist-D and all the other Pentax DSLRs. It seems like a small enough difference. but that can mean a huge difference in AOV when dealing with wide angle lenses. The K-20D and K-7 use a 16x23mm sensor with a ~28.02mm diagonal. The other Pentax DSLRS, (and Nikon DX DSLRs) use a 15.7x23.7mm sensor with a ~28.4mm diagonal. Besides being slightly smaller the Samsung sensor isn't exactly the 2:3 aspect ratio ratio either. When switching between my *ist-Ds and my K20D I actually notice the difference in aspect ratio quite noticeable especially when printing. Canon uses a 14.9 x 22.3mm sensor for it's APS-C sensor cameras with a diagonal of ~26.8mm So there is a much larger difference between Canon and any of the Samsung or Sony sensor cameras, but if you buy a say a 10mm fisheye lens from a third party manufacture that comes in multiple mounts, it may be actually be 180° over the diagonal of one of those sensors or none of them. On 9/8/2013 7:11 PM, Zos Xavius wrote: Correct me if I am totally wrong, but isn't the k-7 sensor size the same as sony sensors with a 1.5x crop? Canon is the only oddball I know of with their slightly smaller 1.6x crop sensor. OkI just googled it. The difference is .1mm horizontally between the k-7 and k-5. Not enough to even noticable. On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 1:54 PM, P.J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote: That's true, it's around 7.5mm. However almost all of this is pretty fuzzy. A full frame fisheye is supposed to cover 180° across the diagonal of the format. Depending on the curvature that the lens imparts that can be done with a number of different focal lengths in the same ball park can be designed to do that. Then when you get to APS-C, well, there's Canon's standard sensor size, the Sony sensors which are slightly larger, the K20D/K-7 with a sensor that's intermediate between them, and whatever Samsung is using these days. Hell, even full frame digital sensors aren't exactly the same size as the standard film gate for 35mm film cameras. So it's unlikely that a full frame fisheye will actually fit the classical definition on any format. Though it would be easiest to do for m4/3 and 4/3 system cameras since the sensor dimensions are fully specified. On 9/8/2013 1:31 PM, Dario Bonazza wrote: Fisheye for m4/3 is around 7.5mm. This is what I have: http://www.ephotozine.com/article/samyang-7-5mm-f-3-5-umc-fisheye-lens-review-19847 Dario -Messaggio originale- From: P.J. Alling Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2013 7:12 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey With rectilinear lenses doing format translations is easy. AOV is AOV, but Fisheye lenses make hash those kinds of comparisons. I have a Pentax 17mm fisheye, and an old 12mm semi circular, (on film), fisheye made by Sigma in the early 60's. I don't have any examples currently, (and don't even have my film scanner attached to my current machine), but the 12mm on APS-C
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Just to go back to EVF's for a moment. I find it interesting that the Pentax X-5 sports Pentax's first EVF in a long while (frankly, I read that somewhere, but don't know WHAT the previous Pentax EVF product even was). The X-5 also sports an articulating LCD screen. If I were prognosticating, I would say that they were trying out some new engineering designs on a budget camera and then planning on incorporating them in more upscale cameras, down the line. It really wouldn't surprise me if there was a K-02 in the works, with both features. On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi godd...@me.com wrote: On Sep 12, 2013, at 12:21 PM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: I bought both my FA31 and my FA77 back when I had the K100. They are wonderful lenses, but I'm very glad that I'm not stuck with the sensor performance that was available six years ago. You will note that Hasselblads decouple the lens from the sensor. You mean like the A12 Camera Mount? The other camera units are like having five individual fixed lens cameras that all share the same body controls and accessory interfaces. If the GXR had a module that let me use Pentax glass in full auto, with the sensor performance of the K-5. In otherwords if I could use it as a mirroless K-5, as well as a mirrorless leica, I'd be all over it like a fratboy on a keg of beer. That notion has been passed around the Ricoh community a bazillion times since Ricoh bought Pentax. I doubt it will ever happen as the Pentax KAF mount is both deep (not very compact) and the control interface to Pentax KAF lenses gets a bit complicated, which would drive up the costs yet some more. The K-01 was a better bet for Pentax lenses, but of course they missed because they didn't provide an EVF port for those that wanted an eye level viewfinder too. What is the sensor performance of the m module anyways? The sensor is based on the popular 12Mpixel Sony APS-C sensor, that's one generation prior to the K5 line. A very good sensor, with good dynamic range and sensitivity up to ISO 1600-2560 depending on your tolerance. Very high acutance as it is an AA-less design. Special correction lenses for RF mount register lenses, and the mount unit supplies lens correction software that operates on both raw and JPEG, just like the Leica M bodies. It's still the best digital body to use with an M mount lens short of the Leica digital Ms. G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Nothing is sure but death and Pentaxes. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On Thu, Sep 12, 2013, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: On Sep 12, 2013, at 8:33 AM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: I wanted a camera, not LEGO. Hasselblads have a similar level of system modularity, as do several other high-end medium format SLR and technical cameras. It's quite a sophisticated concept for a compact camera system, rarely seen in consumer market products. Your response might be indicative of why the market reception was only lukewarm. Yes, particularly given the wastage for the benefit of modularity, and double particularly given the lack of support for auto-focus of non-module lenses. But I'd still consider one if it had a built-in EVF, which is why I put my comment in quotes to indicate that it wasn't specifically my opinion. -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On Wed, Sep 11, 2013, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: [...] With any combination of body and camera/mount unit, you can also add an EVF (Ricoh VF-2), use the LCD, or fit an optical viewfinder of your choice. What does this system gain you over a K5 II? Mostly size and flexibility of configuration. It happens to work extremely well, when configured as body unit plus A12 Camera Mount, with some of the finest lenses around anywhere, of whatever mount, and yet in two seconds can be reconfigured to be a pocketable ultra-zoom point and shoot. Snap the body together with any camera unit and the mode dial set to the green camera, and you need to know nothing at all to use it. Fit the A12 Camera Mount, a Summicron-M 35mm f/2 ASPH lens, or a lens mount adapter and a Micro-Nikkor 200mm f/4 macro lens, and you have a manual focus super-high-quality camera suitable for the advanced amateur or pro demanding use. I wanted a camera, not LEGO. -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On Sep 12, 2013, at 12:21 PM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: I bought both my FA31 and my FA77 back when I had the K100. They are wonderful lenses, but I'm very glad that I'm not stuck with the sensor performance that was available six years ago. You will note that Hasselblads decouple the lens from the sensor. You mean like the A12 Camera Mount? The other camera units are like having five individual fixed lens cameras that all share the same body controls and accessory interfaces. If the GXR had a module that let me use Pentax glass in full auto, with the sensor performance of the K-5. In otherwords if I could use it as a mirroless K-5, as well as a mirrorless leica, I'd be all over it like a fratboy on a keg of beer. That notion has been passed around the Ricoh community a bazillion times since Ricoh bought Pentax. I doubt it will ever happen as the Pentax KAF mount is both deep (not very compact) and the control interface to Pentax KAF lenses gets a bit complicated, which would drive up the costs yet some more. The K-01 was a better bet for Pentax lenses, but of course they missed because they didn't provide an EVF port for those that wanted an eye level viewfinder too. What is the sensor performance of the m module anyways? The sensor is based on the popular 12Mpixel Sony APS-C sensor, that's one generation prior to the K5 line. A very good sensor, with good dynamic range and sensitivity up to ISO 1600-2560 depending on your tolerance. Very high acutance as it is an AA-less design. Special correction lenses for RF mount register lenses, and the mount unit supplies lens correction software that operates on both raw and JPEG, just like the Leica M bodies. It's still the best digital body to use with an M mount lens short of the Leica digital Ms. G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On 9/11/2013 10:08 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: My favorite second party camera is my iphone5. It's all I need in a compact camera. I've even done some work for the Times with it when circumstances required that. Paul via phone Several years ago, the owner of one of the local camera stores told me that most of the camera modules in cell phones were manufactured by Pentax. I have no way to independently verify that fact. But, if true, it would be fun. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On Sep 12, 2013, at 12:21 PM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 12, 2013, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: On Sep 12, 2013, at 8:33 AM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: I wanted a camera, not LEGO. Hasselblads have a similar level of system modularity, as do several other high-end medium format SLR and technical cameras. It's quite a sophisticated concept for a compact camera system, rarely seen in consumer market products. Your response might be indicative of why the market reception was only lukewarm. Yes, particularly given the wastage for the benefit of modularity, and double particularly given the lack of support for auto-focus of non-module lenses. But I'd still consider one if it had a built-in EVF, which is why I put my comment in quotes to indicate that it wasn't specifically my opinion. There are no cameras other than Panasonic and Olympus FourThirds and Micro-FourThirds for which AF support crosses manufacturer boundaries. The A12 Camera Mount was designed specifically for Leica M-mount lenses, which have no AF anyway, so citing that as a reason for discontent is somewhat beside the point. The lack of an EVF in the body can be viewed as both a minus and a plus. Depends on what a user individually wants. The GXR is now discontinued by all reports anyway. Whether they plan to release an updated version or move on to other things is, as usual with Ricoh, unknown until they do it. Such it is. G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On Sep 12, 2013, at 8:33 AM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: I wanted a camera, not LEGO. Hasselblads have a similar level of system modularity, as do several other high-end medium format SLR and technical cameras. It's quite a sophisticated concept for a compact camera system, rarely seen in consumer market products. Your response might be indicative of why the market reception was only lukewarm. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 10:05:37AM -0700, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: On Sep 12, 2013, at 8:33 AM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: I wanted a camera, not LEGO. Hasselblads have a similar level of system modularity, as do several other high-end medium format SLR and technical cameras. It's quite a sophisticated concept for a compact camera system, rarely seen in consumer market products. Your response might be indicative of why the market reception was only lukewarm. I bought both my FA31 and my FA77 back when I had the K100. They are wonderful lenses, but I'm very glad that I'm not stuck with the sensor performance that was available six years ago. You will note that Hasselblads decouple the lens from the sensor. If the GXR had a module that let me use Pentax glass in full auto, with the sensor performance of the K-5. In otherwords if I could use it as a mirroless K-5, as well as a mirrorless leica, I'd be all over it like a fratboy on a keg of beer. What is the sensor performance of the m module anyways? Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On 9/11/2013 4:19 PM, Aahz Maruch wrote: On Wed, Sep 11, 2013, John wrote: Every piece of Sony consumer electronics equipment I have ever owned failed had to be replaced exactly one day after the warranty expired. Timex bought Sony??? I dunno. I have a decade old Timex watch I keep as a backup. Still works. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On Sep 12, 2013, at 16:20 , Bruce Walker wrote: He can't think he's good at *all* things or he'd be on this list. MARK! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 4:34 PM, P.J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote: On 9/9/2013 5:25 PM, Doug Brewer wrote: On 9/8/13 3:19 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: On Sep 7, 2013, at 9:43 PM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: Sure, but there's nothing like the 8mm fisheye you can get for APS-C for 12mm/e. For most purposes, you're correct that's sufficient, but people who really care about extreme wide-angle are likely to be less satisfied with m4/3. For most purposes ... Don't be ridiculous. A fish-eye lens is a specialty lens, and the ONLY wide-angle lens focal length not listed in native Micro-FourThirds mount. Perhaps that's because there's a superb fish-eye lens in FourThirds SLR mount, which work on mFT bodies with any of the four available, dedicated Panasonic and Olympus FourThirds to Micro-FourThirds mount adapters for 100% full function operation. Olympus Zuiko Digital 8mm F3.5 Diagonal Fisheye Lens: http://four-thirds.org/en/fourthirds/single.html#i_008mm_f035_olympus BH Photo: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/405508-REG/Olympus_261010_8mm_f_3_5_Fisheye_ED.html Your comment sounds like it fits one of the categories in Ctein's most recent column on The Online Photographer: http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2013/09/bad-science-vs-good-science-a-guide-for-the-layperson-part-1.html Check out the God of the Gaps category. ;-) G Ctein is the weakest part of TOP. He appears to only write to try to convince people he's really smart, and it's tiring. I've gotten to where I just ignore the days he contributes. Disclaimer: I read the linked article, and it was more of the same. If Mike J. had written it, I think he'd probably jump on God of the gaps folks as those in the photo world who dismiss a lens line because it doesn't have a specific lens. You know, make it relevant to the readers. I think Ctein is a perfect example of someone who's really good at one or two things and therefor thinks he's really good at all things. He can't think he's good at *all* things or he'd be on this list. -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On 9/12/2013 10:21 PM, Aahz Maruch wrote: Yes, particularly given the wastage for the benefit of modularity, and double particularly given the lack of support for auto-focus of non-module lenses. But I'd still consider one if it had a built-in EVF, which is why I put my comment in quotes to indicate that it wasn't specifically my opinion. Without disrespect, Aahz, but you appear to totally miss the point. You have two choices 1. Modules with AF and non-replaceable lens 2. Module without AF and replaceable lens It is on purpose. Also, Leica M-mount has no such thing as AF to start with... Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On Fri, Sep 13, 2013, Boris Liberman wrote: On 9/12/2013 10:21 PM, Aahz Maruch wrote: Yes, particularly given the wastage for the benefit of modularity, and double particularly given the lack of support for auto-focus of non-module lenses. But I'd still consider one if it had a built-in EVF, which is why I put my comment in quotes to indicate that it wasn't specifically my opinion. Without disrespect, Aahz, but you appear to totally miss the point. Nope, you're missing my point. ;-) You have two choices 1. Modules with AF and non-replaceable lens 2. Module without AF and replaceable lens It is on purpose. Also, Leica M-mount has no such thing as AF to start with... Exactly! Therefore anyone who isn't already invested in Leica will have little to zero interest in that module. Lacking an AF replaceable lens module severely limits the market for the GXR. If it had a built-in EVF, the non-replaceable-lens modules would be more interesting. -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Well, as long as you agree that you're missing mine, I'l agree to be missing yours :-). I should admit that at least a year before I bought into this system I was sitting on the fence. And boy, I was wrong. This system is brilliant. As for marketing - I think Ricoh missed the opportunity to present the M-mount module as a very cheap yet very viable alternative to Leica. As for AF replaceable lens modules - well, I doubt that you can do it compact. I think that m43 could be made that way but I couldn't possibly tell whether Ricoh deemed it was worth their while. Apparently they either did not consider it at all, or rejected the idea. As it is, Aahz, you might wanna give it a fair try. On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 8:15 AM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 13, 2013, Boris Liberman wrote: On 9/12/2013 10:21 PM, Aahz Maruch wrote: Yes, particularly given the wastage for the benefit of modularity, and double particularly given the lack of support for auto-focus of non-module lenses. But I'd still consider one if it had a built-in EVF, which is why I put my comment in quotes to indicate that it wasn't specifically my opinion. Without disrespect, Aahz, but you appear to totally miss the point. Nope, you're missing my point. ;-) You have two choices 1. Modules with AF and non-replaceable lens 2. Module without AF and replaceable lens It is on purpose. Also, Leica M-mount has no such thing as AF to start with... Exactly! Therefore anyone who isn't already invested in Leica will have little to zero interest in that module. Lacking an AF replaceable lens module severely limits the market for the GXR. If it had a built-in EVF, the non-replaceable-lens modules would be more interesting. -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
I will say that a while back the one brand that had my attention was Sony. Pentax made a huge leap when they adopted Sony Exmor sensors, and Sony gives itself an edge in the sensor department. They also had fairly reasonably priced full frame options and the internal shake reduction that I appreciate in the Pentax DSLRs. I also like that they will accept Minolta Maxxum mount lenses, which gives a budget option there. I just didn't care for their Pellicle Mirror designs (which they apparently have now abandoned). Too much of a cost in light loss, in my opinion. But if you asked me the brand that appears most likely to be my 2nd choice, should it ever come to that, I would say Sony. Their NEX cameras are pretty clearly the best mirrorless option out there, IQ-wise, but I'm not a big fan of composing on the LCD and have yet to actually try an electronic viewfinder. On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 12:39 AM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Sep 10, 2013, Darren Addy wrote: Like the OP, I want a real viewfinder and I probably don't want a smaller sensor (mostly because I like wide and the smaller the sensor the harder it is to go wide with the focal length crop factor.) One issue for me is that I really do like a tilting screen for macro photography, I find it helps a lot. If LENSES are important, but you don't want HEAVY (two of the original poster's prerequisites) then I don't think you can do better than Pentax. They have nice light zooms and small light primes (Limiteds). The K-5 body is not overly large or heavy. Honestly, if the K-5 body is too heavy for you then I would hold off buying a camera and doing a little weight training. The K-5 body is 670 grams (with battery). You only save 34 grams by going to the entry level K-500. By contrast, the original Spotmatic in 1960 weighed 621 grams. As was mentioned, you can get a K-5 body for under your $600 figure, probably with a kit lens even. Still, if you're assembling a travel kit, shaving 20-30% in total bulk/weight can be significant. And aside from the Bigma, there aren't any current long zooms (compared with two 300mm -- 600mm/e -- in m4/3). This isn't an argument against Pentax, mind, I'm still flipping back and forth in my own mind whether the better lens variety and sensor quality with Pentax is more worthwhile. -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Nothing is sure but death and Pentaxes. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com wrote: ... I'm not a big fan of composing on the LCD and have yet to actually try an electronic viewfinder. You may be very pleasantly surprised on both counts here. I don't easily recall when I last used my K-5 and I totally don't miss optical viewfinder thereof... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com wrote: ... I'm not a big fan of composing on the LCD and have yet to actually try an electronic viewfinder. Well, silly Darren, one composes with an LCD or electronic viewfinder exactly the same way one does with an optical viewfinder. :))) I agree. I prefer a viewfinder. I think the EVF in the NEX-6/7 are great. In normal and bright light they almost provide a better view than an optical viewfinder. In low light they tend to get a little noisy, but I figure that's akin to not being able to see as much in an optical viewfinder as light levels drop. One of the benefits is that after image acquisition, it is instantly displayed in the EVF, meaning I needn't look away to preview the image on the LCD. If I need to adjust composition or retake for any other reason, the cycle is much quicker than with a normal optical viewfinder. As Boris suggests, you may be pleasantly surprised. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Years ago somebody bought a digital PS with a digital viewfinder. I was instantly turned off by the lines on the screen. Tell me it's better now??? Regards, Bob S. On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 7:34 AM, Tom C caka...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com wrote: ... I'm not a big fan of composing on the LCD and have yet to actually try an electronic viewfinder. Well, silly Darren, one composes with an LCD or electronic viewfinder exactly the same way one does with an optical viewfinder. :))) I agree. I prefer a viewfinder. I think the EVF in the NEX-6/7 are great. In normal and bright light they almost provide a better view than an optical viewfinder. In low light they tend to get a little noisy, but I figure that's akin to not being able to see as much in an optical viewfinder as light levels drop. One of the benefits is that after image acquisition, it is instantly displayed in the EVF, meaning I needn't look away to preview the image on the LCD. If I need to adjust composition or retake for any other reason, the cycle is much quicker than with a normal optical viewfinder. As Boris suggests, you may be pleasantly surprised. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Far better, Bob. Far better. On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 3:47 PM, Bob Sullivan rf.sulli...@gmail.com wrote: Years ago somebody bought a digital PS with a digital viewfinder. I was instantly turned off by the lines on the screen. Tell me it's better now??? Regards, Bob S. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Years ago somebody bought a digital PS with a digital viewfinder. I was instantly turned off by the lines on the screen. Tell me it's better now??? Regards, Bob S. Hi Bob, You answered part of it yourself. :) This is today, that was years ago. No lines. I was mildly blown away by the IQ of the NEX-7 EVF. Some will whine about noise in low light, but then they should also whine that they can't see a heck of a lot through an optical VF when light levels are low. If anything, at very low light levels an EVF at least gives you a representation of what's being imaged, where with optical, one is almost blind. Take a look through a NEX-6 or 7 EVF. It's a 2.3 million pixel image. That's more than twice the pixel count of the LCD monitor. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Well not really looking through... looking at. Tom C. On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 7:15 AM, Tom C caka...@gmail.com wrote: Years ago somebody bought a digital PS with a digital viewfinder. I was instantly turned off by the lines on the screen. Tell me it's better now??? Regards, Bob S. Hi Bob, You answered part of it yourself. :) This is today, that was years ago. No lines. I was mildly blown away by the IQ of the NEX-7 EVF. Some will whine about noise in low light, but then they should also whine that they can't see a heck of a lot through an optical VF when light levels are low. If anything, at very low light levels an EVF at least gives you a representation of what's being imaged, where with optical, one is almost blind. Take a look through a NEX-6 or 7 EVF. It's a 2.3 million pixel image. That's more than twice the pixel count of the LCD monitor. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
I used a Nikon Coolpix 5700 with an EVF, for evidence photography, years ago and in my opinion it was a great camera for static image capture but wasn't one to use for any sort of dynamic capture - there was a noticeable time delay between pushing the shutter release and the actual image capture - giving you the image that occurred after the one you wanted. Does this delay still exist in modern EVFs? -Original Message- From: Tom C caka...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey Years ago somebody bought a digital PS with a digital viewfinder. I was instantly turned off by the lines on the screen. Tell me it's better now??? Regards, Bob S. Hi Bob, You answered part of it yourself. :) This is today, that was years ago. No lines. I was mildly blown away by the IQ of the NEX-7 EVF. Some will whine about noise in low light, but then they should also whine that they can't see a heck of a lot through an optical VF when light levels are low. If anything, at very low light levels an EVF at least gives you a representation of what's being imaged, where with optical, one is almost blind. Take a look through a NEX-6 or 7 EVF. It's a 2.3 million pixel image. That's more than twice the pixel count of the LCD monitor. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Ken, can it be that you're confusing the shutter release lag with EVF operation. With my Ricoh GXR and (manual focus) Leica M-module, everything is quite excellent in this regard. Both the viewfinder is very easy to use and focusing by b/w focus assist is easy. The shutter release is very fast, though it takes time between shots, which I gather is limitation of the rather aged body. In other words, for people with weaker eyes, EVF can be actually preferable as it: 1. Ensures relatively uniform brightness despite different lighting conditions outside, which IMO is a good thing. 2. With proper implementation, focus assist is easier than squinting through OVF even with special screens, and as you might know - I've tried quite a few of them. On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 5:14 PM, Kenneth Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com wrote: I used a Nikon Coolpix 5700 with an EVF, for evidence photography, years ago and in my opinion it was a great camera for static image capture but wasn't one to use for any sort of dynamic capture - there was a noticeable time delay between pushing the shutter release and the actual image capture - giving you the image that occurred after the one you wanted. Does this delay still exist in modern EVFs? -Original Message- From: Tom C caka...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey Years ago somebody bought a digital PS with a digital viewfinder. I was instantly turned off by the lines on the screen. Tell me it's better now??? Regards, Bob S. Hi Bob, You answered part of it yourself. :) This is today, that was years ago. No lines. I was mildly blown away by the IQ of the NEX-7 EVF. Some will whine about noise in low light, but then they should also whine that they can't see a heck of a lot through an optical VF when light levels are low. If anything, at very low light levels an EVF at least gives you a representation of what's being imaged, where with optical, one is almost blind. Take a look through a NEX-6 or 7 EVF. It's a 2.3 million pixel image. That's more than twice the pixel count of the LCD monitor. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
The modern EVF cameras have reduced lag to almost non-existent. My older EVF cameras - Sony F707/F717/F828/R1, Olympus 8080WZ, Panasonic FZ10, Minolta A2 - were fairly pathetic on viewfinder responsiveness and resolution. I used the viewfinder primarily as a targeting device. I remember the FZ10 resolution and refresh being so slow I couldn't even see birds in flight with it ... they disappeared in the refresh cycles. Yet I took quite a few successful photos of birds in flight with it by guessing... EVF responsiveness slows down somewhat as light levels drop ... the sensor has to collect more data, the EVF has to display a few frames of capture data to keep brightness up to a usable standard. But when that's happening, with SLRs it's so dark I can't see anything at all, and certainly can't focus. In either case, if the subject is in motion, I'm back to old reliable: focus by zone, guess the timing. The NEX 6 has a terrific EVF ... better than the NEX 7 to my eye, despite the specifications. The OM-D E-M5 viewfinder is on par with that, the Olympus VF-4 for the E-P5 goes another, noticeable notch better. The new E-M1 viewfinder uses the VF-4 panel but has even better supporting circuitry. Godfrey On Sep 11, 2013, at 7:14 AM, Kenneth Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com wrote: I used a Nikon Coolpix 5700 with an EVF, for evidence photography, years ago and in my opinion it was a great camera for static image capture but wasn't one to use for any sort of dynamic capture - there was a noticeable time delay between pushing the shutter release and the actual image capture - giving you the image that occurred after the one you wanted. Does this delay still exist in modern EVFs? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On Sep 11, 2013, at 7:14 AM, Kenneth Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com wrote: I used a Nikon Coolpix 5700 with an EVF, for evidence photography, years ago and in my opinion it was a great camera for static image capture but wasn't one to use for any sort of dynamic capture - there was a noticeable time delay between pushing the shutter release and the actual image capture - giving you the image that occurred after the one you wanted. Does this delay still exist in modern EVFs? With NEX-6/7 there is no noticeable shutter lag and captured image display in the EVF is instantaneous. NEX-6/7 use the same EVF from what I read. My son has the 6 and I have 7. He took the NEX-6 to Bumbershoot in Seattle recently. Lots of indoor concert shots with stage lighting. He quickly ditched his iPhone 5 in favor of the NEX-6. :) For those of us with older eyes, the modern EVF's almost feel like a new pair of glasses. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On Wed, Sep 11, 2013, Boris Liberman wrote: On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com wrote: ... I'm not a big fan of composing on the LCD and have yet to actually try an electronic viewfinder. You may be very pleasantly surprised on both counts here. I don't easily recall when I last used my K-5 and I totally don't miss optical viewfinder thereof... Well, I've used all three recently: LCD screen, OVF (K-5 and Nikon P7100), and EVF (Fuji X-S1). I overall prefer the K-5 OVF; the P7100's OVF is useless for anything other than a backup in bright light. But a screen, particularly a tilting or articulated screen, makes certain shots a lot easier; a current-generation EVF is better than the P7100's OVF. If the K-5 had a better live view screen, I'd probably use it a bit more than I did on our cruise, but really, viewfinders have better shooting ergonomics. -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
You guys are making me think I should go down to the store and take a look at these new EVF's. Another question I have is in regards to sports shooting - any lag as you pan the camera following the action? -- Bruce Sent from my iPad On Sep 11, 2013, at 8:31 AM, Tom C caka...@gmail.com wrote: On Sep 11, 2013, at 7:14 AM, Kenneth Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com wrote: I used a Nikon Coolpix 5700 with an EVF, for evidence photography, years ago and in my opinion it was a great camera for static image capture but wasn't one to use for any sort of dynamic capture - there was a noticeable time delay between pushing the shutter release and the actual image capture - giving you the image that occurred after the one you wanted. Does this delay still exist in modern EVFs? With NEX-6/7 there is no noticeable shutter lag and captured image display in the EVF is instantaneous. NEX-6/7 use the same EVF from what I read. My son has the 6 and I have 7. He took the NEX-6 to Bumbershoot in Seattle recently. Lots of indoor concert shots with stage lighting. He quickly ditched his iPhone 5 in favor of the NEX-6. :) For those of us with older eyes, the modern EVF's almost feel like a new pair of glasses. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On Wed, Sep 11, 2013, Darren Addy wrote: But if you asked me the brand that appears most likely to be my 2nd choice, should it ever come to that, I would say Sony. Their NEX cameras are pretty clearly the best mirrorless option out there, IQ-wise, but I'm not a big fan of composing on the LCD and have yet to actually try an electronic viewfinder. Like many people, I'm semi-boycotting Sony for their idiotic attitudes toward DRM (including the rootkit on music CD incident). I'd need to see some serious public apology from them before I'd consider buying into their system. (Can't completely boycott Sony until/unless they divest their movie studio ;-), but no hardware.) -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Hi Marnie, Was browsing and came across this interesting little article. Caveat: it was written over 9 months ago so I don't know if updated firmware is available. http://photomojomike.com/2012/11/21/fujifilm-x-e1-first-impressions/ I'm V interested in the X-E1, hence my post. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__Broadcast, Corporate, || (O) |Web Video Production --www.seeingeye.tv _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Bruce wrote: You guys are making me think I should go down to the store and take a look at these new EVF's. Another question I have is in regards to sports shooting - any lag as you pan the camera following the action? I don't shoot sports but I wouldn't think so. I pan with the NEX-7 just as one would do with an OVF to compose, and I see exactly what the camera sees. Possibly one would want to turn auto review off at those times so the EVF doesn't review the image, but a half-press of the shutter release clears the preview and goes back to EVF live view. I suspect in Continuous Shooting mode, where the shutter is depressed constantly, that it it automatically turns off image review and one simply sees the normal EVF view, unhindered. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Mike Johnston just reported on rumors that next month will see the announcement of an interchangeable-lens sibling to the full-frame Sony RX-1. Food for thought. And not long to wait to see if it's true. -- Mark Roberts - Photography Multimedia www.robertstech.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On Wed, Sep 11, 2013, Steve Cottrell wrote: Was browsing and came across this interesting little article. Caveat: it was written over 9 months ago so I don't know if updated firmware is available. http://photomojomike.com/2012/11/21/fujifilm-x-e1-first-impressions/ Given Marnie's interest in telephoto, I wouldn't recommend the Fuji X series. The only real option is the 55-200, which is a bit short for a lens system and is rather heavy at nearly 1.3 pounds. By comparison, the Pentax DA 50-200 is only 0.6 pounds -- the extra weight for Fuji comes from both a slightly wider aperture and the OIS. It's also $700 compared with $130 or $240 for the Pentax depending on whether you want sealing. Heck, even the Pentax 55-300 is lighter than the Fuji 55-200. -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On 9/11/2013 6:31 PM, Tom C wrote: For those of us with older eyes, the modern EVF's almost feel like a new pair of glasses. Mine are not older but weaker and I totally second that. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
The latest generation of EVF cameras have substantially reduced the tendency to tearing and jitter with camera motion—it's down to almost none now, and is certainly very usable for my needs. But it is still one area where a good reflex viewfinder has an advantage. Likewise C-AF tracking features. With most, you can shoot fast sequences but cannot expect the viewfinder and focusing system to track with AF very well. The new E-M1 represents a substantial improvement in this regard, with CDAF and PDAF on chip and hybrid operation for tracking. The NEX 6 and NEX 7 EVFs spec very similarly if not the same, yet when I looked at them side by side, the 6's EVF was somehow more comfortable and clearer to view with. Don't know why. I like the 6's control layout more too. Eh? Horses for courses. :-) Godfrey On Sep 11, 2013, at 8:37 AM, Bruce bkday...@daytonphoto.com wrote: You guys are making me think I should go down to the store and take a look at these new EVF's. Another question I have is in regards to sports shooting - any lag as you pan the camera following the action? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Perhaps of more interest: http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/tag/fuji/ -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__Broadcast, Corporate, || (O) |Web Video Production --www.seeingeye.tv _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
From: Mark Roberts postmas...@robertstech.com Mike Johnston just reported on rumors that next month will see the announcement of an interchangeable-lens sibling to the full-frame Sony RX-1. Food for thought. And not long to wait to see if it's true. My opinion only... As nice as that sounds, it creates a situation of a very small body with some large heavy lenses. Many people whined and balked about the idea of the NEX body/lens matchup, even when the lenses were commensurately smaller/lighter and were specifically designed for the NEX cameras. I'm not quite sure where Sony is going with the idea, other than to prove they can. One of the desirable attributes of the mirrorless ILC's so far, has been the ability to carry a compact and light kit. A FF ILC, sort of negates that in some ways. I would hope, if it exists, that it would have an integrated EVF, not an attachment as the RX-1 has. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
on 2013-09-11 7:15 Tom C wrote Take a look through a NEX-6 or 7 EVF. It's a 2.3 million pixel image. That's more than twice the pixel count of the LCD monitor. be careful here - pixel is the wrong word; unfortunately, camera manufacturers have taken to inflating viewfinder resolution by counting dots rather than pixels; these dots are what we'd call sub-pixels on a computer display the actual pixels are composed of three dots, and the pixel count on the NEX-7 EVF is 768K (1024x768), so each EVF pixel represents about 32 image pixels; it seems like there is still room for improvement in EVF resolution, though tricks like boosting light levels and temporarily magnifying the focus area do give EVFs some advantages over optical -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On 9/11/2013 8:34 AM, Tom C wrote: On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com wrote: ... I'm not a big fan of composing on the LCD and have yet to actually try an electronic viewfinder. Well, silly Darren, one composes with an LCD or electronic viewfinder exactly the same way one does with an optical viewfinder. :))) Not entirely. I can't see anything through the optical viewfinder if I try holding it out at arms length to compose the shot. Live View, when I've got the camera mounted on a tripod, hasn't turned out to be as bad as I feared it would be. It could be similar to using the ground glass on a view camera if I could remember to take my dark cloth along in my camera bag. Mostly it's tiresome having to get into the menu and change the DOF preview method ... and forgetting to change it back when I'm finished. Very disconcerting the next time I try to preview DOF through the viewfinder everything goes black. Just a momentary WTF? I don't think it's yet cost me any shots. I wonder if that's something that could be assigned to the green button? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Thanks Godfrey - I probably need to get my hands on some of the newer EVF's just to see how they currently are. Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: Godfrey DiGiorgi godd...@me.com Subject: Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey The modern EVF cameras have reduced lag to almost non-existent. My older EVF cameras - Sony F707/F717/F828/R1, Olympus 8080WZ, Panasonic FZ10, Minolta A2 - were fairly pathetic on viewfinder responsiveness and resolution. I used the viewfinder primarily as a targeting device. I remember the FZ10 resolution and refresh being so slow I couldn't even see birds in flight with it ... they disappeared in the refresh cycles. Yet I took quite a few successful photos of birds in flight with it by guessing... EVF responsiveness slows down somewhat as light levels drop ... the sensor has to collect more data, the EVF has to display a few frames of capture data to keep brightness up to a usable standard. But when that's happening, with SLRs it's so dark I can't see anything at all, and certainly can't focus. In either case, if the subject is in motion, I'm back to old reliable: focus by zone, guess the timing. The NEX 6 has a terrific EVF ... better than the NEX 7 to my eye, despite the specifications. The OM-D E-M5 viewfinder is on par with that, the Olympus VF-4 for the E-P5 goes another, noticeable notch better. The new E-M1 viewfinder uses the VF-4 panel but has even better supporting circuitry. Godfrey On Sep 11, 2013, at 7:14 AM, Kenneth Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com wrote: I used a Nikon Coolpix 5700 with an EVF, for evidence photography, years ago and in my opinion it was a great camera for static image capture but wasn't one to use for any sort of dynamic capture - there was a noticeable time delay between pushing the shutter release and the actual image capture - giving you the image that occurred after the one you wanted. Does this delay still exist in modern EVFs? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Well, Aahz, I suppose it is power to you then. You see, starting with K-7, the default focusing screen wasn't properly located for accurate shallow DOF manual focus (think 77/1.8 wide open or worse yet 50/1.2 wide open). I had a saga with K-7 shimming. The K-5 that I bought brand new - I decided not to get involved with this. So I bought a second hand K-5 which has properly shimmed screen. The problem is - my eyes become very tired very soon. Yes, I can hit focus, but not for long, not with any convenience anyway. Not so with my Ricoh GXR EVF. Again - I'm not saying that OVFs are junk. I'm saying that me in particular is better served with this particular kind of EVF. I looked at Panasonic's EVF that my brother bought for his LX-5 (or LX-7, whatever). It wasn't good at all although it was more modern than that of my Ricoh. I'm saying though that the EVFs have evolved enough to be sufficiently good tool for working with the camera. Boris On 9/11/2013 6:13 PM, Aahz Maruch wrote: On Wed, Sep 11, 2013, Boris Liberman wrote: On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com wrote: ... I'm not a big fan of composing on the LCD and have yet to actually try an electronic viewfinder. You may be very pleasantly surprised on both counts here. I don't easily recall when I last used my K-5 and I totally don't miss optical viewfinder thereof... Well, I've used all three recently: LCD screen, OVF (K-5 and Nikon P7100), and EVF (Fuji X-S1). I overall prefer the K-5 OVF; the P7100's OVF is useless for anything other than a backup in bright light. But a screen, particularly a tilting or articulated screen, makes certain shots a lot easier; a current-generation EVF is better than the P7100's OVF. If the K-5 had a better live view screen, I'd probably use it a bit more than I did on our cruise, but really, viewfinders have better shooting ergonomics. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
I'm not boycotting Sony, I just don't like their crap products. Every piece of Sony consumer electronics equipment I have ever owned failed had to be replaced exactly one day after the warranty expired. Although, I haven't forgotten (or forgiven) that root-kit debacle either. On 9/11/2013 11:16 AM, Aahz Maruch wrote: On Wed, Sep 11, 2013, Darren Addy wrote: But if you asked me the brand that appears most likely to be my 2nd choice, should it ever come to that, I would say Sony. Their NEX cameras are pretty clearly the best mirrorless option out there, IQ-wise, but I'm not a big fan of composing on the LCD and have yet to actually try an electronic viewfinder. Like many people, I'm semi-boycotting Sony for their idiotic attitudes toward DRM (including the rootkit on music CD incident). I'd need to see some serious public apology from them before I'd consider buying into their system. (Can't completely boycott Sony until/unless they divest their movie studio ;-), but no hardware.) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On the downside, you have to deal with that funky Minolta flash mount. On 9/11/2013 7:21 AM, Darren Addy wrote: I will say that a while back the one brand that had my attention was Sony. Pentax made a huge leap when they adopted Sony Exmor sensors, and Sony gives itself an edge in the sensor department. They also had fairly reasonably priced full frame options and the internal shake reduction that I appreciate in the Pentax DSLRs. I also like that they will accept Minolta Maxxum mount lenses, which gives a budget option there. I just didn't care for their Pellicle Mirror designs (which they apparently have now abandoned). Too much of a cost in light loss, in my opinion. But if you asked me the brand that appears most likely to be my 2nd choice, should it ever come to that, I would say Sony. Their NEX cameras are pretty clearly the best mirrorless option out there, IQ-wise, but I'm not a big fan of composing on the LCD and have yet to actually try an electronic viewfinder. On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 12:39 AM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Sep 10, 2013, Darren Addy wrote: Like the OP, I want a real viewfinder and I probably don't want a smaller sensor (mostly because I like wide and the smaller the sensor the harder it is to go wide with the focal length crop factor.) One issue for me is that I really do like a tilting screen for macro photography, I find it helps a lot. If LENSES are important, but you don't want HEAVY (two of the original poster's prerequisites) then I don't think you can do better than Pentax. They have nice light zooms and small light primes (Limiteds). The K-5 body is not overly large or heavy. Honestly, if the K-5 body is too heavy for you then I would hold off buying a camera and doing a little weight training. The K-5 body is 670 grams (with battery). You only save 34 grams by going to the entry level K-500. By contrast, the original Spotmatic in 1960 weighed 621 grams. As was mentioned, you can get a K-5 body for under your $600 figure, probably with a kit lens even. Still, if you're assembling a travel kit, shaving 20-30% in total bulk/weight can be significant. And aside from the Bigma, there aren't any current long zooms (compared with two 300mm -- 600mm/e -- in m4/3). This isn't an argument against Pentax, mind, I'm still flipping back and forth in my own mind whether the better lens variety and sensor quality with Pentax is more worthwhile. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On Wed, Sep 11, 2013, John wrote: Every piece of Sony consumer electronics equipment I have ever owned failed had to be replaced exactly one day after the warranty expired. Timex bought Sony??? -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Not on the latest ones. They now have an ISO shoe fitted with the interface for their EVF on the RX-1, and the ISO shoe on the NEX 6 as well. In general, however, I'm not partial to the NEX bodies. They feel very cramped in my hands. The 6 seems the best of them so far, but it doesn't give me the same feeling of security that the Ricoh GXR does, which is essentially the same size. Same for the RX-1: our host at the Sunday event had just gotten one and I played with it for a while. It just seemed an awkward camera to handle and use for me. Godfrey On Sep 11, 2013, at 12:36 PM, John johnsess...@yahoo.com wrote: On the downside, you have to deal with that funky Minolta flash mount. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Unless you're a working pro on paid assignment from Sports Illustrated, you're required to have shutter lag. Except, I can't remember if that's in the Constitution or the NFL's rule book. On 9/11/2013 11:37 AM, Bruce wrote: You guys are making me think I should go down to the store and take a look at these new EVF's. Another question I have is in regards to sports shooting - any lag as you pan the camera following the action? -- Bruce Sent from my iPad On Sep 11, 2013, at 8:31 AM, Tom C caka...@gmail.com wrote: On Sep 11, 2013, at 7:14 AM, Kenneth Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com wrote: I used a Nikon Coolpix 5700 with an EVF, for evidence photography, years ago and in my opinion it was a great camera for static image capture but wasn't one to use for any sort of dynamic capture - there was a noticeable time delay between pushing the shutter release and the actual image capture - giving you the image that occurred after the one you wanted. Does this delay still exist in modern EVFs? With NEX-6/7 there is no noticeable shutter lag and captured image display in the EVF is instantaneous. NEX-6/7 use the same EVF from what I read. My son has the 6 and I have 7. He took the NEX-6 to Bumbershoot in Seattle recently. Lots of indoor concert shots with stage lighting. He quickly ditched his iPhone 5 in favor of the NEX-6. :) For those of us with older eyes, the modern EVF's almost feel like a new pair of glasses. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Boris, focusing wasn't an issue with the 5700 and moving animals/birds - but I mostly never was able to capture a moving subject and get it in the center of the frame - I had to anticipate where it was going to be when the camera decided to capture the image. Granted that was with an EVF that is now around 9 or 10 years old and they most likely have been improved. Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey Ken, can it be that you're confusing the shutter release lag with EVF operation. With my Ricoh GXR and (manual focus) Leica M-module, everything is quite excellent in this regard. Both the viewfinder is very easy to use and focusing by b/w focus assist is easy. The shutter release is very fast, though it takes time between shots, which I gather is limitation of the rather aged body. In other words, for people with weaker eyes, EVF can be actually preferable as it: 1. Ensures relatively uniform brightness despite different lighting conditions outside, which IMO is a good thing. 2. With proper implementation, focus assist is easier than squinting through OVF even with special screens, and as you might know - I've tried quite a few of them. On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 5:14 PM, Kenneth Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com wrote: I used a Nikon Coolpix 5700 with an EVF, for evidence photography, years ago and in my opinion it was a great camera for static image capture but wasn't one to use for any sort of dynamic capture - there was a noticeable time delay between pushing the shutter release and the actual image capture - giving you the image that occurred after the one you wanted. Does this delay still exist in modern EVFs? -Original Message- From: Tom C caka...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey Years ago somebody bought a digital PS with a digital viewfinder. I was instantly turned off by the lines on the screen. Tell me it's better now??? Regards, Bob S. Hi Bob, You answered part of it yourself. :) This is today, that was years ago. No lines. I was mildly blown away by the IQ of the NEX-7 EVF. Some will whine about noise in low light, but then they should also whine that they can't see a heck of a lot through an optical VF when light levels are low. If anything, at very low light levels an EVF at least gives you a representation of what's being imaged, where with optical, one is almost blind. Take a look through a NEX-6 or 7 EVF. It's a 2.3 million pixel image. That's more than twice the pixel count of the LCD monitor. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
From all accounts the GXR is a very good camera system, but I don't understand it (at all) and when you have something that is radically different than everything else out there, the burden falls upon the marketing department to make it clear. I look at the GXR modules on Amazon and it is not clear to me what mounts they work with. If I come to the GXR with K-mount lenses I want to put on it, which module do I use? Do I need an adapter? What do I lose and what can I keep (A metering, AF? ) No clue. When I look at GXR mount A-12 for instance, I have no idea what A-12 stands for. Description says Universal mount handling Leica M lenses and more? Really? and more? What might the and more include? It's $500 and it isn't a lens. And it isn't a body. Then I see A12 lenses like the 28mm f2.5 for $540. Do I need the GXR mount A-12 in addition to this? I have a very low tolerance for feeling stupid (funny, since I feel that way most of the time) and products like this make me feel like I'm back in DOS land and have to crack the manual for every little thing or I get a syntax error. Not that I'm actually looking at the GXR, since I don't see how hit gains me a single thing over my K-5 ii. But if this is an example of how Ricoh is going to lead Pentax marketing to the Promised Land, let's just say I'm not holding my breath. On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Wed, Sep 11, 2013, John wrote: Every piece of Sony consumer electronics equipment I have ever owned failed had to be replaced exactly one day after the warranty expired. Timex bought Sony??? -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Nothing is sure but death and Pentaxes. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
My favorite second party camera is my iphone5. It's all I need in a compact camera. I've even done some work for the Times with it when circumstances required that. Paul via phone On Sep 11, 2013, at 9:56 PM, Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com wrote: From all accounts the GXR is a very good camera system, but I don't understand it (at all) and when you have something that is radically different than everything else out there, the burden falls upon the marketing department to make it clear. I look at the GXR modules on Amazon and it is not clear to me what mounts they work with. If I come to the GXR with K-mount lenses I want to put on it, which module do I use? Do I need an adapter? What do I lose and what can I keep (A metering, AF? ) No clue. When I look at GXR mount A-12 for instance, I have no idea what A-12 stands for. Description says Universal mount handling Leica M lenses and more? Really? and more? What might the and more include? It's $500 and it isn't a lens. And it isn't a body. Then I see A12 lenses like the 28mm f2.5 for $540. Do I need the GXR mount A-12 in addition to this? I have a very low tolerance for feeling stupid (funny, since I feel that way most of the time) and products like this make me feel like I'm back in DOS land and have to crack the manual for every little thing or I get a syntax error. Not that I'm actually looking at the GXR, since I don't see how hit gains me a single thing over my K-5 ii. But if this is an example of how Ricoh is going to lead Pentax marketing to the Promised Land, let's just say I'm not holding my breath. On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Wed, Sep 11, 2013, John wrote: Every piece of Sony consumer electronics equipment I have ever owned failed had to be replaced exactly one day after the warranty expired. Timex bought Sony??? -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Nothing is sure but death and Pentaxes. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
The way I understand it is that effectively each GXR module is the camera portion of a digital point and shoot. I.e. the lens, aperture, shutter and sensor. The body part is the computer half of a digital point and shoot, that holds the display, viewfinder, memory, buttons etc. The advantages this gives you over an SLR are that the lens and the sensors can be optimized to each other, and also that you can change lenses without getting dust on the sensor. I think that there are different body options, each with different ergonomics and features. My understanding is that if you want to use it as a normal replaceable lens camera, then there is the m-mount, which fits leica lenses. Since it has a shorter registratin distance than SLR lenses you can get (third party?) adapters to the leica M mount, which allow you to use, for example, Pentax K-mount lenses. The disadvantage of this system is that as far as I understand it, you cannot upgrade the sensor in the camera module. So, if I bought a 35mm lens with a K20 era sensor, that lens will never have better than K20 level sensor performance. On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 08:56:38PM -0500, Darren Addy wrote: From all accounts the GXR is a very good camera system, but I don't understand it (at all) and when you have something that is radically different than everything else out there, the burden falls upon the marketing department to make it clear. I look at the GXR modules on Amazon and it is not clear to me what mounts they work with. If I come to the GXR with K-mount lenses I want to put on it, which module do I use? Do I need an adapter? What do I lose and what can I keep (A metering, AF? ) No clue. When I look at GXR mount A-12 for instance, I have no idea what A-12 stands for. Description says Universal mount handling Leica M lenses and more? Really? and more? What might the and more include? It's $500 and it isn't a lens. And it isn't a body. Then I see A12 lenses like the 28mm f2.5 for $540. Do I need the GXR mount A-12 in addition to this? I have a very low tolerance for feeling stupid (funny, since I feel that way most of the time) and products like this make me feel like I'm back in DOS land and have to crack the manual for every little thing or I get a syntax error. Not that I'm actually looking at the GXR, since I don't see how hit gains me a single thing over my K-5 ii. But if this is an example of how Ricoh is going to lead Pentax marketing to the Promised Land, let's just say I'm not holding my breath. On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Wed, Sep 11, 2013, John wrote: Every piece of Sony consumer electronics equipment I have ever owned failed had to be replaced exactly one day after the warranty expired. Timex bought Sony??? -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Nothing is sure but death and Pentaxes. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Thanks Darren - you expressed my frustration exactly! I have 2-3 legacy Leica lenses, because of these I have a passing interest in any adapter or system that purports to provide me a chance to use those lenses digitally. I tried to look at the GXR and I just don't get it. Back in the day, there would have been a local camera store that sold something other than basic Canon and Nikon, and I could have gone down to ask and probably get a demo on the spot . . . stan On Sep 11, 2013, at 9:56 PM, Darren Addy wrote: From all accounts the GXR is a very good camera system, but I don't understand it (at all) and when you have something that is radically different than everything else out there, the burden falls upon the marketing department to make it clear. I look at the GXR modules on Amazon and it is not clear to me what mounts they work with. If I come to the GXR with K-mount lenses I want to put on it, which module do I use? Do I need an adapter? What do I lose and what can I keep (A metering, AF? ) No clue. When I look at GXR mount A-12 for instance, I have no idea what A-12 stands for. Description says Universal mount handling Leica M lenses and more? Really? and more? What might the and more include? It's $500 and it isn't a lens. And it isn't a body. Then I see A12 lenses like the 28mm f2.5 for $540. Do I need the GXR mount A-12 in addition to this? I have a very low tolerance for feeling stupid (funny, since I feel that way most of the time) and products like this make me feel like I'm back in DOS land and have to crack the manual for every little thing or I get a syntax error. Not that I'm actually looking at the GXR, since I don't see how hit gains me a single thing over my K-5 ii. But if this is an example of how Ricoh is going to lead Pentax marketing to the Promised Land, let's just say I'm not holding my breath. On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Wed, Sep 11, 2013, John wrote: Every piece of Sony consumer electronics equipment I have ever owned failed had to be replaced exactly one day after the warranty expired. Timex bought Sony??? -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Nothing is sure but death and Pentaxes. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Thanks Larry - that helps. On Sep 11, 2013, at 10:21 PM, Larry Colen wrote: The way I understand it is that effectively each GXR module is the camera portion of a digital point and shoot. I.e. the lens, aperture, shutter and sensor. The body part is the computer half of a digital point and shoot, that holds the display, viewfinder, memory, buttons etc. The advantages this gives you over an SLR are that the lens and the sensors can be optimized to each other, and also that you can change lenses without getting dust on the sensor. I think that there are different body options, each with different ergonomics and features. My understanding is that if you want to use it as a normal replaceable lens camera, then there is the m-mount, which fits leica lenses. Since it has a shorter registratin distance than SLR lenses you can get (third party?) adapters to the leica M mount, which allow you to use, for example, Pentax K-mount lenses. The disadvantage of this system is that as far as I understand it, you cannot upgrade the sensor in the camera module. So, if I bought a 35mm lens with a K20 era sensor, that lens will never have better than K20 level sensor performance. On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 08:56:38PM -0500, Darren Addy wrote: From all accounts the GXR is a very good camera system, but I don't understand it (at all) and when you have something that is radically different than everything else out there, the burden falls upon the marketing department to make it clear. I look at the GXR modules on Amazon and it is not clear to me what mounts they work with. If I come to the GXR with K-mount lenses I want to put on it, which module do I use? Do I need an adapter? What do I lose and what can I keep (A metering, AF? ) No clue. When I look at GXR mount A-12 for instance, I have no idea what A-12 stands for. Description says Universal mount handling Leica M lenses and more? Really? and more? What might the and more include? It's $500 and it isn't a lens. And it isn't a body. Then I see A12 lenses like the 28mm f2.5 for $540. Do I need the GXR mount A-12 in addition to this? I have a very low tolerance for feeling stupid (funny, since I feel that way most of the time) and products like this make me feel like I'm back in DOS land and have to crack the manual for every little thing or I get a syntax error. Not that I'm actually looking at the GXR, since I don't see how hit gains me a single thing over my K-5 ii. But if this is an example of how Ricoh is going to lead Pentax marketing to the Promised Land, let's just say I'm not holding my breath. On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Wed, Sep 11, 2013, John wrote: Every piece of Sony consumer electronics equipment I have ever owned failed had to be replaced exactly one day after the warranty expired. Timex bought Sony??? -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Nothing is sure but death and Pentaxes. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 10:26:30PM -0400, Stan Halpin wrote: Thanks Larry - that helps. I should post the disclaimer that I don't think that I have ever even seen a Ricoh GXR in real life. I've seen a lot of Suzuki GSXRs, but they are subtley different. It is possible that I was in error about there being different body modules for the GXR, what I thought were different bodies, were different cameras altogether (GR). It is possible that they have upgraded the body module, with better displays or something, but they don't seem to have one with an evf. On Sep 11, 2013, at 10:21 PM, Larry Colen wrote: The way I understand it is that effectively each GXR module is the camera portion of a digital point and shoot. I.e. the lens, aperture, shutter and sensor. The body part is the computer half of a digital point and shoot, that holds the display, viewfinder, memory, buttons etc. The advantages this gives you over an SLR are that the lens and the sensors can be optimized to each other, and also that you can change lenses without getting dust on the sensor. I think that there are different body options, each with different ergonomics and features. My understanding is that if you want to use it as a normal replaceable lens camera, then there is the m-mount, which fits leica lenses. Since it has a shorter registratin distance than SLR lenses you can get (third party?) adapters to the leica M mount, which allow you to use, for example, Pentax K-mount lenses. The disadvantage of this system is that as far as I understand it, you cannot upgrade the sensor in the camera module. So, if I bought a 35mm lens with a K20 era sensor, that lens will never have better than K20 level sensor performance. On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 08:56:38PM -0500, Darren Addy wrote: From all accounts the GXR is a very good camera system, but I don't understand it (at all) and when you have something that is radically different than everything else out there, the burden falls upon the marketing department to make it clear. I look at the GXR modules on Amazon and it is not clear to me what mounts they work with. If I come to the GXR with K-mount lenses I want to put on it, which module do I use? Do I need an adapter? What do I lose and what can I keep (A metering, AF? ) No clue. When I look at GXR mount A-12 for instance, I have no idea what A-12 stands for. Description says Universal mount handling Leica M lenses and more? Really? and more? What might the and more include? It's $500 and it isn't a lens. And it isn't a body. Then I see A12 lenses like the 28mm f2.5 for $540. Do I need the GXR mount A-12 in addition to this? I have a very low tolerance for feeling stupid (funny, since I feel that way most of the time) and products like this make me feel like I'm back in DOS land and have to crack the manual for every little thing or I get a syntax error. Not that I'm actually looking at the GXR, since I don't see how hit gains me a single thing over my K-5 ii. But if this is an example of how Ricoh is going to lead Pentax marketing to the Promised Land, let's just say I'm not holding my breath. On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: On Wed, Sep 11, 2013, John wrote: Every piece of Sony consumer electronics equipment I have ever owned failed had to be replaced exactly one day after the warranty expired. Timex bought Sony??? -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Nothing is sure but death and Pentaxes. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Darren, I don't know how your comments relate to the quotations by John and Aahz Maruch that you included. The Ricoh GXR is a unique camera system, and Ricoh has not been very good at explaining what it's all about. The concept is this: Build a compact, light camera as a pair of modules: - The first module is the body unit ... this is where the storage, IO, and user control interface lives. It is the same for all configurations of the camera. - The second module is the camera or mount unit ... this unit can be pretty free-form. At its basic, it is a sealed unit which combines a lens and a matched sensor. The name of a camera unit includes a letter code to indicate the sensor format (P = 1/2.3, S = 1/1.7, A = APS-C), a Megapixel count (10, 12, 16) to indicate the sensor resolution class, and a lens focal length equivalent range (28-300mm, 24-72mm, 24-85mm, 50mm Macro, 28mm). The notion being that you can build a compact ultra-zoom with a small sensor up to an APS-C sensor with a prime or short zoom and stay within a relatively compact, light range. So you have camera units P10 28-300mm, A12 50mm Macro, A16 24-85mm, etc. Camera units implement full AF features and capabilities, and all have leaf shutters. The mount unit decouples the lens from the sensor. This is the A12 Camera Mount, which means an APS-C 12Mpixel sensor fitted with a focal plane shutter and a Leica M-bayonet lens mount. The sensor in this mount unit is optimized to work with M-bayonet type RF lenses with 28mm mount register, but you can also use third party mount adapters to fit nearly any Leica Thread Mount or SLR lens to the A12 Camera Mount. Pick a body unit and any camera/mount unit, put them together, you have a camera. If you've chosen any of the camera units, what you have is a sophisticated compact AF camera with excellent customizability and controls. If you've chosen the A12 Camera Mount, what you have is a compact, digital, manual focus camera body that is optimized to work with M-bayonet lenses of your choosing. If you want to use a K-mount lens, you would purchase a Pentax K to M-bayonet mount adapter and fit that to the mount unit, then fit your lens. With any combination of body and camera/mount unit, you can also add an EVF (Ricoh VF-2), use the LCD, or fit an optical viewfinder of your choice. What does this system gain you over a K5 II? Mostly size and flexibility of configuration. It happens to work extremely well, when configured as body unit plus A12 Camera Mount, with some of the finest lenses around anywhere, of whatever mount, and yet in two seconds can be reconfigured to be a pocketable ultra-zoom point and shoot. Snap the body together with any camera unit and the mode dial set to the green camera, and you need to know nothing at all to use it. Fit the A12 Camera Mount, a Summicron-M 35mm f/2 ASPH lens, or a lens mount adapter and a Micro-Nikkor 200mm f/4 macro lens, and you have a manual focus super-high-quality camera suitable for the advanced amateur or pro demanding use. Ricoh's vision of the GXR system once included several other interesting units, like a unit for radio controlled photography, a hard-drive storage unit, a pocket-sized printer, etc, that were never brought to market. The GXR modular camera concept is more complex and expensive than a simple point and shoot or a traditional body = sensor and shutter, add lens model. It has unique qualities and value if you choose to make the effort to learn about it. Your other comments about Ricoh vis a vis their acquisition of Pentax, well, I'm not one to speculate on what Ricoh ought to be doing with their brand and products. I only care about what they have produced in interesting, high quality camera equipment. The GXR is one of those products. G On Sep 11, 2013, at 6:56 PM, Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com wrote: From all accounts the GXR is a very good camera system, but I don't understand it (at all) and when you have something that is radically different than everything else out there, the burden falls upon the marketing department to make it clear. I look at the GXR modules on Amazon and it is not clear to me what mounts they work with. If I come to the GXR with K-mount lenses I want to put on it, which module do I use? Do I need an adapter? What do I lose and what can I keep (A metering, AF? ) No clue. When I look at GXR mount A-12 for instance, I have no idea what A-12 stands for. Description says Universal mount handling Leica M lenses and more? Really? and more? What might the and more include? It's $500 and it isn't a lens. And it isn't a body. Then I see A12 lenses like the 28mm f2.5 for $540. Do I need the GXR mount A-12 in addition to this? I have a very low tolerance for feeling stupid (funny, since I feel that way most of the time) and products like this make me feel like I'm back in DOS land and have to crack the manual for every little thing or I get a
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Darren (Larry, et al), it is in fact very simple thing. Have a look: 1. You have a camera body. The body serves all the electronic functions: - card - battery - screen - user interface - external interfaces 2. You have two small sensor lens modules (I think it is 24-72 and 28-300 or whatever), where 24-72 has slightly bigger sensor. I did not see these in real life. 3. You have a number of big sensor lens modules: - A12-50 (A12 stands for 12 MP sensor, similar to that of K-r), which in fact is 33/2.5 macro lens. It goes to half life size. Here, as it has been earlier said, you cannot detach the lens from the sensor. This may be considered disadvantage. Advantages are size due to tight optimization and the idea that you needn't worry about the dust when you (don't :-) ) swap lenses. - A12-28 is built on top of the same sensor but has 18/2.5 lens, which translates to 28 mm EFL. For brevity and due to my laziness I omit the fractions from focal lengths. I have both of these modules and they are outstanding. The color and tonal quality appear to beat K-5, at least subjectively in my own eyes. Very fine instruments indeed(*). - A16 (I don't remember the rest of designation) is built on top of 16 MP sensor similar to that in K-5. It has 24-85/3.5-4.5 or some such zoom lens, which if I understand correctly has only discrete set of focal lengths. I've seen very nice pictures from this lens module but haven't tried it myself. - A12 Mount - this is the topping of the cream. This is just a sensor, a shutter and Leica M-mount. No electronic connections are offered for the lens. No AA-filter (I caught moire few times, this was fun) and lo and behold, for like USD 700 (including the body) you get yourself a proper Leica M-mount camera(**). That's it. There're other accessories and additions to this system - EVF, OVF, flash, cases, etc. You can look it up. Speaking of K-mount and adapters. I have Novoflex adapter. It is expensive but: 1. It is very precise in terms of workmanship and thus gives me proper infinity focus without any mental somersaults... 2. It has its own aperture actuator ring. That is, you can either handle the aperture from the lens, should it have aperture ring, or you can do so with this ring. It has no intermediate markings, only full open and fully closed marks, hence it is somewhat tricky to operate, but nonetheless you can use *any* K-mount lens on any M-mount camera, not just Ricoh. (*) Under bright light at nominal ISO. Unlike Pentax who has very wide tolerance in dark tones, Ricoh optimized their imaging engine to offer more recoverable data in bright areas. To me personally this is a huge plus. (**) There is a little catch. The M-moudule comes with the plastic cup of sorts. It serves to check whether the lens can damage the internals of the camera. Ricoh lists the lenses on the web-site/in the manual or wherever. But in general older collapsible lenses may be troublesome. HTH. Boris On 9/12/2013 4:56 AM, Darren Addy wrote: From all accounts the GXR is a very good camera system, but I don't understand it (at all) and when you have something that is radically different than everything else out there, the burden falls upon the marketing department to make it clear. I look at the GXR modules on Amazon and it is not clear to me what mounts they work with. If I come to the GXR with K-mount lenses I want to put on it, which module do I use? Do I need an adapter? What do I lose and what can I keep (A metering, AF? ) No clue. When I look at GXR mount A-12 for instance, I have no idea what A-12 stands for. Description says Universal mount handling Leica M lenses and more? Really? and more? What might the and more include? It's $500 and it isn't a lens. And it isn't a body. Then I see A12 lenses like the 28mm f2.5 for $540. Do I need the GXR mount A-12 in addition to this? I have a very low tolerance for feeling stupid (funny, since I feel that way most of the time) and products like this make me feel like I'm back in DOS land and have to crack the manual for every little thing or I get a syntax error. Not that I'm actually looking at the GXR, since I don't see how hit gains me a single thing over my K-5 ii. But if this is an example of how Ricoh is going to lead Pentax marketing to the Promised Land, let's just say I'm not holding my breath. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Not to get the thread back to the OP's original question, but I've been thinking hard about the original question (for myself) and I'm going to sound like a total fanboy, but I just can't imagine switching systems from Pentax to anything. I have to have m42 lens compatiblility (which knocks out Nikon). If Ricoh announced that they had stopped making DSLRs and lenses tomorrow, I wouldn't feel a real need to switch until my Pentax body died or software had moved on to the point that it couldn't read my Pentax RAW files. Like the OP, I want a real viewfinder and I probably don't want a smaller sensor (mostly because I like wide and the smaller the sensor the harder it is to go wide with the focal length crop factor.) If LENSES are important, but you don't want HEAVY (two of the original poster's prerequisites) then I don't think you can do better than Pentax. They have nice light zooms and small light primes (Limiteds). The K-5 body is not overly large or heavy. Honestly, if the K-5 body is too heavy for you then I would hold off buying a camera and doing a little weight training. The K-5 body is 670 grams (with battery). You only save 34 grams by going to the entry level K-500. By contrast, the original Spotmatic in 1960 weighed 621 grams. As was mentioned, you can get a K-5 body for under your $600 figure, probably with a kit lens even. The beauty of the Pentax is, if money is tight you can still get superb manual focus optics for not a lot of money. Very little money if you want to go back to the superb Takumars, although they will weigh more than more modern plastic-bodied lenses like the F and FA series. When you have money, you can get a Really Good lens, either a Pentax or a Sigma EX, or some Tamrons. The low light performance of the K-5 will blow you away, particularly if you are coming from Canon. On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Zos Xavius zosxav...@gmail.com wrote: Who knows. My guess is that its the same sensor with a new image processing engine. On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 11:54 PM, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: On 9/9/2013 11:50 PM, Zos Xavius wrote: Yuh. k-7 and k20D have the same sensor. A samsung sensor. Its true there is no standard for aps-c. Generally canon is a 1.6x crop and nikon/sony/everyone else is a 1.5x crop. I don't know about you, but I'm rather glad I'm not a canon crop-sensor user and not just because of the reduced FoV. I have to respectfully disagree, Zos. My understanding is that the addition of 720p video at the very least ought to have changed the electronics in the sensor assembly. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Nothing is sure but death and Pentaxes. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
on 2013-09-10 13:16 Darren Addy wrote The K-5 body is 670 grams (with battery). i think that's without battery — note that it says 740g (w/ battery SD card) here: http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-camera-articles/115440-pentax-k-5-pentax-k-r-compared.html and 750g (w/ battery) here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentax_K-5 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
APS-C stands for Advanced Photo System - C for Classic - 25.1 × 16.7 mm; aspect ratio 3:2, so there actually IS a standard, even if it's universally ignored. On 9/9/2013 4:50 PM, Zos Xavius wrote: Yuh. k-7 and k20D have the same sensor. A samsung sensor. Its true there is no standard for aps-c. Generally canon is a 1.6x crop and nikon/sony/everyone else is a 1.5x crop. I don't know about you, but I'm rather glad I'm not a canon crop-sensor user and not just because of the reduced FoV. On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 10:10 PM, P.J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote: DPReview seems to think that the K-5 and K-7 have exactly the same size sensor. I don't remember where I got those numbers from but IIRC they came from the Pentax web site when I first bought my K20D. When the K-7 was released the sensor was reported to be the same as the K-20D. I could be wrong in the particular. However there is no generally accepted standard specification for the dimensions of APS-C sensors. On 9/8/2013 8:31 PM, Zos Xavius wrote: Hmmmaccording to dxomark: K-7 - 23.4x15.6mm K-5 - 23.7x15.7mm If those numbers are right, the k-7 is exactly 3:2 while the k-5 is slightly wider. Comparing pixel dimensions I get the following aspect ratios: K-5 - 2:3.02 K-7 - 2:3.01 Fairly negligible if you ask me. On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 8:11 PM, P.J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote: The Samsung sensor family used in the K20D and K-7 has a slightly smaller footprint on the order of 10ths of a mm than the Sony sensors used before in the *ist-D and all the other Pentax DSLRs. It seems like a small enough difference. but that can mean a huge difference in AOV when dealing with wide angle lenses. The K-20D and K-7 use a 16x23mm sensor with a ~28.02mm diagonal. The other Pentax DSLRS, (and Nikon DX DSLRs) use a 15.7x23.7mm sensor with a ~28.4mm diagonal. Besides being slightly smaller the Samsung sensor isn't exactly the 2:3 aspect ratio ratio either. When switching between my *ist-Ds and my K20D I actually notice the difference in aspect ratio quite noticeable especially when printing. Canon uses a 14.9 x 22.3mm sensor for it's APS-C sensor cameras with a diagonal of ~26.8mm So there is a much larger difference between Canon and any of the Samsung or Sony sensor cameras, but if you buy a say a 10mm fisheye lens from a third party manufacture that comes in multiple mounts, it may be actually be 180° over the diagonal of one of those sensors or none of them. On 9/8/2013 7:11 PM, Zos Xavius wrote: Correct me if I am totally wrong, but isn't the k-7 sensor size the same as sony sensors with a 1.5x crop? Canon is the only oddball I know of with their slightly smaller 1.6x crop sensor. OkI just googled it. The difference is .1mm horizontally between the k-7 and k-5. Not enough to even noticable. On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 1:54 PM, P.J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote: That's true, it's around 7.5mm. However almost all of this is pretty fuzzy. A full frame fisheye is supposed to cover 180° across the diagonal of the format. Depending on the curvature that the lens imparts that can be done with a number of different focal lengths in the same ball park can be designed to do that. Then when you get to APS-C, well, there's Canon's standard sensor size, the Sony sensors which are slightly larger, the K20D/K-7 with a sensor that's intermediate between them, and whatever Samsung is using these days. Hell, even full frame digital sensors aren't exactly the same size as the standard film gate for 35mm film cameras. So it's unlikely that a full frame fisheye will actually fit the classical definition on any format. Though it would be easiest to do for m4/3 and 4/3 system cameras since the sensor dimensions are fully specified. On 9/8/2013 1:31 PM, Dario Bonazza wrote: Fisheye for m4/3 is around 7.5mm. This is what I have: http://www.ephotozine.com/article/samyang-7-5mm-f-3-5-umc-fisheye-lens-review-19847 Dario -Messaggio originale- From: P.J. Alling Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2013 7:12 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey With rectilinear lenses doing format translations is easy. AOV is AOV, but Fisheye lenses make hash those kinds of comparisons. I have a Pentax 17mm fisheye, and an old 12mm semi circular, (on film), fisheye made by Sigma in the early 60's. I don't have any examples currently, (and don't even have my film scanner attached to my current machine), but the 12mm on APS-C digital actually seemed to cover more than the 17mm did on film even though the 12mm was 18mm/e. I'm pretty sure that comparing fisheye lenses, AOV, by focal length is a fools errand. On 9/8/2013 12:53 PM, Aahz Maruch wrote: On Sun, Sep 08, 2013, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: On Sep 7, 2013, at 9:43 PM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: Sure, but there's nothing like the 8mm fisheye you can get for APS-C for 12mm/e. For most purposes
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
I believe that's what it says in the promotional literature. On 9/10/2013 2:38 PM, Zos Xavius wrote: Who knows. My guess is that its the same sensor with a new image processing engine. On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 11:54 PM, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: On 9/9/2013 11:50 PM, Zos Xavius wrote: Yuh. k-7 and k20D have the same sensor. A samsung sensor. Its true there is no standard for aps-c. Generally canon is a 1.6x crop and nikon/sony/everyone else is a 1.5x crop. I don't know about you, but I'm rather glad I'm not a canon crop-sensor user and not just because of the reduced FoV. I have to respectfully disagree, Zos. My understanding is that the addition of 720p video at the very least ought to have changed the electronics in the sensor assembly. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Who knows. My guess is that its the same sensor with a new image processing engine. On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 11:54 PM, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: On 9/9/2013 11:50 PM, Zos Xavius wrote: Yuh. k-7 and k20D have the same sensor. A samsung sensor. Its true there is no standard for aps-c. Generally canon is a 1.6x crop and nikon/sony/everyone else is a 1.5x crop. I don't know about you, but I'm rather glad I'm not a canon crop-sensor user and not just because of the reduced FoV. I have to respectfully disagree, Zos. My understanding is that the addition of 720p video at the very least ought to have changed the electronics in the sensor assembly. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 04:47:54PM -0700, Larry Colen wrote: This link showed up in my mailbox today, Adorama's review of the OMD EM-1: http://www.adorama.com/ALC/BlogArticle.aspx?googleid=0014299alias=Olympus-OM-D-E-M1-Hands-Onutm_source=RSYSutm_medium=Emailutm_campaign=Email090913OlympusNPAj=Email090913OlympusNPA Hmm. I'm pretty sure that I will be buying one of these. I've said my next camera would be the replacement for the current OM-D; I see nothing about the features for this camera to change my mind. It probably won't be cheap (especially with the f/2.8 zoom lens), but I find myself carrying the E-PL1 quite a bit nowadays and leaving the K-5 at home, even though the E-PL1 does have more than a few annoying habits. They, of course, say little if anything bad about it. If I were going u4/3, I would get the latest sensor available. My guess is that with a sensor several years newer than the K-5, the IQ will approach that of the K-5. With half the sensor area, the sensors will be one or two Moore's cycles behind what can be done on APS. As I mentioned earlier, we seem to be in the middle of camera announcement season, so if you can hold off buying something new for a couple of months, you'll probably get a lot more benefit than waiting a couple of months if it were June. When new models come out, you have your choice of better performance, or good deals on the last generation. Alternatvely, if u4/3 looks like the way you want to go, you can pick up a cheap used second body now. One that is a couple generations old, and which will do fine in bright light (under ISO 800), then in six months or so start looking at the new OMD EM1, or whatever. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
This link showed up in my mailbox today, Adorama's review of the OMD EM-1: http://www.adorama.com/ALC/BlogArticle.aspx?googleid=0014299alias=Olympus-OM-D-E-M1-Hands-Onutm_source=RSYSutm_medium=Emailutm_campaign=Email090913OlympusNPAj=Email090913OlympusNPA They, of course, say little if anything bad about it. If I were going u4/3, I would get the latest sensor available. My guess is that with a sensor several years newer than the K-5, the IQ will approach that of the K-5. With half the sensor area, the sensors will be one or two Moore's cycles behind what can be done on APS. As I mentioned earlier, we seem to be in the middle of camera announcement season, so if you can hold off buying something new for a couple of months, you'll probably get a lot more benefit than waiting a couple of months if it were June. When new models come out, you have your choice of better performance, or good deals on the last generation. Alternatvely, if u4/3 looks like the way you want to go, you can pick up a cheap used second body now. One that is a couple generations old, and which will do fine in bright light (under ISO 800), then in six months or so start looking at the new OMD EM1, or whatever. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Couldn't have said it better, Darren. Rick http://photo.net/photos/RickW - Original Message - From: Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Cc: Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 3:16 PM Subject: Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey Not to get the thread back to the OP's original question, but I've been thinking hard about the original question (for myself) and I'm going to sound like a total fanboy, but I just can't imagine switching systems from Pentax to anything. I have to have m42 lens compatiblility (which knocks out Nikon). If Ricoh announced that they had stopped making DSLRs and lenses tomorrow, I wouldn't feel a real need to switch until my Pentax body died or software had moved on to the point that it couldn't read my Pentax RAW files. Like the OP, I want a real viewfinder and I probably don't want a smaller sensor (mostly because I like wide and the smaller the sensor the harder it is to go wide with the focal length crop factor.) If LENSES are important, but you don't want HEAVY (two of the original poster's prerequisites) then I don't think you can do better than Pentax. They have nice light zooms and small light primes (Limiteds). The K-5 body is not overly large or heavy. Honestly, if the K-5 body is too heavy for you then I would hold off buying a camera and doing a little weight training. The K-5 body is 670 grams (with battery). You only save 34 grams by going to the entry level K-500. By contrast, the original Spotmatic in 1960 weighed 621 grams. As was mentioned, you can get a K-5 body for under your $600 figure, probably with a kit lens even. The beauty of the Pentax is, if money is tight you can still get superb manual focus optics for not a lot of money. Very little money if you want to go back to the superb Takumars, although they will weigh more than more modern plastic-bodied lenses like the F and FA series. When you have money, you can get a Really Good lens, either a Pentax or a Sigma EX, or some Tamrons. The low light performance of the K-5 will blow you away, particularly if you are coming from Canon. On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Zos Xavius zosxav...@gmail.com wrote: Who knows. My guess is that its the same sensor with a new image processing engine. On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 11:54 PM, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: On 9/9/2013 11:50 PM, Zos Xavius wrote: Yuh. k-7 and k20D have the same sensor. A samsung sensor. Its true there is no standard for aps-c. Generally canon is a 1.6x crop and nikon/sony/everyone else is a 1.5x crop. I don't know about you, but I'm rather glad I'm not a canon crop-sensor user and not just because of the reduced FoV. I have to respectfully disagree, Zos. My understanding is that the addition of 720p video at the very least ought to have changed the electronics in the sensor assembly. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Nothing is sure but death and Pentaxes. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
I'd originally not suggested the E-M5 to Marnie as it was over her budget AND a bit larger than she was looking for. The GX7 I suggested she might look at was also over her budget, but the form factor (compact with built-in EVF) was in line with what she wanted. The new E-M1 is larger still than the E-M5 by a little bit, and it's another $400. It will be my next camera, though ... I've been waiting for this one since early 2012 when I sold the E-5. Knowing Olympus pro-grade bodies as I do, it is going to be a terrific performer with my 11-22 and 35 Macro lenses. And the Novoflex Leica-R to mFT adapter is now on order. :-) I have no worries about the sensor performance. I only rarely find myself needing stratospheric sensitivity settings and even the 2003 E-1 does a fantastic job at ISO 1600, acceptable at 3200. I'm quite sure this new sensor will perform satisfactorily at any setting I'll ever use. Godfrey On Sep 10, 2013, at 4:47 PM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: This link showed up in my mailbox today, Adorama's review of the OMD EM-1: http://www.adorama.com/ALC/BlogArticle.aspx?googleid=0014299alias=Olympus-OM-D-E-M1-Hands-Onutm_source=RSYSutm_medium=Emailutm_campaign=Email090913OlympusNPAj=Email090913OlympusNPA They, of course, say little if anything bad about it. If I were going u4/3, I would get the latest sensor available. My guess is that with a sensor several years newer than the K-5, the IQ will approach that of the K-5. With half the sensor area, the sensors will be one or two Moore's cycles behind what can be done on APS. As I mentioned earlier, we seem to be in the middle of camera announcement season, so if you can hold off buying something new for a couple of months, you'll probably get a lot more benefit than waiting a couple of months if it were June. When new models come out, you have your choice of better performance, or good deals on the last generation. Alternatvely, if u4/3 looks like the way you want to go, you can pick up a cheap used second body now. One that is a couple generations old, and which will do fine in bright light (under ISO 800), then in six months or so start looking at the new OMD EM1, or whatever. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
There is a bit of a disconnect in recommending a $2200 camera to someone who just sold their last camera for financial reasons (no matter how hopefully very temporarily). She also said she is looking in the $400-600 range for a body. On 9/10/13, Godfrey DiGiorgi godd...@me.com wrote: I'd originally not suggested the E-M5 to Marnie as it was over her budget AND a bit larger than she was looking for. The GX7 I suggested she might look at was also over her budget, but the form factor (compact with built-in EVF) was in line with what she wanted. The new E-M1 is larger still than the E-M5 by a little bit, and it's another $400. It will be my next camera, though ... I've been waiting for this one since early 2012 when I sold the E-5. Knowing Olympus pro-grade bodies as I do, it is going to be a terrific performer with my 11-22 and 35 Macro lenses. And the Novoflex Leica-R to mFT adapter is now on order. :-) I have no worries about the sensor performance. I only rarely find myself needing stratospheric sensitivity settings and even the 2003 E-1 does a fantastic job at ISO 1600, acceptable at 3200. I'm quite sure this new sensor will perform satisfactorily at any setting I'll ever use. Godfrey On Sep 10, 2013, at 4:47 PM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: This link showed up in my mailbox today, Adorama's review of the OMD EM-1: http://www.adorama.com/ALC/BlogArticle.aspx?googleid=0014299alias=Olympus-OM-D-E-M1-Hands-Onutm_source=RSYSutm_medium=Emailutm_campaign=Email090913OlympusNPAj=Email090913OlympusNPA They, of course, say little if anything bad about it. If I were going u4/3, I would get the latest sensor available. My guess is that with a sensor several years newer than the K-5, the IQ will approach that of the K-5. With half the sensor area, the sensors will be one or two Moore's cycles behind what can be done on APS. As I mentioned earlier, we seem to be in the middle of camera announcement season, so if you can hold off buying something new for a couple of months, you'll probably get a lot more benefit than waiting a couple of months if it were June. When new models come out, you have your choice of better performance, or good deals on the last generation. Alternatvely, if u4/3 looks like the way you want to go, you can pick up a cheap used second body now. One that is a couple generations old, and which will do fine in bright light (under ISO 800), then in six months or so start looking at the new OMD EM1, or whatever. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Nothing is sure but death and Pentaxes. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 09:21:21PM -0500, Darren Addy wrote: There is a bit of a disconnect in recommending a $2200 camera to someone who just sold their last camera for financial reasons (no matter how hopefully very temporarily). She also said she is looking in the $400-600 range for a body. At least he didn't recommend a Leica M9. :-) -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On Sep 10, 2013, at 7:27 PM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 09:21:21PM -0500, Darren Addy wrote: There is a bit of a disconnect in recommending a $2200 camera to someone who just sold their last camera for financial reasons (no matter how hopefully very temporarily). She also said she is looking in the $400-600 range for a body. At least he didn't recommend a Leica M9. :-) Funny. As I said, I didn't recommend even the E-M5 as I suspected it would be well over the budget even used. The Leica M9, of course, does not have any zoom lenses so doesn't meet another of Marnie's criteria in the first place. Never mind the price, and the fact that it's somewhat larger/heavier than even the Olympus E-M1. Let's not get into a pointless debate over image quality. I know which system I prefer on that score, and I know which one you prefer. Let's leave it there: either of these systems can make outstanding photographs, and each has its strengths and weaknesses. G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 07:50:59PM -0700, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: On Sep 10, 2013, at 7:27 PM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 09:21:21PM -0500, Darren Addy wrote: There is a bit of a disconnect in recommending a $2200 camera to someone who just sold their last camera for financial reasons (no matter how hopefully very temporarily). She also said she is looking in the $400-600 range for a body. At least he didn't recommend a Leica M9. :-) Funny. I thought so. You don't have to worry until I *stop* teasing. That's the sign I'm mad at you. As I said, I didn't recommend even the E-M5 as I suspected it would be well over the budget even used. The Leica M9, of course, does not have any zoom lenses so doesn't meet another of Marnie's criteria in the first place. Never mind the price, and the fact that it's somewhat larger/heavier than even the Olympus E-M1. Horses for courses and tools for fools. If I could justify the money, I'd have an M9, at least for a little while. For that matter, I could say the same about a Corvette. The K-5 is pretty much on the threshold of what I need in sensor performance for enough of my photography. For me, anything that doesn't perform as well is something that I would buy as a toy, or for a specific application. It looks as if the new OM-D will have crossed that threshold. The last of u4/3 is nearly there, and if I had the budget I could see owning a kit for when I need things like low light manual focus, and fast wide angle lenses. For me, the size and weight of the K-5 are not problems. I do notice the difference when I pick up my little stormtrooper (K-x), and there are times that it would be nice if it were smaller, especially with the 16-50. When I bought my K100Ds, I saw it as a temporary camera until I could afford one that met my performance needs, and the K-5 II is that camera. It is far from perfect, though most of my complaints could be solved if they let me have access to the source code and compiler. Let's not get into a pointless debate over image quality. I know which system I prefer on that score, and I know which one you prefer. Let's leave it there: either of these systems can make outstanding photographs, and each has its strengths and weaknesses. Exactly. I am, however, eagerly awaiting whatever it is that prompted Ricoh to offer rebates on the K-5. I don't absolutely *need* better image quality, but there are certainly some features that I'd love to have. G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On Tue, Sep 10, 2013, Darren Addy wrote: Like the OP, I want a real viewfinder and I probably don't want a smaller sensor (mostly because I like wide and the smaller the sensor the harder it is to go wide with the focal length crop factor.) One issue for me is that I really do like a tilting screen for macro photography, I find it helps a lot. If LENSES are important, but you don't want HEAVY (two of the original poster's prerequisites) then I don't think you can do better than Pentax. They have nice light zooms and small light primes (Limiteds). The K-5 body is not overly large or heavy. Honestly, if the K-5 body is too heavy for you then I would hold off buying a camera and doing a little weight training. The K-5 body is 670 grams (with battery). You only save 34 grams by going to the entry level K-500. By contrast, the original Spotmatic in 1960 weighed 621 grams. As was mentioned, you can get a K-5 body for under your $600 figure, probably with a kit lens even. Still, if you're assembling a travel kit, shaving 20-30% in total bulk/weight can be significant. And aside from the Bigma, there aren't any current long zooms (compared with two 300mm -- 600mm/e -- in m4/3). This isn't an argument against Pentax, mind, I'm still flipping back and forth in my own mind whether the better lens variety and sensor quality with Pentax is more worthwhile. -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On 9/8/13 3:19 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: On Sep 7, 2013, at 9:43 PM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: Sure, but there's nothing like the 8mm fisheye you can get for APS-C for 12mm/e. For most purposes, you're correct that's sufficient, but people who really care about extreme wide-angle are likely to be less satisfied with m4/3. For most purposes ... Don't be ridiculous. A fish-eye lens is a specialty lens, and the ONLY wide-angle lens focal length not listed in native Micro-FourThirds mount. Perhaps that's because there's a superb fish-eye lens in FourThirds SLR mount, which work on mFT bodies with any of the four available, dedicated Panasonic and Olympus FourThirds to Micro-FourThirds mount adapters for 100% full function operation. Olympus Zuiko Digital 8mm F3.5 Diagonal Fisheye Lens: http://four-thirds.org/en/fourthirds/single.html#i_008mm_f035_olympus BH Photo: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/405508-REG/Olympus_261010_8mm_f_3_5_Fisheye_ED.html Your comment sounds like it fits one of the categories in Ctein's most recent column on The Online Photographer: http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2013/09/bad-science-vs-good-science-a-guide-for-the-layperson-part-1.html Check out the God of the Gaps category. ;-) G Ctein is the weakest part of TOP. He appears to only write to try to convince people he's really smart, and it's tiring. I've gotten to where I just ignore the days he contributes. Disclaimer: I read the linked article, and it was more of the same. If Mike J. had written it, I think he'd probably jump on God of the gaps folks as those in the photo world who dismiss a lens line because it doesn't have a specific lens. You know, make it relevant to the readers. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On 9/7/13 2:45 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote: Marnie, If you get a chance, you should see what Doug Brewer is posting with a Fujifilm X100 over on Google+. I know it's a bit like saying it's the pots and not the chef after a fine meal, but his photos are really great with the little rangefinder. Regards, Bob S. you're very kind, Bob. I should point out that not everything I post comes from the X100; my K7 is still king of the bag for the majority of the serious shoots. The X100 comes along, though, and I get some good frames out of it. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Yuh. k-7 and k20D have the same sensor. A samsung sensor. Its true there is no standard for aps-c. Generally canon is a 1.6x crop and nikon/sony/everyone else is a 1.5x crop. I don't know about you, but I'm rather glad I'm not a canon crop-sensor user and not just because of the reduced FoV. On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 10:10 PM, P.J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote: DPReview seems to think that the K-5 and K-7 have exactly the same size sensor. I don't remember where I got those numbers from but IIRC they came from the Pentax web site when I first bought my K20D. When the K-7 was released the sensor was reported to be the same as the K-20D. I could be wrong in the particular. However there is no generally accepted standard specification for the dimensions of APS-C sensors. On 9/8/2013 8:31 PM, Zos Xavius wrote: Hmmmaccording to dxomark: K-7 - 23.4x15.6mm K-5 - 23.7x15.7mm If those numbers are right, the k-7 is exactly 3:2 while the k-5 is slightly wider. Comparing pixel dimensions I get the following aspect ratios: K-5 - 2:3.02 K-7 - 2:3.01 Fairly negligible if you ask me. On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 8:11 PM, P.J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote: The Samsung sensor family used in the K20D and K-7 has a slightly smaller footprint on the order of 10ths of a mm than the Sony sensors used before in the *ist-D and all the other Pentax DSLRs. It seems like a small enough difference. but that can mean a huge difference in AOV when dealing with wide angle lenses. The K-20D and K-7 use a 16x23mm sensor with a ~28.02mm diagonal. The other Pentax DSLRS, (and Nikon DX DSLRs) use a 15.7x23.7mm sensor with a ~28.4mm diagonal. Besides being slightly smaller the Samsung sensor isn't exactly the 2:3 aspect ratio ratio either. When switching between my *ist-Ds and my K20D I actually notice the difference in aspect ratio quite noticeable especially when printing. Canon uses a 14.9 x 22.3mm sensor for it's APS-C sensor cameras with a diagonal of ~26.8mm So there is a much larger difference between Canon and any of the Samsung or Sony sensor cameras, but if you buy a say a 10mm fisheye lens from a third party manufacture that comes in multiple mounts, it may be actually be 180° over the diagonal of one of those sensors or none of them. On 9/8/2013 7:11 PM, Zos Xavius wrote: Correct me if I am totally wrong, but isn't the k-7 sensor size the same as sony sensors with a 1.5x crop? Canon is the only oddball I know of with their slightly smaller 1.6x crop sensor. OkI just googled it. The difference is .1mm horizontally between the k-7 and k-5. Not enough to even noticable. On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 1:54 PM, P.J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote: That's true, it's around 7.5mm. However almost all of this is pretty fuzzy. A full frame fisheye is supposed to cover 180° across the diagonal of the format. Depending on the curvature that the lens imparts that can be done with a number of different focal lengths in the same ball park can be designed to do that. Then when you get to APS-C, well, there's Canon's standard sensor size, the Sony sensors which are slightly larger, the K20D/K-7 with a sensor that's intermediate between them, and whatever Samsung is using these days. Hell, even full frame digital sensors aren't exactly the same size as the standard film gate for 35mm film cameras. So it's unlikely that a full frame fisheye will actually fit the classical definition on any format. Though it would be easiest to do for m4/3 and 4/3 system cameras since the sensor dimensions are fully specified. On 9/8/2013 1:31 PM, Dario Bonazza wrote: Fisheye for m4/3 is around 7.5mm. This is what I have: http://www.ephotozine.com/article/samyang-7-5mm-f-3-5-umc-fisheye-lens-review-19847 Dario -Messaggio originale- From: P.J. Alling Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2013 7:12 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey With rectilinear lenses doing format translations is easy. AOV is AOV, but Fisheye lenses make hash those kinds of comparisons. I have a Pentax 17mm fisheye, and an old 12mm semi circular, (on film), fisheye made by Sigma in the early 60's. I don't have any examples currently, (and don't even have my film scanner attached to my current machine), but the 12mm on APS-C digital actually seemed to cover more than the 17mm did on film even though the 12mm was 18mm/e. I'm pretty sure that comparing fisheye lenses, AOV, by focal length is a fools errand. On 9/8/2013 12:53 PM, Aahz Maruch wrote: On Sun, Sep 08, 2013, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: On Sep 7, 2013, at 9:43 PM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: Sure, but there's nothing like the 8mm fisheye you can get for APS-C for 12mm/e. For most purposes, you're correct that's sufficient, but people who really care about extreme wide-angle are likely to be less
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On 9/9/2013 11:50 PM, Zos Xavius wrote: Yuh. k-7 and k20D have the same sensor. A samsung sensor. Its true there is no standard for aps-c. Generally canon is a 1.6x crop and nikon/sony/everyone else is a 1.5x crop. I don't know about you, but I'm rather glad I'm not a canon crop-sensor user and not just because of the reduced FoV. I have to respectfully disagree, Zos. My understanding is that the addition of 720p video at the very least ought to have changed the electronics in the sensor assembly. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On Sep 7, 2013, at 9:43 PM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: Sure, but there's nothing like the 8mm fisheye you can get for APS-C for 12mm/e. For most purposes, you're correct that's sufficient, but people who really care about extreme wide-angle are likely to be less satisfied with m4/3. For most purposes ... Don't be ridiculous. A fish-eye lens is a specialty lens, and the ONLY wide-angle lens focal length not listed in native Micro-FourThirds mount. Perhaps that's because there's a superb fish-eye lens in FourThirds SLR mount, which work on mFT bodies with any of the four available, dedicated Panasonic and Olympus FourThirds to Micro-FourThirds mount adapters for 100% full function operation. Olympus Zuiko Digital 8mm F3.5 Diagonal Fisheye Lens: http://four-thirds.org/en/fourthirds/single.html#i_008mm_f035_olympus BH Photo: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/405508-REG/Olympus_261010_8mm_f_3_5_Fisheye_ED.html Your comment sounds like it fits one of the categories in Ctein's most recent column on The Online Photographer: http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2013/09/bad-science-vs-good-science-a-guide-for-the-layperson-part-1.html Check out the God of the Gaps category. ;-) G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Oh, foolish me: I didn't realize that Panasonic also ships their own 8mm fisheye lens in Micro-FourThirds mount! Panasonic : LUMIX G FISHEYE 8mm F3.5 http://four-thirds.org/en/microft/single.html#i_008mm_f035_panasonic BH Photo: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/731983-REG/Panasonic_H_F008_Lumix_G_Fisheye_8mm_F3_5.html It's even $150 less expensive than the Olympus FourThirds SLR offering, and no adapter needed. :-) G On Sep 8, 2013, at 12:19 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi godd...@me.com wrote: On Sep 7, 2013, at 9:43 PM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: Sure, but there's nothing like the 8mm fisheye you can get for APS-C for 12mm/e. For most purposes, you're correct that's sufficient, but people who really care about extreme wide-angle are likely to be less satisfied with m4/3. For most purposes ... Don't be ridiculous. A fish-eye lens is a specialty lens, and the ONLY wide-angle lens focal length not listed in native Micro-FourThirds mount. Perhaps that's because there's a superb fish-eye lens in FourThirds SLR mount, which work on mFT bodies with any of the four available, dedicated Panasonic and Olympus FourThirds to Micro-FourThirds mount adapters for 100% full function operation. Olympus Zuiko Digital 8mm F3.5 Diagonal Fisheye Lens: http://four-thirds.org/en/fourthirds/single.html#i_008mm_f035_olympus BH Photo: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/405508-REG/Olympus_261010_8mm_f_3_5_Fisheye_ED.html Your comment sounds like it fits one of the categories in Ctein's most recent column on The Online Photographer: http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2013/09/bad-science-vs-good-science-a-guide-for-the-layperson-part-1.html Check out the God of the Gaps category. ;-) G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Just because there is a focal length fisheye that gives the same FOV as one for APSC or FF for that matter, that doesnt mean it will perform as well as a system. On 9/8/2013 3:24 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: Oh, foolish me: I didn't realize that Panasonic also ships their own 8mm fisheye lens in Micro-FourThirds mount! Panasonic : LUMIX G FISHEYE 8mm F3.5 http://four-thirds.org/en/microft/single.html#i_008mm_f035_panasonic BH Photo: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/731983-REG/Panasonic_H_F008_Lumix_G_Fisheye_8mm_F3_5.html It's even $150 less expensive than the Olympus FourThirds SLR offering, and no adapter needed. :-) G On Sep 8, 2013, at 12:19 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi godd...@me.com wrote: On Sep 7, 2013, at 9:43 PM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: Sure, but there's nothing like the 8mm fisheye you can get for APS-C for 12mm/e. For most purposes, you're correct that's sufficient, but people who really care about extreme wide-angle are likely to be less satisfied with m4/3. For most purposes ... Don't be ridiculous. A fish-eye lens is a specialty lens, and the ONLY wide-angle lens focal length not listed in native Micro-FourThirds mount. Perhaps that's because there's a superb fish-eye lens in FourThirds SLR mount, which work on mFT bodies with any of the four available, dedicated Panasonic and Olympus FourThirds to Micro-FourThirds mount adapters for 100% full function operation. Olympus Zuiko Digital 8mm F3.5 Diagonal Fisheye Lens: http://four-thirds.org/en/fourthirds/single.html#i_008mm_f035_olympus BH Photo: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/405508-REG/Olympus_261010_8mm_f_3_5_Fisheye_ED.html Your comment sounds like it fits one of the categories in Ctein's most recent column on The Online Photographer: http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2013/09/bad-science-vs-good-science-a-guide-for-the-layperson-part-1.html Check out the God of the Gaps category. ;-) G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- J.C. O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -- -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
The funny thing is, I'd be willing to bet that Aahz knows Ctein personally. Godfrey DiGiorgi godd...@me.com wrote: On Sep 7, 2013, at 9:43 PM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: Sure, but there's nothing like the 8mm fisheye you can get for APS-C for 12mm/e. For most purposes, you're correct that's sufficient, but people who really care about extreme wide-angle are likely to be less satisfied with m4/3. For most purposes ... Don't be ridiculous. A fish-eye lens is a specialty lens, and the ONLY wide-angle lens focal length not listed in native Micro-FourThirds mount. Perhaps that's because there's a superb fish-eye lens in FourThirds SLR mount, which work on mFT bodies with any of the four available, dedicated Panasonic and Olympus FourThirds to Micro-FourThirds mount adapters for 100% full function operation. Olympus Zuiko Digital 8mm F3.5 Diagonal Fisheye Lens: http://four-thirds.org/en/fourthirds/single.html#i_008mm_f035_olympus BH Photo: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/405508-REG/Olympus_261010_8mm_f_3_5_Fisheye_ED.html Your comment sounds like it fits one of the categories in Ctein's most recent column on The Online Photographer: http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2013/09/bad-science-vs-good-science-a-guide-for-the-layperson-part-1.html Check out the God of the Gaps category. ;-) G -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Well, I've narrowed down my choices to: Canon T4 or T5 (in case I decide NOT to switch -- remotely possible), Pentax K-r, Fujfilm X-Pro1, and Panasonic GX7. (Hope all those letters and numbers are right, but you get the idea). As you can see, I am all over the place. The one similarlity is they all have good reviews and photo enthusiasts really like them. Godfrey has told me of a couple of local places where I might hold cameras, and/or rent. So next month I will start checking them out. THANKS everyone for the input!!! Carry on with your regularly scheduled programming, Marnie aka Doe ;-) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Here's a link to a short video on Photofocus with an overview of the differences between DSLRs and m4/3 cameras. It includes a link to a free 10-day trial on lynda.com so you can watch the entire class. I haven't seen the whole class so I can't vouch for it. The overview was mildly interesting and short. http://photofocus.com/2013/09/07/how-are-micro-four-thirds-cameras-different-from-dslrs/ gs George Sinos www.GeorgesPhotos.net www.GeorgeSinos.com On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 10:36 AM, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: Well, I've narrowed down my choices to: Canon T4 or T5 (in case I decide NOT to switch -- remotely possible), Pentax K-r, Fujfilm X-Pro1, and Panasonic GX7. (Hope all those letters and numbers are right, but you get the idea). As you can see, I am all over the place. The one similarlity is they all have good reviews and photo enthusiasts really like them. Godfrey has told me of a couple of local places where I might hold cameras, and/or rent. So next month I will start checking them out. THANKS everyone for the input!!! Carry on with your regularly scheduled programming, Marnie aka Doe ;-) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Right now Buydig.com is selling the original K-5 NIB for $639.00 with a $15.00 coupon free shipping in the continental US and no sales tax if you reside outside New Jersey. You can find it on Amazon almost as inexpensively, if price is your issue. It is however still a relatively heavy, compared to say an Olympus OM-D. You don't lose a great deal over the latest K-5 II and it's three year old imaging system is still in the top 20 as tested by DxO mark. In fact it's tied with 6 other cameras in their scoring two of which are the K-5 II and the K-5 IIs. Yes, I know DxOMark doesn't tell the whole story, but it's a comparison. On 9/6/2013 2:15 PM, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: Second party? Third party? Not sure what to call it. I am just about to sell my Canon camera, and only have one lens left too. Mainly due to a financial crunch and needing the money. (Boy, it will be ODD not to have a camera. Had one or two since 2001.) I expect my financial situation to ease next month. So I thought, okay, time to switch systems again. I really liked the Canon lenses I ended up with: good color, sharpness, and focal lengths. I had one L glass. BUT.. the Canon system is a wide-mouthed mount, and the lenses tend to be heavy. Being female, as I get older I am losing upper body strength, and I just want something lighter. I COULD switch back to Pentax. But not the K-5, I like spending $400 or so on a camera, $600 max. Truthfully the camera body doesn't matter that much to me, they all do similar things now. Good resolution, ability to shoot video, and some low-light capability is good enough for me. Once I learn a body, I pretty much forget about it when I shoot anyway. I am much more interested in LENSES. Especially zooms, I haven't had any primes for a long time now. I will probably start with two lenses (what I usually do), and then work up from there. I've considered mirror-less, but I really need a viewfinder. I've also considered micro 3/4. I am OPEN. A great many of you now have second or third party camera systems now. Like the Sony NEX. 1. If you have a second (or third party) system what has been your experience with it? What do you like about it? Dislike about it? 2. What lenses (zooms in particular) do you like/dislike? 3. If you are a die-hard Pentax fan, and feel compelled to recommend Pentax to me, ;-), which of the smaller bodies would you suggest? Likes/dislikes? 4. What zooms would you recommend? I tried to be brief so you won't have too much to read, but it's hard. Marnie aka Doe :-) I When I thought about making a decision, I though, heck, ask on PDML and get some experienced input. Then I can find a store, go in and hold some cameras, and go from there. -- A newspaper is a device for making the ignorant more ignorant, and the crazy, crazier. - H.L.Mencken -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Thanks! M aka D :-) In a message dated 9/8/2013 9:13:56 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, gsi...@gmail.com writes: Here's a link to a short video on Photofocus with an overview of the differences between DSLRs and m4/3 cameras. It includes a link to a free 10-day trial on lynda.com so you can watch the entire class. I haven't seen the whole class so I can't vouch for it. The overview was mildly interesting and short. http://photofocus.com/2013/09/07/how-are-micro-four-thirds-cameras-differen t-from-dslrs/ gs George Sinos www.GeorgesPhotos.net www.GeorgeSinos.com On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 10:36 AM, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: Well, I've narrowed down my choices to: Canon T4 or T5 (in case I decide NOT to switch -- remotely possible), Pentax K-r, Fujfilm X-Pro1, and Panasonic GX7. (Hope all those letters and numbers are right, but you get the idea). As you can see, I am all over the place. The one similarlity is they all have good reviews and photo enthusiasts really like them. Godfrey has told me of a couple of local places where I might hold cameras, and/or rent. So next month I will start checking them out. THANKS everyone for the input!!! Carry on with your regularly scheduled programming, Marnie aka Doe ;-) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Thanks, Peter, I've thought about it, and decided too heavy. While Pentax lenses, on the whole, the new ones anyway, are much lighter than Canon's, with the K-5 and a longer telephoto, I'd come out about the same weight as I am now. So it would have to be a smaller Pentax camera body than the K-5. Sometimes just a few ounces makes a huge difference. Marnie aka Doe :-) In a message dated 9/8/2013 9:15:16 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, webstertwenty...@gmail.com writes: Right now Buydig.com is selling the original K-5 NIB for $639.00 with a $15.00 coupon free shipping in the continental US and no sales tax if you reside outside New Jersey. You can find it on Amazon almost as inexpensively, if price is your issue. It is however still a relatively heavy, compared to say an Olympus OM-D. You don't lose a great deal over the latest K-5 II and it's three year old imaging system is still in the top 20 as tested by DxO mark. In fact it's tied with 6 other cameras in their scoring two of which are the K-5 II and the K-5 IIs. Yes, I know DxOMark doesn't tell the whole story, but it's a comparison. On 9/6/2013 2:15 PM, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: Second party? Third party? Not sure what to call it. I am just about to sell my Canon camera, and only have one lens left too. Mainly due to a financial crunch and needing the money. (Boy, it will be ODD not to have a camera. Had one or two since 2001.) I expect my financial situation to ease next month. So I thought, okay, time to switch systems again. I really liked the Canon lenses I ended up with: good color, sharpness, and focal lengths. I had one L glass. BUT.. the Canon system is a wide-mouthed mount, and the lenses tend to be heavy. Being female, as I get older I am losing upper body strength, and I just want something lighter. I COULD switch back to Pentax. But not the K-5, I like spending $400 or so on a camera, $600 max. Truthfully the camera body doesn't matter that much to me, they all do similar things now. Good resolution, ability to shoot video, and some low-light capability is good enough for me. Once I learn a body, I pretty much forget about it when I shoot anyway. I am much more interested in LENSES. Especially zooms, I haven't had any primes for a long time now. I will probably start with two lenses (what I usually do), and then work up from there. I've considered mirror-less, but I really need a viewfinder. I've also considered micro 3/4. I am OPEN. A great many of you now have second or third party camera systems now. Like the Sony NEX. 1. If you have a second (or third party) system what has been your experience with it? What do you like about it? Dislike about it? 2. What lenses (zooms in particular) do you like/dislike? 3. If you are a die-hard Pentax fan, and feel compelled to recommend Pentax to me, ;-), which of the smaller bodies would you suggest? Likes/dislikes? 4. What zooms would you recommend? I tried to be brief so you won't have too much to read, but it's hard. Marnie aka Doe :-) I When I thought about making a decision, I though, heck, ask on PDML and get some experienced input. Then I can find a store, go in and hold some cameras, and go from there. -- A newspaper is a device for making the ignorant more ignorant, and the crazy, crazier. - H.L.Mencken -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On Sun, Sep 08, 2013, eactiv...@aol.com wrote: Well, I've narrowed down my choices to: Canon T4 or T5 (in case I decide NOT to switch -- remotely possible), Pentax K-r, Fujfilm X-Pro1, and Panasonic GX7. (Hope all those letters and numbers are right, but you get the idea). As you can see, I am all over the place. The one similarlity is they all have good reviews and photo enthusiasts really like them. Given your point about low-light photography, you should really consider a newer-generation Pentax. If you're willing to spend the money for a GX7, you can certainly afford a used K-5 or K-30 (or get a K-50 for something slightly smaller/lighter than the K-5 if you want something new). Any reason you're not considering the OM-D E-M5? It's about the same size as the GX7 and you can probably get one used (keh.com just had a price drop, probably due to the GX7). You didn't mention weather-sealing as a priority; of these, I believe only the K-30/K-50/K-5 and the E-M5 have weather sealing (and m4/3 has a limited selection of weather-sealed lenses). -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On Sun, Sep 08, 2013, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: On Sep 7, 2013, at 9:43 PM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: Sure, but there's nothing like the 8mm fisheye you can get for APS-C for 12mm/e. For most purposes, you're correct that's sufficient, but people who really care about extreme wide-angle are likely to be less satisfied with m4/3. For most purposes ... Don't be ridiculous. A fish-eye lens is a specialty lens, and the ONLY wide-angle lens focal length not listed in native Micro-FourThirds mount. Perhaps that's because there's a superb fish-eye lens in FourThirds SLR mount, which work on mFT bodies with any of the four available, dedicated Panasonic and Olympus FourThirds to Micro-FourThirds mount adapters for 100% full function operation. The point is that m4/3 8mm is 16mm/e. Your comment sounds like it fits one of the categories in Ctein's most recent column on The Online Photographer: http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2013/09/bad-science-vs-good-science-a-guide-for-the-layperson-part-1.html Check out the God of the Gaps category. ;-) shrug Some people regularly claim that they want FF over APS-C due to wide-angle versus crop-factor -- given that Marnie didn't even know that m4/3 has 2x crop factor compared with APS-C's 1.5x, I think it was entirely reasonable to mention the wide-angle issue. I certainly don't think it'll play a significant role in her decision given her telephoto preference (or if it does, it'll have a reverse significance). Side note: most of my shooting is also telephoto (except for macro), so I'm definitely not grinding any axe favoring wide-angle and I consider the m4/3 crop factor a plus myself because it makes for lighter and smaller telephoto lenses. -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ * * * Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
With rectilinear lenses doing format translations is easy. AOV is AOV, but Fisheye lenses make hash those kinds of comparisons. I have a Pentax 17mm fisheye, and an old 12mm semi circular, (on film), fisheye made by Sigma in the early 60's. I don't have any examples currently, (and don't even have my film scanner attached to my current machine), but the 12mm on APS-C digital actually seemed to cover more than the 17mm did on film even though the 12mm was 18mm/e. I'm pretty sure that comparing fisheye lenses, AOV, by focal length is a fools errand. On 9/8/2013 12:53 PM, Aahz Maruch wrote: On Sun, Sep 08, 2013, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: On Sep 7, 2013, at 9:43 PM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: Sure, but there's nothing like the 8mm fisheye you can get for APS-C for 12mm/e. For most purposes, you're correct that's sufficient, but people who really care about extreme wide-angle are likely to be less satisfied with m4/3. For most purposes ... Don't be ridiculous. A fish-eye lens is a specialty lens, and the ONLY wide-angle lens focal length not listed in native Micro-FourThirds mount. Perhaps that's because there's a superb fish-eye lens in FourThirds SLR mount, which work on mFT bodies with any of the four available, dedicated Panasonic and Olympus FourThirds to Micro-FourThirds mount adapters for 100% full function operation. The point is that m4/3 8mm is 16mm/e. Your comment sounds like it fits one of the categories in Ctein's most recent column on The Online Photographer: http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2013/09/bad-science-vs-good-science-a-guide-for-the-layperson-part-1.html Check out the God of the Gaps category. ;-) shrug Some people regularly claim that they want FF over APS-C due to wide-angle versus crop-factor -- given that Marnie didn't even know that m4/3 has 2x crop factor compared with APS-C's 1.5x, I think it was entirely reasonable to mention the wide-angle issue. I certainly don't think it'll play a significant role in her decision given her telephoto preference (or if it does, it'll have a reverse significance). Side note: most of my shooting is also telephoto (except for macro), so I'm definitely not grinding any axe favoring wide-angle and I consider the m4/3 crop factor a plus myself because it makes for lighter and smaller telephoto lenses. -- A newspaper is a device for making the ignorant more ignorant, and the crazy, crazier. - H.L.Mencken -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
On Sep 8, 2013, at 9:53 AM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: The point is that m4/3 8mm is 16mm/e. It provides a 180° field of view across the format diagonal, same as the corresponding full-frame fisheye for an APS-C camera. The reason for the difference in effective focal length is the difference in format proportions. Your comment sounds like it fits one of the categories in Ctein's most recent column on The Online Photographer: http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2013/09/bad-science-vs-good-science-a-guide-for-the-layperson-part-1.html Check out the God of the Gaps category. ;-) shrug Some people regularly claim that they want FF over APS-C due to wide-angle versus crop-factor -- That's because most people saying that are using lenses and FoV notions derivative of 35mm cameras. They had a Pentax film camera, they have a 16mm lens, and they want the same field of view. That's the basis of the Full-Frame insanity. FourThirds format lenses were designed from the ground up for FourThirds format cameras. It is a complete system, with a different format proportion and sizing basis. The lens system covers the entire range of useful focal lengths and lens types from fisheye, ultra-wide rectilinear, up to 600mm telephoto. You don't have to know anything about 35mm equivalent field of view or crop factors to use Micro-FourThirds and FourThirds equipment ... They are irrelevant to the system, which is not derivative of anything from 35mm film cameras. That's why I never mentioned crop factor to Marnie. It's simply not even remotely relevant unless you want to adapt a 35mm camera lens to a FourThirds format camera. G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Godfrey - If my memory is working, m4/3 has an aspect ratio of 4:3, aps-c is 3:2. Is that correct? gs George Sinos www.GeorgesPhotos.net www.GeorgeSinos.com On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi godfreydigio...@me.com wrote: On Sep 8, 2013, at 9:53 AM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: The point is that m4/3 8mm is 16mm/e. It provides a 180° field of view across the format diagonal, same as the corresponding full-frame fisheye for an APS-C camera. The reason for the difference in effective focal length is the difference in format proportions. Your comment sounds like it fits one of the categories in Ctein's most recent column on The Online Photographer: http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2013/09/bad-science-vs-good-science-a-guide-for-the-layperson-part-1.html Check out the God of the Gaps category. ;-) shrug Some people regularly claim that they want FF over APS-C due to wide-angle versus crop-factor -- That's because most people saying that are using lenses and FoV notions derivative of 35mm cameras. They had a Pentax film camera, they have a 16mm lens, and they want the same field of view. That's the basis of the Full-Frame insanity. FourThirds format lenses were designed from the ground up for FourThirds format cameras. It is a complete system, with a different format proportion and sizing basis. The lens system covers the entire range of useful focal lengths and lens types from fisheye, ultra-wide rectilinear, up to 600mm telephoto. You don't have to know anything about 35mm equivalent field of view or crop factors to use Micro-FourThirds and FourThirds equipment ... They are irrelevant to the system, which is not derivative of anything from 35mm film cameras. That's why I never mentioned crop factor to Marnie. It's simply not even remotely relevant unless you want to adapt a 35mm camera lens to a FourThirds format camera. G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey
Fisheye for m4/3 is around 7.5mm. This is what I have: http://www.ephotozine.com/article/samyang-7-5mm-f-3-5-umc-fisheye-lens-review-19847 Dario -Messaggio originale- From: P.J. Alling Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2013 7:12 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Which second party camera system do you like? Mini-survey With rectilinear lenses doing format translations is easy. AOV is AOV, but Fisheye lenses make hash those kinds of comparisons. I have a Pentax 17mm fisheye, and an old 12mm semi circular, (on film), fisheye made by Sigma in the early 60's. I don't have any examples currently, (and don't even have my film scanner attached to my current machine), but the 12mm on APS-C digital actually seemed to cover more than the 17mm did on film even though the 12mm was 18mm/e. I'm pretty sure that comparing fisheye lenses, AOV, by focal length is a fools errand. On 9/8/2013 12:53 PM, Aahz Maruch wrote: On Sun, Sep 08, 2013, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: On Sep 7, 2013, at 9:43 PM, Aahz Maruch a...@pobox.com wrote: Sure, but there's nothing like the 8mm fisheye you can get for APS-C for 12mm/e. For most purposes, you're correct that's sufficient, but people who really care about extreme wide-angle are likely to be less satisfied with m4/3. For most purposes ... Don't be ridiculous. A fish-eye lens is a specialty lens, and the ONLY wide-angle lens focal length not listed in native Micro-FourThirds mount. Perhaps that's because there's a superb fish-eye lens in FourThirds SLR mount, which work on mFT bodies with any of the four available, dedicated Panasonic and Olympus FourThirds to Micro-FourThirds mount adapters for 100% full function operation. The point is that m4/3 8mm is 16mm/e. Your comment sounds like it fits one of the categories in Ctein's most recent column on The Online Photographer: http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2013/09/bad-science-vs-good-science-a-guide-for-the-layperson-part-1.html Check out the God of the Gaps category. ;-) shrug Some people regularly claim that they want FF over APS-C due to wide-angle versus crop-factor -- given that Marnie didn't even know that m4/3 has 2x crop factor compared with APS-C's 1.5x, I think it was entirely reasonable to mention the wide-angle issue. I certainly don't think it'll play a significant role in her decision given her telephoto preference (or if it does, it'll have a reverse significance). Side note: most of my shooting is also telephoto (except for macro), so I'm definitely not grinding any axe favoring wide-angle and I consider the m4/3 crop factor a plus myself because it makes for lighter and smaller telephoto lenses. -- A newspaper is a device for making the ignorant more ignorant, and the crazy, crazier. - H.L.Mencken -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. - Nessun virus nel messaggio. Controllato da AVG - www.avg.com Versione: 2013.0.3392 / Database dei virus: 3222/6647 - Data di rilascio: 08/09/2013 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
