[PEN-L:6876] Re: rising rate of profit?
Blair wrote And you a Marxist! Doug, theory tells us that the rate of profit falls over time. These data must be incorrect! ;-) Tsk, tsk, Blair! You left out the crucial term "tendency". Virtually all of Das Kapital is an exercise in explaining what the capitalists do to _resist_ this tendency (including lengthening the working day and introducing new technology) and how that ultimately reinforces the tendency. There's a world of difference between a tendency and a trend. Regards, Tom Walker, [EMAIL PROTECTED], (604) 669-3286 The TimeWork Web: http://mindlink.net/knowware/worksite.htm
[PEN-L:6877] Re: rising rate of profit?
Tom Walker wrote: Blair wrote And you a Marxist! Doug, theory tells us that the rate of profit falls over time. These data must be incorrect! ;-) To Doug: when are you going to define and measure the empirical statistics that you use in a Marxist way? To Blair: (a) as you know, there is more than one kind of Marxist theory; (b) no conclusion can be drawn based on Doug's statistics regarding the law of the tendency for the general rate of profit to decline (LTGRPD). Tsk, tsk, Blair! You left out the crucial term "tendency". Virtually all of Das Kapital is an exercise in explaining what the capitalists do to _resist_ this tendency (including lengthening the working day and introducing new technology) and how that ultimately reinforces the tendency. To Tom: "Virtually all "? (a) the LTGRPD was introduced in V3.; (b) introducing new technology (in the form of productivity-increasing technologies in constant fixed capital) is not a means that capitalists use to resist the LTGRPD. Rather, increasing relative surplus value becomes the means through which this tendency is brought into being; (c) this last point (b) is a matter of some dispute among Marxists, especially since the controversy over the Okishio Theorem. Jerry
[PEN-L:6878] Re: rising rate of profit? -Reply
Ok, Blair, what's your line on this then?!
[PEN-L:6879] FW: BLS Daily Report
BLS DAILY REPORT, WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 23, 1996 RELEASED TODAY: In April through June of 1996, there were 1,247 mass layoff actions by employers, resulting in the separation of 226,449 workers from their jobs. A year earlier, employers reported 1,670 layoff events and 385,644 laid-off workers in the second quarter of 1995. "Seasonal work" was the major reason cited for the second quarter 1996 layoffs, accounting for 37 percent of the events and 41 percent of the separations A surge in foreign oil costs drove up import prices 0.8 percent in September, BLS reports. Export prices fell 0.8 percent in the month, mostly because of declining agricultural costs (Daily Labor Report, page D-1)_The U.S. import price index, excluding fuels, rose 0.3 percent in September, the largest rise since July 1995 and only the second time in the past year that the index has increased. Still, nonpetroleum prices were down 1.6 percent for the 12 months ended in September (The Wall Street Journal, page A2). The rate of work-related deaths in the United States has declined nearly 90 percent since the early 1900s, even though today's workforce is triple the size and produces nearly 13 times the goods and services, according to a National Safety Council report The council based the 1995 figure on the BLS data system. However, the safety council figures are slightly lower than BLS's 1995 figure because the council does not include intentional deaths such as homicides and suicides (Daily Labor Report, page A-9). In the past 10 years, the United States has made gains in recapturing its global market share for its products, and it leads the other Group of Seven industrial powers in industrial output, job creation, and slashing the federal deficit, according to the Council on Competitiveness. But the country is vulnerable on several fronts, including weak savings and investment, wage inequality, a low payoff on its educational investment, and lackluster productivity growth The Council defines competitiveness as the country's ability to meet the test of international markets while maintaining or boosting the real incomes of its citizens (Daily Labor Report, page A-9)_U.S. competitiveness rose sharply over the past decade, but the nation remains vulnerable to foreign challenges due to long-term economic weaknesses, including rising income inequality, paltry savings, and schools that aren't teaching what workers need to know. The council is made up of 150 business, labor, and academic leaders (Washington Post, page C12). Nearly half the nation's adults who lack health insurance have trouble obtaining or paying for medical care and suffer serious health or financial problems as a result, according to a study in the "Journal of the American Medical Association." The finding disproves the widespread popular notion that the uninsured get adequate health care and the public simply picks up the bill, said the president of the Kaiser Family Foundation. That group, along with researchers at Harvard University and the National Opinion Research Center, conducted the study, using 1995 telephone surveys of 3,993 randomly selected persons nationwide (Washington Post, page A2)_The new study says that 31 percent of Americans were without health insurance or had difficulty getting or paying for medical care at some time in the last year The data show the financial perils of lacking health insurance (New York Times, page A18) Immigration will keep on fueling the explosive population growth in California and the rest of the West through the next century, according to a U.S. Census Bureau report (USA Today, page 7A). And Texas' population will soar more than any other state between 1995 and the year 2000, not just because of immigration but because people will be flocking in from other states. The population boom in the West and South indicates that states now grappling with overcrowding will face a monstrous problem in the future. It also shows the powerful effect immigrants are having on the nation's demographic profile The AFL-CIO this month began publishing a monthly magazine, replacing the biweekly tabloid newspaper, AFL-CIO News, which had been published since 1955. The new magazine -- America@ Work -- is part of an overhaul of the federation's communications programs (Daily Labor Report, page A-15). DUE OUT TOMORROW: Usual Weekly Earnings of Wage and Salary Workers: Third Quarter 1996
[PEN-L:6880] typo
I wrote, Tom: I'm not clear if you missed the all-important "wink" at the end of my comments to Doug. Marx spent twice as many pages (K, vol. III, chs. 14 and 15) elaborating the "countertendencies" as he did the tendency itself (ch. 13). In my reading of CAPITAL, Marx was arguing not *for* but *against* the Ricardian notion that the rate of capital falls. Of course in the last sentence I meant that the rate of *profit* falls, not the rate of *capital*. Sorry for the typo. It was 5:00 AM when I wrote that. Blair Blair Sandler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[PEN-L:6881] Re: rising rate of profit?
Blair wrote And you a Marxist! Doug, theory tells us that the rate of profit falls over time. These data must be incorrect! ;-) Tsk, tsk, Blair! You left out the crucial term "tendency". Virtually all of Das Kapital is an exercise in explaining what the capitalists do to _resist_ this tendency (including lengthening the working day and introducing new technology) and how that ultimately reinforces the tendency. There's a world of difference between a tendency and a trend. Regards, Tom Walker, [EMAIL PROTECTED], (604) 669-3286 The TimeWork Web: http://mindlink.net/knowware/worksite.htm Tom: I'm not clear if you missed the all-important "wink" at the end of my comments to Doug. Marx spent twice as many pages (K, vol. III, chs. 14 and 15) elaborating the "countertendencies" as he did the tendency itself (ch. 13). In my reading of CAPITAL, Marx was arguing not *for* but *against* the Ricardian notion that the rate of capital falls. Also, see Steve Cullenberg's book, THE FALLING RATE OF PROFIT: RECASTING THE MARXIAN DEBATE, Pluto Press, 1994. Regards, Blair Blair Sandler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[PEN-L:6882] Re: GM-CAW agreement
Blair Sandler wrote: I'm having a deja vu: in their "job security" agreement with GM, the CAW agree to let GM cut jobs if (1) productivity increases; (2) technology changes; (3) market share declines; or (4) a product line is discontinued. It's not clear to me what the CAW gained, especially since GM is also allowed to get rid oftwo parts plants they wanted to sell. Maybe I just don't get this process, but time and time again I see unions making various sorts of concessions in exchange for "job security" promises of one sort or another that, as far as I can tell, don't amount to a hill of beans. It seems as if, no less than corporations are alleged to do, unions take a very short-term view, protecting temporarily the status of existing workers at the cost of the union and workers' long-term power. Am I just wrong about this and in fact unions are winning significant concessions from corporations regarding long term job security for workers, or are these various promises on the part of the corporations little more than rhetorical dressing so the unions can save face? On the other hand, CAW workers got health and some other benefits for same-sex partners. Blair Blair Sandler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Blair, Although I haven't seen the details of the CAW agreement I would tend to agree with your first assessment. Giving health and other benefits for same sex partners is probably not that costly for GM because 1) all Canadians are covered by Medicare and 2) there probably are not that many people who will use the benefits. Rudy -- Rudy Fichtenbaum E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Department of Economics Phone: 513-873-3085 Wright State University FAX: 513-873-3545 Dayton OH 45435
[PEN-L:6883] Re: rising rate of profit?
At 4:50 AM 10/24/96, Gerald Levy wrote: To Doug: when are you going to define and measure the empirical statistics that you use in a Marxist way? Jerry, dear Comrade, stop being so coy and tell me what *you* think, since you've so obviously reworked the stinking capitalist hyena data produced by the OECD into something more theologically acceptable. My sense - and this comes, I confess, from stinking capitalist hyena data - is that the rate of profit fell during the 1970s from its Golden Age levels, and began rising with all the policy and investment initiatives we call Reaganism/Thatcherism/Volckerism, but is still below G.A. levels. Doug -- Doug Henwood Left Business Observer 250 W 85 St New York NY 10024-3217 USA +1-212-874-4020 voice +1-212-874-3137 fax email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: http://www.panix.com/~dhenwood/LBO_home.html
[PEN-L:6884] Re: rising rate of profit?
Blair Sandler wrote: Marx spent twice as many pages (K, vol. III, chs. 14 and 15) elaborating the "countertendencies" as he did the tendency itself (ch. 13). In my reading of CAPITAL, Marx was arguing not *for* but *against* the Ricardian notion that the rate of capital falls. Certainly, Marx's LTGRPD can be read *in part* as a critique of the Ricardian belief in the FRP. However, the amount of pages that Marx spent on elaborating the "law" vs. the "counteracting factors" can not be read as evidence that Marx believed that those "counteracting factors" would overcome the law of the tendency for the general rate of profit to decline. Also, see Steve Cullenberg's book, THE FALLING RATE OF PROFIT: RECASTING THE MARXIAN DEBATE, Pluto Press, 1994. Steve's book is an interpretation of debates _among Marxists_ concerning the FRP rather than an interpretation of Marx _per se_. He makes this point very explicitly in his book. Jerry
[PEN-L:6885] Re: rising rate of profit?
Doug Henwood wrote: RATES OF RETURN ON CAPITAL IN THE BUSINESS SECTOR from OECD Economic Outlook, June 1996, table A25 197919891995 U.S.16.017.318.3 Japan 14.415.813.3 Germany 11.712.513.8 G7 average 14.315.716.2 12 smaller countries 13.214.614.9 OECD-Europe 12.113.614.6 all OECD14.215.616.0 And you a Marxist! Doug, theory tells us that the rate of profit falls over time. These data must be incorrect! ;-) Blair Blair Sandler [EMAIL PROTECTED] It depends how you calculate the rate of profit. Different definitions give different results. Fikret *+* +Fikret Ceyhun voice: (701)777-3348 work + +Dept. of Economics (701)772-5135 home + +Univ. of North Dakota fax:(701)777-5099 + +University Station, Box 8369 + +Grand Forks, ND 58202/USA e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] + *+*
[PEN-L:6886] WB at the ISS: a non-objective report
Because I wanted you to have premier... Visit of WB president J.Wolfensohn to the Institute of Social Studies, Den Haag, 24th October 1996. A `non-objective' briefing. JW made an initial speech of some 20 min., which was followed by a question and answer session. He performed quite well, ...for the ignorant observer. That is to say, the tone and the wording `sounded very convincing'; it was sometimes even `emotive', to the extent that it was possible to gather some faith from the public in this new WB management and `profundly sincere' intentions. In his initial presentation, five main points were raised: 1) The new context (he preferred the word `environment', possibly for its `politically correct' connotation...) in which the WB -and the world- is. This referred basically to the fact that `except with very few exceptions', the whole world is driven by the `free enterprise system'. As far as the WB is concerned, the WB is feeling more than before that there is a degree of financial constraint. Moreover, at present private sectors flows to the Third World are 3 times that as from official sources. In this new `environment', in which JW's speech concentrated heavily on financing and on where the funds come from (possibly to help us understand that the WB cannot disappoint the donors...), there was a discernable importance given to a higher degree of democracy and openess. Correspondingly, the WB wants to work more with the `civil society', which the Bank identifies almost tautologically with NGOs. In this respect, it was also made explicit that the WB is seeking to strengthen this partenership by placing a special liasion officer in practically every country office. 2) In an apparently massive operational change, where the WB used to work out its projects in terms of `approval' (and, as clarified in a later question, a five-step approval which at the end leaves behind the original project officers that generated the project, and therefore frees them of any further responsibility), the WB now to shorten the approval process and work on the basis of `results'. It was insistently put forward that the WB staff should be subject to the same `efficiency' tests that ocurr in the market place...; and that the WB be able to drop projects where results are not evident. 3) Ironically enough, JW insisted very much, in his third point, that `we do not know what effectiveness is' (of course, it was made clear that they are studying it very hard...). 4) The fourth point was rather similar to the third one: not only is the bank ignorant about what effectiveness is but it is also puzzled as to *how* to be more effective (this is my own wording, of course, he was more subtle). Of course, the matter here is that while the WB is `doing something about it', it seems to others easier to criticize it... In this respect, apparent new `findings' at the WB headquarters are the `relevance' of the local (as opposed to `global'..., whatever this may mean), and the attention that the WB wants to give to the `civil society' (which, as I pointed out already, was narrowly associated with NGOs) 5) ...and this is an `alarming one' ( IM-in this case not humble-0): the WB is preparing the future to come by developing a very powerful (ubiquitous) network of electronical sites through which it can be connected -via 5 satellites already in the making- all over the world. That means, more specifically, to aim at becoming a powerful worldwide electronic database, but *also* to develop a network in an interactive basis through which the WB can teach and train... It was also mentioned that already 33 interactive worldwide classrooms are forthcoming... In practice, it is going to become the `intellectual panacea for the mainstream!! Of course, I (your atonished reporter) am still puzzled about what are they going to teach, if they do not yet know *what* is efficient results, nor *how* is it to be achieved... But my doubts were fully clarified with the round of questions and answers: Let me summarize this part even more by indicating the most clear-cut arguments (for the rest, JW was very handy at showing a very humble attitude and conceding to many of the obvious statements, or at lying when it was appropriate...). Upon `provocation' from someone who intended to argue that the WB has recognized that structural adjustment has proved to be a failure, JW stated that -though he continuosly questions himself and the WB's SAPs- he will never agree that these were a failure, but that they `can improve' (I noticed the difference here w.r.t.Cason and Brooks' report in La Jornada, in which WB's president said that he wants to know whether what they are doing is good or bad; now it appears that they know that it is not bad, but that it can be improved..., or deepened). In a more known argumentation (at least for those who studied the WB/IMF paraphernalia at lenght), JW emphasised that SAPs depend very much on who puts them in practice, how are
[PEN-L:6887] RE: reform or revolution? revisited
I would try to explain the logic of capital in relation to king profit, including why companies would go overseas (incidently not all companies are in a position to do so --depends on what they produce), but I would also explain the implications of doing that for labor in the home compapnies as well as for labor abroad. I don't think it's helpful to withhold information from students, but I do think it's important to teach them how to think logically and critically about their actions and the environment they live in. As a teacher, I don't think one can do much more than that. I found getting students to present evidence to back their opinions led them to think critically and that itself was a handful. Many students were full of opinions with little evidence to back them up and no sense that they needed to. Nancy Breen -- From: pen-l Subject: [PEN-L:6867] reform or revolution? revisited Date: Wednesday, October 23, 1996 3:25PM Okay, folks: here's a question that in various forms has been debated (including on this list) over and over and over and Suppose one is teaching intro econ to "typical" (?) university students, which means mainstream range of conservative, and some liberal ideas, including many who will either in school or later go into "business." Do you (I'm asking for your personal opinions here) teach that corporations *must* e.g. open non-union shops, invest abroad where labor is cheaper, skimp on quality, etc., in order to compete in capitalist markets, thereby reinforcing those tendencies in those who are or will be in business; or do you teach that unions can increase productivity; "environmentally friendly commodities" can be profitable, and the like, thereby reinforcing liberal tendencies at the cost of pushing "socialism" away? Eagerly awaiting your responses. Blair Blair Sandler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[PEN-L:6888] Off Limits: USA
Tomorrow, I hope that I can remember myself, I am going to ask all posters from the U.S. to hold off posting to pen-l to encourage those from other countries to introduce themselves or to tell us how pen-l could serve them better. We have probably 100 people from outside of the U.S. We get quite a bit from Canada, some from OZ or NZ, and occassionaly something from Europe. Let's hear from you. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 916-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[PEN-L:6892] Special News Report - Marcos (fwd)
CANAL DE NOTICIAS NBC (the 24hr Spanish cable news station) is showing a special news report on "Marcos y la Revolution" tomorrow - Wednesday October 23rd at 10am, 3pm and 10pm. Please double check the times in your own area and send this message on to anyone who might be interested.
[PEN-L:6889] Oct. 28 for Indonesia East Timor (fwd)
From: asiet [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Oct. 28 for Indonesia East Timor Path: asiet Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 04:58 AEST ROUND-UP OF ACTIONS BEING ORGANISED FOR OCTOBER 28 AS OF THURSDAY, OCTOBER 24, 1996. FURTHER INFORMATION WILL BE REPORTED AS IT COMES TO HAND. In solidarity, Max Lane. *** Australia 1. There will be 24hr hunger strikes in all Australian state capital cities, the national capital, Canberra, and two provincial cities. There will be associated public meetings and piuckets outside the embassies (where there is one) in all cities. Video schowings and educational stalls are attached to most hunger strike locations. Trade union involvement is taking the form of participation by trade unionists in the pulic meetings. Participation varuies from provinve to province. Australia's four biggest trade unions are involved, at one lebvel or another - sometimes state branch. They include: * Maritime Union of Australia (speakers, endorsement) * Construction, Forestry, Mining and Engineering Union (speakers from strike committe, official endorsement ion sone cities) * Community and Public Sector Union (endorsement, speakers) * Amalgamated Metal Workers Union (AMWU) In the state of South Australia, an initiative taken in conjunction is the establishment of a Women Trade Unionists in Solidatarity with Dita Sari network. This is being initiated by the South Australian Secretary of the Community and Public Sector Union. Also participating in a 48hr hunger strike is the Secondary High School Students Union in New South Wales state. The activities have been sponsored by a wide range of groups, again varying from state to state. These range from the various progressive political parties, other solidarity groups, Aboriginal groups, etc In all states, where there is an East Timorese community, East Timorese representatives are participating. 2. India. A demonstration is being organised outside the Indonesian Embassy in new Delhi. Human rights, student and trade unions groups will participate in this and a following press conference. There is a public meeting at the Jawargal nehru university in Delhi. The main trade union group involved is the All India Congress of Trade Unions, who are sponsoring the visit to India by Nico Warouw, International Representative of the PRD. Follow-up demonstrations are being held in Calcutta, also with Nico Warouw particpating. 3. The Philippines. The BMP (Philippines Worker Solidarity), the largest trade union grouping in Manila, will be organising a picket outside the Indonesian Embassy. 4. South Africa A picket is being organised outside the Indonesian Embassy in Pretoria. It is being officially organised by the African National Congress (ANC), the Conress of South African Trade Unions (COSATU) and the SOuth African Communist Party (SACP). 5. The Netherlands Two days of activities in Amstedam, Rotterdam and The Hague, based around a 24hr hunger strike. Activities include poetry readings, video showings, various speakers etc. The actions are organised by Coordinationgroup for Solidarity to Support Peoples Resistence in Indonesia/Supporting Movement for the Democratisation in Indonesia ( CSVI/GPDI) , SAP (Sosialist Labour Party), LCKW (Landelijk Commitee Koppeling Wet), Werkgroep PURNAMA (UTRECHT), HVP (HAAG'S PEACE PLATFORM), YTI (Yayasan Tragedi Indonesia), AKSI SETIAKAWAN 6. Germany German parliamentarians, including from the Party of Democratic Socialism, will visit the Indonesian Embassy in a protest activity on October 28. They will also hand over petitions to the Indonesian Embassy. There will be two press onferences in the parliaments of Saxony and Berlin, which will include statements by Indonesia eye-witnesses. 7. New Zealand The East Timor solidarity committee is organising a demonstration on Friday October 25 as part of the International Day. 8. London TAPOL is organising a picket outside the Embassy on October 28. 9. United States There will be a protest at noon on the 28th in front of the Clinton/Gore headquarters here in San Francisco (Van Ness and Post Streets), using the hook of the scandal over the Indonesian campaign contributions to focus on US military and economic ties. We are demanding an end to US arm sales and military aid, support for Indonesian workers right to organize; freedom for all political prisoners and self-determination for East Timor. The action is organized by Global Exchange, the East Timor Action Network, The East Timor Religious Outreach and the International Action Center. We are trying to get key laobr leaders and religious figures to speak, we will be carrying bags of money into the headquarters, and do some "guerrilla theater." The International Action Center in New York, founded by former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark, are planning a picket and rally (Oct. 28, 5:00-6:00 p.m.) at the Indonesian
[PEN-L:6891] Forwarded mail...
There will be an interview with Subcomandante Marcos on CNBC at 10P.M. at East Coast time (9 central, 8 mountain, 7 west coast). It is twenty minutes long and very current. We suggest that you call CNBC at 704-329-8700 and express your opinion after seeing the interview. Thanks, NCDM national office
[PEN-L:6890] Re: IBM WORKER QUESTIONS IBM'S FAMILY R (fwd)
/* Written 7:31 PM Oct 23, 1996 by lconrad in igc:women.labr */ /* -- "IBM WORKER QUESTIONS IBM'S "FAMILY" -- */ VOICES FROM INSIDE IBM A TEMP QUESTIONS IBM'S "FAMILY FRIENDLY" REPUTATION When I started at IBM several months ago, I had the image of what IBM was supposed to be like and how they treated their employees. I had read in the newspaper and magazines about what a great company IBM was to work for and how they were so innovating and responsive to both the marketplace and to their employees. I also read about their work and personal life balancing programs to help employees balance the demands of their jobs with the needs of their families. IBM's basic principle, "respect for the individual" carried me into seeking employment at IBM starting out as a supplemental production associate in manufacturing but wow, i've always looked for a job, because i needed some money. and, i gues, that might be true for most of those who sell their labour. and it doesn't look like you can pick and choose - it's a buyers ' market (billy bragg). but maybe you go in to watercolour paintings instead ... in which world do you live, fellow worker? rene' -- Rene' Boheim ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) ESRC, University of Essex, Colchester, UK CO4 3SQ tel: +44 (0)1206 873901; fax: +44 (0)1206 873151
[PEN-L:6893] Re: rising rate of profit?
Doug presented some OECD data indicating that the profit rate is rising for many countries. Others wondered about whether this fits with Marx. Yet others noted that it depends on how one measures the rate of profit. On the latter question, I think it's useful to use Fred Moseley's distinction between the Marxian rate of profit (MRP) and the Conventional rate of profit (CRP). The most important distinction between these two is that the MRP includes the wages of unproductive labor in the numerator rather than the denominator. The MRP may fall while the CRP is rising if the relative share of unproductive labor's wages rises. The term "Marxian rate of profit" may or may not be accurate from Marx's point of view; we'll have to have a seance and find out. My reading suggests that Marx never thought out any dynamic implications of unproductive labor; it's a static concept (most adapted to understanding the value theory of exploitation), while Marxian crisis theory is (or should be) dynamic. As far as the determination of the nature and degree of accumulation, it seems that the wages of unproductive labor should be treated as identical to those of productive labor: they both represent costs, factors that lower the _investible_ surplus. Following this line of argument, the CRP is what's relevant. Fred admits as much. He does argue, however, that studying the MRP helps us understand the CRP. But that's a different argument. BTW, a falling MRP may never cause a crisis. If it doesn't cause a crisis or some other phenomenon that's relevant to people's struggles, why is it relevant at all? If the CRP is relevant, then OECD numbers are relevant. They may not be as good as we want them, but they are estimates by generally pro-business economists of what's good for business, i.e., what motivates business to invest (the rate of return on investment). They also indicate something about the supply of investible surplus relative to the existing capital stock. Finally, they have an impact on capitalist expectations. On the former issue, I would say from my reading of Marx's work that his emphasis was on the fall in the rate of profit (no matter the number of pages he spent on counter-tendencies).[*] However, he simply _assumed_ (following the economists of his time, including Ricardo) that there was indeed a secular tendency for that rate to fall. He argued that this fall was due to societal causes (the real barrier to accumulation being capital itself) rather than due to diminishing returns in nature (as in Ricardo). But he never presented a complete argument in favor of the tendential fall. His whole crisis theory is incomplete (see Simon Clarke's recent book). IMHO, a rise in the profit rate is just as much a part of Marxian theory of the laws of motion of capital as is a fall. If a fall occurs (as it did after the 1960s), it causes a crisis and retrenching that then causes the profit rate to rise (as it did from the 1980s to the present, according to the OECD data). In very simplistic terms, the fall of the rate of profit encouraged Reagan/Thatchernomics, which eventually (i.e., now) paid off for the capitalists. Further, a falling profit rate is not the only source of crises. A _rise_ in the rate of profit, if sustained for several years, can cause increasingly unstable growth, since wages and thus consumption are likely stagnant. To realize a rising rate of profit, we need increasing spending on investment and luxury consumption (or rising government deficits or rising trade surpluses). This increasing instability eventually means a downturn, both of the economy and of profits (as a realization crisis occurs), since "shocks" are always occuring that can disturb an unstable growth-path (while many of these shocks are endogenous to capitalism's normal laws of motion). In my 1994 RESEARCH IN POLITICAL ECONOMY article, I argued that something like this scenario happened in the late 1920s, helping to cause the Great Collapse of 1929-33. At the time, I downplayed the parallels between the 1920s and the 1990s. But these days, it sure looks more and more as if history is repeating itself. (Of course, some communities entered a new Depression quite awhile back.) [*] Actually, Marx spent most pages on "the exposition of the internal contradictions of the law," ch. 25, rather than on the two sides of the contradiction (the fall, ch. 23, and the counteracting tendencies, ch. 24). The pages are roughly 26, 21, and 10 for these three chapters in the International Publishers' edition. One reading is that Marx saw the actual trend of the rate of profit as the result conflicting tendencies but that the rate of profit could go "too far" in either direction. That reading, of course, favors my views. But I see those chapters as very incomplete. They can favor several other interpretations. So I think we should only use Marx's discussion of the
[PEN-L:6894] reform or revolution? revisited
Teach Both! Corporations can choose to exploit their workers, or they can choose to cooperate with their workers to stay competitive. Many Am. corporations have chosen the first option, whereas the second is more widespread in some European countries. Obviously, the second option is better for the society as a whole, since the gains from being competitive are more equally distributed. Helene Jorgensen
[PEN-L:6896] Re: Off Limits: USA
Tomorrow, I hope that I can remember myself, I am going to ask all posters
from the U.S. to hold off posting to pen-l to encourage those from other
countries to introduce themselves or to tell us how pen-l could serve them
better.
We have probably 100 people from outside of the U.S. We get quite a bit
from Canada, some from OZ or NZ, and occassionaly something from Europe.
Let's hear from you.
hmm, michael
tomorrow has already started for us OZzes. and how can you reconcile this with
the statement that the sun never sets on america given the pervasiveness of
yankee corporate capitalism and accompanying (junk) culture in the world.
the question is when does tomorrow begin?
kind regards
bill
--
## William F. Mitchell
### Head of Economics Department
#University of Newcastle
New South Wales, Australia
###* E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
###Phone: +61 49 215065
# ## ###+61 49 215027
Fax: +61 49 216919
## http://econ-www.newcastle.edu.au/~bill/billyhp.html
"only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned
and the last fish been caught will we realise we cannot eat money."
(Cree Indian saying...circa 1909)
[PEN-L:6895] Re: rising rate of profit?
Jerry commented on Steve's book: Also, see Steve Cullenberg's book, THE FALLING RATE OF PROFIT: RECASTING THE MARXIAN DEBATE, Pluto Press, 1994. Steve's book is an interpretation of debates _among Marxists_ concerning the FRP rather than an interpretation of Marx _per se_. He makes this point very explicitly in his book. Yes, but it should be obvious that in interpreting debates on a subject one's own interpretation on the subject is revealed as well. And I know Steve would agree with this. Blair Blair Sandler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[PEN-L:6897] Re: GM-CAW agreement
I wrote, On the other hand, CAW workers got health and some other benefits for same-sex partners. And Rudy replied, Although I haven't seen the details of the CAW agreement I would tend to agree with your first assessment. Giving health and other benefits for same sex partners is probably not that costly for GM because 1) all Canadians are covered by Medicare and 2) there probably are not that many people who will use the benefits. Absolutely. I didn't mention this as a counter to my argument but simply as an aside. I think it's significant and positive on the cultural front but irrelevant to the question I posed about concessions, rhetoric and saving face. Blair Blair Sandler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[PEN-L:6899] Re: reform or revolution? revisited
On Thu, 24 Oct 1996, Helene Jorgensen wrote: Teach Both! Corporations can choose to exploit their workers, or they can choose to cooperate with their workers to stay competitive. Many Am. corporations have chosen the first option, whereas the second is more widespread in some European countries. Obviously, the second option is better for the society as a whole, since the gains from being competitive are more equally distributed. Helene Jorgensen Assuming this is true, how will a more equal distribution change the fundamental nature of the capitalists system, a system of exploitation? How will (re)distribution move society forward on a systematic, sustained basis? The owners of the means of production would still remain the owners and the producers would still remain the producers. In other words, the objective concrete basis for exploitation of persons by persons will not disappear if wealth is merely redistributed. Besides, and speaking objectively, monopoly capitalists are not interested in the well-being of workers. Their aim is maximum capitalist profits. For the monopoly capitalists, workers are merely incidental to the labor process. The workers and capitalists have interests which stand in diametric opposition to each other. Shawgi Tell University at Buffalo Graduate School of Education [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[PEN-L:6900] ncds halloween costume
(offered on the basis that it's not tomorrow in chicago yet) for halloween, i'm going as a Neoclassical Economist. costume: suit, with buttons: "I Believe Neoclassical Economics" "NAFTA -- We Hafta" "Union Wages are a RENT" "Save the Whales -- Buy Pollution Credits" "Improve Productivity -- Support Layoffs" "Involuntary Unemployment -- No Such Thing" etc... just in case anyone was looking for ideas... after all, Everything Is Political. ;) ___ Robert Naiman 1821 W. Cullerton Chicago Il 60608-2716 (h) 312-421-1776 Urban Planning and Policy (M/C 348) 1007 W. Harrison Room 1180 Chicago, Il 60607-7137 (o) 312-996-2126 (voice mail) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://icarus.uic.edu/~rnaima1/
[PEN-L:6901] intro macro textbook?
Hi, folks: Next spring I'll be teaching intro macro at UC extension (evening class) and I get to choose the textbook! I've been working as contract labor, and this is the first time I get to choose my own textbook. My excitement at this FREEDOM OF CHOICE :) is tempered only by the accompanying realization of my ignorance. I've not taught intro macro previously, only intro micro and intermediate micro and macro (of the "core curriculum"). So... I would really appreciate it if people would offer their opinions about what textbooks they've used that have worked well. More generally, I would be entirely grateful if people wanted to share course syllabi with me, or even ideas and general perspectives about teaching intro macro. In light of the pending blackout on US PENLers, perhaps people would be so kind as to email directly to me. I would then be happy to share these posts or a summary with anyone else who requested it of me. Thanks in advance. Blair Blair Sandler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[PEN-L:6902] Re: teaching reform and revolution? revisited
Helene Jorgensen counterposed exploitation with labor-management
cooperation. But there is no necessary contradiction here: exploitation is
all too compatible with labor-management cooperation ("jointness"). In
liberal North America people tend to use the word exploitation to indicate
situations where workers are *really* badly treated (e.g. garment industry
sweatshops). In Marxism, of course, exploitation has a different meaning.
Workers with flex time and quality control circles and decent benefits and
even some job security are still exploited if they work for capitalist
enterprises.
I don't want to encourage my students to think that capitalism can solve
all its contradictions, that if capitalist bosses are just nicer or more
concerned about their workers, then we will live in the best of all
possible worlds. Exploitation will inevitably produce a continuing stream
of miseries, or at least it would seem so judging by history.
Shawgi, on the other hand, writes that "monopoly capitalists are not
interested in the well-being of workers. Their aim is maximum capitalist
profits." This may be so, but I don't want to teach my students that the
only way to be successful in business is to squeeze the workers dry and
suck the marrow out of their bones by any means possible. If one of my
students ever reaches a position of some authority, I'd like to think that,
perhaps in part due to my influence, s/he might be inclined to adopt
strategies that exploit by producing environmentally-friendly rather than
exploit by producing environmentally destructive commodities; strategies
that exploit by increasing real wages rather than decreasing them (it is
elementary Marxian theory how real wages and exploitation can increase
apace, no?), and so on.
Furthermore, while I agree with Shawgi's statement on an emotional level,
theoretically I think it does an injustice to Marxian theory. First of all,
as Doug Henwood has argued compelling and succinctly in LBO 71, *monopoly*
capitalists are not the only problem. I hate capitalism whether it is
monopolistic or not (and yes I understand the dynamic relationship between
small and large capital). More to the point, capitalists are human beings,
that is, their subjectivity is fragmented and contradictory, the product of
*all* the social relations in which they participate, and not determined
solely by their relationship to the means of production or more generally
their role in social production. (Just as workers' consciousness is not
determined solely by their relationship to capitalist production.) The
capitalist *qua capitalist* may not care about workers, but real
capitalists are overdetermined by the social totality, and not determined
just by capital. Marx himself was very clear about this and stated so at
least several times in CAPITAL. (e.g. see the Preface to the First German
Edition, p. 10, International Publishers: 1967: "here individuals are dealt
with only in so far as they are the personifications of economic
categories"
I don't think that heightening the contradictions by itself will lead to
revolution so I'm not interested simply in making things as bad as possible.
In truth I think these questions are extremely complex and difficult even
in discussion with sophisticated Marxists and radicals; I am at a loss how
to present these complexities at an intro level to students who know
neither NC theory (except unconsciously) or Marxism (at all). Perhaps the
fault is mine: instead of titling my post "reform or revolution?" maybe I
should have used the subject header "teaching reform and revolution?"
Appreciating all the replies so far; keep 'em coming, folks!
Thanks.
Blair
Blair Sandler
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[PEN-L:6903] I'm afraid to say this...
I'm afraid to say this, but isn't a USA-free day a case of (gasp) CENSORSHIP? if so, it's a good idea. Maybe, some time, we could have a USA-free day for the world as a whole, not just for pen-l. BTW, the current issue of Left Business Observer is very good, as usual. in pen-l solidarity, Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] 74267,[EMAIL PROTECTED] Econ. Dept., Loyola Marymount Univ. 7900 Loyola Blvd., Los Angeles, CA 90045-8410 USA 310/338-2948 (daytime, during workweek); FAX: 310/338-1950 "It takes a busload of faith to get by." -- Lou Reed.
[PEN-L:6905] Re: I'm afraid to say this...
I'm afraid to say this, but isn't a USA-free day a case of (gasp)
CENSORSHIP?
if so, it's a good idea. Maybe, some time, we could have a USA-free
day for the world as a whole, not just for pen-l.
i warming up for when us OZ types and etc will rule pen-l for 24 hours at
least. (note how i assign the rest of the world minus US and OZ as "etc", i
have been learning my lessons well .).
anyway, i am still waiting to know when tomorrow begins. then the flood of
emails will begin.
topics to be discussed:
1. the role of trade unions in a community-based green society
2. how governments have to find value in the bottom 20 per cent.
3. why listening to classical music stops the revolutions.
4. why censoring the USA for the whole world is a breakthrough.
among others.
kind regards
bill
--
## William F. Mitchell
### Head of Economics Department
#University of Newcastle
New South Wales, Australia
###* E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
###Phone: +61 49 215065
# ## ###+61 49 215027
Fax: +61 49 216919
## http://econ-www.newcastle.edu.au/~bill/billyhp.html
"only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned
and the last fish been caught will we realise we cannot eat money."
(Cree Indian saying...circa 1909)
[PEN-L:6904] Re: Off Limits: USA
Michael wrote: Tomorrow, I hope that I can remember myself, I am going to ask all posters from the U.S. to hold off posting to pen-l to encourage those from other countries to introduce themselves or to tell us how pen-l could serve them better. We have probably 100 people from outside of the U.S. We get quite a bit from Canada, some from OZ or NZ, and occassionaly something from Europe. Let's hear from you. --- This is a very good proposal to give us one day a week for picnic. I would like to add to his proposal this one: We should have one day a week "European Forum," One day "Asian Forum," and one day "Third World Forum." We shoud set aside one day to air each forum. The US posters should be silent just one day a week so that we can hear other voices and other peoples' concerns. Fikret *+* +Fikret Ceyhun voice: (701)777-3348 work + +Dept. of Economics (701)772-5135 home + +Univ. of North Dakota fax:(701)777-5099 + +University Station, Box 8369 + +Grand Forks, ND 58202/USA e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] + *+*
[PEN-L:6906] Re: Off Limits: USA
This is a very good proposal to give us one day a week for picnic. I would
like to add to his proposal this one: We should have one day a week
"European Forum," One day "Asian Forum," and one day "Third World Forum."
We shoud set aside one day to air each forum. The US posters should be
silent just one day a week so that we can hear other voices and other
peoples' concerns.
Fikret
Okay the netherlands is in europe - i know that.
japan is in asia - i know that
ghana is in the (i hate this colonialist term) "the third world" - i know that
so where is OZ svp?
in all three probably!
kind regards
bill
--
## William F. Mitchell
### Head of Economics Department
#University of Newcastle
New South Wales, Australia
###* E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
###Phone: +61 49 215065
# ## ###+61 49 215027
Fax: +61 49 216919
## http://econ-www.newcastle.edu.au/~bill/billyhp.html
"only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned
and the last fish been caught will we realise we cannot eat money."
(Cree Indian saying...circa 1909)
