Re: Alienation?

2001-11-25 Thread Chris Burford

At 24/11/01 22:12 -0800, you wrote:

When gripes take on the scale and complexity of 9-11 the binary of
legitimacy and it's other are literally mangled and the Hobbesian
realm manifests itself -even in a post-Westphalian sense.

Ian


Or hopefully  more a Spinozist realm.

Chris Burford





pause for focussed thought?

2001-11-25 Thread Chris Burford

At 24/11/01 14:21 -0800, you wrote:
Mark, I asked you to put this to bed.  My e-mail has been blocked for a
few hours, so this just came in.  I think that it would be best to unsub
for a while.  I regard most of what you post to be very interesting.  You
know a great deal about the oil industry and Russia.  Why in the world
would you continue to stir the pot about Doug?

I think the comments do represent a more focussed criticism although I 
think obviously Michael's advice should be respected.

But also on other lists, and I hope perhaps even within a week on this one, 
I think the substantive points should be addressed in a sustained way. 
Otherwise the appearance lingers that this is merely a personal 
polarization between two individuals, or that there is censorship going on 
(which I do not think there is providing the right form of the debate can 
be agreed). Key issues IMO are:


  [COMMENT: George's proposals inhabit that new utopian world of financial
  gimmickry that the Tobin Tax also belongs to.


Although George's proposals are obviously reforms and IMHO she is blind to 
the uneven accumulation of capital, are proposals for regulation of finance 
at an international level necessarily gimmickry? I would be glad to join 
with Mark in a future discussion reviewing how the debate has changed over 
the last three years.


  Every major imperialist war has
  involved unprovoked attacks on us. From a certain perspective, the USA
  was just as justified as taking revenge over Pearl Harbor as we are
  today.


The question of whether the war from 1941- 1945 was just an imperialist war 
and only to be addressed in class terms needs fuller discussion. I know 
Mark's position may not be identical to the brief comments indicated here. 
Assumptions about these questions as well as about the best left response 
to the first world war, underly what on the surface has been manifested in 
a strong personal exchange. It is about imperial power, war, class 
struggle, the probability of revolution. It needs a review of the role of 
left opposition over the whole of the 20th century, and whether the 
economic and political power relations have changed to a signficant degree 
over that time.

I do not make these points to perpetuate a thread that Michael wants to be 
put to one side for the time being [please do not reply on any matter of 
substance] but to join procedurally at least in agreeing the importance of 
the objective issues. That might make it easier for people to accept the 
frustrations and prepare for a more sustained and possibly effective 
arguing of the case they think is necessary, after a due interval which 
Michael has requested.

Perhaps the test should be whether anyone can prepare a more sustained 
argument on these questions which appears relevant to the aims of PEN-L and 
let Michael see it before posting directly to the list.

Chris Burford

London








Empire and economic periphery

2001-11-25 Thread Chris Burford

At 24/11/01 23:08 -0500, Yoshie wrote:

As I wrote in another post, I think that capitalism at present doesn't 
modernize the periphery; if anything, it tends to de-modernize, producing 
an increasing number of dissolved nations, failed/failing states, 
criminalized transnational networks of 
production/distribution/consumption,  reactionary ideologies (including 
fundamentalist Islamism but far from limited to it) to go with them, all 
of which have been barely managed by the Empire's police actions, UN 
protectorates,  the like.
--
Yoshie


Quite.

Empire has not addressed the tendency of capital to uneven accumulation 
except by way of handwringing periodic forgiveness of debts, and partial 
access to rich markets while the market system under the uncontrolled 
fetishised domination of finance capital perpetuates, and even accelerates, 
the same process of uneven accumulation.

The police action against Osama bin Laden will prove to be an expensive way 
of insuring the skyscraper temples of capital. It is likely to sow further 
dragon's teeth. After all the anthrax terrorist is probably a singleton. 
The police action could prove to be an even better dispersant, than 
container, of terrorism.

Empire needs to get back to the economic drawing board. And the multitude 
need to hold them to it.

Chris Burford

London





Re: Re:_[PEN-L:19875]_Alienation?_was_Re:_ETUR@Î

2001-11-25 Thread Tim Bousquet


--- Ian Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 When gripes take on the scale and complexity of 9-11
 the binary of
 legitimacy and it's other are literally mangled and
 the Hobbesian
 realm manifests itself -even in a post-Westphalian
 sense.

Yep, that'll convince the boys down at the tavern...
I'll whip that sucker out at half-time and we'll have
world peace by the end of the third quarter.

tim

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Class struggle sharpens in Venezuela

2001-11-25 Thread Michael Pugliese

Message: 3
   Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 23:44:59 +0100
   From: Partija rada [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Class struggle sharpens in Venezuela

AP. 22 November 2001. Venezuela Calls in Riot Police to Quell Clashes
Between Opposition Demonstrators, Government Supporters.

CARACAS -- Venezuelan police and National Guardsmen fired hundreds of
shots into the air and sprayed tear gas to stop President Hugo Chavez's
supporters from storming an opposition march Thursday.

The centrist Democratic Action Party organized the march through
downtown Caracas to protest special powers that give Chavez the
authority to pass laws without parliamentary debate.

Clashes broke out as Chavez supporters from his leftist Fifth Republic
Movement Party, hearing about the march, streamed downtown to stop the
opposition protest. Shouts of Long live Chavez! were met with Chavez
out!

Riot police tried to separate the two groups - a total of about 6,000
people - but fistfights broke out between the opponents. Police trained
a fire hose on Chavez backers to keep them from storming the march.

Hours later, Democratic Action supporters were able to finish their
march and hold a brief rally, and a tense calm prevailed.

Hundreds of police stood guard as Chavez supporters rallied near
Congress, some chanting: Next time, we'll come with guns!

No arrests were made and no injuries were reported, Metropolitan Police
Chief Henry Vivas said.

Vivas said police would remain on the streets until the rival bands
dissipated. A helicopter hovered overhead and police officers stood
guard on rooftops. At least 100 National Guardsmen surrounded the
Legislative Palace.

The protest follows Chavez's approval last week of a package of 49 laws
affecting the economy.

[N.B.] The most contentious is a Land Reform Law that outlining
government expropriation of private land that lies idle.

Venezuela's biggest business group, Fedecamaras, complained that the law
requires farmers to conform to a national agriculture plan drawn up by
the government.

Opposition parties and business groups accuse Chavez's government of
failing to consult with the private sector.





Re: Alienation? was Re:ETUR@Î

2001-11-25 Thread Carrol Cox



Justin Schwartz wrote:
 
 I have no idea what Ian means in his remarks below, but Carol's are totally
 off the wall.

I haven't found an accurate way to word the question yet -- but it is
definitely not off the wall. What I'm asking for is an imaginative
effort to see the world through the eyes of probably a couple of billion
people who are (in respect to 'us') radically _other_. And let me remake
a distinction I made earlier, I think on lbo. The 'perpetrators' of 911
were, seemingly, mostly from Saudi Arabia and mostly from reasonably
comfortable, even wealthy backgrounds. Leaving aside (and that is a big
leaving aside) their religion, they did not _personally_ suffer from
U.S. global mastery. They were 'merely' angry. (Note: I used the weakest
word I could think of, gripe, in my original query, expecting readers
to fill it in with substance.)

But mere personal anger, mere personal fanaticism, does not, ordinarily,
generate mass terrorism: at most it gives us a Colombine incident. The
terrorist has to have some grounds for believing that (s)he represents,
speaks and acts for, something greater than his/her mere personal
feelings. That is where the Palestine, Iraq, Sudan, Africa come in. Just
as the Narodniks (falsely?) thought they were 'speaking' for the masses
of the oppressed Russian peasantry, not merely their own rage and
frustration, so al Quaida can only operate as it does because they can
tell themselves that they do it in the name of those oppressed millions.

 Whatever gripes or criticisms someone may have with the US
 don't justify killing thousands of innocent people here who have done
 nothing to harm them.

Just compare the tone of the term criticism (in respect to monstrous
U.S. crimes) with all the emotional power behind U.S. 'critics' of al
Quaida and 911. The response is simply all out of proportion to the
actual human suffering involved. When the announcement of Pearl Harbor
interrupted the radio broadcasting a Bears-Cardinals game some 60 years
ago, the response I still remember was that of one of my aunts (my
favorite aunt in fact) who saw it as a joke: they could not possibly
be attacking us. I think there is a lot of that shock involved in
responses, right and left, to 911. How dare they attack US! I still
maintain that they were _not_ attacking us; they were attacking the
U.S. government in the only way they knew how, and we got in the way.
The obscene phrase collateral damage literally applies.

(Incidentally, if you look back through my posts on 911 you will notice
that I ceased using the jargon phrase innocent people whether I was
referring to victims of Hiroshima and Vietnam or 911 and substituted the
more neutral phrase, civilians. I started but never pursued a project
a year or so ago of collecting the jargon terms used by those who
condemn leftist jargon. Posts on 911 should offer a rich harvest of such
terms.)

 There are lots of ways to resist US domination that do
 not involve mass murder.

Come now. The U.S., with all its titanic resources, has never worked out
a way of attacking its enemies without resorting to mass murder. Tell me
one of those ways -- and no utopian descriptions allowed. Those ways
have to account for U.S. power and the U.S. willingness to use that
power without restraint.


 I will add, too, that the specific program of al
 Quaida, the apparent perpetrators of the 9/11 massacre, has nothing to do
 with advancing any goal that anyone on the left could care to propose--not
 that it would have been better if it had a left program.

Granted. But leftists in the U.S. have a basic obligation (Chomsky is
good on this) to oppose the double standard of judgment by which the
U.S. is always assumed to be innocent (not just until proven guilty but
period, regardless), and enemies of the U.S. are assumed to be guilty
(of something). There is a matter of burden of proof here. Until
positively demonstrated otherwise, in the case of enemies of the U.S.
the principle of the enemy of my enemy is my friend applies. It will
not always hold, but the burden of proof in all cases will be on those
who deny that a given enemy of the U.S. is a friend of the human
species.

As to whether al Quaida has absolutely _nothing_ to do with _any_
possible legitimate goal -- probably but not certainly. Someone said of
Napoleon,

Thank god such men be but few
though they build up human courage

Frankly, it is not up to those living in the u.s. (or any of the OECD
nations) to decide whether this is true or false of al Quaida for those
billions living under the weight of the u.s. empire.

   [clip]
 ===
 When gripes take on the scale and complexity of 9-11 the binary of
 legitimacy and it's other are literally mangled and the Hobbesian
 realm manifests itself -even in a post-Westphalian sense.
 
 Ian

I myself often find Ian's short posts a bit cryptic, but I would
construe this in part as suggesting that the unchallenged and seemingly

Re: Alienation?

2001-11-25 Thread Carrol Cox



Tim Bousquet wrote:
 
 --- Ian Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  [clip] the Hobbesian realm manifests itself 
  -even in a post-Westphalian sense.
 
 Yep, that'll convince the boys down at the tavern...
 I'll whip that sucker out at half-time and we'll have
 world peace by the end of the third quarter.
 

Tim, you would not sneer at a production line worker in an ammunition
plant for being a poor marksman; nor would you sneer at the engineer who
designed the rifle for not being in the front lines firing it. But that
is what you are doing in this [non-]critique of Ian. From some of Ian's
posts I gather that he has done important work in organizing and
agitating for the Seattle Movement -- but frankly it would be as silly
for him to use the same language on this list as it would be for the
engineer to say, the hell with it, let's use the old weapons and I'm off
to the front.

Pen-L is an engineering lab, not the local tavern.

Carrol




Re: Re: Alienation?

2001-11-25 Thread Tim Bousquet

Point taken, but I'll go down to the tavern and watch
the game the game all the same. It's a blue-collar
crowd-- plumbers, electricians, teachers, nurses and
the like-- but also remarkably leftist in politics. To
a person they're opposed to this bombing campaign.
They understand the arguments, and some of them join
the anti-war demonstrations when they swing by. I'd
hate to loose them. 

tim


--- Carrol Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 Tim Bousquet wrote:
  
  --- Ian Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   [clip] the Hobbesian realm manifests itself 
   -even in a post-Westphalian sense.
  
  Yep, that'll convince the boys down at the
 tavern...
  I'll whip that sucker out at half-time and we'll
 have
  world peace by the end of the third quarter.
  
 
 Tim, you would not sneer at a production line worker
 in an ammunition
 plant for being a poor marksman; nor would you sneer
 at the engineer who
 designed the rifle for not being in the front lines
 firing it. But that
 is what you are doing in this [non-]critique of Ian.
 From some of Ian's
 posts I gather that he has done important work in
 organizing and
 agitating for the Seattle Movement -- but frankly it
 would be as silly
 for him to use the same language on this list as it
 would be for the
 engineer to say, the hell with it, let's use the old
 weapons and I'm off
 to the front.
 
 Pen-L is an engineering lab, not the local tavern.
 
 Carrol
 


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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DisorderlyConduct
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Re: Re: Re: Alienation?

2001-11-25 Thread Ian Murray


- Original Message - 
From: Tim Bousquet [EMAIL PROTECTED]



 Point taken, but I'll go down to the tavern and watch
 the game the game all the same. It's a blue-collar
 crowd-- plumbers, electricians, teachers, nurses and
 the like-- but also remarkably leftist in politics. To
 a person they're opposed to this bombing campaign.
 They understand the arguments, and some of them join
 the anti-war demonstrations when they swing by. I'd
 hate to loose them. 
 
 tim
 
==

What's the address? :-)

Ian




RE:Re: Alienation

2001-11-25 Thread jdevine

Frankly, it would be good for the left itself -- and for 
academics themselves -- if people would try to be plain- 
and clear-spoken. I try to follow Orwell's principles 
(elucidated in his politics of the English language) as 
much as I can, though I can't resist words 
like elucidated. The point is to prevent form from 
warping content. -- Jim Devine 

Date:Sun, 25 Nov 2001 11:25:03 -0600
From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CC:  
Subject: [PEN-L:19886] Re: Alienation?

Tim Bousquet wrote:
 
 --- Ian Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  [clip] the Hobbesian realm manifests itself 
  -even in a post-Westphalian sense.
 
 Yep, that'll convince the boys down at the tavern...
 I'll whip that sucker out at half-time and we'll have
 world peace by the end of the third quarter.
 

Tim, you would not sneer at a production line worker in an ammunition plant for being 
a poor marksman; nor would you sneer at the engineer who designed the rifle for not 
being in the front lines firing it. But that is what you are doing in this 
[non-]critique of Ian. From some of Ian's
posts I gather that he has done important work in organizing and agitating for the 
Seattle Movement -- but frankly it would be as silly for him to use the same language 
on this list as it would be for the engineer to say, the hell with it, let's use the 
old weapons and I'm off
to the front.

Pen-L is an engineering lab, not the local tavern.

Carrol



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Re: [PEN-L:19877] Alienation? was Re: ETUR@Î

2001-11-25 Thread Ian Murray


- Original Message -
From: Justin Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED]



 I have no idea what Ian means in his remarks below,

===
A highly concresced [Whitehead] take on Tilly combined with a
counterfactual exploration of the rejection of the notion that states
*ought* to have a monopoly on the means of violence. The revolution
that made the USA was led by non-state actors. Were their gripes
legitimate or not? Legitimate enough to engage in the agression that
got lots of people killed? How about Napolaean? What about Shell Oil
hiring mercenaries in Nigeria? Drop for a moment your focus on the
legality-illegality of aggression and shift to the politics of just
*who* gets to determine what those very terms will mean. Think of
Chomsky's example of the Mafia don.

Post-Westphalian is a term that's been popping up quite a bit in
international relations literature. It often stands for expressing the
need for scholars to look far more closely at non-state actors in the
shaping of the world-system and how they mold the interests of states.
It's a rejection of the state-centric approach, methodologically and
ontologically. It dosen't say states don't exist, it simply suggests
they shouldn't be the privileged subjects of narratives, explanations
etc.

Excellent texts that explore the issues:

Activists Beyond Borders [Margaret Keck  Kathryn Sikknik]

Coercion, Capital  European States [Charles Tilly]

War Making  State Making as Organized Crime [Ditto]

Mercenaries, Pirates  Sovereigns [Janice Thomson]

Of Rule  Revenue [Margaret Levi]

Approaches to World Order [Robert Cox]

The Social Theory of International Politics [Alexander Wendt]



here are lots of ways to resist US domination that do
 not involve mass murder.

===
Is there any form of aggression involving the death of significant
numbers of human beings that isn't mass murder? If not, then what
legitimates the state's monopoly on violence? Who gets to decide? And
how does one go about averting the infinite regress problem that
connects epistemology to a theory of authority? See:

A Companion to Epistemology [Jonathan Dancy  Ernest Sosa--page
209-212]

Inventing nations : justifications of authority in the modern world
[ Terry H. Pickett ]

The philosophical issue of anarchism will not go away...




I will add, too, that the specific program of al
 Quaida, the apparent perpetrators of the 9/11 massacre, has nothing
to do
 with advancing any goal that anyone on the left could care to
propose--not
 that it would have been better if it had a left program. jks


=

Well on that we all agree.

Ian




bulls and bears

2001-11-25 Thread Ian Murray

Market's Post-Attack Recovery Is a Puzzle


By Carol Vinzant
Special to The Washington Post
Sunday, November 25, 2001; Page H01


Terrorist attack be damned: The market is on a roll.

Since Sept. 21, the Nasdaq composite index has roared back 34 percent
and the Dow Jones industrial average is up 20 percent, nearly to
10,000, where it had not been since August.

Is the market anticipating an economic rally next year? Is the country
more confident because of military success in Afghanistan? Can this
stock market recovery last?

The different answers come from three camps: bull, bear and a third
group that wonders why the questions are being asked at all.

Since the Sept. 11 attacks made the whole world, including the stock
market, riskier, some think that valuing stocks at their pre-attack
levels is unjustified.

For now, the market has moved too far, too fast, said Alan Ackerman,
chief investment strategist at Fahnestock and Co. A contraction in
the market now would be neither unexpected nor unhealthy.

Market fundamentals keep hopes down.

My hesitancy about this market is that absolute valuations are still
absurdly high, whether you look at price-to-book ratios,
price-to-earnings. . . . They're all off the chart, said Jim Paulsen,
chief investment officer at Wells Capital Management.

By the most basic measure - the relationship between stock prices and
earnings - the market is high-priced. In the past two months, the
price-to-earnings ratio of the SP 500 has increased to 46 from less
than 30 as stock prices surged and earnings continued to weaken.

Normally those ratios reach their lows - usually around 10 or 12 - as
optimism is drained from the market before a recovery starts,
according to Comstock Partners. Analysts who pay attention to
fundamental ratios view the current elevated price-to-earnings ratios
as a sure sign of trouble ahead.

It's hard for me to get used to the idea we could be at the start of
a brand-new bull market from record-high valuations, Paulsen said.

The reason the ratios are so out of whack is that while stock prices
have risen this quarter, earnings have not. Analysts at one time held
out hope that the fourth quarter would show improvement over last
year's anemic final three months, if only because those numbers
wouldn't be very hard to beat.

Now even those low expectations have been lowered. According to First
Call/Thomson Financial, the Boston-based investment research firm that
tracks earnings reports, analysts at the beginning of October expected
fourth-quarter earnings for SP companies to drop 8.2 percent from
last year. Now they expect a 17.4 percent decrease.

Many market observers contend that the stock market recovers six
months before the general economy does, meaning that the current
market is hinting at a recovery.

Overall, analysts do expect an earnings recovery next year. The
consensus is for SP 500 earnings to go up 14.9 percent, compared with
a 15.5 percent decrease this year, First Call said.

Last week UBS Warburg strategist Ed Kerschner raised his earnings
estimates for the fourth quarter and for next year. Kerschner lowered
his expectations after the Sept. 11 attacks, but a third-quarter
productivity gain of 2.7 percent, among several factors, turned him
around.

Most important, the war on terrorism is going far better than
expected, which has very positive implications for consumer, business
and investor confidence, Kerschner wrote in his most recent report.

Others, such as Jim Bianco, president of Bianco Research, an
investment research firm based in Barrington, Ill., said recent
economic data converted him from a bear to a bull.

I'm a bull. I'm a believer, he said. I used to be on the dark side
and now I'm not anymore.

The current market reminds him of the 1974 and 1982 recoveries, which
happened faster than anyone anticipated. Declining oil prices and
interest rates, coupled with higher commodity prices, have Bianco
smelling a recovery.

If you were to ask me how the markets would have behaved pointing to
a recovery, it's exactly what it's done, Bianco said.

The factors many people say they worry about - primarily employment
and earnings growth - typically recover last in an economic upswing,
Bianco said. The factors that lead the rest of the economy, such as
car sales, are improving.

Last week the Conference Board said its index of 10 leading economic
indicators increased by 0.3 percent in October. In September the index
fell by 0.5 percent and the consensus was for a flat October.

There is a camp that does not see the market's fall and recovery as
meaningful indicators of where it is going. That group views the
market events of the last month as simply an overwhelmed nation's
reaction to a devastating terror attack.

Charles Minter, a portfolio manager at Comstock Partners who is so
pessimistic that he considers this bear market still a cub, is
surprised that economists and strategists are even trying to interpret
the dip and bounce-back.

It 

wage arbitrage

2001-11-25 Thread Ian Murray

A Factory to the World
China's Vast Labor Pool, Low Wages Lure Manufacturers

By Clay Chandler
Washington Post Foreign Service
Sunday, November 25, 2001; Page A01


DALIAN, China -- Shoji Nishimura, the Japanese general manager of
Mabuchi Motor Co.'s manufacturing compound here, peered over the
shoulder of a blue-smocked Chinese employee as she soldered wires to a
tiny electric-shaver motor gliding down the assembly line.

Two seconds, he exclaimed proudly, gesturing at his watch.

It is a reference to the time each of the 6,000 young workers flanking
conveyor belts has to perform a set of production tasks. In an
eight-hour workday, Mabuchi's production-line workers, nearly all of
whom are women in their early twenties, repeat the same series of
two-second motions tens of thousands of times.

It is daunting labor that requires clear eyesight, nimble fingers and
the ability to concentrate for hours on end. But Mabuchi, like tens of
thousands of other foreign manufacturing concerns, has discovered in
China a nearly inexhaustible supply of workers capable of handling
such assignments -- and willing to take them on for a fraction of the
pay demanded by counterparts in more advanced economies.

Back in Japan, it would be impossible for us to do anything like
this, Nishimura said. For what the company would have to pay a single
entry-level Japanese employee it can hire a dozen people in Dalian,
all of whom do better work, he said. And so Mabuchi, the world leader
for nearly every type of motor it sells, has shifted 90 percent of its
annual production of 1.7 billion micro-motors to China; the company no
longer makes anything in Japan.

The women on Mabuchi's assembly line in Dalian are the vanguard of
what many experts predict will prove to be one of the most important
economic developments of the 21st century: the rise of China as a
modern industrial powerhouse.

China's emergence as a manufacturing giant is improving living
standards here and helping multinationals such as Mabuchi hold down
costs. It also is roiling the global economy, sucking jobs and
investment from other countries, straining political support for open
trade and driving down the price of tradable goods in the midst of a
global recession.

China's admission to the World Trade Organization earlier this month
will only add to this trend -- increasing its appeal by locking in
lower duties for products it exports.

Past predictions that China would become an economic power were
stymied because the nation has never been able to harness the economic
potential of its vast populace. But now companies from Taiwan, Japan,
the United States and other countries are seeking to satisfy the
demands of their customers for lower prices, and China, with its
enormous pool of cheap labor, is fast becoming a factory to the world.

Japanese management consultant Kenichi Ohmae compares China's
emergence as a manufacturing colossus to Japan's spectacular postwar
industrial boom, the rise of America's economy in the early 1900s or
even the dawn of the Industrial Revolution in Britain. The world has
never seen an economy with these qualities before, he wrote of China
recently.

The new heft of China's economy is most keenly felt in Asia, where the
Chinese mainland has swallowed up $321 billion, or 45 percent, of the
$719 billion in direct foreign investment flowing into the region
since 1990. For instance, General Motors Corp., the world's largest
automaker, has invested $1.5 billion to build a manufacturing facility
outside Shanghai. And Motorola Inc. eliminated 40,000 jobs over the
past year, but it has poured $3.4 billion into operations in China,
making it the nation's largest foreign investor.

China is also beginning to undercut its neighbors in crucial export
markets. China's exports soared 27.8 percent, to $249 billion, last
year, far outstripping export growth in the rest of the region. In
2000, Japan posted exports of $477 billion, but its exports have
fallen by 15 percent in the first 10 months of this year, while
China's are up 6.4 percent. Andy Xie, economist with Morgan Stanley
Dean Witter  Co. in Hong Kong, predicts China will export a third
more than Japan in dollar terms within the next five years.

Since 1989, China's share of total U.S. imports has more than tripled,
to 8.4 percent. Japan's share fell by almost half during that period,
to 11 percent, while the combined share of Asia's four tiger
economies -- Hong Kong, South Korea, Singapore and Taiwan -- shrank by
a third, to 8 percent. That of the region's other main exporters --
Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines and Thailand -- rose only a
smidgen.

Analysts at Salomon Smith Barney calculate that, if current growth
rates continue, China's high-technology exports will overtaken Japan's
within the decade.

In a scramble to satisfy U.S. customers' demands for lower prices,
nearly all of Taiwan's leading makers of computer components have
shifted production to the mainland. All told, more than 

Re: Re: Alienation?

2001-11-25 Thread Nick

At 11:09 AM 11/25/01 -0600, Carrol Cox wrote:

But mere personal anger, mere personal fanaticism, does not, ordinarily,
generate mass terrorism: at most it gives us a Colombine incident. The
terrorist has to have some grounds for believing that (s)he represents,
speaks and acts for, something greater than his/her mere personal
feelings.

(Filed: 16/11/2001)

Few Westerners have seen Osama bin Laden's recruitment video in full. So 
what did Julia Magnet, a young Jewish New Yorker, make of it?

THE Third Reich may have honed a formidable propaganda machine, but even 
Hitler might have drawn the line at flashy music videos. In that respect, 
at least, Osama bin Laden has topped the Fuhrer.

Until I sat down to watch a two-hour Al Qa'eda recruitment video, made just 
six months before the September 11 attacks, I had no idea that the champion 
of anti-Americanism had hijacked our Hollywood gimmicks and television 
tricks. Far more likely, I thought, that he'd produce a dreary display of 
militant fundamentalism: lots of ranting against America and Saudi Arabia, 
with some macho gun-play thrown in for show.

What I actually saw was far more worrying: Osama bin Laden beating us at 
our own media game. With devilish cunning, he has plugged into the MTV 
generation - and it's clear he knows how to reach us. I have spent all day 
humming militant Islamic songs. And I am a Jewish twenty-something from New 
York.

For the best part of a week, I have been watching his video over and over 
again, trying to match every syllable with a translation of the Arabic that 
Fawaz Gerges, a professor of Middle Eastern Studies at Sarah Lawrence 
College in New York, has just completed. Long before I understood each 
phrase in its context, I realised that words are only a small part of bin 
Laden's propaganda arsenal. Like Hitler, his speeches are more concerned 
with creating an emotional effect than expounding a concrete message.

Let me give you a 30-second example of how he creates terrorist MTV. The 
screen darkens. We are in a room, playing a virtual reality game: 
assassinate the American leader of your choice. Light pulses from a movie 
screen, hanging eerily in space, as a song pounds over the speakers: We 
defy with our Koran/ with blood, we wipe out our dishonour and shame.

Zoom in from a figure watching the screen to the still image of a Taliban 
fighter straddling a corpse. The music rises. Then, the image changes, as 
if the hands of a clock are erasing it. We are still in the dark room, but 
our anonymous alter-ego is now in Taliban dress. Bush Snr and Colin Powell 
appear on the screen. With cowboy timing, our watching figure reaches into 
his robe to grab a gun. He crouches and fires at the screen, in time to the 
martial rhythm. Smoke obliterates the face of Colin Powell.

Cut to Warren Christopher and President Clinton. Boom! Cut to a close-up of 
Clinton, wearing his habitual self-satisfied smirk. The gunman's shadow 
blocks out Clinton's face. Kerpow! Now, in a parody of the American flag, a 
puzzle of horizontal stripes emerges from each side of the screen, finally 
connecting to reveal two fighters facing down Warren Christopher. Bang, 
bang! Whoosh - the images disappear and the screen spins to reveal Osama 
bin Laden.

He knows his audience. His most impressionable recruits are of the same age 
and sex as MTV's loyal following: alienated teenage boys, full of the 
resentment, hyperactivity and maddening sense of impotence that typify that 
age group - in any country. In the video, the oppressor is not parental 
authority, but the West, which can be blamed for everything.

This is a great propaganda film - the kind that you can't get out of your 
head. Bin Laden's story of Muslim subjugation turning to resistance is so 
effective that I barely need my transcripts. He uses the most sophisticated 
western film-making techniques: it's as if Guy Ritchie, Sylvester Stallone 
and Spielberg have banded together to make jihad, the movie.

Despite all this flashiness, bin Laden seems hardly flamboyant as an orator 
- certainly not modern. Yet his grasp of spin, of product-packaging, is 
chilling. If you did not understand his hateful and ugly words, you could 
easily believe he is simply a preacher. His body language is gentle and 
controlled: only his right hand moves, and then never farther than six 
inches from his body. Rarely does he shake his fist, a gesture familiar in 
all propaganda. When he does, it is with weary anger: his cause is so 
self-evident that he does not need an indignant mime show.

But it is those eyes that grab you - otherworldly, luminous eyes that 
remind me of Charles Manson's. They never meet the camera. It is as if he 
doesn't see this world - only the spiritual dimension.

I had half-expected some of Hitler's propaganda tactics: highly 
choreographed mass events, flanks of elite soldiers, booming speeches. Bin 
Laden employs none of those. When he is on screen, the camera stays on 

Re: Alienation?

2001-11-25 Thread Nick

Carrol Cox wrote:

I have a question. Granted that some hundreds of millions of people have
a real gripe against the U.S., and granted that they are utterly
powerless to express that gripe in legitimate ways, what should they do?
Those leftists who have labelled 911 a crime against humanity have
objectively taken the position that any or all resistance to U.S. power
is illegitimate.

http://www.ucomics.com/boondocks/viewbo.cfm?uc_fn=1uc_full_date=20011122uc_daction=Xuc_comic=bo




pretty exhaustive Doha analysis

2001-11-25 Thread Ian Murray

 http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/ 




Re: Re: [PEN-L:19877] Alienation? was Re: ETUR@Î

2001-11-25 Thread Justin Schwartz


[Should] states
. . . . have a monopoly on the means of violence[?]

Who said they should? I mean, it depends on the circumstances, and the 
violence and its purpose. In Afghanistan today, I bet the people under 
Northern Alliance rule wish they was a state with a monopoly on the means of 
violence. Despite the misbehavior of the Chicago Police, I know for sure 
that there are a lot of people on the South Side who wish there was a state 
monopoly on the means of violence. But not in, say, South Africa in the 
1970s and 1980s, or Niacaragau in the 1970s, etc.

The revolution
that made the USA was led by non-state actors. Were their gripes
legitimate or not? Legitimate enough to engage in the agression that
got lots of people killed?

Well, aggression is loaded word, like murder. The Amedrican 
revolutionaries didn't think they were engaging in agression--unjustified 
initiation of violence.

Drop for a moment your focus on the
legality-illegality of aggression and shift to the politics of just
*who* gets to determine what those very terms will mean. Think of
Chomsky's example of the Mafia don.

Despite being a lawyer, that wasn't my focus. I don't know enough about 
international law to know with alot of confidence when international 
violence is legal.


Post-Westphalian is a term that's been popping up quite a bit in
international relations literature. It often stands for expressing the
need for scholars to look far more closely at non-state actors in the
shaping of the world-system and how they mold the interests of states.

Yah, I studied with Harold Jacobson at Michigan, got an earful of that. He 
gave me my only A+ in grad school. He was impressed that I figured out a way 
to operationalize Lenin's theory of imperialism.


Is there any form of aggression involving the death of significant
numbers of human beings that isn't mass murder?

Sure. Leaving aside the word aggression, a just war is one. Murder is 
illegitimate killing. We _had_ to fight Nazis, even though in doing so a lot 
of innocent peiople would be killed. Likewise the Vietnamese and Cuban 
revolutions, or any more or less liberatory revolutioon.

If not, then what
legitimates the state's monopoly on violence?

You could start with Hobbes and think about the alternative in many 
circumstances: the war of all against all.

Who gets to decide?

Well, we do, don't we? Who do you suggest that we might defer to?

And
how does one go about averting the infinite regress problem that
connects epistemology to a theory of authority?

This isn't a crucial practical problem, but I do have an elaborate answer to 
this in Relativism Reflective Equilibrium and Justice, to which I have 
referred you, and even mailed you a copy.


 I will add, too, that the specific program of al
  Quaida, the apparent perpetrators of the 9/11 massacre, has nothing
to do
  with advancing any goal that anyone on the left could care to
propose--not
  that it would have been better if it had a left program. jks
 

=

Well on that we all agree.

God bless, then. But I could ask you: Who gets to decide? ;)

jks

_
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




Re: [PEN-L:19896] Re: Re: [PEN-L:19877] Alienation? was Re: ETUR@Î

2001-11-25 Thread Ian Murray


- Original Message -
From: Justin Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED]




 [Should] states
 . . . . have a monopoly on the means of violence[?]

 Who said they should? I mean, it depends on the circumstances, and
the
 violence and its purpose. In Afghanistan today, I bet the people
under
 Northern Alliance rule wish they was a state with a monopoly on the
means of
 violence. Despite the misbehavior of the Chicago Police, I know for
sure
 that there are a lot of people on the South Side who wish there was
a state
 monopoly on the means of violence. But not in, say, South Africa in
the
 1970s and 1980s, or Niacaragau in the 1970s, etc.

 The revolution
 that made the USA was led by non-state actors. Were their gripes
 legitimate or not? Legitimate enough to engage in the agression
that
 got lots of people killed?

 Well, aggression is loaded word, like murder. The Amedrican
 revolutionaries didn't think they were engaging in
agression--unjustified
 initiation of violence.

=
How could it not be a loaded term? :-)

Isn't the central problem of violence in political life the
repudiation of  some parties proferred justification of disagreement?
Them's fightin' words..Kill the King...  When have aggressors
thought they weren't justified and yet gone on their merry way? Can
anyone imagine Hitler in a moment of introspection even asking whether
he was justified and saying to himself  no I'm not but if I win,
who'll be able to say I wasn't?





 Drop for a moment your focus on the
 legality-illegality of aggression and shift to the politics of just
 *who* gets to determine what those very terms will mean. Think of
 Chomsky's example of the Mafia don.

 Despite being a lawyer, that wasn't my focus. I don't know enough
about
 international law to know with alot of confidence when international
 violence is legal.
=

I was attempting to point out that those who engage in war making at
the interstate level aren't too interested in legalities. You think
those who pursued the war in Viet Nam asked whether it was legal? How
about Korea or take your pick




 
 Post-Westphalian is a term that's been popping up quite a bit in
 international relations literature. It often stands for expressing
the
 need for scholars to look far more closely at non-state actors in
the
 shaping of the world-system and how they mold the interests of
states.

 Yah, I studied with Harold Jacobson at Michigan, got an earful of
that. He
 gave me my only A+ in grad school. He was impressed that I figured
out a way
 to operationalize Lenin's theory of imperialism.

===
Now that's a paper I'd like to see. :-)



 Sure. Leaving aside the word aggression, a just war is one.
Murder is
 illegitimate killing. We _had_ to fight Nazis, even though in doing
so a lot
 of innocent peiople would be killed. Likewise the Vietnamese and
Cuban
 revolutions, or any more or less liberatory revolutioon.


The justification of defense is barely half the problem of just war
theory.






 If not, then what
 legitimates the state's monopoly on violence?

 You could start with Hobbes and think about the alternative in many
 circumstances: the war of all against all.

 Who gets to decide?

 Well, we do, don't we? Who do you suggest that we might defer to?


Nobody, no one has the right to inaugurate violence. No one has the
authority...isn't that some simple variant of 'the golden rule'.
Obviously our species has an enforcement problem with such
simplicities







 And
 how does one go about averting the infinite regress problem that
 connects epistemology to a theory of authority?

 This isn't a crucial practical problem, but I do have an elaborate
answer to
 this in Relativism Reflective Equilibrium and Justice, to which I
have
 referred you, and even mailed you a copy.

==
I just got it, thanx.



 
  I will add, too, that the specific program of al
   Quaida, the apparent perpetrators of the 9/11 massacre, has
nothing
 to do
   with advancing any goal that anyone on the left could care to
 propose--not
   that it would have been better if it had a left program. jks
  
 
 =
 
 Well on that we all agree.

 God bless, then. But I could ask you: Who gets to decide? ;)

 jks


=

Decide a left program? Hah, you're a very funny man. We'd rather form
verbal firing squads than ask such easy questions. :-)


As for the Al Qaeda's of the present and future, nay, how to
non-violently stop those who disagree...!

Ian




Re: Alienation?

2001-11-25 Thread Yoshie Furuhashi

Nobody, no one has the right to inaugurate violence.

If all the slaves, serfs, commoners, colonized natives, etc. had 
thought so, maybe we'd be still stuck in feudalism or colonialism or 
something like that.
-- 
Yoshie

* Calendar of Anti-War Events in Columbus: 
http://www.osu.edu/students/sif/calendar.html
* Anti-War Activist Resources: http://www.osu.edu/students/sif/activist.html
* Anti-War Organizing in Columbus Covered by the Media: 
http://www.osu.edu/students/sif/media.html




Re: Re: Alienation?

2001-11-25 Thread Ian Murray


- Original Message -
From: Yoshie Furuhashi [EMAIL PROTECTED]



 Nobody, no one has the right to inaugurate violence.

 If all the slaves, serfs, commoners, colonized natives, etc. had
 thought so, maybe we'd be still stuck in feudalism or colonialism or
 something like that.
 --
 Yoshie
==
Maybe we'd never have had to go through those epochs to arrive at the
presentbecause those social kinds would never have existed.

Ian




CIA and Taliban

2001-11-25 Thread Karl Carlile

It appears that events in Afghanistan follow, in many ways the same
pattern that lead to the collapse of the Milosevic regime and the latter
eventual apprehension.

It would appear that the fingerprints of the CIA are all over the recent
sequence of events in Afghanistan. The collapse of the Taliban regime
has all the hallmarks of a CIA orchestrated coup. The apparent wholesale
organised defections of substantial parts of Taliban forces to the
Opposition explains the apparently bloodless takeover of Kabul and
elsewhere. This process  has snowballed to such a degree that even in
the Pashtun regions of Afghanistan former supporters have defected too.
This explains the apparent dramatic and rapid transfer of power from
Taliban to the opposition. It would almost seem, information is so
tightly restricted, that the Taliban  in Islamabad  has merely changed
uniform --as tribal chiefs. It now appears that this process of
collaboration with the CIA has penetrated right into the heart of the
Taliban's natural support in the Kandahar region.

Doubtlessly the relentless and intensive air strikes were a decisive
factor in the disintegration of the Taliban regime. However had the
organised movement of defection, in effect a coup, not occurred it is
probable that the Taliban forces would have held out longer in Northern
and Central Afghanistan. These defections were based, it would appear,
on CIA dollars and promises. An added factor was 'rats leaving the
sinking ship' phenomenon. However the fact that, it would appear, many
of these Taliban defectors proceeded to take up offensive positions
against their former Taliban comrades is what particularly lends truth
to my coup detat thesis. The apparent welcome that the  defecting
Taliban forces received after defection may further confirm the thesis.
As with the coup against the Milosevic regime there was much theatre
involved. In many ways the ground war had all the appearances of a
phoney war in the purest sense. Opposition soldiers playing volley ball,
sitting around and grinning at cameras etc. Letting off a round of
artillery fire with a fag hanging from the artillery man's mouth while
grinning at the cameras --theatricals for the western journalists badly
in need of a story and an image or two to keep themselves in a job and
keep the ratings from falling. The soldiers of the Opposition were
playing toy soldiers while  Western journalists played toy
journalism --the spectacle.

The coup also involved the defection of Pakistan and Saudia Arabia from
the Taliban. The key factor in the collapse of the Taliban regime was
the mass internal and external defection from the Taliban --not the
bombings . In the case of the defection of Pakistan bribery by
Washington was a significant factor.

The Afghanistan war that still has not been begun to be told. Badly
needed is investigative journalism that seeks to get to the real story.
Indeed the amount of misinformation, disinformation, rumour and lies has
been unprecedented. Clearly the British and US counter-intelligence was
busy at work putting planting the pages and screens of the media.

The war in Afghanistan has been in many ways one of the best kept
secrets. Yet it was presented as a war that was being well covered by
the media. But this war as experienced by the Western masses is one that
is pure illusion produced by the bourgeois media with the help of the
CIA. This war is a war that never took place. Fact and fiction become
jumbled up until they become indistinguishable. Politics and war is
turned into entertainment that competes with film and sport for
customers.

The media was conspicuous by its failure to provide facts and
information. The more this war unfold on our TV screens the more
unintelligible it became. This culminates in the Northern Alliance
becoming the Taliban and the Taliban the Northern Alliance. No longer
were the warring parties identifiable. It becomes questionable as to
were warring parties and as to what the war, if there was a war, was all
about. The enemy of the Northern Alliance is no longer the Taliban but
Pakistanis, Arabs and Chechens. So the Northern.

This is war about which we lack the facts. It is like trying to do a
jigsaw puzzle with half the pieces missing. The result is mere
subjectivist speculation that renders it much more difficult that
renders a correct communist approach to the war very difficult. There
has been the real, but secret, war and the systematic fabrication as
presented by the broadcasting and print media network. We are now being
informed that only half of the 6000 fatalities really occurred in New
York and Washington. The casus belli was based on a fiction. Perhaps
then Bin Laden did not destroy the WTC. Perhaps the CIA knew of the
attack but let it happen because of the chain reaction that it would
trigger off. The role and character of the media in contributing to
apparent success of US imperialism can be partly attributed to role of
the bourgeois media.

For 

Re: Alienation?

2001-11-25 Thread Yoshie Furuhashi

- Original Message -
From: Yoshie Furuhashi [EMAIL PROTECTED]

   Nobody, no one has the right to inaugurate violence.

  If all the slaves, serfs, commoners, colonized natives, etc. had
  thought so, maybe we'd be still stuck in feudalism or colonialism or
  something like that.
  --
  Yoshie
==
Maybe we'd never have had to go through those epochs to arrive at the
presentbecause those social kinds would never have existed.

Ian

But we know that ruling classes (by they lords, bourgeoisie, etc.) 
have never accepted the idea you advocate; nor will they.  The 
question of use of violence has to be considered with reference to 
the real world.




Re: Re: Alienation?

2001-11-25 Thread Ian Murray


- Original Message -
From: Yoshie Furuhashi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 1:42 PM
Subject: [PEN-L:19901] Re: Alienation?


 - Original Message -
 From: Yoshie Furuhashi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
Nobody, no one has the right to inaugurate violence.
 
   If all the slaves, serfs, commoners, colonized natives, etc. had
   thought so, maybe we'd be still stuck in feudalism or
colonialism or
   something like that.
   --
   Yoshie
 ==
 Maybe we'd never have had to go through those epochs to arrive at
the
 presentbecause those social kinds would never have existed.
 
 Ian

 But we know that ruling classes (by they lords, bourgeoisie, etc.)
 have never accepted the idea you advocate; nor will they.  The
 question of use of violence has to be considered with reference to
 the real world.

==
Yup, the golden rule is for wimps and cowardspower and
domination is where the fun is...

Ian




Afghan Online Press

2001-11-25 Thread michael pugliese


   Just discovered a good resource on Afghanistan. 75 pgs. of
newstories from today and yesterday in the Today's News from
Afghanistan section of the Afghan Online Press website.
And it recommends a website called the Rational Radical, and
the Ahmad rashid book among others so don't be put off by the
links there to VOA!
Michael Pugliese




Re: Alienation?

2001-11-25 Thread Carrol Cox



Ian Murray wrote:
 
 -[clip]
 
 Nobody, no one has the right to inaugurate violence. [Ian in earlier post]
  
 [clip]
  [Yoshie]
  But we know that ruling classes (by they lords, bourgeoisie, etc.)
  have never accepted the idea you advocate; nor will they.  The
  question of use of violence has to be considered with reference to
  the real world.
 
 ==
 Yup, the golden rule is for wimps and cowardspower and
 domination is where the fun is...
 

You jump too many stages of the argument here. The golden rule operates
at far too high a level of abstraction, and the question is not of where
the fun is but a question of necessity: that is, the question is not
whether to _inaugurate_ violence but of how to _meet_ violence.
Revolutionaries very rarely initiate violence but respond to attack. The
NLF began armed resistance in South Vietnam (against the wishes of the
DRV) not in a search for power or domination but in response to a choice
of fight or die. John Adams, overhearing a farmer in a bar room say,
Rebel, said he was disgusted -- he would _meet_ rebellion when the
King began it. And the Civil War in China was initiated by the
nationalist forces, not by the Red Army.

Had there not been armed units in Iran prepared for resistance that
peaceful revolution might well have been drowned in blood. The Shah
might have trusted his troops to quell the demonstrations, but not to
continue the struggle were resistance encountered.

Incidentally, there is no such thing as violence -- that is, there is no
acceptable category that contains all the various human activities that
are loosely (and incorrectly) gathered under the label violence. Hence
there can be no useful discussion of Violence in the abstract.

Carrol




[Fwd: Family victims of 9/11 lead DC to NYC Peace Walk]

2001-11-25 Thread Carrol Cox

- Original Message - 
From: Irene Saikevych
To: @mind.net;
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 12:04 PM
Subject: Family victims of 9/11 lead DC to NYC Peace Walk


  Family Members of 9/11 Victims to Lead DC-NYC Peace Walk: Our Grief is
Not a Cry for War
WASHINGTON - November 24 - Amber Amundson, whose husband Craig was
killed in the attack on the Pentagon, wrote shortly after the attack, “I
call on our national leaders to find the courage to break the cycle of
violence.” Sentiments like these have come from others who lost spouses,
children, brothers or sisters. This week some of these mourners are
going beyond words, joining a walk that will link the two cities that
were struck. Their message to all they meet as they walk or assemble
along the way: Our grief is not a cry for war.

The group of survivors and friends will set off at 9 AM Sunday, November
25, from the front gates of Georgetown University in Washington, DC
(37th and O Street). They will arrive the next Sunday, December 2, in
New York City. In between they will walk some distances and shuttle
others, stopping in Baltimore, Philadelphia, Paterson and other
locations to take parts in events being organized by local churches and
other groups. 

Craig Amundson’s brother, Ryan, will also join the walk. He states, “We
don’t want to see more widowed mothers like my sister-in-law, more
little kids without a dad like my niece and nephew, more moms and dads
outliving their son like my parents, or more brothers losing brothers
like me. The current reliance on military force does not confront the
political, social, and economic foundations of terrorism. By emphasizing
a military solution, the United States will not effectively combat
terrorism.” 

Buddhist and Franciscan monks will join the walk, as will leaders from
various faith-based and peacemaking communities. Any persons who support
a call for nonviolence are welcome to join in the walk as it moves
north. On November 25, walkers will proceed to St. Aloysius Church (19
Eye Street) where they will welcome the public to a 6:30 p.m. gathering
at the McKenna Center.

A large decorated school bus will shuttle walkers between cities. Daily
itinerary updates available this website. This walk is endorsed by AFSC,
FOR, Pax Christi USA, Peace Action USA, Veterans for Peace, War
Resister’s League, Voices in the Wilderness, and Women’s International
League for Peace and Freedom, among others.




Renowned U.S. Economists Denounce Corporate-Led Globalization

2001-11-25 Thread Charles Brown

Renowned U.S. Economists Denounce Corporate-Led Globalization

Published on Wednesday, November 21, 2001
Nobel Prize winner Joseph Stiglitz and internationally acclaimed
economist Paul Krugman decry undemocratic, unsound, and unethical
corporate agenda

by James L. Phelan

It seems critics of corporate-led globalization have some new allies.
Recent Nobel Prize winner Joseph Stiglitz, along with well-known
economist Paul Krugman, have of late made a flurry of public
statements critical of the policies and processes of the World Trade
Organization (WTO), the World Bank / IMF, and the proposed Free Trade
Area of the Americas (FTAA)  while leaving plenty of harsh words for
the blatantly pro-corporate actions of the Bush Administration. Both
economists point to the disruptive and distorting influence of large
corporate entities through their dominance over both domestic and
international institutions.

Stiglitz and Krugman have begun to voice their indignation more
frequently in the press, raising many of the same concerns that
social justice and environmental advocates have long made about the
disproportionate influence of big business and the hypocrisy of free
market dogma.

Taking Care of Business
In a recent column appearing in the New York Times, Krugman stated:
Cynics tell us that money has completely corrupted our politics,
that in the last election big corporations basically bought
themselves a government that will serve their interests. Several
related events last week suggest that the cynics have a point. As
evidence of heavy-handed corporate opportunism, Krugman takes issue
with the recent claims by security interests that federalizing
airport security would represent a taking  a bald move by private
interests to maintain a questionable security status quo free from
public calls for more systematic scrutiny.

Krugman then assails the House Stimulus Bill, stating that the
remarkable thing we learned from that bill was that conservative
politicians  who used to claim that they were improving incentives
by reducing marginal tax rates, and that it was just an incidental
side effect that big corporations and wealthy individuals were so
richly rewarded  no longer feel the need to disguise their payoffs.
As he states, the principal goal of the bill is to repeal
retroactively the corporate alternative minimum tax, which means
that selected companies would immediately receive huge lump sum
payments from the government, totaling around $25 billion, with no
incentive effect at all. What's worse is that there are no strings
attached to those gifts: if the companies want to, say, pay huge
bonuses to top executives, they can. Republicans have always depended
on the kindness of corporations, but this bill takes that faith to
extremes.

Very little here, says Krugman, is representative of sound economic
policies aimed at economic recovery, not to mention the need for
shared sacrifice in times of belt-tightening. Corporate interests, as
Krugman rightly points out, have friends in convenient political
circles. In a blunt conclusion, Krugman sums it up saying that the
truth must be spoken. Lately our government has not exactly inspired
confidence; its response to terrorism is starting to look a bit
scatterbrained. But on some subjects our leaders are quite
clearheaded: whatever else may be going on, they make sure that they
are taking care of business.

Corporate-Led Globalization
When it comes to decrying the disruptive influence of the corporate
agenda internationally  whether in the WTO or the FTAA  most
critics have focused their energies on denouncing the anti-democratic
nature of international trade and investment regimes and their narrow
focus on liberalizing markets at all costs.

A recent interview with Joseph Stiglitz, however  the ultimate World
Bank/IMF insider  sheds new light on what many have long suspected:
documents and testimony on secret industry-governmental meetings, the
behind the scenes agenda-setting of transnational corporate
interests, and the apparent hidden agenda of the WB/IMF.

This conspiratorial assessment of hidden agendas could easily be
shrugged off as baseless  except that this account comes to us from
a fired-up and increasingly political Stiglitz. Fired from the World
Bank in 1999 for his criticism of the WB/IMF's policies, Stiglitz has
refused to keep quiet as these institutions  largely serving under
the dictates of the U.S. Treasury Department  impose policies
internationally that he claims have condemned people to death.

Only recently in the news for winning the Nobel Peace Prize for
economics, Stiglitz seems to be using this surge in international
attention to criticize corporate-friendly policies and to lend his
support to the momentum of social justice groups organizing for
greater transparency and participation in international policy-making
processes.

In a recent debriefing with the London Observer's Gregory Palast, the
former World Bank Chief Economist roundly 

Study of Cuban labor unions

2001-11-25 Thread Charles Brown

MAURICE AND JANE SUGAR LAW CENTER
FOR ECONOMIC AND SOCIAL JUSTICE:

A PROJECT OF THE NATIONAL LAWYERS GUILD
645 Griswold, Suite 1800 Y Detroit, Michigan 48226
Phone 313-962-6540 Y Fax 313-962-4492
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Y http://www.sugarlaw.org

Contact : Marshall Rosenthal, Marilyn Katz

312/822-0505
Debra Evenson: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

First Comprehensive Study of the
Role of Cuba's Labor Unions Released

Report details unions' growing voice and influence

DETROIT (Nov. 19, 2001) - In the changing post-Soviet
economy, labor unions in Cuba are rapidly strengthening
their role and sphere of influence, as documented in the
first comprehensive study to be released on unions and
labor-management relations in contemporary Cuba.

According to the provocative new report, Workers in Cuba,
Unions  Labor Relations, released today by the NLG/Maurice
and Jane Sugar Law Center for Economic and Social Justice,
reforms and decentralization of the Cuban economy since 1990
have obligated the unions to shed their passivity and take
on new initiatives in labor-management relations.

Based on a broad survey of Cuban law and literature and
first-hand observations of the labor-relations process on
the shop floor and at workers' meetings during the 12-months
ending in May 2001, the study examines labor policy and
workers' rights and participation within the framework of
the Cuban socialist system.

The Cuban Workers Central (CTC), the Party and the
government are not synonymous, writes study author Debra
Evenson, an attorney and president of the Latin American
Institute for Alternative Legal Services. The fact that the
CTC and the unions both recognize the political guidance of
the Party and implement government policies should not be
interpreted to mean that they only function to rubber stamp
decisions or are merely passive recipients of directives.

In many cases the study found that the CTC has had
significant, and at times decisive, influence on the content
of legislation.  For example:

§ In 1995, Evenson writes, the CTC opposed a provision in
the initial draft of the new Foreign Investment Law that
permitted direct hiring of workers; the CTC insisted on
maintaining a system of contracting workers through state
employment entities.

§ The CTC asked for and obtained a delay in the
implementation of the 1994 tax law that would have levied a
tax on workers' wages to fund social security. The law, in
fact, requires workers to contribute 5 percent of their
salaries to the fund, but the CTC argued that salaries were
still too low to bear this cost and recommended postponing
implementation until wages had risen enough to make the
contribution affordable.

§ Proposed legislation altering the social security system
has been returned to the drawing boards over objections
raised by the CTC.

Lance Compa, senior lecturer at Cornell University's School
of Industrial and Labor Relations, praised the study as a
thorough account of labor law and labor relations in Cuba
and of the advances and retreats of the Cuban labor
movement.

Dealing with a country and issues so quick to arouse
prejudice, Evenson's straightforward treatment provides a
valuable resource for labor-law and labor-policy scholars
and practitioners. It should become a standard reference in
the field, Compa said.

The study covers the key topics concerning labor rights and
union relations in Cuba today, including:

· Trade Unions in Cuba

· Employment and Hiring Policies

· Salary and Other Remuneration

· Collective Bargaining

· Grievance Procedures

· Social Security and Benefits

· Foreign Investment

Evenson, a recognized authority on Cuba, is also the author
of Revolution in the Balance: Law and Society in
Contemporary Cuba, published by Westview Press in 1994.

Writers may obtain an executive summary or a copy of the
complete study by e-mailing Debra Evenson at
[EMAIL PROTECTED] or by calling Marshall Rosenthal or
Marilyn Katz at 312/822-0505.

Workers in Cuba, Unions and Labor Relations, a 92-page
spiral-bound report plus bibliography, is available for $10
(for individuals), or $20 (for institutions) plus $4.50
postage and handling.  To order single copies or for
information on bulk rates write to The NLG/Maurice and Jane
Sugar Law Center for Economic  Social Justice, 733 St.
Antoine, 3rd Floor, Detroit, MI 48226, USA or by email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

###




Re: More on JP Morgan Crashing

2001-11-25 Thread Doug Henwood

Michael Pugliese wrote:

Ruppert is a LaRoucheite. Nuff said?

So, is that a conclusive refutation? You right-sniffers have a 
tendency to substitute identifying an affiliation for making an 
argument.

I think the JPM Chase story is probably way overheated, but that's 
another story.

Doug




South Africa agit-prop

2001-11-25 Thread Patrick Bond

(Excuse cross-postings; please pass it on...)

Some new publications/info/films from/about South Africa:

- Original Message -
From: Franco Barchiesi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 2:55 PM
Subject: DEBATE: TABLE OF CONTENTS - Debate 6/7

 SUBSCRIBE NOW to Debate - Voices from the South African Left

 ISSUE #6/7 is OUT with:

 SPECIAL FOCUS: Local-Global/ Connect-Disconnect

 Naomi Klein, No Fence Big Enough

 Trevor Ngwane, Rethinking American Empire

 David Harvey, Talal Asad, Cindi Katz, Neil Smith and Ida Susser, Local
 Horror/Global Response

 Trevor Ngwane, The 3 Peace Marches in Washington, DC, September 18, 2001

 Neil Smith, Giuliani Space: Revanchist City

 Chris Bolsmann, Deaths at the Stadium: A Different Kind of Terror

 Darlene Miller, Genuine White Lies in Zimbabwe

 Soweto Electricity Crisis Committee, SECC Turns Power On, and Keeps It
On

 Soweto Electricity Crisis Committee, People's Power in Soweto

 Anna Weekes, Communities in the Unicity

 Eddie Cottle, Free Water?

 David Harvey, Local Concerns and Global Ambitions

 John Page, Glocal Opposition to Privatisation: The Case of Hackney, UK

 Ben Cashdan and Dennis Brutus, Racism Conference a Victory for the EU

 Prishani Naidoo, The Silencing Power of the World Conference Against
 Racism

 Peter Alexander and Graca Mkodzongi, Interview with Munyaradzi Gwisai,
 MDC's Socialist MP

 Darlene Miller, Jambanja - Fast Track Land Reform in Zimbabwe

 David Pottie, Queuing for Democracy

 Molly Dhlamini, The King and Us: Interview with Bongani Masuku, President
 of the Swaziland Youth Congress

 Lenny Gentle, The Blind Leading the Blind - The Australian Accord and
 Neoliberalism in South Africa

 Andile Mngxitama, Book Review of 'Banking on Change', by Helena Dolny

 To subscribe (1 year, 4 issues, airmail for overseas addresses) send your
 cheque to Debate, PO Box 517, Wits 2050, Johannesburg, SOUTH AFRICA, or
 send your subscription fee to the Account DEBATE - Voices from the Left,
 Nedbank, Jorissen Street, Braamfontein 2017, Johannesburg, SOUTH AFRICA,
 Account No. 1965-371418, SORT Code: 19500502, SWIFT Address: NEDSZAJJ.

 Subsciption fees:

 South Africa: Individual R42.00; Institutions: R100.00; Supporter:
R100.00;
 Student (Copy of ID Required): R36.00;
 Rest of the World:
 Individual: 30 USD (or 20 GBP); Institutions: USD 60.00 (or GBP 40.00);
 Supporter: USD 50.00 (or GBP 34.00).

***

On the US East Coast in late November, early December?
Check out Ben Cashdan's latest doccie...

 You just don't know how lucky you are that black
 people can still tolerate living in shacks and
 go and work for white people in beautiful homes,
 and not kill those white people.
 ARCHBISHOP DESMOND TUTU, JULY 2001

 At the Durban anti-racism conference, 20 000 people
 marched for reparations and against globalisation.
 Then five days before the Sept 11 attack the US
 government walked out of Durban.

 This new film from South Africa asks why so many
 in Africa blame northern governments and corporations
 for their poverty. Includes exclusive interviews with
 Tutu, Mandela, Soros, Mbeki and others.

 Screenings are FREE and presented interactively by the
 filmmaker!

 Wed 28 Nov -  NEW YORK, NY - New School
   8:00pm, Swayduck Auditorium, 65 Fifth Ave
   Contact Timo Lyrra: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   212-229-5580

 Thur 29 Nov - NORTHAMPTON, MA - Smith College
   7:30pm,  Neilson Library Browsing Room
 Contact Tandeka Nkiwane ([EMAIL PROTECTED])

 Fri 30 Nov -  WORCESTER - Clark
   Contact Laila Smith: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Sat 1 Dec -   BOSTON - MA Coll of Art
   2pm, 621 Huntington Avenue
   Longwood Stop on Green E Line
   Contact Rajiv Rawat: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Mon 3 Dec -   BALTIMORE - Johns Hopkins
   7.30pm, AMR1 Multipurpose Room
   Johns Hopkins University, Homewood Campus
   3400 No. Charles St.
   Contact Chris powers: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Tue 4 Dec -   WASHINGTON DC
   To be finalised
   Contact Carole Collins: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 -

 South Africa is in the hands of Global Capital.
 That's why it can't meet the legitimate aspirations
 of its people
 GEORGE SOROS, FINANCIER

 We can't wait 40 years like the holocaust
 victims. We want reparations now!
 ARCHBISHOP OF CAPE TOWN NJONGO NDUNGANE

 The gentlemen in Davos are in the minority in the
 world today. The future lies here in Porto Alegre.
 TREVOR NGWANE, SOWETO ACTIVIST

 The film includes an inside view of the racism conference
 in Durban, the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland
 and the World Social Forum in Porto Alegre, Brazil.

***

It's not enough to bring Soweto to Rosedale

By NAOMI KLEIN
Globe and Mail, Toronto

Wednesday, November 21, 2001 – Print Edition, Page A21

On Saturday night, I found myself at a party honouring Nelson Mandela and
raising money for his children's fund. It was a lovely affair and only a
very rude person would have pointed out that the party was packed with many
of the banking and 

Studies in Political Economy

2001-11-25 Thread michael perelman

Mike Lebowitz asked me to remind the list about the journal.

OUR CURRENT ISSUE

SPE 66, Autumn 2001

·   M. Little/Impact of Ontario Welfare Changes on Single Mothers 
·   W. McKeen/ Feminism and the National Social Policy Debate, the 1970s
and Early 1980s
·   C. Mooers/ Citizenship and Finance Capital
·   Forum: The Quebec Summit
H. Friedmann/ The World Social Forum and the People's Summit at Quebec
City.
M. Lee/ The FTAA after Quebec
J. Grundy and A. Howell/  Negotiating the Culture of Resistance:
Assessing Protest Politics
Macdonald Stainsby   A Real Movement is Here
·   Document: The New Politics Initiative
·   Tribute to Jack Scott






Subscription Information

One Year(3 issues):   ___ C$75 (Institutions) ___ C$40.(Individual); 
___ C$20.(Student/Unemployed)
Two Years(6 issues): ___ C$120 (Institutions) ___ C$60(Individual);  
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Free back issue(s) requested:  _ 

Subscribers outside Canada, please remit full amount in $US
  

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Send with payment to:SPE. SR. 303
  Carleton University
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ON. Canada   K1S 5B6

 

Contents of Recent Issues

Number 65, Summer 2001
·   Chris Howell, The End of the Relationship Between Social Democratic
Parties and Trade Unions?, pp. 7-37. 
·   Andrew Jackson, Can There Be a Second Way in the Third
Millennium?, pp. 39-64. 
·   Russell Janzen, Jerry White and Carla Lipsig-Mumméé, Junked Mail: The
Politics and Consequences of Privatization, pp. 65-89. 
·   Sarah Riegel, The Home Schooling Movement and the Struggle for
Democratic Education, pp. 91-116. 
·   Ian Angus, Subsistence as Social Right: A Political Ideal for
Socialism?, pp. 117-135.


Number 64, Spring 2001
·   Martin Morris, Contradictions of Post-modern Consumerism and
Resistance, pp. 7-32. 
·   Ellen Wall and Barbara Beardwood, Standardizing Globally, Responding
Locally: The New Infrastructure, ISO 14000, and Canadian Agriculture,
pp. 33-57. 
·   Sharon Dale Stone, Lesbians, Gays and the Press: Covering Lesbian and
Gay Pride Day in Kelowna, 1996, pp. 59-81. 
·   Gerard Greenfield, The Success of Being Dangerous: Resisting Free
Trade and Investment Regimes, pp. 83-90. 
·   Sam Gindin, Rebuilding the Left: Towards a Structured Anti-Capitalist
Movement, pp. 91-97. 


Number 63, Fall 2000 Contesting Neo-Liberalism

·   Wendy Larner, Neo-liberalism: Policy, Ideology, Governmentality, pp.
5-26. 
·   Rianne Mahon, Swedish Social Democracy: Death of a Model?, pp.
27-60. 
·   Robert Hackett, Taking Back the Media: Notes on the Potential for a
Communicative Democracy Movement, pp. 61-86. 
·   Barbara Jenkins and Rob Aitken, Jumping Borders with Pleasure:
Chicano Resistance to Neo-liberalism, pp. 87-110 
·   Erin Steuter and Geoff Martin, The Myth of the Competitive Challenge:
The Irving Oil Refinery Strike, 1994-96 and the Canadian Petroleum
Industry, pp. 111-132. 


-- 

Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929
 
Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]




RE: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Doug tells thetruth..........................

2001-11-25 Thread Max Sawicky

. . . It makes left politics look more 
like a species of psychopathology rather than an honorable, even 
heroic intellectual tradition. It's so tempting to say to hell with 
it all.Doug

[back from visiting the in-laws . . . ]

There's where you're wrong.  This list is not 'left politics.'
It's a group of leftists who permit conversation to be
dominated by a very small number of singular personalities
with unique political views -- most of whom are not economists,
god love 'em all.

Michael tries valiantly to steer the discussion to economics,
but huge political events always get in the way.  Which should
surprise nobody.  If you want an economics list, you have to
just purge everything that doesn't fit.  Once you open the door
to politics, you get what we have (which is o.k. w/me).
I love it when the way-out left drives people to the
close-in left.  I'll be inducting DH into the ADA any
time now (dues only $50/year).

Now let us all bow our heads in a moment of silence over
the impending demise of several thousand fascist,
anti-semitic, misogynist terrorists.  (One suspects
they are not down with the GBLTGTS thing either.)
Oh woe!  They won't get fair trials.
They won't get public defenders.
They won't get three meals a day.
They won't get cable tv.
They will receive much as they have given.

cheers,
mbs




Re: RE: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Doug tellsthetruth..........................

2001-11-25 Thread Justin Schwartz


Now let us all bow our heads in a moment of silence over
the impending demise of several thousand fascist,
anti-semitic, misogynist terrorists.  (One suspects
they are not down with the GBLTGTS thing either.)
Oh woe!  They won't get fair trials.
They won't get public defenders.
They won't get three meals a day.
They won't get cable tv.
They will receive much as they have given.

Max, this is genuinely vile. The people who require due process are first of 
all the shits and scumbags. The principle that no person shall be deprived 
of life or liberty without due process of law doesn't make an exception for 
the bad guys. I am astounded that I have to explain this to you. There are 
several reasons for this. In the first place, without due process, we have 
no assurance that we are getting the guilty and not the innocent. Most, 
perhaps all, of the Taliban and maybe many al-Quaida members, despicable as 
their politics may be, had nothing more to do with 9/11 than you did. Does 
that matter in your equation, or is it enough for you that they are 
antisemites and misogynists? In which case there are a lot of people who can 
be rounded up and railroaded, but we sort have to abandon the First 
Amendment.

In the second place, you're next. Do you think that if the principle of 
abandoning due process when the targets are bad guys is accepted that it 
will stop with foreign members of organizations that the US has designated 
terrorist?

I don't know what has got into you. This is the ABC of liberal democracy. 
These are hard won victories that cost the blood of many tens of thousands 
or more. And you are gloating about throwing them away and handing the axe 
to people for whom the difference between you and al-Qaida is insignificant. 
Why have you gone stupid and contemptible just at this moment when we need 
every person we can find standing behind civil liberties? Please come back, 
we miss the old Max!

jks

_
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp




Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Doug tells thetruth..........................

2001-11-25 Thread Michael Perelman

I did not read Max's comments about the lack of civil liberties at first.
I have to agree with Justin.  I find the war disgusting.  I don't think
that the bombing of Sudan or the sanctions on Iraq have any more claim to
morality than the attack on the World Trade Center.



On Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 05:54:55AM +, Justin Schwartz wrote:
 
 Now let us all bow our heads in a moment of silence over
 the impending demise of several thousand fascist,
 anti-semitic, misogynist terrorists.  (One suspects
 they are not down with the GBLTGTS thing either.)
 Oh woe!  They won't get fair trials.
 They won't get public defenders.
 They won't get three meals a day.
 They won't get cable tv.
 They will receive much as they have given.
 
 Max, this is genuinely vile. The people who require due process are first of 
 all the shits and scumbags. The principle that no person shall be deprived 
 of life or liberty without due process of law doesn't make an exception for 
 the bad guys. I am astounded that I have to explain this to you. There are 
 several reasons for this. In the first place, without due process, we have 
 no assurance that we are getting the guilty and not the innocent. Most, 
 perhaps all, of the Taliban and maybe many al-Quaida members, despicable as 
 their politics may be, had nothing more to do with 9/11 than you did. Does 
 that matter in your equation, or is it enough for you that they are 
 antisemites and misogynists? In which case there are a lot of people who can 
 be rounded up and railroaded, but we sort have to abandon the First 
 Amendment.
 
 In the second place, you're next. Do you think that if the principle of 
 abandoning due process when the targets are bad guys is accepted that it 
 will stop with foreign members of organizations that the US has designated 
 terrorist?
 
 I don't know what has got into you. This is the ABC of liberal democracy. 
 These are hard won victories that cost the blood of many tens of thousands 
 or more. And you are gloating about throwing them away and handing the axe 
 to people for whom the difference between you and al-Qaida is insignificant. 
 Why have you gone stupid and contemptible just at this moment when we need 
 every person we can find standing behind civil liberties? Please come back, 
 we miss the old Max!
 
 jks
 
 _
 Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
 

-- 
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929

Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]




Re: Re: econometric model

2001-11-25 Thread ALI KADRI

just a note about common specification: long term
investment is policy determined, eg tax policy. 
there has to be parsimony not too many independent
variables.
past changes in output are necessary.
the fed rate is the policy variable par excellence.
 
 
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Mat,
 
 Re student econometric model.
 
 Random considerations that might be relevant:
 1) Nominal or real variables (e.g., real interest
 rate, real investment, etc)? 
 Any theoretical reason for preferring one over the
 other? 
 2) Levels versus changes? which variables should be
 in levels and which in 
 changes? Econometric problems with using levels are
 well-known as it might lead 
 to spurious correlation.
 3) Lags? Which variables, how long, what lag
 formulation?
 4) any reason for interactive terms (e.g., interest
 rate x corporate profits)?
 5) if CP is for corporate profit should I also be
 for corporate sector?
 6) form of equation: if elasticities are desired are
 logs of variables needed? 
 7) any measure for expectations?
 
 Eric
 


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1




Re: Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: Re: Re:

2001-11-25 Thread Chris Burford

While Max is correct that sectarianism ends up excluding itself from 
communications, and while it is true that the moderate arguably comprador 
muslim states have not been destabilised once the war started, statements 
like his to which Justin objected represent a gut response from citizens of 
the USA. As policy such statements will be very counterproductive even from 
the point of view of US hegemonism, and still more from the point of view 
of the emerging Empire.

Supposing as seems very possible bin Laden together with a special force of 
2000 Al Qaida fighters, is killed along with 1900 of them. 100 slip 
away,  of whom 20 

It would have been far better to go through due process, or create it 
globally, and negotiate with the Taliban government for the handing over of 
bin Laden to an international court, through intermediaries.

In terms of the political economy of a list Max has a point. Stalin's 
policy of directing the main blow against middle elements has only to be 
implemented by a few to damage seriously the atmosphere of a list. 
Unfortunately the authority for this policy derives from Lenin (Stalin 
quotes On the Struggle with the Italian Socialist Party November 1920) 
and clearly was a current of thinking in the whole of the Bolshevik 
movement. Although that 3rd International tradition particularly after the 
7th Congress came to accommodate with trade unionism and the left in 
general, those who look back to Lenin as a source of inspiration today, 
repeatedly throw up reversions to this style of polemic, which is all too 
easily reproduced on the internet.

Despite his strength of feeling Justin is careful to say that Max's remarks 
are vile, not that Max is vile. But it is a small step that some might not 
be too careful about taking in their mind. And I am afraid on other lists 
it might be said in a sectarian fashion that this list harbours someone 
with Max's views. Max's remarks have validity about the reality of the 
actual balance of forces in terms of how the current events will be seen 
through the capitalist owned media by billions of people.

If Max or anyone else is wrong, people will become best convinced of this 
if the main blow is not directed against him, or against any other 
individual, such as the person whose name I have deleted from the thread 
title. As I think Justin does.

Chris Burford





At 25/11/01 22:21 -0800, you wrote:
I did not read Max's comments about the lack of civil liberties at first.
I have to agree with Justin.  I find the war disgusting.  I don't think
that the bombing of Sudan or the sanctions on Iraq have any more claim to
morality than the attack on the World Trade Center.



On Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 05:54:55AM +, Justin Schwartz wrote:
  
  Now let us all bow our heads in a moment of silence over
  the impending demise of several thousand fascist,
  anti-semitic, misogynist terrorists.  (One suspects
  they are not down with the GBLTGTS thing either.)
  Oh woe!  They won't get fair trials.
  They won't get public defenders.
  They won't get three meals a day.
  They won't get cable tv.
  They will receive much as they have given.
 
  Max, this is genuinely vile. The people who require due process are 
 first of
  all the shits and scumbags. The principle that no person shall be deprived
  of life or liberty without due process of law doesn't make an exception 
 for
  the bad guys. I am astounded that I have to explain this to you. There are
  several reasons for this. In the first place, without due process, we have
  no assurance that we are getting the guilty and not the innocent. Most,
  perhaps all, of the Taliban and maybe many al-Quaida members, 
 despicable as
  their politics may be, had nothing more to do with 9/11 than you did. Does
  that matter in your equation, or is it enough for you that they are
  antisemites and misogynists? In which case there are a lot of people 
 who can
  be rounded up and railroaded, but we sort have to abandon the First
  Amendment.
 
  In the second place, you're next. Do you think that if the principle of
  abandoning due process when the targets are bad guys is accepted that it
  will stop with foreign members of organizations that the US has designated
  terrorist?
 
  I don't know what has got into you. This is the ABC of liberal democracy.
  These are hard won victories that cost the blood of many tens of thousands
  or more. And you are gloating about throwing them away and handing the axe
  to people for whom the difference between you and al-Qaida is 
 insignificant.
  Why have you gone stupid and contemptible just at this moment when we need
  every person we can find standing behind civil liberties? Please come 
 back,
  we miss the old Max!
 
  jks
 
  _
  Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
 

--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, 

[Fwd: [BRC-ANN] POEM: Wanted Dead or Alive]

2001-11-25 Thread Carrol Cox



 Original Message 
Subject: [BRC-ANN] POEM: Wanted Dead or Alive
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 07:52:26 -0500 (EST)
From: Art McGee [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://rabble.ca/everyones_a_critic.shtml?x=3234

Rabble (Canada)

October 26, 2001

Wanted Dead or Alive

By Tara Atluri [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Wanted dead or alive
Wanted dead or alive

When the right bodies bleed red
it's red alert on brown skin
funny head dresses and last names
Didn't have a problem tagging along on the mehndi
meditation bandwagon
But when more than overpriced incense is burning
you want to know why the hell we ever came.

Let's grieve for the America we used to know
Even though for some of us
burning buildings
police presence
and everyday living
have started to look the same
Even though some of us
have been used for target practice since we came.

And the woman at the store
in the shopping mall
Malled by racks of discount boutique fashion
laced with traces of an immigrants blood
says Let's grieve for the America we used to know.

All dreams
and dollars
and safety
and peace
Pieces of apple pie
that never got divvied up to aunties and sisters
getting paid by the piece
When brown hands bleed red
it seems to get blacked out in the local press release.

When their veins popped and backs cracked
like a World Trade tower
it never made no primetime TV hour.

When bombs were going off
in heads of brown-skinned people
told to explode language and custom and myth
'cause it was dirty and backward
and might get you deported.

No one said Americans under attack
They said
You can't stand the heat in the slave-wage kitchen
get your
gun smuggling,
terrorist ass back
where you came from.

To whatever country you're from that
don't respect human rights
Although I see more lefts than rights
Leftover jobs you say we're stealing
Leftover healthcare that leave our people bleeding
Leftover stereotype from Hollywood blockbuster hit
where a man in a turban threatens what's left
of Harrison Ford's machismo
Whoops there goes the last of it.

Now that the cameo's over he's hung out to dry
'cause you know there ain't gonna be no brown folks on TV
unless there's a bomb or yoga studio nearby.

And the television
newspaper
radio station
print front page clip of nondescript
illegal paki immigrant
to make white America feel enraged and appeased
'cause they all seem to agree
that this is a sign that it's time to sweep the streets
of those that just can't seem to understand
that America was built on creeds and mottos
and master-race plans.

That we should all observe five minutes of silence
at major retails chains
where brown bodies have laid down their lives
so white backs can get clothed for cheap
Blisters on fingers and extra mild curry
so white tummies can always eat.

Men in turbans
women in hijab
beaten down
detained
asked to
spell out holy names.

Make you believe murder is an import
just like dishes that are too spicy
you can send it back from where it came.

Well I have a news flash for you
We can't grieve for America as it used to be
as it once was
safe from murder and mayhem
before ill shit was imported
The illest murders on this soil are still celebrated
in turkey dinners
now replaced by Chinese food orders.

America was built on mass genocide
for which it has never apologized
Unlimited justice for the nation
but let's just forget that little matter of slavery
They'll repair every scabbed white knee
before there's an ounce of reparation.

Eloquent speeches about the value of lives
but when it comes to freezing starving poor
when it came to Rwanda
then we ain't so sure.

So don't give me this
Land of peace and hope tarnished
by an Asian invasion
bullshit
When America is a nation of minefields and graves
Of civilian targets never once missed.

No one counts causalities of everyday war
That doesn't make your globe or your star
No tribute CD
for the causalities of Caucasian normalcy.

Where is the headline saying
America Attacks?
Attacks decency
dignity
with every
back cracked
blood pact
welfare cheque held back
sacred forest hacked.

It's not that I don't feel for
people who died
It's not that I don't feel for people's fears
But I just want y'all to remember that
while some bombs can detonate quickly
the lady liberty I know has been burning crosses for years.

--

Tara Atluri facilitates the Women of Colour group at
the University of Toronto's Women's Centre and acts as
co-coordinator of the centre. Her rants -- called spoken
word -- are a feature of Radio O.P.I.R.G. on CIUT 89.5. She
presented the above spoken-word piece at Media Democracy Day
in Toronto.

Copyright (c) 2001 Tara Atluri. All Rights Reserved.


[IMPORTANT NOTE: The views and opinions expressed on this
list are solely those of the authors and/or organizations,
and do not necessarily represent or reflect the official
political positions of the Black Radical Congress (BRC).
Official BRC statements, position papers, press releases,
action