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WIDTH=3D580 HEIGHT=3D1><BR> <P> <NOBR> <IMG SRC=3D"http://www.pathfinder.com/boards/webx_images/big_arrow.gif" A= LT=3D'*' BORDER=3D0 WIDTH=3D19 HEIGHT=3D13> <FONT FACE=3D"helvetica,arial"><A HREF=3D"../cgi-bin/webx?14@^1218534@"= >Pathfinder Board Guide</A> <IMG SRC=3D"http://www.pathfinder.com/boards/webx_images/sma= ll_arrow.gif" ALIGN=3D"BOTTOM" ALT=3D'/' BORDER=3D0 WIDTH=3D12 HEIGHT=3D1= 0> <A HREF=3D"../cgi-bin/webx?14@^1218534@.ee6b6e7">FORTUNE's Boards</A>= <IMG SRC=3D"http://www.pathfinder.com/boards/webx_images= /small_arrow.gif" ALIGN=3D"BOTTOM" ALT=3D'/' BORDER=3D0 WIDTH=3D12 HEIGHT= =3D10> <A HREF=3D"../cgi-bin/webx?14@^1218534@.ee7f8d2">FORTUNE'S The Econ= omy and Politics</A> </FONT> </NOBR><BR> <TABLE BORDER=3D"0" CELLPADDING=3D"0" CELLSPACING=3D"0" WIDTH=3D"580"> <TR> <TD COLSPAN=3D2 HEIGHT=3D20> </TD> </TR> <TR> <TD WIDTH=3D580 ALIGN=3DLEFT VALIGN=3DTOP COLSPAN=3D2> <FONT FACE=3D"helvetica,arial" SIZE=3D"5">Topic: World Bank IMF Policy De= vastates Africa</FONT><BR> <FONT FACE=3D"helvetica,arial"> <STRONG> Dave Chiang - </STRONG>created 04:40pm Jan 28, 1998 EST</FONT> </TD> </TR> <TR> <TD WIDTH=3D430 ALIGN=3DLEFT VALIGN=3DTOP> <HR NOSHADE> <!-- Display topic body --> <FONT FACE=3D"helvetica,arial"> <FONT FACE=3D"helvetica,arial">Of the world's 20 poorest countries, 16 = are in Africa. The debt for 52 sub-Saharan African countries recently rea= ched $235 billion, mostly to the International Monetary Fund, the World B= ank, and foreign banks. Meanwhile, old roads have crumbled, new ones need= to be built, railroads are limited and the energy sector is insufficient= to sustain a relatively high economic growth in Africa. = <p>Preserving the economic -- and political -- stability is not possible = without debt relief from the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund = and private lenders. Since it remains highly unlikely that Africa can ser= vice the $235 billion in foreign debt, why does the IMF insist on the str= ict repayment of debt to foreign banks while Africa slides further into t= he economic abyss?</FONT> </FONT> <HR NOSHADE> </TD> <TD WIDTH=3D150 ALIGN=3DRIGHT VALIGN=3DTOP> = <a href=3D"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"><img src=3D"http://w= ww.pathfinder.com/boards/webx_images/button_feedback.gif" border=3D0 alt= =3D"Feedback To Host" WIDTH=3D109 HEIGHT=3D22></a><br> = = <a href=3D"http://www.pathfinder.com/fortune"><IMG SRC=3D"http://www.= pathfinder.com/boards/webx_images/returnto_fortune.gif" BORDER=3D0 ALT=3D= "Return to Fortune" WIDTH=3D109></A><BR> = = = = </TD> </TR> </TABLE> <!-- restore original path --> <FONT FACE=3D"helvetica,arial"> <a href=3D"/cgi-bin/webx?14@^1218534@.ee872c9/0"><img hspace=3D0 align=3D= top alt=3D"Earliest Messages" border=3D0 src=3D"http://www.pathfinder.com= /boards/webx_images/smtotop.gif" WIDTH=3D68 HEIGHT=3D15></a><a href=3D"/c= gi-bin/webx?7@^1218534@.ee872c9/7"><img hspace=3D0 align=3Dtop alt=3D"Pre= vious Messages" border=3D0 src=3D"http://www.pathfinder.com/boards/webx_i= mages/smprev.gif" WIDTH=3D68 HEIGHT=3D15></a><a href=3D"/cgi-bin/webx?14@= ^1218534@.ee872c9"><img hspace=3D0 align=3Dtop alt=3D"Recent Messages" bo= rder=3D0 src=3D"http://www.pathfinder.com/boards/webx_images/smrecent.gif= " WIDTH=3D68 HEIGHT=3D15></a> (8 previous messages)<hr width=3D200 align= =3Dleft></FONT> <FONT FACE=3D"helvetica,arial"> <STRONG> arkirkham</STRONG> - 07:59pm Apr 12, 1998 EST (#<a hre= f=3D"../cgi-bin/webx?14@^1218534@.ee872c9/8">9</a> of 15) <p> The deal in Korea was put workers out of work or no soap. So what happen= s to those workers? How has the "reform" helped them? If they were not = to blame, they are being punished for the benefit of those who abused the= m in the first place. = <p>As for the statement: = <p><blockquote><tt>The IMF has gone through scores of these packages, oft= en, though not always, successfully. It has not brought on a Marxist revo= lution anywhere as a result. (Ken Stammerman) = </blockquote></tt>Usually abuses of civil rights do not result in Marxist= revolutions. That is obvious. That is because as long as the sector be= ing abused is not of critical mass, it will not have the power to do anyt= hing but take it. That doesn't mean it is right. That doesn't mean the = IMF policies are "working." It just means the culprits won't be paying t= his time.<br> </FONT> <hr width=3D200 align=3Dleft><FONT FACE=3D"helvetica,arial"> <STRONG> Dave Chiang</STRONG> - 03:57pm Apr 24, 1998 EST (#<a h= ref=3D"../cgi-bin/webx?14@^1218534@.ee872c9/9">10</a> of 15) <p> What Critics are saying about IMF policies. = <p>Rep. Bernard Sanders - Before Congress approved any more funds for the= IMF, it must decide whether ``the IMF is simply a front group for giant = banks, global corporations and wealthy investors.'' = <p>Rep. Spencer Bachus - ``The IMF should not be permitted to operate lik= e a private club with public money. The House should seek much more strin= gent requirements before approving any more IMF funds" = <p>Ralph Nader - "The economic reforms were designed to protect investors= at the expense of poor people in the countries receiving the loans. The = IMF runs roughshod over borrower countries in the Third World, making a m= ockery of attempts to democratically determine macroeconomic policy in th= ose nations,''<br> </FONT> <hr width=3D200 align=3Dleft><FONT FACE=3D"helvetica,arial"> <STRONG> arkirkham</STRONG> - 10:19pm Apr 24, 1998 EST (#<a hre= f=3D"../cgi-bin/webx?14@^1218534@.ee872c9/10">11</a> of 15) <p> I responded to this thread after hearing from only IMF officials on PBS. = It pleases me no end to see that I can come to the same conclusions as R= alph Nader. = <p>I didn't take notes but when the question of creation of unemployment = in Korea was raised by an interviewer, the IMF guy said something to the = effect that these are serious problems, there has to be austerity measure= s or the problem will just get worse. = <p>Worse for who? Ask Ralph.<br> </FONT> <hr width=3D200 align=3Dleft><FONT FACE=3D"helvetica,arial"> <STRONG> Meredith Poor</STRONG> - 06:19am Apr 25, 1998 EST (#<a= href=3D"../cgi-bin/webx?14@^1218534@.ee872c9/11">12</a> of 15) <p> If you are driving down the freeway, and decide to close your eyes and ke= ep going until you hit something, you have some idea of how myopic most l= aborers are, and for that matter, how myopic a lot of business executives= are, particularly in foriegn countries. = <p>Nader, et. al. focus on how people are treated rather than on how asse= ts are treated. While this sounds like a good thing, it ignores the fact= that people have a tendency to misallocate assets to protect people (eit= her themselves, their family, or their workforce). In other words, all t= he things Nader is complaining that are happening now are the result of p= eople attemping for years to do what he suggests they should do now. Had= business in Korea and elsewhere reallocated their capital toward more ec= onomically viable activities over the last ten or twenty years, there wou= ldn't be this problem now. = <p>Nader's whining is indefensible.<br> </FONT> <hr width=3D200 align=3Dleft><FONT FACE=3D"helvetica,arial"> <STRONG> arkirkham</STRONG> - 01:26am Apr 26, 1998 EST (#<a hre= f=3D"../cgi-bin/webx?14@^1218534@.ee872c9/12">13</a> of 15) <p> Meredith Poor: = <p>Your focus is on "assets." My and Ralph's is on how people are treate= d. Life is not entirely a matter of "assets" (taken in this context to b= e the accumulation of monetary wealth). It is a mathematical certainty t= hat if nobody gave any money to the poor and/or inept members of society,= those who survived would be richer and have more "assets." But life is = about living a good and a moral existence. = <p>You may thing perhaps that a pile of money can somehow imbue one with = morals...think again. = <p>We are a paradox of a nation. So many Americans scream about how impo= rtant it is that they be independent and have INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS. Cannot = a foreign country have the right to govern itself? Must we not allow it t= o protect its citizens from economic exploitation? Must every place on e= arth "manage its assets" according to the IMF? = <p>These governments all exist at the pleasure possibly of the American I= nvestment Community or corporate America. They do not serve the people t= o begin with. Of course they will flog their working class to please the= source of their money and power. = <p>The U. S. does not want to see dissention in any of its satellite worl= d. Civil unrest slows the production of things...hence the increase of t= he wealth of those sponsoring the production. Production in many of thes= e locations is completely alien to the culture of the people in a histori= c sense and completely alien to their interests...it just that there's no= thing else there for them. Guess somebody "managed" the assets pretty go= od.<br> </FONT> <hr width=3D200 align=3Dleft><FONT FACE=3D"helvetica,arial"> <STRONG> Meredith Poor</STRONG> - 02:52pm Apr 26, 1998 EST (#<a= href=3D"../cgi-bin/webx?14@^1218534@.ee872c9/13">14</a> of 15) <p> In other words, it's a conspiracy.... = <p>The U.S. is not a person, it's a country. A country with 266 million = people in it, each with their own agenda. There are some Americans who w= ould prefer that various foreign countries not bother us. However, I don= 't think most Americans have a clue one way or another. = <p>South Koreans, for whatever reason, opted to play in the global econom= y, and have done a very respectable job of it. North Korea, Myranmar (Bu= rma), and Viet Nam (at least for awhile) went their own way and snubbed t= he global community. Since the South Koreans wanted the prosperity and s= tatus that comes with being a global economic player, they get the downsi= de that comes with it. That downside means making some adjustments to th= eir habits, traditions, and culture. = <p>The United States was, up to the late 1970's, convinced workers could = have lifetime jobs, retirement pensions, and career paths within one comp= any. However, certain other countries valued those things even more, and= produced competitive goods to the point where our businesses couldn't st= ay in business. Thus we made some huge cultural shifts because "they" fo= rced us to. = <p>We became not only competitive, but supercompetitive. We created new = industries and ran old ones out of existence. Some of those older indust= ries had a significant foreign presence (shipbuilding, for instance). Fr= om our natural and prolonged fascination with computers, we created an ec= onomic infrastructure in which mass production, smokestack industries bec= ame anachronisms. = <p>In the meantime, Japan, Germany, France, Korea, Thailand, Maylaysia, I= ndonesia, India, and Russia all decided they wanted to make steel, and ca= rs, and consumer electronics, and sell it to the only economy in the worl= d that consumed very much: North America (the U.S. and Canada). These ar= e fully informed CHOICES these countries made in light of their current p= olitical situation and international business relationships. Now, when i= t turns out the choices were bad, a bunch of people get up and whine abou= t how the U.S. is in a conspiracy to hurt little people. = <p>This is absurd.<br> </FONT> <hr width=3D200 align=3Dleft><FONT FACE=3D"helvetica,arial"> <STRONG> arkirkham</STRONG> - 01:44am Apr 27, 1998 EST (#<a hre= f=3D"../cgi-bin/webx?14@^1218534@.ee872c9/14">15</a> of 15) <p> Meredith Poor: = <p>---But so much of the money seems to fall into the pockets of the alle= ged "spenders." It is true, "America" didn't exploit overseas labor...Am= ericans did. I didn't get anything out of the deal.<br> </FONT> <BR><HR WIDTH=3D500 ALIGN=3D"LEFT" NOSHADE> <FONT FACE=3D"helvetica,arial" SIZE=3D3>Want to post a message? 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