Re: Re: Buck Fush
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote: Maggie says: I think what we need to do is support pro-CHOICE, which is not the same as pro-abortion, though abortion is a very important part of choice. Well, the question is, though, if the "international family planning organizations" have had a measurable impact of expanding women's choices in poor nations. I don't think Kerala has a lower birth rate than the rest of India because the former has more "international family planning organizations" than the latter. Charity never solves any problem, even if it's truly charitable (and it often isn't). I agree that charity is rarely an answer to much of anything, but what does that have to do with choice? I don't see international family planning agencies as the sole representation of choice, I am only saying they should be one of many. Also, I have a feeling that the birthrate in India has far more to do with cultural values than any international agency -- and -- the use of some items we associate with choice here in the USA are used to gender births along acceptable lines in India -- i.e., sonograms are used to determine the sex of the child and abort girl fetuses. But in my mind, that ain't choice. Finally, I am not sure what you are disagreeing with in what I am saying -- the issue should be choice, not one aspect of choice such as abortion, or birth control, etc. maggie coleman
Re: Re: Buck Fush
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 21:17:05 -0500 From: Yoshie Furuhashi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yes, family planning is important. The question is who runs family planning programs. I don't like the idea of "international family planning organizations" running them. I'd rather see Indian women's movement or Indian leftist movement (like the CP) running them. The same goes for women of any other poor nation. Right on. I have in Zimbabwe, many times, witnessed the ludicrous, outrageous sight of US AID flunkees (with local hires, at about $2/day) wandering out to rural (peasant) areas to push family planning in isolated villages as a discrete, once-off primary healthcare intervention. Meanwhile other US AID flunkees were pushing structural adjustment in Zim, whose effects on the health budget were devastating. So utilisation rates in once-vibrant rural clinics fell dramatically as central budgets declined and futile cost-recovery began. As a result, visits by those well-resourced int'l NGOs--driven by Malthusian conviction--were the only healthcare interventions experienced by most villagers. But because it was funded by US AID, the family planning cadres never did anything to promote PHC and instead just carried on with their once-off, disconnected interventions, effectively setting up a parallel system while the state withered away. (Unfortunately, the ban on abortion advocacy won't change matters, as it also existed under the Reagan Administration, when this problem became noticeable.) The new line from more advanced progressive technical folk based in Harare, indeed, is to cancel debt and also cancel aid. I bet it'll catch on as a general line of (Jubilee 2000-type) argumentation...
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Michael, Yes, Kerala does a very good job of educating its young girls. There is a new quite good book about Kerala called, _Kerala: The Development Experience_ edited by Govind Payatal, London: Zed Books, 2000. The big negative, as has been noted on this list before, is that Kerala has had quite slow per capita GDP growth leading to a lot of outmigration. The state is now the recipient of considerable inflows of income from its well-educated populace working abroad. Barkley Rosser -Original Message- From: Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:55 PM Subject: [PEN-L:7497] Re: Re: Buck Fush Doesn't kerala do a better job of educating young girls? Isn't that very important? But then, I have read about family planning being important for empowering women vis a vis their husbands. On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 08:49:44PM -0500, Yoshie Furuhashi wrote: Maggie says: I think what we need to do is support pro-CHOICE, which is not the same as pro-abortion, though abortion is a very important part of choice. Well, the question is, though, if the "international family planning organizations" have had a measurable impact of expanding women's choices in poor nations. I don't think Kerala has a lower birth rate than the rest of India because the former has more "international family planning organizations" than the latter. Charity never solves any problem, even if it's truly charitable (and it often isn't). Yoshie -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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I might add that a good proportion of Malaylis who work abroad are not highly educated, especially many Muslims from Kerala working in the Middle East. OTOH Malaylis are on the average better educated than most other Indian ethnic groups. One could hypothesize that the low growth in Kerala has been precisely due to those political forces (the CPM and the general left politics) that promoted a more a egalitarian development. But also note the lack of direct British rule in the region and the matrilineal society that is part of the southern region as important historical factors, in addition to the not so great agriculture (limited land with the beautiful western ghats (banks), tropical forests, and a long coastline. Cheers, Anthony Anthony P. D'Costa Associate Professor Ph: (253) 692-4462 Comparative International Development Fax: (253) 692-5718 University of WashingtonBox Number: 358436 1900 Commerce Street Tacoma, WA 98402, USA xxx On Tue, 30 Jan 2001, J. Barkley Rosser, Jr. wrote: Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:59:23 -0500 From: "J. Barkley Rosser, Jr." [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEN-L:7533] Re: Re: Re: Buck Fush Michael, Yes, Kerala does a very good job of educating its young girls. There is a new quite good book about Kerala called, _Kerala: The Development Experience_ edited by Govind Payatal, London: Zed Books, 2000. The big negative, as has been noted on this list before, is that Kerala has had quite slow per capita GDP growth leading to a lot of outmigration. The state is now the recipient of considerable inflows of income from its well-educated populace working abroad. Barkley Rosser -Original Message- From: Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:55 PM Subject: [PEN-L:7497] Re: Re: Buck Fush Doesn't kerala do a better job of educating young girls? Isn't that very important? But then, I have read about family planning being important for empowering women vis a vis their husbands. On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 08:49:44PM -0500, Yoshie Furuhashi wrote: Maggie says: I think what we need to do is support pro-CHOICE, which is not the same as pro-abortion, though abortion is a very important part of choice. Well, the question is, though, if the "international family planning organizations" have had a measurable impact of expanding women's choices in poor nations. I don't think Kerala has a lower birth rate than the rest of India because the former has more "international family planning organizations" than the latter. Charity never solves any problem, even if it's truly charitable (and it often isn't). Yoshie -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Buck Fush
Maggie says: I think what we need to do is support pro-CHOICE, which is not the same as pro-abortion, though abortion is a very important part of choice. Well, the question is, though, if the "international family planning organizations" have had a measurable impact of expanding women's choices in poor nations. I don't think Kerala has a lower birth rate than the rest of India because the former has more "international family planning organizations" than the latter. Charity never solves any problem, even if it's truly charitable (and it often isn't). Yoshie
Re: Re: Buck Fush
Doesn't kerala do a better job of educating young girls? Isn't that very important? But then, I have read about family planning being important for empowering women vis a vis their husbands. On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 08:49:44PM -0500, Yoshie Furuhashi wrote: Maggie says: I think what we need to do is support pro-CHOICE, which is not the same as pro-abortion, though abortion is a very important part of choice. Well, the question is, though, if the "international family planning organizations" have had a measurable impact of expanding women's choices in poor nations. I don't think Kerala has a lower birth rate than the rest of India because the former has more "international family planning organizations" than the latter. Charity never solves any problem, even if it's truly charitable (and it often isn't). Yoshie -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Buck Fush
Michael Perelman says: Doesn't kerala do a better job of educating young girls? Isn't that very important? Yes, Kerala does. And educational equality is even more important than income equality, as far as reproductive choices of women are concerned. But then, I have read about family planning being important for empowering women vis a vis their husbands. Yes, family planning is important. The question is who runs family planning programs. I don't like the idea of "international family planning organizations" running them. I'd rather see Indian women's movement or Indian leftist movement (like the CP) running them. The same goes for women of any other poor nation. There's nothing more empowering than women running programs that help themselves. It's a virtuous circle, which never -- well, seldom ever -- happens with international charity. Yoshie
Re: Buck Fush
As MAx points out, consciousness has a long way to go And, it looks like Bush will do his best to speed up the process. He already started with cutting funding to international groups which have pro-abortion policies. maggie * Goodbye civility: Bush's attack on the poorest women Ellen Goodman Boston Globe Jan 25, 2001 WASHINGTON Well, that didn't take long, did it? The cream-colored rug is barely installed. The Oval Office still smells like fresh paint. The inaugural address is still being praised. But already the uniter has become a divider. Goodbye, civility. On the very first working day of the new Bush administration, George W. reached out...to the right. He sent a garland to the hardy pack of antiabortion marchers mourning the 28th anniversary of Roe v. Wade on the Mall. Maybe Laura Bush takes after prochoice Barbara, but George takes after dad. With his father's portrait beaming over his shoulder, he acted to reinstate a ban on funds for any international family planning organizations that even dare to give women information about abortion. * We need to criticize Bush's anti-abortion policy, but we also have to point out that supporters for "international family planning organizations" include an unsavory bunch of people who are obsessed with "overpopulation." When we compare Kerala the rest of India, it's clear that what's necessary the most is to raise the status of women, reduce social inequality, improve the level of education of the masses in general. Yoshie
Re: Buck Fush
Yoshie wrote: We need to criticize Bush's anti-abortion policy, but we also have to point out that supporters for "international family planning organizations" include an unsavory bunch of people who are obsessed with "overpopulation." When we compare Kerala the rest of India, it's clear that what's necessary the most is to raise the status of women, reduce social inequality, improve the level of education of the masses in general. * It's precisely those groups who take their cue from T. Homer-Dixon's paradigm. No Lakshman Yapa on their reading lists! http://www.ems.psu.edu/People/Yapa.html Ian
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Lisa Ian Murray wrote: It's precisely those groups who take their cue from T. Homer-Dixon's paradigm. No Lakshman Yapa on their reading lists! Ian, this is a bit terse.Which groups? And is T. Homer-Dixon, whoever he is, a good guy or a bad guy? Not very clear. Carrol
Re: Re: Buck Fush
I think what we need to do is support pro-CHOICE, which is not the same as pro-abortion, though abortion is a very important part of choice. The main point being that it is up to the individual woman to choose whether or not to have children -- and make that a real choice which includes ALL the options -- safe and legal abortion, complete access to all kinds of birth control (including several types available in Europe but not here, even though they are produced here), and safe, reliable birthing options, including mid-wives. Within that there are always going to be groups which disagree with each other, and there are certainly groups I disagree with. With Choice though, you can pick and choose the groups you agree with, without choice you can't. Another reason I say pro-CHOICE rather than pro-abortion is that there is a long history in the USA (and of course other countries -- but I am most familiar with the US) of forced sterilization of poor and minority women. In fact, the history of gynecology in this country is more bloody and hair raising than a dozen horror flicks. To this day, courts still order poor and welfare women to get norplant implants. Abortion is one of the options of choice. and attacking abortion is IMHO, just the first step in additional restrictions on women. F'rinstance, the republicans have tried to get riders passed on several bills which would also outlaw IUDs because the IUD allows an egg to be fertilized but does not allow it to be attached to the uterine wall. In many, many ways, without choice, the HANDMAID'S TALE becomes more of a reality. Finally, a piece of historical trivia, in the mid-1800s in the USA it is estimated that 1 in 4 pregnancies ended in abortion. maggie coleman Lisa Ian Murray wrote: Yoshie wrote: We need to criticize Bush's anti-abortion policy, but we also have to point out that supporters for "international family planning organizations" include an unsavory bunch of people who are obsessed with "overpopulation." When we compare Kerala the rest of India, it's clear that what's necessary the most is to raise the status of women, reduce social inequality, improve the level of education of the masses in general. * It's precisely those groups who take their cue from T. Homer-Dixon's paradigm. No Lakshman Yapa on their reading lists! http://www.ems.psu.edu/People/Yapa.html Ian
Re: Buck Fush
As MAx points out, consciousness has a long way to go And, it looks like Bush will do his best to speed up the process. He already started with cutting funding to international groups which have pro-abortion policies. maggie Max Sawicky wrote: I missed the big action at 14th and K. Started at Dupont Circle, which the rain had turned into a bowl of mud. Marched south towards PA ave, uneventfully. At one point a young women started yelling to people to disperse, since there was no permit to march and any gathering of 25 plus was subject to mass arrest. This sounded like good advice at the time so I peeled off and made my own way for a bit. Most people stayed together and nothing happened. The crowd was overwhelmingly 20- and 30-something, here and elsewhere that I saw. Not many sects in evidence. Pretty racially diverse, notwithstanding the principal African- American march led by Rev. Sharpton (well- covered on local news) was elsewhere. Besides the title of this ms., signs said "Fight Bush with bush, I'm Already Sick of Bush, Fuck Bush and the Harris He Rode In On, and my personal favorite, a huge black sign with white letters saying simply, "I Hate You." Those were the creative ones; most said Not My President, Hail to the Thief, or just Democracy (also the most common chants). When we got to the 'secured' area we confronted so-called security checkpoints. People waited on lines several blocks long. It was clear the purpose of these checkpoints was to not let people near the parade route. I hung around near the fence. It was fun watching formal- dressed Republicans trying to get through, to no avail. They were told to wait on line with everyone else. None of them got through, despite their tickets and "I know so-and-so" routines. I even saw the diminutive Ralph Reed get turned away. I'd like to report he had three prostitutes with him, but instead they were three matronly types. Meanwhile I heard that at one checkpoint people had kicked the barriers down and hundreds streamed through to the Avenue. I thought I'd look for other 'checkpoints' with shorter lines so I headed east. Going between a few buildings, I managed to get to the Avenue itself. I could have been wheeling an atom bomb on a handtruck. In effect there was no security -- just futile efforts to keep people off the parade route. Once on PA ave people were jammed together like sardines. Babies crying, then it started to rain pretty good. Across the street, the bleachers, for which you needed a ticket, were sparsely filled. On our side (north), people with tickets couldn't move and get to their seats. Natch, the streets were lined completely with police every two yards. We're standing there, nobody can move in any direction, and the parade has yet to arrive on time. Then this small band dressed something like Sergeant Pepper comes by -- the first thing we've seen -- playing Yankee Doodle Dandy. Slightly surreal. I'm jammed together with a gaggle of Republicans and realize if I don't get where most of the demonstrators are, I'm just another spectator. Most people were in good humor, despite their offense at the weather, the botched schedule, and the demonstrators. Things thin out a bit and I manage to get to Freedom Plaza, at 8th and PA, where there is a good concentration of protestors. Earlier there had been an NOW rally here. It was odd to see people with "Planned Parenthood" signs mixed in with black bloc anarchists and other characters. There are faux-ship masts on the plaza and the anarchists took the flags down and ran up a couple of pathetic looking black and red ones. At one point they burned an american flag. Most of the protestors voiced disapproval but the anarchists ignored them. Later they ran up an unside-down American flag, and a bit later still some cops moved in and drove them off the flagpole. One idiot -- from a very safe distance -- was urging the crowd to fight back. The police were mostly restrained when they went into the crowd a few times. I think they hurt one small girl by jabbing her in the gut with a pugil stick, but she walked away from it. The parade was late but finally the presidential motorcade went by. The crowd whipped itself into a frenzy and gave President Bush a one-finger salute. There were three small contingents from each of the armed services, then nothing. People started to ask, was that it, others began to leave. Somewhat after the parade proper began to come by -- large contingents of armed services, marine band, navy band, a few floats, college and high school bands. When military went by protestors evinced simple anti-soldier feeling, nothing so enlightened as 'get out of Colombia' or anything like that. One person got arrested for throwing a bottle at some helicopters that were wheeled by. By this time (4-4:30) the protest had mostly
Re: Buck Fush
Max writes: Besides the title of this ms., signs said "Fight Bush with bush, I'm Already Sick of Bush, Fuck Bush and the Harris He Rode In On, and my personal favorite, a huge black sign with white letters saying simply, "I Hate You." Those were the creative ones; most said Not My President, Hail to the Thief, or just Democracy (also the most common chants). In Columbus, Ohio, the signs said: "Texacutioner"; "Banana Republicans"; "Florida Gave Us Dumbo"; "Jews for Buchanan, Palm Beach County Branch"; etc. Yoshie
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From a Trot friend. Michael Pugliese Original Message- From: Adam Richmond [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Michael Pugliese [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, January 20, 2001 9:41 PM Subject: The SF Demo I talked with a older dude from the sad little bolshevik tendency. I asked politely if they had any events or activities and was told no. I bought their dreary reprint of some old workers vanguard articles on Kronstadt. Their website is better than this little table. I also visited the Labor's Militant Voice table. I am confused. How can they be in the CWI as well as the SF Frontlines folks. I was too depressed to ask them, but they seemed to have some life and revolution in their veins. It looks like they are involved in the bike messenger union organizing effort. Workers World is clearly the most organized group in San Francisco. Maybe I should just hold my nose and jump in. Not. The demo's lack of actual militancy disturbed me. I think it is like the turning over of Germany to Hitler without a real fight. I feel like a Jew in Berlin in 1933. Our quiet, legal coup has put the son of the CIA director in power. Even my liberal boyfriend was bummed by the lack of numbers and noise at the IAC demo. He thought, as did I, that there would be 50,000 + to protest the inauguration of Bush the II. My anarchist friend from NYC was aghast at the passivity of the crowd. He is fresh from the needle exchange world of Manhattan. Well, I will pop some more effexor and get on with the weekend... snip -Original Message- From: Yoshie Furuhashi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sunday, January 21, 2001 8:43 AM Subject: [PEN-L:7162] Re: Buck Fush Max writes: Besides the title of this ms., signs said "Fight Bush with bush, I'm Already Sick of Bush, Fuck Bush and the Harris He Rode In On, and my personal favorite, a huge black sign with white letters saying simply, "I Hate You." Those were the creative ones; most said Not My President, Hail to the Thief, or just Democracy (also the most common chants). In Columbus, Ohio, the signs said: "Texacutioner"; "Banana Republicans"; "Florida Gave Us Dumbo"; "Jews for Buchanan, Palm Beach County Branch"; etc. Yoshie
Re: Buck Fush
Max wrote: ... Once on PA ave people were jammed together like sardines. Babies crying, then it started to rain pretty good. Across the street, the bleachers, for which you needed a ticket, were sparsely filled. On our side (north), people with tickets couldn't move and get to their seats. Natch, the streets were lined completely with police every two yards that's the class system, in microcosm. I'm not much for demonstrations anymore, but I went to the one in Pershing Square in L.A. yesterday. A lot of people, though I don't know the count. The L.A. TIMES said 2,000, so it was probably more. Maxine Waters spoke very well, though I got the impression that she endorses the Al Gore pay-down-the-debt bandwagon. I didn't hear what the satiric "Billionaires for Bush" were saying (bad sound system). Sheila Kuehl (once on the TV show "the many loves of Dobie Gillis," now in the California state assembly and a lesbian activist) spoke and I thought it was much too formulaic. So I left the scene. Anyway, it was too sunny and hot (I was wearing all black, in mourning, while SoCal is wasted on people like me who are melanin-deficient) and crowded for me. The "Hail to the Thief" bumper-sticker I bought promptly fell off my car on the way home. I'll have to use my handy-dandy bumper-sticker program to make a new one, though I'll have to think up a better slogan to catch people's attention. The crowd was diverse, from those with "re-elect Gore in 2004" signs to the socialists, anarchists, and Zapatistas. (What's the point of wearing a mask? It _was_ funny that someone dressed up as the Grinch, with a Dubya mask on the back of her head, but she must have been very hot.) There were a lot of Democrats, not to mention a small number of folks from my secular-Jewish community (including one whose name I remembered!) When Maxine Waters said that Dubya was going to throw a lot of people off welfare, I muttered "something Clinton has already done" and a woman next to me said "that's not true!" It wasn't an appropriate venue for an argument. The Left was mostly represented by the International Socialist Organization. I bought a copy of their newspaper, which seems simply to sensationally report the regular news filtered through their party line (unlike the PEOPLE'S DAILY WORLD [of the Communist Party], which seems to do actual reporting before they filter it through their party line). There wasn't anything I didn't already know in the ISO paper, except one or two cute quotes from Dubya and a reference to Cheney as "the man behind the curtain." Still, the review of the movie "Traffic" was useful, pointing out what was missing (the violence against minority communities that is part and parcel of the war on drugs). I asked the ISO folk if Cal and Barbara Winslow were still in their leadership. They said they had many leaders and they hadn't heard those names. My main contribution was talk to a young man who was very upset about the failed election and to give him ideas for his placard. He didn't like my "'Dubya' stands for War," perhaps because Gore was more war-like (though I doubt it, since he liked Albert). The finished sign (a joint product of our efforts) said "'Dubya' stands for Wreckage of Democracy, the Environment, Civil Rights, and Justice." of the San Francisco demo, another observer [Adam Richmond] observed: I talked with a older dude from the sad little bolshevik tendency. I asked politely if they had any events or activities and was told no. Is this the famed "Bolshevik-Leninist Tendency," which is served on toast? ... The demo's lack of actual militancy disturbed me. I think it is like the turning over of Germany to Hitler without a real fight. I feel like a Jew in Berlin in 1933. Our quiet, legal coup has put the son of the CIA director in power. I think its a mistake to push Nazi analogies. To link Dubya to Hitler makes the latter look good. Also, it's sort of pointless to be militant -- in action or in rhetoric -- if you're in the small minority, unless you can link directly with people's concerns using concrete referents. It was a coup, but it didn't involve brown-shirts. Instead, it was black-robes. ... Well, I will pop some more effexor and get on with the weekend... anti-depressant? alcohol is cheaper. Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~JDevine
