Re: Re: Re: Re: Garbanzos for peace!
You must be in a fortunate area of the Great Plains. Many areas of the Plains are sujbect to drought conditions from time to time. Of course they are also subject to grasshoppers, fusarium, hail, winds, and all sorts of other conditions that make for reduced yield. Nevertheless they do in the long run produce huge crops of corn, grains, lenitils, sunflowers, etc.etc. In spite of all these problems the Great Plains have been and will continue to produce large crops of various grains, etc. This surely is undeniable and perhaps this is what you meant. Those making pronouncenments about turning the plains back to grasslands are the ones who havent got a clue about agricultural matters--although more land may be turned back to pasture etc.simply for economic reasons.. As well as drought some areas suffer from floods and/or an excess of moisture. I dont know about North Dakota but next door to me in Saskatchewan the citizens call their province Next Year Country meaning that farmers always expect that great crop next year. Similarly re the weather. It is not only drought.. They say of their climate: We dont have any good weather but we sure have a great variety of bad weather. Often drought in one area will be coupled with excess moisture and floods in other areas and with excellent growing conditions in others. In this year in Manitoba and Saskatchewan alone this is the situation. The area I live in has had plenty of rain and excellent harvest conditions and this is true of quite a bit of the province but the southeast corner is so wet some areas could not be seeded. In Saskatchewan the southeast corner has good crops but most of the rest of the province suffered form serious lack of moisture. So overall you can still get a large but reduced yield over the whole Canadian prairies. Cheers, Ken Hanly - Original Message - From: Andrew Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 9:29 PM Subject: [PEN-L:17523] Re: Re: Re: Garbanzos for peace! I'm a native of Fargo, North Dakota, and have spent quite a lot of time on farms in the Great Plains. Do you have a more specific objection to my remarks? Maybe I made some error. Andrew Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Fri, 21 Sep 2001 19:48:29 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Obviously, Andrew doesn't live on the prairies or deal with agricultural issues. Pity. Paul Phillips, Economics, University of Manitoba Most of the Great Plains does not need irrigation to produce crops with enormous yields, year after year. There are many problems such as overuse of insecticides and herbicides, and topsoil erosion, but we shouldn't stop farming the land for those reasons. Andrew Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Garbanzos for peace!
When western Canada was first surveyed by Europeans for settlement, the surveyor, Captain Palliser, deemed the northern extension of the great American desert not fit for settlement. This area is still known as Palliser's Triangle and is the area currently hit by drought. (This does not include Manitoba) As my old economics professor at Saskatchewan used to point out, the area gets only a couple more inches of rain than the Sahara desert. However in the decade or so preceding WW1, when settlement spread on the prairies, there was a period of the climatic cycle when rainfall was relatively plentiful. Hence the area was settled but it should never have been and should be returned to grazing land. Paul Phillips From: Andrew Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date sent: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 23:42:55 -0500 Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Priority: Normal Subject:[PEN-L:17534] Re: Garbanzos for peace! I'm sorry to hear about your horses. You're not kidding about drought. Drought is a recurring problem for farmers and ranchers on the Great Plains. I need to qualify my previous response. On the whole, irrigation is not necessary for successful farming and ranching in the region. Drought is temporary and scattered, but when it hits, it's devastating. Either irrigation or emergency funds for drought-stricken farmers are needed, though, along with a host of well thought agricultural policies to prevent all kinds of problems, including losses of family operations, topsoil erosion, rural impoverishment, and overuse of chemicals. Andrew Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Fri, 21 Sep 2001 21:54:14 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I just have lived for the past -- well almost 40 years on the prairies -- rode my horses, lived in my rural communtity, etc. cultimated my garden, tendered my pasture, etc, etc. Yea and we had a hell of a time with chemical crop dusters. Yea and we had a real problem with drought. Yea and we had a real problem with all the aspects of the corporate attempt to take over the ag. industry. We moved back to the city and, all of my horses are for sale (and saddles and bridles and tack). Paul Phillips Andrew Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date sent: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 21:29:33 -0500 Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Priority:Normal Subject: [PEN-L:17523] Re: Re: Re: Garbanzos for peace! I'm a native of Fargo, North Dakota, and have spent quite a lot of time on farms in the Great Plains. Do you have a more specific objection to my remarks? Maybe I made some error. Andrew Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Fri, 21 Sep 2001 19:48:29 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Obviously, Andrew doesn't live on the prairies or deal with agricultural issues. Pity. Paul Phillips, Economics, University of Manitoba Most of the Great Plains does not need irrigation to produce crops with enormous yields, year after year. There are many problems such as overuse of insecticides and herbicides, and topsoil erosion, but we shouldn't stop farming the land for those reasons. Andrew Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Re: Garbanzos for peace!
The triangle does include part of Manitoba. As noted it often accounts for over half of Canada's agricultural production. Maybe some parts should be returned to grazing land but grazing also produces problems. There may very well be even greater difficulties in this area because of global warming but we shall see. I would note too that some land that was broken in the early days already has been returned to range land. The remaining land is quite productive in years there is adequate rainfall. It should be noted too that in some areas such as parts of southern Alberta and around the Diefenbaker dam in Saskatchewan there is extensive irrigation. Of course many parts of the Great Plains in the US are not part of this Great American Desert.The below is from: http://sts.gsc.nrcan.gc.ca/page1/clim/palliser/ The Palliser Triangle is the driest region of the Canadian prairies, extending from southwestern Manitoba to southern Alberta. It often accounts for over half of Canada's agricultural production, despite a highly variable climate. However, future sustainable activities in parts of this region could be threatened by global climate change, which is expected to result in more frequent drought. Cheers, Ken Hanly PS. What on earth were you doing with horses? They have nothing to do with farming. They are used for riding and show by city slickers moved to hobby farms or by relatively well-off farmers for show and riding as well.. How many sections did you farm? People move out to rural areas expecting clear air only to get gassed by crop spraying as chemical sprays drift over rural residences. They are also greeted by the smell of hog barns and manure piles from feed lots, and the sweet smell of shit spread thick on the fields. Hey we didnt promise you a rose garden. Fortunately, there is a movement even among rural people to alleviate some of the worst features of industrial type farming. Stubble burning is more strictly controlled. There are fightbacks against expansion of hog barns by local residents not just environmentalists. Just a few miles up the road municipal offices were recently occupied by locals who wanted the council to address their concerns before approving any hog barns. However, some farmers seem to be rather indifferent to their actions. Last year, I was gassed by a farmer spraying just outside a small hamlet. I was able to take off in my car immediately. I have asthma. However, I spoke to an elderly couple later and their house was absolutely polluted. The wife was quite ill and had trouble breathing for some time afterward. Another farmer in the same area was caught jettisoning leftover treated seed on the road. This seed would poison any birds or wildlife that ate it. Someone spotted him and reported it and he was made to clean it up. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2001 2:38 PM Subject: [PEN-L:17565] Re: Re: Garbanzos for peace! When western Canada was first surveyed by Europeans for settlement, the surveyor, Captain Palliser, deemed the northern extension of the great American desert not fit for settlement. This area is still known as Palliser's Triangle and is the area currently hit by drought. (This does not include Manitoba) As my old economics professor at Saskatchewan used to point out, the area gets only a couple more inches of rain than the Sahara desert. However in the decade or so preceding WW1, when settlement spread on the prairies, there was a period of the climatic cycle when rainfall was relatively plentiful. Hence the area was settled but it should never have been and should be returned to grazing land. Paul Phillips From: Andrew Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date sent: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 23:42:55 -0500 Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Priority: Normal Subject:[PEN-L:17534] Re: Garbanzos for peace! I'm sorry to hear about your horses. You're not kidding about drought. Drought is a recurring problem for farmers and ranchers on the Great Plains. I need to qualify my previous response. On the whole, irrigation is not necessary for successful farming and ranching in the region. Drought is temporary and scattered, but when it hits, it's devastating. Either irrigation or emergency funds for drought-stricken farmers are needed, though, along with a host of well thought agricultural policies to prevent all kinds of problems, including losses of family operations, topsoil erosion, rural impoverishment, and overuse of chemicals. Andrew Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Fri, 21 Sep 2001 21:54:14 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I just have lived for the past -- well almost 40 years on the prairies -- rode my horses, lived in my rural communtity, etc. cultimated my garden, tendered my pasture, etc, etc. Yea and we had a hell of a time with chemical crop
Re: Re: Garbanzos for peace!
Obviously, Andrew doesn't live on the prairies or deal with agricultural issues. Pity. Paul Phillips, Economics, University of Manitoba Most of the Great Plains does not need irrigation to produce crops with enormous yields, year after year. There are many problems such as overuse of insecticides and herbicides, and topsoil erosion, but we shouldn't stop farming the land for those reasons. Andrew Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Re: Garbanzos for peace!
I'm a native of Fargo, North Dakota, and have spent quite a lot of time on farms in the Great Plains. Do you have a more specific objection to my remarks? Maybe I made some error. Andrew Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Fri, 21 Sep 2001 19:48:29 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Obviously, Andrew doesn't live on the prairies or deal with agricultural issues. Pity. Paul Phillips, Economics, University of Manitoba Most of the Great Plains does not need irrigation to produce crops with enormous yields, year after year. There are many problems such as overuse of insecticides and herbicides, and topsoil erosion, but we shouldn't stop farming the land for those reasons. Andrew Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Garbanzos for peace!
Well, I just have lived for the past -- well almost 40 years on the prairies -- rode my horses, lived in my rural communtity, etc. cultimated my garden, tendered my pasture, etc, etc. Yea and we had a hell of a time with chemical crop dusters. Yea and we had a real problem with drought. Yea and we had a real problem with all the aspects of the corporate attempt to take over the ag. industry. We moved back to the city and, all of my horses are for sale (and saddles and bridles and tack). Paul Phillips Andrew Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date sent: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 21:29:33 -0500 Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Priority: Normal Subject:[PEN-L:17523] Re: Re: Re: Garbanzos for peace! I'm a native of Fargo, North Dakota, and have spent quite a lot of time on farms in the Great Plains. Do you have a more specific objection to my remarks? Maybe I made some error. Andrew Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Fri, 21 Sep 2001 19:48:29 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Obviously, Andrew doesn't live on the prairies or deal with agricultural issues. Pity. Paul Phillips, Economics, University of Manitoba Most of the Great Plains does not need irrigation to produce crops with enormous yields, year after year. There are many problems such as overuse of insecticides and herbicides, and topsoil erosion, but we shouldn't stop farming the land for those reasons. Andrew Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
