Re: What is this thing called love?
There is a small but interesting literature on the economics of love, altruism, morality, and so on. My Beyond Profit and Self-Interest, chapter 6, has a short summary with bibliographic references. For example: Adam Smith, Theory of Moral Sentiments Kenneth Boulding, The Economy of Love and Fear David Collard, Altruism and Economics Amitai Etzioni, The Moral Dimension These writings contrast with the usual economists' cynicism about motives by assuming that non-selfish motives are possible and exploring their implications. At 20:49 14/03/04 -0800, you wrote: Porter is prety cold-eyed about love, which was my point to Joanna. He's the fella that wrote Love For Sale, among others. Electric eels, I might add, do it Though it shocks 'em I know Why ask if shad do it Waiter, bring me shadroe Tom Walker 604 255 4812 Robert Scott Gassler Professor of Economics Vesalius College of the Vrije Universiteit Brussel Pleinlaan 2 B-1050 Brussels Belgium 32.2.629.27.15
Re: What is this thing called love?
Personally, I often think that love is smoking your last cigarette, and knowing that you'll never smoke again, because your are faced with something fantastic (or have something fantastic in your face) which makes that you don't want to smoke anymore. My hunch is that human awareness is best categorised in terms of subconscious, subjective, intersubjective, objective, reality-transforming, and transcendent (these forms build on each other). Different facets of love apply to each of those forms of awareness. But as I suggested, love is contained in practices and relations involved in interchanges between people - acts of giving, getting, receiving and taking (which, in a market economy, become to an extent reified). Forms of awareness mediated those interchanges, but those interchanges go beyond that awareness, such being the limitations of human consciousness. On that foundation, I could devise a praxiological theory of love and so on, which explicates all the different permutations there are. But, you can analyse that and bore that to death, and such a theory would be only as satisfactory as the ability to implement the theory; and in my experience, it is possible to theorise far more than you can put into practice, i.e. a scholar can have far too much theory, making his practice one-sided, just as a practicist can have far too much practice and not enough theory, making his practice also one-sided. That aside, the transcendent part of human awareness cannot be theorised using logical operators, it can at most be named, but even the naming is not free from multiple interpretations or alternative namings, so, it is kind of poetic. A mystical statement is a statement the object of which is indefinite, hence prone to paradoxes which refer to the contradictions in human experience. Thus, the Koran suggests that whereas poets have their role, you shouldn't think that poetry can substitute for other forms of awareness, especially in regard to leadership (to get the full flavour of the idea you really have to follow the Arabic, but I do not understand Arabic). I just got back from a trip to the Bijlmer which was enjoyable, and you could see a lot of love there, in fact quite a few people were smiling, unusual for Amsterdam, except on holidays, when it's sunny. As I got back home, one of my neighbours said in passing, you're naive. Which probably I am in certain aspects (I don't know to which part of my behaviour he was referring, the interview, talking to particular people, or not picking up a girl, or something like that). It's a funny culture here really, because people are both very judgemental and very tolerant, i.e. both strong opinions and live-and-let-live. There's always supposed to be something wrong with me, especially since I rarely join in Dutch culture these days (because I often experience it as rather harsh, corrupt, criminal, heartless and exploitative if I get hypersensitive; I don't like the Dutch circuses either). Dutch people like to think about what other people deserve or do not deserve, whereas I am thinking about dessert. Probably as regards pop music, the love song I like the best is a very simple, calm and modest number John Lennon wrote, called straightforwardly Love (very literal, rather than metaphoric), which has terrific harmonics in it, from a musical point of view (I actually like a version of it done by a female singer better, she has a fuller, more modulated voice, larger tonal range, more conviction, pathos and dignity in it, but I have forgotten who it was, I saw it on TV once; it's difficult to sing, so it actually sounds good rather than pathetic). At that time he wrote it, JL had been doing his Primal Scream stuff with Dr Arthur Janov, trying to get his pain out through the vocal chords, so his singing wasn't the best anyhow, rather raw. Ah wel, you tend to like the music you grew up with, that is really anchored in your experience. Arguably pop music is about sex, not about love, but really pop music is mostly about whatever is popular, I would think, and the themes change. Jurriaan
Re: What is this thing called love?
Dennis Robertson. What Does the Economist Economize? in Economic Commentaries. London: Staples Press, 1956, pp. 147-55. He said that we economize love. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: What is this thing called love?
- Original Message - From: Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dennis Robertson. What Does the Economist Economize? in Economic Commentaries. London: Staples Press, 1956, pp. 147-55. He said that we economize love. == Doesn't Albert O. Hirschman suggest something similar? That it's good that love is scarce? Ian
Re: What is this thing called love?
--- Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dennis Robertson. What Does the Economist Economize? in Economic Commentaries. London: Staples Press, 1956, pp. 147-55. He said that we economize love. Reminds me of that old song Love for Sale. Interesting that the word wares appears in the lyrics. The word for commodity in German is ware. Regards, Mike B) ** When the only sound in the empty street, Is the heavy tread of the heavy feet That belong to a lonesome cop I open shop. When the moon so long has been gazing down On the wayward ways of this wayward town. That her smile becomes a smirk, I go to work. Love for sale, Appetising young love for sale. Love that's fresh and still unspoiled, Love that's only slightly soiled, Love for sale. Who will buy? Who would like to sample my supply? Who's prepared to pay the price, For a trip to paradise? Love for sale Let the poets pipe of love in their childish way, I know every type of love Better far than they. If you want the thrill of love, I've been through the mill of love; Old love, new love Every love but true love Love for sale. Appetising young love for sale. If you want to buy my wares. Follow me and climb the stairs Love for sale. Love for sale. Written by Cole Porter; sung best by Billy Holiday. = ...the safest course is to do nothing against one's conscience. With this secret, we can enjoy life and have no fear from death. Voltaire http://profiles.yahoo.com/swillsqueal __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: What is this thing called love?
Mike Ballard wrote: --- Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: jks wrote: joanna wrote: snip happens pish tosh! bah humbug! you sentimentalists! all you need to remember is the words of the sister: what's love but a second hand emotion? It's physical Only logical You must try to ignore That it means more than that ;-) --ravi p.s: kindness and caring. that's what counts. ;-)
Re: What is this thing called love?
pish tosh! bah humbug! you sentimentalists! all you need to remember is the words of the sister: what's love but a second hand emotion? It's physical Only logical You must try to ignore That it means more than that ;-) If you look at What Is This Thing Called Love, it's not exactly sentimental. Here is the full lyric: I was a hum-drum person Leading a life apart When love flew in through my window wide And quickened my hum-drum heart Love flew in thorugh my window I was so happy then But after love had stayed a little while Love flew out again What is this thing called love? This funny thing called love? Just who can solve its mystery? Why should it make a fool of me? I saw you there one wonderful day You took my heart and threw it away Thats why I ask the lawd in heaven above What is this thing called love? You gave me days of sunshine You gave me nights of cheer You made my life an enchanted dream til somebody else came near Somebody else came near you I felt the winters chill And now I sit and wonder night and day Why I love you still? Porter is prety cold-eyed about love, which was my point to Joanna. He's the fella that wrote Love For Sale, among others. Btw he does have a song called: It's A Chemical Reaction, That's All! --ravi p.s: kindness and caring. that's what counts. ;-) __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: What is this thing called love?
The knight sets forth... 1. In Mimesis in the Origins of Bourgeois Culture (Theory and Society, Autumn, 1977) Sharon Zukin suggested that the Protestant ethic, to which Weber attributed the spirit of capitalism -- Benjamin Franklin's moralizing about hard work and thrift -- the cult of the self-made man -- may have been ultimately based on bourgeois mimesis and adaptation of the conventions of aristocratic courtly romance. 2. see also Susan Buck-Morss: The Flaneur, the Sandwichman and the Whore (New German Critique, Fall, 1986) The Flaneur takes the concept of being-for-sale itself for a walk... his last incarnation is as sandwichman. ...the 'keep smiling' on the job market adopts the behavior of the whore who, on the love market, picks up someone with a smile. With regard to the de La Rochefoucauld maxim I posted earlier, I would interpret les femmes as only conventionally referring to women but metaphorically referring more broadly to those who love. And les premires passions are, in my opinion, only mentioned to provide a spectral counterpoint to les autres. The maxim thus boils down to something like those who love are in love with love. les femmes and les premires passions give the maxim character and animate it, just as l'amant does for l'amour. Tom Walker 604 255 4812
Re: What is this thing called love?
Porter is prety cold-eyed about love, which was my point to Joanna. He's the fella that wrote Love For Sale, among others. Electric eels, I might add, do it Though it shocks 'em I know Why ask if shad do it Waiter, bring me shadroe Tom Walker 604 255 4812
Re: What is this thing called love?
Btw he does have a song called: It's A Chemical Reaction, That's All Yes, the divine Cyd Charisse sings it in terrific movie called Silk Stockings. The movie itself is a remake of Ninotchka --which proved Garbo can't do comedy. Anyway, the only remake I can think of that's better than the original: Fred Astaire, Cyd Charisse, Peter Lorre, and a host of others. Joanna
Re: What is this thing called love?
Joanna: Why not simply say that human relationships are bound by love. After all, contracts are always conditional, whereas love is not. Dans les premires passions les femmes aiment l'amant, et dans les autres elles aiment l'amour. -- Franois, duc de La Rochefoucauld Tom Walker 604 255 4812
Re: What is this thing called love?
Tom Walker wrote: Joanna: Why not simply say that human relationships are bound by love. After all, contracts are always conditional, whereas love is not. Dans les premires passions les femmes aiment l'amant, et dans les autres elles aiment l'amour. -- Franois, duc de La Rochefoucauld Translation: In their first passions women love the lover, and in the others, they love love. I think that shows women to be doubly wise, though I understand that's not R's drift. Joanna
