Re: Please create a Raku community channel

[Parrot Raiser]

I'n not familiar with list managers today, but in old Unix systems it
used to be possible to put a ".forward" file in one's home directory
that would automatically forward mail to another address.

Conceptually, an alias or symbolic link, so that more than one address
ultimately pointed to one account.

If a similar mechanism could alias the "perl6" prefix to "raku", that
would seem a simple solution.

On 3/15/21, William Michels via perl6-users  wrote:
> Hello Richard (and all),
>
> The simplest solution seems to be reviving the historical
> mailing-lists pertaining to the Perl6 effort, in particular, the
> "perl6-announce" mailing list at perl6-annou...@perl.org . Daniel
> Sockwell wrote as much in his recent email. New subscribers can sign
> up at perl6-announce-subscr...@perl.org .
>
> According to https://raku.org/archive/lists/ , "perl6-announce [is a]
> Moderated list for news of new lists, working groups, and so on.
> Summaries from the top-level working groups are also posted here."
> Presumably that includes reports from the Raku Steering Council.
>
> Yes, it can/should be renamed "raku-announce", but in the meantime why
> not use it?
>
> Best Regards, Bill.
>
> W. Michels, Ph.D.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 4:19 AM Richard Hainsworth
>  wrote:
>>
>> Thanks to everyone that responded.
>>
>> It seems to me that the establishment of a common communication channel
>> by the RSC (Raku Steering Council) would in itself define the Raku
>> Community. Those who want to be a part of the community would track
>> (follow, read, contribute etc) the channel. I don't think it is
>> something that needs to be over-thought. Every channel has its
>> advantages and disadvantages, and there's going to be someone who does
>> not like the result.
>>
>> But the current situation of multiple channels of communicating is
>> obviously going to create confusion. It would be like having multiple
>> places for defining the same set of constants for a software project, or
>> some other analogy of duplicating code that should be kept in one place
>> and referred to, not written and maintained in multiple places.
>>
>> Also, if like-minded people have a way to share and cooperate, a
>> community will build. Facilitating the growth of a community will have
>> an impact on the acceptance of Raku as a language.
>>
>> Having multiple differing approaches to the same problem can be good -
>> not arguing with that. But if there's no common way to share information
>> about the multiple approaches, how can the different approaches be
>> compared? If they can't be compared, then the advantages of multiple
>> approaches are lost. And no one can be certain that their efforts are
>> being considered.
>>
>> It turns out - from comments of JJ and Vadim - that Altai-man's
>> initiative is a personal one. Had it not been late at night (for me) and
>> had there been an established channel where  plans for community
>> resources are shared, I would have realised that straight-away. Instead,
>> I got annoyed and lost sleep (silly and unreasonable, but I am human).
>>
>> Daniel, I look forward to hearing from you. Altai-man, please send me a
>> link that I can catch up with what you are planning (I'm not so good at
>> tracking multiple github repos).
>>
>> One of the things I would like to do is to set up a way of doing
>> documentation that will allow for multiple languages to be possible,
>> which means that it should be possible to show the same documentation
>> file side-by-side in two languages, with text for each language kept in
>> a separate file, but for equivalent places in the documentation to be
>> synchronised. It would also be good to have revisionning history
>> visible, so that updates in the main text can be tracked so as to update
>> in a target language text.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Richard
>>
>> On 14/03/2021 21:16, Daniel Sockwell wrote:
>> > I agree with the points Vadim and JJ made: There's a good chance that
>> > having a more official
>> > communication channel would _not_ have prevented surprise here, since
>> > the amount of progress
>> > on the a potential docs redesign seems to have taken many people
>> > (including me!) by surprise.
>> > I guess that's what happens when our community has "forgiveness >>
>> > permission" as a core value!
>> >
>> > That said, I also agree with Vadim that we should have a better way to
>> > communicate things like
>> > this,
>> > even if it wouldn't have been relevant in this particular case. In fact,
>> > we theoretically do: our
>> > website lists the perl6-announce list, which is supposed to be "low
>> > traffic (a few emails a
>> > month)".
>> > https://raku.org/community
>> >
>> > Looking at the archive for that list, it has been **very** low traffic
>> > indeed: the last message was
>> >
>> > sent in 2015. So we clearly haven't been using it, and starting now
>> > (when we're about to finally
>> > move on to raku-* mailing lists) probably doesn't make much sense. But,
>> > once 

Re: Please create a Raku community channel

[William Michels via perl6-users]

Hello Richard (and all),

The simplest solution seems to be reviving the historical
mailing-lists pertaining to the Perl6 effort, in particular, the
"perl6-announce" mailing list at perl6-annou...@perl.org . Daniel
Sockwell wrote as much in his recent email. New subscribers can sign
up at perl6-announce-subscr...@perl.org .

According to https://raku.org/archive/lists/ , "perl6-announce [is a]
Moderated list for news of new lists, working groups, and so on.
Summaries from the top-level working groups are also posted here."
Presumably that includes reports from the Raku Steering Council.

Yes, it can/should be renamed "raku-announce", but in the meantime why
not use it?

Best Regards, Bill.

W. Michels, Ph.D.



On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 4:19 AM Richard Hainsworth
 wrote:
>
> Thanks to everyone that responded.
>
> It seems to me that the establishment of a common communication channel
> by the RSC (Raku Steering Council) would in itself define the Raku
> Community. Those who want to be a part of the community would track
> (follow, read, contribute etc) the channel. I don't think it is
> something that needs to be over-thought. Every channel has its
> advantages and disadvantages, and there's going to be someone who does
> not like the result.
>
> But the current situation of multiple channels of communicating is
> obviously going to create confusion. It would be like having multiple
> places for defining the same set of constants for a software project, or
> some other analogy of duplicating code that should be kept in one place
> and referred to, not written and maintained in multiple places.
>
> Also, if like-minded people have a way to share and cooperate, a
> community will build. Facilitating the growth of a community will have
> an impact on the acceptance of Raku as a language.
>
> Having multiple differing approaches to the same problem can be good -
> not arguing with that. But if there's no common way to share information
> about the multiple approaches, how can the different approaches be
> compared? If they can't be compared, then the advantages of multiple
> approaches are lost. And no one can be certain that their efforts are
> being considered.
>
> It turns out - from comments of JJ and Vadim - that Altai-man's
> initiative is a personal one. Had it not been late at night (for me) and
> had there been an established channel where  plans for community
> resources are shared, I would have realised that straight-away. Instead,
> I got annoyed and lost sleep (silly and unreasonable, but I am human).
>
> Daniel, I look forward to hearing from you. Altai-man, please send me a
> link that I can catch up with what you are planning (I'm not so good at
> tracking multiple github repos).
>
> One of the things I would like to do is to set up a way of doing
> documentation that will allow for multiple languages to be possible,
> which means that it should be possible to show the same documentation
> file side-by-side in two languages, with text for each language kept in
> a separate file, but for equivalent places in the documentation to be
> synchronised. It would also be good to have revisionning history
> visible, so that updates in the main text can be tracked so as to update
> in a target language text.
>
> Regards,
>
> Richard
>
> On 14/03/2021 21:16, Daniel Sockwell wrote:
> > I agree with the points Vadim and JJ made: There's a good chance that 
> > having a more official
> > communication channel would _not_ have prevented surprise here, since the 
> > amount of progress
> > on the a potential docs redesign seems to have taken many people (including 
> > me!) by surprise.
> > I guess that's what happens when our community has "forgiveness >> 
> > permission" as a core value!
> >
> > That said, I also agree with Vadim that we should have a better way to 
> > communicate things like
> > this,
> > even if it wouldn't have been relevant in this particular case. In fact, we 
> > theoretically do: our
> > website lists the perl6-announce list, which is supposed to be "low traffic 
> > (a few emails a
> > month)".
> > https://raku.org/community
> >
> > Looking at the archive for that list, it has been **very** low traffic 
> > indeed: the last message was
> >
> > sent in 2015. So we clearly haven't been using it, and starting now (when 
> > we're about to finally
> > move on to raku-* mailing lists) probably doesn't make much sense. But, 
> > once we do, making an
> > effort
> > to actually use the raku-announce list seems like a good way to address 
> > this issue.
> >
> > Finally, Richard, in the interest of not taking you by surprise again on 
> > the same topic, I wanted to
> > mention that, inspired by the proposed doc site redesign and your comments 
> > about the broader topic,
> > I'm now working on a proof of concept along the same lines (because I have 
> > a slightly different vision
> > of what a redesigned website might look like, but don't think I can 
> > communicate it without a POC).  I

Re: Please create a Raku community channel

[Richard Hainsworth]

Thanks to everyone that responded.

It seems to me that the establishment of a common communication channel 
by the RSC (Raku Steering Council) would in itself define the Raku 
Community. Those who want to be a part of the community would track 
(follow, read, contribute etc) the channel. I don't think it is 
something that needs to be over-thought. Every channel has its 
advantages and disadvantages, and there's going to be someone who does 
not like the result.


But the current situation of multiple channels of communicating is 
obviously going to create confusion. It would be like having multiple 
places for defining the same set of constants for a software project, or 
some other analogy of duplicating code that should be kept in one place 
and referred to, not written and maintained in multiple places.


Also, if like-minded people have a way to share and cooperate, a 
community will build. Facilitating the growth of a community will have 
an impact on the acceptance of Raku as a language.


Having multiple differing approaches to the same problem can be good - 
not arguing with that. But if there's no common way to share information 
about the multiple approaches, how can the different approaches be 
compared? If they can't be compared, then the advantages of multiple 
approaches are lost. And no one can be certain that their efforts are 
being considered.


It turns out - from comments of JJ and Vadim - that Altai-man's 
initiative is a personal one. Had it not been late at night (for me) and 
had there been an established channel where  plans for community 
resources are shared, I would have realised that straight-away. Instead, 
I got annoyed and lost sleep (silly and unreasonable, but I am human).


Daniel, I look forward to hearing from you. Altai-man, please send me a 
link that I can catch up with what you are planning (I'm not so good at 
tracking multiple github repos).


One of the things I would like to do is to set up a way of doing 
documentation that will allow for multiple languages to be possible, 
which means that it should be possible to show the same documentation 
file side-by-side in two languages, with text for each language kept in 
a separate file, but for equivalent places in the documentation to be 
synchronised. It would also be good to have revisionning history 
visible, so that updates in the main text can be tracked so as to update 
in a target language text.


Regards,

Richard

On 14/03/2021 21:16, Daniel Sockwell wrote:

I agree with the points Vadim and JJ made: There's a good chance that having a 
more official
communication channel would _not_ have prevented surprise here, since the 
amount of progress
on the a potential docs redesign seems to have taken many people (including 
me!) by surprise.
I guess that's what happens when our community has "forgiveness >> permission" 
as a core value!

That said, I also agree with Vadim that we should have a better way to 
communicate things like
this,
even if it wouldn't have been relevant in this particular case. In fact, we 
theoretically do: our
website lists the perl6-announce list, which is supposed to be "low traffic (a 
few emails a
month)".
https://raku.org/community

Looking at the archive for that list, it has been **very** low traffic indeed: 
the last message was

sent in 2015. So we clearly haven't been using it, and starting now (when we're 
about to finally
move on to raku-* mailing lists) probably doesn't make much sense. But, once we 
do, making an
effort
to actually use the raku-announce list seems like a good way to address this 
issue.

Finally, Richard, in the interest of not taking you by surprise again on the 
same topic, I wanted to
mention that, inspired by the proposed doc site redesign and your comments 
about the broader topic,
I'm now working on a proof of concept along the same lines (because I have a 
slightly different vision
of what a redesigned website might look like, but don't think I can communicate 
it without a POC).  I
hope to be able to share more details in the coming days.

Best,
Daniel / codesections

Re: Please create a Raku community channel

[Daniel Sockwell]

I agree with the points Vadim and JJ made: There's a good chance that having a 
more official 
communication channel would _not_ have prevented surprise here, since the 
amount of progress 
on the a potential docs redesign seems to have taken many people (including 
me!) by surprise.
I guess that's what happens when our community has "forgiveness >> permission" 
as a core value!

That said, I also agree with Vadim that we should have a better way to 
communicate things like
this,
even if it wouldn't have been relevant in this particular case. In fact, we 
theoretically do: our 
website lists the perl6-announce list, which is supposed to be "low traffic (a 
few emails a
month)".
https://raku.org/community

Looking at the archive for that list, it has been **very** low traffic indeed: 
the last message was

sent in 2015. So we clearly haven't been using it, and starting now (when we're 
about to finally 
move on to raku-* mailing lists) probably doesn't make much sense. But, once we 
do, making an
effort
to actually use the raku-announce list seems like a good way to address this 
issue.

Finally, Richard, in the interest of not taking you by surprise again on the 
same topic, I wanted to
mention that, inspired by the proposed doc site redesign and your comments 
about the broader topic,
I'm now working on a proof of concept along the same lines (because I have a 
slightly different vision
of what a redesigned website might look like, but don't think I can communicate 
it without a POC).  I 
hope to be able to share more details in the coming days.

Best,
Daniel / codesections

Re: Please create a Raku community channel

[Vadim Belman]

Rakudo Weekly cannot serve as an offical channel. First of all, because it is 
"Rakudo" weekly, not "Raku". There is a good reason for this. Second, because 
it's weekly and I don't see why its format should be changed. We may need to 
have more prompt response in certain cases. Third, it's first and foremost is a 
personal project of Elizabeth, and I wish it remains this way because this is 
one of the things which makes it so interesting and valuable.

Best regards,
Vadim Belman

> On Mar 14, 2021, at 7:30 AM, yary  wrote:
> 
> The Rakudo Weekly blog gives me a sense of what's going on in the Raku world, 
> when I remember to check it! https://rakudoweekly.blog/about-rakudo-weekly/ 
> 
> 
> That site isn't quite what's called for in therms of community discussion and 
> announcements, but is a decent "organic" overview of what's happening in Raku 
> lists & blog spaces.
> 
> -y
> 
> 
> On Sun, Mar 14, 2021 at 3:32 AM Darren Duncan  > wrote:
> On 2021-03-13 2:27 p.m., Vadim Belman wrote:
> > Concerning the accidental duplication of projects, aside of the fact that 
> > it is dissipation of scarce community resources, the good side is that 
> > there will be two options to choose from. I will be happy to see both 
> > project launched. One could eventually become part of the official site, 
> > the other may be ran independently. One way or another I hope there will be 
> > more gains from it than loses.
> 
> These projects could be merged if both authors are conducive to it, now that 
> this is known.
> 
> If there is reason for them to stay separate, I don't see why they can't BOTH 
> be 
> official sites, like Version 1 plus Version A, no reason to have to pick one.
> 
> -- Darren Duncan

Re: Please create a Raku community channel

[Vadim Belman]

The official one is what you get when go to docs.raku.org. I can hardly imagine 
an acceptable way to have both versions represented under the same domain.

Best regards,
Vadim Belman

> On Mar 14, 2021, at 3:31 AM, Darren Duncan  wrote:
> 
> On 2021-03-13 2:27 p.m., Vadim Belman wrote:
>> Concerning the accidental duplication of projects, aside of the fact that it 
>> is dissipation of scarce community resources, the good side is that there 
>> will be two options to choose from. I will be happy to see both project 
>> launched. One could eventually become part of the official site, the other 
>> may be ran independently. One way or another I hope there will be more gains 
>> from it than loses.
> 
> These projects could be merged if both authors are conducive to it, now that 
> this is known.
> 
> If there is reason for them to stay separate, I don't see why they can't BOTH 
> be official sites, like Version 1 plus Version A, no reason to have to pick 
> one.
> 
> -- Darren Duncan
> 

Re: Please create a Raku community channel

[Vadim Belman]

My point about the resources were rather an answer to Richard's reaction, as I 
understood it. Otherwise, I share the view of "more project is better than no 
projects, even if they duplicate". :)

The matter of community definition is a hard one, indeed. To my view we have 
two different purposes for defining it. First, it's when it comes to any kind 
of elections. Second, when it comes to distribution of information. Your focus 
on commit bits is rather related to to the first purpose, as I consider it. But 
if we think of the second one then wider meaning of community as "all devs 
using Raku and following its development" would be sufficient and will simplify 
the task of establishing a channel. Say, we choose to start an official blog 
(https://news.raku.org perhaps?). It would be under the control of Raku 
Steering Council. I.e., only RSC decides what is posted there. Technical and 
organizational implementation details are currently irrelevant. Not only the 
blog could inform about new releases, administrative actions, but anyone can 
send a request for posting something, they consider relevant and worthwhile 
mentioning officially. A new documentation project could be among such topics.

Best regards,
Vadim Belman

> On Mar 14, 2021, at 3:25 AM, JJ Merelo  wrote:
> 
> I don't think it's a duplication (or, as might be the case, triplication) of 
> resources, or a waste of resources. I learned early on that the "resources" 
> of the community is not, as in a company, a pool with a constant value from 
> which you, as in yourself, can draw to push forward your favorite project. On 
> the contrary, it falls on you to try and steer anyone's favorite project in a 
> direction that could help *your* favorite project, and also to prop up your 
> project so that it's open to contributions in a way that don't break or 
> derail it. That's the best you can do. Also, a community with three or four 
> projects in the same direction (documentation or whatever) is a great 
> community; at the end of the day, you can profit from all three, even if it's 
> in a tiny detail or simply on the effort put into implementing a standard.
> That said, the initial problem still stands: there's no way to make the whole 
> community know something that might be important, such as the doc site 
> dropping from some parts of the internet, or an adoption drive for some 
> community module, really, whatever.  Voting for the RSC... And that's got 
> several sub-problems
> 1. We need to define community. If it's someone with a commit bit in every 
> repo of the 5 (yes 5) Raku organizations, well, that's a tall order. There 
> are myriad teams, some people have a commit bit just in one repo. And then 
> this excludes people who contribute to the community in a different way, from 
> organizing challenges to curating subreddits through answering questions in 
> StackOverflow.
> 2. Even if you include all and everyone, you need to define what would go 
> into that channel. As in a logging system, you need to define the severity of 
> the issue to make the channel really relevant and actionnable. That, of 
> course, goes against the fact that it needs to be open to everyone, and also 
> interactive. 
> 3. There's no single communication channel that's a) used by everyone and b) 
> accessed by everyone on a hourly, or even daily, basis. 
> 
> So there's really no solution to your problem, other than try and tell 
> everyone, many times, in different channels, whatever the heck you're 
> interested on, and it will eventually grab the attention of the stakeholders 
> (and don't have me defining stakeholders...). 
> 
> I really appreciate everyone's contributions, I really do. So heartfelt 
> thanks to all :-)
> 
> Cheers
> 
> JJ
> 
> El sáb, 13 mar 2021 a las 23:27, Vadim Belman ( >) escribió:
> 
> I would like to make an important note here. Up to my knowledge, the new 
> documentation site project is personal initiative of Alexander (Altai-man) of 
> which nobody of RSC members was informed about. For this reason it is rather 
> unlikely that any notification would be issued on any official channel, would 
> such one existed. I personally got to know about it the moment Alexander 
> posted his request for help on IRC.
> 
> Apparently, the above paragraph doesn't say that we don't need an official 
> channel of a kind. I was asking a similar question ~1.5yr ago. As it is with 
> many other matters, this one needed some time to gain momentum. Perhaps, the 
> time has come to get it answered.
> 
> Concerning the accidental duplication of projects, aside of the fact that it 
> is dissipation of scarce community resources, the good side is that there 
> will be two options to choose from. I will be happy to see both project 
> launched. One could eventually become part of the official site, the other 
> may be ran independently. One way or another I hope there will be more gains 
> from it than loses.
> 
> Best 

Re: Please create a Raku community channel

[yary]

The Rakudo Weekly blog gives me a sense of what's going on in the Raku
world, when I remember to check it!
https://rakudoweekly.blog/about-rakudo-weekly/

That site isn't quite what's called for in therms of community discussion
and announcements, but is a decent "organic" overview of what's happening
in Raku lists & blog spaces.

-y


On Sun, Mar 14, 2021 at 3:32 AM Darren Duncan 
wrote:

> On 2021-03-13 2:27 p.m., Vadim Belman wrote:
> > Concerning the accidental duplication of projects, aside of the fact
> that it is dissipation of scarce community resources, the good side is that
> there will be two options to choose from. I will be happy to see both
> project launched. One could eventually become part of the official site,
> the other may be ran independently. One way or another I hope there will be
> more gains from it than loses.
>
> These projects could be merged if both authors are conducive to it, now
> that
> this is known.
>
> If there is reason for them to stay separate, I don't see why they can't
> BOTH be
> official sites, like Version 1 plus Version A, no reason to have to pick
> one.
>
> -- Darren Duncan
>

Re: Please create a Raku community channel

[Darren Duncan]

On 2021-03-13 2:27 p.m., Vadim Belman wrote:

Concerning the accidental duplication of projects, aside of the fact that it is 
dissipation of scarce community resources, the good side is that there will be 
two options to choose from. I will be happy to see both project launched. One 
could eventually become part of the official site, the other may be ran 
independently. One way or another I hope there will be more gains from it than 
loses.


These projects could be merged if both authors are conducive to it, now that 
this is known.


If there is reason for them to stay separate, I don't see why they can't BOTH be 
official sites, like Version 1 plus Version A, no reason to have to pick one.


-- Darren Duncan

Re: Please create a Raku community channel

[JJ Merelo]

I don't think it's a duplication (or, as might be the case, triplication)
of resources, or a waste of resources. I learned early on that the
"resources" of the community is not, as in a company, a pool with a
constant value from which you, as in yourself, can draw to push forward
your favorite project. On the contrary, it falls on you to try and steer
anyone's favorite project in a direction that could help *your* favorite
project, and also to prop up your project so that it's open to
contributions in a way that don't break or derail it. That's the best you
can do. Also, a community with three or four projects in the same direction
(documentation or whatever) is a great community; at the end of the day,
you can profit from all three, even if it's in a tiny detail or simply on
the effort put into implementing a standard.
That said, the initial problem still stands: there's no way to make the
whole community know something that might be important, such as the doc
site dropping from some parts of the internet, or an adoption drive for
some community module, really, whatever.  Voting for the RSC... And that's
got several sub-problems
1. We need to define community. If it's someone with a commit bit in every
repo of the 5 (yes 5) Raku organizations, well, that's a tall order. There
are myriad teams, some people have a commit bit just in one repo. And then
this excludes people who contribute to the community in a different way,
from organizing challenges to curating subreddits through answering
questions in StackOverflow.
2. Even if you include all and everyone, you need to define what would go
into that channel. As in a logging system, you need to define the severity
of the issue to make the channel really relevant and actionnable. That, of
course, goes against the fact that it needs to be open to everyone, and
also interactive.
3. There's no single communication channel that's a) used by everyone and
b) accessed by everyone on a hourly, or even daily, basis.

So there's really no solution to your problem, other than try and tell
everyone, many times, in different channels, whatever the heck you're
interested on, and it will eventually grab the attention of the
stakeholders (and don't have me defining stakeholders...).

I really appreciate everyone's contributions, I really do. So heartfelt
thanks to all :-)

Cheers

JJ

El sáb, 13 mar 2021 a las 23:27, Vadim Belman () escribió:

>
> I would like to make an important note here. Up to my knowledge, the new
> documentation site project is personal initiative of Alexander (Altai-man)
> of which nobody of RSC members was informed about. For this reason it is
> rather unlikely that any notification would be issued on any official
> channel, would such one existed. I personally got to know about it the
> moment Alexander posted his request for help on IRC.
>
> Apparently, the above paragraph doesn't say that we don't need an official
> channel of a kind. I was asking a similar question ~1.5yr ago. As it is
> with many other matters, this one needed some time to gain momentum.
> Perhaps, the time has come to get it answered.
>
> Concerning the accidental duplication of projects, aside of the fact that
> it is dissipation of scarce community resources, the good side is that
> there will be two options to choose from. I will be happy to see both
> project launched. One could eventually become part of the official site,
> the other may be ran independently. One way or another I hope there will be
> more gains from it than loses.
>
> Best regards,
> Vadim Belman
>
> > On Mar 13, 2021, at 2:21 AM, Richard Hainsworth 
> wrote:
> >
> > This is a request to the Raku Coordinating Council that was elected at
> the end of last year.
> >
> > Please name a channel where community wide plans or announcements are
> made. Or may be establish one.
> >
> > I found out yesterday by the intervention of a regular participant in
> the community that a new documentation website is being worked on.
> >
> > I joined a conversation on the raku-dev IRC and discovered that the
> plans are quite far established. Since I have been working full-time for
> three months on a project that could (not should!!) serve as the
> infra-structure of a new site, I was really quite surprised and I am sure
> many of you will understand it was jarring.
> >
> > I follow all the conversations on this email list. I have found it very
> difficult (due to my own technical incompetence relating to github) to set
> up my github preferences to get regular notification about issues. I have
> also found that the IRC chats are streams of consciousness that are
> difficult for me to manage.
> >
> > It seems however, that it is my fault that I was taken by surprise  by
> the news of a different documentation website and that I should have been
> following all the issues on the documentation repo or the problem solving
> repo.
> >
> > It *IS* reasonable for Raku developers and community organisers to make
> it the 

Re: Please create a Raku community channel

[Vadim Belman]

I would like to make an important note here. Up to my knowledge, the new 
documentation site project is personal initiative of Alexander (Altai-man) of 
which nobody of RSC members was informed about. For this reason it is rather 
unlikely that any notification would be issued on any official channel, would 
such one existed. I personally got to know about it the moment Alexander posted 
his request for help on IRC.

Apparently, the above paragraph doesn't say that we don't need an official 
channel of a kind. I was asking a similar question ~1.5yr ago. As it is with 
many other matters, this one needed some time to gain momentum. Perhaps, the 
time has come to get it answered.

Concerning the accidental duplication of projects, aside of the fact that it is 
dissipation of scarce community resources, the good side is that there will be 
two options to choose from. I will be happy to see both project launched. One 
could eventually become part of the official site, the other may be ran 
independently. One way or another I hope there will be more gains from it than 
loses.

Best regards,
Vadim Belman

> On Mar 13, 2021, at 2:21 AM, Richard Hainsworth  
> wrote:
> 
> This is a request to the Raku Coordinating Council that was elected at the 
> end of last year.
> 
> Please name a channel where community wide plans or announcements are made. 
> Or may be establish one.
> 
> I found out yesterday by the intervention of a regular participant in the 
> community that a new documentation website is being worked on.
> 
> I joined a conversation on the raku-dev IRC and discovered that the plans are 
> quite far established. Since I have been working full-time for three months 
> on a project that could (not should!!) serve as the infra-structure of a new 
> site, I was really quite surprised and I am sure many of you will understand 
> it was jarring.
> 
> I follow all the conversations on this email list. I have found it very 
> difficult (due to my own technical incompetence relating to github) to set up 
> my github preferences to get regular notification about issues. I have also 
> found that the IRC chats are streams of consciousness that are difficult for 
> me to manage.
> 
> It seems however, that it is my fault that I was taken by surprise  by the 
> news of a different documentation website and that I should have been 
> following all the issues on the documentation repo or the problem solving 
> repo.
> 
> It *IS* reasonable for Raku developers and community organisers to make it 
> the responsibility of a participant to follow conversations, but I would 
> suggest that the current scattering of conversations, on the IRC chat, 
> various github repositories, this email list, is not *optimal* for the 
> development of a coherent Raku community. It is also - I would suggest - a 
> waste of human resources if the same objectives are pursued by multiple 
> enthusiasts without any coordination or communication.
> 
> If the Raku Council were to designate some channel, whether its an email 
> list, an IRC chat, or a github repo, or maybe a discord or slack or other 
> channel as the main community resource, then I would make sure I could read 
> all the messages there and stay in touch with what is happening.
> 
> Hence my request to the Raku council to consider improving communication 
> between developers and the wider Raku community.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Richard Hainsworth
> 
> aka finanalyst
> 
> 

Re: Please create a Raku community channel

[Tom Browder]

On Sat, Mar 13, 2021 at 08:12 Joseph Brenner  wrote:

> Richard Hainsworth  wrote:
>
> > I found out yesterday by the intervention of a regular participant in
> > the community that a new documentation website is being worked on.
>
> I should say, I was surprised to hear about that project also.  I knew
> about Richard Hainsworth's work, but not about what the other team was
> doing.
>
Same here, and I have a very vested interest since I contributed a working
solution to the pre-documentable doc site that kept the Languag sub-section
titles sorted which is very important IMHO for easier browsing.

Re: Please create a Raku community channel

[Joseph Brenner]

Richard Hainsworth  wrote:

> I found out yesterday by the intervention of a regular participant in
> the community that a new documentation website is being worked on.

I should say, I was surprised to hear about that project also.  I knew
about Richard Hainsworth's work, but not about what the other team was
doing.

Re: Please create a Raku community channel

[JJ Merelo]

This issue has been in the problem-solving repo for a long time
https://github.com/Raku/problem-solving/issues/246
So yes, we need something like this, if only to avoid confusion about what
plans/roadmaps there are, what's going to be done or simply to call for
elections.

El sáb, 13 mar 2021 a las 8:22, Richard Hainsworth ()
escribió:

> This is a request to the Raku Coordinating Council that was elected at
> the end of last year.
>
> Please name a channel where community wide plans or announcements are
> made. Or may be establish one.
>
> I found out yesterday by the intervention of a regular participant in
> the community that a new documentation website is being worked on.
>
> I joined a conversation on the raku-dev IRC and discovered that the
> plans are quite far established. Since I have been working full-time for
> three months on a project that could (not should!!) serve as the
> infra-structure of a new site, I was really quite surprised and I am
> sure many of you will understand it was jarring.
>
> I follow all the conversations on this email list. I have found it very
> difficult (due to my own technical incompetence relating to github) to
> set up my github preferences to get regular notification about issues. I
> have also found that the IRC chats are streams of consciousness that are
> difficult for me to manage.
>
> It seems however, that it is my fault that I was taken by surprise  by
> the news of a different documentation website and that I should have
> been following all the issues on the documentation repo or the problem
> solving repo.
>
> It *IS* reasonable for Raku developers and community organisers to make
> it the responsibility of a participant to follow conversations, but I
> would suggest that the current scattering of conversations, on the IRC
> chat, various github repositories, this email list, is not *optimal* for
> the development of a coherent Raku community. It is also - I would
> suggest - a waste of human resources if the same objectives are pursued
> by multiple enthusiasts without any coordination or communication.
>
> If the Raku Council were to designate some channel, whether its an email
> list, an IRC chat, or a github repo, or maybe a discord or slack or
> other channel as the main community resource, then I would make sure I
> could read all the messages there and stay in touch with what is happening.
>
> Hence my request to the Raku council to consider improving communication
> between developers and the wider Raku community.
>
> Regards
>
> Richard Hainsworth
>
> aka finanalyst
>
>
>

-- 
JJ

Re: Please create a Raku community channel

[Darren Duncan]

I agree, I would also like to know of this official channel and join it. -- 
Darren Duncan


On 2021-03-12 11:21 p.m., Richard Hainsworth wrote:
This is a request to the Raku Coordinating Council that was elected at the end 
of last year.


Please name a channel where community wide plans or announcements are made. Or 
may be establish one.


I found out yesterday by the intervention of a regular participant in the 
community that a new documentation website is being worked on.


I joined a conversation on the raku-dev IRC and discovered that the plans are 
quite far established. Since I have been working full-time for three months on a 
project that could (not should!!) serve as the infra-structure of a new site, I 
was really quite surprised and I am sure many of you will understand it was 
jarring.


I follow all the conversations on this email list. I have found it very 
difficult (due to my own technical incompetence relating to github) to set up my 
github preferences to get regular notification about issues. I have also found 
that the IRC chats are streams of consciousness that are difficult for me to 
manage.


It seems however, that it is my fault that I was taken by surprise  by the news 
of a different documentation website and that I should have been following all 
the issues on the documentation repo or the problem solving repo.


It *IS* reasonable for Raku developers and community organisers to make it the 
responsibility of a participant to follow conversations, but I would suggest 
that the current scattering of conversations, on the IRC chat, various github 
repositories, this email list, is not *optimal* for the development of a 
coherent Raku community. It is also - I would suggest - a waste of human 
resources if the same objectives are pursued by multiple enthusiasts without any 
coordination or communication.


If the Raku Council were to designate some channel, whether its an email list, 
an IRC chat, or a github repo, or maybe a discord or slack or other channel as 
the main community resource, then I would make sure I could read all the 
messages there and stay in touch with what is happening.


Hence my request to the Raku council to consider improving communication between 
developers and the wider Raku community.


Regards

Richard Hainsworth

aka finanalyst

Please create a Raku community channel

[Richard Hainsworth]

This is a request to the Raku Coordinating Council that was elected at 
the end of last year.


Please name a channel where community wide plans or announcements are 
made. Or may be establish one.


I found out yesterday by the intervention of a regular participant in 
the community that a new documentation website is being worked on.


I joined a conversation on the raku-dev IRC and discovered that the 
plans are quite far established. Since I have been working full-time for 
three months on a project that could (not should!!) serve as the 
infra-structure of a new site, I was really quite surprised and I am 
sure many of you will understand it was jarring.


I follow all the conversations on this email list. I have found it very 
difficult (due to my own technical incompetence relating to github) to 
set up my github preferences to get regular notification about issues. I 
have also found that the IRC chats are streams of consciousness that are 
difficult for me to manage.


It seems however, that it is my fault that I was taken by surprise  by 
the news of a different documentation website and that I should have 
been following all the issues on the documentation repo or the problem 
solving repo.


It *IS* reasonable for Raku developers and community organisers to make 
it the responsibility of a participant to follow conversations, but I 
would suggest that the current scattering of conversations, on the IRC 
chat, various github repositories, this email list, is not *optimal* for 
the development of a coherent Raku community. It is also - I would 
suggest - a waste of human resources if the same objectives are pursued 
by multiple enthusiasts without any coordination or communication.


If the Raku Council were to designate some channel, whether its an email 
list, an IRC chat, or a github repo, or maybe a discord or slack or 
other channel as the main community resource, then I would make sure I 
could read all the messages there and stay in touch with what is happening.


Hence my request to the Raku council to consider improving communication 
between developers and the wider Raku community.


Regards

Richard Hainsworth

aka finanalyst