Re: AR-EN Morphoanalytical Dictionary
On Tue, 2004-03-02 at 17:08, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: He forwarded Massoud's offensive message to me. So I decided I should reply on list. -- Not surprisingly, there is no email address from Massoud Hashemi on the web. Massoud was among the few Persian programmers of the BBS and early internet era. He is a friend of Reza Mahjurian that you (Behdad) know. I remember some communication with him in the early days of FarsiWeb. Of course he doesn't explain the source of his data file and its copyright status in his message, but I'm sure he has not *compiled* it himself. I consider his message offensive also. Next, using pirated software in Iran is completely legal. 1) Please refrain from using the term pirated for software (as per RMS). 2) Software copyright infringement is not legal in Iran. It is only that Iranian copyright law doesn't protect software first distributed outside Iran. So copying Zarnegar without the permission of the vendor is not legal in Iran. The software copyrights of any country other than Iran is NOT valid in Iran (yet). That is a better approximation, but still incorrect. The fact is one cannot claim copyright in Iran on any software first released outside Iran. On the other hand, the data in a dictionary IS copyrighted by Iranian laws. Very true. And the copyright is still valid, it will only become invalid after 30 years passes from the death of all authors. Of course we are assuming that the information comes from Aryanpour, and Massoud has not compiled it himself. [From Massoud's email] Words are for People. What is this supposed to mean?! There is no copyright law in iran so you can copy even $10,000 software for $1 and is funny when somebody talk about copyright there. There is copyright in Iran, and it has been in effect since long ago in case on books and other publications. And that law was even applicable to software before a software copyright law got passed in the early days of the seventh Islamic Republic Majlis, and had just got its aayin-naame approved by the Board of Ministsers. Ali, I really recommend investigation further into the source of the *information* as a compilation, not who encoded the bits. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: AR-EN Morphoanalytical Dictionary
Hi Behdad, i´m just asking my self that when you are talking about doing write and wrong thing, did you ever thought about asking me for a permission to put my forwarded mail in a Public mail-List? The second thing, I have no idea who you are and what you are looking for and to be honest , i think that is not my problem. Any way, i think if it is your wish, try to find out the truth. Contact the Colombia University, Mr. Safari, try to contact every body you want but, and maybe if you are really interested in truth contact Mr. Hashemi directly! i think you should be careful, to find out the truth is one thing but to denunciate people is something different. Just imagine your reproaches against Mr. Hashemi are wrong! You never contacted him directly, just imagine that the mail i send it to you was not from mr. Hashemi but from myself? Are you going to apologise also in that Mail List for your doing? Try to do what you think is the best Ali Am 02.03.2004 um 14:38 schrieb Behdad Esfahbod: [I'm CCing PersianComputing list] Background: I contacted Ali Samadi about the copyright status of the dictionary data that he's advertising on his site. I claimed that the data is from the AryanPour dictionary. Ali said that he will remove the dictionary until the status is cleared by Massoud Hashemi that has been the source of Ali's data. Later I found the dictionary back on Ali's site, and contacted him again. He forwarded Massoud's offensive message to me. So I decided I should reply on list. -- Not surprisingly, there is no email address from Massoud Hashemi on the web. Hi Ali, I'm not talking about the year the website or applications have been launched, but the data in dictionary. No one can deny that the AryanPour dictionary is done by Dr AryanPour and his brothers. Massoud can still say that he has been the source of computerized data. Do you believe that he has gathered the information himself? Or perhaps he payed a typist to type the AryanPour dictionary? You are being ignorant if you simply say I don't care. It is important to differentiate between a computer software, and a computerized text, and the data itself. In a computer dictionary software, the valuable data is the words and meanings, eg. the dictionary data, not the computer program that is written in FoxPro, Perl, CGI, etc. Second, he says that he does not know me. That may be true. But if he would have moved his fingers and do a Google search on my name, he would probably get some sense. Still I don't know why does it matter at all. I'm a Computer Science student at the University of Toronto, living in Toronto, Canada. I can't see how his observations on Sharif University and people in Iran applies to me. Next, using pirated software in Iran is completely legal. The software copyrights of any country other than Iran is NOT valid in Iran (yet). On the other hand, the data in a dictionary IS copyrighted by Iranian laws. Last but not least: I do have a WinXP Pro valid license, sold to me on my laptop, but I DO NOT HAVE WINDOWS INSTALLED, NOR HAVE THE INSTALLATION DISKS. NOR HAVE ANY OTHER NON-FREE SOFTWARE INSTALLED, OR I USE ANY. I leave the final decision to you. behdad PS. At least now we have someone that claims have been the source of infringing copyright of AryanPour dictionary data! I would contact AryanPour's lawyer about this as soon as I'm back in Tehran ;). On Mon, 23 Feb 2004, Ali Samadi wrote: well, i attach my request to Massoud and his Answer to me on this Letter, for me the story is now finished. Ali Ali Samadi Ahadi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Massoud i used the File wich you send it to me. and it is allready Online on: http://home.tiscali.de/ali.samadi/Downloads.html But i got an e-mail from Behdad Esfahbod. he is saying, that your Data file is copy of Aryanpoor Dictionary. Is that true? Because i don´t want to harm anybody's copy-write, i would be happy about a quick answer. Greetings Ali Massood Wrote: Hey Ali, I don't know him (Esfahbod) but seems his information is not true. If you check most of sites like www.farsidic.com or even www.aryanpour.com you will find creation date are after 2002! I wrote dictionary program in Sharif university 1988 with foxpro and that time i put on BBS of Shabeke Data that was for ministry of communication. When i came to USA in 1999 i wrote a cgi and put on my friend homepage Dr. Pedram Safari on Math.Columbia.Edu Server. Form that time to now i gave data and program to 10-20 developer like schoolnet in sharif and they use with same web design. I tell you a story, foxpro doesn't accept CHR(141) that is Alef Bakola like Aab, so data on that program has no alone A, and if you look at these sites you will find who copied from whom :)) so feel free to use data and program. You are a developer and you try to help others, don't listen to people that they just talk. Words are for People. These people copy any program for outside of iran and put in web
Re: AR-EN Morphoanalytical Dictionary
On Tue, 2004-03-02 at 18:35, Ali Samadi wrote: im just asking my self that when you are talking about doing write and wrong thing, Behdad was not talking about right and wrong. He was talking about legal and illegal. Copyright is considered bad by many people (me including), but copying other people's work is illegal in certain situations. did you ever thought about asking me for a permission to put my forwarded mail in a Public mail-List? This is for Behdad to answer, and it can't be undone easily unfortunately, but we can remove the email from the archives if you ask. As for mailing list policy, the maintainers appreciate asking for a sender's permission before forwarding a message to the list. One may lose his posting rights if he insists on repeating this, and we will agree to the removal of such a message from the archives, if anyone requests. Any way, i think if it is your wish, try to find out the truth. I believe it's also a problem for you. You may be doing illegal stuff (namely copying someone's copyrighted work without his permission), and you may want to avoid it to prevent yourself and your redistributers to be taken to court one day. Try to do what you think is the best Ali, Behdad may not be doing an ethically bad thing by forwarding a personal email to a public list, but he's giving you good legal advice on copyright matters. A developer, specially a free software developer, should know these matters, or ask people who know these things for advice. Otherwise, free software users will be taken to court, simply since they have trusted you when you said nobody but Massoud Hashemi claims copyright on the data file. roozbeh a guy from sharif edu ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: AR-EN Morphoanalytical Dictionary
By the way, who ARE the Aryanpour brothers? We see their data in online dictionaries all over the place. Do they not know or care? Of course, the printed versions keep getting reprinted so they get some benefit. But what is their story? Have they ever spoken on this subject? -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: AR-EN Morphoanalytical Dictionary
On Tue, 2004-03-02 at 20:23, C Bobroff wrote: Do they not know or care? There have been examples of weird court rulings in Iran in case of copyright, because some religious publishers, by asking the question in a tricky way, had led Ayatollah Khomeini into issuing a Fatwa that can be interpreted by the same people as copyrights are against the essence of Islam. You can guess the rest. There is also the problem of the maximum penalty, which in the case of normal intellectual property (forgive the term), like books and movies, is not criminal, so you can not get much by taking the matter to court. (That is not true with the Software Copyright Bill, which includes some jail sentences as a maximum penalty.) But what is their story? Have they ever spoken on this subject? Their story is the story of every author in a country with a problematic court system. Where you can't trace the original mass copier because of the corruption. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: AR-EN Morphoanalytical Dictionary
On Tue, 2 Mar 2004, Ali Samadi wrote: Hi Behdad, Hi, im just asking my self that when you are talking about doing write and wrong thing, As Roozbeh already said, I didn't talk about doing write or wrong. I left the decision to you. did you ever thought about asking me for a permission to put my forwarded mail in a Public mail-List? Yes, I definitely thought. But later I thought so what? He simply ignored me and bought Mossoud's rants and didn't replied me back about his decision. You were only enough nice that replied my mail. But in that reply you sent me Massoud's mail, saying without words I don't care. Here's you and him. And I only forwarded it to the list because he has insulted Iranian people in general, and a few people in particular that I know he knows in person: * Mr Reza Mahjurian, the ex-administrator of SchoolNet project. * Dr Yahya Tabesh, the head of Computing Department at Sharif University of Technology * Mr Ali Khanban, that I've seen they have jointly released one of those dictionaris (I may be wrong a bit, but not quite). The second thing, I have no idea who you are and what you are looking for and to You keep asking this. I've already said that I'm this student at that university. If you want to know about my income and who I sleep with, you are free to search internet for that too. Ok, I'm a proud Free Software developer. Perhaps the most influental Iranian Free Software developer ever (not counting FarsiTeX developers, as I'm talking about global influence, not local to Iran). Ok? And about what I want, no, I don't want money to shut up X-(. be honest , i think that is not my problem. And that's exactly my problem with you! I'm a Free Software developer, and you are putting us Free Software developers in problem by advertising your dictionary Free to download, while it is not really Free. I would be fine if you put a note like I don't know about the copyright status of the data in this dictionary, download at your own risk. Still you are distributing copyrighted data without permission. Any way, i think if it is your wish, try to find out the truth. To be honest, it is YOU that should find the truth, because you are the one distributing software. Right now, I decided to try my best to see what I can get out of this without spending a dollar and too much time. Contact the Colombia University, Mr. Safari, try to contact every body you want but, and maybe if you I would definitely do that. Mr Safari is a reasonable man. are really interested in truth contact Mr. Hashemi directly! I guess I said that I couldn't find his address at the first place. Please send me his address. i think you should be careful, to find out the truth is one thing but to denunciate people is something different. Seems like you still have the illusion that I'm looking for the truth and it's me that should know the truth. No, I know the truth. Same for almost everyone else in this list. It's YOU that should understand and take the truth, but you are hiding your head in the deep snow :(. Just imagine your reproaches against Mr. Hashemi are wrong! You never contacted him directly, just imagine that the mail i send it to you was not from mr. Hashemi but from myself? It cannot be the case, because the technical references he gave is out of your information. Are you going to apologise also in that Mail List for your doing? Do you really have a doubt??? Try to do what you think is the best That's why I'm following this thread that has absolutely no benefit for me. Please please please, just think a minute about what you are doing. behdad Ali ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: AR-EN Morphoanalytical Dictionary
In the middle of nowhere, suddenly a heated discussion (from the middle!) was dumped on list members! From what I understand, this is about copyright issue with regard of Arianpoor dictionary. Well, the printed version has been around for many years now and Arianpoor brothers should be the sons of the original author. It's been updated regularly and this is maybe carried on by the sons. The electronic version as I understand, is widely available on the internet for PC users. What Ali is trying to do is to provide to Macintosh users the same tools and utilities that are freely available for PC users. The issue of copyright should be discussed in another level and finger pointing to such a small community of Persian computing for such a large issue doesn't solve any problem and frankly it's not fair. Ali is not the source of copyright infringement (if there is any) and he provided the source of his database. All Ali wants to do is to provide some level of facilities to Mac users that PC users take them for granted. For grand social issues let's start with grand market. Iranian Macintosh User Group is too young, too small and too fragile - and by its singularity- too visible and shouldn't be targeted for such issues. Behnam On 2-Mar-04, at 11:53 AM, C Bobroff wrote: By the way, who ARE the Aryanpour brothers? We see their data in online dictionaries all over the place. Do they not know or care? Of course, the printed versions keep getting reprinted so they get some benefit. But what is their story? Have they ever spoken on this subject? -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: AR-EN Morphoanalytical Dictionary
Hi Behnam, My problem is that: There are people announcing an English-Persian dictionary Free to download, but, I, the Linux user that likes a dictionary on his machine, cannot use the same data. Why? Because the Mac distributer has simply closed his eyes on the copyright status of the data. Again, I said, I would not mind if Ali puts a proper note about the copyright status of the data below the download link in his site. But the main point, Behnam, is that, it's not a friendly game that you say Ok let him do it or not. You are being generous by spendings someone else's efforts! behdad On Tue, 2 Mar 2004, Behnam wrote: In the middle of nowhere, suddenly a heated discussion (from the middle!) was dumped on list members! From what I understand, this is about copyright issue with regard of Arianpoor dictionary. Well, the printed version has been around for many years now and Arianpoor brothers should be the sons of the original author. It's been updated regularly and this is maybe carried on by the sons. The electronic version as I understand, is widely available on the internet for PC users. What Ali is trying to do is to provide to Macintosh users the same tools and utilities that are freely available for PC users. The issue of copyright should be discussed in another level and finger pointing to such a small community of Persian computing for such a large issue doesn't solve any problem and frankly it's not fair. Ali is not the source of copyright infringement (if there is any) and he provided the source of his database. All Ali wants to do is to provide some level of facilities to Mac users that PC users take them for granted. For grand social issues let's start with grand market. Iranian Macintosh User Group is too young, too small and too fragile - and by its singularity- too visible and shouldn't be targeted for such issues. Behnam ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: AR-EN Morphoanalytical Dictionary
Hi, I still don't have any plan to release it but I may consider a free-based license in future. As this project is the core thecnology for Persian TTS, ASR and MT (Persian-English), I am planning to develope and work on one of these areas. Peyman --- Linguasoft [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Peyman, Thanks for your information. This is very interesting indeed. How do you plan to release your software? Can you imagine a similar open-source release as in case of the Arabic-English morphoanalytical dictionary? Best regards, Peter -Original Message- From: Peyman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 8:29 PM To: Linguasoft Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: AR-EN Morphoanalytical Dictionary Hi folks, --- Linguasoft [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear list members: An Arabic-English morphoanalytical dictionary (approx. 80,000 entries) can be downloaded from: http://www.PopDic.com/dict_arabic.htm The dictionary can be used with an application named Pop-Up Dictionary, a free trial version of which (supporting its main features) is available from the same site. The Arabic wordstock of this dictionary might also be useful for identifying Arabic loanwords in Persian context. I wonder if any similar dictionary (or corpus of words) exists for Persian? I developed an enriched Persian stem and affix dictionary as a part of my research project in 2000 which took nearly 6 months of hardworking (6 entries). I got my words from a big corpus that I created myself from 10 different sources. It was enriched with semantic coded information and POS. The program developed to use this data, worked well and could potentially analyze millions of Persian words and generate correct POSs. I have not used it for any new project yet but may use it for my thesis to develope another technology for Persian. This program is a must and start point for any further technology aimed for Persian language processing. Peyman __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: AR-EN Morphoanalytical Dictionary
Dear Peyman, Thanks for your information. This is very interesting indeed. How do you plan to release your software? Can you imagine a similar open-source release as in case of the Arabic-English morphoanalytical dictionary? Best regards, Peter -Original Message- From: Peyman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 8:29 PM To: Linguasoft Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: AR-EN Morphoanalytical Dictionary Hi folks, --- Linguasoft [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear list members: An Arabic-English morphoanalytical dictionary (approx. 80,000 entries) can be downloaded from: http://www.PopDic.com/dict_arabic.htm The dictionary can be used with an application named Pop-Up Dictionary, a free trial version of which (supporting its main features) is available from the same site. The Arabic wordstock of this dictionary might also be useful for identifying Arabic loanwords in Persian context. I wonder if any similar dictionary (or corpus of words) exists for Persian? I developed an enriched Persian stem and affix dictionary as a part of my research project in 2000 which took nearly 6 months of hardworking (6 entries). I got my words from a big corpus that I created myself from 10 different sources. It was enriched with semantic coded information and POS. The program developed to use this data, worked well and could potentially analyze millions of Persian words and generate correct POSs. I have not used it for any new project yet but may use it for my thesis to develope another technology for Persian. This program is a must and start point for any further technology aimed for Persian language processing. Peyman __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
AR-EN Morphoanalytical Dictionary
Dear list members: An Arabic-English morphoanalytical dictionary (approx. 80,000 entries) can be downloaded from: http://www.PopDic.com/dict_arabic.htm The dictionary can be used with an application named Pop-Up Dictionary, a free trial version of which (supporting its main features) is available from the same site. The Arabic wordstock of this dictionary might also be useful for identifying Arabic loanwords in Persian context. I wonder if any similar dictionary (or corpus of words) exists for Persian? Best regards, Peter E. Hauer Linguasoft Vienna, Austria ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
