Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 12:25 PM, Leonardo Francalanci m_li...@yahoo.it wrote: Well, I sort of assumed the design was OK, too, but the more we talk about this WAL-logging stuff, the less convinced I am that I really understand the problem. :-( I see. In fact, I think nobody thought about restart points... To sum up: 1) everything seems ok when in the wal_level = minimal case. In this case, we fsync everything and at transaction commit we remove the init fork; in case of a crash, we don't reply anything (as nothing has been written to the log), and we remove the main fork as we do now. Yeah, that seems like it should work. 2) in the wal_level != minimal case things become more complicated: if the standby reaches a restart point and then crashes we are in trouble: it would remove the main fork at startup, and would reply only a portion of the table. I guess the same applies to the master too? I mean: if we log HEAP_XLOG_NEWPAGEs, reach a checkpoint, and then crash, at server restart the main fork would be deleted, and the pages logged on the log couldn't be replayed. But the problem on the master can be removed using another type of log instead of HEAP_XLOG_NEWPAGE (to be replayed by the standbys only). I think that's about right, except that I feel we're missing some trick here that's needed to make all this work out nicely. Somehow we need to maintain some state that an unlogged-logged conversion is in progress; that state needs to then get cleaned up at commit or abort time (including implicit abort). -- Robert Haas EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
I think we need a detailed design document for how this is all going to work. We need to not only handle the master properly but also handle the slave properly. Consider, for example, the case where the slave begins to replay the transaction, reaches a restartpoint after replaying some of the new pages, and then crashes. If the subsequent restart from the restartpoint blows away the main relation fork, we're hosed. I fear we're plunging into implementation details without having a good overall design in mind first. As I said in my first post, I'm basing the patch on the post: http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2011-01/msg00315.php So I assumed the design was ok (except for the stray file around on a standby case, which has been discussed earlier on this thread). If there are things to be discussed/analyzed (I guess the restart point thing is one of those) we can do it... but I thought that the whole design was somehow in place Leonardo -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 3:39 AM, Leonardo Francalanci m_li...@yahoo.it wrote: I think we need a detailed design document for how this is all going to work. We need to not only handle the master properly but also handle the slave properly. Consider, for example, the case where the slave begins to replay the transaction, reaches a restartpoint after replaying some of the new pages, and then crashes. If the subsequent restart from the restartpoint blows away the main relation fork, we're hosed. I fear we're plunging into implementation details without having a good overall design in mind first. As I said in my first post, I'm basing the patch on the post: http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2011-01/msg00315.php So I assumed the design was ok (except for the stray file around on a standby case, which has been discussed earlier on this thread). Well, I sort of assumed the design was OK, too, but the more we talk about this WAL-logging stuff, the less convinced I am that I really understand the problem. :-( -- Robert Haas EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
Well, I sort of assumed the design was OK, too, but the more we talk about this WAL-logging stuff, the less convinced I am that I really understand the problem. :-( I see. In fact, I think nobody thought about restart points... To sum up: 1) everything seems ok when in the wal_level = minimal case. In this case, we fsync everything and at transaction commit we remove the init fork; in case of a crash, we don't reply anything (as nothing has been written to the log), and we remove the main fork as we do now. 2) in the wal_level != minimal case things become more complicated: if the standby reaches a restart point and then crashes we are in trouble: it would remove the main fork at startup, and would reply only a portion of the table. I guess the same applies to the master too? I mean: if we log HEAP_XLOG_NEWPAGEs, reach a checkpoint, and then crash, at server restart the main fork would be deleted, and the pages logged on the log couldn't be replayed. But the problem on the master can be removed using another type of log instead of HEAP_XLOG_NEWPAGE (to be replayed by the standbys only). Is this analysis correct? Leonardo -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
Why is it necessary to replay the operation only on the slave? Can we just use XLOG_HEAP_NEWPAGE? Uh, I don't know why but I thought I shouldn't log a page on the master, since all the pages are already there and fsync-ed. But if it makes no harm, I can easily use XLOG_HEAP_NEWPAGE (of course, only in the wal_level != minimal case). -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 4:29 AM, Noah Misch n...@leadboat.com wrote: I don't think it is *necessary*. If we're replaying WAL on a master, we'll also be resetting unlogged relations after recovery; what we write or do not write to them in the mean time has no functional impact. Seemed like a sensible optimization, but maybe it's premature. Some jiggering may be necessary, because right now we remove the main forks at the start of recovery and repopulate them at the end. It's not immediately obvious to me that that's going to work well with HEAP_XLOG_NEWPAGE, but then it's not immediately obvious to me that it's going to work well with a new WAL record type, either. I think we need a detailed design document for how this is all going to work. We need to not only handle the master properly but also handle the slave properly. Consider, for example, the case where the slave begins to replay the transaction, reaches a restartpoint after replaying some of the new pages, and then crashes. If the subsequent restart from the restartpoint blows away the main relation fork, we're hosed. I fear we're plunging into implementation details without having a good overall design in mind first. -- Robert Haas EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 09:33:09PM -0400, Robert Haas wrote: On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 6:19 AM, Noah Misch n...@leadboat.com wrote: So, it's ok to have a log item that is replayed only if WalRcvInProgress() is true? No, that checks for WAL streaming in particular. ?A log-shipping standby needs the same treatment. Is it a correct approach? I couldn't find any other way to find out if we are in a standby or a master... InArchiveRecovery looks like the right thing, but it's currently static to xlog.c. ?Perhaps exporting that is the way to go. Why is it necessary to replay the operation only on the slave? Can we just use XLOG_HEAP_NEWPAGE? I don't think it is *necessary*. If we're replaying WAL on a master, we'll also be resetting unlogged relations after recovery; what we write or do not write to them in the mean time has no functional impact. Seemed like a sensible optimization, but maybe it's premature. nm -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 6:19 AM, Noah Misch n...@leadboat.com wrote: So, it's ok to have a log item that is replayed only if WalRcvInProgress() is true? No, that checks for WAL streaming in particular. A log-shipping standby needs the same treatment. Is it a correct approach? I couldn't find any other way to find out if we are in a standby or a master... InArchiveRecovery looks like the right thing, but it's currently static to xlog.c. Perhaps exporting that is the way to go. Why is it necessary to replay the operation only on the slave? Can we just use XLOG_HEAP_NEWPAGE? -- Robert Haas EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 09:37:20AM +0100, Leonardo Francalanci wrote: I'll try to sum up what I understood: 1) the standby keeps the lock, so no problem with stray files coming from the unlogged-logged log reply, as the table can't be read during the operation 2) calling ResetUnloggedRelations before ProcArrayApplyRecoveryInfo would remove the problem of the stray files on the standby in case of master crash before commit/abort 3) promoting the standby shouldn't be an issue, since ResetUnloggedRelations is already called in ShutdownRecoveryTransactionEnvironment All correct, as far as I can tell. Now, to move forward, some questions: - the patch is missing the send all table pages to the standby part; is there some code I can use as base? Nothing comes to mind as especially similar. I guess I have to generate some special log type that is only played by standby servers. What you described in your followup mail seemed reasonable. - on the standby, the commit part should be played as it is on the master (that is, removing the INIT fork). The abort case is different though: it would mean doing nothing on the master, while removing every forks but the INIT fork on the standby. Would it be ok to add to xl_xact_abort a new array of RelFileNode(s), where for each one at abort all the forks, except the init fork, have to be deleted by the standby (while the master shouldn't do anything with them)? I bet there's a cleaner solution... Your use less space in xl_xact_commit patch seems to be going in a good direction here. It would probably also be okay to do a ResetUnloggedRelations() on the standby at every abort of a transaction that had started an UNLOGGED - LOGGED conversion. That is, just a flag might be enough. nm -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
From: Noah Misch n...@leadboat.com - the patch is missing the send all table pages to the standby part; is there some code I can use as base? Nothing comes to mind as especially similar. I guess I have to generate some special log type that is only played by standby servers. What you described in your followup mail seemed reasonable. So, it's ok to have a log item that is replayed only if WalRcvInProgress() is true? Is it a correct approach? I couldn't find any other way to find out if we are in a standby or a master... - on the standby, the commit part should be played as it is on the master (that is, removing the INIT fork). The abort case is different though: it would mean doing nothing on the master, while removing every forks but the INIT fork on the standby. Would it be ok to add to xl_xact_abort a new array of RelFileNode(s), where for each one at abort all the forks, except the init fork, have to be deleted by the standby (while the master shouldn't do anything with them)? I bet there's a cleaner solution... Your use less space in xl_xact_commit patch seems to be going in a good direction here. It would probably also be okay to do a ResetUnloggedRelations() on the standby at every abort of a transaction that had started an UNLOGGED - LOGGED conversion. That is, just a flag might be enough. ok, but that would mean that a transaction that aborts a conversion would try to reset all unlogged relations (traversing all the FS)... I don't know if that's acceptable performance-wise. -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 10:49:13AM +0100, Leonardo Francalanci wrote: From: Noah Misch n...@leadboat.com - the patch is missing the send all table pages to the standby part; is there some code I can use as base? Nothing comes to mind as especially similar. I guess I have to generate some special log type that is only played by standby servers. What you described in your followup mail seemed reasonable. So, it's ok to have a log item that is replayed only if WalRcvInProgress() is true? No, that checks for WAL streaming in particular. A log-shipping standby needs the same treatment. Is it a correct approach? I couldn't find any other way to find out if we are in a standby or a master... InArchiveRecovery looks like the right thing, but it's currently static to xlog.c. Perhaps exporting that is the way to go. - on the standby, the commit part should be played as it is on the master (that is, removing the INIT fork). The abort case is different though: it would mean doing nothing on the master, while removing every forks but the INIT fork on the standby. Would it be ok to add to xl_xact_abort a new array of RelFileNode(s), where for each one at abort all the forks, except the init fork, have to be deleted by the standby (while the master shouldn't do anything with them)? I bet there's a cleaner solution... Your use less space in xl_xact_commit patch seems to be going in a good direction here. It would probably also be okay to do a ResetUnloggedRelations() on the standby at every abort of a transaction that had started an UNLOGGED - LOGGED conversion. That is, just a flag might be enough. ok, but that would mean that a transaction that aborts a conversion would try to reset all unlogged relations (traversing all the FS)... I don't know if that's acceptable performance-wise. I'm not sure, either, but I don't figure such operations will be at all common. nm -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
I'll try to sum up what I understood: 1) the standby keeps the lock, so no problem with stray files coming from the unlogged-logged log reply, as the table can't be read during the operation 2) calling ResetUnloggedRelations before ProcArrayApplyRecoveryInfo would remove the problem of the stray files on the standby in case of master crash before commit/abort 3) promoting the standby shouldn't be an issue, since ResetUnloggedRelations is already called in ShutdownRecoveryTransactionEnvironment Now, to move forward, some questions: - the patch is missing the send all table pages to the standby part; is there some code I can use as base? I guess I have to generate some special log type that is only played by standby servers. - on the standby, the commit part should be played as it is on the master (that is, removing the INIT fork). The abort case is different though: it would mean doing nothing on the master, while removing every forks but the INIT fork on the standby. Would it be ok to add to xl_xact_abort a new array of RelFileNode(s), where for each one at abort all the forks, except the init fork, have to be deleted by the standby (while the master shouldn't do anything with them)? I bet there's a cleaner solution... Leonardo -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
- the patch is missing the send all table pages to the standby part; is there some code I can use as base? I guess I have to generate some special log type that is only played by standby servers. Maybe I could use log_newpage, but instead of XLOG_HEAP_NEWPAGE I could use something like XLOG_HEAP_COPYPAGE; and in heap_redo, in the XLOG_HEAP_COPYPAGE case, call heap_xlog_newpage only in case we're in standby... -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 04:02:59PM +0100, Leonardo Francalanci wrote: By the time the startup process releases the AccessExclusiveLock acquired by the proposed UNLOGGED - normal conversion process, that relfilenode needs to be either fully copied or unlinked all over again. (Alternately, find some other way to make sure queries don't read the half-copied file.) About this issue: how are AccessExclusiveLocks released on the standby when the master crashes? I assume those locks remain. It wouldn't be safe to release them; a master crash is just one kind of WAL receipt latency. But somehow when the master restarts the standby gets notified it has the unlock??? When you promote the standby, though, ShutdownRecoveryTransactionEnvironment() releases the locks. Ok; then the problem in the UNLOGGED - normal conversion is that: 1) the master and the standby acquire a lock on the table 2) the master starts sending the pages to the standby 3) the master crashes before committing up until here no problems, as the standby still has the lock on the table. 4) when the master restarts, it removes all the fork for rels with INIT forks; are those deletes sent to the standby? And, if yes, would those be replayed by the standby *before* releasing the lock? If the answer is yes, then I don't think we have a problem... but I think that at the moment those unlogged-table-forks deletes aren't sent at all. (When promoting the standby, we could have ShutdownRecoveryTransactionEnvironment() remove all the fork for rels with INIT forks before releasing the locks) Leonardo -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 01:52:46PM +0100, Leonardo Francalanci wrote: I'd guess some WAL record arising from the post-crash master restart makes the standby do so. When a crash isn't involved, the commit or abort record is that signal. You could test and find out how it happens after a master crash with a procedure like this: 1. Start a master and standby on the same machine. 2. Connect to master; CREATE TABLE t(); BEGIN; ALTER TABLE t ADD c int; 3. kill -9 -`head -n1 $master_PGDATA/postmaster.pid` 4. Connect to standby and confirm that t is still locked. 5. Attach debugger to standby startup process and set breakpoints on StandbyReleaseLocks and StandbyReleaseLocksMany. 6. Restart master. Well yes, based on the test the stack is something like: StandbyReleaseLocksMany StandbyReleaseOldLocks ProcArrayApplyRecoveryInfo xlog_redo It's not very clear to me what ProcArrayApplyRecoveryInfo does (not too familiar with the standby part I guess) but I see it's called by xlog_redo in the info == XLOG_CHECKPOINT_SHUTDOWN case and by StartupXLOG. But I don't know if calling ResetUnloggedRelations before the call to ProcArrayApplyRecoveryInfo in xlog_redo makes sense... if it makes sense, it would solve the problem of the stray files in the master crashing case I guess? It would solve the problem, but it would mean resetting unlogged relations on the standby at every shutdown checkpoint. That's probably not a performance problem, but it is a hack. Offhand, I'd add a new smgr WAL record issued by ResetUnloggedRelations() when called with UNLOGGED_RELATION_CLEANUP. Another, simpler, idea is to split XLOG_CHECKPOINT_SHUTDOWN into XLOG_CHECKPOINT_SHUTDOWN and XLOG_CHECKPOINT_END_OF_RECOVERY, mirroring CreateCheckPoint()'s distinction. (Given that I regularly lack good taste, you might want to wait for other people to weigh in before spending too much time on that.) When you promote the standby, though, ShutdownRecoveryTransactionEnvironment() releases the locks. If I understand the code, ResetUnloggedRelations is called before ShutdownRecoveryTransactionEnvironment, so that part shouldn't be an issue Seems correct. nm -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 11:13 AM, Noah Misch n...@leadboat.com wrote: It would solve the problem, but it would mean resetting unlogged relations on the standby at every shutdown checkpoint. That's probably not a performance problem, but it is a hack. I haven't thought about this too deeply, but I'm not sure I agree that's a hack. Why do you think it is? -- Robert Haas EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 11:42:03AM -0400, Robert Haas wrote: On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 11:13 AM, Noah Misch n...@leadboat.com wrote: It would solve the problem, but it would mean resetting unlogged relations on the standby at every shutdown checkpoint. ?That's probably not a performance problem, but it is a hack. I haven't thought about this too deeply, but I'm not sure I agree that's a hack. Why do you think it is? It would make the standby reset unlogged relations on both regular shutdowns and crashes, while the master only does so on crashes. This creates no functional hazard since unlogged relation contents are never accessible during hot standby. It seems like a hack to rely on that fact at any distance, but perhaps a comment is enough to assuage that. nm -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 3:24 PM, Noah Misch n...@leadboat.com wrote: On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 11:42:03AM -0400, Robert Haas wrote: On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 11:13 AM, Noah Misch n...@leadboat.com wrote: It would solve the problem, but it would mean resetting unlogged relations on the standby at every shutdown checkpoint. ?That's probably not a performance problem, but it is a hack. I haven't thought about this too deeply, but I'm not sure I agree that's a hack. Why do you think it is? It would make the standby reset unlogged relations on both regular shutdowns and crashes, while the master only does so on crashes. This creates no functional hazard since unlogged relation contents are never accessible during hot standby. It seems like a hack to rely on that fact at any distance, but perhaps a comment is enough to assuage that. I think I'd be more comfortable with that route if it seems like it'll work. Whacking around the recovery code always makes me a little nervous about bugs, since it's easy to fail to notice the problem until something Bad happens. -- Robert Haas EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 03:53:12PM -0400, Robert Haas wrote: On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 3:24 PM, Noah Misch n...@leadboat.com wrote: On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 11:42:03AM -0400, Robert Haas wrote: On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 11:13 AM, Noah Misch n...@leadboat.com wrote: It would solve the problem, but it would mean resetting unlogged relations on the standby at every shutdown checkpoint. ?That's probably not a performance problem, but it is a hack. I haven't thought about this too deeply, but I'm not sure I agree that's a hack. ?Why do you think it is? It would make the standby reset unlogged relations on both regular shutdowns and crashes, while the master only does so on crashes. ?This creates no functional hazard since unlogged relation contents are never accessible during hot standby. It seems like a hack to rely on that fact at any distance, but perhaps a comment is enough to assuage that. I think I'd be more comfortable with that route if it seems like it'll work. Whacking around the recovery code always makes me a little nervous about bugs, since it's easy to fail to notice the problem until something Bad happens. No remaining objection from me, then. Thanks for reviewing. -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
By the time the startup process releases the AccessExclusiveLock acquired by the proposed UNLOGGED - normal conversion process, that relfilenode needs to be either fully copied or unlinked all over again. (Alternately, find some other way to make sure queries don't read the half-copied file.) About this issue: how are AccessExclusiveLocks released on the standby when the master crashes? -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 04:02:59PM +0100, Leonardo Francalanci wrote: By the time the startup process releases the AccessExclusiveLock acquired by the proposed UNLOGGED - normal conversion process, that relfilenode needs to be either fully copied or unlinked all over again. (Alternately, find some other way to make sure queries don't read the half-copied file.) About this issue: how are AccessExclusiveLocks released on the standby when the master crashes? I assume those locks remain. It wouldn't be safe to release them; a master crash is just one kind of WAL receipt latency. When you promote the standby, though, ShutdownRecoveryTransactionEnvironment() releases the locks. -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
Yes, that seems like a very appealing approach. There is plenty of bit-space available in xinfo, and we could reserve a bit each for nrels, nsubxacts, and nmsgs, with set meaning that an integer count of that item is present and clear meaning that the count is omitted from the structure (and zero). This will probably require a bit of tricky code reorganization so I think it should be done separately from the main patch. Ok, I'll try and send a patch with this change only. BTW xinfo is 32 bit long, but I think only 2 bits are used right now? I think I can make it a 8 bits, and add another 8 bits for nrels, nsubxacts, and nmsgs and the new thing. That should save another 2 bytes, while leaving space for extention. Or we can make it a 8 bits only, but only 2 bits would be left empty for future extentions; I don't know if we care about it... Leonardo -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 3:35 AM, Leonardo Francalanci m_li...@yahoo.it wrote: Yes, that seems like a very appealing approach. There is plenty of bit-space available in xinfo, and we could reserve a bit each for nrels, nsubxacts, and nmsgs, with set meaning that an integer count of that item is present and clear meaning that the count is omitted from the structure (and zero). This will probably require a bit of tricky code reorganization so I think it should be done separately from the main patch. Ok, I'll try and send a patch with this change only. BTW xinfo is 32 bit long, but I think only 2 bits are used right now? I think I can make it a 8 bits, and add another 8 bits for nrels, nsubxacts, and nmsgs and the new thing. That should save another 2 bytes, while leaving space for extention. Or we can make it a 8 bits only, but only 2 bits would be left empty for future extentions; I don't know if we care about it... I don't think making xinfo shorter will save anything, because whatever follows it is going to be a 4-byte quantity and therefore 4-byte aligned. -- Robert Haas EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
I don't think making xinfo shorter will save anything, because whatever follows it is going to be a 4-byte quantity and therefore 4-byte aligned. ups, didn't notice it. I'll splitxinfo into: uint16 xinfo; uint16 presentFlags; I guess it helps with the reading? I mean, instead of having a single uint32? -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 8:03 AM, Leonardo Francalanci m_li...@yahoo.it wrote: I don't think making xinfo shorter will save anything, because whatever follows it is going to be a 4-byte quantity and therefore 4-byte aligned. ups, didn't notice it. I'll split xinfo into: uint16 xinfo; uint16 presentFlags; I guess it helps with the reading? I mean, instead of having a single uint32? My feeling would be just keep it as uint32. Breaking it up into chunks doesn't seem useful to me. -- Robert Haas EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
Excerpts from Robert Haas's message of vie may 06 23:25:09 -0300 2011: On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 4:13 AM, Leonardo Francalanci m_li...@yahoo.it wrote: Maybe you should change xl_act_commit to have a separate list of rels to drop the init fork for (instead of mixing those with the list of files to drop as a whole). I tried to follow your suggestion, thank you very much. I have to admit I don't like this approach very much. I can't see adding 4 bytes to every commit record for this feature. Hmm, yeah. Maybe we can add a flags int8 somewhere in that struct and set a bit in it if nrels, nsubxacts, nmsgs and respective arrays are present. That would save some int's that are already in there. -- Álvaro Herrera alvhe...@commandprompt.com The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Alvaro Herrera alvhe...@commandprompt.com wrote: Excerpts from Robert Haas's message of vie may 06 23:25:09 -0300 2011: On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 4:13 AM, Leonardo Francalanci m_li...@yahoo.it wrote: Maybe you should change xl_act_commit to have a separate list of rels to drop the init fork for (instead of mixing those with the list of files to drop as a whole). I tried to follow your suggestion, thank you very much. I have to admit I don't like this approach very much. I can't see adding 4 bytes to every commit record for this feature. Hmm, yeah. Maybe we can add a flags int8 somewhere in that struct and set a bit in it if nrels, nsubxacts, nmsgs and respective arrays are present. That would save some int's that are already in there. Yes, that seems like a very appealing approach. There is plenty of bit-space available in xinfo, and we could reserve a bit each for nrels, nsubxacts, and nmsgs, with set meaning that an integer count of that item is present and clear meaning that the count is omitted from the structure (and zero). This will probably require a bit of tricky code reorganization so I think it should be done separately from the main patch. With that done, then it's not a big deal for the main patch to add in one more array that will normally get omitted. And in the process, we can save 12 bytes on every commit record in the common case, which is quite appealing: I don't expect a huge performance gain, but a penny saved is a penny earned. -- Robert Haas EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 4:13 AM, Leonardo Francalanci m_li...@yahoo.it
wrote:
Maybe you should change xl_act_commit to have a separate list of rels to
drop the init fork for (instead of mixing those with the list of files
to
drop as a whole).
I tried to follow your suggestion, thank you very much.
I have to admit I don't like this approach very much. I can't see
adding 4 bytes to every commit record for this feature.
I understand.
What if, in xl_xact_commit, instead of
RelFileNode xnodes
I use another struct for xnodes, something like:
{
RelFileNode xnode;
boolonlyInitFork;
}
That would increase the commit record size only when there are
RelFileNode(s) to drop at commit. So, instead of 4 bytes in
every commit, there are wasted bytes when the commit record
contains deleted permanent relations (that should happen much
less). I'm open to suggestions here...
3) Should we have a cascade option? I don't know if I have to handle
inherited tables and other dependent objects
Look at the way ALTER TABLE [ONLY] works for other action types, and copy it.
Ok
Thank you very much
Leonardo
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Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com writes: On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 10:25 PM, Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com wrote: ERROR: constraints on permanent tables may reference only permanent tables HINT: constraint %s Argh, hit send too soon. HINT: constraint %s references table %s nitpick That looks like a DETAIL, not a HINT. Also see message style guide about how that should be a complete sentence. /nitpick regards, tom lane -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 4:13 AM, Leonardo Francalanci m_li...@yahoo.it wrote: Maybe you should change xl_act_commit to have a separate list of rels to drop the init fork for (instead of mixing those with the list of files to drop as a whole). I tried to follow your suggestion, thank you very much. I have to admit I don't like this approach very much. I can't see adding 4 bytes to every commit record for this feature. 3) Should we have a cascade option? I don't know if I have to handle inherited tables and other dependent objects Look at the way ALTER TABLE [ONLY] works for other action types, and copy it. 4) During the check for dependencies problems, I stop as soon as I find an error; would it be enough? It's a bit awkwardly phrased the way you have it. I would suggest something like: ERROR: constraints on permanent tables may reference only permanent tables HINT: constraint %s -- Robert Haas EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 10:25 PM, Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com wrote: ERROR: constraints on permanent tables may reference only permanent tables HINT: constraint %s Argh, hit send too soon. HINT: constraint %s references table %s -- Robert Haas EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
Maybe you should change xl_act_commit to have a separate list of rels to drop the init fork for (instead of mixing those with the list of files to drop as a whole). I tried to follow your suggestion, thank you very much. Here's a first attempt at the patch. I tested it with: create table forei (v integer primary key); insert into forei select * from generate_series(1,1); create unlogged table pun (c integer primary key, constraint con foreign key (c) references forei(v)); insert into pun select * from generate_series(1,1); alter table pun set logged; then shutdown the master with immediate: bin/pg_ctl -D data -m immediate stop bin/pg_ctl -D data start and pun still has data: select * from pun where c=100; Question/comments: 1) it's a very-first-stage patch; I would need to know if something is *very* wrong before cleaning it. 2) there are some things I implemented using a logic like let's see how it worked 10 lines above, and I'll do the same. For example, the 2PC stuff is totally copied from the other places, I have no idea if the code makes sense at all (how can I test it?) 3) Should we have a cascade option? I don't know if I have to handle inherited tables and other dependent objects 4) During the check for dependencies problems, I stop as soon as I find an error; would it be enough? Leonardo unl2log_20110422.patch Description: Binary data -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
I think I coded a very basic version of the UNLOGGED to LOGGED patch
(only wal_level=minimal case for the moment).
To remove the INIT fork, I changed somehow PendingRelDelete to have
a flag bool onlyInitFork so that the delete would remove only the INIT
fork at commit.
Everything works (note the quotes...) except in the case of not-clean
shutdown (-m immediate to pg_ctl stop). The reason is that the replay
code doesn't have any idea that it has to remove only the INIT fork: it will
remove ALL forks; so at the end of the redo procedure (at startup, after
a pg_ctl -m immediate stop) the table doesn't have any forks at all.
See xact_redo_commit:
/* Make sure files supposed to be dropped are dropped */
for (i = 0; i xlrec-nrels; i++)
{
[...]
for (fork = 0; fork = MAX_FORKNUM; fork++)
{
if (smgrexists(srel, fork))
{
XLogDropRelation(xlrec-xnodes[i], fork);
smgrdounlink(srel, fork, true);
}
}
smgrclose(srel);
}
[...]
Should I change xl_xact_commit in order to have, instead of:
/* Array of RelFileNode(s) to drop at commit */
RelFileNode xnodes[1]; /* VARIABLE LENGTH ARRAY */
an array of structures such as:
{
RelFileNode relfilenode;
bool onlyInitFork;
}
???
Otherwise I don't know how to tell the redo commit code to delete only
the INIT fork, instead of all the relation forks...
(maybe I'm doing all wrong: I'm open to any kind of suggestion here...)
Leonardo
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Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
Excerpts from Leonardo Francalanci's message of lun abr 18 09:36:13 -0300 2011: I think I coded a very basic version of the UNLOGGED to LOGGED patch (only wal_level=minimal case for the moment). To remove the INIT fork, I changed somehow PendingRelDelete to have a flag bool onlyInitFork so that the delete would remove only the INIT fork at commit. Everything works (note the quotes...) except in the case of not-clean shutdown (-m immediate to pg_ctl stop). The reason is that the replay code doesn't have any idea that it has to remove only the INIT fork: it will remove ALL forks; so at the end of the redo procedure (at startup, after a pg_ctl -m immediate stop) the table doesn't have any forks at all. Maybe you should change xl_act_commit to have a separate list of rels to drop the init fork for (instead of mixing those with the list of files to drop as a whole). -- Álvaro Herrera alvhe...@commandprompt.com The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
If the master crashes while a transaction that used CREATE TABLE is unfinished, both the master and the standby will indefinitely retain identical, stray (not referenced by pg_class) files. The catalogs do reference the relfilenode of each unlogged relation; currently, that relfilenode never exists on a standby while that standby is accepting connections. By the time the startup process releases the AccessExclusiveLock acquired by the proposed UNLOGGED - normal conversion process, that relfilenode needs to be either fully copied or unlinked all over again. (Alternately, find some other way to make sure queries don't read the half-copied file.) In effect, the problem is that the relfilenode is *not* stray, so its final state does need to be well-defined. Oh, right. Maybe we should just put in a rule that a server in Hot Standby mode won't ever try to read from an unlogged table (right now we count on the fact that there will be nothing to read). If we crash before copying the whole file, it won't matter, because the catalogs won't have been updated, so we'll refuse to look at it anyway. And we have to reinitialize on entering normal running anyway, so we can clean it up then. Ok then... I'll try to code the easy version first (the wal_level=minimal case) and then we'll see Leonardo -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
But re-reading it, I don't understand: what's the difference in creating a new regular table and crashing before emitting the abort record, and converting an unlogged table to logged and crashing before emitting the abort record? How do the standby servers handle a CREATE TABLE followed by a ROLLBACK if the master crashes before writing the abort record? I thought that too would leave a stray file around on a standby. I've been thinking about the same thing. And AFAICS, your analysis is correct, though there may be some angle to it I'm not seeing. Anyone else? I would like to know if what I'm trying to do is, in fact, possible... otherwise starting with thewal_level=minimal case first will be wasted effort in case the other cases can't be integrated somehow... Leonardo -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 11:41:18AM +0100, Leonardo Francalanci wrote: But re-reading it, I don't understand: what's the difference in creating a new regular table and crashing before emitting the abort record, and converting an unlogged table to logged and crashing before emitting the abort record? How do the standby servers handle a CREATE TABLE followed by a ROLLBACK if the master crashes before writing the abort record? I thought that too would leave a stray file around on a standby. I've been thinking about the same thing. And AFAICS, your analysis is correct, though there may be some angle to it I'm not seeing. Anyone else? I would like to know if what I'm trying to do is, in fact, possible... otherwise starting with thewal_level=minimal case first will be wasted effort in case the other cases can't be integrated somehow... If the master crashes while a transaction that used CREATE TABLE is unfinished, both the master and the standby will indefinitely retain identical, stray (not referenced by pg_class) files. The catalogs do reference the relfilenode of each unlogged relation; currently, that relfilenode never exists on a standby while that standby is accepting connections. By the time the startup process releases the AccessExclusiveLock acquired by the proposed UNLOGGED - normal conversion process, that relfilenode needs to be either fully copied or unlinked all over again. (Alternately, find some other way to make sure queries don't read the half-copied file.) In effect, the problem is that the relfilenode is *not* stray, so its final state does need to be well-defined. nm -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 10:29 AM, Noah Misch n...@leadboat.com wrote: On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 11:41:18AM +0100, Leonardo Francalanci wrote: But re-reading it, I don't understand: what's the difference in creating a new regular table and crashing before emitting the abort record, and converting an unlogged table to logged and crashing before emitting the abort record? How do the standby servers handle a CREATE TABLE followed by a ROLLBACK if the master crashes before writing the abort record? I thought that too would leave a stray file around on a standby. I've been thinking about the same thing. And AFAICS, your analysis is correct, though there may be some angle to it I'm not seeing. Anyone else? I would like to know if what I'm trying to do is, in fact, possible... otherwise starting with thewal_level=minimal case first will be wasted effort in case the other cases can't be integrated somehow... If the master crashes while a transaction that used CREATE TABLE is unfinished, both the master and the standby will indefinitely retain identical, stray (not referenced by pg_class) files. The catalogs do reference the relfilenode of each unlogged relation; currently, that relfilenode never exists on a standby while that standby is accepting connections. By the time the startup process releases the AccessExclusiveLock acquired by the proposed UNLOGGED - normal conversion process, that relfilenode needs to be either fully copied or unlinked all over again. (Alternately, find some other way to make sure queries don't read the half-copied file.) In effect, the problem is that the relfilenode is *not* stray, so its final state does need to be well-defined. Oh, right. Maybe we should just put in a rule that a server in Hot Standby mode won't ever try to read from an unlogged table (right now we count on the fact that there will be nothing to read). If we crash before copying the whole file, it won't matter, because the catalogs won't have been updated, so we'll refuse to look at it anyway. And we have to reinitialize on entering normal running anyway, so we can clean it up then. -- Robert Haas EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 3:29 AM, Leonardo Francalanci m_li...@yahoo.it wrote: I'm pretty sure we wouldn't accept a patch for a feature that would only work with wal_level=minimal, but it might be a useful starting point for someone else to keep hacking on. I understand. Reading your post at http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2011-01/msg00315.php I thought I got the part: what happens if we *crash* without writing an abort record? It seems like that could leave a stray file around on a standby, because the current code only cleans things up on the standby at the start of recovery But re-reading it, I don't understand: what's the difference in creating a new regular table and crashing before emitting the abort record, and converting an unlogged table to logged and crashing before emitting the abort record? How do the standby servers handle a CREATE TABLE followed by a ROLLBACK if the master crashes before writing the abort record? I thought that too would leave a stray file around on a standby. I've been thinking about the same thing. And AFAICS, your analysis is correct, though there may be some angle to it I'm not seeing. -- Robert Haas EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
I'm pretty sure we wouldn't accept a patch for a feature that would only work with wal_level=minimal, but it might be a useful starting point for someone else to keep hacking on. I understand. Reading your post at http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2011-01/msg00315.php I thought I got the part: what happens if we *crash* without writing an abort record? It seems like that could leave a stray file around on a standby, because the current code only cleans things up on the standby at the start of recovery But re-reading it, I don't understand: what's the difference in creating a new regular table and crashing before emitting the abort record, and converting an unlogged table to logged and crashing before emitting the abort record? How do the standby servers handle a CREATE TABLE followed by a ROLLBACK if the master crashes before writing the abort record? I thought that too would leave a stray file around on a standby. Leonardo -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
[HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
Hi, I read the discussion at http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2011-01/msg00315.php From what I can understand, going from/to unlogged to/from logged in the wal_level == minimal case is not too complicated. Suppose I try to write a patch that allows ALTER TABLE tablename SET LOGGED (or UNLOGGED) (proper sql wording to be discussed...) only in the wal_level == minimal case: would it be accepted as a first step? Or rejected because it doesn't allow it in the other cases? From what I got in the discussion, handling the other wal_level cases can be very complicated (example: the issues in case we *crash* without writing an abort record). Leonardo -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] switch UNLOGGED to LOGGED
On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 6:01 AM, Leonardo Francalanci m_li...@yahoo.it wrote: I read the discussion at http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2011-01/msg00315.php From what I can understand, going from/to unlogged to/from logged in the wal_level == minimal case is not too complicated. Suppose I try to write a patch that allows ALTER TABLE tablename SET LOGGED (or UNLOGGED) (proper sql wording to be discussed...) only in the wal_level == minimal case: would it be accepted as a first step? Or rejected because it doesn't allow it in the other cases? I'm pretty sure we wouldn't accept a patch for a feature that would only work with wal_level=minimal, but it might be a useful starting point for someone else to keep hacking on. -- Robert Haas EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
