[Phono-L] Edison Standard B question
Hi - someone had sent me some pictures of an Edison Standard they are looking to potentially sell. I have posted one of the pictures on my website at: http://www.majesticrecord.com/standard.htm It's a Model B but has the horizontal carriage with large eye. I'm not an expert on this but I'd like to confirm that no other modification needed to be done to put this carriage on the Model B. It's a Model C reproducer, unfortunately with a broken hinge pin. Any comments on age of horn? Is this a reproduction? Why would someone set it up this way other than that this was the only carriage available to them at the time so that's what was used. It has been this way since at least 1981. Thanks, Glenn From lhera...@bu.edu Wed Feb 13 13:01:31 2008 From: lhera...@bu.edu (Ron L) Date: Wed Feb 13 13:03:29 2008 Subject: [Phono-L] threaded needles In-Reply-To: 47b3502c.7000...@mediaguide.com References: 000601c86819$e97a0be0$0200a...@office47a8bd72.7020...@mediaguide.combay123-dav14049431ae33eba9f9485daa...@phx.gbl003d01c86849$a75cd780$6400a...@hpa1514nbay123-dav8d9ec8feaac0c056609b5aa...@phx.gbl002701c86868$be365b60$6400a...@hpa1514nbay102-w390dfe8801f25d44acb4f3f6...@phx.gbl 003b01c86aab$aaaf34a0$6400a...@hpa1514n bay102-w3408c96e4bb9f89a711a06f6...@phx.gbl 001b01c86b58$6463df20$6400a...@hpa1514n1885592092.20080209134...@noring.name 47b3502c.7000...@mediaguide.com Message-ID: 005501c86e83$9bdef330$90d42...@ad.bu.edu Isn't sabot a French word for boot? Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Thatcher Graham Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 3:17 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] threaded needles As an engineer I could not help but to fixate on this threaded needle idea. I agree that threading needles solves the mass issue hence the instinctive appeal, but the difficult manufacture is equally discouraging. As an alternative, have you considered a sabot? -Thatcher Jon Noring wrote: Greg wrote: Threading the needle shank and having it screw into the needle bar is an option. I hadn't considered that before, but it would pretty well solve the extra mass problem. But it would make the needles pretty involved to manufacture. I'll keep it in mind. Yes, it would be involved if all the needles are threaded by hand or in small numbers, especially at the diameter being considered. It is intriguing to consider using a very fine threaded rod, if even manufactured in the desired material(s). One would have to grind and polish to create the tip geometry. Which brings up the idea that if a needle is to be especially manufactured, one could consider tipping it with a different material that can be specially shaped (such as spherical or elliptical with no sharp edges at all. It is my understanding that most damage to grooves is due to a tip which is no longer smooth. Maybe the tip could be made from a material of the same hardness as the grit used in shellac discs (is it corundum?) to wear down the needle. Just thinking outside the box... Jon ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Edison Standard B question
The horn color looks like a repro to me. The odd thing is, it looks like it has the correct bead on the outside where the bell joins the neck. It is hard to tell from the angle shown, but my vote is that it is repro. The carriage makes no sense except maybe this machine lost the original one and someone stuck this one on. The correct carriage would be easy to find. Dave Glenn Longwell majesticrec...@snet.net wrote: Hi - someone had sent me some pictures of an Edison Standard they are looking to potentially sell. I have posted one of the pictures on my website at: http://www.majesticrecord.com/standard.htm It's a Model B but has the horizontal carriage with large eye. I'm not an expert on this but I'd like to confirm that no other modification needed to be done to put this carriage on the Model B. It's a Model C reproducer, unfortunately with a broken hinge pin. Any comments on age of horn? Is this a reproduction? Why would someone set it up this way other than that this was the only carriage available to them at the time so that's what was used. It has been this way since at least 1981. Thanks, Glenn ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Edison Standard B question
It also looks like it has been refinished. Dave Glenn Longwell majesticrec...@snet.net wrote: Hi - someone had sent me some pictures of an Edison Standard they are looking to potentially sell. I have posted one of the pictures on my website at: http://www.majesticrecord.com/standard.htm It's a Model B but has the horizontal carriage with large eye. I'm not an expert on this but I'd like to confirm that no other modification needed to be done to put this carriage on the Model B. It's a Model C reproducer, unfortunately with a broken hinge pin. Any comments on age of horn? Is this a reproduction? Why would someone set it up this way other than that this was the only carriage available to them at the time so that's what was used. It has been this way since at least 1981. Thanks, Glenn ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Edison Standard B question
Glenn, The horn is a reproduction and the case has been refinished. No modifications are or were needed to put this carriage on a Model B. As to why someone would set up this way is anyone's best guess. The person probably had these parts available to make the machine complete to sell. Depending on what you are paying for it, I think their are better machines available which you won't have to fuss around with and are in more original condition. Steve On Feb 13, 2008, at 3:53 PM, Glenn Longwell wrote: Hi - someone had sent me some pictures of an Edison Standard they are looking to potentially sell. I have posted one of the pictures on my website at: http://www.majesticrecord.com/standard.htm It's a Model B but has the horizontal carriage with large eye. I'm not an expert on this but I'd like to confirm that no other modification needed to be done to put this carriage on the Model B. It's a Model C reproducer, unfortunately with a broken hinge pin. Any comments on age of horn? Is this a reproduction? Why would someone set it up this way other than that this was the only carriage available to them at the time so that's what was used. It has been this way since at least 1981. Thanks, Glenn ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] threaded needles
Yes it is. Google sabot and go to Wikipedia for detailed description. Then you can figure out how it might apply to a needle holder. Ray - Original Message - From: Ron L lhera...@bu.edu To: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 4:01 PM Subject: RE: [Phono-L] threaded needles Isn't sabot a French word for boot? Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Thatcher Graham Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 3:17 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] threaded needles As an engineer I could not help but to fixate on this threaded needle idea. I agree that threading needles solves the mass issue hence the instinctive appeal, but the difficult manufacture is equally discouraging. As an alternative, have you considered a sabot? -Thatcher Jon Noring wrote: Greg wrote: Threading the needle shank and having it screw into the needle bar is an option. I hadn't considered that before, but it would pretty well solve the extra mass problem. But it would make the needles pretty involved to manufacture. I'll keep it in mind. Yes, it would be involved if all the needles are threaded by hand or in small numbers, especially at the diameter being considered. It is intriguing to consider using a very fine threaded rod, if even manufactured in the desired material(s). One would have to grind and polish to create the tip geometry. Which brings up the idea that if a needle is to be especially manufactured, one could consider tipping it with a different material that can be specially shaped (such as spherical or elliptical with no sharp edges at all. It is my understanding that most damage to grooves is due to a tip which is no longer smooth. Maybe the tip could be made from a material of the same hardness as the grit used in shellac discs (is it corundum?) to wear down the needle. Just thinking outside the box... Jon ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] threaded needles
Sorry about that, I could have been more specific. A sabot could be employed to fit together parts (needle to needle bar etc) and would avoid the problems of the threaded needle, the delicate nature of fine threads, cross threading.. etc. There's a couple different ways to implement, I'm sure. But there are engineers here with more practical experience that might have already disregarded the idea. It has short comings. For example the vibrations /might /shake loose any sabot no matter how tightly fitted. That's really beyond my competence and experience in fabrication . -Thatcher wilenz...@bellsouth.net wrote: Yes it is. Google sabot and go to Wikipedia for detailed description. Then you can figure out how it might apply to a needle holder. Ray - Original Message - From: Ron L lhera...@bu.edu To: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 4:01 PM Subject: RE: [Phono-L] threaded needles Isn't sabot a French word for boot? Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Thatcher Graham Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 3:17 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] threaded needles As an engineer I could not help but to fixate on this threaded needle idea. I agree that threading needles solves the mass issue hence the instinctive appeal, but the difficult manufacture is equally discouraging. As an alternative, have you considered a sabot? -Thatcher Jon Noring wrote: Greg wrote: Threading the needle shank and having it screw into the needle bar is an option. I hadn't considered that before, but it would pretty well solve the extra mass problem. But it would make the needles pretty involved to manufacture. I'll keep it in mind. Yes, it would be involved if all the needles are threaded by hand or in small numbers, especially at the diameter being considered. It is intriguing to consider using a very fine threaded rod, if even manufactured in the desired material(s). One would have to grind and polish to create the tip geometry. Which brings up the idea that if a needle is to be especially manufactured, one could consider tipping it with a different material that can be specially shaped (such as spherical or elliptical with no sharp edges at all. It is my understanding that most damage to grooves is due to a tip which is no longer smooth. Maybe the tip could be made from a material of the same hardness as the grit used in shellac discs (is it corundum?) to wear down the needle. Just thinking outside the box... Jon ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Re: Edison Standard B question
There is no doubt the case was refinished. Had the machine been equipped with a 24 minute gear then I would have said the large diameter reproducer carriage could have been contemporaneous to the period. But, with no speed change gearing this must have been done when the machine was restored! It also appears that the topworks and bedplate were painted over as they look nice but have no gold pinstripe. I would place my bet that the horn was a reproduction as well as the decal on the golden oak finish, which is an incorrect finish. Always get a serial number for a machine you wish to purchase. It can tell you a great deal. If the topworks were a Model B on a Model A motor with no springs for suspension or if the decal were wrong for the machine, etc., the serial would tell. e.g. The banner transfer gave way to the simple Edison script around machine #344000. Frankenmutt Edisons are so easy to put together that one has to be careful that the as found from grandson of original owner will not give you a Gem D with a Diamond B reproducer in a large diameter horizontal carriage. Yes, it was a put together arrangement that would not play a 4 minute record all the way through because of the pressure applied by the B stylus. Since it was so ultra-rare it went high on eBay to a newbie who swallowed the bait, hook, line, and sinker. Estimated value on a restored put-together machine is really the sum of the valuable parts and not as a whole machine. eBay prices have been ranging from just over $300 to $500 for more original machines. So, IMHO the phonograph is worth $200, the broken C reproducer $85, and the all brass witches hat horn repro $35. Grand total value of $320 on a good day. Best Wishes to Everyone, Al **The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy Awards. Go to AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys?NCID=aolcmp0030002565) From gbogan...@charter.net Wed Feb 13 13:33:22 2008 From: gbogan...@charter.net (Greg Bogantz) Date: Wed Feb 13 18:34:43 2008 Subject: [Phono-L] threaded needles References: 000601c86819$e97a0be0$0200a...@office47a8bd72.7020...@mediaguide.combay123-dav14049431ae33eba9f9485daa...@phx.gbl003d01c86849$a75cd780$6400a...@hpa1514nbay123-dav8d9ec8feaac0c056609b5aa...@phx.gbl002701c86868$be365b60$6400a...@hpa1514nbay102-w390dfe8801f25d44acb4f3f6...@phx.gbl 003b01c86aab$aaaf34a0$6400a...@hpa1514n bay102-w3408c96e4bb9f89a711a06f6...@phx.gbl 001b01c86b58$6463df20$6400a...@hpa1514n1885592092.20080209134...@noring.name 47b3502c.7000...@mediaguide.com Message-ID: 006401c86e88$0f67af00$6400a...@hpa1514n Thatcher, That's essentially what I am now doing. The present design is a press fit of the needle shank into the hole (deep well, actually) in the needle bar. But the fit must be tight to prevent rattling. This makes the machining difficult, but more significantly, it makes the needle exchange difficult because you must use pliers, tweezers, or some similar tool to hold both the needle bar and the needle shank for both insertion and removal. Not user-friendly. Specialized tools and/or jigs could be furnished to make the job easier, but it's still a tedious task. A friend of mine has experimented with a similar design. His solution is to glue the needle shank into the needle bar. That works, but getting the worn needle out of the needle bar is a b*tch. He gets around this by using the semi-permanant osmium Pfanstiehl needles that were popular in the 1940s and can last for several playings. I don't agree with this because these needles are too hard, as I've commented before, and must be worn in over several playings on junk records to form their flats. He removes the needle by heating the glue with a soldering iron to cause it to flow. Still, very tedious. Greg Bogantz - Original Message - From: Thatcher Graham thatc...@mediaguide.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] threaded needles As an engineer I could not help but to fixate on this threaded needle idea. I agree that threading needles solves the mass issue hence the instinctive appeal, but the difficult manufacture is equally discouraging. As an alternative, have you considered a sabot? -Thatcher Jon Noring wrote: Greg wrote: Threading the needle shank and having it screw into the needle bar is an option. I hadn't considered that before, but it would pretty well solve the extra mass problem. But it would make the needles pretty involved to manufacture. I'll keep it in mind. Yes, it would be involved if all the needles are threaded by hand or in small numbers, especially at the diameter being considered. It is intriguing to consider using a very fine threaded rod, if even manufactured in the desired material(s). One would have to grind and polish to create the tip
[Phono-L] Contact information for Mirek Stehlick?
Does anyone on the list have recent contact information for Mirek Stehlick (spelling) in Canada, who makes the great reproduction parts? I need his e-mail. My last catalog from him is from 2003. phonopa...@mjstech.ca just gets a bounce! Thanks, Jeff Wiscsonsin
[Phono-L] open question
I have a number of 78s that are not shellac or at least do not appear to be. In many cases (depending on brand) their labels indicate they are made of Metrolite I've read that Mercury used Merco Plastic MGM used Mercolite and Savoy used Sav-o-Flex. Do these have the same resilience as my shellac 78s? I am concerned that normal play will wear them more quickly. If they are made of a a PVC/ENR blend that is probably the case. -- Thatcher Metrolite, Merco Plastic, and Sav-o-flex! ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] threaded needles
Have you guys thought about employing a split chuck? Basically just two or three vertical slits of about 5 to 7 mm in length, in an otherwise quite tight fitting holder, with a simple insertable key (or perhaps built-in) to provide just enough rotational torque to spread the needle holder at its slits, allowing the needle to drop out by its own weight. What do you think? Andy Baron Santa Fe On Feb 13, 2008, at 2:33 PM, Greg Bogantz wrote: Thatcher, That's essentially what I am now doing. The present design is a press fit of the needle shank into the hole (deep well, actually) in the needle bar. But the fit must be tight to prevent rattling. This makes the machining difficult, but more significantly, it makes the needle exchange difficult because you must use pliers, tweezers, or some similar tool to hold both the needle bar and the needle shank for both insertion and removal. Not user-friendly. Specialized tools and/or jigs could be furnished to make the job easier, but it's still a tedious task. A friend of mine has experimented with a similar design. His solution is to glue the needle shank into the needle bar. That works, but getting the worn needle out of the needle bar is a b*tch. He gets around this by using the semi-permanant osmium Pfanstiehl needles that were popular in the 1940s and can last for several playings. I don't agree with this because these needles are too hard, as I've commented before, and must be worn in over several playings on junk records to form their flats. He removes the needle by heating the glue with a soldering iron to cause it to flow. Still, very tedious. Greg Bogantz - Original Message - From: Thatcher Graham thatc...@mediaguide.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] threaded needles As an engineer I could not help but to fixate on this threaded needle idea. I agree that threading needles solves the mass issue hence the instinctive appeal, but the difficult manufacture is equally discouraging. As an alternative, have you considered a sabot? -Thatcher Jon Noring wrote: Greg wrote: Threading the needle shank and having it screw into the needle bar is an option. I hadn't considered that before, but it would pretty well solve the extra mass problem. But it would make the needles pretty involved to manufacture. I'll keep it in mind. Yes, it would be involved if all the needles are threaded by hand or in small numbers, especially at the diameter being considered. It is intriguing to consider using a very fine threaded rod, if even manufactured in the desired material(s). One would have to grind and polish to create the tip geometry. Which brings up the idea that if a needle is to be especially manufactured, one could consider tipping it with a different material that can be specially shaped (such as spherical or elliptical with no sharp edges at all. It is my understanding that most damage to grooves is due to a tip which is no longer smooth. Maybe the tip could be made from a material of the same hardness as the grit used in shellac discs (is it corundum?) to wear down the needle. Just thinking outside the box... Jon ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Contact information for Mirek Stehlick?
Mirek Stehlik has an ad in the February MAPS newsletter. His phone number is 519-743-4882 and his email is phonopa...@sentex.ca
[Phono-L] open question
Absolutely, Douglas is correct. 78's were designed for equipment contemporary of their time of manufacture, and the curve only works forward. Play a 1920's 78 on a 1950's machine all you like, but never play a 1950's 78 on a 1920's phonograph! - Original Message - From: Douglas Houston cdh...@earthlink.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 10:06 PM Subject: RE: [Phono-L] open question After WW II, the record companies did go to pressing discs with plastics, and I believe that Vinyl was the biggest player. Light weight pickups were widely in use, and played the discs very well. But, a heavy pickup, such as early horseshoe magnetics, or even acoustic sound boxes will make a mess of them. [Original Message] From: Thatcher Graham thatc...@mediaguide.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: 2/13/2008 10:28:15 PM Subject: [Phono-L] open question I have a number of 78s that are not shellac or at least do not appear to be. In many cases (depending on brand) their labels indicate they are made of Metrolite I've read that Mercury used Merco Plastic MGM used Mercolite and Savoy used Sav-o-Flex. Do these have the same resilience as my shellac 78s? I am concerned that normal play will wear them more quickly. If they are made of a a PVC/ENR blend that is probably the case. -- Thatcher Metrolite, Merco Plastic, and Sav-o-flex! ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
