[Phono-L] been there, done that?
I got tired of waiting for the thing to load. It's the guy with the only one of its kind in existence cylinder. He klutzes it into fragments. Notice that at the end of the clip, he and the kid moderating are both laughing. I've had this thing on a disk here for a year or better. It's funny, but dfinitely a staged event. Doug. Houston - Original Message - From: Peter Fraser pjfra...@alamedanet.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 4:15 PM Subject: [Phono-L] been there, done that? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2092922945225517388q=techtv i can't tell if this is a set up or not...does anybody know this guy? -- Peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
[Phono-L] been there, done that?
I agree that the whole thing looked legit, but if you watch carefully, even stopping action, the guy's laughing at the end of the clip. If he even thought incorrectly that the cylinder was the only one in the universe, can you imagine him laughing about it? I can't. And the kid who was moderating got a big guffaw over it as well. But real or otherwise, it is a good sequence. - Original Message - From: George Glastris glast...@edisongallery.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 8:22 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] been there, done that? Personally, I think it is legit. First of all, the guys hands are shaking like a leaf, which is a sign of someone infront of the cameras. Second, his hyperbole about the cylinder is exactly the type you hear from people when they are trying to say how big theirs is (ah-hem) I mean how wonderful their collection is. Third, who amongst us hasn't broken a cylinder? And at the risk of blowing my own horn, my first Roadshow had a close up of my hands, and they were shaking as much as his. Best, George Glastris - Original Message - From: Tim Hume timhumev...@yahoo.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 7:06 PM Subject: [Phono-L] been there, done that? My brother sent this video to me a long time ago as well... Admittedly, it's very funny, but obviously staged... 1. If it WAS a rare cylinder, would YOU handle it on the outside, where hand oils can do lovely things to the soft wax? 2. I thought the cylinder was just a little bit too shiny to be a 90+ year artifact...Sure, a 78 from that period can have quite a shine, but it's shellac, not soft wax. Dilg uses brown wax for his blanks, doesn't he? Does anybody make black ones? (then again...I collect only 78s...so maybe I'm all wet?) tmh - Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.4/176 - Release Date: 11/20/2005 ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
[Phono-L] Unusual item on eBay
This doo-hicky is a speaker driver that is intended to go in place of the sound box on a phonograph. It uses the horn of the phonograph as the necessary horn for its operation. There were several such attachmernts for phonographs in the days of battery radios. It's reasonable to expect that the winding in these speaker attachments are open, and that the thing wouldn't work, but... - Original Message - From: aph4...@aol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Monday, July 04, 2005 3:10 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Unusual item on eBay To the group: This unusual item is presently on ebay and I can't tell if one is supposed to play one's phonograph through a radio or perhaps play a radio through a phono horn. Any ideas? Item number: 6542654990 Thanks, Art Heller ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
[Phono-L] Nipper takes over Moorestown NJ - Photos
A question as a result of this. I bel;ieve that Eldredge Johnson lived in Moorestown, and if that's correct, is his home still there? - Original Message - From: srsel...@aol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 9:22 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Nipper takes over Moorestown NJ - Photos Hi All! Yesterday was such a glorious July 4th that I decided to venture over to Moorestown, New Jersey to see the Nipper 2005 exhibit. Based on the concept started years ago with cows, the town of Moorestown had 30 artists decorate large vinyl Nipper Dogs and they placed them throughout the town. They will be on display until September and then auctioned off. They are REALLY neat. If you are anywhere near Moorestown, I highly recommend you go to see them. About half are in the center of this quaint small town and you can park and see them. The others require a car but you aren?t traveling more than 3 miles from the center of town. It took me about 2 ? hours to see them leisurely. A few comments and hints for anyone planning to go: 1. Go on a Sunday if you can. The streets are less crowded and parking is easy and free. 1. Print out the map on the _www.nipper2005.com_ (http://www.nipper2005.com/) site. (Go there anyway to learn about them). It is two pages: one is a map and other is the address for each. I found it easier to use the map side and just check them off. A few are a little harder to find. #6 is in a small shopping Center and you might miss because of the trees. 1. All are outside and can be seen at any hour EXCEPT # 4, which is inside the Moorestown Mall. 1. There?s a nice Starbucks and a Subway right on Main Street good for lunch, a snack and (ta-da!) clean restrooms. Okay, so many of you may be far away and the Nippers are not shown on the web site. But I?ve loaded them up in two places for you to see. I took LOTS of photos so you can see all the angles and watch as a slide show. I have them on Yahoo Photos without descriptions and on Snapfish with descriptions and a few comments. If you would like to see them, and I haven?t emailed you already, send me an email at _stevenr...@aol.com_ (mailto:stevenr...@aol.com) and I? ll send them off for you to see. There were lots of other folks yesterday looking at them. Most were not Nipper collectors but either brought their dogs or their kids. Kids love these statures and it makes a great scavenger hunt! So go if you can! If you are too far away., I hope you enjoy the photos. Steve Ramm ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
[Phono-L] OTAPS Meeting Photos
Tried to look at the pix, but wouldn't ya know it, you need ANOTHER password, and ANOTHER logiin. Do we need top have to go through that crap just to see a few pictures? - Original Message - From: Loran Hughes loranhug...@mac.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 12:37 PM Subject: [Phono-L] OTAPS Meeting Photos We had a great time at the OTAPS meeting yesterday. I took the liberty of snapping a few photos of Bob Karen Johnson's extensive collection. You can view them at http://homepage.mac.com/ loranhughes/PhotoAlbum6.html . Loran ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
[Phono-L] Resistor Search
I assume that this is one of the dropping resistors for the Victor universal motor..right? We'll need to know which resistor it is (most of those installations had a couple of resistors). From that, we can go to the Victor service notes and find out its resistance and wattage rating. You can probably come close on value, or possibly right on the money. But we'll have to know the resistance. The big wire wound resistors are made, and the (very few left) electronic supply houses can get them. - Original Message - From: Bruce Mercer maxbu...@sigecom.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 10:49 AM Subject: [Phono-L] Resistor Search 2. Resistor Search (Loran T. Hughes) Message: 2 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:47:16 -0700 From: Loran T. Hughes lo...@oldcrank.com Subject: [Phono-L] Resistor Search To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Message-ID: 00330913-d5b4-4401-a2fc-91b1d387e...@oldcrank.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Folks, I've gotten a request to find a resistor for a VE-350. Anyone have a suitable replacement? If so, contact Mark Fuller at mfuller...@aol.com . Tell him Loran sent you ;) Regards, Loran I was emailing Mark back and forth about a resistor replacement and all of a sudden the last three emails bounced back. Don't know how to contact him otherwisemaybe he will see it here. Bruce ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
[Phono-L] Electric motor needed
Those RCA phonographs all had V-M changers in them. I probably have the same model as yours. I'd suggest Gary Stork, who is the guru on V-M equipmwnt. He does have parts. Try him at gst...@concentric.net. He's in Northville, Michigan. Doug. Houston Ortonville, Mich. - Original Message - From: diamondisk...@aol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:08 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Electric motor needed There is another list, which is devoted to the care and repair of later phonographs, and their various motors, and mechanisms. I couldn't find the other list in a Google search, but I know Greg Bogantz, whom I think is a former RCA engineer, contributes to it. Randy ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
[Phono-L] Resistor Replacement..Maybe..(HELP)
Actually, a variac would be a very good solution. You would locate it in the motor vompartment and set the output for 32 Volts. I recommend that location because of someone wanting to tinker with it if it's accessable. Now, Variacs come in currnet rayings and since the motor draws a small current, a 1 ampere rating would be plenty. That size would be pretty small. One nice thing about a Variac is that it's a variable transformer and the heat loss in operation is negligible, whereas the resistor has to be where air can cool it. - Original Message - From: Mike Stitt m...@oldcranky.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Resistor Replacement..Maybe..(HELP) I hope I'm spelling this right but how about a variac??? 0-120 volts. One big giant pot!!! Bruce Mercer wrote: Doug, please help one more time... After your thoughtful reply I emailed the guy the information along with a couple questions. It appears the entire resistor was being used as there was a wire attached to each end. He sent me a photo of it and the thing is green from the wire under the coating so the whole thing looks like toast. When I was looking in the He is more electrically challenged than I am. I, and the fellow that owns the machine would really appreciate the help. If this would work I'll send it to him for postage. Best, Bruce ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
[Phono-L] Victor long playing records
I thin that's true. I was just speculating about Edison patenting the groove pitch. If he had done something like that, the patent would have been expired, and long since out of Goldmark's way. Oh, and I can supply a copy (scan) of the page on RCA's dealer fact book from 1932, where they sayn that their new lomg playing records are made of Vinylite. There seems to be all sorts of names for those discs. I be much confuse! - Original Message - From: Dan Kj ediso...@verizon.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 12:27 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor long playing records I don't think that either speed or groove size can be patented. For an interesting account of the Columbia LP, try http://www.classicalmusiccd.com/audiohistoryLP.html - Ed Wallerstein mentions the RCAVictor lp, too. I've read elsewhere that recommendations were made (I think by Wallerstein) for saving the RCA program by developing a smaller, jewelled stylus, lighter pickup, and steadier motor, but the interest just wasn't there. All 10 Program Transcriptions which I have seen were/are made of standard shellac-formula stuff; the 12 of Victrolac, which was covered in US patent number 2130239. Vinsol is the plastic, extracted from shredded longleaf yellow pine stumps, while PVC (which we call vinyl) is 57% chlorine and 43% petroleum. - Original Message - From: Doug cdh...@earthlink.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 8:54 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor long playing records Before I read the other related posts, I can MAYBE answer this. Columbia succeded in recording a wide (frequency) range microgroove disc for 33 1/3 speed on a soft material that was beginning to appear on 78 RPM records (Remember RCA's Red Seal Deluxe records?). I'd say that Dr. Goldmark just used the best of all the former techniques and put them together on one new disc. Certainly, Edison went to a microgroove cut, because it made sense. He should have used an electric motor so he would be able to have the 33 1/3 speed for a full playing time. But Edison had an aversion to electric notors in phonographs, though he could have had them; others did. Victor was wise enopugh to use the then standard 33 1/3 speed. Goldmark simply combined those two factors and made his microgroove LP discs. Of course, it was a tad more complicated that that, but it was the logical combination of features, as I see it. One other thing that came to mind. Let's say that Edison patented the microgroove cut in 1925 (or so). His patent would have expired in 1942, 17 years later. Probably an Edison patent was why RCA didn't use a microgroove cut pitch. Was the 33 1/3peed patented? I doubt it. It was in wide use in the the thirties through the forties. But, if Edison did have a patent on his microgroove records, Goldmark was free to use the technique because the 17 year patent life had passed. Now, on the exacr character of materials on the Victor Lp discs, I don't doubt for a second that there was more than one material for the LP records. We're going to have to find someone who has lab notes or something from Victor, explaining all of this. - Original Message - From: Robert Wright esrobe...@hotmail.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 8:03 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor long playing records To Ben, Doug, Peter, and all the fine folks of this list, my profound thanks for your fascinating and thorough contributions on this subject. In a matter of days, I now know more than I had learned through some 15 years of incidental research. I can't thank you enough. A bit more info on materials used: My 12 Stokowski PT's are flexible vinyl (Vinylite?), while all my 10 are the same brittle shellac as normal 78's of the era. I would think Victrolac was a slightly (if at all) modified shellac formula that was more about marketing 'the next next big thing' than being a revolutionary material (no pun intended). I am curious exactly what Z shellac is, a notation I've seen on VE scrolls in Nauck's auctions. We do have two questions so far unanswered, to which I'd like to add a third: 1. Do we have a way to find out the exact dimensions of the stylus intended for use with Program Transcriptions? Does anyone know of a 'white paper' on the subject buried somewhere in the old RCA Victor files, perhaps? 2. Does a complete list of PT's exist anywhere that we know of? Is there a way to know which releases used matrices specially recorded for LP vs. dubbed PT's? 3. If 33.3rpm Vitaphones were a Victor concern (right? weren't they?), and Edison invented the microgroove (as well as the micromicrogroove with his almost unplayable 80rpm LP's), and Victor combined a type of microgroove with their PT LP's, then exactly what did
[Phono-L] Victor long playing records
It's simple when goven a bit of thought. Sure, you can gear down a spring motor, but the governor has to run at high speed to remain reasonably smooth. This means that you use up all of your spring, keeping the governor going, while the turntable runs at slow speed. Under those conditions, a long playing record will play less than half the playing time on the phonograph before you run out of spring. The listener would be cranking the motor several times before a 33 1/3 RPM disc could finish playing. That wouldn't go over well with customers at all! It would explain the reason that Edison used 80 RPM for his long play records. We might say that he had half of the puzzle solved, but he didn't go to slow playing speed because it wasn't practical with a spring motor. Sort of ironic, or perhaps tragic, but Victor used the slow speed, and the electric motor, but nearly standard groove pitch, so they had the other half. You have to wonder why RCA didn't investigate the microgroove. It was demonstrated by Edison, so RCA had to be aware of it. RCA had good research capability. Why didn't they put the two ingredients together in 1932, as Goldmark did, in essence, in 1948? My own comment here, and someone might bash me for it, but the RCA LP discs of 1932-34 sounded crumby. I have about 6 of them. I also have a Vitaphone disc from the Jazz Singer film, and it sounds reasonably good. The Vitaphone discs wre pressed by Victor; it says so on the label. I wonder what happened at RCA between 1927 and 1932? - Original Message - From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 12:54 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor long playing records Hi Doug, This is interesting, Edison had the Alva but I have never seen an electric motor in a DD phono, I never thought of this until your post. Steve But Edison had an aversion to electric motors in phonographs, though he could have had them; others did. ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank
[Phono-L] Victor long playing records
I can't imagine any record maker in the thirties intending their discs to be played with a sound box. As far as Victor is concerned, while they made mechanical reproducers through the thirties on suitcase portables, the players could not play the 33 1/3 speed. I sometimes play the RCA LP discs (manually) on an RCA model 381, which has the ejector changer, or on my main system, which uses a GE VR cartridge. I've played a 78 RPM vinyl disc on my Credenza, and it's obvious that the player is being tough on the record. A few more plays, and it would be history. All right, on another topic. Magnetic tape recording was IN USE in Germany in the thirties. Do you think that the recording companies in this country didn't know about it? It would be a threat to their markets to have a recordable medium in the hands of buyers who would otherwise buy disc recordings. It proved to be just that, after Jack Mullin imported his two Magnetophones at the end of WWII, and Crosby went on the air, using one of them in 1947. It was the time that Alex M.Poniatoff (Ampex) went into the tape recorder business, and we know the rest. - Original Message - From: Robert Wright esrobe...@hotmail.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 4:52 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor long playing records These are the exact questions I've pondered, Doug... All the companies had the technology available and in practical use for decades before 1948. Even the demonstrable stereo groove was patented (by Bell Labs, right?) in 1929, yet all these innovations didn't come together until 1959. The Vitaphones of 1927 sound better than LP's of 1932, and I have some heavy vinyl 12 vertical transcriptions from the mid-30's (WIDERANGE Western Electric Sound System, Associated Music Publishers, Inc. of NY) that sound positively fantastic and obviously had to be played with a lightweight pickup. (Did Victor actually intend the vinylite 12 PT LP's to be played with an acoustic soundbox?!) So was it greed and/or ego that kept things developing so slowly when all the pieces were right under their noses? I have From Tinfoil To Stereo and many other books, but I was hoping to get some Phono-L perspective on things. Thanks, Robert PS - Again, Doug, endless gratitude for sharing your knowledge and research. - Original Message - From: Doug cdh...@earthlink.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 3:01 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor long playing records It's simple when goven a bit of thought. Sure, you can gear down a spring motor, but the governor has to run at high speed to remain reasonably smooth. This means that you use up all of your spring, keeping the governor going, while the turntable runs at slow speed. Under those conditions, a long playing record will play less than half the playing time on the phonograph before you run out of spring. The listener would be cranking the motor several times before a 33 1/3 RPM disc could finish playing. That wouldn't go over well with customers at all! It would explain the reason that Edison used 80 RPM for his long play records. We might say that he had half of the puzzle solved, but he didn't go to slow playing speed because it wasn't practical with a spring motor. Sort of ironic, or perhaps tragic, but Victor used the slow speed, and the electric motor, but nearly standard groove pitch, so they had the other half. You have to wonder why RCA didn't investigate the microgroove. It was demonstrated by Edison, so RCA had to be aware of it. RCA had good research capability. Why didn't they put the two ingredients together in 1932, as Goldmark did, in essence, in 1948? My own comment here, and someone might bash me for it, but the RCA LP discs of 1932-34 sounded crumby. I have about 6 of them. I also have a Vitaphone disc from the Jazz Singer film, and it sounds reasonably good. The Vitaphone discs wre pressed by Victor; it says so on the label. I wonder what happened at RCA between 1927 and 1932? - Original Message - From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 12:54 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor long playing records Hi Doug, This is interesting, Edison had the Alva but I have never seen an electric motor in a DD phono, I never thought of this until your post. Steve But Edison had an aversion to electric motors in phonographs, though he could have had them; others did. ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono
[Phono-L] Victor long playing records
The Antique Radio Club Of Illinois sold a videotape a few years ago, titled: An Afternoon With Jack Mullin. It runs 50 minutes, and I believe that it was put out by the Audio Engineering Society. I have a copy, and watch it occasionally. He covers early phonograph history very well, and has an outstanding demonstration of the same Victor record playing on acoustical, then switching to Orthophonic. He was a fine collector of phonographs and tape devices. - Original Message - From: Robert Wright esrobe...@hotmail.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 6:02 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor long playing records From: Doug cdh...@earthlink.net I can't imagine any record maker in the thirties intending their discs to be played with a sound box. Were the heavy electric pickups any better? I had a Brunswick Panatrope for a while, and though I never got the amp working, the GE/RCA motor worked great, quiet and steady. The pickup head was hinged but not counterbalanced, and it could eat through 30's 78's with the best of 'em. (The 'plinth' board, if you will, also generated a roomful of acoustic output.) All right, on another topic. Magnetic tape recording was IN USE in Germany in the thirties. Do you think that the recording companies in this country didn't know about it? It would be a threat to their markets to have a recordable medium in the hands of buyers who would otherwise buy disc recordings. It proved to be just that, after Jack Mullin imported his two Magnetophones at the end of WWII, and Crosby went on the air, using one of them in 1947. With what Germany was brewing up during that time, I wonder if any technology was leaving the German borders. I'm no WWII expert, but I've always just assumed there was an iron veil over all the sciences in 30's Germany. This article on John Mullin touches on this, saying that Although the German technical press covered advances during the 1920s, the '30s, and even the early 1940s, Britons and Americans were largely unaware of these technology developments. It's a fascinating read and answers a lot of questions (while raising a few); here's the link: http://www.tvhandbook.com/History/History_mullin.htm One wonders. The first magnetic recording was demonstrated in 1898 by a Danish inventor named Poulsen. Seems the more we know, the more there is to learn. I'm gonna go finish that Mullin article. -r. ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank
[Phono-L] Jack Mullin tape...was Re: Victor long playing records
Hows 'bout if I give you a DVD of it? e-mail me directly. - Original Message - From: pjfra...@alamedanet.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 7:01 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Jack Mullin tape...was Re: Victor long playing records I have a unit which burns DVDs directly from VHS tapes, and would gladly burn copies of this for list-pals, for the cost of postage...if Doug would see fit to lend it out for that purpose. Doug? -- peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net Doug wrote: The Antique Radio Club Of Illinois sold a videotape a few years ago, titled: An Afternoon With Jack Mullin. It runs 50 minutes, and I believe that it was put out by the Audio Engineering Society. I have a copy, and watch it occasionally. He covers early phonograph history very well, and has an outstanding demonstration of the same Victor record playing on acoustical, then switching to Orthophonic. He was a fine collector of phonographs and tape devices. - Original Message - From: Robert Wright esrobe...@hotmail.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 6:02 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor long playing records From: Doug cdh...@earthlink.net I can't imagine any record maker in the thirties intending their discs to be played with a sound box. Were the heavy electric pickups any better? I had a Brunswick Panatrope for a while, and though I never got the amp working, the GE/RCA motor worked great, quiet and steady. The pickup head was hinged but not counterbalanced, and it could eat through 30's 78's with the best of 'em. (The 'plinth' board, if you will, also generated a roomful of acoustic output.) All right, on another topic. Magnetic tape recording was IN USE in Germany in the thirties. Do you think that the recording companies in this country didn't know about it? It would be a threat to their markets to have a recordable medium in the hands of buyers who would otherwise buy disc recordings. It proved to be just that, after Jack Mullin imported his two Magnetophones at the end of WWII, and Crosby went on the air, using one of them in 1947. With what Germany was brewing up during that time, I wonder if any technology was leaving the German borders. I'm no WWII expert, but I've always just assumed there was an iron veil over all the sciences in 30's Germany. This article on John Mullin touches on this, saying that Although the German technical press covered advances during the 1920s, the '30s, and even the early 1940s, Britons and Americans were largely unaware of these technology developments. It's a fascinating read and answers a lot of questions (while raising a few); here's the link: http://www.tvhandbook.com/History/History_mullin.htm One wonders. The first magnetic recording was demonstrated in 1898 by a Danish inventor named Poulsen. Seems the more we know, the more there is to learn. I'm gonna go finish that Mullin article. -r. ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank
[Phono-L] Electric Motors in Phonographs
One other supplier of phono motors in the late twenties was Bodine Electric Co., of Chicago. Majestic used them in their electric players in the late twenties. I believe that Capehart also used them. I don't know when they started, but General Industries, of ERlyria, Ohio did a lot of governor cotrolloed induction motors in the thirties. their brand name was Flyer. The motors were gear drive to the turntable spindle and could be had in 78 or 3 1/3 only or 78-331/3 with a gearshift. they were very popular with custom phonographs. - Original Message - From: Bruce Mercer maxbu...@sigecom.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 4:16 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Electric Motors in Phonographs As I mentioned elsewhere, every one of the universal motors I've ever heard were noisy things, very noisy. Edison used his own brand of motor and I'm not sure what Victor or others used but they were of different design but still noisy. It seems like they would have been more of a novelty for the wealthy. The Induction motor was a different story. Every one of those I've seen were made by G.E. including those used in Edison and Victor machines, and possibly others as well. They are noiseless compared to a universal motor. I'd be interested to know of any other brands of induction motors that were used in machines of the day. Bruce ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank
[Phono-L] Electric Motors in Phonographs
You gottum correct. The induction disc motor was a GE product. It operated on the same principle as a watthour meter does. It had a governor to limit its shaft speed to record playiung speed. Its torque was mild, but was boosted with the use of a phase shift capacitor in some applications. This made it possible for that motor to drive the early Victor record changers, and also to pull the turntables with the home recorders that RCA was selling. - Original Message - From: Robert Wright esrobe...@hotmail.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 5:42 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Electric Motors in Phonographs So I'm thinking my Brunswick Panatrope with its noiseless motor bearing both GE and RCA markings must've been Induction-type, then. I'm no electrical engineering guy or anything, and I didn't know another type of electrical motor ever existed. I also didn't know there had ever been a 450 gpi cylinder experiment in 1899. This is the technical oddity stuff that sends me flying! What all is known about it? Anyone have any detailed pics of the C-1 or C-2 pickup? Or either machine, for that matter? Is there a collection of Edison machine photos online someone might link us to? Great info, Bruce, thanks so much! Robert As I mentioned elsewhere, every one of the universal motors I've ever heard were noisy things, very noisy. Edison used his own brand of motor and I'm not sure what Victor or others used but they were of different design but still noisy. It seems like they would have been more of a novelty for the wealthy. The Induction motor was a different story. Every one of those I've seen were made by G.E. including those used in Edison and Victor machines, and possibly others as well. They are noiseless compared to a universal motor. I'd be interested to know of any other brands of induction motors that were used in machines of the day. Bruce ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank
[Phono-L] Theodore Edison
One thing that we need to check into and that is that Splitdorf Radio Co. beghan an association with Edison in June, 1928, at ffirst, manufacturing for Edison. By January, 1929, they had practically merged.. The acquisition of Splitdorf was of necessity to obtain their RCA license.The manufacturing operation was crude, and inadequate. The operation was moved to the Edison plant in West Orange. The R1,R2and C2 were Splitdorf designs that were put into production to get Edison into public hands. Later models were designed at Edison. This is from Alan Douglas' Radio Manufacturers of the twenties, vol. 3. While nothing was mentioned about the C1, its cabinet design pictured in the Douglas book, has a strong resemblance to a Splitdorf top line model of that period. I sort of suspect that the C1 was a Splitdorf design. The C1 was priced at $1100.00, which was a lot of mazuma in that time. The models C6 and C7 had been in production, and in 1931, a superheterodyne model was planned, but never built. - Original Message - From: Bruce Mercer maxbu...@sigecom.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 4:08 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Theodore Edison - Original Message - From: Bruce Mercer maxbu...@sigecom.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 3:05 PM Subject: Re: Phono-L Digest, Vol 3, Issue 109 -- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 15:02:00 -0400 From: Dan Kj ediso...@verizon.net Subject: Re: [Phono-L] The Practical Long Play Record To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Message-ID: 004a01c66e1a$e7120240$6600a...@new Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original So, did Theodore work on the Edison LP at all ? No. Charles picked up after T.A. retired in 1927, leaving him head of the company in that year. Both Charles and Theodore went to MIT with Theodore having a penchant for mathematical physics and was secretly pursuing electrical recording and playback in a separate laboratory set up for him. It was during this time that electrical recording 'finally' got into gear. It is Theodore we have to thank for the marvelous C-1 and C-2 phonographs. The pick-up is absolutely ingenious and the phonographs have a wonderful sound, especially playing the 52000 series. Unfortunately, they came too late. They were brought out late in 1928 and were the last phonographs made by the company. Very few C-1s are known. Only a few dozen C-2s are known to exist, of which I am a proud owner and can attest to their usual Edison quality. btw...the L.P. cylinder Edison made in 1899 had 450 grooves per inch. Obviously, it wasn't practical at that time either for even more reasons, one being a suitable material for pressing. Still, that's when the L.P. work began and was first achieved. As far as Theodore goes, I bow to him for the electronic phonographs and that ingenious pick-up with the offset diamond stylus. Bruce ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank
[Phono-L] RCA microgroove LP demo disc from ca. 1932 - anyinfo??
If you already haven't any red shank (recording) needles, I have quite a few. Let me know. - Original Message - From: Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu To: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 11:50 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] RCA microgroove LP demo disc from ca. 1932 - anyinfo?? If someone wants to send me NOS of the orange, green, red and Tungstone (I have used ones only AFAIK of the TT), I can do SEM of the needle tips. They would not be changed by the examination and would still be usable. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Merle Sprinzen Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 10:25 AM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] RCA microgroove LP demo disc from ca. 1932 - anyinfo?? I'm catching up on some old emails and found this posting from Robert (unfortunately without his email address, and so I need to write this note to the whole list -- sorry, but maybe other people would be interested, too). I'd be VERY interested in a scan of the part that describes the differences between Chromium needles (green shank), Tungstone needles, regular needles, and 'red shank home recording needle' as well as 'orange shank long playing needle'. Robert -- would you be willing to do that?? On Apr 26, 2006, at 2:16 AM, Robert Wright wrote: Many of you know my area of interest is technical oddities -- odd sized discs, puzzle records, failed experiments with format, inside-out/vertical/universal cut, and especially early attempts at long play discs. ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank
[Phono-L] RCA microgroove LP demo disc from ca. 1932 - anyinfo??
I have a few in the wrapper, so I'll send a couple. I'll need an address e-mail me at cdh041-at-earthkink-dot-net By the way, they'll probably sound awful if you try to play a regular 78 disc with them. They're very blunt. - Original Message - From: Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu To: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 12:25 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] RCA microgroove LP demo disc from ca. 1932 - anyinfo?? I don't have any that I know of. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Doug Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 10:10 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] RCA microgroove LP demo disc from ca. 1932 - anyinfo?? If you already haven't any red shank (recording) needles, I have quite a few. Let me know. - Original Message - From: Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu To: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 11:50 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] RCA microgroove LP demo disc from ca. 1932 - anyinfo?? If someone wants to send me NOS of the orange, green, red and Tungstone (I have used ones only AFAIK of the TT), I can do SEM of the needle tips. They would not be changed by the examination and would still be usable. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Merle Sprinzen Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 10:25 AM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] RCA microgroove LP demo disc from ca. 1932 - anyinfo?? I'm catching up on some old emails and found this posting from Robert (unfortunately without his email address, and so I need to write this note to the whole list -- sorry, but maybe other people would be interested, too). I'd be VERY interested in a scan of the part that describes the differences between Chromium needles (green shank), Tungstone needles, regular needles, and 'red shank home recording needle' as well as 'orange shank long playing needle'. Robert -- would you be willing to do that?? On Apr 26, 2006, at 2:16 AM, Robert Wright wrote: Many of you know my area of interest is technical oddities -- odd sized discs, puzzle records, failed experiments with format, inside-out/vertical/universal cut, and especially early attempts at long play discs. ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank
[Phono-L] Mullen Movie Status Report
Well, very good. What did you think of it? - Original Message - From: Peter Fraser pjfra...@alamedanet.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 11:17 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Mullen Movie Status Report Group - The DVD arrived from our friendly donor in yesterday's mail, and I'll start cranking out the copies this week. Tomorrow night I'll go get some mailers and then I'll be able to quote the cost. Those of you with no-fee Paypal accounts (that is, the kind linked to your bank account, not your credit card) will be able to pay me by that method (or if you want to pay the surcharge you can use that other type of Paypal account). The rest of you can send me a money order or check or even cash - i don't see it going past $5. I'll keep you posted as things progress. Shooting to mail them out on this coming Saturday. -- Peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net -- A: Maybe because some people are too annoyed by top-posting. Q: Why do I not get an answer to my question(s)? A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank
[Phono-L] Edison LP machine w/both reproducers
Without looking it up, I seem to recall that the C1 is the most expensive radio combination that Edison made, and thet VERY few still exist.. As yoiu probably know, I'm not an Edison fan, and I really don't aspire to own an Edison player of any sort, but there are lots of people who'd kill for one, especially a C1. Remember peter, You DO know how to ship big radios, and busting one up for parts is criminal...even if I'd never want one myself. Doug. Houston - Original Message - From: Peter Fraser pjfra...@alamedanet.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 11:41 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison LP machine w/both reproducers actually no, i used my flash (during the daytime) to fill in the shady bits, and the reflectors in the lenses picked it up. On May 27, 2006, at 8:35 PM, john robles wrote: YOu left your parking lights on, Peter. :-P Peter Fraser pjfra...@alamedanet.net wrote: Hi - I picked it up today, mainly because the guy seemed like he had another guy waiting in the wings, and i didn't want to waffle and chance missing out. It's the smallest model, the C-1. It's in presentable shape, but borderline in terms of too-nice-to-discard. They only made these for about a year, so the rarity factor is large but the shipping cost for the cabinet may doom it to a mechanism-only deal. Here are pictures: http://web.mac.com/pjfraser/iWeb/Phono/ click the link at the top of the page to get to the page entitled Edison Long Play Console let me know what you think, and if interested in purchasing, email me off list. On May 25, 2006, at 12:16 PM, Peter Fraser wrote: Crew - Semi-amazingly, a complete Edison LP Console has turned up locally. If anyone's seriously interested, i'll go check it out. It has both reproducers (stylus condition unknown). The cabinets aren't very attractive, and tough to ship of course...but as sacrilegious as it is, i'd have no qualms about shipping just the mechanism/reproducers if someone wants it. Funny how we were just talking about such things... -- Peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net -- A: Maybe because some people are too annoyed by top-posting. Q: Why do I not get an answer to my question(s)? A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank -- Peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank
[Phono-L] Edison LP machine w/both reproducers
I have the Edison radio service manual, and the models prefixed as C are combination models, while the R sets are radio only. There were only about 3 models of each, as I recall, without digging it out. They only offered radios for about a year. - Original Message - From: John Maeder appywan...@hotmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 9:13 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison LP machine w/both reproducers Actuall Doug, that is an R-1 you are thinking of . . . the 'C' suffix indicated 'console' in the case of the Long Play machines. From: Peter Fraser pjfra...@alamedanet.net Reply-To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison LP machine w/both reproducers Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 17:57:40 -0700 As usual, he's right. Also, correction: The LP console model designation is 1C (as in a series 1C, 2C, 3C, 4C), not C1. On May 28, 2006, at 5:12 PM, Doug wrote: Without looking it up, I seem to recall that the C1 is the most expensive radio combination that Edison made, and thet VERY few still exist.. As yoiu probably know, I'm not an Edison fan, and I really don't aspire to own an Edison player of any sort, but there are lots of people who'd kill for one, especially a C1. Remember peter, You DO know how to ship big radios, and busting one up for parts is criminal...even if I'd never want one myself. Doug. Houston - Original Message - From: Peter Fraser pjfra...@alamedanet.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 11:41 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison LP machine w/both reproducers actually no, i used my flash (during the daytime) to fill in the shady bits, and the reflectors in the lenses picked it up. On May 27, 2006, at 8:35 PM, john robles wrote: YOu left your parking lights on, Peter. :-P Peter Fraser pjfra...@alamedanet.net wrote: Hi - I picked it up today, mainly because the guy seemed like he had another guy waiting in the wings, and i didn't want to waffle and chance missing out. It's the smallest model, the C-1. It's in presentable shape, but borderline in terms of too-nice-to-discard. They only made these for about a year, so the rarity factor is large but the shipping cost for the cabinet may doom it to a mechanism- only deal. Here are pictures: http://web.mac.com/pjfraser/iWeb/Phono/ click the link at the top of the page to get to the page entitled Edison Long Play Console let me know what you think, and if interested in purchasing, email me off list. On May 25, 2006, at 12:16 PM, Peter Fraser wrote: Crew - Semi-amazingly, a complete Edison LP Console has turned up locally. If anyone's seriously interested, i'll go check it out. It has both reproducers (stylus condition unknown). The cabinets aren't very attractive, and tough to ship of course...but as sacrilegious as it is, i'd have no qualms about shipping just the mechanism/reproducers if someone wants it. Funny how we were just talking about such things... -- Peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net -- A: Maybe because some people are too annoyed by top-posting. Q: Why do I not get an answer to my question(s)? A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank -- Peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank
[Phono-L] Edison Phonograph Designation Confusion
I'm going to double check on this. I recall seeing in the Edison service notes, that the C 1 had a coule of 50s driving the speaker, but they were not in push-pull. They were a single ended output stage, with the 50s in parallel. That was sort of disappointing to me that they'd cut that corner on so expensive a set, but it was a Splitdorf radio, and I'm sure that the Edisons were glad to have something in their stores. --- Original Message - From: Bruce Mercer maxbu...@sigecom.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 6:18 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Phonograph Designation Confusion There seems to be a lot of confusion here. The Long Play machines were all acoustic. 1926 Their model numbers were: No. 1C No. 2C. No. 3C. No. 4C and the Consolette. These were all non-electric. ... The electrically amplified radio/phonograph combinations of 1928 were identified as: (the C in this case denotes combination as in radio/phonograph combination) C-1 top of the line, two oversized Peerless speakers and a P-P amplifier using a pair of 250 tubes $1100.00 Sold less tubes. C-2 still expensive but used one Peerless oversized speaker and one 250 tube $495.00 Sold less tubes. Both of these machines played both Edison Diamond Discs and regular needle cut records. There was also offered at this time an R-1 and R-2, both straight radios with no phonograph that used the same chassis as the C-2. This chassis was made by Splitdorf Radio which Edison bought to be able to get into the radio business and circumvent the RCA patents. The chassis was copper color. The C-1 and C-2 both had doors. The R-1 had doors, the R-2 did not. In 1929 the C-4 was introduced that played only the needle cut records. This chassis was Edison designed. It used a pair of 45's for P/P amplification and the chassis were painted dark green. There was also a line of straight radios using this same chassis. I forget their numbers right now. There is a C-4 on ebay right now being referred to as an R-7. If people would look at the ID tag it plainly states C-4. There was no C-3. I hope this clears up the confusion. And yes, I would just about kill for a C-1. :-))) Bruce ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank
[Phono-L] Early Pickup Repair
You got it right, Bruce. I've restored my own pickups, beause I am able to, and never have done it as a service. But for the average guy who can't or doesn't want to restore pickup heads, George is the guy. You can't speak well enough of him. - Original Message - From: Bruce Mercer maxbu...@sigecom.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 12:23 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Early Pickup Repair The ONLY person I would trust with my pickups is George Epple gke(at)verizon.net. ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
[Phono-L] Victrola VE 15-1: Electrola Hyperion
The answer to the pickup materials is answered later. The back bracket is pot metal. The pickup back piece is, but somehow always survives. Pickup head covers are always copper or brass. They always hold up well. As far as the dynamic speaker goes, once they converted to it, they never would have gone back to the magnetic Loudspeaker 100. It would have been like going back to acoustical racording after the change. As far as the break poinbt from magnetic to dynamic, there was one serial num,ber with the LS100 speaker, and the next one had the LS104. We'd have to know who had those two sets, and I'm afraid that it will never happen. The Hyperion is a fairly scarce set. I can supply a pix of the Brunswick P-11 and a 3NW8 that I have. They're handsome sets. Remember that Brunswick was a furniture manufacturer, so their cabinets are beautiful in their own styles. And, since Victor made their own furniture, they too, are beautiful in design and have survived the years miraculously. I have a Victor 9-18 that has the most perfect cabinet possible, and it was made in late 1928. There are quite a few excellent examples that collectors have. That's the reason that people like us revere these and other masterpieces from history.
[Phono-L] Victrola VE 15-1: Electrola Hyperion
with about 35 watts per channel to drive them). You need to remember that in those big arenas and stadiums, though the amplifiers have high power capability, the typical power to drive the systems in them is a couple of watts in a typical program. Another important item to remember that the majority of power in sound is in the low frequencies. You don't hear many low frequencies in a stadium! Now, I consider myself an audio nut of sorts, I would prefer to avoid contact or discussion about single ended amplifiers and the stuff mantioned above. Much of it is against engineering principles. I'm a graduate electrical engineer, and most of the audiophools are not. I believe there is one company left in the world that makes uses high-quality, field-coil drivers. I think it is a French company, but I'm not sure. Google it, if you are curious. Thanks, but I'm not! One easy way to spot a field coil speaker is to look at the number of wires going to the unit. If there are more than four wires connected to the speaker, it is probably a field coil unit. And, in many cases, the field coil of the speaker is open and visible. The nicer and more expensive speakers had a cover pot over the field, be it PM or EM (Electro-Dynamic). As Randy says, look for the extra wires. Randy Minor Thanks, Randy , Doug. Houston ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ From lhera...@bu.edu Fri Mar 3 19:02:30 2006 From: lhera...@bu.edu (Ron L'Herault) Date: Sun Dec 24 13:11:27 2006 Subject: [Phono-L] Early Pickup Repair In-Reply-To: 000b01c63ee7$416f2b90$af9bb...@vaio Message-ID: 000801c63f38$13c5b3c0$2f01a...@ronlherault Where is Mr. Epple located? Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Bruce Mercer Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 12:24 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Early Pickup Repair The ONLY person I would trust with my pickups is George Epple gke(at)verizon.net. ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
[Phono-L] ebay fraud and caveat emptor
It can mean but one thing. Suckers are bigger and richer as time goes by. They're having a high bidder contest. Ain't it fun to watch? - Original Message - From: Mike Stitt m...@oldcranky.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 10:04 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] ebay fraud and caveat emptor HEY! Every time this clock or its twin sells, it goes for more$. What do I know! And you thought the real estate market was hot. Well back to painting dials.. oldcranky Don't forget the eBay sellers motto...I don't know much about these, butlol Mike ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
[Phono-L] Victrola XII
I've been reading about this crank problem, and tgrying to figure out an easy way out. From what I can perceive, the crank has had the end cut off? Or is there some problem with the female part in the motor? If the crank has a problem, wouldn't it be reasonable to machine the threads and the end nose on a piece of bar stock the proper diameter, then machine the crank handle pin and thread in the opposite end, form the bends, then heat treat it (They are hardened)? I'd be interested to hear if I get this correctly. - Original Message - From: Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu To: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 11:12 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victrola XII I think the ball bearing idea is the easiest way out, as long as it is small enough to drop out of the crank easily. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Richard Rubin Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 8:24 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Victrola XII O.K., I've checked around on this one and now I need some advice. I have a Victrola XII which I've been restoring for some time now, and it's coming along well. The motor is in fine shape, with one exception: The winding shaft. At some point its its history, the tip broke off. I'm not sure just how much, but some of it's gone. The good news is that there's still enough threading on it to make it usable; the bad news is that the tip, which extends beyond the threaded part (I don't know exactly how much beyond -- anyone out there know?) is supposed to stop the winding key from screwing on too far. So, I have a few options: 1. I could get a winding shaft off another XII motor. This is my first choice, and if someone has a parts XII motor, I'd really like to hear from you. 2. I could try to modify a winding shaft from another motor, though I'm not sure if any others are even suitable to that purpose. 3. I could have someone make a me a new one, using my old one and the specs as a guide; again, if anyone out there knows the exact specs, I'd really like to hear from you. 4. I could leave the shaft alone and insert something into the winding key -- a ball bearing, for instance -- to keep it from screwing on too far. So, as I said, if someone has a shaft or knows where I can get one, please let me know. Likewise, if you have the exact specs for the shaft, again, I'd appreciate hearing from you. But I guess I'd also like to hear which course you all think I should pursue if option #1 doesn't work out. Is it better to modify another one, to try and make a new one, or to slightly (and invisibly) modify the crank? Thanks in advance for your opinions. ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
[Phono-L] snazzy cabinet
This shows an oil lamp? - Original Message - From: cranke...@comcast.net To: Phono-L@oldcrank.org Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 3:35 PM Subject: [Phono-L] snazzy cabinet Has anyone seen this? It really is a work of art!!! Bill http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemcategory=4059item=6215003926 ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
[Phono-L] snazzy cabinet
It probably was a model cabinet for a company in a trade show. They did a nice job on it, but it's a little overdone as I see it. I'd describe it as a Frilly Dilly. - Original Message - From: cranke...@comcast.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 5:42 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] snazzy cabinet oops! -- Original message -- From: aph4...@aol.com In a message dated 1/29/2006 1:36:20 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, cranke...@comcast.net writes: Has anyone seen this? It really is a work of art!!! Bill http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemcategory=4059item=6215003926 That link doesn't work--unless you were intending to direct us to a cranberry oil lamp. ---Art Heller ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
[Phono-L] the other list
Heck, my name is still on Phonolist, but under my old ISP address. I can't get on it because the old address is dead. So, I had applied to re-enter it twice, and was turned down. My pictures still are on his group. So, someone suggested getting on the old time Victrola list, and there I sit. I imagine that P. Flint has a hard on about me, because I like later stuff than he does. So, I'm happy without him. - Original Message - From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] the other list Hi Bill, on list The owner of the other list only accepts new members at certain times; therefore, you can wait up to six months until you are able to join as the pool of accepted members only get accepted in groups. Phono L is easy to join and I have not encountered any problems on Phono L, Loran has been wonderfully supportive. I was Rammed once on phonolist by a member for posting too often, so now I rarely post on phonolist. Steve Hi all, Someone mentioned in and ealier post re:Frick's Freaks,about the other list. What's up with that list? I applied for membership back in Sept. prior to joining this list and jumped through the pre-requsite hoops that joining demanded. You know, name, rank, serial number, was my grandfather's Great Dane a communist, etc. I waited the 90 days and even received the refusal from Yahoo as I was told I would in the original application, apparently it was SOP. However, after the 90 days...nothing. I emailed an inquiry about my acceptance and never received a response. Is this list Kaput, or what? Bill ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
[Phono-L] Is Phonolist Still Operating?
It would never surprise me if PF got it in for everyone and kicked a bunch out. . - Original Message - From: Dan Kj- ediso...@verizon.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 11:17 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Is Phonolist Still Operating? I've gotten several Phonolist items, today and over the past several days ... seems fine to me ! - Original Message - From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 11:00 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Is Phonolist Still Operating? Hi Rick, I just noticed the same thing, it must be down. Steve Hello All, Although my allegience is here on Phono-L I just noticed that I have gotten no postings from the other list for quite some time. I have been a member there also for quite some time. Has anyone heard from them? Sincerely, Rick A. Jorgensen ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
[Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors
Let me insert another thought or two if I may. I'm one of those abominable wretches who collects and restores those things called Radios. But, the similarity comes with refinishing or repairing cabinets. Firstly, phonographs and radios both never were varnished. While there might have been an isolated exception, shellac was used prior to 1925, and nitrocellulose lacquer after that year. There were some hangers-on after '25, of course. You can use Varnish, of course, but you're just making life hard for yourself .I used to use varnish, until I learned the facts. Now, on the veneer grafting issue. If you want to patch in veneer, first, you'll want to get a piece that matches the surrounding grain that you are repairing. Then, with possibly 220 grade wet-dry sandpaper, feather-edge the periphery of the hole in the cabinet veneer (the area that you're going to repair). Then, take the patching piece, cut a little bigger than the area to be filled. and glue it over the hole, overlapping the edges. Clamp it, using a piece of soft rubber, so as to press the new patch into the welled area. Let it harden, at least overnight. After the glue is well set, block sand the patch to where it blends into the rest of the veneered surface. It works like a champ. I',ve done it a few times, and the repair is all but imperceptable. I use Franklin's Titebond. but there are other good glues that do just as well. - Original Message - From: bob rvu...@comcast.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 11:55 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors Matching old finishes is pretty tricky. I find the best way to do this is to use old veneer that is similar the original used on the piece. I try to save veneer from old pieces that are too far gone to restore. Most old veneer is finished with a stain varnish. It can be sanded off easily. The key is not to remove the filler in the veneer.. I cut the section to be patched with razor blade held at a 45 degree angle. Then I feather sand the edge of the patch at a similar angle. If the veneer is too thick, sand it form the back side with coarse sandpaper. When it fits properly you can glue it in with white glue. You can then use any stain you like to darken the patch to match the piece if necessary. I usually use gel stains that can be wiped on with a rag. After a few minutes you can wipe off the excess. The more you remove the lighter the color will be. When your satisfied with the color you can clear coat the area to achieve a gloss similar to the rest of the piece. The clear coat may darken the color a little so it's best to make some sample pieces with both the stain and clear coast finish on them before you finish the patches on your piece. I think this technique will also work on a complete piece if you can find a piece of old veneer large enough to cover a new piece of wood. RMV - Original Message - From: Mark Albertson mark.albert...@comcast.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 11:30 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors Ken: I see that no one is jumping in here. So I will try to give you some pointers. Each collector has his or her preference as to finishes. Some use original shellac (orange or clear). Others like oils, and yet others like lacquer based products for big jobs such as cabinets or uprights. When it comes to these choices, the size of the job matters as does what one is most comfortable with. The application also matters...ie: spray vs. rubbed on vs. ragged on. So, choosing your refinishing medium is really a personal choice as to what your comfortable with and trying to accomplish. By the sounds of it, you have original finish machines that need a replacement board here or there and the question is how to match finishes...new to the old. Well, my experience suggests a great deal of patience, a practice board, and a variety of lighting conditions. Patience is obvious as is a practice board identical to the wood you will be working with. Different lighting (natural vs. fluorescent, vs. incandescent) will cause colors to act differently, so it's important to go slow and check in different lights at different times using the medium of your choice. But you need a product to mix with your shellac, minwax oil etcread on. I have found that the best product for dialing in and matching finishes is an alcohol based anyline dye specifically made by the Wood Finish Supply Company. They sell a metalized extract concentrate dye mixed in MEK. The advantage of these dyes is that they dissolve in any base medium you like to work in (shellac, oil, lacquer..etc.) and come in a host of colors for very precise color control (one drop at a time). In addition, the
[Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors
That's right. Lacquer finishes are a little harder to work with than shellac, because lacquer disolves slower. Shellac dissolves RIGHT NOW. The rewarding thing about shellac is that you can brush on alcohol carefully, and you see the original finish right away. I usually polish out the finish after it hardens, then shoot on a coat of lacquer to help protect the shellac against things like water or spills that can hurt shellac easily. That's up to the individual party, though. In general, phonographs had beautiful finishes, and I like to see them in their original glory. many others perfer to have them in clean, but their aged appearance. Again, an individual preference. If you have a finish that's checked or blushed, as lacquer does do, after getting it thoroughly clean (as with any finish), brush on RETARDED lacquer thinner. You get retarder from automotive paint suppliers, and mix about a 50-50 solution with your thinner. In most cases, you can get the lacquer finish back to good condition by brushing carefully with an artist's brush. If you're going to use new lacquer over the original, as I've done a lot, you'll need to reconstitute the old lacquer with the retarded thinner. The problem is that the plasticizer (the thuinner) has dried out of the lacquer, and it's just dry cellulose after all those years. It needs to be revitalized before you put new lacquer over it. - Original Message - From: Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors So, if Bob's console is later and has nitrocellulose lacquer on in, will a wash with Lacquer thinner remove it? (Used in a well ventilated/spark and flame free area of course.) Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org]on Behalf Of Doug Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 2:41 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors Let me insert another thought or two if I may. I'm one of those abominable wretches who collects and restores those things called Radios. But, the similarity comes with refinishing or repairing cabinets. Firstly, phonographs and radios both never were varnished. While there might have been an isolated exception, shellac was used prior to 1925, and nitrocellulose lacquer after that year. There were some hangers-on after '25, of course. You can use Varnish, of course, but you're just making life hard for yourself .I used to use varnish, until I learned the facts. Now, on the veneer grafting issue. If you want to patch in veneer, first, you'll want to get a piece that matches the surrounding grain that you are repairing. Then, with possibly 220 grade wet-dry sandpaper, feather-edge the periphery of the hole in the cabinet veneer (the area that you're going to repair). Then, take the patching piece, cut a little bigger than the area to be filled. and glue it over the hole, overlapping the edges. Clamp it, using a piece of soft rubber, so as to press the new patch into the welled area. Let it harden, at least overnight. After the glue is well set, block sand the patch to where it blends into the rest of the veneered surface. It works like a champ. I',ve done it a few times, and the repair is all but imperceptable. I use Franklin's Titebond. but there are other good glues that do just as well. - Original Message - From: bob rvu...@comcast.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 11:55 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors Matching old finishes is pretty tricky. I find the best way to do this is to use old veneer that is similar the original used on the piece. I try to save veneer from old pieces that are too far gone to restore. Most old veneer is finished with a stain varnish. It can be sanded off easily. The key is not to remove the filler in the veneer.. I cut the section to be patched with razor blade held at a 45 degree angle. Then I feather sand the edge of the patch at a similar angle. If the veneer is too thick, sand it form the back side with coarse sandpaper. When it fits properly you can glue it in with white glue. You can then use any stain you like to darken the patch to match the piece if necessary. I usually use gel stains that can be wiped on with a rag. After a few minutes you can wipe off the excess. The more you remove the lighter the color will be. When your satisfied with the color you can clear coat the area to achieve a gloss similar to the rest of the piece. The clear coat may darken the color a little so it's best to make some sample pieces with both the stain and clear coast finish on them before you finish the patches on your piece. I think
[Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors
Not rerally thin stuff. You'll want to use veneer pieces at least as thick as the original . When you clamp it down, it will sink into the little well in the existing veneer. That's why you use a soft rubber piece to push it into place when it's glued and clamped. - Original Message - From: Robert Wright esrobe...@hotmail.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 3:10 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors Sage advice from an abominable wretch! I love radios too, though I don't have any anymore. My first was a Silvertone (I know, I know) AM/78rpm/wire recorder (I said I know!) that I intended to completely re-veneer with a very pronounced grain of some kind... maybe green or purple varnish... *ahem*. Hey, I was young and needed the money. If it hadn't been missing a couple of teeth on the gear that undulated the wire recorder head, I probably would've (egads) finished the thing. I wish now I would have -- with you guys and gals, it would've been worth a good laugh or two. And you KNOW I woulda put it up on eBay at some point. I did get about 5 pieces of it veneered, though, and Doug's patching advice would've come in handy. Hey Doug, is there any special trick to get the veneer soft enough to really fill the hole exactly, or do you just use extremely thin veneer? Best, Robert - Original Message - From: Doug cdh...@earthlink.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors Let me insert another thought or two if I may. I'm one of those abominable wretches who collects and restores those things called Radios. But, the similarity comes with refinishing or repairing cabinets. Firstly, phonographs and radios both never were varnished. While there might have been an isolated exception, shellac was used prior to 1925, and nitrocellulose lacquer after that year. There were some hangers-on after '25, of course. You can use Varnish, of course, but you're just making life hard for yourself .I used to use varnish, until I learned the facts. Now, on the veneer grafting issue. If you want to patch in veneer, first, you'll want to get a piece that matches the surrounding grain that you are repairing. Then, with possibly 220 grade wet-dry sandpaper, feather-edge the periphery of the hole in the cabinet veneer (the area that you're going to repair). Then, take the patching piece, cut a little bigger than the area to be filled. and glue it over the hole, overlapping the edges. Clamp it, using a piece of soft rubber, so as to press the new patch into the welled area. Let it harden, at least overnight. After the glue is well set, block sand the patch to where it blends into the rest of the veneered surface. It works like a champ. I',ve done it a few times, and the repair is all but imperceptable. I use Franklin's Titebond. but there are other good glues that do just as well. - Original Message - From: bob rvu...@comcast.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 11:55 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors Matching old finishes is pretty tricky. I find the best way to do this is to use old veneer that is similar the original used on the piece. I try to save veneer from old pieces that are too far gone to restore. Most old veneer is finished with a stain varnish. It can be sanded off easily. The key is not to remove the filler in the veneer.. I cut the section to be patched with razor blade held at a 45 degree angle. Then I feather sand the edge of the patch at a similar angle. If the veneer is too thick, sand it form the back side with coarse sandpaper. When it fits properly you can glue it in with white glue. You can then use any stain you like to darken the patch to match the piece if necessary. I usually use gel stains that can be wiped on with a rag. After a few minutes you can wipe off the excess. The more you remove the lighter the color will be. When your satisfied with the color you can clear coat the area to achieve a gloss similar to the rest of the piece. The clear coat may darken the color a little so it's best to make some sample pieces with both the stain and clear coast finish on them before you finish the patches on your piece. I think this technique will also work on a complete piece if you can find a piece of old veneer large enough to cover a new piece of wood. RMV - Original Message - From: Mark Albertson mark.albert...@comcast.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 11:30 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors
[Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors
Indeed, you do your cabinet work in at least a somewhat ventilated place. More importantly, you'd use retarded lacquer thinner in a VERY well ventilated place. That's why you can do lots of things in the summer, and not so much in the winter (at least, here in Michigan). And as far as inhaling the alcohol vapors, I'd recommend common sense for that to anyone. That means, not getting to the spout in the can and inhaling heavily. Otherwise, just a little sniff of the alky won't hurt you as you're working the finish. Just don't drink the stuff, either. And above all, never believe what the EPA claims! - Original Message - From: Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu To: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 9:56 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors The fumes of the shellac thinner? 8-) Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Doug Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 6:44 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors How in blazes did my message ever get garbaged up like THAT? - Original Message - From: Doug cdh...@earthlink.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 5:55 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors That' riht. Once saned down, the edge of the repir will be vey difficult to dicern. - Original Message - From: Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 4:23 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors And, if I am understanding the technique correctly, this is why you sand the original to a feather edge. There is no abrupt change in level and the patch can be then sanded to a feather edge to blend it in, right? Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org]on Behalf Of Doug Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 3:45 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors Not rerally thin stuff. You'll want to use veneer pieces at least as thick as the original . When you clamp it down, it will sink into the little well in the existing veneer. That's why you use a soft rubber piece to push it into place when it's glued and clamped. - Original Message - From: Robert Wright esrobe...@hotmail.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 3:10 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors Sage advice from an abominable wretch! I love radios too, though I don't have any anymore. My first was a Silvertone (I know, I know) AM/78rpm/wire recorder (I said I know!) that I intended to completely re-veneer with a very pronounced grain of some kind... maybe green or purple varnish... *ahem*. Hey, I was young and needed the money. If it hadn't been missing a couple of teeth on the gear that undulated the wire recorder head, I probably would've (egads) finished the thing. I wish now I would have -- with you guys and gals, it would've been worth a good laugh or two. And you KNOW I woulda put it up on eBay at some point. I did get about 5 pieces of it veneered, though, and Doug's patching advice would've come in handy. Hey Doug, is there any special trick to get the veneer soft enough to really fill the hole exactly, or do you just use extremely thin veneer? Best, Robert - Original Message - From: Doug cdh...@earthlink.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors Let me insert another thought or two if I may. I'm one of those abominable wretches who collects and restores those things called Radios. But, the similarity comes with refinishing or repairing cabinets. Firstly, phonographs and radios both never were varnished. While there might have been an isolated exception, shellac was used prior to 1925, and nitrocellulose lacquer after that year. There were some hangers-on after '25, of course. You can use Varnish, of course, but you're just making life hard for yourself .I used to use varnish, until I learned the facts. Now, on the veneer grafting issue. If you want to patch in veneer, first, you'll want to get a piece that matches the surrounding grain that you are repairing. Then, with possibly 220 grade wet-dry sandpaper, feather-edge the periphery of the hole in the cabinet veneer (the area that you're going to repair). Then, take the patching piece, cut a little bigger than the area to be filled. and glue it over the hole, overlapping
[Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors
If I may intrude, it's Don Gfell, and his business is called: Sights And Sounds of Edison. His addess is 61 Cherry Street, Milan, Ohio 44846-3093. His e-mails is: dgf...@accnorwalk.com. - Original Message - From: Bob Maffit maff...@bresnan.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 11:45 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors Rob: Do you have the phone number and email address for Don Gefl thanks Bob - Original Message - From: zonophone2...@aol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 3:03 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors hi all i just bought some great stains that are aniline from the garret wade company i got the name from don gefl who does all those great horns you have to ask for it as its not in their catalog but it is like the old time stains their number is 1-800-221-2942 best to all rob ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
[Phono-L] a cheap Idelia?????
I'm not an Edison fancier, much less an expert, but all of the re-doing that the guy purportedly did, anodizing, re-plating, etc. would tend to make the thing far less desirable than a preserved and cleaned-up piece. The comical thing is his starting bid, vs. his desired price. This guy must have a loose wire. And as I write, no bids! - Original Message - From: cranke...@comcast.net To: Phono-L@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 12:10 PM Subject: [Phono-L] a cheap Idelia? This is interesting.. http://cgi.ebay.com/EDISON-IDELIA-D2-CYLINDER-PHONOGRAPH_W0QQitemZ6603884768QQcategoryZ38029QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
[Phono-L] Hoot Mon!!!
..And they do strange things in California!! --- Original Message - From: Peter Fraser pjfra...@alamedanet.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:27 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Hoot Mon!!! say hoot, mon to my dad, who's from the means streets of old Glasgow, and he just might take a poke at you. and he's 80 years old. that aside, a more realistic phrase (of the printable ones) might be oh, aye or ach, away! i think that other one was invented in Hollywood. best, Peter pjfra...@mac.com On Feb 10, 2006, at 8:17 AM, cranke...@comcast.net wrote: Hi all, I'm looking for any bagpipe cylinders, 2-4 minute, it doesn't matter. Also, my GF and I recently purchased a Madame Hendren Dolly Rekord, and are in search of the cylinders that went to it. Thanks in advance, Bill ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
[Phono-L] List Activity
To sum it all up, are you saying for us to: Button up your over quote? - Original Message - From: Loran T. Hughes lo...@oldcrank.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 6:25 PM Subject: [Phono-L] List Activity Folks, Since the list seems to be fairly active these days, I'd like to make a a couple of suggestions to help you manage the flood of emails. First, you can log into your Phono-L account and change your preference to digest. That way, you'll receive only about one email per day, chock full of Phono-L goodness. Please remember, if you reply to the digest, please don't quote the whole dang thing and change your subject line :) My favorite way to manage my inbox is to set up a filter to catch Phono-L emails and stuff them into a folder specifically for the list. For example, I set up a filter in my email client to look for the term [Phono-L] in the subject of the message. It directs the message to a sub-folder of my inbox labeled Phono-L. I can then read them (or not) as time permits. It would also be EXTREMELY HELPFUL if your subject line accurately reflects the content of your post. And please don't over quote in your replies :) Loran ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
[Phono-L] Taft, TR and FDR, was Re: Idelia SOLD
Ah, not really. If you study world history and those who steered the world's course, WWI was in the oven long before it started, and WWII was well along in plans as WWI ended. It's there to read, for those who want to. Doug. Houston - Original Message - From: aarona...@aol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Taft, TR and FDR, was Re: Idelia SOLD In a message dated 2/12/2006 3:06:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, pjfra...@alamedanet.net writes: As a hawk (and imperialist) he certainly would've gotten us into WW1 sooner, I always felt that TR such a strong hawk, that WW1 would not have occured if he was President. I certainly agree with you that without the humilation that the war brought Germany, Hitler his party would not have gained power. ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
[Phono-L] Victrola VE 15-1: Electrola Hyperion
Interesting. The serial number on mine is 1797, and as I have already said, it has the magnetic speaker. I've seen a picture of a later Hyperion with the 104 speaker. It has a great big cast iron field pot on its back, and a 6 inch cone. On the picture I saw, there was a sturdily braced shelf to mount the speaker (It weighs like the blazes). The earlier sets with the nagnetic speaker can easily be spotted by the horseshoe magnet on the speaker Indeed, a dynamic speaker was far superior to a magnetic. It has deep bass response, and far more treble too. Magnetic speakers sound squawky. I have a theory about the change in speakers. When the Orthophonic recordings came out, the Credenza bowled over the listeners. That sold a lot of Victors. Concurrently, RCA was selling a Loudspeaker 104 in a cabinet with amplifier to be used to power and amplify battery sets, especially RCA's Radiola 28. You could have superb sound from this ensemble. In fact, that sound would be better yet than a Credenza! It was RCA who supplied Victor's and Brunswick's electronics from 1926 through the merger in 1929. I believe that if the early sets with direct radiator speakers, like the Hyperion and the Electrola Cromwell were equipped with dynamic speakers so soon, they would out-perform the Credanzas and the Borgia Victors. On Victor day (11-2-25), Victor COULD HAVE HAD dynamic speakers. After the original introduction, and credenzas were selling like hotcakes, then Victor could afford to put the dynamics in the cone speaker phonographs. I have two examples of the RCA powered Electrolas: The Victor 12-15 Electrola and the Brunswick P-11. They must have knocked a new listener onto the floor. So, circuit-wise, conversion of the Hyperion to a 104 speaker was easy. The fil;ter choke in the amplifier was replaced by the 1000 Ohm field in the speaker, and the output transformer changed to match the voice coil in the speaker. I have all of the stuff here to do that, but I wouldn't care to change the set, better as it would sound. As far as building up the foots goes, the screw would tend to help hold the built-up plastic wood to the flat wood. It's like building a mound of plaster on a broken object. You put the screw in the flat piece part way, then pile on the plastic wood in a few layers so as to over-build it. Let it harden (the screw is now buried in the PW. After it's hard, file and sand it to match the contours of the foot. After you finish it off with toned lacquer, nobody'd ever know that it's a repair job. The set is supposed to have a big loop antenna inside the right hand side of the cabinet. thete is a thumb wheel in the top of that panel to rotate the antenna for maximum reception. There isn't an external antenna coil on the set. I already told about putting a coil of wier to the back panel of the set for an external antenna. If you're in a big metropolitan area, the set's already pretty hot, and you'll get a lot of stations, but an external antenna does make a difference. I suppose that they expected yopu to tack the antenna pick-up coil to the bcak panel Maybe tape, but never tacks! One other caution. The volume control on the Radiola panel and the filament control regulate the voltage to the filaments of the X99 tubes. Be very cautious about turning up either control, as you can possibly put too much juice on those tubes, and burn one out. You'll find that X99s are not easy to find! Now, regarding the external speaker jack on the set. I can't safely move my set away from the wall without help, but seem to recall that ther speaker jack is on the lower part of the cabinet. It will be a rouind bakelite faced jack, for a standard phone plug. It cuts out the internal speaker and connects your other speaker that you've plugged in. That jack may not be on the dynamic speaker models. The dynamic speaker isn't documented for the Hyperion in Victor's service bulletins. If you have a speaker jack on your set, you'd probably never use it, anyway. On Victor's Electrolas (the Cromwell, Tuscany, 12-15 and 12-25), there was an input jack to plug in your battery set to use the amplifier in the Electrola. That stuff was cutting-edge technology. - Original Message - From: Richard Rubin richard_ru...@hotmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 2:02 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victrola VE 15-1: Electrola Hyperion Thanks for all the information, Doug. My 15-1 is one of the later ones -- the serial number is 1908, which means it was about two-thirds of the way through the run, and was shipped in the second quarter of 1926 -- but the ID plate reads Hyperion. I'm pretty sure I have the 104 speaker, as it's not a ten-inch speaker. Do you have any idea why Victor switched speakers in the middle of a run? Was the 104 considered to be an improvement over the 100, or the opposite? I'm not sure exactly how to go about rebuilding the feet
[Phono-L] Best-sounding phonographs?
Since I haven't any edison phonographs, the best sounding one I have is the Victrols XVIII. - Original Message - From: Richard Rubin richard_ru...@hotmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 9:42 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Best-sounding phonographs? Here's a question I've wanted to ask everyone here for a while, now: Working off the assumption that Victors are the best-sounding phonographs (which seems to be a general concensus -- please feel free to disagree, though), who would you say made the second-best-sounding machines? Since we need to compare likes to likes, let's limit the field to inside-horn, pre-orthophonic disc phonographs. What do you think? ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank
[Phono-L] Edison and the Tube/bragging on Steve Medved.(NowTesla and Steve)
Edison's problem was that the calculation of AC power distribution involves some pretty heavy mathematics that he couldn't handle. The senior year in electrical engineering is a firestorm of calculations about reactive currents, power factors, phase angles, and more things I've forgotten already. Edison was self-educated, and much of the AC stuff was coming into existence as Edison was building his DC system. But regardless, all of the AC ins and outs were far beyond Edison's capability, so he just stuck with his DC stations. They hung on for many years in some cities. - Original Message - From: diamondisk...@aol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 10:56 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison and the Tube/bragging on Steve Medved.(NowTesla and Steve) Tesla was another nemesis of Edison. He developed A/C current as an alternative to Edison's safer, but less efficient, and more problematic DC systems. Tesla, a native Serb, developed the idea of stepping up voltages to very high levels for transmission, and then stepping them down again for domestic use. Edison thought this was very dangerous. Remember, this was all brand new technology at the time, technology we now take for granted. Edison's system required huge cables that carried lower voltages, at high amperages. Tesla's system was just the opposite. Transmission of power over long distances was also much harder with Edison's D/C system. Look at the battery cables on your car, which carry 12 volts, and then look at the cord on a small household appliance which operates at 120 volts to get an idea of the difference. This battle was waged as an all-out war between the backers of the Tesla/Westinghouse companies, and the Edison companies. Edison's people resorted to tactics that would probably land them in jail today. Edison's men assembled galleries of reporters, shoved stray dogs they'd bought from the neighborhood children out on to a large metal plate, and then hit the juice. The resulting paroxysms of the dying animals, and malodorous smell of burning fur gave more than one observer doubts about the safety of the Tesla/Westinghouse system, because if one of the step-down transformers shorted out, an unsuspecting homeowner could reach to turn on a light bulb, and become one himself. Edison lost out, and the A/C systems we now take for granted covered the country. However, true to form, Edison clung stubbornly to his DC system, and some parts of the Edison Phonograph Works still used D/C power until they were shut down in 1929. As for Steve Medved, he is a wonderfully knowledgeable and helpful person. He is a true enthusiast who likes sharing information as much as he enjoys acquiring it. I am sure that if a reproducer can be made to sing, he is the one to help it find its voice. Randy ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank
[Phono-L] Edison B-19 And Matching Gumwood Cabinet
Gumwood is a good, strong wood with tight, close grain. It's used in household interiors for such things as door casings, baseboards and other things. It's a good wood for cabinets. It's one of several woods, known as whitewoods. It's cheaper than the decorative woods, as walnut, mahogany or oak. It's often the base wood that veneers wre glued on to. You will find that whitewoods, such as basswood and gumwood will not take ordinary stains, so it's easy to add aniline dyes to the shellec or lacquer, and spreay the finish on the bare whitewood. It can be mad to look like any wood you'd ever want. - Original Message - From: phonost...@aol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 5:44 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Edison B-19 And Matching Gumwood Cabinet Hi All, Some years back we purchased a table top Edison B-19, Chalet model also called Bungalo. Both the Edison D.D. phonograph and the record cabinet are made of gumwood. The record cabinet with a 36 record file for diamond discs records was made exclusively by Haag and Bissex of Philadelphia with a patent date of Jan. 4, 1916. I have always had some questions that needed answered about this set. Did Edison make many different style phonograph wooden cases of gumwood? Were the record cabinets made just to match his B-19 phonographs or others? Did Haag and Bissex make other furniture made of gumwood? Does anyone have any information on Haag Bissex fron Phila? Where did gumwood come from, what country? AND, with a note I passed saved in my Edison B-19, the phono came with a light green silk fabric for the grill cloth, where can I find something close to this? Phonograph really needs a new grill cloth! Any help with any of these questions would be much appreciated. Thanks, Joan ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank
[Phono-L] Edison B-19 And Matching Gumwood Cabinet
Probably not. Furniture oil would be a polish, and probably not be able to cover spots where the finish is missing or peeled. - Original Message - From: phonost...@aol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison B-19 And Matching Gumwood Cabinet Thank you for your reply. Yes, the gumwood on the Edison B-19 and D.D. record cabinet looks strong but the wood is dry. Since neither looks like any restoration is in the far future, would furniture oil be the best for the dry wood? In a message dated 04/14/2006 6:29:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cdh...@earthlink.net writes: Gumwood is a good, strong wood with tight, close grain. It's used in household interiors for such things as door casings, baseboards and other things. It's a good wood for cabinets. It's one of several woods, known as whitewoods. It's cheaper than the decorative woods, as walnut, mahogany or oak. It's often the base wood that veneers wre glued on to. You will find that whitewoods, such as basswood and gumwood will not take ordinary stains, so it's easy to add aniline dyes to the shellec or lacquer, and spreay the finish on the bare whitewood. It can be mad to look like any wood you'd ever want. - Original Message - From: phonost...@aol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 5:44 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Edison B-19 And Matching Gumwood Cabinet Hi All, Some years back we purchased a table top Edison B-19, Chalet model also called Bungalo. Both the Edison D.D. phonograph and the record cabinet are made of gumwood. The record cabinet with a 36 record file for diamond discs records was made exclusively by Haag and Bissex of Philadelphia with a patent date of Jan. 4, 1916. I have always had some questions that needed answered about this set. Did Edison make many different style phonograph wooden cases of gumwood? Were the record cabinets made just to match his B-19 phonographs or others? Did Haag and Bissex make other furniture made of gumwood? Does anyone have any information on Haag Bissex fron Phila? Where did gumwood come from, what country? AND, with a note I passed saved in my Edison B-19, the phono came with a light green silk fabric for the grill cloth, where can I find something close to this? Phonograph really needs a new grill cloth! Any help with any of these questions would be much appreciated. Thanks, Joan ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank
[Phono-L] What do you think of this restoration?
You got it! It's happened to most of my cars. - Original Message - From: Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu To: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] What do you think of this restoration? An example of shipwright's disease is when a fellow needs to replace the gaskets in his reproducer. While he is at it, he replaces the diaphragm, and shines up the reproducer body. Then, to make it all look good, he shines the tone arm body but then the horn looks a little shabby so it gets repainted. This just points up the fact that the felt on the turntable has faded so it gets replaced. But having done that one notices how dull the finish of the case is so everything is take out/off so the wood can be refinishedetc. But all he intended to do was replace the sound box gaskets. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of aph4...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 5:17 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] What do you think of this restoration? In a message dated 4/20/2006 2:16:04 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, lhera...@bu.edu writes: Did not remember reading that. Of course there are degrees of good condition too. And then there is shipwright's disease. It strikes a lot of antique car enthusiasts. Ron L That must affect dental workers also! Never heard of it. But I'm sure I know what you're talking about. I flunked shipwright's disease in medical school! l:) ---Art ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank
[Phono-L] RCA microgroove LP demo disc from ca. 1932 - any info??
There are several stories that go with your inquiry. First, 33 1/3 RPM discs began with the Vitaphone discs pressed by Victor, and used for the sound in The Jazz Singer in 1927. In 1932, RCA launched a new Long Playing record that was cut at approximately the same pitch as the regular 78 RPM discs. These records played ay 33 1/3 RPM, ands were pressed in both 10 inch and 12 inch sizes, though I've never seen any 12 inch ones. I have a (very) few of the 10 inch discs. There was a special stylus that was intended for playing them, as you've already observed, and I've never seen one. I have no idea what the grind of the stylus was. I do know that if played with a regular 3 mil stylus, the sound from them is most inferior. It sounds blasty. Many articles tell that the discs were pressed from a material named Victrolac, whatever that was, but I have a 1932 RCA dealer's fact book thet tells thay they were pressed from Vinylite. Figure that one out. These Program Transcriptions disappeared from the Victor catalogues about 1934. Now, on the changer. Victor had sold two model changers before RCA took them over. The first was full of pot metal parts that swelled, and fell apart, but if they were replaced, the changer worked rather well. The second generation Victor changer was a fiasco, and they had to recall them and rework them to the best of their ability. The changer was introduced before it was ready for production, so it is told. Fenimore Johnson had tried to hold it for final refinements thay might have made it more reliable, but was forced to release it. It was an intermix changer, meaning that it could chnage and play mixed sizes of records in its magazine (before it destroyed them!). The third changer to come out of Victor (now, RCA Victor) was in the model sets with a RAE model number. There were five models made in this series. It would change only 10 inch records. The records were held in a cast iron drum-like thing that swung over the turntable, and crudely dragged the bottom disc onto the turntable, after having the preciously played disc lifted and dropped into the swinging magazine. It did work, but unreliably. Records being pulled from the bottom of the stack might not center properly on the turntable, and end up caught in the mechanism as the magazine swung back out of the way. There was a safety clutch in the changer drive, but it worked best if the records were made of steel. In the 1931-32 period, mysteriously, RCA made a phnon combination that was their Radiola 82, with a Capehart model 1012 changer, which WOULD change both 10 and 12 inch records. Interesting that RCA's top line RAE sets could not change 12 inch records, from RCA Victor, the major producer of classical music, and it was almost all on 12 inch discs! As far as 10 inch-only changers, RCA did another one in the 1938 model line, with their junior changer that changed only 10 inch records. You took a changer post off to play 12 inch discs manually, if you wished. In my collection,I do have examples of exch of the changers mentioned above, so I speak from experience. I've serviced a lot of changers in the last 55 years or so. Many have said that RCA never made a good record changer. I'm inclined to agree. - Original Message - From: Robert Wright esrobe...@hotmail.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 5:16 AM Subject: [Phono-L] RCA microgroove LP demo disc from ca. 1932 - any info?? Many of you know my area of interest is technical oddities -- odd sized discs, puzzle records, failed experiments with format, inside-out/vertical/universal cut, and especially early attempts at long play discs. I have a question I intend to ask Kurt Nauck, but I wanted to ask you folks first. I'm repeatedly amazed by the depth and range of the knowledge of this list's members. I bought an RCA Victor demo record on eBay based on the description in its rather elaborate sleeve. It's red/orange flexible cardboard with gold print on the front, RCA VICTOR DEMONSTRATION ALBUM in bold, fat letters -- very 1930's art deco, typical of much RCA Victor design of that era. Inside is a blurb printed on a page of record sleeve material, The Music You Want - When You Want It. It's loaded with typical stuff about how only Victor records give you the full degree of pleasure, years of experience, skilled craftsmen, yadda yadda, with the obligatory plug for the new line of RCA Victor instruments, the rhetoric aimed boldly at consumers (YOUR new Victor phonograph, YOUR home, YOUR new records, etc.). This sheet mentions the differences between Chromium needles (green shank), Tungstone needles, regular needles, and 'red shank home recording needle' as well as 'orange shank long playing needle'. This dates it around the time of RCA's takeover of Victor in 1929 and the hard push for sales they made in the years after with
[Phono-L] RCA microgroove LP demo disc from ca. 1932 - anyinfo??
I too,. have an RCA 331. I believe that it's one of the first sets to have the (then) new RCA Ejector changer. The changer was used from about 1933 or 1934 through the 1938 model year. All models had a magnetic pickup except the last year, which had a crystal pickup. Several other manufacturers used the RCA Ejector changer, and RCA offered it as a component changer in their catalogue sheets. The RCA Ejector, the Capehart 1012 and the General Industries flip-off changer were the three most commonly seen changers until about 1940. They had gotten away from their fixation that only one disc could be on the turntable at a time. The records were stacked on the turntable. The spindle was spring loaded so that it receded into its center, to where there was spindle depth for only one record. In other words, you could depress the spindle down to only one disc height. This kept the last record on the turntable. In addition to the pickup, there was a decorative sort of arm with a nose on it that depressed the spindle the thickness of the top record. Thus, the top disc (the one being played) actually pivoted on the little nose pivot of the arm. While the record played, everything was peaceful, and as the eccentric groove tripped the changer, the pickup raised and swung back to the start position of the records, as selected before hand. The ejector arm swung leftward, skidding the disc away from the center, then raised, and let the disc fall into a padded bin alongside the changer.The ejector arm returned to the center of the turntable, depressing the spindle below the thickness of the top disc for playing. It can look scary, but it didn't have a reputation for brealing records! After the last record played, the ejector pivot nose couldn't eject it, because the spindle couldn't be depressed any further. Thus, the last record repeated. These changers were equipped with the 33 1/3 speed through the 1935 model year. My RCA 381 is one of the last ones. I have a 1936 model D22-1 RCA, and there is no 33 1/3 speed on it. The holes for the selector lever are there, but that's all. I wish that I could post a picture here, but I wouldn't know how to do it It would be a big help. I have about 6 of the RCA sets with the ejector changer. - Original Message - From: Andrew Baron a...@popyrus.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 2:28 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] RCA microgroove LP demo disc from ca. 1932 - anyinfo?? I enjoyed this summary and discourse very much. Nice to have a timeline tied to the evolution of the automatic changer by Victor and RCA Victor. Could you take a moment, when convenient, to comment about how the record-flinger changer, as used on my friend's dual speed RCA 331 (1933) fits into this dialogue? I'd also like to get a sense from you, with your years of interest and experience in this arena, as to how common the 331 radio/phono model is. I've often thought of that era to be the lowest ebb of the phonograph market. My friend with the 331 also has a few of the 12 LP's of that era, and they appear to be VERY much like more modern vinyl LP's, and have labels and sleeves that are very boldly printed with Art Deco motifs. Thanks again for your posting. Andy Baron On Apr 27, 2006, at 2:13 PM, Doug wrote: There are several stories that go with your inquiry. First, 33 1/3 RPM discs began with the Vitaphone discs pressed by Victor, and used for the sound in The Jazz Singer in 1927. In 1932, RCA launched a new Long Playing record that was cut at approximately the same pitch as the regular 78 RPM discs. These records played ay 33 1/3 RPM, ands were pressed in both 10 inch and 12 inch sizes, though I've never seen any 12 inch ones. I have a (very) few of the 10 inch discs. There was a special stylus that was intended for playing them, as you've already observed, and I've never seen one. I have no idea what the grind of the stylus was. I do know that if played with a regular 3 mil stylus, the sound from them is most inferior. It sounds blasty. Many articles tell that the discs were pressed from a material named Victrolac, whatever that was, but I have a 1932 RCA dealer's fact book thet tells thay they were pressed from Vinylite. Figure that one out. These Program Transcriptions disappeared from the Victor catalogues about 1934. Now, on the changer. Victor had sold two model changers before RCA took them over. The first was full of pot metal parts that swelled, and fell apart, but if they were replaced, the changer worked rather well. The second generation Victor changer was a fiasco, and they had to recall them and rework them to the best of their ability. The changer was introduced before it was ready for production, so it is told. Fenimore Johnson had tried to hold it for final refinements thay might have made it more reliable, but was forced to release
[Phono-L] Victor long playing records
Before I read the other related posts, I can MAYBE answer this. Columbia succeded in recording a wide (frequency) range microgroove disc for 33 1/3 speed on a soft material that was beginning to appear on 78 RPM records (Remember RCA's Red Seal Deluxe records?). I'd say that Dr. Goldmark just used the best of all the former techniques and put them together on one new disc. Certainly, Edison went to a microgroove cut, because it made sense. He should have used an electric motor so he would be able to have the 33 1/3 speed for a full playing time. But Edison had an aversion to electric notors in phonographs, though he could have had them; others did. Victor was wise enopugh to use the then standard 33 1/3 speed. Goldmark simply combined those two factors and made his microgroove LP discs. Of course, it was a tad more complicated that that, but it was the logical combination of features, as I see it. One other thing that came to mind. Let's say that Edison patented the microgroove cut in 1925 (or so). His patent would have expired in 1942, 17 years later. Probably an Edison patent was why RCA didn't use a microgroove cut pitch. Was the 33 1/3peed patented? I doubt it. It was in wide use in the the thirties through the forties. But, if Edison did have a patent on his microgroove records, Goldmark was free to use the technique because the 17 year patent life had passed. Now, on the exacr character of materials on the Victor Lp discs, I don't doubt for a second that there was more than one material for the LP records. We're going to have to find someone who has lab notes or something from Victor, explaining all of this. - Original Message - From: Robert Wright esrobe...@hotmail.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 8:03 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor long playing records To Ben, Doug, Peter, and all the fine folks of this list, my profound thanks for your fascinating and thorough contributions on this subject. In a matter of days, I now know more than I had learned through some 15 years of incidental research. I can't thank you enough. A bit more info on materials used: My 12 Stokowski PT's are flexible vinyl (Vinylite?), while all my 10 are the same brittle shellac as normal 78's of the era. I would think Victrolac was a slightly (if at all) modified shellac formula that was more about marketing 'the next next big thing' than being a revolutionary material (no pun intended). I am curious exactly what Z shellac is, a notation I've seen on VE scrolls in Nauck's auctions. We do have two questions so far unanswered, to which I'd like to add a third: 1. Do we have a way to find out the exact dimensions of the stylus intended for use with Program Transcriptions? Does anyone know of a 'white paper' on the subject buried somewhere in the old RCA Victor files, perhaps? 2. Does a complete list of PT's exist anywhere that we know of? Is there a way to know which releases used matrices specially recorded for LP vs. dubbed PT's? 3. If 33.3rpm Vitaphones were a Victor concern (right? weren't they?), and Edison invented the microgroove (as well as the micromicrogroove with his almost unplayable 80rpm LP's), and Victor combined a type of microgroove with their PT LP's, then exactly what did Columbia get credited for inventing in 1948? Again, many thanks to you all, Robert - Original Message - From: eug4not eug4...@bentongue.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 5:36 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Victor long playing records Hi folks, Here is some more info on the old Victor coarse-groove LP records: Victor placed a full page on page 1 of the December 1931 Popular Science Monthly magazine. The caption said: Now.from Radio Headquarters, the amazing Radio- Phonograph that plays the New 30-Minute Records. Shown in the ad was a picture of the newly released 12 LP: Beethoven's 5th symphony, performed by Stokowski and the Philadelphia Orchestra.. It was shown, in playing position on the new RAE-26 radio-phono. The text of the ad talks about 15 minutes of play time on each side of a 12 record. My copy of the Beethoven 12 record (# L7001) has 3 1/8 of recorded wax on each side. Each side plays for 15 1/2 minutes. The calculated number of grooves/inch comes out at 165. L7001 is one of the few classical coarse-groove LP records that were recorded for the purpose, not dubbed. Most were dubbed. The (I think) 1931 Victor catalog has 3 2/3 pages devoted to LP records, the catalog copyrighted in 1934 has 5+ pages, the catalog copyrighted in 1936 has 3, and the catalog copyrighted in 1940 has 1/3 of a page of mostly organ music, oriented to funeral parlors. An interesting stereo creation of some of Duke Ellington's mono performances recorded on coarse-groove LP, made in 1932, was made after the discovery that the performances were
[Phono-L] The Practical Long Play Record
Ayyy-Men! Doug. Houston - Original Message - From: Bruce Mercer maxbu...@sigecom.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 3:50 PM Subject: [Phono-L] The Practical Long Play Record -- 3. If 33.3rpm Vitaphones were a Victor concern (right? weren't they?), and Edison invented the microgroove (as well as the micromicrogroove with his almost unplayable 80rpm LP's), and Victor combined a type of microgroove with their PT LP's, then exactly what did Columbia get credited for inventing in 1948? Again, many thanks to you all, Robert Since Edison did invent the first true microgroove record and a special elliptical stylus for playback, even though they were years ahead of their time in practicality, Columbia can be given credit for marketing the first 'practical' and successful L.P. record. This is in no small part due to the lightweight pickups developed by G.E. and Pickering in '47-'48, such as the G.E. VR. Also, vinylite was an added bonus as a quiet surface with little noise. Without these benefits it too would have been a commercial failure. That Edison was able to process a groove that small and an elliptical stylus in that time is amazing to me. One wonders how much of that work was borrowed by Columbia. You have to remember that even Columbia's L.P. did not have as small a groove as the Edison L.P.. It's easy to see just how significant those light weight pickups were to microgroove records in general. Edison was just way ahead of his time. Bruce ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank
