[Phono-L] Medium tone steel needles
Several months ago, someone mentioned a source in the US for well made medium tone needles. I thought I kept the message but can't find it. If anyone remembers this source, would you please clue me in. Thanks, Ron L ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] 4 spring credenza motor problem
I actually did tear the motor apart a second time, including removing the springs to insure that I didn't inadvertently capture a cat or some other foreign material in the springs. This credenza motor is the first one I've seen this way. It is impossible to reassemble the springs into the cans in correctly. You are probably familiar with springs that catch onto a rivet. Some have a rivet hole on the outer end and inner end. They can be assembled either clockwise or counter clockwise and look correct but when you wind it, the rivet will unhook from the spring, most likely catch the back of the hole or maybe the very end of the spring and try to push the spring the other way, resulting in very obvious damage. Some springs have a crimped inner end instead of the rivet there but still have a rivet on the outside. If this type is assembled incorrectly, I believe the crimp will just push out and the center arbor will spin around without much damage. The system on the motor I have in front of me has the crimped inner part. However, the outer part is just the very end of the spring bent over in a U shape. Touch the palm of your hand with your fingertips. Now relax them a bit.This U catches a long flat plate, which is attached to the spring barrel and with one side slightly bend up. It does not move and the U will only catch on it one way. It cannot be hooked on backwards. Neat, huh? And it is probably cheaper to assemble, if not manufacture. The outer parts of the can were marked so that they could not be transposed. Ron -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Houston Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 12:49 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: RE: [Phono-L] 4 spring credenza motor problem I've been watching this thread, and dagnab it, I still have my aged mind mde up that sumpin' is together bass-ackwards. The only way to ever find out is to take the thing apart again and re-construct the assembly. I haven't studied the effects of having a spring in backwards, so my theories may not mean anything. You realize that this thing is going to have me losing sleep. I'll need to swallow a Melatonin tonight just to have peace! You can bet your sweet bippy that, when I reassemble the 4 spring motor for a VV-XIV I have, that I'll ponder over every part of that thing. BTW, I have heard that white lithium grease is good stuff for these motors. Have you ever heard otherwise? There's a spare 4 spring motor laying around here someplace, and I'd even use it to check on myself when I put the other one together. Seriously, Ron, you wouldn't have to remove any springs from the barrels if you want to check on yourself. If you just remove the barrels from the shafts and the hubs, you can see readily, which way the spring winds up in each end of the barrel. That way, you'll prove conclusively, that I'm wrong. [Original Message] From: Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: 4/30/2009 11:46:43 PM Subject: RE: [Phono-L] 4 spring credenza motor problem They did, indeed feel stiff and winding seems normal. It is gear reduction winding on this type motor, not direct so winding is easy. Ron -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Bob Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 2:05 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 4 spring credenza motor problem When you put the springs back did they feal realy stiff? Does it seem to have good tension when you wind it? I don't know if this will help, but I would let it run down completely and then count the number of turns to get it fully wound. Then ask someone with a Credenza with a good 4 spring motor to do the same and compare the results I didn't see Georges sugestion. What was it? Bob - Original Message - From: Ron L lhera...@bu.edu To: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 12:28 PM Subject: RE: [Phono-L] 4 spring credenza motor problem The owner of the machine said that even with the thump, it played more than three sides. However, the thump was so bad at one point that the needle jumped. I winder if it was so bound up that one or more of the springs acted as if they were smaller/under more tension and so powered the motor longer but not the full 20 min. I also suspected that the springs may have 'softened' over time but I will try George Vollema's gear suggestion before I do anything else. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Bob Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 11:56 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 4 spring credenza motor problem Ron, Did you wind it fully and play it before you changed the grease to eliminate
[Phono-L] 4 spring credenza motor problem
Oh, the thump is gone, thankfully. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Houston Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 11:37 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: RE: [Phono-L] 4 spring credenza motor problem What I was thinking was that when you're packing the spring in the barrel, it can be started either clockwise, or counterclockwise, depending on whether it's the winding nend, where the winding gear is, or where it's the driving end, which attaches to the drive gear. (there must be a better way to say it), but I had wondered if one of the springs could have been started in the wrong direction. If that were done, it might have some funny behavior, or possibly, the motor could not be wound at all. And too, packing directions with a 4 spring motor could give you some strange effects if one spring was inserted in reverse. ? The Victor thump is enough of an annoyance,without having the motor not working properly! [Original Message] From: Ron L lhera...@bu.edu To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: 4/30/2009 10:49:41 AM Subject: RE: [Phono-L] 4 spring credenza motor problem I do have an electric C. This is a repair for someone else. The neat thing about the clip end/bent end springs is that it is impossible to assemble them into the cans in the wrong direction. It is easy to mess them up when you have rivets in the cans and holes on the springs. They do not wind up, and in fact will distort the spring centers, with the real potential for breaking them. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Houston Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 10:05 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: RE: [Phono-L] 4 spring credenza motor problem This is a sticky one. I have a long shot thought. Victor has a procedure in the service notes, that tells you whichn spring to load in the barrel, and its direction of winding.Is it possible that one of the springs could have nbeen installed in reverse? I'm not even sure if the motor could be nwound if that were done, but as I've said, it's a long shot. I have one of those 4 spring jobs apart now, and I've got to study the thing a lot before I re-pack the springs. (Maybe if you got one of those electric Credenzas like I have, you wouldn't have this mess) Cheers Doug. Houston [Original Message] From: Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org; phonol...@yahoogroups.com Date: 4/29/2009 10:55:02 PM Subject: [Phono-L] 4 spring credenza motor problem Hokay, list experts. I need help. The original problem was thumping springs. So, you take them out (done that many times) clean them, and reinstall/relube. This should be pretty straight forward. And these are the ones with the clip outer ends and bent over inner ends. They only go together one way. It winds up fine but only plays 4 sides before it starts to loose power and slow down when you try to play the 5th side. Sometimes it makes a bit of a scraping sound but nothing is hitting the turntable. What have I missed? Thanks, Ron L ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Ultona tone arm won't rotate
Oh, I feel the pain. Ron -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of F. Korzatkowski Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 3:52 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Ultona tone arm won't rotate Hi Ron, I didn't let you down. Another member sugessted I remove the arm and reduce the diameter. I did this and it worked just fine, however, I was able to snatch defeat from the Jaws or Victory when I dropped in the floor and broke it in half. Luckly I was able to put a dowel in it andit works fine. If I have to move the weight towards the front I may have a problem. Thanks again for the help. Joe --- On Thu, 3/19/09, Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu wrote: From: Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Ultona tone arm won't rotate To: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 7:03 PM You got lucky on that one, Joe.? Those metal castings often just break apart.? I've got one with a crack that formed as it just sat there. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of F. Korzatkowski Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 6:47 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Ultona tone arm won't rotate Hello Ron, ? Thanks. ? I put it in the freezer for 20 minutes and then warmed it up kinda quick.? It still didn't move so I took it out to the garage, put it in the vice(carefully padded) and used a padded pipe to rotate it.? It is moving and now can be adjusted to play discs etc.? But the arm has to be removed.? Maybe it'll loosen up in time. I put a small amout of rig greese at the joint and maybe it'll work it's was in in time.? No hurry. The PB spray is a good idea too. I would have not thought of your method. ? Thank you for your interest and assistance. Joe --- On Thu, 3/19/09, Ron L lhera...@bu.edu wrote: From: Ron L lhera...@bu.edu Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Ultona tone arm won't rotate To: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 1:20 PM Joe, You might be able to rotate the head if you put the whole assembly in the freezer for a while.? If that doesn't work, they you could also repeat the freezer and when you take it out, warm the head.???A bit of PB blaster on the joint will help too. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of F. Korzatkowski Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 3:52 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Ultona tone arm won't rotate Hello, ? I'm new. ? I just purchased a Bruswick record player.? It is a cabinet model with bulit in record rack.? It's about 3 feet wide and 21.5 inches deep. The Brunswick all phonographs in one, Model Q, Serial number is 133,774. Last copyright is May 181920. ? My problem is the tonearm wont rotate. The pin lock pin was taken out and it still wond work. It seems to be frozen at the head and the sound shaft. I'm afraid to force it or dump WD-40 into it.? What's the best way to fix this so I could play all the various records.? I didn't know it had three needles on it, so duh.? It does play well with the steel needle. ? I always wanted one of these and but was too stupid/ lazy to investigate prior to buying, but what's new, huh. ? Also anybody know what year it was made. ? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, ? Joe ? ? ? ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ? ? ? ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Need a part made?
That Lancia is parked right next to a red Triumph TR3, my first car. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Bob Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:16 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need a part made? If you thought that was neat, look at the rest of his web sight. All kinds of neat antique cars that he owns repairs and drives. This is the ultimate collecting. - Original Message - From: Ron L lhera...@bu.edu To: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l@oldcrank.org; phonol...@yahoogroups.com; electr...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 9:17 AM Subject: [Phono-L] Need a part made? This talks about antique car parts but should be very useful to us too. http://tinyurl.com/berfgf or the original link, which may get split over two lines: http://widgets.nbc.com/o/47f1317f105123ad/49930a9fc57c735f/47fe70d4555df05a/ 9b5b999b/-cpid/ba4377d3bfd6c ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.21/2014 - Release Date: 03/20/09 06:59:00 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Lyric phonograph
I've got at least one of the Lyric laterals. I believe there was a Pathe connection for a while. I do know that the disk is nicely recorded. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Glenn Longwell Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 11:42 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Lyric phonograph Correction: I was watching '24' when typing this and not sure what I was thinking.? The address of Newark, NJ cited in the link Bruce posted was used on their records when they went to lateral.? This is when they began to use the Never Scratches trademark on the records.? Also, not sure about the lateral but there were 12 vertical records as well.? According to TMW they were to come out in January 1918. Glenn From: Glenn Longwell majesticrec...@snet.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 10:03:18 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Lyric phonograph I've been doing some research on Lyraphone but I still have a way to go.? Here's what I can tell you.? Sutton's ARLC says Lyraphone's trademark claimed Lyric as a phonograph brand since October 1915.? I have communicated with the owner of this machine and the pictures I have show no name of Stewart.? It is clearly a Lyric phonograph made by Lyraphone Co. of America.? These are clearly the same company as the Lyric record label.? The records, however, didn't come out until the fall of 1917.? They were vertical cut.? I also have some label images and sleeves on my website at www.majesticrecord.com/labelsl.htm.? What I was very interested in seeing with this phonograph was whether it played vertical, lateral or both.? It plays lateral only unless there was an adaptor of some sort that I don't know about.? This doesn't surprise me though since there's no mention of Lyraphone starting from 1917 in The TAlking Machine World about being a phonograph producer.? All their ads and announcements talk about records only although there's mention of a Lyric adaptor being produced to play them on lateral machines.? The trade directories from?early 1917 on don't list Lyraphone as a machine producer.? I don't have access to earlier information right now but the one piece of evidence I do have is an article from 1917 referring to their past reorganization. So, at the moment, I have to presume they failed as a machine producer and came back as a record producer with General offices in Manhattan and production in Brooklyn.? The only reference I've found to NJ as Bruce's link showed was after they went into receivership in late 1921 and the company resurfaced with the Lyraphone label (no longer Lyric) and they no longer produced the records.? So, it would appear this phonograph is from 1915 or 1916. When I find their incorporation papers I'll see if they actually started there as well.? I don't have information yet on the location of their phonograph operation except the label on the phonograph, which does say New York. Glenn From: DanKj ediso...@verizon.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 7:33:57 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Lyric phonograph I think these were also sold as Stewart phonographs, which came in green or wood-grain and were also round.? I have a green one. - Original Message - From: bruce78...@comcast.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 7:21 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Lyric phonograph This is a wild guess but I suspect it may be the same Company that made the Lyric Records, I believe those were the records that had the cat on the label. Maybe they got into the production of phonographs at some point in the late teens when the patent on the flat disc record and disc phonographs ran out and many companies jumped into the market at that time. Bruce - Original Message - From: Ryan Barna ryansrecor...@hotmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:15:40 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [Phono-L] Lyric phonograph Can anyone help this gentleman? I can't find anything in my sources about Lyric machines. Please respond to him directly. From: aelitel...@aol.com Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:43:17 -0400 Subject: Wondering if you new any information about my Lyric table top phonegraph To: ryansrecor...@hotmail.com Hi, Ryan I have a Table top crank phonograph, it says LYRIC AND LYRAPHONE CO. NEW YORK. It is round and made of metal but looks like wood. Approximately 15 inches across at it widest spot. I cant seem to find any info on this phonograph on the net? Thanks Jim Schaffer ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono
[Phono-L] Problem Solved
Just put the bad side toward the wall, John 8-). The bracket you are getting is far more valuable to you than the one you are giving away. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of john robles Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 1:29 AM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Problem Solved Hello all A member of the group has scrounged through their vast empir of parts and found me a Victor III bracket. I will trade for my Vic V bracket, as he needs it for a V he is restoring,and we will both be happy. The interesting thing is, the bracet he is sending me is restored on one side and unrestored on the other.? It belonged to a big parts guy who used to take it to shows to illustrate the difference between unrestored and his restoration job. The guy I am getting it from is including a new set of decals, so I look forward to making it look great! And efore you tell me I am trading a much more valuable bracket for a lesser one, I know that, but he is a good friend of min so I don't mind! Thanks to all in the group who helped me and who responded with such great info! That's what makes this board great, camaraderie John Robles! ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Vic 1 horn
I'm trying to help someone find a vintage horn for a Vic 1. He prefers either a Victor horn or an aftermarket one of the period rather than a modern reproduction. He needs the proper elbow as well. Anyone have something suitable? Ron L
[Phono-L] About Brunswick Ultona
Have you removed the motor to look inside? Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of John Sheets Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 12:12 AM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] About Brunswick Ultona I wonder if anybody has hints or tips on replacing the springs on the lid hinges for an Ultona? I have the springs but can't figure how to get at the hinges. Thanks in advance for any tips- John Sheets ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Diamond B stylus size/dimensions.
Does anyone have handy, the dimensions, tip size for the diamond on an Edison Diamond B stylus? If there is a comparable modern stylus, I was thinking of trying to fabricate my own replacement for a worn tip. Thanks, Ron L
[Phono-L] Amberola VIII and cyl cabinet questions
The hole is in the sheet metal cover that goes at the very back of the cabinet behind the neck of the stationary horn. Ron -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Bob Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 10:51 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Amberola VIII and cyl cabinet questions Ron, The Amberola VIII uses a Fireside motor. If you are familiar with that model you can use it as a reference. I've had a couple of these and can't remember any oblong hole in the bed. However, I believe the bed is cast iron and I think it would be rather difficult to cut a hole in it. Is there any black paint like that on the top of the bed in the hole? Bob - Original Message - From: Ron L'Herault lhera...@verizon.net To: phonol...@yahoogroups.com; 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 11:54 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Amberola VIII and cyl cabinet questions I have recently acquired an Amberola VIII that I think someone modified to run on an electric motor once. The electric motor was already gone though as was most of the original spring motor. Sooo, the questions are: 1. What is the original size (OD and diameter at the belt groove bottom) of the pulley on the spring motor. 2. Is this pulley very heavy for its size. 3. Should it have a cork lining to the pulley groove? 4. There is an oblong hole in the back plate to the right of the cut out for the horn neck. I suspect the on/off electrical switch was there but I am not sure. Has anyone seen a hole like this in their VIII? And on a separate note, I've been given a cylinder cabinet, a rather simple design with flat board shelves that have grooves in them into which one glues cardboard pegs. Toilet paper and paper towel inner cardboard tubes are the right size, by the way. The hooks that keep the shelves from pulling all the way out are missing. Anyone have a source for replacement hooks. They are a rather critical component. Thanks, Ron L ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.17/1847 - Release Date: 12/13/2008 4:56 PM ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Victor VV-1-1
I don't think either APSCO or George Vollema have a minimum purchase amount. Having said that however, if you know the size of the pin you need you should be able to source it from a local machinists supply store. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of John Selph Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 12:35 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Victor VV-1-1 Can anyone tell me where I can purchase the tapered pin that goes through the spindle and drives the platter for the above phono? That is the last piece that I need to complete this unit, and I'm not in a position to order other parts to reach a minimum purchase amount as required from most dealers. Thanks, John Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut. --Ernest Hemingway ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Curious Edison artifact on eBay
I think that is the way the projector is supposed to look. It is missing its lens. They were not pretty affairs and the wooden parts were often cut and modified for instance, to add a take up spool rather than to let the film dump into a bag. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Baron Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 11:20 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: [Phono-L] Curious Edison artifact on eBay What do you all make of this? The seller describes it as a peephole device, but the original serial number plate reads Projecting Kinetiscope. The cabinet at first glance appears to be home made, but the age of it seems honest; not faked to look old. The external hardware certainly appears to be age-appropriate, and yet the cabinet wood looks like pine or fir, which would be odd for the time. The mechanism appears intact, but I don't see anything that's obviously involved with projection. Is this part of a larger affair, or something made from a more complete device to adapt it to a different use? EDISON KINETOSCOPE CAMERA PHONOGRAPH RARE FILM VIEWER Item number: 110320165169 Andy Baron Santa Fe ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Music Box springs
Thanks to all who've responded. Nancy's name comes up the most. Mainsprings come from Dennis Valente at APSCO according to a source who spoke with Nancy about it. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of zonophone2...@aol.com Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 11:56 AM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Music Box springs hi ron you might try nancy fratti music boxes or _Nancy Fratti Music Boxes_ (http://www.nancyfrattimusicboxes.com/) Nancy Fratti Music Boxes (formerly Panchronia Antiquities) PO Box 400 Canastota, NY 13032-0400 USA 315-684-9977 In a message dated 12/1/2008 10:02:58 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, lhera...@bu.edu writes: List mates, This is a bit off topic, but ISTR that some of our members also work on music boxes.
[Phono-L] Music Box springs
List mates, This is a bit off topic, but ISTR that some of our members also work on music boxes. A friend of mine has asked me to repair the spring in a music box he owns (I have not seen it yet and have just e-mailed him to ask for the brand/model). So, if anyone has information about parts suppliers for Music Boxes, particularly in the North East USA (I'm in MA and the machine is in CT), or can recommend a reputable repair person in the North East USA, I'd appreciate it. I've already cautioned him that music box springs are even more powerful than phono springs, told him about sharp edges etc. I've successfully replaced quite a few phono mainsprings and still have all my original functioning extremities, digits and eyes. 8-). Ron L
[Phono-L] Victor D ID Plate
I noticed and thought the same thing, Bob. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Bob Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 7:12 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor D ID Plate Did anyone notice the crank? This doesn't look like any Victor crank I've ever seen before. I suspect it is not correct for the machine. - Original Message - From: phonol...@mac.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:48 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor D ID Plate This is a dealer tag. Lyon and Healy did this for a short period. They put their own celluloid tag in place of the Victor dataplate and put the real dataplate inside. On Nov 20, 2008, at 7:16 PM, c5...@aol.com wrote: Has anybody seen the type of ID plate that does not have any serial or model number, like the Victor D on eBay #270305150373? The plate on the front has nothing and the plate on the bottom of the inside has the serial and model. Neither my early or late D has this type ID plate. I have never seen one on the inside. **One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/ 10075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com/? optin=new-dp %26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom0001) ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.8/1801 - Release Date: 11/20/2008 9:11 AM ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Television Trivia - Leave It To Beaver
I bought my Vic Type 6 (as the ID tag states) with steel and brass horn about 1971 at an estate auction for $100. It was not exactly a song and dance but it was pretty reasonable. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Kuglarb at wmconnect.com Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 2:52 PM To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Television Trivia - Leave It To Beaver Hi all. You know, we lovers of vintage phonos can't get away from them even while watching the old sitcom Leave It To Beaver. I was going through some records this morning and the television just happened to be on. I just happened to look up and could hardly believe my eyes. Ward and June were talking in front of a gorgeous Victor VI with a speartip horn! Yep, a Victor VI machine! I called for my bride who happened to be downstairs so that she could see it. I immediately did some research on the episode: The Title: Happy Weekend Year Ran: 12/25/1958 I wish that I could have been the set director and would have been able to make an offer on that 50 year old (at that time) phonograph. One could have probably got it for a song and dance (no pun intended). The only thing is, I was only 1 month and 9 days old at the time. This means that I turn the big 5-0 myself next month! Anyway gang, just thought that I'd share this with you. Take care and God bless. Brantley Williston, S.C. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Borri Cylinders...
He's a huge devotee. Ron -Original Message- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Peter Fraser Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 2:03 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Borri Cylinders... actually it makes him either a huge devotee...or a crackpot. On Sep 24, 2008, at 6:55 PM, C5fan at aol.com wrote: I believe he bought the name and the rights years ago just like the company in India that bought the name and rights to the HMV's that we call crapophones. That is why he has made this claim and I guess it does make him the successor. . In a message dated 9/24/2008 9:10:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, john9ten at pacbell.net writes: Sounds like a shady guy. The one thing I never liked about his business is that he claimed to be successor to the original Edison Phonograph Works...to me that is just plain dishonest. --- On Wed, 9/24/08, John Pisano jpisano at cox.net wrote: From: John Pisano jpisano at cox.net Subject: [Phono-L] Borri Cylinders... To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 2:49 PM I met Shawn Borri at the MME show in New Jersey a few years back. I traded him and his partner a shaving machine in exchange for eight cylinders. I received two cylinders at the show and he was going to make the rest when he got home. I gave him the shaver at the show. This was several years ago. I never did receive the cylinders. I have e-mailed him several times since and he has e-mailed me back stating he would send the cylinders as recently as a year ago. I have never received them and have since given up. Obviously I would not do business with him again. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org **Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/? NCID=emlcntuswall0001) ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Columbia BC friction wheel drive
If my friend dismantles his reproducer, I will see about getting dimensions, materials and the weight of the weight to reproduce a set. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Mobility Scooters Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 11:08 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Columbia BC friction wheel drive Greg Fantastic to see one of these machines working so well. Very, very well done. I have a BC missing the Stylus and weight. Can anyone out there please help me find one. Many thanks Tony McCarthy New Zealand Or email me mobilityscooters at xtra.co.nz -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org]On Behalf Of Steven Medved Sent: Thursday, 11 September 2008 10:53 a.m. To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Columbia BC friction wheel drive Greg, Wonderful of you to share this, thanks so much. Steve From: gbogantz1 at charter.net To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:47:37 -0400 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Columbia BC friction wheel drive I just received this link to a forum thread devoted to the Columbia BC. Reid Welch has fitted new friction parts to a BC and has had good success with them. He even includes a video of his machine in operation! The only one on the internet, I think. There's hope for us BC owners yet! Good stuff. Enjoy: http://www.forum.condorcup.com/viewtopic.php?f=7t=20p=59#p51 Greg Bogantz - Original Message - From: Zonophone2006 at aol.com To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 5:16 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Columbia BC friction wheel drive paul baker used to restore these but he takes a long time to do it In a message dated 8/30/2008 3:49:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, steve_noreen at msn.com writes: Hi Greg, Does anyone make reproduction parts for these reproducers? Steve : [Phono-L] Columbia BC friction wheel drive Ron, it's difficult to explain the BC friction wheel driveshaft system without pictures or handwaving :o) The drive train begins with a gear-driven piece of metal tubing which is enclosed in the stationary outer housing which is fastened to the gear housing casting on the side of the machine. This first piece of tubing (call it part 1) rotates but does not translate axially. Inside this rotating tubing is the brass coupling sleeve (part 2) which can rotate and also slide along its axis. And inside the brass sleeve is the solid rod (part 3) which connects with the amber wheel. This part 3 rotates and also slides axially. Part 2 has two slots, diametrically opposed and milled into its outside surface that run almost the full length of the part. Part 1 transmits its torque via two setscrews which extend inward fr om Part 1 into the slots milled in part 2. (Access to these screws is via a hole drilled in the s tationary outer tube.) This allows Part 2 to be rotated by part 1 and also to slide axially inside part 1. Part 3 has a T shaped fixture at its end that engages two longitudinal slots milled INSIDE of part 2. This is what transmits the torque from part 2 to part 3 and also allows part 3 to translate axially. The slots inside of part 2 do not extend all the way to the ends of part 2. When part 3 is pulled along the mandrel with the reproducer, its T fixture hits the ends of the slots inside of part 2 and thereby drags part 2 along with it axially. All this assemblage has a purposefully sloppy fit to allow the amber wheel end of part 3 to wobble around radially so it can follow the stylus assembly as it is raised and lowered from the record surface. Clear as mud? Again, it's hard to envi sion what's happening without seeing the structure in detail. But maybe this helps understand it. Greg Bogantz ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org **It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv000547) ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Playing two minute wax records with an H or R
Hmmm, I wouldn't play two min. wax with an H but I might try two min. celluloid. I've never had an R to try on anything. I've tried the Diamond B on a two min. Celluloid and it sounded fine to me. If I didn't play 2 min wax with a C I couldn't play them at all. I don't have many that are pleasant to listen to and don't play them often. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Steven Medved Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 8:51 AM To: Phono-l; phonolist Subject: [Phono-L] Playing two minute wax records with an H or R Hello, I am interested in your opinions. What do you think about playing two minute records with an R or H? What do you think about using a diamond B on 2 minute celluloid cylinders? How about playing brown wax cylinders with a model C? Shawn, I am especially interested in what you think. Thanks, Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Playing two minute wax records with an H or R
Although it is not something one might want to do all the time, playing a 2 min celluloid with a 4 min stylus will probably not hurt either the cylinder or the stylus. I also suspect that the size of the stylus tip is not as critical for a hill and dale cylinder groove as it is for a lateral disk groove. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of andersun at tampabay.rr.com Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 11:45 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Playing two minute wax records with an H or R No the 4 minute stylus is completely different than the 2 minute. The 4 minute groove is much smaller than the 2 minute. Sent via BlackBerry by ATT -Original Message- From: Ron L lhera...@bu.edu Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 09:32:36 To: 'Antique Phonograph List'phono-l at oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Playing two minute wax records with an H or R Hmmm, I wouldn't play two min. wax with an H but I might try two min. celluloid. I've never had an R to try on anything. I've tried the Diamond B on a two min. Celluloid and it sounded fine to me. If I didn't play 2 min wax with a C I couldn't play them at all. I don't have many that are pleasant to listen to and don't play them often. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Steven Medved Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 8:51 AM To: Phono-l; phonolist Subject: [Phono-L] Playing two minute wax records with an H or R Hello, I am interested in your opinions. What do you think about playing two minute records with an R or H? What do you think about using a diamond B on 2 minute celluloid cylinders? How about playing brown wax cylinders with a model C? Shawn, I am especially interested in what you think. Thanks, Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Need a Diaphragm for a Columbia Vivatonal Reproducer
That might work but it is not a Vivatonal diaphragm. It looks like it has more pleats than the Vivatonal and I think I see attachment areas for a Spider. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Norman Bruderhofer Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 11:51 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need a Diaphragm for a Columbia Vivatonal Reproducer This should the one you are looking for: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=180282111614 He seems to accidentally describing them as HMV instead of Columbia. So, they are actually Viva-Tonal diaphragms. Norman At 11:17 08.09.2008, you wrote: I just purchased a nice Columbia Vivatonal portable. It's a model 202 and was made in England. When I played it, it sounded terrible. When I opened the reproducer I found out why. Someone had replaced the diaphragm with a piece of aluminum foil. They didn't even punch a hole for the needle bar screw. Unbelievably, it actually played; feebly but you could hear it. Does anyone know a source for a replacement diaphragm for this machine. The original was 2 1/8 in diameter. Thanks Robert Vuillemeot ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Amberola 30 erratic speed
What he said. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Baron Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 12:26 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Amberola 30 erratic speed What a great bunch of replies! Good suggestions, all. Even though many of us have been working on these wonderful time- machines for years, and have accrued mechanical intuition as well as experience, it never hurts to be reminded of all the possibilities. Even though I didn't post the original inquiry, I recognize the value of all the feedback and will print out a line-item summary of the broad range of possible issues, to post in my workshop as a reminder and checklist. In focusing on the minutiae, we sometimes overlook the obvious. Best to all, Andy Baron Santa Fe On Sep 2, 2008, at 7:19 AM, Ron L wrote: The test you suggest is a good one. I'll do it for sure. However, I am pretty sure that the spring could give sufficient energy for correct speed at one point (coils slide by one another) and then, as it uncoils, encounter an area of sticky old grease, impeding proper release of energy, especially since we are dealing with century old springs and equally old lubricant. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org ] On Behalf Of Robert Wright Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 11:43 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Amberola 30 erratic speed Last thought -- listen to a cylinder you know well and wait for the speed to drop. Back the reproducer up about 20 or 30 grooves and see if it does it in the same spot, within about 3 or 4 grooves. If so, it's not the mainspring, or anything other than something the carriage encounters near that physical location along the feedscrew, whether the contact point of half-nut to feedscrew, or the shaft the carriage rides along the length of the playback. Forgive me for speaking out of school, but if it were the mainspring, it just sems like there'd be no point at which you had reliable speed. These guys are the experts, but at least give the 30 this 'repeatable error' test first. - Original Message - From: Ken Danckaert kend at lemur.org To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Amberola 30 erratic speed Your problem is in the mainspring. It needs to be pulled and ALL the old lubrication removed. 40 steel wool and wd40 will do that. Relube and put the spring back in. That will get rid of the problem. DON'T soak it in kerosene or some other short cut to cleaning. The old stuff has got to come off the spring. Ken Danckaert On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 12:50 PM, Ron L'Herault lherault at bu.edu wrote: OK, gang, it is time to tap into the lists' wisdom. I'm working on an Amberola 30. The hook came unsoldered and the reproducer needed a rebuild. Those two easy repairs (the spring was in the case)completed, I tested the phonograph and found that the speed is a bit erratic. It will sound nice, then slow just a bit then return to speed for a while only to slow again. The carriage moves easily and the horn bobbles and rotates as it should. The governor is lubricated and the pad has been oiled. There is no evidence of crud or damage to the governor disk. There were a few teeth on the large hear that had a bit of damage but a bit of judicious filing has cured the noise the damage created, and besides, the speed variation is more random than the cycle of the gear noise. I'm thinking that the mainspring may need to be removed, cleaned and re-lubricated but I thought I might see if there is anything else I missed before tearing it apart. Thanks, Ron L ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Triumph with Columbia horn?
Just last week, I think it was, I saw a rear section of wood horn with metal collar on eeebay. It looked like a fresh cut. Now I know why. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Steve Andersen Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 1:04 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Triumph with Columbia horn? My opinion is that the wood section is not original or aftermarket for any Edison machine. The whole wood section appears too long and does not hang on the cygnet crane properly. It does look like a wood horn for a rear mount machine that was cut to fit in the housing of an Edison cygnet elbow. On Sep 2, 2008, at 12:32 PM, Andrew Baron wrote: Can the wood portion of the cygnet horn that's with this Triumph be original? I wasn't aware that Music Master, before or after Edison began offering them, used this type of wood pattern which appears to be a ca. 1908 Columbia #2 wood horn bell. Any thoughts? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=170257543430ssPageName=A DME:B:SS:US:1123 Andy Baron Santa Fe ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Bloomfield NJ Phono Parts
I once wrote to Coppernoll and I believe Al G supplied a gear to me for a (since stolen) Edison Standard. I think I still have those letters somewhere. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Clint Spaar Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 1:08 AM To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Bloomfield NJ Phono Parts Hi Ray, Very good thanks for some more details on Al Gerichten, I did a quick google search and came up with this interesting page of collector pictures. http://timbrooks.net/histrecordind/collect70s.cfm What I remember (I was 12 back then) that picture of Al's basement shop looks very familar especially the shelf of phonographs, and the pile of witch hat horns. Clint On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 12:25 AM, Clint Spaar clint.spa at gmail.com wrote: Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:09:00 -0400 From: wilenzick at bellsouth.net Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Collectibles - How's That For Originality? To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l at oldcrank.org Message-ID: 000401c9013b$f7cd60a0$6401a8c0 at Wilenzick Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Clint: The correct spelling of his name is Al GERICHTEN, of 23 Waldo Ave., Bloomfield, NJ. He was, indeed, the major phono parts supplier in the Northeast in the 70's. Ray ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Details, details
Thanks, Steve. The block off of the two min. speed consisted of eliminating the two little posts on the center shaft that slipped into holes on the main pulley, making the center shaft, pulley and feed screw turn at the same speed. Is there supposed to be a spacer in there to keep the speed change ring in the rightmost (4 min) position? If not, what kept it in place? Should there still be that little L shaped clip on the collar at the bearing end, which engages a groove in the feed screw shaft? Ron -Original Message- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Steven Medved Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 10:57 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Details, details Hi Ron, The Home F was an E with the 2 minute blocked off. It was not cobbled together, my Triumph E has a D pulley also. I believe the pulleys were marked D on the Model D E F and G as they did not change. Steve Hi gang, I've got a couple of machines for which I need some detailed pictures. I need to see what the pulley end and the bearing end of the feed screw on an Edison Home Model F look like, in particular, what is(or is not)screwed into the various holes. I'd also love a picture of the disassembled speed change mechanism. I have an F here that has H-D on the pulley and mandrel and I am wondering if it is cobbled together. There does not seem to be any way to make it play 2 min records though. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Styli
I'm pretty sure a 3 mil stylus will work on the Edisons and probably will work on the Pathe verticals.An LP stylus will probably work on the cylinders. It certainly won't hurt either the cylinder or the stylus to try. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of jimcip at earthlink.net Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:40 PM To: Phono-L at oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Styli A friend has asked me to record electrically some of my vertical-cut Pathe records I also want to record electrically Edison Diamond Discs two four-minute cylinders.I have sophisticated equipment for playing 78s electrically (for 17 years I produced a weekly show for the local FM station of Classical 78s) including a Packburn Noise Suppressor which has switch for playing vertical-cut recordings but I need styluses to play Pathe, Diamond Discs, two four-minute cylinders (using a Rabco tangential tracking arm the mandrel motor from an Amberola 30) that will fit either a Shure M44 cartridge, Shure M78S cartridge or Shure Model V cartridge If any of you all have had experience in electrically-reproducing vertical-cut records of various types can advise me on sources for such styli I would greatly appreciate it. (I know of Expert Pickups in England but their prices are out of this world so I hope to find a more affordable source.0 Thanks! Jim Cartwright Immortal Performances jimcip at earthlink.net EarthLink Revolves Around You. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] AB's and gear oiling
I usually grease gears and oil bearings on phonos. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Mike Stitt Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:35 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: [Phono-L] AB's and gear oiling The recent thread about the AB MacDonald brings up a good question. Among the many things I collect includes clocks. Now in the world of clocks you never oil gears, no and no. Should you oil gears in phonographs? Would the higher rate of speed of the governor be a rationale? Would the presumed higher loads from a larger spring dictate oiling? I do and have oiled phonograph gears. Should we? And break the clock rule? Mike ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] AB's and gear oiling
Why would oil ruin the phonograph? Is it an issue of uneven wear with dissimilar materials? Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Rich Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 2:29 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] AB's and gear oiling You do not oil gears except in special cases. Many people are not swayed by sound engineering practices and proceed to ruin good phonographs. Clocks have brass meshed with steel and so do most phonographs. IF you find similar materials meshed with each other then an extremely light coat is beneficial. Use a synthetic oil or a clock oil. The 3 in 1 oil is crap. Mike Stitt wrote: The recent thread about the AB MacDonald brings up a good question. Among the many things I collect includes clocks. Now in the world of clocks you never oil gears, no and no. Should you oil gears in phonographs? Would the higher rate of speed of the governor be a rationale? Would the presumed higher loads from a larger spring dictate oiling? I do and have oiled phonograph gears. Should we? And break the clock rule? Mike ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] AB's and gear oiling
I've read that one can use powdered graphite to lube fiber gears. Oil can soften the fiber material. If the story of the raw material for fiber gears is to be believed, the fiber material is naturally lubed. Ewww. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Greg Bogantz Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 3:30 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] AB's and gear oiling snip. Some people prefer not to oil fiber gears at all. Some fiber gears are designed to run dry if they mesh with a highly polished worm gear. snip
[Phono-L] AB's and gear oiling
No credit until you take the quiz next period, Bruce. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of BruceY Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 3:44 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] AB's and gear oiling I never imagined that my ill-begotten terminology would generate such a remarkably detailed response. Thanks for the advanced education seminar on the proper lubrication standards of the Talking Machine. I hope to receive at least 3 continuing education credits for attending this course. Bruce - Original Message - From: Greg Bogantz gbogan...@charter.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 3:29 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] AB's and gear oiling The issue with using oil or grease on metal parts is whether it dries up and gets sticky over time. This can be especially detrimental on very low-torque mechanisms such as the escapement or verge of a clockwork. Also, oiling must be done with the right formula when applied to non-metallic surfaces such as the fiber gears on some phonographs. Some people prefer not to oil fiber gears at all. Some fiber gears are designed to run dry if they mesh with a highly polished worm gear. But high-torque gears such as the winding gears where the crank shaft meshes with the spring barrel and the output or bull gear on the spring barrel on phonographs should be lubricated with a heavy oil or grease. These are often steel-on-steel gears. I restore both clocks and phonos and I usually grease the high-torque gears on the spring barrel of phonos and use a 20 weight or so oil on all the other metal gears, including the high-speed governor gears and pivots. I actually use a mixture of petroleum oil and a PTFE additive such as Slick 50 for my middle weight applications. The PTFE works especially well on sliding surfaces such as the ways that support the reproducer on cylinder phonos. Sliding surfaces lubricated this way hold their lubricity for a very long time. Clocks have considerably lower torque in their spring barrels, so a medium weight oil is all that's necessary on them. Then I oil the pivots and higher speed gears with a very light clock oil. These oils are designed not to gunk up and won't get sticky. I do not oil the escapement mechanism at all, whether pendulum or balance wheel type, although I do oil their pivots with the light oil. I agree that 3-in-1 oil is not good for these purposes. And WD-40 is a BAD idea as it gets sticky quite quickly when the solvent evaporates from it. Greg Bogantz - Original Message - From: Ron L lherault at bu.edu To: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 3:03 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] AB's and gear oiling Why would oil ruin the phonograph? Is it an issue of uneven wear with dissimilar materials? Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Rich Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 2:29 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] AB's and gear oiling You do not oil gears except in special cases. Many people are not swayed by sound engineering practices and proceed to ruin good phonographs. Clocks have brass meshed with steel and so do most phonographs. IF you find similar materials meshed with each other then an extremely light coat is beneficial. Use a synthetic oil or a clock oil. The 3 in 1 oil is crap. Mike Stitt wrote: The recent thread about the AB MacDonald brings up a good question. Among the many things I collect includes clocks. Now in the world of clocks you never oil gears, no and no. Should you oil gears in phonographs? Would the higher rate of speed of the governor be a rationale? Would the presumed higher loads from a larger spring dictate oiling? I do and have oiled phonograph gears. Should we? And break the clock rule? Mike ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Bad English on the Bay
What struck me was the incongruity (and therefore the humor) of touting someone as your favorite artist and then misspelling both the name and the genre. I know I've made errors in E-Bay listings but when I read it over, I usually catch them. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Bill Boruff Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 11:28 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Bad English on the Bay It's too bad that everyone isn't as perfect as some of us! When I joined Phono-L I thought the purpose of the group was to share phonograph information - not to beat up on others for what they don't know. Bill B On Jun 24, 2008, at 9:07 AM, Rich wrote: Probably a benefit of the PC Public Education system. There is a spell check built into the eBay listing routine but they are still working on the grammar checking module. john robles wrote: How can someone with such moronic English usage spell almost everything correctly?? And ththe description was like one long run- on sentence... Ron L lherault at bu.edu wrote: This seller touts his/her favorite oprah singer Elma Gluck. See: Item # 370061668586 Ron L ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Bad English on the Bay
This seller touts his/her favorite oprah singer Elma Gluck. See: Item # 370061668586 Ron L
[Phono-L] edisonic vs. dance?
I believe one has two springs and the other has only one. I think the Edisonic has the spring only on the needle bar and the Dance has one on the diaphragm as well, hence the bolt-on neck. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Peter Fraser Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 1:46 PM To: Antique List Phonograph Subject: [Phono-L] edisonic vs. dance? can anyone expound on the differences between the Edison Dance reproducer and its successor, the Edisonic? As near as i can tell, it's just the bolt-on neck...but does the little spring have different characteristics? is there anything else? do they sound appreciably different when equally restored? thanks for anything you can offer... -- peter ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] edisonic vs. dance?
Has anyone ever tried slipping a bit of modern rubber tubing over the spring or maybe painting the spring with silicone sealant? Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Greg Bogantz Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 3:47 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] edisonic vs. dance? Ron L is correct. But both of these springs were bad ideas to begin with. They were a lame attempt to account for the escessive bias placed on the diaphragm by the extra weight which causes the diaphragm to be stressed (and strained) downward even more by the tension in the stylus bar link. The extra weight used in the Dance and Edisonic models was required to reduce mistracking and distortion when playing highly modulated records, particularly the later electrics. It DOES NOT make the reproducer play louder, contrary to the bilge in the Edison blurbs to that effect. The loudness can only be controlled by changing the mechanical gain of the stylus bar which is the ratio of the stylus tip distance to the bar pivot relative to the distance from the bar pivot to the link. This ratio is the same for ALL Edison DD stylus bars, hence they all play at the same loudness. You can confirm this to yourself by using the different models of reproducer to play very soft recordings which do not tax the reproducers - they will all sound the same loudness. The fact that they may sound different when playing loud recordings is due to the differences in mistracking and distortion that they exhibit on those records. This biasing of the diaphragm is indigenous to the tracking of vertical modulation and is one of the several problems with that technology. (This problem does not exist with lateral reproduction.) Having a permanent bias or bend in one direction while playing a record causes the diaphragm to exhibit assymmetric nonlinear behavior (due to it nonlinear elasticity) which is yet another contributor to the generation of even orders (2nd, 4th, 6th, etc.) of harmonic distortion. Edison tried to reduce this bias (or permanent bending offset under playing tension) of the diaphragm with the addition of these springs into his later models of DD reproducers. There is a lot of bloviation about the purpose of the springs in his patent disclosure for the Dance reproducer, but compensation for the bias was their intended purpose. It didn't work. Mostly because he didn't account for the added spring constants these springs introduced into the diaphragm resonance which changes and/or adds to the mechanical resonances of the system. In particular, he didn't damp the springs sufficiently or at all. The diaphragm spring was designed with some damping in it, but it was ineffective. The stylus bar spring has no damping that I can find. Consequently, you can hear this spring ring when you play records. If you pay attention, you can hear a ringing noise behind the music which is this spring boinging or oscillating. Bad idea. My advice is to just remove both of these springs. The reproducer will sound cleaner and clearer with fewer resonances and extraneous noises. Greg Bogantz - Original Message - From: Ron L lhera...@bu.edu To: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 2:07 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] edisonic vs. dance? I believe one has two springs and the other has only one. I think the Edisonic has the spring only on the needle bar and the Dance has one on the diaphragm as well, hence the bolt-on neck. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Peter Fraser Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 1:46 PM To: Antique List Phonograph Subject: [Phono-L] edisonic vs. dance? can anyone expound on the differences between the Edison Dance reproducer and its successor, the Edisonic? As near as i can tell, it's just the bolt-on neck...but does the little spring have different characteristics? is there anything else? do they sound appreciably different when equally restored? thanks for anything you can offer... -- peter ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Down Time
Thanks Loran. And thanks for kicking the Chat computer last week so that we didn't suffer Chat withdrawal. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Loran T. Hughes Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 11:43 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: [Phono-L] Down Time Folks, I want to apologize for Phono-L being down for a few days... I had a major software malfunction here. Everything seems to be back up and running normally now. Loran ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Two VV IX for sale
I was contacted by a woman who has two VV IXs to sell. One is an earlier version, footless, a version C with the female crank. It looks like it is mahogany. It is all there and working. Case is in very nice shape although allegatored. It sits on a great matching record cabinet that, to me at least, curiously opens from the long side rather than what would be the front of the machine. There is a Vic 2 on a gold elbow sitting loose in this machine. The second IX is a version G, also in nice shape. The wood looks a little lighter and more like walnut but I don't think it is. It also is complete, working and in nice shape. She is not sure what she wants for the machines and has a local paper's syndicated Antiques column with a common looking Victrola upright valued by the column author at $1000! I don't know if I've convinced her yet that the author was greatly mistaken about that one. If anyone is interested in these machines, which are in Mansfield, MA, please contact me off list. Thanks, Ron L
[Phono-L] Credenza Knock off?
I can see the horn well enough to determine that it is two large flat boards making a truncated V shape. The tone arm looks Orthophonic. I wonder what the reproducer looks like. Tom Rhodes has Adverts for aftermarket machines that look like this. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Bob Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 12:52 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: [Phono-L] Credenza Knock off? Check ebay item # 120249190282. At first glance this looks very similar to a Credenza. Unfortunately you can't see the horn very well. Anyone ever see one of these in the flesh or have any information about it? RMV ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Elusive machine on Ebay
I thought the legs were gone too but I looked again and I do believe they are there. It is just the way it is photographed. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Bob Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 7:26 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Elusive machine on Ebay The phonograph is a Victor orthophonic 8-12. Unfortunately not only does it have the wrong arm and reproducer, but if you look closely, the legs have been cut off. From th eway the pictures were taken and the flowery description, I suspect the dealer knows more about the machine than he is letting on and trying to educate him would be futile. RMV - Original Message - From: est...@localnet.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org; phonol...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 6:21 AM Subject: [Phono-L] Elusive machine on Ebay The dealer says the details on this machine Remain elusive but the components are All original. It's a Victor that someone has fitted with a Brunswick Ultona arm. Will someone with more tact that I have please elucidate the seller, who (it appears) will welcome information. http://cgi.ebay.com/Victrola-Antique-Standing-Record-Player_W0QQitemZ2502374 54040QQihZ015QQcategoryZ1442QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Eric ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Elusive machine on Ebay
I'd love to have the doors and carved accent for the bottom medallion. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of BruceY Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 10:24 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Elusive machine on Ebay Yes, and still a good deal if you can get it at the 99 cent minimum bid and then drive down to Pa. and haul it back home. - Original Message - From: Ron L lhera...@bu.edu To: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:49 AM Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Elusive machine on Ebay I thought the legs were gone too but I looked again and I do believe they are there. It is just the way it is photographed. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Bob Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 7:26 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Elusive machine on Ebay The phonograph is a Victor orthophonic 8-12. Unfortunately not only does it have the wrong arm and reproducer, but if you look closely, the legs have been cut off. From th eway the pictures were taken and the flowery description, I suspect the dealer knows more about the machine than he is letting on and trying to educate him would be futile. RMV - Original Message - From: est...@localnet.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org; phonol...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 6:21 AM Subject: [Phono-L] Elusive machine on Ebay The dealer says the details on this machine Remain elusive but the components are All original. It's a Victor that someone has fitted with a Brunswick Ultona arm. Will someone with more tact that I have please elucidate the seller, who (it appears) will welcome information. http://cgi.ebay.com/Victrola-Antique-Standing-Record-Player_W0QQitemZ2502374 54040QQihZ015QQcategoryZ1442QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Eric ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Seeburg Home Library
And it went for a little more than $150. Ron -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Greg Bogantz Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 3:14 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Seeburg Home Library Doug, even though it's bigger than a Victor 10-50, it weighs about the same. The wood console cabinet was made and sold as two pieces. You could originally buy just the mechanism is you wanted to custom install it. Or you could buy just the wooden mechanism housing if you wanted it to be free standing. Or you could buy the lower record storage and speaker stand (also contained the power amp) as an option. Or you could order the entire ensemble complete as one model as you see it shown on the eBay listing. But the cabinets were still supplied as separate upper and lower sections. I have the mechanism and complete electronics for one of these which I've built into my own cabinet. I wasn't able to salvage the original cabinet. But from what I have and what I can see of the cabinet, I'm estimating that the entire upper section probably weighs about 200 pounds. And the lower section which is mostly empty probably weighs another 100 pounds for a combined weight of around 300 pounds. But it's still a BIG beast, even separated into two parts. You'd have to have a large pickup truck or a full-sized van to haul the thing. But it's a great toy. I use mine regularly. The mechanical design is beautiful, robust, and works like a charm. Despite the direct worm gearing (no rubber belts or drive pucks to wear out), there is no rumble, wow, or flutter in playback Greg Bogantz - Original Message - From: Douglas Houston cdh...@earthlink.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 2:51 PM Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Seeburg Home Library The thing is beautiful. I shudder to thnk what it weighs, though. [Original Message] From: Greg Bogantz gbogan...@charter.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: 3/30/2008 4:11:13 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Seeburg Home Library Hey guys, here's a rare opportunity to score one of the most unusual home phonographs ever made, the Seeburg Home Library: http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Seeberg-Automatic-Record-Console_W0QQitemZ260223 421468QQihZ016QQcategoryZ3283QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem In case you don't know what it is, this is the first 78rpm version of the Seeburg Select-O-Matic record changer which was introduced as the M100A jukebox in 1948. It is full intermix - you can use 10 and 12 inch records loaded in any order anywhere in the record magazine with automatic size selection by the mechanism. The M100A offered 100 selections, whereas this version holds 100 records for a total of 200 selections. This mechanism was offered as the Seeburg Industrial/Commercial Music (SICM) system housed in a huge steel cabinet as well as this home version as shown in the wooden console. This model includes the preamp, power amp, speaker and 24-hour timer which can be programmed to start and stop the music program numerous times over a 24-hour period. This one looks to be in complete and nice shape, too. I have no financial interest in this item, I just wanted it to find an appreciative buyer. Somebody here on this list should give it a good home. It's very rare to find one of these, never mind in this kind of good condition. Greg Bogantz ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Columbia Reproducer Tool
Nope, I just looked at watch case openers. I'm the one who identified the multi use tool that Bob has and it does not look like a watchcase opening tool. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of David Dazer Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 11:22 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Columbia Reproducer Tool This sounds like a watch case opening tool. Check out Timesavers.com You can send me a photo if you would like to. Dave Bob rvu...@comcast.net wrote: I held a meeting of our local phonograph group at my house Sunday. While looking at a Columbia console I'm in the process of restoring one of the more astute members of the group was able to identify a tool that I found in one of the drawers. This is a tool specifically designed to repair Columbia reproducers. It's about 4 1/2 long and 2 1/2 wide. It's shaped like a Whamo slingshot frame. It has 2 spanner wrenches to remove the metal ring that holds the diaphragm in place. The larger one is set for 2 3/16 and the smaller for 1 13/16. Then there are 4 different size hex wrenches for adjusting the nuts on the needle bar and finally, a fine screw driver for removing the screw that holds the needle bar to the diaphragm. When he got home one of the members tried to research this tool on line but could find nothing about it. I'm wondering if any of the people on this list are familiar with this tool and cam supply information about it. Email me if you would like to see a picture of it. RMV ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Crapophones and The Buyers and The Dealers!
Hi Bob, I e-mailed from a laptop at home last night but I am not sure if it was working correctly so I though I'd better reply again this morning from work. What did you have in mind for the book? Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Bob Johnson Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 5:03 PM To: 'Antique Phonograph List' Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Crapophones and The Buyers and The Dealers! Hey Ron L. email me about the Tin Foil to Stereo book. Bob Johnson bjohn...@mrvictor.com -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Ron L Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 12:05 PM To: 'Antique Phonograph List' Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Crapophones and The Buyers and The Dealers! You are probably lucky that you did not get to talk to the fellow who had just blown $950 of that $1000. He would have thought that you were one of the loosing bidders trying to make him feel bad, at the very least.
[Phono-L] Tinfoil To Stereo
You are lucky to have been given that book. I was one of a very few who took From Tin Foil To Stereo out of our library. I used to know the exact spot on the shelf where it resided. One day, I went in to borrow it only to learn that it had disappeared! Someday I'll find an affordable (i.e. inexpensive or free) copy. 8-) Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of John Maeder Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 10:13 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Tinfoil To Stereo I am proud that Ken Blazier gave me his copy of 'From Tinfoil To Stereo' that was given to him by Elmer Moore (a first generation Southern California collector). Both their names are inside with dedications from each generation to the next. Ken passed away earlier this winter, for those of you who may not know. I also have Del Hahn's copy of 'Edison Cylinder Phonograph Companion'. Del passed away early last year. Elmer was before my time in SoCal but heard many stories about him. I knew Ken and Del well and thought very highly of them both. I really treasure those books! When I was a kid (I started collecting at age 10), I used to check a 1954 edition of 'Fabulous Phonograph' out of the Ft. Knox (Ky.) library. The librarian told me I was the only person that had ever checked it out! On one visit when I was about 13 or 14, she gave it to me stamped 'discarded'. I still have it. Kind regards, John Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:38:39 -0700 From: deedeebl...@yahoo.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Tinfoil To Stereo For those that get tired of stories from back when I was a new collector, you can tune out now. When I started collecting in the early 70's, the only books that were available were Tinfoil to Stereo first printed in 1959 and The Fabulous Phonograph first printed in 1954. I was introduced to both those books by Ira Dueltgen. He had an extra copy of The Fabulous Phonograph that he gave or sold me at a modest price. I was disappointed to find out that Tinfoil was out of print and I had to wait what seemed like forever before the second edition was available. When I was looking for the photo of the Diamond Disk with the loud speaking attachment I checked the inside cover and found that my copy came through several collectors. On the inside cover it says: Received 1-13-66, Purchased from A. Nugent Jr. 3804 Charles City Rd. Richmond, Va. Property of H. Claire Carpenter Sr. Sold to Ira Dueltgen by Mr. Carpenter's widow Purchased from Ira by John Davis in 1978 ... gift from John Davis to Jerry Blais 12-11-2006. I sold my second edition copy of Tinfoil from a posting on phono-l some time ago. We have so many wonderful phonograph books. My only difficulty today is trying to process so much information. Happy collecting, Jerry Blais Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Shellac records and damage from steel needles
I don't think anyone ever said that no wear (not damage-the choice of terms shows a prejudice) to a record occurs. That is clearly wrong for the reasons you have stated. Wear to the needle continues throughout the play of the record. If a machine is properly maintained and the reproducer has compliant parts, when a new steel needle(not a nail - see comment in parentheses above) is used, wear is kept to a minimum. Having said that, further qualification should be made. Some machines had better designs than others. Steel needles are ground to a point and tumbled to create a particular radius on the tip they are not merely, headless nails. What has happened over time is that the whole playback system has become refined. Even diamond styli are worn by vinyl records and the records themselves are worn (degraded) every time they are played. No contact system of playback will eliminate this. If you have a super-valuable/rare record, should you play it repeatedly with a steel needle? No. But then again, you probably shouldn't play it repeatedly with any needle/stylus. I think Greg Boganz mentioned the lack of wear on DDs on the Electrola list recently. It is not entirely because of the tone arm and has to do with vertical grooves and the nature of the DD surface. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Robert Wright Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 3:53 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: [Phono-L] Shellac records and damage from steel needles Many times the pros and cons of playing shellac discs on wind-up phonographs have been discussed here on this list. There are more than a few collectors who are completely convinced that if you follow the rules, no damage occurs to your records whatsoever (I even know of an eBay seller who admits to playing ALL his records on his wind-up for aural grading purposes, complete with a diatribe in this practice's defense, though he'll never convince me to buy one of his items), and outside of phono maintenance, there really is only one rule -- use a new needle every time, period. I have never agreed with this. I'm a child of the 80's, and I remember when CD's came out -- one of the selling points (though quite secondary to the issue of surface noise) was that you cannot play a record with some miniscule amount of damage, but that you cannot inflict any amount of damage on a CD by playing it no matter how many times you do so. (And remember, they were talking about modern vinyl records with lightweight tonearms and meticulously ground stylii, not a headless nail with a half-pound chunk of metal sitting on it.) It's absolutely true, as anyone who has ever fallen asleep during play of a modern LP on a modern, non-automatic turntable can attest, as they will hear what sounds like pink noise coming from the closed groove near the label, and a certain amount of black vinyl dust wil find itself on their stylus. Further proof: I have a very nice audiophile turntable rig (Music Hall MMF-9 with lots and lots of upgrades, Shure V15VxMR cartridge), and every time I change the stylus, I let it run in one of the locked-groove white noise grooves of the Cardas Frequency Sweep and Burn-In Record for at least a few hours (usually more like 5) before doing any serious listening. And if you go through my disc's tracks one by one, you will plainly hear a couple that have been used more than once, as evidenced by 3 to 6 dB decrease in the treble frequencies. But back to wind-ups. The idea behind the steel needle/diamond dust in the shellac system is that at the beginning of the record, the first few grooves of (hopefully) dead air will grind the surface of the needle to custom fit that particular groove. My expanded idea of this is that once the needle is sufficiently ground to fit, the grinding of both the needle and the record are reduced drastically, as the weight of the soundbox is then supported by the maximum amount of contact area between needle and groove; if this is true, then an ideal constitution of shellac and diamond dust could be arrived at, as the amount of grounding necessary could be calculated to a very fine degree. So what's the problem? Azimuth. The soundbox travels at a curve. And to compound the problem, tonearms were largely kept at a relatively short distance, something like 170mm compared to the 233mm of a modern tonearm. The length of the tonearm is one of the things directly responsible for the reproducer's perpendicularity to the tangent of the groove at the needle's contact point. I don't have a protractor with which to measure the degrees of arc the soundbox of my portable Victrola is subjected during full transverse of a disc, but believe me, it is sadly substantial, visually. Here's a non-scientific test: grab a small square and align one leg against the inside of the soundbox, with the other leg vertically
[Phono-L] FW: records from 1907
Our members may find this article interesting. It is about the discovery of a bunch of records stored in a time capsule in the Paris Opera and mentioned in Phantom of the Opera. Ron L _ Here's the article on the records found from 1907 1912 http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/preseence-200803.html featuring the opera singers. Cheryl
[Phono-L] Birthday wishes
Ha! I've googled a few times today and didn't even notice! Thanks, Loran. Ron -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Loran Hughes Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 2:37 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Birthday wishes Ron, Check out Google's logo today (www.google.com). Loran On Mar 3, 2008, at 11:19 AM, Ron L wrote: Today is Alexander Graham Bell's Birthday. I work in Boston, not all that far from where he (and Edison) did research. It is a good time to play Give Me Your Telephone Number. Ron L ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Portables
Ha! Well, at least one of those arms is incorrect, apparently. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Robert Wright Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 1:22 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: [Phono-L] Portables Well, scratch that theory... Here's another Carryola with the same reproducer but a 'normal' tonearm. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=300197974468ssPageName=M ERC_VI_RSCC_Pr8_PcY_BID_Stores_ITrefitem=290205612802itemcount=8refwidget loc=active_view_itemusedrule1=StoreCatToStoreCatrefwidgettype=cross_promot _widget_trksid=p284.m184_trkparms=algo%3DDR%26its%3DS%252BI%252BSS%26itu%3 DISS%252BUCI%252BSI%26otn%3D8 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Vic 4
Someone has a clean 4 spring motor on E-bay so I don't have to look at mine at home. There is a collar with a set screw at the end of the casing farthest from the winding gears. I don't think there are any others. Remove the set screw and any hardened grease and you should be able to tap the shaft out, I believe. Just in case, clean the ends of the shaft and gears and look for additional set screws. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of TERRY LEWIS Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 8:54 AM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Vic 4 Can someone please tell me how to remove the shaft from a Victor 4 spring assembly. Thanks, Terry Lewis Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Super Bowl Predictions from Phono Nuts
The coach at our school, so I am told, said that the band guys were sissies. It was a smallish school and there was competition for bodies. That didn't help my opinion of athletes though. Now, here I am almost 61 and still playing music and getting paid for it. As far as I know, none of those now-60-year old jocks are making money playing football. And they probably couldn't play a whole game if they had to 8-). Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of keeper...@aol.com Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 2:44 AM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Super Bowl Predictions from Phono Nuts In a message dated 1/31/2008 2:02:10 PM Pacific Standard Time, lhera...@bu.edu writes: The only time I ever went to football games was when I was in the band. If I was not actually playing I was bored and cold. Why would anyone want to chase a ball anywere? To knock other big, strong guys into mud? ; ) E **Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Super Bowl Predictions from Phono Nuts
Hmm, I think you are right. I'd forgotten about that. 8-) Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Robert Wright Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 3:24 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Super Bowl Predictions from Phono Nuts Nah, that's what my older brothers were for. :-) Us band geeks got to ride back from away games with the cheerleaders and drill team. Right, Ron? NE 28 Giants 20 best, r. - Original Message - Why would anyone want to chase a ball anywere? To knock other big, strong guys into mud? ; ) E ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Record Price for Edison Army-Navy??
Service number? Nope, I was 1Y Ron (blind in one eye)L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Rich Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 5:57 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Record Price for Edison Army-Navy?? Remember your service number? Use it along with a couple of special characters. On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:44:59 -0400, Ron L wrote: I did get a message from EBay (it was legit-on My EBay-messages) that advised me to change my password because the existing one was too easy. Now, if I could only remember the new password. 8-) Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of phonofo...@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 3:37 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Record Price for Edison Army-Navy?? I am surprised that ebay has not tightened up on their seciurity network to prevent anyone from obtaining your personal ebay password. Could they develop a software that would automatically delete the cookies that house the password in your computer or form their website? I am sure something could be done, but then again it may cost ebay lots of money to invest in such a precaution. I would hate to see them dip into their millions of dollars in revenues and profits to help their fellow customers. Rick -Original Message- From: aph4...@aol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 2:48 pm Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Record Price for Edison Army-Navy?? In a message dated 10/24/2007 10:58:29 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, bruce78...@comcast.net writes: No, I get them all the time, but being the naturally suspicious fellow that I am, I have never fallen for one of them, and send them immediately to sp...@ebay.com , so I can't imagine in this day and age of crooks, thieves, and con artists on the internet, that anyone in their right mind falls for that CRAP!! and wondered whether there was another way that these hijackers were lifting peoples passwords. Bruce Bruce, I had my eBay identity AND password hijacked recently and someone used it to put a bunch of Mercedes, Jaguars and Rovers up on eBay for sale by ..me! I still haven't figured out how they would benefit from this. But I was told by eBay that you don't even have to click on the links given on the phishing site for them to find your password. You just have to OPEN a phishing email for them to gain that information. I certainly don't understand how they can do that. I'm opening fewer emails now! ---Art Heller ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Cleaning Filigree...
I use mechanic's waterless hand cleaner, WITHOUT PUMICE. I have not had a problem yet. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Curran Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 9:54 AM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Cleaning Filigree... Greetings: Is there a safe way to clean back brackets without damaging the filigree decoration? Tnx Rgds. Doug -- _ Windows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook ? together at last. ?Get it now. http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA102225181033.aspx?pid=CL10062697 1033___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Edisonia
Neat! Thanks. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of John Maeder Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 12:05 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Edisonia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edisonia_Hall ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Edisonia picture
Here's a link to the postcard. You can barely make out Edisonia http://members.cox.net/crescentpark/c-p23.htm
[Phono-L] Mystery
I remember my red 1958 Triumph TR 3. It had faded to a pinkish color by 1968 when I bought it. Aggressive polishing helped make it look a bit redder, as I recall. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Jeffry Young, D.O. Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 9:25 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Mystery We need the input of artists, home painters and auto painters. I have always been told that the red spectrum of colors is more light sensitive, and will fade easier and faster than other colors. Truth? Jeff Wisconsin -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of aph4...@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 11:21 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Mystery In a message dated 9/4/2007 8:13:21 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, lhera...@bu.edu writes: The red underneath the elbo is not exposed to ultraviolet. No UV no fade. Very few pigments in use in the early 1900s were color fast. Almost all of them fade and the color that they fade to, in most cases, is not what you would expect. And so...can we assume that the maroon accents fade but the amber horn color either does not fade or fades much less than maroon? I am simply wondering what pigment difference there might have been. The simplest answer would seem to be that certain colors absorb UV light more than others. I wonder what other present day horns would have been different colors when they were manufactured. ---Art Heller ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Mystery
More likely it is a UV issue, rather than exposure to air. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of wilenz...@bellsouth.net Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 11:06 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Mystery I don't think the maroon or red accent used on Vic O horns was paint, but rather some type of dye color which readily fades possibly over time when exposed to the air. I have a friend with a beautiful Vic O, nice original paint on horn, but missing the maroon trim also. Perhaps it's maroon under the elbow because that part was protected from the air. Just a guess. Ray - Original Message - From: DeeDee Blais deedeebl...@yahoo.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 9:25 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Mystery I bought a Vic O from long time collector and dear friend, John Davis, a couple of months ago. John purchased the machine about fifteen years ago from an elderly gentleman that remembered his parents bringing it home as a new machine. When John offered it to me, I gave it a quick examination and realized that I was looking at a superb example of a Vic O so I bought it. I did notice that there was absolutely no indication or traces of the maroon accent that is commonly found on Vic O horns. I assumed that some amber Vic O horns were not accented with the maroon trim. I didn't give it much more thought until I recently removed the black painted elbow to wax the horn and it's maroon under the elbow! Any thoughts? I thought that perhaps the maroon accent was removed from a prior waxing or cleaning but you would expect to find maroon coloration in the seams of the horn. I found no old wax or any trace of maroon paint in the seams. Next, I wondered if sunlight obliterated a possible light coat of maroon paint. If that were true, I expected to see traces of paint at least in the underside seams but once again, nothing. Next, I wondered if a solvent was used to remove the maroon paint but the original decals are in good shape and have not suffered from something strong enough to remove paint. Why would there be maroon paint under the elbow and nowhere else? What am I missing? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, Jerry Blais Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mailp=summer+activities+for+kidsc s=bz ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Amberola 30 Serial number difference
Well, if George can't fix it, the machine is not repairable so you'd better hope that Mr. Babson will stand behind his letter. Ron L 8-) -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of michael funk Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 12:57 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Amberola 30 Serial number difference I recently bought an Amberola 30 that was not working very well. When dissembling the machine to send the motor to George Vollema I found a letter in the bottom of the case dated January 27, 1916. The letter was in reply to a complaint the original owner (J. D. Smith of Sheridan Wisconsin) had about the machine. Directions for things to try where described and at the end the letter states I am ready and willing to send you all charges prepaid at my expense, a new top plate and motor for your machine that I know will illuminate this trouble, if after having followed out the instructions I have given desired results are not obtained. F. K. Babson MGR. I am beginning to wonder if this machine has always been troubled! A stamped number on the machine says 22162 while a top plate I found under the motor is 19165. I am assuming these numbers should match if they started out life together. The letter is a purple ditto and not an original typed letter. I wonder why they didn't send out the typed original and keep the ditto. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Silvertone Catalog
The Aeolean Vocalion Graduola also encouraged the listener to interact via their Graduola remote control which was a solid wire inside a spiral wire with a black coating. The cable controlled the motion of a roughly teardrop shaped, fluted rubber stopper that moved up or down in the throat of the horn where it connected to the base of the reproducer. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Baron Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 10:59 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Silvertone Catalog snip being manipulated while playing, thus enabling you to give your own interpretation to the music, is certainly reminiscent of the way player piano operators of the same era were encouraged to interact with the controls while the piano was playing to make the music their own. snip
[Phono-L] Auxetophone Sold!
I thought the conical were more exponential than the morning glory and that the cygnet shape were even better than the conical. Of the acoustical era horns I am sure the cygnet shape is the best so did I have it wrong with the other two? Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Houston Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 10:57 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Auxetophone Sold! That's a reasonable theoey. A Morning Glory horn is somewhat exponential in form, so it should amplify better than any conical horn Was there ever an Evening Glory horn? I've often wondered. [Original Message] From: jim...@earthlink.net jim...@earthlink.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: 8/12/2007 10:49:20 PM Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Auxetophone Sold! Have never heard an Auxetophone but would expect one would sound better with morning glory shaped horn instead of the conical horn that always accompany them in pictures. Jim Cartwright jim...@earthlink.net EarthLink Revolves Around You. [Original Message] From: DeeDee Blais deedeebl...@yahoo.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: 8/12/2007 10:13:33 AM Subject: [Phono-L] Auxetophone Sold! Portland seems to be the place to find an Auxetophone. In addition to the two that surfaced a few years ago, one sold this weekend. I believe I was second in line but another collector scraped up the asking price of $2500. I don't know if it had the blower assembly but the seller said the electronics did not work. It had the large mahogany horn and had been refinished. I don't know who bought it but he's one lucky collector! Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.15/949 - Release Date: 8/12/2007 11:03 AM ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] ***SPAM*** Phono-L Digest - Substitute metal horn forvictor 6
As I mentioned before, I have the brass bell, steel body horn with a mahogany colored paint but not with wood grain effect. I've had the machine since the early 1970s and I believe it is an original horn. It is pictured in some ads. ISTR the ad in a small slip cased book the title of which escapes me at the moment. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of valecnik57-p...@yahoo.com Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 5:04 AM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] ***SPAM*** Phono-L Digest - Substitute metal horn forvictor 6 Picking up on George Paul's comment on this subject from some time back, I would like to mention that I also have one of the substitute metal horns that was offered in lieu of the black rubberized paper mache horn in 1905. The paper sticker on the small end of the horn says something like, This horn may be exchanged for the standard rubberized paper mache horn which is currently unavaliable owing to the Russo-Japanese war. I also have an advertisement from Munsey's magazine showing a picture of the victor 6 with this horn. I thought it's interesting that they would advertise with that horn given that it was supposed to be a temporary thing. I wonder if Tim Fabrizio's looks the same? Mine is not a particularly pretty horn compared to the other horns I've seen that could have come on a vic 6, (wood spearpoint, paper mache, no.23b all brass). You can see pictures of a victor 6 sporting these various horn options at my website, www.bojo.cz/phonograph. Click on the victor 6 and scroll down to the bottom of the victor page to see them. Sorry the webiste is kind of messed up. One of these days I've gotta get that junker amberola I off the home page. I put it on there to sell. It's since sold. Has anybody seen a wood grained brass bell horn for a victor 6? I have seen advertisements for them but have nver actually seen one. Regards, Bruce Johnson Pod Valem II, 870 252 43 Pruhonice Czech Republic website www.bojo.cz/phonograph Tel: (CZ) + 420 602 362 473 Tel: (US) + 1 612 605 5242 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] ***SPAM*** Phono-L Digest - Substitute metal horn forvictor 6
That first looks like the color of my horn. I don't recall seing either the tag or its remnants anywhere though. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of phonop...@aol.com Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 1:33 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] ***SPAM*** Phono-L Digest - Substitute metal horn forvictor 6 Hi-- I see that pictures don't come through on Phono-L -- so please go to _www.phonophan.com/privateviewing.html_ (http://www.phonophan.com/privateviewing.html) to see the Victor horn pictures. Cheers, Tim Fabrizio phonophan PO Box 747 Henrietta, NY 14467 TEL 585 582 1586 FAX 585 582 2624 Web site: www.phonophan.com ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] OT-vintage car
My vintage car is a 1973 Triumph TR6. My first car was a ten year old 1958 TR-3 and I've owned Triumphs ever since. Insurance covers the expenses of being hit usually, but it does little for the pain of knowing your special, heretofore all-original treasure has been damaged. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of zonophone2...@aol.com Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 10:02 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] OT-vintage car KUDOS TO YOU RENE YOU ARE BRAVER THAN ME OLD CARS ARE FUN BUT THEY CAN GET TOO EXPENSIVE IF SOMEONE HITS YOU ENJOY ZONO ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Victor P bracket
My cleaner of choice for shellac is mechanic's waterless hand cleaner, without pumice. It does not dull or soften the shellac but it does remove oils, greases and old wax. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Rich Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 2:54 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Victor P bracket The best bet is Murphy's Oil Soap. Mix with a little water and whip up a lather. It might dull the shellac and if it does paste wax will fix it. It will take off the oxidized oil, coal dust, wood ash, and general dirt. It requires patience. ANY product that is listed as either a polish or body scrub or cleaner is an ABRASIVE and will cut through the shellac like a knife. The chemical carriers in these products may also strip the shellac. The copper plate is very thin and that is what makes it fragile. Some of these oxidized fishes are coated with real violin varnish which is much tougher than plain shellac. The color of the final product was controlled by what was used to over coat it. On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 14:10:37 -0400, Steven Medved wrote: Hi Loran,Would a gently cleaner such as Maguires body scrub clean the crud off of the shellac? A lot of houses were heated with coal and or wood and this leaves things very dirty. Patina is good, dirt is irritating, but sometimes it is best to leave well enough alone.The oxidized finish is very delicate, when working with Edison oxidized reproducers I only remove dust with a soft tissue. I would think that the shellac could be removed and a new finish installed, but when dealing such an expensive item you would want an expert to do it.Steve Other than gently wiping with a soft (microfiber) cloth to knock the dust off, I'd leave well enough alone. I'm a believer that patina shows the piece has lived a nice, long life. Loran On Jun 21, 2007, at 9:49 AM, Dan Kj wrote: I knew someone who had the same finish on all the door hardware inhis house he removed every piece got them all clean again with somekind of industrial polishing compound. I couldn't tell if he wasdisappointed when I told him the pieces were SUPPOSED to have spots of different- colored metal. ack. - Original Message - From: David Dazer dda...@sbcglobal.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 9:10 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor P bracketI had good luck cleaning mine with steel wool and somewaterless hand cleaner that mechanics use. Go easy with it or you might end upstripping the whole thing off. When you see some of the copper coming back, quit.Dave phonofo...@aol.com wrote: I have an oxidized Victor P front mount support brack that is verydark. How could I bring the support bracket back to life so it will show theoxidized finish? Do I remove the old laquer/shellac finish and then relacquer? If so what type of finish remover would you recommend? Thanks! ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono- l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Victor P bracket
I have not tried it on mine yet, but I'm betting it is just shellac on a piece that old. You could try a Q tip moistened with methanol on the lower surface of the bracket and see if it softens/removes it. The alcohol should not change the oxidized finish itself. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of phonofo...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 8:31 AM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Victor P bracket I have an oxidized Victor P front mount support brack that is very dark. How could I bring the support bracket back to life so it will show the oxidized finish? Do I remove the old laquer/shellac finish and then relacquer? If so what type of finish remover would you recommend? Thanks! AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Victor P bracket
A lot of those were plated steel too. It was quite easy to polish the copper off. Don't ask me how I know. 8-) Ron -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Dan Kj Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 12:49 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor P bracket I knew someone who had the same finish on all the door hardware in his house he removed every piece got them all clean again with some kind of industrial polishing compound. I couldn't tell if he was disappointed when I told him the pieces were SUPPOSED to have spots of different-colored metal. ack.
[Phono-L] Bettini sound and oxidized finish Edison DD reproducer.
After reading a couple of articles in the latest Sound Box, two questions come to mind. 1. How do Bettini cylinders sound? Are they louder, softer, have better high and/or low frequency recorded on them and does these highs/lows reproduce better on playback with Bettini and/or other reproducers? I've never had the good fortune to see or hear anything Bettini. 2. George Paul mentions that the A and B-150s had an oxidized bronze finish on the metal parts and was the only model to feature this. My D25 (serial number 25 has an oxidized finish reproducer and looks just like the one pictured on page 13 but it does not have the damper in it. The horn Elbow on the D25 has a kind of antiqued brass look to it, rather greenish/brass, brush finish. Do I have the wrong reproducer with the Jacobean (D25). What should it have? Neither nickel nor gold would look right with the finish on the horn elbow. I have not finished the mag yet but the articles I have read are wonderful. Ron L
[Phono-L] edison c-150 grill
You cold drizzle a bit of lemon oil in there to provide some lubrication. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of mbditt...@comcast.net Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 3:40 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] edison c-150 grill Hi, I have an Edison C-150 diamond disc player which I bought last summer. It is becoming apparent that the motor springs need to be cleaned and re-greased ( occasional thumping, etc ). The problem I have is that the front wooden grill is apparently swollen into the bottom groove in which it rests...and of course it is necessary to remove the grill to remove the motor. The top of the grill moves freely. I have tried repeatedly to get the grill to budge, but can only get it to move a little. Short of cutting the grill out and repacing it, does anybody have any other techniques I could try? It has also occurred to me that someone in the past may have glued it in there, but I don't really see any evidence of that. Thanks, Mark D Westminster, CO ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Slipping belts
I had one machine that did not want to cooperate. I ended up putting a light coating of rubber cement on the mandrel shaft pulley. The belt would then slip just the right amount. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Ken Danckaert Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 8:55 AM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Slipping belts I thought it would be interesting to find out what people do for slipping belts since this is a fairly common problem. You can obviously tighten the belt but that will affect play if it gets too tight and doesn't always solve the problem. Some people put a coating on the back side of the belt to prevent slipping. Auto stores sell a stick to stop fan belts from slipping but it depends on heating by friction to apply it. What solutions do you use? Ken Danckaert ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Slipping belts
I have yet to see modern leather belts that look as nice and are as supple as a good old original belt. The replacement material I've seen so far is thicker. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Rich Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 10:56 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Slipping belts It will trash a leather belt. Sandpaper and maybe rosin powder is about all that will work. leather belts have been around for a very long time. And they do wear out. They are not expensive On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 08:23:41 -0700, Andrew Baron wrote: Radio-TV service shops, for decades used a product called Phono Non- Slip Compound, a GC (General Cement) to prevent rubber idler wheels from slipping against the inside rim of electric turntables and other drives that rely on friction for grip. I keep a bottle of this thick liquid handy, but almost never use it as I consider it a shortcut fix (preferring instead to recondition the rubber where possible and properly clean the tt rim. However, it might be suitable in some cases for the leather belts on antique phonos (although I've never tried it for that purpose). It dries to a flexible, lightly tacky but non-sticky surface, which might be just the thing for some stubborn cases when you don't want to replace a belt and it doesn't respond to sanding, etc. I believe you can still buy this product from electronic suppliers such as Antique Electronic Supply and other sources. Andy Baron On Feb 26, 2007, at 8:04 AM, Ron L wrote: ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Columbia AS reborn
How about some before/after shots of that one, Bob? Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Bob Johnson Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 10:42 AM To: 'Antique Phonograph List' Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Columbia AS reborn Beautiful Ken: To those Phono-L members who don't know of Ken's restoration talents, he recently finished restoring three early case multiphones, one of which is mine, a restoration job that another prominent phonograph restorer said could not be done. Thanks for posting the pictures Ken. Bob
[Phono-L] in the papers
Hi gang, http://tinyurl.com/2e2kxa will take you too an article about my collection. Loran thought you all might enjoy it. Ron
[Phono-L] Re: Noisy Home
How are the rubber mounts between bedplate and motor, and between upper works and bedplate? Are the gears lightly greased or just oiled? Have the conical bearings on the mandrel shaft ever been disturbed, especially turned and/or moved in or out? Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Michael F. Khanchalian Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 1:49 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: [Phono-L] Re: Noisy Home I've got a noisy home, and the kids are already in bed. Well...an Edison Home (Banner case), that is. I've tried most of the tricks and can't seem to quiet it. The noise seems mostly associated with the pulley shaft and it's associated gears or bearings. But...everything looks true and the machine has had very little apparent use. Maybe it has had very little use from the beginning precisely because it's so dang noisy?!!! I'm usually pretty intuitive about this stuff, but I'm ready to humbly call for the wisdom and experience of all you out there. What am I missing?! Thanks all, Michael Khanchalian (cyl doc) ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Re: Noisy Home
I can agree with the possibility of dirt getting in grease and causing wear but I'm not sure about the self lubricating aspect of this post. Anyone else want to weigh in on this? Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Rich Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 12:00 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Re: Noisy Home Brass gears meshed with steel gears should never be greased or heavily lubricated. They are self lubricating. Any extra lube will hold dirt which will imbed into the brass which will result in excessive wear on the harder (steel) gear. If you van see of feel the lubricant then there is way too much. Rich On Tue, 2 Jan 2007 10:46:15 -0500, Ron L wrote: How are the rubber mounts between bedplate and motor, and between upper works and bedplate? Are the gears lightly greased or just oiled? Have the conical bearings on the mandrel shaft ever been disturbed, especially turned and/or moved in or out? ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Re: Noisy Home
The brass-on-steel is more quiet that steel on steel because the brass is softer, is my guess. I'm going to run this by our materials guy here at work. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Rich Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 1:22 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Re: Noisy Home Try this then. Why do you suppose that The Edison Co. went to all of the trouble to build motors where there was a brass gear meshed with a steel gear? It is not an accident. Look at any Edison motor. This dissimilar metal mesh cost a lot of money to manufacture. Rich On Tue, 2 Jan 2007 12:21:09 -0500, Ron L wrote: I can agree with the possibility of dirt getting in grease and causing wear but I'm not sure about the self lubricating aspect of this post. Anyone else want to weigh in on this? Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Rich Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 12:00 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Re: Noisy Home Brass gears meshed with steel gears should never be greased or heavily lubricated. They are self lubricating. Any extra lube will hold dirt which will imbed into the brass which will result in excessive wear on the harder (steel) gear. If you van see of feel the lubricant then there is way too much. Rich On Tue, 2 Jan 2007 10:46:15 -0500, Ron L wrote: How are the rubber mounts between bedplate and motor, and between upper works and bedplate? Are the gears lightly greased or just oiled? Have the conical bearings on the mandrel shaft ever been disturbed, especially turned and/or moved in or out? ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Re: Noisy Home
Here is what our resident materials guy had to say about the brass/steel issue. Can't believe that no lube is less wear than with lube. There are a few reasons for using brass against steel. If the steel part is difficult to replace, then the brass is the sacrificial part and is the easier to replace; e.g. the steel gear is a single part of a motor drive, like a worm gear is the threaded end of a motor shaft. Also, with different materials, there is essentially no chance of galling (sticking) of the materials in the event that the lube disappears. However, when the lube is gone, I bet that the brass gear will soon disappear. Also, with different materials, the larger part is made of the softer material, and the smaller part of the harder material; this tends to wear both parts at nearly the same rate. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Rich Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 1:22 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Re: Noisy Home Try this then. Why do you suppose that The Edison Co. went to all of the trouble to build motors where there was a brass gear meshed with a steel gear? It is not an accident. Look at any Edison motor. This dissimilar metal mesh cost a lot of money to manufacture. Rich On Tue, 2 Jan 2007 12:21:09 -0500, Ron L wrote: I can agree with the possibility of dirt getting in grease and causing wear but I'm not sure about the self lubricating aspect of this post. Anyone else want to weigh in on this? Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Rich Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 12:00 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Re: Noisy Home Brass gears meshed with steel gears should never be greased or heavily lubricated. They are self lubricating. Any extra lube will hold dirt which will imbed into the brass which will result in excessive wear on the harder (steel) gear. If you van see of feel the lubricant then there is way too much. Rich On Tue, 2 Jan 2007 10:46:15 -0500, Ron L wrote: How are the rubber mounts between bedplate and motor, and between upper works and bedplate? Are the gears lightly greased or just oiled? Have the conical bearings on the mandrel shaft ever been disturbed, especially turned and/or moved in or out? ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] My dilemma - which machine would you pick??
I'd go for the open horn machine. They look great, sound a bit better than the Victrola and take up less space/are easily transported. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of john robles Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 11:48 AM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] My dilemma - which machine would you pick?? I am trying to decide between two machines, and I thought it would be fun to throw the question out there - Given a choice of a one-family, TOTALLY unrestored Victor II Humpback with an aftermarket horn with 12 petals lacquered red, green and gold and bearing a 4 digit serial number, OR a Victrola 130 (late model Victrola XVII with the little drawer for used needles) with beautiful gold hardware, nice original finish, either of which you could have for $1150-1250, which would you choose?? John Robles ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank
[Phono-L] uh, wow...
I have not tried it but I think the speed control is capable of making the turntable go very slowly. It controls speed and not spring power, so unless the spring is so weak that it depends on a flywheel effect from the turntable, it could very well play a 45 or a 33.3. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Robert Wright Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 6:57 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] uh, wow... I played 45's on victrolas as a kid, too, but this phonograph is running at exactly 45rpm (a quick comparison to a modern cd issue of Love Me Tender will show this). That's the part I was bewildered by. Was there ever any kind of mod available (as horrible an idea as it would've been) that made wind-up phonographs play at 45rpm? Man I hope not, but I could certainly see some company 'inventing' a conversion kit with claims of identical fidelity to electric etc., etc., and taking the money and running. - Original Message - From: estott est...@localnet.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 5:12 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] uh, wow... Playing a 45 on a victorola isn't that hard, it helps that they often presed them in a very hard plastic. The greatest chance for the needle to rip out the groove is at the beginning- if you can get past that point the needle seems to ride pretty well, I recall that I had to do a lot of experimenting with needle grades. Now, if you're all agast, I was doing this back in grade school. As a kid I even played 33's with a counterweight systen on the soundbox. Eric Stott - Original Message - From: Robert Wright esrobe...@hotmail.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 1:54 AM Subject: [Phono-L] uh, wow... Can someone tell me how this can be possible? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twgw-MReQaI Judging by the sound changing as the camcorder gets closer to and farther from the horn, and the amateurish vibe of the clip, it doesn't seem to be any kind of hoax. (Also notice the shredding of the poor record when he gets close enough to see it.) ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank
[Phono-L] WANTED: Automatic Reproducer
Thanks! Ron -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of drbor...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 12:02 AM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] WANTED: Automatic Reproducer A recent article in The Sound Box containing production dates for the suitcase Home indicated 35,873 was made in October, 1900. David -Original Message- From: lhera...@bu.edu To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 10:05 PM Subject: RE: [Phono-L] WANTED: Automatic Reproducer When would 35873 have been made? That's my suitcase Home and it had (still has) a winged C with the side arm, when I acquired it in the late 1960s. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of gpaul2...@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 5:18 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] WANTED: Automatic Reproducer Mario, Home Phonograph No.25936 was built in February 1900; a bit early for a winged Model C, although a perfectly legitimate update for the machine. George Paul ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://phono-l.oldcrank.org/archive/ Phono-L RSS Feed http://www.oldcrank.org/phono-l/feed/index.rss Support Phono-L http://www.cafepress.com/oldcrank
