[Phono-L] Dr. Philip Peterson
Jay, The fact that you invoked the word infamous suggests that you know something of the man...? It's a tragic story (and I'm unaware of many details that others can supply), but the story is basically this:? Dr. Philip Peterson was a professor at Stanford University, and during the late 1960s and 1970s contributed some first-class research to the field of antique phonographs and records.? Most of his contributions? - at least those of which I'm aware - were published in the Antique Phonograph Collectors Society Newsletter/Journal.? This organization and its publication ceased existence around 1977.? I started visiting the Edison National Historic Site in West Orange, New Jersey in 1978.? My interest was research, and the staff there at the time were most accommodating.? I made advance arrangements, and upon arrival, was shown to the underground vaults.? A pile of notebooks had been usually been gathered for me, and I had basically free rein of the place.? I remember a moment during my first visit when it occurred to me that the handwriting I was reading in the notebooks looked somewhat familiar. As a staffer passed by, I asked who had made the notations I was reading.? The answer was Oh - that's the 'Old Man.'? I was taken aback.? Who was I to be leafing through these historic documents without protective gloves, and without supervision?? I spent many hours in the vaults wading through literally mountains of information, rare white wax cylinders,20and experimental records (such as a glass based cylinder).? Any documents I wanted copied were cheerfully done for I believe 10 cents each.? Each time I left the Site, I shook hands with the staffers and thanked them for their help.? And it occurred to me every time I walked out unsearched that security was pretty lax.? Unfortunately, it also occurred to Dr. Philip Peterson - - and not-so-coincidentally Dr. Peterson began holding mail auctions of outstanding Edison ephemera - - most of it consisting of rare and early documents... Around 1985, the Site sent out a mass appeal to collectors.? They were missing documents, many of which matched the descriptions offered by Dr. Peterson in his mail auctions.? Anyone who knew the whereabouts of these artifacts was encouraged to contact the Site or the FBI.? Dr. Peterson was convicted of stealing a multitude of artifacts from the Site, and ultimately served some time in prison.? He passed away not long after he was released, but I don't know when that occurred.? Meanwhile, some VERY honest collectors returned some of the stolen property to the Site - - and swallowed the substantial loss they incurred.? I'm afraid that's the only bright spot in the whole sad story.? Many of the documents were never recovered, and Dr. Peterson was found to have destroyed a number of documents by cutting Edison's signature from them and selling only the signature - - an untraceable crime.? So, a man who could have been remembered today as the excellent researcher he was, and a contributor to our hobby, instead stole from the Site, cheated collectors by selling them stolen property, and permanently erased a portion of Edison history through the destruction of documents in an unsuccessful effort to cover his tracks.? Tragedy upon tragedy.? Needless to say, security at the Site has dramatically improved. George Paul -Original Message- From: Jay Horenstein jay.horenst...@gmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 4:53 pm Subject: [Phono-L] Dr. Philip Peterson I don?t mean to stir up any trouble, but I?m curious as to who this infamous Dr. Philip Peterson is? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.58/2062 - Release Date: 4/16/2009 8:12 AM ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Dr. Philip Peterson
Thanks to Bob, I stand corrected - - there was another hero in the mess; Dr. Cox.? I hadn't heard of him - - thanks, Bob! George Paul -Original Message- From: RBaumbach phonol...@mac.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 5:34 pm Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Dr. Philip Peterson http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/11/AR2007041102265.html? ? On ThursdayApril 16, 2009, at 1:53 PM, Jay Horenstein wrote:? ? I don?t mean to stir up any trouble, but I?m curious as to who this infamous? Dr. Philip Peterson is?? ? ? No virus found in this outgoing message.? Checked by AVG.? Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.58/2062 - Release Date: 4/16/2009? 8:12 AM? ? ___? Phono-L mailing list? http://phono-l.oldcrank.org? ? ___? Phono-L mailing list? http://phono-l.oldcrank.org?
[Phono-L] Dr. Philip Peterson
Scott, No, the glass cylinder I saw at the Site wasn't shaped like a typical cylinder, and had a light coating of wax on a transparent glass base.? The cylinder is pictured in an article I wrote in the January 1982 issue of the Antique Phonograph Monthly. George Paul -Original Message- From: Scott and Denise Corbett sdcorb...@earthlink.net To: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 9:42 pm Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Dr. Philip Peterson George, Thanks for that informative (and sad) story. Something you said caught my eye. It was about the glass based cylinder. A few years ago I discovered a strange cylinder in a group of run-of-the-mill titles. It was black, heavy, and the same size and shape as a cylinder. When I tried it on a mandrel, it was a perfect fit! It had a beveled edge, but no grooves or writing of any kind. Bruce Peterson (a fellow collector and a all around great guy and NO relation to the fore mentioned Dr. Peterson), tested it in his laboratory. His machine determined that the core was glass. Somewhere, I had a list of other trace amounts. Does this match what you remember 30 years ago? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Scott Denise Corbett -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of gpaul2...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 2:57 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Dr. Phili p Peterson Jay, The fact that you invoked the word infamous suggests that you know something of the man... It's a tragic story (and I'm unaware of many details that others can supply), but the story is basically this: Dr. Philip Peterson was a professor at Stanford University, and during the late 1960s and 1970s contributed some first-class research to the field of antique phonographs and records. Most of his contributions - at least those of which I'm aware - were published in the Antique Phonograph Collectors Society Newsletter/Journal. This organization and its publication ceased existence around 1977. I started visiting the Edison National Historic Site in West Orange, New Jersey in 1978. My interest was research, and the staff there at the time were most accommodating. I made advance arrangements, and upon arrival, was shown to the underground vaults. A pile of notebooks had been usually been gathered for me, and I had basically free rein of the place. I remember a moment during my first visit when it occurred to me that the handwriting I was reading in the notebooks looked somewhat familiar. As a staffer passed by, I asked who had made the notations I was reading. The answer was Oh - that's the 'Old Man.' I was taken aback. Who was I to be leafing through these historic documents without protective gloves, and without supervision? I spent many hours in the vaults wading through literally mountains of information, rare20white wax cylinders,20and experimental records (such as a glass based cylinder). Any documents I wanted copied were cheerfully done for I believe 10 cents each. Each time I left the Site, I shook hands with the staffers and thanked them for their help. And it occurred to me every time I walked out unsearched that security was pretty lax. Unfortunately, it also occurred to Dr. Philip Peterson - - and not-so-coincidentally Dr. Peterson began holding mail auctions of outstanding Edison ephemera - - most of it consisting of rare and early documents... Around 1985, the Site sent out a mass appeal to collectors. They were missing documents, many of which matched the descriptions offered by Dr. Peterson in his mail auctions. Anyone who knew the whereabouts of these artifacts was encouraged to contact the Site or the FBI. Dr. Peterson was convicted of stealing a multitude of artifacts from the Site, and ultimately served some time in prison. He passed away not long after he was released, but I don't know when that occurred. Meanwhile, some VERY honest collectors returned some of the stolen property to the Site - - and swallowed the substantial loss they incurred. I'm afraid that's the only bright spot in the whole sad story. Many of the documents were never recovered, and Dr. Peterson was found to have destroyed a number of documents by cutting Edison's signature from them and selling only the signature - - an untraceable crime. So, a man who could have been remembered today as the excellent researcher he was, and a contributor to our hobby, instead stole from the Site, cheated collectors by selling them stolen property, and permanently erased a portion of Edison history through the destruction of documents in an unsuccessful effort to cover his tracks. Tragedy upon tragedy. Needless to say, security at the Site has dramatically improved. George Paul -Original Message- From: Jay Horenstein jay.horenst...@gmail.com To: phono-l
[Phono-L] Suggestions On Getting A Nice Shine
I take mine to a professional refurbisher of brass band instruments.? In the summers, he's often busy with school instruments, but during the fall and winter is a better time.? I've spent 4-5 hours working on the bell of a 42 horn, only to take a similar horn to the refurbisher and have it look much better for $80.00.? For my money/time, there's no question of which is the better route.? Check your yellow pages, and good luck! George P. -Original Message- From: kugl...@wmconnect.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 11:40 am Subject: [Phono-L] Suggestions On Getting A Nice Shine Hi, I have several original brass bell horns that are in need of being brought back to life. The brass is dull. What do you experts recommend in getting a nice bright shine back? Thanks much. Brantley ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Research: Amberolas 1A and 1B
Bob, The information you send on your FIVE (!) Amberolas - and even some that you sold - was very helpful! I want to thank you again for your help with my Amberola 1A research, and to ask your continued help with some followup questions.? The information supplied by owners of 1As sometimes included data I hadn't asked for - yet it opened further avenues of research.? If I can impose on you once more to answer the following questions, we can hopefully clear up most of the mystery that surrounds the Amberola 1As. I'd like to add the following data to that which you have already kindly supplied me: 1) Your 1A serial number (for tracking purposes): 2) Number of vents/louvers on the side of your cabinet: 3) Does your cabinet have cloven hooves as front feet? 4) Is your interior grille (behind the mechanism) 1-piece or 2-piece?? Lattice or curlycue design? 5) What is the height of your cabinet? (Please note if height is without casters): 6) Are the record drawer fronts separated from each other by trim, or do they virtually touch each other? 7) Is there a cabinet number stamped anywhere?? Particularly under the horn? 8) Are there blue ink, pencil, or chalk markings inside the cabinet or on the backs of the drawers? 9) Are the drawer backs finished? 10) Finally, does the lock take a flat key or round shank key?? Is there a lock code stamped on the lock? I realize that I'm imposing, and please know that I appreciate your assistance.? This is a labor of love for both of us! Best regards, George Paul
[Phono-L] Research: Amberolas 1A and 1B
Dear Jim, I want to thank you again for your help with my Amberola 1A research, and to ask your continued help with some followup questions.? The information supplied by owners of 1As sometimes included data I hadn't asked for - yet it opened further avenues of research.? If I can impose on you once more to answer the following questions, we can hopefully clear up most of the mystery that surrounds the Amberola 1As. I'd like to add the following data to that which you have already kindly supplied me: 1) Your 1A serial number (for tracking purposes): 2) Number of vents/louvers on the side of your cabinet: 3) Does your cabinet have cloven hooves as front feet? 4) Is your interior grille (behind the mechanism) 1-piece or 2-piece?? Lattice or curlycue design? 5) What is the height of your cabinet? (Please note if height is without casters): 6) Are the record drawer fronts separated from each other by trim, or do they virtually touch each other? 7) Is there a cabinet number stamped anywhere?? Particularly under the horn? 8) Are there blue ink, pencil, or chalk markings inside the cabinet or on the backs of the drawers? 9) Are the drawer backs finished? 10) Finally, does the lock take a flat key or round shank key?? Is there a lock code stamped on the lock? I realize that I'm imposing, and please know that I appreciate your assistance.? This is a labor of love for both of us! Best regards, George Paul
[Phono-L] Research: Amberolas 1A and 1B
Ooops - I must apologize to the list.? I thought I was sending these directly to Bob Johnson and Jim Cartwright.? Kindly forgive my computer illiteracy.? ...But in an attempt to salvage a humiliating situation, if any of you have not yet responded, here's your chance!? If you'd care to send me A) the serial number, B) type of lid - early smooth or later stepped, C) whether the corner post tops are carved or smooth, D) type of grille - lyre, 1st Rococo, or 2nd Rococo, E) whether the front door has a flat or curved bottom edge, F) whether the drawers are equipped with clips or wooden dividers, and the ten followup questions below, I'll gratefully add your information to the database.? Results will be shared in an upcoming issue of The Soundbox.? Once again, my apology to the list for bothering everyone with this. Best regards and a happy Thanksgiving to all - - George Paul -Original Message- From: gpaul2...@aol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 8:46 pm Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Research: Amberolas 1A and 1B Dear Jim, I want to thank you again for your help with my Amberola 1A research, and to ask your continued help with some followup questions.? The information supplied by owners of 1As sometimes included data I hadn't asked for - yet it opened further avenues of research.? If I can impose on you once more to answer the following questions, we can hopefully clear up most of the mystery that surrounds the Amberola 1As. I'd like to add the following data to that which you have already kindly supplied me: 1) Your 1A serial number (for tracking purposes): 2) Number of vents/louvers on the side of your cabinet: 3) Does your cabinet have cloven hooves as front feet? 4) Is your interior grille (behind the mechanism) 1-piece or 2-piece?? Lattice or curlycue design? 5) What is the height of your cabinet? (Please note if height is without casters): 6) Are the record drawer fronts separated from each other by trim, or do they virtually touch each other? 7) Is there a cabinet number stamped anywhere?? Particularly under the horn? 8) Are there blue ink, pencil, or chalk markings inside the cabinet or on the backs of the drawers? 9) Are the drawer backs finished? 10) Finally, does the lock take a flat key or round shank key?? Is there a lock code stamped on the lock? I realize that I'm imposing, and please know that I appreciate your assistance.? This is a labor of love for both of us! Best regards, George Paul ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Ragtime Fabrizio
Okay - okay - - this is going in a direction I don't care for! I'd prefer Uncle George Kicking the Fabrizio?!?! George Paul -Original Message- From: Daniel Melvin d...@old-phonographs.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 12:05 am Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Ragtime Fabrizio How can we work Shamandy into all this. Is George or Tim going to wear the dress and feather hat? Dan - Original Message - From: phonop...@aol.com To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:08 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Ragtime Fabrizio Don't I have something to say about this??? But I DO like the Ragtime Oliphants--- instead of the Boxers, you have the Oliphant brothers. The same set-up could be used with Ragtime Fabrizio Paul --- except they'd be hitting each other with books. Tim Fabrizio phonophan PO Box 747 Henrietta, NY 14467 TEL 585 582 1586 FAX 585 582 2624 Web site: www.phonophan.com **AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other Holiday needs. Search Now. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/10075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from -aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear0001) ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Ragtime Fabrizio
Jim, Getting involved is one thing - - it was the dress and flowery hat that gave me pause...! -Original Message- From: Jim Nichol jnic...@fuse.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 10:01 am Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Ragtime Fabrizio George, if you don't want to get involved, it could be changed to Fabrizio and Kaplan. (Mark Kaplan was Tim's old record auction partner, for those who don't remember). Jim On Nov 9, 2008, at 7:49 AM, gpaul2000 at aol.com wrote: Okay - okay - - this is going in a direction I don't care for! I'd prefer Uncle George Kicking the Fabrizio?!?! George Paul -Original Message- From: Daniel Melvin dan at old-phonographs.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 12:05 am Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Ragtime Fabrizio How can we work Shamandy into all this. Is George or Tim going to wear the dress and feather hat? Dan - Original Message - From: Phonophan at aol.com To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:08 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Ragtime Fabrizio Don't I have something to say about this??? But I DO like the Ragtime Oliphants--- instead of the Boxers, you have the Oliphant brothers. The same set-up could be used with Ragtime Fabrizio Paul --- except they'd be hitting each other with books. Tim Fabrizio phonophan PO Box 747 Henrietta, NY 14467 TEL 585 582 1586 FAX 585 582 2624 Web site: www.phonophan.com **AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other Holiday needs. Search Now. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/10075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from -aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear0001) ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Crook on eBay
Bill, You weren't too late.? I contacted cylinderfan early this morning.? He sent back a nice note thanking me for the heads-up and admitting that he thought it was too good to be true.? George Paul -Original Message- From: buck Buchanan ret.army...@yahoo.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 11:59 am Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Ragtime Fabrizio Tim He sold the player to cylinderfan( 234) 234 ?? US $619.00 Nov-08-0820:17:55 PSTI emailed the person hoping to stop them from paying for the item. Lets hope I was not too late. Bill --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Michael F. Khanchalian mfkhanchalian at altrionet.com wrote: From: Michael F. Khanchalian mfkhanchal...@altrionet.com Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Ragtime Fabrizio To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l at oldcrank.org Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 11:16 AM H, I wonder what would be the right musique to play while that ragtime toy is operating? Mikie Sent from my iPhone On Nov 9, 2008, at 7:01 AM, Jim Nichol jnichol at fuse.net wrote: George, if you don't want to get involved, it could be changed to Fabrizio and Kaplan. (Mark Kaplan was Tim's old record auction partner, for those who don't remember). Jim On Nov 9, 2008, at 7:49 AM, gpaul2000 at aol.com wrote: Okay - okay - - this is going in a direction I don't care for! I'd prefer Uncle George Kicking the Fabrizio?!?! George Paul -Original Message- From: Daniel Melvin dan at old-phonographs.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 12:05 am Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Ragtime Fabrizio How can we work Shamandy into all this. Is George or Tim going to wear the dress and feather hat? Dan - Original Message - From: Phonophan at aol.com To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:08 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Ragtime Fabrizio Don't I have something to say about this??? But I DO like the Ragtime Oliphants--- instead of the Boxers, you have the Oliphant brothers. The same set-up could be used with Ragtime Fabrizio Paul --- except they'd be hitting each other with books. Tim Fabrizio phonophan PO Box 747 Henrietta, NY 14467 TEL 585 582 1586 FAX 585 582 2624 Web site: www.phonophan.com **AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other Holiday needs. Search Now. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/10075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from -aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear0001) ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Research: Amberolas 1A and 1B
Bob, Wow - thanks for all that information!? Your data brings the number of 1As in my database to 45.? Just to be sure - - your 1284 is a smooth lid?? Thanks again, Bob - - I really appreciate it. Best, George -Original Message- From: Bob Johnson bjohn...@mrvictor.com To: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 9:36 am Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Research: Amberolas 1A and 1B George: I tried to send you a direct email but it bounced back for some reason: here is my 1A info: SN 920 on ID plate and stamped on wood under horizontal right grill. Mech is SN 1948. smooth lid (non stepped), carving on upper front columns, door has curved bottom, metal clips, 3 side vents, urn grill, mahogany, 2-piece horizontal grill around horn neck. SN 1086 on ID plate, mech and stamped in wood. Smooth lid. No carving on upper columns. Door has curved bottom, metal clips, 3 side vents, urn grill, mahogany, single piece horizontal grill. SN 403 on ID plate and mech. Not stamped into wood. No carving on upper front columns. Smooth lid, door has curved bottom, egg crate dividers in drawers, 3 side vents, lyre grill, oak, single piece horizontal grill. SN 1284 on ID plate, mech and stamped on wood. Fancy carving on upper columns, door has curved bottom, metal clips, 3 side vents, early rococo grill, oak, single piece horizontal grill SN 2861 on ID plate, mech and stamped into wood. Smooth lid, carvings on upper columns, door bottom is curved, 3 side vents, urn grill, oak, 2 piece horizontal grill. I sold SN 482 but it had SN on ID plate and Mech. Smooth lid, no carvings on upper columns, door had curved bottom, 3 side vents, lyre grill, 2 piece horizontal grill, mahogany, metal clips I sold SN 83 - had SN stamped on ID plate and mech. Smooth lid, door with curved bottom, 2 side vents, lyre grill, mahogany, flat dolphin key for door and lid. Don't recall horizontal grill make-up I also currently own a 1B and III if you want that data. Best, Bob Johnson in Oregon -Original Message- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of jimcip at earthlink.net Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 7:28 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Research: Amberolas 1A and 1B Dear Mr. Paul: Am glad you are expanding the number of questions asked about the Amberolas I, A and B.In addition to the different feet number of side sound vents you might want to include a more detailed question about the carving on the front upper corner columns since the earlier style with smooth sided lid has either smooth upper columns between the vertical beading or an Art Noveau style leaf design that is completely different from the carving on the later stepped sided lid cabinets. Also the early cabinet has a two piece fretwork with rectangular slots surrounding the neck of the horn whereas later machines have a one piece fretwork with curliqued slots. I'll help in any way I can. Thanks and all good wishes... Very truly yours, Jim Cartwright jimcip at earthlink.net EarthLink Revolves Around You. [Original Message] From: gpaul2000 at aol.com To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Date: 30-Oct-2008 3:26:34 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Research: Amberolas 1A and 1B Jim, Thanks very much for your very helpful listing of all 7 (!) of your Amberola 1As and 1Bs.? I appreciate the trouble you took to compile this for me.? As I dig deeper into this, I may impose upon you for more details re: number of louvers and interior markings - particularly for the examples with cloven hooves.? Thanks again for your tremendous help, Jim! Best, George -Original Message- From: jimcip at earthlink.net jimcip at earthlink.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:52 pm Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Research: Amberolas 1A and 1B Dear Mr. Paul: Am glad you are researching the early Edison Amberolas.I have the following: A, Serial Number 289, mechanism same as nameplate, Lyre grille, smooth lid, no carving on front corner posts other than vertical trim at edges that runs all the way down, door extends downward with serpentine curved bottom - no board under door, wooden dividers in drawers two sound vents on each side, mahogany, single piece wooden fretwork around neck of horn A, Serial Number 859, mechanism same as nameplate, Lyre grille, smooth lid, no carving on front corner posts other than vertical trim at edges that runs
[Phono-L] Research: Amberolas 1A and 1B
Bob, Thanks - I thought 1284 must have a smooth lid based on its other characteristics. I'll be sure you get a copy of the research results, but of course the best method is to subscribe to The Sound Box and have the benefit of 6 or 7 other articles (certainly more interesting than mine!) in each quarterly issue!? Just go to www.ca-phono.org to subscribe.? You won't be sorry - - it's the best publication in our hobby.? Rene Rondeau does a great job as Editor, and I hear that the next issue will have an article on early Edison/Keller coin-ops by Allen Koenigsberg, and an article on Sonora by Bob Baumbach (plus another half-dozen or so articles).? You won't be sorry. Thanks again, Bob - - Best, George Paul
[Phono-L] Amberola 1A, 1B
Bruce, That is truly an interesting machine, Bruce, and my thanks for sending along that information.? I'm particularly interested in the cloven hoof cabinets, and yours - with the characteristics you describe - aids me in this research.? Thanks very much! Best, George Paul -Original Message- From: valecnik57-p...@yahoo.com To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 4:33 am Subject: [Phono-L] Amberola 1A, 1B Greg, George, I have an A300 diamond disc in walnut?with?the following characteristics: - Pooly cabinet (I assume) with split hoof - about 2 inches shorter than standard A20/A300? (but same height as my 1A, 1B) - with three louvres on each side - same amount of space for record compartment as 1A,? but 2 drawers, top drawer for 10inch bottom drawer for 12 inch records, a few 10 inch records catch on the top of the compartment as you open/close the door.? Its that tight. - 12 edison advertising record will barely fit in the 12 compartment, (I only have one to test it) - individual wood dividers between each record in the drawers - top of the cabinet cut down about 1/2 inch on crank side (where record cut out would be on a 1A) and wood replaced.?Appears to be factory?refit to elimiinate the record cut out.? Barlely visible difference in grain with light checking over whole surface - Holes drilled in the inside of the cabinet to mount an Amberola 1 motor, clean, appears no motor was ever in there Appears that this cabinet was intended for a 1A mechanism but then retrofitted for a DD mechanism.? I wrote Mr. Frow a letter several years ago and he suggested this was likely the case. Although this is not exactly related to your discussion on the 1A, 1B, I thought it might be an interesting digression.? Bruce J ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Research: Amberolas 1A and 1B
Greg, Get outta my head!? Based on some of the data I've been getting, I'd really like to take a shot at nailing down some identifying characteristics of the Herzog vs. Pooley cabinets.? The cloven hooves appear in the Pooley patent drawing, so that one's fairly straighforward - as long as other characteristics follow the same pattern.? This morning I sent a couple of emails to owners asking for more information - - including 3 of the 4 characteristics you've mentioned, plus whether blue marker pencil was used on the outside far end of the drawers, and if numbers were stamped into the interior or chalked.? Right now I don't know what any of these things mean - if anything - but I'm looking for patterns.? I surely appreciate your input, Greg, and once new data peters out (it has almost stopped already at about 30 1As and a dozen 1Bs), I'm going to start bugging owners again.? Thanks for your suggestions - - I'll include height, lock type, number of louvers, and foot style in my next inquiry, along with those interior markings... Best regards, George -Original Message- From: Greg Bogantz gbogan...@charter.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 3:23 pm Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Research: Amberolas 1A and 1B George, I'll be sending the data on my 1A and 1B to you separately. But I got to thinking that there may be some more variations among these early amberolas that you ought to explore. Several years ago there was some discussion on some of the phono boards about the rarity - or not - of the split hoof foot on the early Pooley cabinet (third picture from left on page 163 of Frow). In my experience most of the Pooley 1As that I've seen have the split hoof. Whereas my 1B has the lion's paw feet. It would be interesting if you also gathered this information from our readers. Also, I think I've seen newer Pooley style cabinets (perhaps actually made by Edison) that did not have the grille louvers on the sides of the cabinet. Frow also mentions that variations of the Pooley cabinet were made such that the same cabinet could be used for both amberolas and the first disc machines. He says that there is a height variation of some 2 inches among these versions. And evidently only the earliest Herzog cabinets had the flat lock key whereas the later cabinets used the more common barrel style key. So I'm suggesting that you add four more items to your questionnaire: -- Style of front foot (split hoof, lion's paw, other) -- Presence and number of louvers on cabinet side -- Height of cabinet (not counting casters) -- Type of key (flat or barrel) Greg Bogantz - Original Message - From: gpaul2...@aol.com To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 11:46 AM Subject: [Phono-L] Research: Amberolas 1A and 1B I'm asking for data from owners of Amberolas 1A and 1B. I'm working on an article on the early Amberolas, similar to a study done on suitcase Homes two years ago and published in The Sound Box. Data received will be compiled in an article scheduled to appear in the March 2009 issue of The Sound Box, and all contributors will be acknowledged. (If you'd like your data/identity to be kept confidential, I will of course honor your wishes. I can be contacted directly at gpaul2000 at aol.com.) I'm looking for the following information from owners of Amberolas 1A or 1B: 1) Type (1A or 1B)? 2) Serial Number (and do data plate and mechanism numbers match? 3) Lid: smooth or stepped? 4) Upper front corner posts: plain or carved? 5) Grille: Lyre, first rococo, or second rococo (all shown on page 163 of Frow)? 6) Apron (bottom of cabinet): wavy or more flattened (as shown on page 163 of Frow)? 7) Drawers: wooden separators or metal clips? I will gratefully accept data here at Phono-L, or at gpaul2000 at aol.com. Thanks in advance for your help! Best to all, George Paul ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Research: Amberolas 1A and 1B
As I wrote in my initial posting, the results of my research - including photos - is scheduled to be published in the March 2009 issue of The Sound Box. I'm not one to take a proprietary view of data, and I trust that 60-odd articles I've written and 8 books I've coauthored will bear me out on that. We'd all be in a sorry state if George Frow, Bob Baumbach, Rene Rondeau, Ron Dethlefson, and others had not shared their research with us! George Paul -Original Message- From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 4:57 pm Subject: [Phono-L] Research: Amberolas 1A and 1B Where and when will the results of this survey be published? The reason that I ask is that I am aware of several data collection efforts that have been ongoing for years or completed yet the data collected is either closely held, or never published at all, or quietly published in some obscure publication. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Research: Amberolas 1A and 1B
Peter, I certainly have nothing against Amberola IIIs! It's just that I've been wanting to clear up some early 1909-1911 Amberola questions for a long time, and I'm not getting any younger... Are there questions surrounding the Amberola III? Best, George Paul
[Phono-L] Research: Amberolas 1A and 1B
I don't consider either the Amberola III or the 1B to be common machines.? As to which is rarer, I wouldn't hazard a guess... George Paul -Original Message- From: Jim Nichol jnic...@fuse.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 3:38 pm Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Research: Amberolas 1A and 1B The only question I'm aware of for the Amberola III is why there is apparently less interest in them than the Amberola I. Are they a lot more rare? Jim On Oct 26, 2008, at 2:24 PM, gpaul2000 at aol.com wrote: Peter, I certainly have nothing against Amberola IIIs! It's just that I've been wanting to clear up some early 1909-1911 Amberola questions for a long time, and I'm not getting any younger... Are there questions surrounding the Amberola III? Best, George Paul ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Research: Amberolas 1A and 1B
Steve, No - I haven't pursued any research on the Amberola 60 or 80, so I couldn't offer a guess on their production.? Thanks for your kind words about the Home article...? I couldn't do it without all the help from the list! Best, George Paul -Original Message- From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 8:12 pm Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Research: Amberolas 1A and 1B Hello George, Do you have any idea how many amberola 60 or 80's were made? I loved your home article and look forward to your new article. Steve
[Phono-L] Research: Amberolas 1A and 1B
I'm asking for data from owners of Amberolas 1A and 1B. I'm working on an article on the early Amberolas, similar to a study done on suitcase Homes two years ago and published in The Sound Box. Data received will be compiled in an article scheduled to appear in the March 2009 issue of The Sound Box, and all contributors will be acknowledged. (If you'd like your data/identity to be kept confidential, I will of course honor your wishes. I can be contacted directly at gpaul2000 at aol.com.) I'm looking for the following information from owners of Amberolas 1A or 1B: 1) Type (1A or 1B)? 2) Serial Number (and do data plate and mechanism numbers match? 3) Lid: smooth or stepped? 4) Upper front corner posts: plain or carved? 5) Grille: Lyre, first rococo, or second rococo (all shown on page 163 of Frow)? 6) Apron (bottom of cabinet): wavy or more flattened (as shown on page 163 of Frow)? 7) Drawers: wooden separators or metal clips? I will gratefully accept data here at Phono-L, or at gpaul2000 at aol.com. Thanks in advance for your help! Best to all, George Paul
[Phono-L] Research: Amberolas 1A and 1B
Mark, Thanks for your information - - you're the first to submit a 1B!? Best, George -Original Message- From: Mark Lynch markely...@earthlink.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 10:45 pm Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Research: Amberolas 1A and 1B Hi George, I always enjoy your articles and am happy to submit this info on my mahogany Amberola. Best Regards, Mark 1) Type (1A or 1B)? 1B 2) Serial Number (and do data plate and mechanism numbers match? Mech: 4248-B1 Data plate: 4248 B1 3) Lid: smooth or stepped? Stepped 4) Upper front corner posts: plain or carved? Carved 5) Grille: Lyre, first rococo, or second rococo (all shown on page 163 of Frow)? Second rococo 6) Apron (bottom of cabinet): wavy or more flattened (as shown on page 163 of Frow)? More flattened 7) Drawers: wooden separators or metal clips? Metal Clips [Original Message] From: gpaul2000 at aol.com To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Date: 10/25/2008 11:47:11 AM Subject: [Phono-L] Research: Amberolas 1A and 1B I'm asking for data from owners of Amberolas 1A and 1B. I'm working on an article on the early Amberolas, similar to a study done on suitcase Homes two years ago and published in The Sound Box. Data received will be compiled in an article scheduled to appear in the March 2009 issue of The Sound Box, and all contributors will be acknowledged. (If you'd like your data/identity to be kept confidential, I will of course honor your wishes. I can be contacted directly at gpaul2000 at aol.com.) I'm looking for the following information from owners of Amberolas 1A or 1B: 1) Type (1A or 1B)? 2) Serial Number (and do data plate and mechanism numbers match? 3) Lid: smooth or stepped? 4) Upper front corner posts: plain or carved? 5) Grille: Lyre, first rococo, or second rococo (all shown on page 163 of Frow)? 6) Apron (bottom of cabinet): wavy or more flattened (as shown on page 163 of Frow)? 7) Drawers: wooden separators or metal clips? I will gratefully accept data here at Phono-L, or at gpaul2000 at aol.com. Thanks in advance for your help! Best to all, George Paul ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Edison cylinder record cabinet. Questions???
Jerry, In the early years, Edison marketed a few cylinder record cabinets, but never with an Edison decal. Some old-timer evidently improved it! George Paul -Original Message- From: DeeDee Blais deedeebl...@yahoo.com To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 3:26 pm Subject: [Phono-L] Edison cylinder record cabinet. Questions??? I recently purchased a cylinder record cabinet that I plan to resell. It's a one door cabinet and behind the door are four pull outs with thirty pegs at each level. All 120 pegs are there and the original finish on the cabinet it excellent. Right in the middle of the door is an Edison decal that looks like a 1970's or 80's variety with the curved dot over the i in Edison. I was ready to remove the decal when I noticed that it was applied over a previous Edison decal. Did the Edison factory market and sell cabinets that were identified as Edison cabinets? (You'd think after 35 years of collecting, I would know the answer to my question!) Thanks, Jerry Blais ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Edison Repeater
If anyone has an Edison Model D Repeater for Triumph, or parts thereof, that they'd be willing to sell, I'd be happy to pay the going rate...? Thanks, George Paul
[Phono-L] zinc horn
As a matter of fact, I have a 30 zinc horn for cylinder at a polisher now.? How did you know...? George Paul -Original Message- From: zonophone2...@aol.com To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Tue, 20 May 2008 7:21 pm Subject: [Phono-L] zinc horn hello all i just got back from vermont and bought a 30 inch bell zinc horn i have a witches one now but wondered how many of the zincs are out there anyone else have any i am sure george or tim must best to all zono **Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod000301) ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Victrola XVI L Door Phonograph Help!
It's a Simplex Automatic Start Stop Device.? Two photos of one are shown on page 136 of World of Antique Phonographs, along with an original flyer.? We also used an advertisement for this on the title page of Antique Phonograph Gadgets, Gizmos, and Gimmicks. Come on you guys - - why did we WRITE all those books?! George Paul -Original Message- From: john robles john9...@pacbell.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 7:37 pm Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victrola XVI L Door Phonograph Help! Interesting. Not a Victor product, I am guessing? Robert Plavzic plav...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Looks like an early attempt at an automatic brake. An attachment on the tone arm would touch something on this mecanism causing the brake to engage. (one would of course have to cock it as one began the record.) In one of the pics (P4180108.jpg ) the brake is clearly seen. Also it is positioned strategically where the tone arm would be. Rob On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 11:53 PM, john robles wrote: Hello all A correspondent of mine has an L-Door with an unusual piece of hardware on it - can anyone idenify it? Lookst like a dancing doll attachment or something..note the little wheel... Also she needs a tonearm and reproducer for the Victrola. Can anyone help or guide us to help? You can see the pics at http://s197.photobucket.com/albums/aa39/john9ten/Victrola%20XVI%20L-Door/ Thanks John Robles ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Victrola XVI L Door Phonograph Help!
Aww - that's okay. It gives me a chance to be a wise arse... George Paul -Original Message- From: john robles john9...@pacbell.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 9:39 pm Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victrola XVI L Door Phonograph Help! LOL ok, ok I will check all the books first next time!! J gpaul2...@aol.com wrote: It's a Simplex Automatic Start Stop Device.? Two photos of one are shown on page 136 of World of Antique Phonographs, along with an original flyer.? We also used an advertisement for this on the title page of Antique Phonograph Gadgets, Gizmos, and Gimmicks. Come on you guys - - why did we WRITE all those books?! George Paul -Original Message- From: john robles To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 7:37 pm Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victrola XVI L Door Phonograph Help! Interesting. Not a Victor product, I am guessing? Robert Plavzic wrote: Hello Looks like an early attempt at an automatic brake. An attachment on the tone arm would touch something on this mecanism causing the brake to engage. (one would of course have to cock it as one began the record.) In one of the pics (P4180108.jpg ) the brake is clearly seen. Also it is positioned strategically where the tone arm would be. Rob On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 11:53 PM, john robles wrote: Hello all A correspondent of mine has an L-Door with an unusual piece of hardware on it - can anyone idenify it? Lookst like a dancing doll attachment or something..note the little wheel... Also she needs a tonearm and reproducer for the Victrola. Can anyone help or guide us to help? You can see the pics at http://s197.photobucket.com/albums/aa39/john9ten/Victrola%20XVI%20L-Door/ Thanks John Robles ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Monarch Talking Machine Program
1901-02 Johnson/Victor catalogs differentiated between Victor and Monarch records, and this may have influenced the exhibitor's terminology.? I'm not aware of any Monarch Talking Machine from this era other than the Johnson/Victor machines. George Paul ?
[Phono-L] Universal Talking Machine
This appears to be a Type C equipped with larger support/traveling arms to accommodate a larger horn (but not the horn that's currently on it).? I never heard of a Frank Seamans pre Zonophone Machine other than the Gibson Gramophone, the Montross Berliner, or perhaps a United States Talking Machine, and this is not any of those. George Paul -Original Message- From: BruceY bruce78...@comcast.net To: phonol...@yahoogroups.com Cc: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 9:06 pm Subject: [Phono-L] Universal Talking Machine This has got to be an exceptionally early Frank Seamans pre Zonophone Machine? does anyone know what model this is? does it look all original?? This fellow has a live auction going on here. It even has a buyers premium of 22.5%. There is not even a full description of the items as to condition etc. This is totally Buyer Beware!! http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemih=014sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AITviewitem=item=330219604163rd=1 Bruce ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] No Raps on MAPS, But Seek Chaps for CAPS
Jerry, Thanks for your kind words about my new position in CAPS. There's no doubt that they wanted me simply for eye-candy. But it's worth noting that CAPS is not just for California collectors - any more than MAPS is solely for those living in Michigan. I've been a member of both organizations for many years, and agree that every serious collector should be a member of both. What puzzles me is the number of MAPS members who don't belong to CAPS as well. The CAPS quarterly journal, The Sound Box, is the best - I repeat - THE BEST publication on antique phonographs and related items. It's a large-format magazine (8 1/2 x 11) packed with photos and illustrations. Members just received their March issue last week, and - as in every issue - there are a number of substantive articles for the collector who wants to learn more about our hobby. The eight (yes, EIGHT) articles in the current issue cover these topics:1) A discussion of the Columbia Period Grafonolas, who made the cabinets , and illustrations of 18 different models! 2) An article and 4 photos of an unusual Exposicion gramophone by Larry Karp. Ever seen one of these? 3) Allen Koenigsberg wrote about a long-forgotten 1905 advertising campaign using a giant balloon tethered to a building in New York City to promote Victor Talking Machines (w/5 illustrations). A sudden windstorm brought near-tragedy and one man barely escaped with his life! 4) Thomas Rhodes (Mr.Orthophonic) writes about Joseph Maxfield's sound box - no, not the Orthophonic - the one BEFORE that!? 5) So we thought we knew about EVERY recording of Thomas Edison's voice? How about a 1917 Blue Amberol (yep - it predates Let Us Not Forget) containing Edison himself extolling the new Electrip Ediphone? Plus other related artifacts shown in four photos. 6) Everyone knows that cylinder records are vertically recorded, but if you read The Sound Box, you're also aware of two types of LATERALLY RECORDED cylinder records! 5 photos acc ompany this article. 7) Charles Marowitz writes an article in each issue on early recording stars, and I think he does an excellent job every time. This issue, he covered Annette Hanshaw (including 3 illustrations), and she seemed like such a babe in print that I was inspired to dig out a couple of her records to see what she sounded like. 8) When we think catalog sales, we think of Sears - don't we? Well, Montgomery-Ward put Sears to shame in the 1899-1902 period with the wonderful phonographs it sold, such as Edison Polyphones, Berliner Johnson Gramophones, the Thornward, and others. Nine illustrations from actual catalogs are included in this article. And that's all in just ONE issue of The Sound Box!? Rene Rondeau is the Editor, and does a magnificent job of creating a beautiful, eye-catching journal with full-color covers. There are 36 illustrations in this issue, which doesn't include the 5 pages of advertisements! CAPS maintains a website at www.ca-phono.org. I encourage everyone who's not a member to do themselves a favor and check it out. Sorry for the long essay, but this is really too good to miss! Best to all, George Paul California Antique Phonograph Society PO Box 169 Victorville, California 92393 (Dues are only $25 and include a wonderful quarterly newsletter)
[Phono-L] early edison home with no serial number
Steve, Allen is right - - unscrupulous retailers occasionally found it in their best interest to grind off a serial number so the origin of a particular machine could not be traced. There's nothing else unusual about this Home. The nickeled dataplate mounted on top suggests approx. May-December 1899. John also raises a possibility in that the machine might have been stolen. No way of knowing, but chances are that Home has had a colorful past. That reminds me of a guitar I bought back in 1973. I had been looking around for a Rickenbacker electric 12-string. A friend was buying an amp from a private owner about an hour from home, and I had gone along for the ride. The seller asked if anyone was interested in a guitar, and flipped open a guitar case. I was astonished to see a like-new Rickenbacker 12-string. Cradling it like a baby, I asked the fellow what he wanted for it, expecting to hear the usual $500-$700 price of that time. Instead, he replied, A hundred. Being nineteen ye ars old, this struck me only as a wonderful windfall, and I couldn't pay him fast enough. It was not until the next day when I was searching for its serial number that I discovered three little divots made by a drill bit to obscure the number. And that, Warden, is how I began my life of crime... George Paul -Original Message- From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: Phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 12:37 pm Subject: [Phono-L] early edison home with no serial number George and list, Is it possible for an Edison home not to have a serial number? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=200181396387 Steve___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp000503 From glast...@comcast.net Thu Dec 6 15:25:25 2007 From: glast...@comcast.net (George Glastris) Date: Thu Dec 6 15:29:16 2007 Subject: [Phono-L] early edison home with no serial number References: bay102-w58a1ea87c96f44f229d22f6...@phx.gbl Message-ID: 065601c8385f$4dbf7260$7d57c...@none05vofc1vwp Yes, a number of times I've handled Edison's with the number obliterated or the patent plate removed. - Original Message - From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: Phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 11:37 AM Subject: [Phono-L] early edison home with no serial number George and list, Is it possible for an Edison home not to have a serial number? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=200181396387 Steve___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] early edison home with no serial number
Steve, Allen is right - - unscrupulous retailers occasionally found it in their best interest to grind off a serial number so the origin of a particular machine could not be traced. There's nothing else unusual about this Home. The nickeled dataplate mounted on top suggests approx. May-December 1899. John also raises a possibility in that the machine might have been stolen. No way of knowing, but chances are that Home has had a colorful past. That reminds me of a guitar I bought back in 1973. I had been looking around for a Rickenbacker electric 12-string. A friend was buying an amp from a private owner about an hour from home, and I had gone along for the ride. The seller asked if anyone was interested in a guitar, and flipped open a guitar case. I was astonished to see a like-new Rickenbacker 12-string. Cradling it like a baby, I asked the fellow what he wanted for it, expecting to hear the usual $500-$700 price of that time. Instead, he replied, A hundred. Being nineteen years old, this struck me only as a wonderful windfall, and I couldn't pay him fast enough. It was not until the next day when I was searching for its serial number that I discovered three little divots made by a drill bit to obscure the number. And that, Warden, is how I began my life of crime... George Paul -Original Message- From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: Phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 12:37 pm Subject: [Phono-L] early edison home with no serial number George and list, Is it possible for an Edison home not to have a serial number? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=200181396387 Steve___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp000503 From glast...@comcast.net Thu Dec 6 21:11:15 2007 From: glast...@comcast.net (George Glastris) Date: Thu Dec 6 21:12:18 2007 Subject: [Phono-L] early edison home with no serial number References: bay102-w58a1ea87c96f44f229d22f6...@phx.gbl 8ca069194c1ea92-15e0-1...@webmail-md05.sysops.aol.com Message-ID: 06ca01c8388f$9ce91960$7d57c...@none05vofc1vwp Yes George, all very interesting, but what did you do with said guitar? Turn it in to the police as stolen property (like a good upstanding citizen) or continue with the life of crime, sex, drugs and rock n' roll? Being 1973, my guess is that you decked yourself out in Ziggy Stardust style and became a Marc Bolan groupie. - Original Message - From: gpaul2...@aol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] early edison home with no serial number Steve, Allen is right - - unscrupulous retailers occasionally found it in their best interest to grind off a serial number so the origin of a particular machine could not be traced. There's nothing else unusual about this Home. The nickeled dataplate mounted on top suggests approx. May-December 1899. John also raises a possibility in that the machine might have been stolen. No way of knowing, but chances are that Home has had a colorful past. That reminds me of a guitar I bought back in 1973. I had been looking around for a Rickenbacker electric 12-string. A friend was buying an amp from a private owner about an hour from home, and I had gone along for the ride. The seller asked if anyone was interested in a guitar, and flipped open a guitar case. I was astonished to see a like-new Rickenbacker 12-string. Cradling it like a baby, I asked the fellow what he wanted for it, expecting to hear the usual $500-$700 price of that time. Instead, he replied, A hundred. Being nineteen years old, this struck me only as a wonderful windfall, and I couldn't pay him fast enough. It was not until the next day when I was searching for its serial number that I discovered three little divots made by a drill bit to obscure the number. And that, Warden, is how I began my life of crime... George Paul -Original Message- From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: Phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 12:37 pm Subject: [Phono-L] early edison home with no serial number George and list, Is it possible for an Edison home not to have a serial number? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=200181396387 Steve___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp000503 ___ Phono-L mailing list http
[Phono-L] Special Columbia Record Duster
Three variations of this Columbia record duster can be seen on page 76 (fig. 3-44) of Antique Phonograph Gadgets, Gizmos, and Gimmicks by Fabrizio Paul. They usually sell for under $100. Regards, George Paul -Original Message- From: john robles john9...@pacbell.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 3:23 pm Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Special Columbia Record Duster I have seen these many times. They're not that rare, and certainly not $195 rare. John Robles Jeffry Young, D.O. jeff...@prevea.com wrote: I was at an antique show yesterday in Green Bay. It is an annual show. I usually ask dealers if they have anything phonograph related. This was one of those times I wish I had a cell phone with a camera in it! A dealer showed me a Columbia record duster. The material of the duster was cobalt blue in color. The bottom of the duster was a traditional round shape. The top of the duster was a hexagonal hammered pewter like metal. In the center of this was a small hexagonal handle attached right in the middle that could be swiveled. It had the classic Columbia notes on it. The hammered pewter like metal plate had Columbia on it and phrases like new recording process. Everything on the top of the duster was in raised relief. I have never seen a duster like this. I have to assume that it might have been a dealer premium that would have been given to dealers at a convention, much like the premiums given to jobbers at the Edison dealer conventions. Anyone that that thinks they may know what this is can contact me off line, or if you have a picture of what you think I saw, please send it to me! jeff...@prevea.com The dealer wanted $295 for it, which seems outrageous, even if it was a dealer premium. I was told I could have it for $195. That means he probably has a Ben Franklin invested in it. Jeff Wisconsin ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com From lo...@oldcrank.com Sun Nov 18 12:54:16 2007 From: lo...@oldcrank.com (Loran T. Hughes) Date: Sun Nov 18 12:54:23 2007 Subject: [Phono-L] Special Columbia Record Duster In-Reply-To: 8c9f83969eabe70-60c-...@webmail-df08.sysops.aol.com References: 8c9f83969eabe70-60c-...@webmail-df08.sysops.aol.com Message-ID: 016e13a8-e53a-4b9c-8c3e-203f15aac...@oldcrank.com On Nov 18, 2007, at 12:33 PM, gpaul2...@aol.com wrote: Three variations of this Columbia record duster can be seen on page 76 (fig. 3-44) of Antique Phonograph Gadgets, Gizmos, and Gimmicks by Fabrizio Paul. They usually sell for under $100. Regards, George Paul I have seen these many times. They're not that rare, and certainly not $195 rare. John Robles Seen 'em too. Kinda cool, but definitely not $195 worth! Loran From boehla...@aol.com Sun Nov 18 12:48:47 2007 From: boehla...@aol.com (boehla...@aol.com) Date: Sun Nov 18 12:59:37 2007 Subject: [Phono-L] Special Columbia Record Duster Message-ID: c3c.2436fea3.3471f...@aol.com Skipped content of type multipart/related From srsel...@aol.com Sun Nov 18 13:17:59 2007 From: srsel...@aol.com (srsel...@aol.com) Date: Sun Nov 18 13:18:27 2007 Subject: [Phono-L] MAPS In The Groove for November Message-ID: c4d.22592031.34720...@aol.com Well mine came on Friday and I have to say that It is one of the most info packed issued yet. Between the really detailed article on the Vitaphone system by Tom Rhodes, the nice sharp photos of Phonovention, the nice - and sad - Silent Grooves column and the fact that Phil and Eileen were able to squeeze in all the items I covered in my column, this was one fully packed issue. Well worth waiting for! BTW, because of the Thanksgiving holiday for both columnists like me and the Editors (Phil and Eileen), December will be a little late too but not as late as November. Steve Ramm ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com From cdh...@earthlink.net Sun Nov 18 13:28:31 2007 From: cdh...@earthlink.net (Douglas Houston) Date: Sun Nov 18 13:28:48 2007 Subject: [Phono-L] MAPS In The Groove for November Message-ID: 410-2200711018212831...@earthlink.net Mine came on Friday also. I had wanted to go to the meeting...that night!, but it was just a formal get together after an auction. Called Phil, and he told me all about it. I'd hated to drive 100 miles and find no real meeting. Guess I'll see them after the first. [Original Message] From: srsel...@aol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: 11/18/2007 4:18:34 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] MAPS In The Groove for November Well mine came on Friday and I have to say that It is one of the most info packed issued yet. Between
[Phono-L] Linenoid Horn
Bruce, I don't believe I've ever seen a Linenoid horn for Victor - that's a rare bird! George -Original Message- From: valecnik57-p...@yahoo.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 10:15 am Subject: [Phono-L] Linenoid Horn I have a black linenoid horn designed to fit into a victor elbow. It has three narrow gold bands painted around the outside closer to the bell side. I got it on a victor MS several years ago. I'm guessing the original owner upgraded. Anyway it's really too big for a victor MS, more suited for a victor V, D, or VI. The dark laquered look would make it go especially well with a VI but I have only one VI and some horns that suit it better. Bruce Johnson Pod Valem II, 870 252 43 Pruhonice Czech Republic Tel: (CZ) + 420 602 362 473 Tel: (US) + 1 612 605 5242 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. From plav...@gmail.com Fri Aug 17 07:35:06 2007 From: plav...@gmail.com (Robert Plavzic) Date: Fri Aug 17 07:37:32 2007 Subject: [Phono-L] wow. In-Reply-To: 001601c7df3d$5cd6d250$81c3c...@hpegoy8tx76bnm References: 000e01c7df38$8efc98f0$0301a...@daddell 001601c7df3d$5cd6d250$81c3c...@hpegoy8tx76bnm Message-ID: bc2ea8740708170735k63eddb80j3be91dae0fc8f...@mail.gmail.com Hi Unfortunately thse have been around for a while, usually popping up at antique markets. Probably they are less popular than the 'traditional' crapophonies as the 'traditional' models look more attractive (relatively speaking of course) to people with money to waste. Blickfang means eye catching. regards Rob On 8/15/07, Jim Galoppa edisonst...@comcast.net wrote: One of these just sold at the local Antique auction last weekend for a wopping $350.00, No wonder they call this Slower Lower Delaware !!! Jim G. - Original Message - From: Walt waltsomm...@comcast.net To: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 8:33 AM Subject: RE: [Phono-L] wow. The best thing about it is that it won't take up as much space as some of the others. The worst part is that there is less brass to take to the scrap yard and get cash for. At least the seller isn't saying that it is an antique. He states clearly that it is brand new and that the only genuine thing about it is: EIN ECHTER BLICKFANG. It's a blickfang alright, but aren't they all? LOL Yes, indeed, a BLICKFANG(Loran, can we say that here???) W -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Robert Wright Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 1:13 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: [Phono-L] wow. Anyone seen the 'new' crapophones out there? I can't even imagine they'd function, based on this picture. Amazing. http://cgi.ebay.com/Nost-GRAMMOPHON-HIS-MASTERS-VOICE-Selten_W0QQitemZ120150 839455QQihZ002QQcategoryZ26512QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 8/14/2007 5:19 PM ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From lo...@oldcrank.com Fri Aug 17 11:44:04 2007 From: lo...@oldcrank.com (Loran Hughes) Date: Fri Aug 17 11:46:34 2007 Subject: [Phono-L] wow. In-Reply-To: bc2ea8740708170735k63eddb80j3be91dae0fc8f...@mail.gmail.com References: 000e01c7df38$8efc98f0$0301a...@daddell 001601c7df3d$5cd6d250$81c3c...@hpegoy8tx76bnm bc2ea8740708170735k63eddb80j3be91dae0fc8f...@mail.gmail.com Message-ID: 53db17d8-c0c7-476a-8645-ffc04873b...@oldcrank.com You can see a couple of similar models in the crap-o-phone catalog at http://www.oldcrank.com/articles/crapophone/Introduction_files/ catalog-1.pdf or http://tinyurl.com/18r (warning: 2.7 MB PDF!) Loran On Aug 17, 2007, at 7:35 AM, Robert Plavzic wrote: Hi Unfortunately thse have been around for a while, usually popping up at antique markets. Probably they are less popular than the 'traditional' crapophonies as the 'traditional' models look more attractive (relatively speaking of course) to people with money to waste. Blickfang means eye catching. regards Rob From lo...@oldcrank.com Fri Aug 17 12:01:38 2007 From: lo...@oldcrank.com (Loran Hughes) Date: Fri Aug 17 12:17:47 2007 Subject: [Phono-L] wow. In-Reply-To: 53db17d8-c0c7-476a-8645-ffc04873b...@oldcrank.com References: 000e01c7df38$8efc98f0$0301a...@daddell 001601c7df3d$5cd6d250$81c3c...@hpegoy8tx76bnm
[Phono-L] Wooden Metal Victor Horns
.sysops.aol.com Message-ID: 415671.23356...@web83006.mail.mud.yahoo.com Really interesting! I have been drawn into the mysterious world of wooden horns far deeper than I ever thought I would be! J gpaul2...@aol.com wrote: Victor did not manufacture its own metal flower horns, as the Aug. 22, 1905 patent date will attest: that patent was the property of the Tea Tray Company.? We see this date on Edison horn decals as well - particularly Cygnet horns.? When the 8/22/05 date is not in evidence, the hanger may be mounted on a diamond-shaped plate - the trademark of the Standard Metal Manufacturing Company of Newark, New Jersey.? Those two companies supplied the majority of horns to Victor and Edison, while Columbia seemed to generally prefer the Hawthorne Sheble Manufacturing Company for its horns. As for wooden horns, I doubt that Sheip Vandegrift manufactured Victor No.31 (spear-tip) and No.30 horns, as SV made a strong point of advertising its Music Master horns as Solid Wood: Not Veneered.? Surely SV would not have disparaged the products it was making for others under contract!? The metal collar of a Victor No.30 horn in my collection references two patents by month and year: Sept. 04 and March 05.? A little research suggests one of these patents to be No.770,024, awarded on Sept. 13, 1904 to Bartolo Ruggiero and Gaetano Bongiorno; both of Brooklyn.? This patent describes what we would recognize as the Victor No.30 horn.? However, the patent specifies that the horn could be made of wood OR fiber.? Perhaps J.S. Spaulding Sons of Rochester, New Hampshire (who manufactured fiber horns for Canadian Berliner) was manufacturing the No.30 horn in wood as well.? The other wooden horn Victor patent is No.784,385, awarded March 7, 1905 to Alfred R. Cunnius of Brooklyn.? One-half of this patent was assigned to Lipman Kaiser of New York.? This patent shows what we would recognize as the Victor No.31 horn.? Again, was J.S. Spaulding Sons a supplier of this horn?? Or perhaps a firm definitely known to have manufactured veneered horns such as the Wooden Phonograph Horn Company of Syracuse, NY. was contracted by Victor; Columbia relied on this company for some of its wooden horns. The paper mache horns for the earliest Victor VI were most definitely made in Japan (Kobe), and marketed as the Allen's Paper Lacquer Horn.? During the 1905 Russo-Japanese War, these horns became unavailable, and substitute metal horns were supplied with special labels stating that they were a substitute for the paper mache horn and could be exchanged for the latter when they once again became available.? Tim Fabrizio has one of these substitute metal horns with its interesting label. I'd be most interested to learn what firm(s) actually manufactured Victor's wooden horns. George Paul AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Dating pre-1915 A-series Edison Disc Phonographs
Andy, Looks like you're narrowing the window of possibility for your machine's manufacture - and the clues were right there all along!? I don't have a sense of how long it took for new patent dates to appear on Edison dataplates, as this would imply that newly-patented features appeared on those particular machines.? I suspect that the time varied, depending on whether the model in question was a faster-selling one (such as the A-250) or slow-selling one (such as the A-150) with larger inventories of unsold machines.? In any event, based on the evidence you've discovered today, I'd amend my earlier assessment to late 1912/early 1913 for your example.? Here's a puzzler: you state that Form 632 (pasted to your A-250) is dated 11/20/12.? I have Form 632 pasted to an A-80 and it has NO DATE ON IT.? What do you suppose that means?? Those fellows at West Orange didn't make this easy for us, did they? George Paul AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. From drgr...@msn.com Fri Jun 22 14:39:59 2007 From: drgr...@msn.com (gregory caringi) Date: Fri Jun 22 14:41:58 2007 Subject: [Phono-L] Victor P bracket Message-ID: bay101-f12d65c7d14b94deb2c895fa7...@phx.gbl A couple of years ago, I went through this same questioning process for my Victor R and got the same responses. Maybe my R was too far gone, but none of the suggestions really worked. I turned to Steve Farmer for help. Steve is a great guy and a true craftsman when it comes to restorations. Many of the finest Victor Edison machines with oxidized copper or bronze finishes were Farmerized. Check out: http://mysite.verizon.net/vze8loo1/index.html If a simple cleaning is not going to work, then consider contacting Steve Farmer. He is the best. I'm not sure if this is his current e-mail address. farmeriz...@msn.com Best of luck with the project. Greg Caringi From: Ron L lhera...@bu.edu Reply-To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org To: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Victor P bracket Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 15:09:06 -0400 My cleaner of choice for shellac is mechanic's waterless hand cleaner, without pumice. It does not dull or soften the shellac but it does remove oils, greases and old wax. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Rich Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 2:54 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Victor P bracket The best bet is Murphy's Oil Soap. Mix with a little water and whip up a lather. It might dull the shellac and if it does paste wax will fix it. It will take off the oxidized oil, coal dust, wood ash, and general dirt. It requires patience. ANY product that is listed as either a polish or body scrub or cleaner is an ABRASIVE and will cut through the shellac like a knife. The chemical carriers in these products may also strip the shellac. The copper plate is very thin and that is what makes it fragile. Some of these oxidized fishes are coated with real violin varnish which is much tougher than plain shellac. The color of the final product was controlled by what was used to over coat it. On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 14:10:37 -0400, Steven Medved wrote: Hi Loran,Would a gently cleaner such as Maguires body scrub clean the crud off of the shellac? A lot of houses were heated with coal and or wood and this leaves things very dirty. Patina is good, dirt is irritating, but sometimes it is best to leave well enough alone.The oxidized finish is very delicate, when working with Edison oxidized reproducers I only remove dust with a soft tissue. I would think that the shellac could be removed and a new finish installed, but when dealing such an expensive item you would want an expert to do it.Steve Other than gently wiping with a soft (microfiber) cloth to knock the dust off, I'd leave well enough alone. I'm a believer that patina shows the piece has lived a nice, long life. Loran On Jun 21, 2007, at 9:49 AM, Dan Kj wrote: I knew someone who had the same finish on all the door hardware inhis house he removed every piece got them all clean again with somekind of industrial polishing compound. I couldn't tell if he wasdisappointed when I told him the pieces were SUPPOSED to have spots of different- colored metal. ack. - Original Message - From: David Dazer dda...@sbcglobal.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 9:10 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor P bracketI had good luck cleaning mine with steel wool and somewaterless hand cleaner that mechanics use. Go easy with it or you might end upstripping the whole thing off. When you see some of the copper coming back, quit.Dave phonofo...@aol.com wrote: I have an oxidized
[Phono-L] Dating pre-1915 A-series Edison Disc Phonographs
Andy, Yes, I think you're on the right track. The Form 632 on the A-80 is beneath the cabinet. George AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. From a...@popyrus.com Fri Jun 22 17:40:06 2007 From: a...@popyrus.com (Andrew Baron) Date: Fri Jun 22 17:41:44 2007 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison stop survey In-Reply-To: 200706221522.l5mfmbee021...@cybertechcomputers.biz References: 200706221522.l5mfmbee021...@cybertechcomputers.biz Message-ID: 461606d8-a22d-4439-a7c6-48ba7e4e7...@popyrus.com Thanks, Rich for sharing this. So at this point, we know that the early style of start / stop lever was carried at least through your serial number SM-3435, and discontinued by #SM-12033 or earlier. This goes for the model A-250. Others I expect would have this appearing in somewhat different serial number sets, but at this point, I have no feedback from anyone that their other model A series DD phonographs have this stop (though I expect that some would have it). Andy On Jun 22, 2007, at 3:43 PM, Rich wrote: OK, you will ove this one. The machine serial number plate is SM 3435 and the mecanism bedplate is 3435 A1 and the stop is identical to the one you have pictured. The case is oak. I can not get at the back of the machine without moving several others so I can not tell you what the label on the back door reads. I would mention this though. I have seen altogether too much evidence to show that Edison numbered the entire machine when it was assembled for sale and not when the individual parts were produced. I also have a B-250 that I will look at later this evening after I get everything off of the top so I can open it. On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 15:16:25 -0600, Andrew Baron wrote: The lever with the knob on it can be used to both release as well as engage the brake pad. The other lever that contacts the adjustable finger on the lift post is small and not meant to be touched by the user.
[Phono-L] Re:Book: A World of Antique Phonographs
Rob, Gee - it will be weird not to see you at Union, Rob! Hope everything is okay. The book should be coming in around the first of June - - I'll send it to you as soon as it arrives. Regards, George -Original Message- From: zonophone2...@aol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 5:24 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Re:Book: A World of Antique Phonographs hi george i am not going to union this year i paid for the book so when you get it just send it along hope all is well rob ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. From john9...@pacbell.net Mon Apr 30 20:20:08 2007 From: john9...@pacbell.net (john robles) Date: Mon Apr 30 20:20:44 2007 Subject: [Phono-L] Indian records wanted Message-ID: 46760.8464...@web83006.mail.mud.yahoo.com Hi I am looking for records pressed in India, notably of Gauhar Jan and Jankibai, as well as ragas, sarode, sitar and others. Acoustic and electrical are acceptable. I know its a shot in the dark, but ya never know! Thanks John Robles From john9...@pacbell.net Mon Apr 30 20:20:40 2007 From: john9...@pacbell.net (john robles) Date: Mon Apr 30 20:22:01 2007 Subject: [Phono-L] Re: Indian records wanted Message-ID: 838859.18587...@web83004.mail.mud.yahoo.com And no, they are NOT for playing on a Crapophone!! From esrobe...@hotmail.com Mon Apr 30 20:40:04 2007 From: esrobe...@hotmail.com (Robert Wright) Date: Mon Apr 30 20:40:48 2007 Subject: [Phono-L] Re: Indian records wanted References: 838859.18587...@web83004.mail.mud.yahoo.com Message-ID: bay123-dav119183189f6c45c962b0e9aa...@phx.gbl LOL!! Nice one! I have two late 40's Indian releases, both 10 white label (not DJ, just white labels), one on Columbia and one on HMV. I'll look for them tonight and you can see if the titles/artists are of interest to ya. - Original Message - From: john robles john9...@pacbell.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 10:20 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Re: Indian records wanted And no, they are NOT for playing on a Crapophone!! ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Technical data/Instruction Manual for Grafonola Grand
Hello, group! Some of you may know Dave Stout, a collector from Chula Vista, California. He just picked up a Grafonola Grand (the one shaped like a baby grand piano), and is looking for technical information or an instruction manual for it - a copy would be fine (I think). I couldn't help him, but promised to relay his request to you folks, so there it is. If anyone can help Dave, he can be reached at 166 Third Ave., #24, Chula Vista, CA 19104-1857, or (619) 498-0552. I'm sure he would appreciate any assistance. Regards to all - - George Paul AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. From msprin...@juno.com Thu Mar 22 15:04:21 2007 From: msprin...@juno.com (msprin...@juno.com) Date: Thu Mar 22 15:13:10 2007 Subject: [Phono-L] Searching for mp3s of The Big Broadcast Message-ID: 20070322.140446.14831.2250...@webmail38.nyc.untd.com Everyone - The person below contacted me to see if I had any downloads of The Big Broadcast. I don't, but said I'd ask around. If you do and would like to help him out, please contact him directly using the information below. -- Forwarded Message -- Nigel Barrett nigelinseychel...@gmail.com POSTAL ADDRESS BOX 321,THE SBC, HERMITAGE ,MAHE, THE SEYCHELLES REPUBLIC IT IS SIMPLY THE BIG BROADCAST RECORDINGS I WANT PRE-MARCH 2007. I CAN OFFER US DOLLARS IF REQUIRED BY CHEQUE.IN EXCHANGE I CAN OFFER; 39 SPIKE JONES CD'S 1947-49 COMPLETE SPOTLIGHT REVIEW SHOWS PLUS ONE JOE SYRACUSE LP FROM 1965 ON DISC 39 FILL UP.FAB SET. 2/ THE MARVELLOUS EDITED 1926-40 BBC MALCOLM LAYCOCK BIG BANDS BRITISH SHOWS SUNDAY NIGHTS.78 MINUTES A CD.I HAVE ABOUT 40 CD'S THERE AND THEY INCLUDE A LOT OF USA ARTISTS LIKE DANNY POLO,THE STARITA BROTHERS,CAROL GIBBONS, ROY FOX , JACK HARRIS ETC.,YOU GET THE DRIFT.MUCH RECOMMENDED. 3/ BRITISH 78'S DANCE BANDS 1920'S TO 30'S DIRECTLY OFF 78'S.AGAIN ,MANY USA ARTISTS FEATURED. ABOUT 40 CD'S THERE.REX,I VICTORY ,IMPERIAL ,DECCA ECLIPSE ETC. LABELS. 4/ SCOTS GAELIC 78'S -2 CD'S 5/ MASSIVE WORLD COLLECTION CD'S 1905-50'S 78 ERA POPULAR ,CUBA,BRAZIL,JAPAN ETC. 6/ MP3'S OF CALYPSO ,OLD CODGER ,EDISON FILE AND ANTIQUE PHONOGRAPH FROM WFMU 7/ THE DISMUKE TEXAS FILE -3 MP'S 1997 -2007 MATERIAL 8/ NICE FRENCH CHANSON COLLECTION FROM 1920 ON TO TODAY.100 CD'S. 9/ NICE CLASSICAL HISTORIC PRE-1960 RARITIES RECORDINGS COLLECTION.EG.BEECHAM 9/ REQUESTS FOR MATERIAL NEEDED WELCOME. I HAVE 10,000 MORE IN SCOTLAND.CAN ACCESS IT AT XMAS 2007 IF YOU BEAR WITH ME WHEN I AM ON HOLIDAY THERE ! BEST WISHES MERLE NIGEL BARRETT
[Phono-L] Reproduction Trademark Beliner
In the matter of the Taiwan Berliners, identification is made simple because there are numbers to look for. The spring case will be marked 34371 and the sound box will be 18425. These repro Berliners appeared in the spring of 1976 and originally sold for $425. Hope this helps, George Paul -Original Message- From: kiefa...@comteck.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 11:51 AM Subject: [Phono-L] Reproduction Trademark Beliner After reading a section in The Compleate Phonograph book it states that Taiwan made authentic repros of the trademark berliner. Reiss indicates that the only way to tell is by the screws and bolts which are metric. Is this the only way to tell? Are they that good of a repro that it could fool a collector, and finally how long ago were these made? I'm aware of the Crapaphones, but they are easy to identify. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. From klin...@modex.com Thu Feb 22 19:40:36 2007 From: klin...@modex.com (Bill Klinger) Date: Thu Feb 22 19:40:59 2007 Subject: [Phono-L] ARSC Annual Conference 2007 Message-ID: 019101c756fc$618dd1a0$0201a...@billqbszr49l7m The following message has been posted by the ARSC Outreach Committee. If you have any questions, please click on one of the links or the e-mail address below. ---2007 ANNUAL CONFERENCE--- You are invited to join friends and colleagues for the 41st annual conference of the Association for Recorded Sound Collections, in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, May 2-5. The event, hosted by the Ward Irish Music Archives, in conjunction with the Sanfilippo Victorian Palace, will take place at the Hilton Milwaukee City Center, 509 West Wisconsin Avenue. The lovingly restored Art Deco structure, completed in 1928, opened as the state's tallest and largest hotel. The Shops of Grand Avenue, the Historic Third Ward, the Water Street entertainment area, Pabst Theater, Milwaukee Public Museum, and Milwaukee Art Museum are just some of the nearby attractions. During the conference, the Hilton Milwaukee City Center is offering a special room rate of $119 per night, single or double. To reserve a room, visit: http://www.arsc-audio.org/hotel2007.html Click on the hotel link at the bottom of the page, and you will be transferred to the Hilton Web page for the ARSC Conference. If you have questions about or problems with your reservation, call the hotel directly at 414-271-7250. To receive the special rate, rooms must be reserved no later than April 14. This year, full conference and Saturday single-day registrations include round-trip transportation, lunch, ARSC Awards Banquet, and organ concert at the Victorian Palace, Barrington, Illinois. Read more about the Victorian Palace in the Tours section of this announcement. Register early and save! Full conference registration postmarked by April 9 is $155 for ARSC members, $180 for non-members, and $115 for student members. After that date, registration is $180 for ARSC members, $205 for non-members, and $140 for student members. Single-day registration fees are as follows: Thursday and/or Friday, $35 per day members, $45 per day non-members, $25 per day student members. Saturday is $90 members, $105 non-members, $80 student members. After April 9, Thursday and/or Friday, $45 per day members, $55 per day non-members, $30 per day student members. Saturday is $115 members, $140 non-members, $105 student members. For the complete preliminary program, registration form, and further details about the conference, visit: http://www.arsc-audio.org/conference2007.html For further information (including exhibitor and sponsorship opportunities), contact Kurt Nauck, Conference Manager, at na...@78rpm.com or 281-288-7826. CONFERENCE PROGRAM ARSC is dedicated to the preservation and study of sound recordings -- in all genres of music and speech, in all formats, and from all periods. Reflecting this broad mission, the upcoming conference offers a diverse array of talks and sessions that will appeal to both collectors and professionals. Scheduled talks include: -- Milwaukee's Jack Teter: Get Hep and Get Happy (Cary Ginell) -- Pre-History of the NBC Chimes (Mike Biel) -- Irish Americans in the Acoustic Era (Mick Moloney) -- The Golden Age of Irish Music Recording (Harry Bradshaw) -- Copyright Committee Report on Recent Activities and Developments -- Nathaniel Shilkret: A Most Prolific and Diverse Creator of Recorded Sound (Niel Shell) -- Arthur Pryor: A Study in Versatility (David Sager) -- 1957: An Audio Necrology of the Varied and Important Musical Figures Lost During That Year (Dennis D. Rooney) -- The Potential for
[Phono-L] victor crate on ebay
Suellen: It's an American crate - the type used for a Victrola IV. George Paul Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. From cdra...@ipa.net Tue Jan 30 07:37:36 2007 From: cdra...@ipa.net (cdra...@ipa.net) Date: Tue Jan 30 07:59:32 2007 Subject: [Phono-L] Thanks! And another? Message-ID: 410-220071230153736...@ipa.net I want to think all the helpful people who went to the trouble to answer my phonograph questions, and also the ones who helped me locate and purchase my Opera and VI. However, I would like to purchase a nice Triumph with a B reproducer and cygnet horn. What would be a fair price for this setup, also just the Triumph without the horn? Charles cdra...@ipa.net EarthLink Revolves Around You. From lo...@oldcrank.com Tue Jan 30 08:21:30 2007 From: lo...@oldcrank.com (Loran Hughes) Date: Tue Jan 30 08:28:41 2007 Subject: [Phono-L] List Status Message-ID: be400fa1-60c0-44e6-a211-da771a32d...@oldcrank.com Folks, I attempted a software upgrade on the server Sunday afternoon that, to say the least, did not work out well. I've reverted to a system backup made Saturday morning. If you made a posting to this list during the Saturday - Monday timeframe, you won't be able to find it in the archives. Otherwise, they should have gone out to everyone OK there is no need to resend your posts. Loran From cen...@comcast.net Tue Jan 30 12:26:21 2007 From: cen...@comcast.net (Albert) Date: Tue Jan 30 12:33:03 2007 Subject: [Phono-L] List Status References: be400fa1-60c0-44e6-a211-da771a32d...@oldcrank.com Message-ID: 000601c744ac$e7a7b560$c801a...@albert I am in need of a nice Victor Black and brass horn, size appropriate for a Victor 3. Appreciate the referral. Al Menashe in Portland. - Original Message - From: Loran Hughes lo...@oldcrank.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 8:21 AM Subject: [Phono-L] List Status Folks, I attempted a software upgrade on the server Sunday afternoon that, to say the least, did not work out well. I've reverted to a system backup made Saturday morning. If you made a posting to this list during the Saturday - Monday timeframe, you won't be able to find it in the archives. Otherwise, they should have gone out to everyone OK there is no need to resend your posts. Loran ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Protective Coatings on Brass Horns
My friend George Glastris's comments are well put. I have several pieces of lacquered brass such as lenses for moving picture machines that I would never consider stripping and polishing. You all know the look George is talking about in such instances: a consistant finish but with a warm amber hue. Optical and scientific instruments like those should not be messed with unless absolutely necessary. I wonder if phonograph horns were sealed with the same quality lacquer, or if their size, exposure to rapid changes in temperature, and/or general lack of protection contributed to the generally poor condition of original finishes on brass horns. I would take issue with only one of George Glastris's comments - that of irreplacable patina. Those of us with brass horns that have been polished but NOT lacquered can attest that the so-called patina will appear in all its glory over the course of 5 or 6 years. I must admit that I don't mind the slightly darkened appearance of those horns. But they still get polished every so often... George Paul Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. From glast...@edisongallery.com Sat Jan 13 11:29:09 2007 From: glast...@edisongallery.com (George Glastris) Date: Sat Jan 13 11:29:16 2007 Subject: [Phono-L] Protective Coatings on Brass Horns References: 8c9054a7b05e5da-474-5...@webmail-ma15.sysops.aol.com172001c7373c$a9f2b710$8248a...@none05vofc1vwp 8c9055c0a0a9682-1454-6...@webmail-ma14.sysops.aol.com Message-ID: 174301c73749$19af07f0$8248a...@none05vofc1vwp In deference to my dear friend George Paul, let me clarify what I meant regarding polishing horns. IF the original lacquer is already gone and if it is an obviously blackened and grungy finish then by all means polish away and make it shine again. My broad definition of original patina is of course subjective but I basically mean if it is reasonable and of a mellow hue, not a filthy barn find. I'm not recommending keeping the original air in the tires of a Model T Ford! Oh yeah, one reason for the possible fine finish on many scientific instruments is due to the fact that they are often kept in their original cases which keeps the air flow very low. - Original Message - From: gpaul2...@aol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Protective Coatings on Brass Horns My friend George Glastris's comments are well put. I have several pieces of lacquered brass such as lenses for moving picture machines that I would never consider stripping and polishing. You all know the look George is talking about in such instances: a consistant finish but with a warm amber hue. Optical and scientific instruments like those should not be messed with unless absolutely necessary. I wonder if phonograph horns were sealed with the same quality lacquer, or if their size, exposure to rapid changes in temperature, and/or general lack of protection contributed to the generally poor condition of original finishes on brass horns. I would take issue with only one of George Glastris's comments - that of irreplacable patina. Those of us with brass horns that have been polished but NOT lacquered can attest that the so-called patina will appear in all its glory over the course of 5 or 6 years. I must admit that I don't mind the slightly darkened appearance of those horns. But they still get polished every so often... George Paul Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.10/624 - Release Date: 1/12/2007
[Phono-L] Dave Hietz
Dave was truly a gentleman, and a decent human being. During a two-day photo shoot for our books, Dave not only opened every drawer and cabinet we wanted to investigate, but schlepped machines shoulder-to-shoulder with us. We turned his beautiful home and barn upside-down, but he never lost his good cheer. (Well, after an hour or two of Fabrizio's singing, he exclaimed, Mother of God! Who could blame him?) After we put everything back in order, Dave and Nina took us out for a wonderful dinner - and I'm sure he had seen enough of us that day! I sincerely regret Dave's passing, but I'm thankful for having known him. God bless him. George Paul
[Phono-L] Columbia Multiplex Grand
The Columbia Multiplex Grand did indeed exist - and one of the two known examples built may someday miraculously show up. We illustrated the only known piece from a Multiplex Grand in our first book (The Talking Machine Compendium), and the upcoming second edition will include the same photograph of Allen Koenigsberg's surviving reproducer carriage w/three reproducers. As stated in our book, the Multiplex Grand was exhibited at the Paris Exposition in 1900, and one was purchased by the Shah of Persia. A second exhibition of the Multiplex Grand took place during the 1904 St. Louis World's Fair. In our last book (Phonographica), a 9 3/4 x 14 circular featuring the Multiplex Grand is shown on page 52. The illustrated flyer offers a lot of information on this fascinating Graphophone, including its ability to not only play three different tracks separately (stereo), but to also play a ten-minute recording by employing only one of its three reproducers and utilizing the entire nine-inch length of the 5 cylinder! If I could make a wish and discover any antique phonograph tomorrow in a local shop, the Multiplex Grand would be my choice. That includes the three 56 horns and special stand, of course! A Happy New Year to all - George Paul
[Phono-L] Re:Edison Diamond Disc A/B 80
A couple of days ago, in answering a query about the Claymont show, I mentioned that a Diamond Disc A-80 with a metal grille turned up there. After perusing George Frow's Edison Diamond Disc Phonographs for 22 years, the photo on page 42 finally jumped out at me. It shows an A - or B-80 (Frow didn't specify) with a metal grille. This begs research, and I'm asking for your help. I'll be pleased to share the results with the group as well, if there's sufficient response to draw any conclusions. Off list (so as not to drive the disinterested out of their minds), I'd appreciate hearing from you Phono-L folks with A-80s or B-80s in your collections. If you own one of these models, PLEASE email with the model number (A - or B-80), its serial number, and the type of grille (wooden or metal). I'd like to learn where the serial numbers switched from the A-80 to the B-80, and I'd especially like to know if those metal grilles are found on both models. Even if we determine only the approximate serial number where the A production ended and the B production began, we'll be able to gauge whether our own examples are early/mid/late production. Even that much would be helpful. Thanks very much! George Paul gpaul2...@aol.com From ryansrecords1 Wed Apr 21 00:31:48 2004 From: ryansrecords1 (Ryan Barna) Date: Sun Dec 24 13:10:39 2006 Subject: [Phono-L] FS--Santa Hides in Phonograph Message-ID: bay13-f57x25olqwytm0...@hotmail.com I have an extra copy of a picture and verse card of Santa Claus Hides in the Phonograph, originally part of the Little Tots Nursery Tunes set of The Christmas Book (#5). The card has a nice illustration by Maud Trube of Santa with his bag of toys coming out of a Victrola with children gathered around it. On the back are the words to the poem. There's a small 0.6 inch tear on the top towards the right hand corner with only a few traces of wear that doesn't distract very much. Overall, a very good condition card and a great piece to display with your collection (or maybe an interesting Christmas present). If this were a record I'd grade it a V++ (conservatively). You can see a picture of it right here: http://www.pixhost.com/pixr/revlon1/santa.jpg Note: I placed the paperclip there for security reasons and I'm not using it to hide any defects. My description is absolutely guaranteed or else a full refund. I don't feel like ebaying it, so I thought I'd offer it to the list. I'd like $8 for it plus $2 for First Class SH in the U.S. First one to contact me off list gets it. -Ryan ryansrecor...@hotmail.com _ Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar – FREE! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/
[Phono-L] Looking for Record Cleaning suggestions
David: I don't do vinyl, so I'll limit my comments to 78s. There are various expensive and/or high-tech, and no doubt several secret methods out there for cleaning 78s. There might even be the RIGHT WAY, espoused with religious zeal by some. I keep coming back to a weak mixture of grease-cutting dish detergent and lukewarm water. Prepare a basin with these two ingredients - the depth no more than 4 or 5 inches - and get your tap water running slowly at the same temperature as the basin water. Place your dirty record edgewise in the basin, being sure that the soapy water does not come up to the level of the paper label (thus the 4-5 inch depth). Slowly rotate the record, while gently brushing back forth in the direction of the grooves with a soft toothbrush or similar tool. Repeat on opposite side, if appropriate. Don't worry if a little water runs over the label. When the recorded areas have been soaked/brushed, go over entire surface - including label - with a clean sponge or rag soaked in the dishwater and immediately rinse with running water. Put in a dish drainer or wire record holder to drip a few minutes, then gently dry with a clean, soft towel. Allow to air dry for an hour or so, depending on humidity. Just be certain the record is dry before putting it in a sleeve or cabinet. It's not fancy, but it does the job - and I've never had a bad experience with this method. Hope this is helpful, and have fun - George Paul From Gpaul2000 Mon Apr 26 15:38:47 2004 From: Gpaul2000 (gpaul2...@aol.com) Date: Sun Dec 24 13:10:39 2006 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison A/B-80 Survey Results Message-ID: 145.27f5649d.2dbec...@aol.com It's been a week or so, and I've heard from exactly TWO people about their Diamond Disc A-80 and B-80 machines. They can't be THAT rare! Just in case you missed it, I'm trying to compile some information on these interesting machines to be shared with the list. If you own (or have access to) an Edison Diamond Disc Phonograph A-80 or B-80, please send me its model number, serial number, and type of grille (wooden or metal). I'll share results - regardless of how little - in a week or so. Thanks, George Paul From tvenetis Tue Apr 27 13:22:22 2004 From: tvenetis (Tim) Date: Sun Dec 24 13:10:39 2006 Subject: [Phono-L] main spring question Message-ID: 001601c42c84$8892be00$ef9a5...@toshibauser I was wondering on a gem what is the best way to wind up a main spring so I can put the shaft in the motor thanks From maxbud12 Tue Apr 27 18:09:31 2004 From: maxbud12 (Bruce Mercer) Date: Sun Dec 24 13:10:39 2006 Subject: [Phono-L] Record Cleaning References: e1bivwg-0005fr...@t2.cwihosting.com Message-ID: 001401c42cac$bd5cf740$52e2f...@sigecom.net If you should collect Edison Diamond discs, 'never' use water to clean them. Use only denatured alcohol. They have a laminated core and the water will cause them to swell. The factory specifically stated to use alcohol to clean the discs. Today, most OTC alcohol has some amount of water in it. Denatured alcohol on a piece of plush velvet using paper towels in between for very dirty discs and finish off with a dry piece of plush velvet will make them sparkle. I would also be afraid to get any laminated record too wet. I'm thinking of Columbia herebut there were others. They were laminated on paper from the mid twenties, or possibly earlier.maybe somebody else knows when they started. I definitely would not submerge them though. Damp cloth and dry immediately. YMMV Bruce
[Phono-L] Edison record
Mike: I recently heard this cylinder played in a private collection. It is indeed 150tpi, and looks like a normal Blue Amberol. Arrangements have been made to record this cylinder, and it will be among several interesting recordings on a CD that Tim Fabrizio and I plan to include in an upcoming book. It's a terrific recording of Edison pitching the Ediphone. I'm at a loss as to why it has been virtually unknown all these years. George Paul From vtm12 Sun Oct 12 16:41:00 2003 From: vtm12 (Vince Capobianco) Date: Sun Dec 24 13:10:22 2006 Subject: [Phono-L] Victor A Reproducer References: 97c7ef59a387d6118a8a000802564c4603169...@hqgtnexch1.hr.doe.gov Message-ID: 002201c39109$7e147930$17925...@cn487534a Hello All, I am in need of a reproducer that would be correct for a Victor A. I have been told a Victor Concert long throat would work. What do Victor Concert's go for $$$wise and does anyone have one for sale. Also, what other reprducers would be correct and does anyone have one? Thanks, Vince
[Phono-L] Re: CAPS Journal
Group: I just have to say something about the California Antique Phonograph Society Journal. The latest issue arrived here yesterday, and, as usual, it's terrific. Editor Rene Rondeau does a superb job of compiling articles and photos into a Jounal of substance. Rene won't toot the Journal's horn, but - with 5 issues now out there - I must share this with you all. There are beautiful photographs and SUBSTANTIVE INFORMATION! If you haven't subscribed to this Journal, you're really missing something. For example, in the current issue, Robert Baumbach's column reveals an Orthophonic Victrola recall of 1928. It turns out that many new Orthophonics were causing premature record wear, and in 1928, Victor offered modified Sound Box Crooks (sometimes called a U-tube) to realign the sound boxes. Has YOUR Orthophonic been fixed? Bob's article includes the original Service Notes so you can take measurements and find out. I checked my two, and learned that a nice Credenza is waiting to eat my records! I suspect that this problem is widespread - and largely undetected. Other articles include Allen Koenigsberg's illustrated discussion of the first coin-operated Berliner Gramophone, a good writeup on Al Jolson and Irving Kaufman by Charles Marowitz, a nicely illustrated discussion by Scott Malawski of a Thomas Macdonald patent - and the prototype model from the Columbia archives, an early Edison Standard coin-op that pre-dates the Excelsior, an illustrated history and appreciation of the Columbia Eagle by George somebody, and a nice tribute to Dave Heitz with photos of his magnificant collection. As far as I'm concerned, the Orthophonic recall article is worth the price of annual subscription ($22) in the records it will save! I can't say enough about this new Journal. For my money, it's the finest publication in our hobby. Contributing writers include Lynn Andersen, Julien Anton, Robert Baumbach (regular column), Lynn Bilton, Tim Fabrizio, Robert Feinstein, Larry Karp, Allen Koenigsberg (regular contributor), Scott Malawski, Charles Marowitz, George Paul (regular column), Ray Phillips, Stephan Puille, Eric Reiss, and Mike Tucker. Rene Rondeau also writes when his editing duties allow. The latest issue has 39 illustrations - some in full color. To subscribe and become a member of the California Antique Phonograph Society (and I highly recommend it!), send your name, address, phone number(s), email/website and $22 ($32 outside North America) to CAPS, PO Box 169, Victorville, CA 92393. Rene can be consulted about this at antiqueph...@aol.com. Sorry for the long post, but this is something genuinely beneficial to our hobby. Cheers - George Paul
[Phono-L] Re: Edison Phono on Antique Road Show this week
I wasn't going to jump into this one, but decided to share an interesting (at least I thought it was interesting!) tidbit about Roadshow. A friend who is quite knowledgeable of British militaria saw an 18th century dragoon helmet being examined on the show. My friend took immediate notice because of the rarity of this helmet, and its excellent condition. In fact, there's only one known! My friend contacted HIS friend - the owner of the helmet - and yes indeed... The Road Show actually RENTED the helmet from the collector, and hired an actor to present it on camera as an attic find. That's showmanship, folks! I have less of a problem with the phoney provenance of an item than I do having an unqualified person discuss/appraise it. George Paul
[Phono-L] Nipper Picture - Question
I must state up front that Mis Master's Voice paintings are not my forte. That said, I agree that this example doesn't look like a Barraud work to me. I'm sure someone else could offer a more erudite view! George Paul
[Phono-L] The rip-off age?
I have two independent mechanics and a local muffler chain shop nearby that I've found helpful to play off each other. Whenever I need a big ticket repair (shocks/struts, alternator, ball joints, etc.), I'll get estimates from at least two of them. If I have a preference for who does the work (one of the independents is quite good, but he will occasionally inflate his estimate), I'll just show my preferred guy the other estimate and tell him that I'd like to give him my business - and how can we make that happen? It's been over a year since the various estimates have been more than about 20 dollars apart. I'd like to think that they don't mess around with me anymore (but they've probably banded together and are sticking it to me!). George Paul
[Phono-L] Book Delay Announcement
Hi list - I know that many of you have ordered our upcoming book, The Talking Machine Compendium, Second Edition from either Tim or myself. I'll bet some of you are watching the mailbox, as this is the traditional time we get them and start mailing them out. Last week, Schiffer Publishing notified us that, due to production delays on THEIR end, the new book won't be available until JUNE. That's right - June. Believe me, Tim and I aren't happy about this, but there's nothing we can do about it. In the meantime, we want our customers to BE ASSURED that they will receive their books just as soon as they are available. We received the initial layouts today, and the book looks beautiful. It's going to be worth the wait. We appreciate your understanding and patience. Thanks, George Paul
[Phono-L] Sad News
Loran - I'm so sorry to hear about Janet. I think I speak for all of us in wishing that our sharing your grief might lighten your load a little. You, David, and your family will be in our prayers. Bless you all - - George Paul
[Phono-L] Star Phonographs
Hi, group - - I'm doing some research on Hawthorne Sheble Star talking machines. There don't seem to be very many of them around, so I'm asking those who own one (or more) if they'd please be willing to let me know the model number (at upper right on the Star ID plate) and serial number (middle bottom of ID plate). I'm hoping to put whatever I learn into print before too long, with your help. Thanks, and a very Merry Christmas to all of you - - George Paul gpaul2...@aol.com
[Phono-L] Re: Phono Key Chart Update - new casting? -
John: You may want to check your lock code again. My lyre-grille 1A has lock code 6MAC10. Are you sure there's not a zero at the end of yours? I'd be interested in a reproduction key, if any are ever made. George Paul
[Phono-L] Re: Phono Key Chart Update - new casting? -
John: My lyre grill 1A is No.2876. George Paul
[Phono-L] Rigid Arm Victor
Rob: Yes, Victor rigid-arms have been reproduced - some beautifully. Be careful! George Paul
[Phono-L] Victrola IV reproducer question
The O soundbox is correct for the early Victrola IV (as is the Exhibition). She show an early IV with the O soundbox in our first book, as well as the soon-to-be-published Talking Machine Compendium, Second, Revised Edition. Personally, I think the O soundbox is cooler! George Paul
[Phono-L] Afloat On A Five Dollar Note
Greg: Your cylinder (Afloat On A Five-Dollar Note) was released in August, 1906 - about the time that Edison was forbidden to use his U.S. patent No.414,761 of 1889, which specified internally moulded spiral ribs for cylinder records. James Andem, who had managed the Ohio Phonograph Company as a subsidiary of the North American Phonograph Comapny, had been assailing Edison in the courts since the late 1890s (with help from the Graphophone Company). By 1906, when your cylinder was issued, Edison had been enjoined from using the spiral ribs. However, the life of the patent was 17 years, so by 1907, Edison cylinders were once again featuring the familiar ribs inside. These smooth Edison cylinders turn up pretty regularly because Edison was doing a brisk business at the time, but they're interesting evidence of a brief period when Edison's former associate was causing him various headaches. The appearance of the Model C series of Edison Phonographs, copper diaphragms, and the disappearance of endgates were related results of Andem's legal barrage against Edison. Cheers, George Paul From lherault Thu Jul 29 08:28:29 2004 From: lherault (Ron L'Herault) Date: Sun Dec 24 13:10:48 2006 Subject: [Phono-L] Toronto Visit? In-Reply-To: d9b6f1f7-df3b-11d8-ad19-000d932ae...@shaw.ca Message-ID: nhbblpolelmeebaifohfmenhelaa.lhera...@bu.edu Well, if you like traditional jazz, /New Orleans style jazz, there are a few really good bands in the Toronto area. If memory serves, C'est What is one venue. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.com [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.com]on Behalf Of Don Mayer Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 3:42 PM To: phon...@oldcrank.com Subject: [Phono-L] Toronto Visit? Hello everyone, I live in Victoria, B.C. and will be travelling to Toronto for a couple of weeks. While most of my stay there will be spent with family and friends, I have some other days available for visiting, should opportunities arise. The dates that are open for this are August 4 (Wed), 10 and 11. I have gathered together quite a few wind-up phonographs over the years and have enjoyed repairing them and those of others. If anyone has similar interests and would enjoy having a west-coaster join them for a visit, please drop me a line off-list. Cheers, Don Mayer P.S. It might be worth a mention that I would be interested in a straight horn for an Idelia, just in case there is one out there. ___ Phono-l mailing list phon...@oldcrank.com http://mail.oldcrank.com/mailman/listinfo/phono-l_oldcrank.com
[Phono-L] Edison Business Phonos
More information on the Business Phonographs can be found in Frow's 1994 Edison Cylinder Phonograph Companion beginning on page 326. These machines were first described in the April and May 1903 issues of the Edison Phonograph Monthly, and referred to as Commercial Phonographs. I'm puzzled by the reference to a 2-spring motor, as mine (No.3526) has a Home motor in a special frame. It's not stamped A or B, and retains the endgate and the May 22. 1906 patent date. George Paul
[Phono-L] Phono-L and Censorship
Loran: I concur with Art's assessment of the situation. To paraphrase Barnum, you can't please all the people all the time, especially the vagaries of human psyche. You're doing just fine -- carry on, my friend. George Paul
[Phono-L] Some 'interesting' Victor 10 inch 78's?
Victor's 7 double-sided A Record for the Children was supplied in 1900-1901 with the Johnson/Victor Toy. In 1904 Columbia released a few 10 double-sided discs, but quickly reverted to the single-sided format. Then, as stated here on the list, Columbia began monthly releases of double-sided discs in 1908, with Victor grudgingly following suit. George Paul
[Phono-L] Edison 50741 test pressing
Steve: Yes, all 5 of the unground edge discs here have etched labels of the two later patterns, and none of them have the same selection on both sides. Judging the various sides is naturally subjective - after all, a particular side might simply be less worn than its inverse. But it seems to me that a couple of the discs have smoother surfaces on one side and slightly less surface noise, as though the finish is thicker. According to Ray Wile's Edison Disc Recordings, at least two of these discs were used for Tone Test demonstrations (I haven't checked the other three). George Paul
[Phono-L] phone number needed
Bob: Allen's phone number was (718) 941-6835, but with all the area code changes, the first three digits may be wrong now. Have Gregg give it a try and see... George Paul
[Phono-L] Early Home configurations
Thanks, David for your kind words about the article I wrote on the early Home Phonographs in the Sound Box. From Peter's question, it seems as though the word still isn't out on that publication. People collect antique phonographs for a variety of reasons, but if you're among those who are interested in learning more about them, you really owe it to yourself to subscribe. It is absolutely THE BEST publication on antique phonographs out there. I've learned a lot from reading it, and Rene Rondeau does a great job as Editor. As as for Tim's Compendium, I know I shouldn't let this nettle me, but we're CO-AUTHORS. To make matters worse, I was the one who shot Bill Kocher's Home and wrote the captions for it! Sorry - - I suppose I should be used to it by now...! Once again - if you like solid information about antique phonographs plus pretty pictures of them, get on the CAPS website and subscribe to the Sound Box. It'll do you good! Best wishes to all, George Paul
[Phono-L] Early Home configurations
In a message dated 10/6/2006 3:39:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, pjfra...@alamedanet.net writes: he never sings awful old 60s pop songs, either, honest, i swear! Oh my - I BEG TO DIFFER!!! I had a full head of hair when we started writing these books...! George Paul
[Phono-L] Video of phono collections
No, we never shot video while working on the books -- six or eight hours with a 35mm SLR was our limit! You're talking about two different knowledge bases. Our focus (pardon the pun) was to preserve a historical record, and once between covers in the hands of collectors, that knowledge would presumably be saved forever. A video of various collections would not necessarily serve historical purposes, but rather a social function - as though the collector had invited you in for a visit. Unfortunately, such a production would have a relatively short shelf life, as collections are constantly evolving. I, for one, would much prefer to have visitors -- which means that if any of you are ever in the western New York State area, be sure to call! Best to all, George Paul
[Phono-L] Which one? And why?
Jerry: I'd definitely go for the upside-down decal. This is only the second instance of the anomoly I'm aware of. (The Vernis-Martin example is in our upcoming book, A World of Antique Phonographs.) I have a golden oak XVI myself, but I'd trade it in a heartbeat for one with an upside-down decal. What gets me is that apparently neither the dealer nor the customer had a problem with paying $200 for a Victrola (or $400 in the instance of the Vernis-Martin) with its decal inverted! It seems as though the lid could have been returned to Camden for replacement/repair As far as the oak example is concerned, a good refinisher (and I'll bet Victor had plenty of them) could have reworked only the single affected interior panel. Even a complete lid refinish wouldn't have been a big deal. It's quite a mystery... George Paul
[Phono-L] Early Edison Home Phonos
Hi, group - - Rene Rondeau and I were comparing notes on early Homes, and if we can pull together some additional information we might have enough for an article in The Sound Box. In general, we're looking at 5 characteristics: 1) Open (skeletal) or closed top casting 2) Weighted or non-weighted half-nut 3) Presence or absence of lift lever support in front of top casting 4) Brass or nickeled mandrel (2/4 min attachment should be noted) 5) Serial number We're aware that variations within Edison models do not necessarily follow strict serial sequence. For instance, Home No. 7011 was observed to have a brass mandrel, yet Home No.4400 has what appears to be its original nickeled mandrel. The weighted half-nut, open frame, and cast lift lever support are seen inconsistently as well, but by collating the presence and absence of these features with Home monthly production figures, we hope to be able to date when these features were dropped to within a month or two. Success will largely depend upon the help we get from collectors willing to share information with us. If you own an Edison Home with a serial number of 10,000 or below, PLEASE take a moment to jot down its 5 characteristics as outlined above, and send me an email off list at gpaul2...@aol.com. I'll be happy to include your name in the acknowledgments unless you prefer anonymity. Thanks in advance - - George Paul
[Phono-L] Early Edison Home Phonos
Thanks, Rob - looking forward to hearing from you! Best, George
[Phono-L] Puck Parts Needed/Edison Home Research
Hi, group - I want to thank everyone who helped with the Edison Home survey I sent out a few weeks ago. Several of you even included additional information such as indented mandrels, type of speaker clips, and number of lines beneath the D on the cover decal. Thanks again! I'm in the process of writing the article which, along with photographs, will appear in the September issue of The Sound Box. Charley Hummel was kind enough to supply me with monthly production figures which I will interpolate, and which should allow us all to date our machines to month and year through 1899. Speaking of Charley, he has acquired the base of a Lorelei Puck -- that's the one with a girl sitting on rocks playing a lute. Charley needs the entire upper sound path: reproducer, tone arm, elbow, and horn for this machine. Can anyone help him out? Thanks again to all who helped - and for those you didn't, it's not too late! Best to all - George Paul
[Phono-L] Followup Question on Early Edison Homes
Hi, group - Just wondering if there's anyone out there who owns a Home numbered LOWER than #8621 with a NICKELED mandrel? Also wondering if anyone owns a Home numbered HIGHER than #7420 with a BRASS mandrel? Many thanks - George Paul
[Phono-L] What is the Strange Victor Upright on Ebay# 6594621420
In a message dated 1/15/2006 2:28:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, aph4...@aol.com writes: With all this talk about what is real and what is not, you might want to look at page 52 in Fabrizio an Paul's Phonographs with Flair. There is a Craftsman machine and case which is very similar to the machine which was offered on eBay. It is listed as being VR or very rare. Not even a brand name machine! So it is all in the eye of the beholder as to what one considers desireable. ---Art Heller Art hits the nail out of the ballpark. One man's junk would smell as sweet... There are Class M machines out there in custom cabinets that no one would impugn, as long as they are contemporaneous. On page 139 of Phonographica we showed several illustrated cards from a professional designer whose specialty was modifying phonograph cabinets into custom-decorated pieces -- but contemporaneously. In the last issue of The Sound Box, I shared a one-off imitation of a Herzog Cylophone, which, although lacking the quality of the original, is at least...yes...contemporaneous. Whether factory or cutom one-off, I believe the key question is age. Such custom work can be quite interesting, but always in the back of our minds is the question, Was the guy watching TV when he made this? I agree with others that I'd be reluctant to purchase anything like this without examining it in person. George Paul
[Phono-L] Converting a DD phono to Long Play
Keep your eyes open for Edison DD phonos at local auctions, and pay particular attention to ratty Edison consoles. If you can find a 1-C, 2-C, 3-C, or 4-C, it will be factory equipped with LP equipment. I've found 2 of them this way - one for $5.00 (and that included both reproducers); the other for $90.00 (including both reproducers and a box of records including 9 LPs). They didn't appeal to the crowd - let's face it, they're not Edison's best-looking machines. You'll be the only one who knows what it is. The cabinet of one was in wretched condition, so I removed the LP assembly and installed it into a C-250. I found the conversion to be quick and easy, but I agree with the posting describing the inherent drawbacks of the records. Stylus condition is critical, and so is hingeblock lubrication. Good luck!
[Phono-L] Cabinet That Matches question
If the dimensions to cite are outside measurements, I'd presume that your cabinet was designed for a Victor III. Photographs of various styles of the Cabinet That Matches (and some related printed materials) can be found in Antique Phonograph Accessories Contraptions (Figures 4-53, 4-54, 4-64, 4-77), Phonographica (Figure 2-92), and Antique Phonograph Gadgets, Gizmos, Gimmicks (Figures 4-41, 4-42, 4-43). That Master Index certainly does come in handy, if I DO say so myself! Best to all - George Paul
[Phono-L] Is this what I think it is?
Randy: There were a couple of manufacturers of sectional record cabinets like the one on eBay. The Ogden Sectional Cabinet Company of Lynchburg VA. advertised a cabinet quite similar to the eBay example as early as April 1919. It was available in oak or birch mahogany (as seen on eBay), and later black, white, or gray enamel. There were special models for Pathe records as well as model number suffixes DD (guess what that means) and L.C. (probably Lateral Cut.). Hope this helps - George Paul
[Phono-L] glass phono horn
No, Corning Glass didn't make them. Paul Baker tried Corning, but the quote was exorbitant. He found a small group of craftsmen in Buffalo to made them until the little guild broke up, after completing 94 horns, as was mentioned earlier. George Paul
[Phono-L] You Guys Must Camp Online
Thanks group, for the rapid - and I mean rapid - response to my query about Dan Melvin's email address. I've contacted him, and soon all will be right with the world... I hope everyone is having weather as nice as what we're enjoying here in western New York State! Best to all, George Paul
[Phono-L] Proof that Edison had his doubts whether the cylinder record fa...
I'd say that his doubts were focused on disc records in this instance! I had no idea that Lloyd Kelley was modifying phonographs this way... George Paul
[Phono-L] Looking for Paul Horgan
Hello, group! I'm trying to contact a collector named Paul Horgan. I met him at Wayne, NJ a couple of years ago, and even shot an item we're using in our next book. But I have no address or phone number for him. I don't find his name in any of my directories. Can anyone help me find him? Thanks - - George Paul
[Phono-L] Paul Horgan
Bruce: Thanks - I finally found Paul through Mike Davecka. Hey - that sounds like the end of I Am The Walrus doesn't it? I finally found Paul... Something like that... George Paul, John, Ringo
[Phono-L] Question Tiger Stripe DD Reproducer?
If by tiger striped you mean oxidized bronze, that reproducer would have been intended for an A-150 or early production B-150. There should be a volume control built into the neck of the reproducer and the 4-screw stylus bar mount should be present. These reproducers don't show up too often, but I wouldn't quite call them rare. Best wishes -- George Paul
[Phono-L] Question Tiger Stripe DD Reproducer?
In a message dated 4/6/2006 1:19:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, steve_nor...@msn.com writes: Copper oxidation was available on certain A machines which had certain finishes. For example the A 250 had two colors of motor boards which were offered with certain woods and certain metal finishes. I don't quite follow you here, but it sounds like you've seen a Diamond Disc machine other than the A/B-150 with metal finished in oxidized bronze. (I'm not including the later oxidized finishes of the 1920s.) Is that what you meant? If so, is it certain that the metal parts were original to the cabinet? The original announcement and description of the Diamond Disc Phonographs in the October 1913 issue of the Edison Phonograph Monthly mentioned oxydized bronze metal parts for ONLY the A-150. Nevertheless, I'd love to see an A-250 (or more expensive model) with its original oxidized bronze parts! I always presumed that Frow's reference to oxidized bronze and the A-150 was in this context - - NOT as pertaining to the Art Models. The one or two oxidized bronze DD reproducers with cast mounts that I've seen were on early B-150 machines. I would consider those rare because of the apparently very short production of oxidized bronze parts on the B-150. Bill mentioned that he has never seen a DD reproducer with a built-in volume control. The shaft for this volume control takes the place of the positioning pin, has a knob mounted on the end, and rotates to manipulate a felt disc within the reproducer's throat. It works like a furnace flue. One of these (in gold finish) can be seen on page 86 of Antique Phonograph Gadgets, Gizmos, and Gimmicks. As for the oxidized finish on the A-150 (of which I'm quite fond as you can tell!), a close-up photo can be found on page 119 of Antique Phonograph Accessories Contraptions. I'm obliged to you, Steve, for your perspective on why the early built-in volume control was discontinued. It makes perfect sense. The felt disc on mine had been carefully removed by a previous owner, and I always wondered why! Regards, George Paul
[Phono-L] Zono record
Tyrone is right: the P indicated Parlor (Zonophone's 7 disc) while C denoted Concert (which was Zonophone's 9 disc). These names came into use after the demise of the National Gramophone Corporation in September 1901, and the reorganization of Universal into the Universal Talking Machine Manufacturing Company. This nomenclature was dropped by late 1904, when the Universal Zonophone Record paper label was replaced by the Zonophone Record label. Back in 1983, I wrote an article on American Zonophone Records which appeared in Vol. VII, No.6 of the Antique Phonograph Monthly. There are photos of various labels there. Additionally, color photos of Zonophone discs can be found on pages 131-133 of Michael Sherman's Collector's Guide To Victor Records. George Paul
[Phono-L] I am Looking for a Cylinder
Randy: If you have a copy of the Second Edition of our book, The Talking Machine Compendium, you'll find The Destruction of San Francisco on the audio CD inside the back cover. George Paul
[Phono-L] Barrister-type Crescent Phonograph
A Crescent phonograph such as you described in a barrister-type bookcase appears (in three views) in our upcoming book. This example belongs to Richard and Nancyann Brown. The machine is quite an oddity! George Paul
[Phono-L] Stories of Discovery
...the one find you never saw coming? I'll bet the challange for many of us on this list would be to narrow it down to one! For myself, I saw relatively few phono-finds coming -- it was mostly dumb luck, augmented a bit by persistance. Well, here's a good story with a bad ending... I once stopped by an out-of-the-way antique shop outside of Stroudsburg, PA. It was apparently the only house on the road, but there was no sign or any indication of shop being there. I asked an elderly man in the front yard if there was an antique shop nearby, as I had been told. He asked me what I was looking for, and I told him. The man waved me into his driveway, and a minute later he was leading me across the road, up an embankment into a wooded area. (I could hear the banjo playing from Deliverance.) The only structure was a chicken coop, and sure enough, he opened the unlocked door and led me inside. As my eyes adjusted to the relative darkness, I saw a familiar form looming - a mahogany Amberola IA with its four drawers full of records - and about 25% of them were Royal Purples. Everything was in good shape; thankfully, the chicken coop was weather-tight. That's the good part. The not-so-good part was that it was January 1973, I was only 19, and had never seen an Amberola IA before (my copy of the first Frow book would arrive a month later). In complete ignorance, I offered the gentleman $150, and he scratched his chin in thought. I suddenly realized that if he accepted my offer, I'd be obliged to drive back to the hotel where my parents and I were staying, and talk dad into a loan (NOT a guaranteed proposition by any means!). Plus, we would have to somehow fit the machine into dad's Buick - along with its 4 occupants. All this flashed through my mind as the old fellow cogitated. Finally - to my relief - he said that he'd need a little more. Like a dunce, I thanked him and drove away. A month later, I found the machine in the Frow book (remember the old blue softcover?), and I wrote the old man a letter (Yes - I had taken his address. I can claim THAT much foresight!). I offered the man $200 and was willing to drive the 4 hours back to Stroudsburg to retrieve the machine. I never heard back from him. Six years later, now married, I found myself driving by Stroudsburg with my lovely wife. I recounted the sad story to her, and she agreed to take the time to try finding the chicken coop of hallowed memory. Unbelievably, our van (undoubtedly a relative of Jerry's) turned this way and that, leading us straight to the place within 10 minutes! Even more surprising - there stood the elderly man in front of his house! I pulled in, got out and re-introduced myself. Sure, he remembered me, and added, I only sold that phonograph this spring to a dealer in Delaware Water Gap for $200 - and he turned around and got $400 for it! In reply to my slightly exasperated question of why he never contacted me after my letter, he stated, I didn't think you were serious. That was in August 1979. Since then, I've given no seller any reason to question my seriousness! I have many stories with happier endings, but I enjoy the cloud of pervasive ignorance that surrounds this one... George Paul Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
