[Phono-L] Alva on eBay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=6585961775 http://tinyurl.com/9k66c I have questions. Did the Alva always have a raised lower bedplate like the opera and idelia? Did the Alva ever have an ID plate that said Triumph? Were LEFT OVER MODEL B's WERE RECASED IN OAK CASES WITH NO LID OR THE EDISON BANNER TO BE SOLD BY OTHER PHONOGRAPH COMPANIES. I know Edison made model B's and D's at the same time Ref page 345 346 Frow book Chapter 29. This is why some home B's have decals like the home D. Edison never wasted, but I have never heard of this, and I notice the trademark is still on the upper and lower bedplate. Did Model B phonographs ever come from the Edison factory with the 2/4 upgrade installed? The new oak case seems a convenient way to get rid of the crank hole. I do not know the seller, nor am I making fun of him as he probably got the phono this way and is relaying what he was told. I will not write sellers as some are incredibly rude and I want to learn and share info, not argue. The last time I wrote an Edison console seller telling him what phono he had since he did not know he was horrible so I no longer waste my time. Steve
[Phono-L] Alva on eBay
Hi Steve, I noticed the oak case seemed to be new oak. The grain pattern is poorly matched and it just has a very new look to it. Dave Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com wrote: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=6585961775 http://tinyurl.com/9k66c I have questions. Did the Alva always have a raised lower bedplate like the opera and idelia? Did the Alva ever have an ID plate that said Triumph? Were LEFT OVER MODEL B's WERE RECASED IN OAK CASES WITH NO LID OR THE EDISON BANNER TO BE SOLD BY OTHER PHONOGRAPH COMPANIES. I know Edison made model B's and D's at the same time Ref page 345 346 Frow book Chapter 29. This is why some home B's have decals like the home D. Edison never wasted, but I have never heard of this, and I notice the trademark is still on the upper and lower bedplate. Did Model B phonographs ever come from the Edison factory with the 2/4 upgrade installed? The new oak case seems a convenient way to get rid of the crank hole. I do not know the seller, nor am I making fun of him as he probably got the phono this way and is relaying what he was told. I will not write sellers as some are incredibly rude and I want to learn and share info, not argue. The last time I wrote an Edison console seller telling him what phono he had since he did not know he was horrible so I no longer waste my time. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
[Phono-L] Alva on eBay
Steve, What you did is an old time furniture refinishing trick that is worth remembering. I assume that you let the old, dark, gunky shellac soak into the new wood and then removed it with the Formby's prior to staining? Dave Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com wrote: Hi Dave, I agree, when I had to replace the corner on my Triumph I found out what new oak looked like. I was amazed at what they call oak today. I finally found some quarter sawn oak. I stripped the case using Formby's Furniture Restorer as it removes shellac without stripping. I then soaked the new piece in the old shellac I removed and it colored the new wood so it now matches and you cannot tell it is a new piece. Steve Hi Steve, I noticed the oak case seemed to be new oak. The grain pattern is poorly matched and it just has a very new look to it. Dave ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
[Phono-L] Alva on eBay
The whole piece looks suspicious to me. Firstly, the case is all wrong. Second, he states Edison let other companies sell his machines. Hardly! Edison rarely had anything to do with other companies. He didn't produce premium machines as did Columbia and Victor. He protected his trade mark more than he did his wife's honour. Thirdly, where is the on/off switch Fourth, the binding posts look wrong. This is the problem with Ebay. It's the blind leading the blind. I don't mean to say the seller is being intentionally deceitful, and seems to have done some homework, but perhaps that homework was done to fit the machine, not the other way around. Regards to all, George Glastris - Original Message - From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: Phono-L@oldcrank.org; phonol...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 11:01 AM Subject: [Phono-L] Alva on eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=6585961775 http://tinyurl.com/9k66c I have questions. Did the Alva always have a raised lower bedplate like the opera and idelia? Did the Alva ever have an ID plate that said Triumph? Were LEFT OVER MODEL B's WERE RECASED IN OAK CASES WITH NO LID OR THE EDISON BANNER TO BE SOLD BY OTHER PHONOGRAPH COMPANIES. I know Edison made model B's and D's at the same time Ref page 345 346 Frow book Chapter 29. This is why some home B's have decals like the home D. Edison never wasted, but I have never heard of this, and I notice the trademark is still on the upper and lower bedplate. Did Model B phonographs ever come from the Edison factory with the 2/4 upgrade installed? The new oak case seems a convenient way to get rid of the crank hole. I do not know the seller, nor am I making fun of him as he probably got the phono this way and is relaying what he was told. I will not write sellers as some are incredibly rude and I want to learn and share info, not argue. The last time I wrote an Edison console seller telling him what phono he had since he did not know he was horrible so I no longer waste my time. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/192 - Release Date: 12/5/2005
[Phono-L] Alva on eBay
I couldn't agree more, George. Personally, I think the line about Edison making machines to let other companies sell is clear evidence of this guy's intent to deceive in a big way (no one who knows enough about Edison to distinguish between models that thoroughly would ever believe Edison sold generic machines for other companies to market). And frankly, as strange as it may sound (and as much as I hate generalizations), I've found that people who list in all caps are worthy of a bit of healthy suspicion and skepticism. Best to all, Robert - Original Message - From: George Glastris glast...@edisongallery.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Alva on eBay The whole piece looks suspicious to me. Firstly, the case is all wrong. Second, he states Edison let other companies sell his machines. Hardly! Edison rarely had anything to do with other companies. He didn't produce premium machines as did Columbia and Victor. He protected his trade mark more than he did his wife's honour. Thirdly, where is the on/off switch Fourth, the binding posts look wrong. This is the problem with Ebay. It's the blind leading the blind. I don't mean to say the seller is being intentionally deceitful, and seems to have done some homework, but perhaps that homework was done to fit the machine, not the other way around. Regards to all, George Glastris - Original Message - From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: Phono-L@oldcrank.org; phonol...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 11:01 AM Subject: [Phono-L] Alva on eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=6585961775 http://tinyurl.com/9k66c I have questions. Did the Alva always have a raised lower bedplate like the opera and idelia? Did the Alva ever have an ID plate that said Triumph? Were LEFT OVER MODEL B's WERE RECASED IN OAK CASES WITH NO LID OR THE EDISON BANNER TO BE SOLD BY OTHER PHONOGRAPH COMPANIES. I know Edison made model B's and D's at the same time Ref page 345 346 Frow book Chapter 29. This is why some home B's have decals like the home D. Edison never wasted, but I have never heard of this, and I notice the trademark is still on the upper and lower bedplate. Did Model B phonographs ever come from the Edison factory with the 2/4 upgrade installed? The new oak case seems a convenient way to get rid of the crank hole. I do not know the seller, nor am I making fun of him as he probably got the phono this way and is relaying what he was told. I will not write sellers as some are incredibly rude and I want to learn and share info, not argue. The last time I wrote an Edison console seller telling him what phono he had since he did not know he was horrible so I no longer waste my time. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/192 - Release Date: 12/5/2005 ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
[Phono-L] Alva on eBay
Lol, not at all, John, I meant the item description, not the title. ..unless you have something to confess. ;-) (I feel my chain getting yanked.) r. - Original Message - From: john robles john9...@pacbell.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 7:02 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Alva on eBay Hmm, should I be offended? I list in all caps, only because I don't want to pay for bold type. :-) John Robles Robert Wright esrobe...@hotmail.com wrote: I couldn't agree more, George. Personally, I think the line about Edison making machines to let other companies sell is clear evidence of this guy's intent to deceive in a big way (no one who knows enough about Edison to distinguish between models that thoroughly would ever believe Edison sold generic machines for other companies to market). And frankly, as strange as it may sound (and as much as I hate generalizations), I've found that people who list in all caps are worthy of a bit of healthy suspicion and skepticism. Best to all, Robert - Original Message - From: George Glastris To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Alva on eBay The whole piece looks suspicious to me. Firstly, the case is all wrong. Second, he states Edison let other companies sell his machines. Hardly! Edison rarely had anything to do with other companies. He didn't produce premium machines as did Columbia and Victor. He protected his trade mark more than he did his wife's honour. Thirdly, where is the on/off switch Fourth, the binding posts look wrong. This is the problem with Ebay. It's the blind leading the blind. I don't mean to say the seller is being intentionally deceitful, and seems to have done some homework, but perhaps that homework was done to fit the machine, not the other way around. Regards to all, George Glastris - Original Message - From: Steven Medved To: ; Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 11:01 AM Subject: [Phono-L] Alva on eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=6585961775 http://tinyurl.com/9k66c I have questions. Did the Alva always have a raised lower bedplate like the opera and idelia? Did the Alva ever have an ID plate that said Triumph? Were LEFT OVER MODEL B's WERE RECASED IN OAK CASES WITH NO LID OR THE EDISON BANNER TO BE SOLD BY OTHER PHONOGRAPH COMPANIES. I know Edison made model B's and D's at the same time Ref page 345 346 Frow book Chapter 29. This is why some home B's have decals like the home D. Edison never wasted, but I have never heard of this, and I notice the trademark is still on the upper and lower bedplate. Did Model B phonographs ever come from the Edison factory with the 2/4 upgrade installed? The new oak case seems a convenient way to get rid of the crank hole. I do not know the seller, nor am I making fun of him as he probably got the phono this way and is relaying what he was told. I will not write sellers as some are incredibly rude and I want to learn and share info, not argue. The last time I wrote an Edison console seller telling him what phono he had since he did not know he was horrible so I no longer waste my time. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/192 - Release Date: 12/5/2005 ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
[Phono-L] Alva on eBay
hi all the alva was real a friend of mine bought it zono
[Phono-L] Alva on eBay
hi all sorry i thought you were all talking about the alva that went off a few weeks ago i have to agree with the majority on this one zono_eBay: EDISON ALVA ELECTRIC PHONOGRAPH (item 6585961775 end time Dec-11-05 17:03:42 PST)_ (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=6585961775ru=http://search.ebay.com:80/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResultht =1shortcut=0from=R41query=6585961775category0=Submit=Searchfvi=1)
[Phono-L] Alva on eBay
Hi George, You are correct, I missed this one. Thirdly, where is the on/off switch Fourth, the binding posts look wrong. I do not know what they should look like so I would appreciate you telling me as I have never seen an Alva. I really enjoyed your post, thanks. Steve
[Phono-L] Alva on eBay
:-D I get it now. I put my title in caps but not the decription, I hate that too. Robert Wright esrobe...@hotmail.com wrote: Lol, not at all, John, I meant the item description, not the title. ..unless you have something to confess. ;-) (I feel my chain getting yanked.) r. - Original Message - From: john robles To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 7:02 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Alva on eBay Hmm, should I be offended? I list in all caps, only because I don't want to pay for bold type. :-) John Robles Robert Wright wrote: I couldn't agree more, George. Personally, I think the line about Edison making machines to let other companies sell is clear evidence of this guy's intent to deceive in a big way (no one who knows enough about Edison to distinguish between models that thoroughly would ever believe Edison sold generic machines for other companies to market). And frankly, as strange as it may sound (and as much as I hate generalizations), I've found that people who list in all caps are worthy of a bit of healthy suspicion and skepticism. Best to all, Robert - Original Message - From: George Glastris To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Alva on eBay The whole piece looks suspicious to me. Firstly, the case is all wrong. Second, he states Edison let other companies sell his machines. Hardly! Edison rarely had anything to do with other companies. He didn't produce premium machines as did Columbia and Victor. He protected his trade mark more than he did his wife's honour. Thirdly, where is the on/off switch Fourth, the binding posts look wrong. This is the problem with Ebay. It's the blind leading the blind. I don't mean to say the seller is being intentionally deceitful, and seems to have done some homework, but perhaps that homework was done to fit the machine, not the other way around. Regards to all, George Glastris - Original Message - From: Steven Medved To: ; Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 11:01 AM Subject: [Phono-L] Alva on eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=6585961775 http://tinyurl.com/9k66c I have questions. Did the Alva always have a raised lower bedplate like the opera and idelia? Did the Alva ever have an ID plate that said Triumph? Were LEFT OVER MODEL B's WERE RECASED IN OAK CASES WITH NO LID OR THE EDISON BANNER TO BE SOLD BY OTHER PHONOGRAPH COMPANIES. I know Edison made model B's and D's at the same time Ref page 345 346 Frow book Chapter 29. This is why some home B's have decals like the home D. Edison never wasted, but I have never heard of this, and I notice the trademark is still on the upper and lower bedplate. Did Model B phonographs ever come from the Edison factory with the 2/4 upgrade installed? The new oak case seems a convenient way to get rid of the crank hole. I do not know the seller, nor am I making fun of him as he probably got the phono this way and is relaying what he was told. I will not write sellers as some are incredibly rude and I want to learn and share info, not argue. The last time I wrote an Edison console seller telling him what phono he had since he did not know he was horrible so I no longer waste my time. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/192 - Release Date: 12/5/2005 ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
[Phono-L] Alva on eBay
I agree. The first sight of the machine shouted 'wrong'. Surprising that an Alva makes a huge price, and a short time later this pops up. New on the scene: Watch out for EMG remakes from India - saw one earlier in the week. These are also expensive machines in the original. Following the adage - where there's money there's fraud. regards Rob From: George Glastris glast...@edisongallery.com Reply-To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Alva on eBay Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 14:06:04 -0600 The whole piece looks suspicious to me. Firstly, the case is all wrong. Second, he states Edison let other companies sell his machines. Hardly! Edison rarely had anything to do with other companies. He didn't produce premium machines as did Columbia and Victor. He protected his trade mark more than he did his wife's honour. Thirdly, where is the on/off switch Fourth, the binding posts look wrong. This is the problem with Ebay. It's the blind leading the blind. I don't mean to say the seller is being intentionally deceitful, and seems to have done some homework, but perhaps that homework was done to fit the machine, not the other way around. Regards to all, George Glastris - Original Message - From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: Phono-L@oldcrank.org; phonol...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 11:01 AM Subject: [Phono-L] Alva on eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=6585961775 http://tinyurl.com/9k66c I have questions. Did the Alva always have a raised lower bedplate like the opera and idelia? Did the Alva ever have an ID plate that said Triumph? Were LEFT OVER MODEL B's WERE RECASED IN OAK CASES WITH NO LID OR THE EDISON BANNER TO BE SOLD BY OTHER PHONOGRAPH COMPANIES. I know Edison made model B's and D's at the same time Ref page 345 346 Frow book Chapter 29. This is why some home B's have decals like the home D. Edison never wasted, but I have never heard of this, and I notice the trademark is still on the upper and lower bedplate. Did Model B phonographs ever come from the Edison factory with the 2/4 upgrade installed? The new oak case seems a convenient way to get rid of the crank hole. I do not know the seller, nor am I making fun of him as he probably got the phono this way and is relaying what he was told. I will not write sellers as some are incredibly rude and I want to learn and share info, not argue. The last time I wrote an Edison console seller telling him what phono he had since he did not know he was horrible so I no longer waste my time. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/192 - Release Date: 12/5/2005 ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
[Phono-L] Alva on eBay
Me too. The bedplate is sitting asymmetrically on the frame, with much more wood showing in the front than the back. Isn't this a bit strange? Ray - Original Message - From: George Glastris glast...@edisongallery.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Alva on eBay The whole piece looks suspicious to me.
[Phono-L] Alva on eBay
Dear List: I just got back in town so missed the opening comments on the ALVA currently on eBay. It is an Edison coin op works and NOT an original ALVA. The cabinet is newly made and had to be to take the coin op works which used the larger C frame motor. The B Alva had the raised bedplate because the flat bedplate could not contain the Edison bipolar motor but it only had to be raised half an inch to clear the cabinet bottom. There is no On/Off lever on this eBay machine because the coin op had the coin slot trip which was the electrical make and break. The angled section of the lift lever part of the reproducer carriage was to trip the coin switch off which went through the bedplate down into the cabinet below. You can see the hole in the eBay photos if you use image enhancement. The earliest of the Alva machines used the open frame Edison bipolar motor and the raised bedplate gave the motor enough room to fit into a normal Triumph case. The raised bedplates were part of Edison's parts bins because they were for the IDEAL and later the Idelia. No special cabinets were made to house the larger older C frame motors.. It is obvious someone got a nice coin op mechanism and made a cabinet for it out of new wood. The coin op works do say Triumph while the ALVA nameplate distinguishes it from the other machines in the Edison line and would be labeled ALVA. The machine on eBay says Triumph. All this being said, the mechanism is rare and should bring a nice chunk of change to someone trying to complete a coin op machine. Best wishes to the list, time for me to hit the sack after riding in on the red eye special, Al
[Phono-L] Alva on eBay
Greetings to all! My name is Bill, and I'm new to this forum, though I'm not new to the wonderful field of antique phonographs. I reside in God's Country(New Hampshire-heheh) and have been collecting these damn things for 35 yrs. It really is a sickness! As far as this Alva goes, I'm reminded of a machine that went on Ebay several years ago. The seller(who is still active, but has changed his name numerous times) placed what he purported as a one of a kind machine that he said off the record he believed it was a machine comprised of a number of parts that an Edison worker was allowed to bring home and put together. It was supposedly an Opera/Concert and had the early mahogany base with the oxidized handles. The upper works was a beautifully repainted, and from an A-1, and had a matching maroon cygnet horn. It even had a Concert ID tag!!! (I would have loved to have examined those rivets!) Needless to say, the bidding was made private. As far as a worker being allowed to bring parts home, I truely doubt that. If anyone could make the indian ride the buffalo, it was old Tom. It sold for over $3.000, but oddly, there was never any feedback left for it. I always felt that the seller had been stuck with it himself, and was trying to unload it. W.C. Fields once said, You can fool some of the people some of the time, and that's enough to make a decent living. -- Original message -- From: Robert Wright esrobe...@hotmail.com I couldn't agree more, George. Personally, I think the line about Edison making machines to let other companies sell is clear evidence of this guy's intent to deceive in a big way (no one who knows enough about Edison to distinguish between models that thoroughly would ever believe Edison sold generic machines for other companies to market). And frankly, as strange as it may sound (and as much as I hate generalizations), I've found that people who list in all caps are worthy of a bit of healthy suspicion and skepticism. Best to all, Robert - Original Message - From: George Glastris To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Alva on eBay The whole piece looks suspicious to me. Firstly, the case is all wrong. Second, he states Edison let other companies sell his machines. Hardly! Edison rarely had anything to do with other companies. He didn't produce premium machines as did Columbia and Victor. He protected his trade mark more than he did his wife's honour. Thirdly, where is the on/off switch Fourth, the binding posts look wrong. This is the problem with Ebay. It's the blind leading the blind. I don't mean to say the seller is being intentionally deceitful, and seems to have done some homework, but perhaps that homework was done to fit the machine, not the other way around. Regards to all, George Glastris - Original Message - From: Steven Medved To: ; Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 11:01 AM Subject: [Phono-L] Alva on eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=6585961775 http://tinyurl.com/9k66c I have questions. Did the Alva always have a raised lower bedplate like the opera and idelia? Did the Alva ever have an ID plate that said Triumph? Were LEFT OVER MODEL B's WERE RECASED IN OAK CASES WITH NO LID OR THE EDISON BANNER TO BE SOLD BY OTHER PHONOGRAPH COMPANIES. I know Edison made model B's and D's at the same time Ref page 345 346 Frow book Chapter 29. This is why some home B's have decals like the home D. Edison never wasted, but I have never heard of this, and I notice the trademark is still on the upper and lower bedplate. Did Model B phonographs ever come from the Edison factory with the 2/4 upgrade installed? The new oak case seems a convenient way to get rid of the crank hole. I do not know the seller, nor am I making fun of him as he probably got the phono this way and is relaying what he was told. I will not write sellers as some are incredibly rude and I want to learn and share info, not argue. The last time I wrote an Edison console seller telling him what phono he had since he did not know he was horrible so I no longer waste my time. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/192 - Release Date: 12/5/2005 ___ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l
