Re: [Phono-L] Waxing DD
In the Blue Amberol book there is a description of the manufacturing process. The last rinse leaves a slight lubricant on the cylinder. It will be all gone by now even if the cylinder being examined is NOS. Stearin is soluable in ether and benzene. Benzine was very popular in years gone by as the solvent of choice for many things. Bruce Mercer wrote: DD were waxed starting in about 1920 with stearin. Stearin is a triglyceride and is found in heavy fats, animal and plant, palm oil being one. It is insoluable in water and somewhat soluable in alcohol. It's basically a hardener. I'm guessing it was mixed with alcohol for the DD. Obviously this wouldn't have been done with BA. I have my doubts as to anyone 'seeing' it on a cylinder, if indeed it was ever used on a cylinder. I've opened unopened boxes of DD from the factory and you can tell nothing visually different from a mint copy that's been played and taken care of in a machine. (The use of stearin is discussed in Ron Dethlefson's book, Edison Diamond Discs Re-Creations Record Artists 1910-1929. DIAMON DISC RECORD PRODUCTION. PAGE 151. The only proper thing to clean DD is denatured alcohol as it has almost no water content. As for a light coating after that type of cleaning, I have experimented with different brands. It has a small effect on worn records, taking a very little of the hiss away and hiding grey grooves for the unscrupulous that may want to put lipstick on a pig and put it on ebay. It would be interesting to know the exact procedure used in using stearin, as it was used for a wear retardant. My .02 Bruce M. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Waxing DD
Thanks Rich, I wondered about benzine (naptha) as it was widely used for many years as a solvent. It evaporates quickly as well. My guess is that benzine was used. Ether was even more flammable than benzine or alcohol... or they problably would have been passed out sleeping on the job. Bruce - Original Message - From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Waxing DD In the Blue Amberol book there is a description of the manufacturing process. The last rinse leaves a slight lubricant on the cylinder. It will be all gone by now even if the cylinder being examined is NOS. Stearin is soluable in ether and benzene. Benzine was very popular in years gone by as the solvent of choice for many things. Bruce Mercer wrote: DD were waxed starting in about 1920 with stearin. Stearin is a triglyceride and is found in heavy fats, animal and plant, palm oil being one. It is insoluable in water and somewhat soluable in alcohol. It's basically a hardener. I'm guessing it was mixed with alcohol for the DD. Obviously this wouldn't have been done with BA. I have my doubts as to anyone 'seeing' it on a cylinder, if indeed it was ever used on a cylinder. I've opened unopened boxes of DD from the factory and you can tell nothing visually different from a mint copy that's been played and taken care of in a machine. (The use of stearin is discussed in Ron Dethlefson's book, Edison Diamond Discs Re-Creations Record Artists 1910-1929. DIAMON DISC RECORD PRODUCTION. PAGE 151. The only proper thing to clean DD is denatured alcohol as it has almost no water content. As for a light coating after that type of cleaning, I have experimented with different brands. It has a small effect on worn records, taking a very little of the hiss away and hiding grey grooves for the unscrupulous that may want to put lipstick on a pig and put it on ebay. It would be interesting to know the exact procedure used in using stearin, as it was used for a wear retardant. My .02 Bruce M. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Waxing DD
Ether goes anhydrous real easy and explodes. The benzine of yore is the complete benzine ring. Naphtha is not the complete ring and lacks all of the solvent properties of the old style benzine. It's also slightly less likely to rot your brain. Bruce Mercer wrote: Thanks Rich, I wondered about benzine (naptha) as it was widely used for many years as a solvent. It evaporates quickly as well. My guess is that benzine was used. Ether was even more flammable than benzine or alcohol... or they problably would have been passed out sleeping on the job. Bruce - Original Message - From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Waxing DD In the Blue Amberol book there is a description of the manufacturing process. The last rinse leaves a slight lubricant on the cylinder. It will be all gone by now even if the cylinder being examined is NOS. Stearin is soluable in ether and benzene. Benzine was very popular in years gone by as the solvent of choice for many things. Bruce Mercer wrote: DD were waxed starting in about 1920 with stearin. Stearin is a triglyceride and is found in heavy fats, animal and plant, palm oil being one. It is insoluable in water and somewhat soluable in alcohol. It's basically a hardener. I'm guessing it was mixed with alcohol for the DD. Obviously this wouldn't have been done with BA. I have my doubts as to anyone 'seeing' it on a cylinder, if indeed it was ever used on a cylinder. I've opened unopened boxes of DD from the factory and you can tell nothing visually different from a mint copy that's been played and taken care of in a machine. (The use of stearin is discussed in Ron Dethlefson's book, Edison Diamond Discs Re-Creations Record Artists 1910-1929. DIAMON DISC RECORD PRODUCTION. PAGE 151. The only proper thing to clean DD is denatured alcohol as it has almost no water content. As for a light coating after that type of cleaning, I have experimented with different brands. It has a small effect on worn records, taking a very little of the hiss away and hiding grey grooves for the unscrupulous that may want to put lipstick on a pig and put it on ebay. It would be interesting to know the exact procedure used in using stearin, as it was used for a wear retardant. My .02 Bruce M. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Waxing DD
Fascinating. I appreciate learning something like this from someone who knows. Would you guess, then, that they used benzine as the stearin solvent? Just like everything else these days, what's on the label does not necessarily mean what it did 100 yrs. ago. Benzine now comes in a can (Naptha) printed underneath! - Original Message - From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Waxing DD Ether goes anhydrous real easy and explodes. The benzine of yore is the complete benzine ring. Naphtha is not the complete ring and lacks all of the solvent properties of the old style benzine. It's also slightly less likely to rot your brain. Bruce Mercer wrote: Thanks Rich, I wondered about benzine (naptha) as it was widely used for many years as a solvent. It evaporates quickly as well. My guess is that benzine was used. Ether was even more flammable than benzine or alcohol... or they problably would have been passed out sleeping on the job. Bruce - Original Message - From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Waxing DD In the Blue Amberol book there is a description of the manufacturing process. The last rinse leaves a slight lubricant on the cylinder. It will be all gone by now even if the cylinder being examined is NOS. Stearin is soluable in ether and benzene. Benzine was very popular in years gone by as the solvent of choice for many things. Bruce Mercer wrote: DD were waxed starting in about 1920 with stearin. Stearin is a triglyceride and is found in heavy fats, animal and plant, palm oil being one. It is insoluable in water and somewhat soluable in alcohol. It's basically a hardener. I'm guessing it was mixed with alcohol for the DD. Obviously this wouldn't have been done with BA. I have my doubts as to anyone 'seeing' it on a cylinder, if indeed it was ever used on a cylinder. I've opened unopened boxes of DD from the factory and you can tell nothing visually different from a mint copy that's been played and taken care of in a machine. (The use of stearin is discussed in Ron Dethlefson's book, Edison Diamond Discs Re-Creations Record Artists 1910-1929. DIAMON DISC RECORD PRODUCTION. PAGE 151. The only proper thing to clean DD is denatured alcohol as it has almost no water content. As for a light coating after that type of cleaning, I have experimented with different brands. It has a small effect on worn records, taking a very little of the hiss away and hiding grey grooves for the unscrupulous that may want to put lipstick on a pig and put it on ebay. It would be interesting to know the exact procedure used in using stearin, as it was used for a wear retardant. My .02 Bruce M. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Waxing DD
During my chemical engineering days at school I actually dressed up as a benzene ring one year. Don't ask - it was pretty stupid and I think alcohol may have been involved. The terms naptha and benzine are used somewhat interchangeably as can be seen on your can of benzine/naptha. Both definitions are similar and are any of a variety of...solvents... However, benzene (notice the spelling difference) is C6H6 and is what is chemically illustrated by the benzene ring we all saw in chemistry class. I didn't do anything chemical engineering related with the degree so my knowledge of benzene stops here and it was a long time ago. Glenn From: Bruce Mercer maxbu...@wowway.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 1:44:53 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Waxing DD Fascinating. I appreciate learning something like this from someone who knows. Would you guess, then, that they used benzine as the stearin solvent? Just like everything else these days, what's on the label does not necessarily mean what it did 100 yrs. ago. Benzine now comes in a can (Naptha) printed underneath! - Original Message - From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Waxing DD Ether goes anhydrous real easy and explodes. The benzine of yore is the complete benzine ring. Naphtha is not the complete ring and lacks all of the solvent properties of the old style benzine. It's also slightly less likely to rot your brain. Bruce Mercer wrote: Thanks Rich, I wondered about benzine (naptha) as it was widely used for many years as a solvent. It evaporates quickly as well. My guess is that benzine was used. Ether was even more flammable than benzine or alcohol... or they problably would have been passed out sleeping on the job. Bruce - Original Message - From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Waxing DD In the Blue Amberol book there is a description of the manufacturing process. The last rinse leaves a slight lubricant on the cylinder. It will be all gone by now even if the cylinder being examined is NOS. Stearin is soluable in ether and benzene. Benzine was very popular in years gone by as the solvent of choice for many things. Bruce Mercer wrote: DD were waxed starting in about 1920 with stearin. Stearin is a triglyceride and is found in heavy fats, animal and plant, palm oil being one. It is insoluable in water and somewhat soluable in alcohol. It's basically a hardener. I'm guessing it was mixed with alcohol for the DD. Obviously this wouldn't have been done with BA. I have my doubts as to anyone 'seeing' it on a cylinder, if indeed it was ever used on a cylinder. I've opened unopened boxes of DD from the factory and you can tell nothing visually different from a mint copy that's been played and taken care of in a machine. (The use of stearin is discussed in Ron Dethlefson's book, Edison Diamond Discs Re-Creations Record Artists 1910-1929. DIAMON DISC RECORD PRODUCTION. PAGE 151. The only proper thing to clean DD is denatured alcohol as it has almost no water content. As for a light coating after that type of cleaning, I have experimented with different brands. It has a small effect on worn records, taking a very little of the hiss away and hiding grey grooves for the unscrupulous that may want to put lipstick on a pig and put it on ebay. It would be interesting to know the exact procedure used in using stearin, as it was used for a wear retardant. My .02 Bruce M. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Waxing DD
As was recently pointed out by another contributor. Benzine is a mixture of solvents and benzene is the C6H6 compound of yore. Benzine/Naphtha will not do an adequate job when compared to benzene. To add to the grief benzene is almost impossible to buy and is expensive. It is also not good for you at all. It is probably as dangerous as carbon tetrachloride. I have never paid that much attention to the different spellings og benzene even though I am aware that you really should... Bruce Mercer wrote: Fascinating. I appreciate learning something like this from someone who knows. Would you guess, then, that they used benzine as the stearin solvent? Just like everything else these days, what's on the label does not necessarily mean what it did 100 yrs. ago. Benzine now comes in a can (Naptha) printed underneath! - Original Message - From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Waxing DD Ether goes anhydrous real easy and explodes. The benzine of yore is the complete benzine ring. Naphtha is not the complete ring and lacks all of the solvent properties of the old style benzine. It's also slightly less likely to rot your brain. Bruce Mercer wrote: Thanks Rich, I wondered about benzine (naptha) as it was widely used for many years as a solvent. It evaporates quickly as well. My guess is that benzine was used. Ether was even more flammable than benzine or alcohol... or they problably would have been passed out sleeping on the job. Bruce - Original Message - From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Waxing DD In the Blue Amberol book there is a description of the manufacturing process. The last rinse leaves a slight lubricant on the cylinder. It will be all gone by now even if the cylinder being examined is NOS. Stearin is soluable in ether and benzene. Benzine was very popular in years gone by as the solvent of choice for many things. Bruce Mercer wrote: DD were waxed starting in about 1920 with stearin. Stearin is a triglyceride and is found in heavy fats, animal and plant, palm oil being one. It is insoluable in water and somewhat soluable in alcohol. It's basically a hardener. I'm guessing it was mixed with alcohol for the DD. Obviously this wouldn't have been done with BA. I have my doubts as to anyone 'seeing' it on a cylinder, if indeed it was ever used on a cylinder. I've opened unopened boxes of DD from the factory and you can tell nothing visually different from a mint copy that's been played and taken care of in a machine. (The use of stearin is discussed in Ron Dethlefson's book, Edison Diamond Discs Re-Creations Record Artists 1910-1929. DIAMON DISC RECORD PRODUCTION. PAGE 151. The only proper thing to clean DD is denatured alcohol as it has almost no water content. As for a light coating after that type of cleaning, I have experimented with different brands. It has a small effect on worn records, taking a very little of the hiss away and hiding grey grooves for the unscrupulous that may want to put lipstick on a pig and put it on ebay. It would be interesting to know the exact procedure used in using stearin, as it was used for a wear retardant. My .02 Bruce M. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
