Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Thursday, December 22, 2016 11:42:44 AM UTC Marco Martin wrote:
> On Thursday 22 December 2016 09:10:11 Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> > Go for it. And then let's talk where else we have to change things to
> > streamline our branding.
> > 
> > I'm glad we have reached a consensus.
> 
> done, the most visible places use the plasma logo now

Thank you! :)
-- 
sebas

Sebastian Kügler•http://vizZzion.org•http://www.kde.org

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Marco Martin]

On Thursday 22 December 2016 09:10:11 Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> Go for it. And then let's talk where else we have to change things to
> streamline our branding.
> 
> I'm glad we have reached a consensus.

done, the most visible places use the plasma logo now

-- 
Marco Martin

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Friday, December 16, 2016 10:49:14 AM UTC Marco Martin wrote:
> On Wednesday 07 December 2016 13:58:34 Jens Reuterberg wrote:
> > About half a year ago this thread started and so far no actual change has
> > happened.
> >
> > 
> >
> > The background is that the past logo for Plasma Desktop was disagreed upon
> > by the Plasma developer team and they wanted a new one. Thomas created a
> > competition of sorts which had a lot of suggestions in it.
> 
> as far i understood, decision seem to have been reached.
> If there aren't furtherobjection, I would shortly (next week?) change the 2 
> most visible logos: the start-here-kde icon in plasma theme for
> kickoff/kicker and the splash screen logo

Go for it. And then let's talk where else we have to change things to 
streamline our branding.

I'm glad we have reached a consensus.
-- 
sebas

Sebastian Kügler•http://vizZzion.org•http://www.kde.org

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Ivan Čukić]

> If there aren't furtherobjection, I would shortly (next week?) change the 2
> most visible logos: the start-here-kde icon in plasma theme for

Instead, I'd advise creating start-here-plasma - both the icon and the
plasma theme icon - and making it the default*.

The main reason being - user wanting to switch the icon back to kde
gear - she selects it in the dialogue (where it *is* a gear-K) and
gets a completely different icon.

Cheers,
Ivan


* I still am not fond of the idea to replace KDE logo in the launcher
for the Plasma logo, but I'm not going to stop the progress :)

-- 
KDE, ivan.cu...@kde.org, http://cukic.co/
gpg key fingerprint: 292F 9B5C 5A1B 2A2F 9CF3  45DF C9C5 77AF 0A37 240A

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Marco Martin]

On Wednesday 07 December 2016 13:58:34 Jens Reuterberg wrote:
> About half a year ago this thread started and so far no actual change has
> happened.
> 
> The background is that the past logo for Plasma Desktop was disagreed upon
> by the Plasma developer team and they wanted a new one. Thomas created a
> competition of sorts which had a lot of suggestions in it.

as far i understood, decision seem to have been reached.
If there aren't furtherobjection, I would shortly (next week?) change the 2 
most visible logos: the start-here-kde icon in plasma theme for kickoff/kicker 
and the splash screen logo

-- 
Marco Martin

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Marco Martin]

On Friday 09 December 2016 00:43:28 Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 7, 2016 8:58:34 PM UTC Martin Gräßlin wrote:
> > Personally I find it important that the developers have a say in what
> > the logo is. I think we identify by it and the logo needs to work with
> > us.
> 
> We did have a say, more than one (on the forums, we had the logo's posted
> for feedback on the wiki,  , and neither process has delivered a firm
> decision when we got to make it. Let's admit defeat on this process and

yeah, and also a lengthy discussion at akademy on he problems of each logo, in 
which the current one has emerged as the least problematic (maybe not 
something to jump of joy about, but acceptable)
So for me, time is up, we are unlikely to get something better in a timely 
fashion, let's move ahead with that one!

-- 
Marco Martin

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Wednesday, December 7, 2016 1:58:34 PM UTC Jens Reuterberg wrote:
> About half a year ago this thread started and so far no actual change has
> happened.

That's embarrasing. :-( 

Thanks for bringing this topic up, though.

> The background is that the past logo for Plasma Desktop was disagreed upon
> by the Plasma developer team and they wanted a new one. Thomas created a
> competition of sorts which had a lot of suggestions in it.
> 
> Currently, no final decision has been made on this which leaves us with
> three options:
> 1) VDG decides.
> 2) The developers decide
> 3) We use the KDE logo
> 
> Now
> 
> #1 means that we with a high level of chance will go to the Plasma logo we
> had before this started. 

I'd welcome this, it's a very pragmatical decision to pick the strongest 
contender when no other has shown to be significantly better. Also it's safe 
(the current logo is proven to work technically, and it's the least costly 
option for us to use, as it's already available in most forms, just not 
consistently applied.

Also, you guys are most affected by the lack of a clear logo / branding 
guideline in your daily work, and I think we've wasted enough of our 
collective time on this.

Personally, I have grown to really like the logo and to me it bears meaning 
(and flexibility for interpretation). Especially the representation of shell is 
something that strokes me in just the right way by appealing to the geek in 
me.

> There is zero criticism against it that has been
> valid except that the developers who didn't like it in the first place
> didn't like it. Which is relevant of course.

To a degree, yes. But not in a blocking role, only to propose alternatives.

> #2 means this thread needs a choice. This WILL NOT continue in any
> structured form where people are egged on to make "suggestions" and then a
> round table debate. It has taken work time from VDG contributors, caused
> meaningless arguments and bikeshedding and has been the kind of work we can
> all see will never end. I honestly regret not having the courage to say
> "No" when it was first debated.
> (if some designer wants to work with the Plasma Developers on this, go for
> it, no one will stop you of course. But the VDG will not supply designers
> to this task formally or make any further efforts which has been so far a
> half a year of throwing manhours into a pit)

That's entirely understandable. The VDG is much more affected by the lack of a 
clear branding guideline than the people who write the code. You are right to 
complain and to ask to not have your time wasted.

> #3 Means that we take the work on seperating KDE the community from Plasma
> the desktop and pretend it didn't happen. Which sounds dramatic but its
> essentially leaving it as a status quo.

For all the obvious reasons, no, let's not destroy this effort. The branding 
serves a clear purpose and solves real problems.

> [...] Unless something is posted here my assumption is that the design 
> decision is up to the KDE Design Group/VDG and we will choose, reply and 
> move on with this and our lives.

Yes, let's please do that.
-- 
sebas

Sebastian Kügler•http://vizZzion.org•http://www.kde.org

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Wednesday, December 7, 2016 3:51:39 PM UTC Ken Vermette wrote:
> Here's my proposal: we get a form up tomorrow, put it on plasma-devel
> mailing lists. We set the voting deadline to December 23rd midnight, giving
> the vote just over two weeks. That gives us a time to commit the new logo
> to Plasma 5.9 before freeze, and for those of us who celebrate the holidays
> in December we can announce the new logo as a "Present" on Planet KDE.
> 
> Does that sound like a plan?

Nope. I have two issues with this:

* We would put an important decision for our branding in the hands of, a 
sample of our users, developers, contributors, ...? This doesn't work because 
we don't have clear rules who gets to vote in the first place, and then down 
the rabbit hole from there. On top of that, I think it's inherently broken to 
assign such a decision to a vote. How often have you heard that design by 
committee has produced excellent results. You're essentially trying to create  
a new process, that's not proven to deliver quality results. We might almost 
as well throw dice.

* As Jens said so eloquently, we've wasted enough time on this, a pragmatic 
decision is needed. There's hardly any reason at this point to not trust our 
proven processes and leave the last word in important design decisions to the 
VDG.
-- 
sebas

Sebastian Kügler•http://vizZzion.org•http://www.kde.org

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Wednesday, December 7, 2016 8:58:34 PM UTC Martin Gräßlin wrote:
> Personally I find it important that the developers have a say in what 
> the logo is. I think we identify by it and the logo needs to work with 
> us.

We did have a say, more than one (on the forums, we had the logo's posted for 
feedback on the wiki,  , and neither process has delivered a firm decision 
when we got to make it. Let's admit defeat on this process and move on. Let's 
also accept that aside from potential technical issues (which I think there 
are none deal-breaking), that the choice of a logo boils down to sentimental 
value, and being able to identify one's work and effort with the logo. To me 
personally, I can connect quite well to the current-de-facto-temporary logo.

I think at this point, it's entirely fair to those who are most affected by 
the lack of a clear branding (mainly our logo) to say "Look guys, you had 
months to come to a decision, you haven't, we're now moving on with this.".
-- 
sebas

Sebastian Kügler•http://vizZzion.org•http://www.kde.org

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Ken Vermette]

I think this is likely the best and most expedient idea. Just list all the
potential logotypes and have everyone score every logo on a scale.
Whichever logo has the highest score becomes the Plasma logo. If there's a
tie the VDG serves as tiebreaker.

If everyone is O.K. with something like Google Forms (for this one-time
selection) I could have something up very quickly... Unless we already have
some very fast-and-easy internal form tool. I know some people have a thing
against Google, but it's the fastest way I can think of, it has
anti-favoritism feature (question shuffling) and we need to just get this
done without making it overcomplicated. We can also require email addresses
(but not require Google accounts) to verify people have only voted one time.

Here's my proposal: we get a form up tomorrow, put it on plasma-devel
mailing lists. We set the voting deadline to December 23rd midnight, giving
the vote just over two weeks. That gives us a time to commit the new logo
to Plasma 5.9 before freeze, and for those of us who celebrate the holidays
in December we can announce the new logo as a "Present" on Planet KDE.

Does that sound like a plan?

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 2:58 PM, Martin Gräßlin  wrote:

> Am 2016-12-07 18:04, schrieb Marco Martin:
>
>> Hi Jens,
>> Thanks to make this rolling again!
>> and yes, is massively about time to decide something
>>
>> On Wednesday 07 December 2016 13:58:34 Jens Reuterberg wrote:
>>
>>> #1 means that we with a high level of chance will go to the Plasma logo
>>> we
>>> had before this started. There is zero criticism against it that has been
>>> valid except that the developers who didn't like it in the first place
>>> didn't like it. Which is relevant of course.
>>>
>>
>> I would be fine with that logo
>>
>> Unless something is posted here my assumption is that the design decision
>>> is
>>> up to the KDE Design Group/VDG and we will choose, reply and move on with
>>> this and our lives.
>>>
>>
>> As the current status goes, for me the best one is Uri's logo (I prefer
>> if is
>> always used monochrome tough)
>>
>
> I think there were a few issues with the selection process. I remember
> that it was very difficult to say which ones were up to discussion (the
> second version of the version provided by foo).
>
> And that made it really hard.
>
> Maybe go back a step and create a questionaire with all the icons and let
> the devs vote on it in a from 1 to 5 scale to figure out which ones are
> liked and which ones not.
>
> Personally I find it important that the developers have a say in what the
> logo is. I think we identify by it and the logo needs to work with us.
>
> Cheers
> Martin
>

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Martin Gräßlin]

Am 2016-12-07 18:04, schrieb Marco Martin:

Hi Jens,
Thanks to make this rolling again!
and yes, is massively about time to decide something

On Wednesday 07 December 2016 13:58:34 Jens Reuterberg wrote:
#1 means that we with a high level of chance will go to the Plasma 
logo we
had before this started. There is zero criticism against it that has 
been

valid except that the developers who didn't like it in the first place
didn't like it. Which is relevant of course.


I would be fine with that logo

Unless something is posted here my assumption is that the design 
decision is
up to the KDE Design Group/VDG and we will choose, reply and move on 
with

this and our lives.


As the current status goes, for me the best one is Uri's logo (I prefer 
if is

always used monochrome tough)


I think there were a few issues with the selection process. I remember 
that it was very difficult to say which ones were up to discussion (the 
second version of the version provided by foo).


And that made it really hard.

Maybe go back a step and create a questionaire with all the icons and 
let the devs vote on it in a from 1 to 5 scale to figure out which ones 
are liked and which ones not.


Personally I find it important that the developers have a say in what 
the logo is. I think we identify by it and the logo needs to work with 
us.


Cheers
Martin

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Marco Martin]

Hi Jens,
Thanks to make this rolling again!
and yes, is massively about time to decide something

On Wednesday 07 December 2016 13:58:34 Jens Reuterberg wrote:
> #1 means that we with a high level of chance will go to the Plasma logo we
> had before this started. There is zero criticism against it that has been
> valid except that the developers who didn't like it in the first place
> didn't like it. Which is relevant of course.

I would be fine with that logo

> Unless something is posted here my assumption is that the design decision is
> up to the KDE Design Group/VDG and we will choose, reply and move on with
> this and our lives.

As the current status goes, for me the best one is Uri's logo (I prefer if is 
always used monochrome tough)

-- 
Marco Martin

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Jens Reuterberg]

About half a year ago this thread started and so far no actual change has 
happened. 

The background is that the past logo for Plasma Desktop was disagreed upon by 
the Plasma developer team and they wanted a new one. Thomas created a 
competition of sorts which had a lot of suggestions in it.

Currently, no final decision has been made on this which leaves us with three 
options:
1) VDG decides.
2) The developers decide
3) We use the KDE logo 

Now 

#1 means that we with a high level of chance will go to the Plasma logo we had 
before this started. There is zero criticism against it that has been valid 
except that the developers who didn't like it in the first place didn't like 
it. Which is relevant of course.
#2 means this thread needs a choice. This WILL NOT continue in any structured 
form where people are egged on to make "suggestions" and then a round table 
debate. It has taken work time from VDG contributors, caused meaningless 
arguments and bikeshedding and has been the kind of work we can all see will 
never end. I honestly regret not having the courage to say "No" when it was 
first debated.
(if some designer wants to work with the Plasma Developers on this, go for it, 
no one will stop you of course. But the VDG will not supply designers to this 
task formally or make any further efforts which has been so far a half a year 
of throwing manhours into a pit)
#3 Means that we take the work on seperating KDE the community from Plasma the 
desktop and pretend it didn't happen. Which sounds dramatic but its 
essentially leaving it as a status quo.

Now this is Open Source and KDE, none of us have the right to dictate to 
others what to do with their spare time.
But as a designer I can assure you that what we are doing with this is wasting 
our collective time. 
There is NO perfect solution. No perfect logo for a project which out of the 
blue will summarize everyones expectations and hopes. Nothing that can't be 
shredded in a round session of bikeshedding and "uhms" and "ehrs". There will 
never be a choice made.
The reason why the old icon was the one we stuck with has parts to do with no 
one actually speaking up at the time when it was thrown in there. But that is 
not relevant. 
It is good because it is different from the K, clearly different. It is good 
because it played on the shape of the cashew symbol but using the design 
guides formed in the beginning of Plasma 5. It is good because it is so 
absolutely abstract as to not clash with any other symbolism out there. It is 
a blank slate to be loaded with meaning instead of an heraldic symbol where 
the meaning and statements we feel we are part of need to be presented. 
This is also BAD as it needs to be used and reused to gain meaning. If we 
don't use it it is JUST a bit of abstract scribble. 

None of this means that the suggestions in the thread Thomas posted are bad, 
or worse than, or subpar or anything. It just means that if the choice was 
mine - if we where picking one thing to present to a client in a professional 
setting. I would pick the original logo without a second hesitation. 

Unless something is posted here my assumption is that the design decision is 
up to the KDE Design Group/VDG and we will choose, reply and move on with this 
and our lives.


On Monday, 25 July 2016 20:54:14 CET Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> Dear Plasma development team, dear VDG,
> the official deadline for the Plasma logo contest has passed yesterday.
> We have five entries into the contest, with one actually consisting of five
> different mash-ups and modifications of the other entries, and one being
> Plasma's current logo.
> You can find all the proposals here:
> https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=285=133836
> I think we have quite a good selection here, and hope that we can find
> something here which we can agree on.
> In the contest thread, I promised a jury consisting of VDG members and
> Plasma team members.
> Now I've decided that since the whole Plasma team has to be able to identify
> themselves with the logo, and all VDG members should have the possibility
> to chip in as well, everyone who participates in the discussion is part of
> the jury. There won't be a voting process. Either we can agree on a logo,
> or everything stays like it is (the official Plasma logo still being what
> we have now, and the K logo being used for the launchers).
> I'd give us a discussion period until Sunday, unless a clear agreement can
> be reached before that.
> Please refer to the logo proposals by the creator's forum name (remember
> that our current logo is Uri's, not mine ;) ), and for Ken's just say e.g.
> "Ken's fourth logo".
> Happy discussions, here is to us finding a logo we can all (at least more or
> less) identify with!
> 
> Thomas
> ___
> Plasma-devel mailing list
> Plasma-devel@kde.org
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Clemens Toennies]

On Monday 22 August 2016, Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
>/As per the Plasma team's request, I have now created a Wiki page
with all />/submissions as presented in the forum, and - where available - 
how
they />/would look in a Panel. />/You can find that page here: 
/>/https://community.kde.org/KDE_Visual_Design_Group/Plasma_Logo_Contest 
/>/Each submission now has a number which should be referenced in the 
/>/discussion. It would be even nicer to have a completely standardized 
/>/presentation, but none of us had the combination of time and skills 
/>/necessary to create that. I hope this helps, anyway. /
I'll give a quick feedback on each one of them
1: i find it a bit too generic, with the > iside is better, but a gear 
reminds 
me too much of "options", "configure" or stuff like that
2: as I said before, the concept is neat but is really too generic, can't 
really get behind this one as is now
3: don't like it, sorry :/
4: surprisingly all in all, is probably still the one that i like more 
as-is 
(I still find it an issue of looking like 4 disjointed things)
5: missing from wiki, i like it but may be a bit too complicated (and 
reminds 
me the konqueror icon)
6: probably the best one as is now
7: missing from wiki, don't like it much
8: better than 2, but as is now, i find a bit disturbing that the outline 
of 
the planet and the > have very different weights (so makes it obvious 
that's 2 
things patched up), if the > was as slim as the outline, we could have a 
winner there
9: missing from wiki, don't like it much
10: looks like it was 1, but with a rendering glitch :/
11: don't like it much, has the same problems as a gear has, but even more 
complicated, looking disjointed
12: don't like it, sorry :/
13: don't like it, sorry :/


While I agree with most of Marcos points, I find (4) the best.
It is imo the most individual and intuitively one I associated with
"Plasma" and the idea of modularity (three dots = widgets/expandable
when needed) and effectiveness (the plain cursor for speed and
simpleness default).

About the idea clinging to the gear symbol:
I find it distracts from the point to give Plasma a true identity on its
own, so all of the gear variants will imo have people still associating
it likely with "KDE" and not Plasma.
(6) to me personally looks the least attractive, as I feel its more like
a broken or half-finished logo, possibly reinforcing the idea/perception
of some people that KDE software is always somewhat not complete or
ready and releasing beta or "half-baked" software.

Overall, I would pick (4), as it imo
- works great as a logo (imagine a shirt with just the plasma logo like
nike or addidas)
- looks also nice as a launcher icon (simply white or dark autochanging
without any color around it),
- already brands nicely "Plasma Mobile" (with nobody yet refering to as
"KDE mobile")
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/62/Plasma_Mobile_logo.svg/1024px-Plasma_Mobile_logo.svg.png
- looks good even if used tinily as a placeholder for the menu icon in
Window Decoration kcm:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pbzl085cxz7faoc/plasma-logo-windeco-kcm.png?dl=0

So its already looking good in those instances, which imo none of the
alternatives would look better or equally well.

Cheers, Clemens.

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Ivan Čukić]

On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 1:22 AM, Thomas Pfeiffer
> Yes, this is indeed a problem. Originally we were looking for a logo,
> but we don't think that a logo which is not visible anywhere in the
> desktop itself has much of a chance of actually becoming recognized.

I agree.

But if we had planned this from the start, we would be able to do the
contest differently - everyone would be asked to:

 - create the logo with some tagline (like Andy did)
 - put the logo on a shirt for example (the shirt svg would be provided)
 - (optionally) create a derivation of the logo for some special
sprint, for example Plasma@CERN
 - create launcher icons for various sizes that can be different from
the logo, but connected

>> I honestly don't think we should rush this for 5.8, we need more ideas.
>>
> The downside of not having a new logo with 5.8 is that the LTS would be
> stuck with the current situation.

Which is unfortunate, but not that much of a problem IMO - we have
been /stuck/ with the current K-gear icon in the launcher since KDE
1.1 (1999).

On the orther hand, LTS is the culmination of the stabilization work
we have been doing and it should have as few rush-jobs as possible -
it should provide what people are used to modulo the bugs.

Cheers,
Ivan

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Thomas Pfeiffer]

On 22.08.2016 23:59, Ivan Čukić wrote:

I'll chime in as well.

First of all the main problem I have with this 'searching for the new
logo' is that we are not really searching for the new Plasma logo, but
an icon that could replace the k-gear one
Yes, this is indeed a problem. Originally we were looking for a logo, but we 
don't think that a logo which is not visible anywhere in the desktop itself has 
much of a chance of actually becoming recognized. This is why we're looking for 
a logo that would also work as a launcher icon.
That said, logo and launcher icon do not have to be identical, as long as they 
share enough so that people can recognize the logo from the icon and vice versa.


The VDG would be fine if we'd look for a logo first and then went on to derive 
an icon from that (that was Andy's intention when creating his logo proposal, 
btw), but we don't want to choose a new logo if the Plasma team would not be 
willing to use an icon which is derived from it as the launcher icon.


[snip]

I honestly don't think we should rush this for 5.8, we need more ideas.

The downside of not having a new logo with 5.8 is that the LTS would be stuck 
with the current situation.

Of course we don't want a logo which the team does not like, either, however.

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Ivan Čukić]

I'll chime in as well.

First of all the main problem I have with this 'searching for the new
logo' is that we are not really searching for the new Plasma logo, but
an icon that could replace the k-gear one

1: the last version seems interesting, but I'm not sure I'd want it
for the launcher.

2 - great idea, but generic (and even worse as the icon).

3 - again, a nice idea, but I don't find it visually appealing (though
it might serve as an icon for KWin)

4 - as a logo great, as a launcher icon... not really

5 - looks mashed up

6 - I agree with Marco that this one looks best. Though, still not
sure it is good enough, and how nice it is for the launcher icon

9 - This one looks strangely nice as the icon when rotated 45 degrees
(see the file linked on the bottom - blue background, next to logo 4)
but I don't like it as the logo

I don't really find the rest to be able to compete with the above ones.

I honestly don't think we should rush this for 5.8, we need more ideas.

Cheers,
Ivan

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Alessandro Longo]

Il 22-08-2016 11:43 Thomas Pfeiffer ha scritto:

As per the Plasma team's request, I have now created a Wiki page with
all submissions as presented in the forum, and - where available - how
they would look in a Panel.
You can find that page here:
https://community.kde.org/KDE_Visual_Design_Group/Plasma_Logo_Contest
Each submission now has a number which should be referenced in the 
discussion.

It would be even nicer to have a completely standardized presentation,
but none of us had the combination of time and skills necessary to
create that.
I hope this helps, anyway.
Cheers,
Thomas


On 25.07.2016 20:54, Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:

Dear Plasma development team, dear VDG,
the official deadline for the Plasma logo contest has passed 
yesterday.
We have five entries into the contest, with one actually consisting of 
five
different mash-ups and modifications of the other entries, and one 
being

Plasma's current logo.
You can find all the proposals here:
https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=285=133836
I think we have quite a good selection here, and hope that we can find 
something

here which we can agree on.
In the contest thread, I promised a jury consisting of VDG members and 
Plasma

team members.
Now I've decided that since the whole Plasma team has to be able to 
identify
themselves with the logo, and all VDG members should have the 
possibility to
chip in as well, everyone who participates in the discussion is part 
of the jury.
There won't be a voting process. Either we can agree on a logo, or 
everything
stays like it is (the official Plasma logo still being what we have 
now, and the

K logo being used for the launchers).
I'd give us a discussion period until Sunday, unless a clear agreement 
can be

reached before that.
Please refer to the logo proposals by the creator's forum name 
(remember that
our current logo is Uri's, not mine ;) ), and for Ken's just say e.g. 
"Ken's

fourth logo".
Happy discussions, here is to us finding a logo we can all (at least 
more or

less) identify with!

Thomas


Thank you. I fixed it because it missed one of mine. Now my submissions 
are "submission 1 version 1,2,3,4" (it's the same logo with gear and 
arrow in different positions).


-- Alessandro Longo

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Marco Martin]

On Monday 22 August 2016, Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> As per the Plasma team's request, I have now created a Wiki page with all
> submissions as presented in the forum, and - where available - how they
> would look in a Panel.
> You can find that page here:
> https://community.kde.org/KDE_Visual_Design_Group/Plasma_Logo_Contest
> Each submission now has a number which should be referenced in the
> discussion. It would be even nicer to have a completely standardized
> presentation, but none of us had the combination of time and skills
> necessary to create that. I hope this helps, anyway.

I'll give a quick feedback on each one of them
1: i find it a bit too generic, with the > iside is better, but a gear reminds 
me too much of "options", "configure" or stuff like that
2: as I said before, the concept is neat but is really too generic, can't 
really get behind this one as is now
3: don't like it, sorry :/
4: surprisingly all in all, is probably still the one that i like more as-is 
(I still find it an issue of looking like 4 disjointed things)
5: missing from wiki, i like it but may be a bit too complicated (and reminds 
me the konqueror icon)
6: probably the best one as is now
7: missing from wiki, don't like it much
8: better than 2, but as is now, i find a bit disturbing that the outline of 
the planet and the > have very different weights (so makes it obvious that's 2 
things patched up), if the > was as slim as the outline, we could have a 
winner there
9: missing from wiki, don't like it much
10: looks like it was 1, but with a rendering glitch :/
11: don't like it much, has the same problems as a gear has, but even more 
complicated, looking disjointed
12: don't like it, sorry :/
13: don't like it, sorry :/


-- 
Marco Martin

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Thomas Pfeiffer]

As per the Plasma team's request, I have now created a Wiki page with all 
submissions as presented in the forum, and - where available - how they would 
look in a Panel.

You can find that page here:
https://community.kde.org/KDE_Visual_Design_Group/Plasma_Logo_Contest
Each submission now has a number which should be referenced in the discussion.
It would be even nicer to have a completely standardized presentation, but none 
of us had the combination of time and skills necessary to create that.

I hope this helps, anyway.
Cheers,
Thomas


On 25.07.2016 20:54, Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:

Dear Plasma development team, dear VDG,
the official deadline for the Plasma logo contest has passed yesterday.
We have five entries into the contest, with one actually consisting of five
different mash-ups and modifications of the other entries, and one being
Plasma's current logo.
You can find all the proposals here:
https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=285=133836
I think we have quite a good selection here, and hope that we can find something
here which we can agree on.
In the contest thread, I promised a jury consisting of VDG members and Plasma
team members.
Now I've decided that since the whole Plasma team has to be able to identify
themselves with the logo, and all VDG members should have the possibility to
chip in as well, everyone who participates in the discussion is part of the 
jury.
There won't be a voting process. Either we can agree on a logo, or everything
stays like it is (the official Plasma logo still being what we have now, and the
K logo being used for the launchers).
I'd give us a discussion period until Sunday, unless a clear agreement can be
reached before that.
Please refer to the logo proposals by the creator's forum name (remember that
our current logo is Uri's, not mine ;) ), and for Ken's just say e.g. "Ken's
fourth logo".
Happy discussions, here is to us finding a logo we can all (at least more or
less) identify with!

Thomas

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Alessandro Longo]

Il 19-08-2016 16:19 Olivier Churlaud ha scritto:

Il 11-08-2016 11:37 Ivan Čukić ha scritto:

Hi all,

For anyone interested I've also posted the SVG file (Andreas asked 
for

it):

https://share.kde.org/index.php/s/0HRcGXCt6UCEWxp

Cheers,
Ivan
I updated it with the last version of my logo (posted on Forums) plus 
a

new version: https://share.kde.org/index.php/s/Jo9ADJYOpWsyxIW

In the new version there is a ">" that stands for "shell" and it's in
the current Plasma logo too, a gear like the K logo one that looks 
like
Sun, since Sun is made by plasma and the ">" contribute to make it 
look

like a Sun with a sort of "eclipse" effect.


I'm surprised, because I really like the "eclipse-like" one you added.
I'm surprised specially because I expected to be really cluttered and 
at

the end, I think it plays good and adds a great dynamic.

But honestly I wouldn't be able to choose THE one. Several have good
qualities: it's tough.

Cheers
Olivier

Cheers,



I know what you mean, the submissions are very good but not perfect. I'm 
currently a bit more for this last one with eclipse effect, I like it in 
my panel, but still not sure. I hope in new ideas by the others.


Cheers,

--
Alessandro Longo

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Alessandro Longo]

Il 11-08-2016 11:37 Ivan Čukić ha scritto:

Hi all,

For anyone interested I've also posted the SVG file (Andreas asked for 
it):


https://share.kde.org/index.php/s/0HRcGXCt6UCEWxp

Cheers,
Ivan


I updated it with the last version of my logo (posted on Forums) plus a 
new version: https://share.kde.org/index.php/s/Jo9ADJYOpWsyxIW


In the new version there is a ">" that stands for "shell" and it's in 
the current Plasma logo too, a gear like the K logo one that looks like 
Sun, since Sun is made by plasma and the ">" contribute to make it look 
like a Sun with a sort of "eclipse" effect.


Cheers,

--
Alessandro Longo

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Ivan Čukić]

Hi all,

For anyone interested I've also posted the SVG file (Andreas asked for it):

https://share.kde.org/index.php/s/0HRcGXCt6UCEWxp

Cheers,
Ivan

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Ivan Čukić]

Hi,

When I said that I don't really find any of these fitting as a
launcher icon, I obviously excluded the K-gear logo - was thinking
about the new proposals.

Though, the fact that K-gear looks better than the rest might be
because we are all accustomed to that one. The same goes for the
current Plasma logo, even if it is really off-balance (mind that this
is the original, not the altered one Clemens sent).


Cheers,
Ivan

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[kainz.a]

2016-08-10 23:16 GMT+02:00 Ivan Čukić :

> Hi all,
>
> I've put a few of the ideas on a panel - both on a light theme, and on
> a dark one. Also without any icon background, and on the blue
> rectangle.
>
> It also has the current KDE logo for reference.
>
> https://share.kde.org/index.php/s/b9sMKE3Nl9whJiQ
>
> I'm a bit sad to say that I don't really find any of these fitting as
> a launcher icon.
>
>
I think the current KDE logo (4th line) and the current plasma logo (3rd
line) are quite good in general I like the colored kde logo (8th line)
best.

thanks Ivan

cheers
Andreas

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Ivan Čukić]

Hi all,

I've put a few of the ideas on a panel - both on a light theme, and on
a dark one. Also without any icon background, and on the blue
rectangle.

It also has the current KDE logo for reference.

https://share.kde.org/index.php/s/b9sMKE3Nl9whJiQ

I'm a bit sad to say that I don't really find any of these fitting as
a launcher icon.

Cheers,
Ivan

p.s. If somebody wants to play around, I can post the svg as well.

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Wednesday, August 10, 2016 10:37:07 AM UTC kainz.a wrote:
> as there is no new mail since 2 days how can we find a new logo?
> 
> 1. poll of the existing logos
> 2. irc/hangout meeting with plasma vdg and the icon designers
> 3. git push

I think consensus is that we're lacking an overview, hardly anybody is able to 
tell which options are being discussed.

What we'd need first is an overview (one page / image) of all logos proposed, 
preferably in different contexts (on black / white / in panel / etc.).

Most of the people I talked to lost track of what exactly was being discussed.

Thomas, I think, agreed on making such an overview.

Cheers,
-- 
sebas

http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[kainz.a]

as there is no new mail since 2 days how can we find a new logo?

1. poll of the existing logos
2. irc/hangout meeting with plasma vdg and the icon designers
3. git push

andreas

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Aleix Pol]

On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Andres Betts  wrote:
> Hey Sebas,
>
> Thanks for understanding. As I mentioned before my intention is not
> necessarily that don't change my proposal but that we can create more
> proposals to show variety. We cannot settle just on 2 orignal proposals and
> then merge the two to see what comes out. I am pretty sure there many other
> ways of giving Plasma an identity and I would love to see more.
>
> My thoughts are that we keep on getting proposals, we don't really have a
> deadline and we can probably get many more people to come up with ideas. Art
> contests are generally about original artwork.
>
> It is not about "my way or the highway" but rather, "my way or any other
> highway." Because I am sure that there are more options than just two.
>
> Should we past this and not start an argument by requesting more logo
> proposals? We need to move forward.
>
>
>
> On August 5, 2016 at 7:07:17 AM, Sebastian Kügler (se...@kde.org) wrote:
>>
>> Hi Andres,
>>
>> Sorry it took a few days to reply.
>>
>> On dinsdag 2 augustus 2016 07:45:10 CEST Andres Betts wrote:
>>
>> Let me explain the reasons about changing the logo and what stage this is
>> at. In my personal view, after working for some time on coming up with a
>> new logo proposal, we received a few comments and changes to it that, to
>> me, had no backing. One idea was shared that others wanted my proposal to
>> look closer, or have characteristics from the KDE logo.
>>
>> However, I am not of the preference of changing my proposal and adding
>> more
>> elements to it, because I thought about this long and hard and reduced the
>> proposal to the simplest of forms that conveyed a meaning. Adding elements
>> from the KDE logo, or the last Plasma logo doesn’t seem logical given that
>> the last logo really had no meaning behind it, so there is not much that
>> justifies its presence there. Some might argue that it is also about the
>> public not recognizing the logo and what it belongs to.
>>
>>
>> Well, that's not quite true. Especially the simplified arrow indicated
>> "shell",
>> something Plasma is all about. The three dots are elements for plugins,
>> scripting and (I think) containments. So the elements *do* have a meaning.
>>
>> “Changes” or modifications that happen “after” the contest is over are all
>> about simple edits. I consider my current logo to be in “beta” and only
>> bugs and simple edits could be made. For example, the thickness of a
>> border, or the sizes of the circles. I am not looking to strikingly change
>> or modify the logo I created because I consider it to be near final.
>>
>>
>> That's of course fine. My point was that if we pick a logo, and then
>> change it
>> afterwards, it's not the logo we picked. (I agree, simple edits are fine,
>> but
>> the comments weren't about simple edits, as far as understand.)
>>
>> However, if others want to make proposals that the Plasma team might like
>> better, maybe it is a better thing to create original proposals and not
>> change my proposal to be what you think should be there. If the Plasma
>> team
>> feels that my logo is not what they would like to have, then let’s not
>> modify it and find an original alternative created by different artists.
>>
>>
>> I disagree there. Plasma is a collaborative project, we do things
>> together. My
>> way of the highway is generally not the way we work, and I think it's
>> quite
>> natural to suggest changes, that is how we usually work.
>>
>> I think people may have been confused by you making the logo available
>> under a
>> license that allows changes, so we thought that it's OK to polish it some
>> more. If it isn't, that's also fine, but it explains where this confusion
>> comes
>> from.
>>
>> Personally, I find it unfortunate that you do not want any changes to the
>> logo.
>> I can undestand it, but given its basic design is quite popular, I think
>> it's
>> a shame to ask people not to change it. I respect your choice, however, so
>> I
>> guess that's how it is.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> --
>> sebas
>>
>> Sebastian Kügler • http://vizZzion.org • http://www.kde.org
>>
>

Maybe it would be interesting to have an informal call between Plasma
and you, to see why there's the feeling that something is missing in
the original idea.
Maybe it would be a better way for you to iterate your design in a
direction you're more comfortable with?

Aleix

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Andres Betts]

Hey Sebastian,

Let me explain the reasons about changing the logo and what stage this is
at. In my personal view, after working for some time on coming up with a
new logo proposal, we received a few comments and changes to it that, to
me, had no backing. One idea was shared that others wanted my proposal to
look closer, or have characteristics from the KDE logo.

However, I am not of the preference of changing my proposal and adding more
elements to it, because I thought about this long and hard and reduced the
proposal to the simplest of forms that conveyed a meaning. Adding elements
from the KDE logo, or the last Plasma logo doesn’t seem logical given that
the last logo really had no meaning behind it, so there is not much that
justifies its presence there. Some might argue that it is also about the
public not recognizing the logo and what it belongs to.

“Changes” or modifications that happen “after” the contest is over are all
about simple edits. I consider my current logo to be in “beta” and only
bugs and simple edits could be made. For example, the thickness of a
border, or the sizes of the circles. I am not looking to strikingly change
or modify the logo I created because I consider it to be near final.
However, if others want to make proposals that the Plasma team might like
better, maybe it is a better thing to create original proposals and not
change my proposal to be what you think should be there. If the Plasma team
feels that my logo is not what they would like to have, then let’s not
modify it and find an original alternative created by different artists.




On August 2, 2016 at 8:08:41 AM, Sebastian Kügler (se...@kde.org) wrote:

On dinsdag 2 augustus 2016 14:11:25 CEST Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> On 01.08.2016 15:11, Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> > So, it looks like there are two variants which people are quite fond of,
> > Ken's modifications of Andy's logo (his fourth), and of Alex's logo (his
> > second).
> >
> > The second has the advantage that it has elements of the KDE logo in it
> > and
> > can therefore be associated with KDE most easily,
> > whereas the fourth has a clearer association with a sun, and its
> > simplicity
> > allows for easy adaptation for different contexts while keeping its
> > identity easily recognizable.
> >
> > The disadvantages of the second one are that the gears become a bit
> > muddled
> > in small sizes and it resembles the gear which is often used as a
settings
> > icon, the disadvantage of the fourth is that it vaguely resembles a
> > speech bubble, reminding some people of an IM application logo.
> >
> > The VDG clearly favors Anditosan's logo, so Ken's fourth (which fixes
the
> > problem of being too "generic" as some of the Plasma team members
> > feared) looks like the one which would sit best with both the VDG and
the
> > Plasma team.
> >
> > Therefore I'd like to propose to go with Ken's modification of Andy's
logo
> > (perhaps with one more round of fine-tuning by the VDG before shipping
> > it).
> > Are there any objections to that?
>
> We've just learned that Anditosan does want to see modifications of his
logo
> in the contest. He is open to modifying his logo after the contest if
> needed, but he'd prefer to modify it himself instead of others creating
> mashups.

Why modify it after a contest? That would make the choice rather pointless,
if
it's going to be different aftwards anyway.

Can you ask him to make the changes and send us the result, so we can judge
based on that?

> Therefore, Ken's modification (i.e. his fourth) is out of the question for
> now.
>
> So either we take Andy's original logo (without the > ) and ask for
> modifications in a second iteration afterwards, or we have to take
something
> not based on his logo (for example Ken's second).
>
> What will it be, then?


-- 
sebas

http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org
___
Visual-design mailing list
visual-des...@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/visual-design

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Andres Betts]

Hey Sebas,

Thanks for understanding. As I mentioned before my intention is not
necessarily that don't change my proposal but that we can create more
proposals to show variety. We cannot settle just on 2 orignal proposals and
then merge the two to see what comes out. I am pretty sure there many other
ways of giving Plasma an identity and I would love to see more.

My thoughts are that we keep on getting proposals, we don't really have a
deadline and we can probably get many more people to come up with ideas.
Art contests are generally about original artwork.

It is not about "my way or the highway" but rather, "my way or any other
highway." Because I am sure that there are more options than just two.

Should we past this and not start an argument by requesting more logo
proposals? We need to move forward.



On August 5, 2016 at 7:07:17 AM, Sebastian Kügler (se...@kde.org) wrote:

> Hi Andres,
>
> Sorry it took a few days to reply.
>
> On dinsdag 2 augustus 2016 07:45:10 CEST Andres Betts wrote:
>
> Let me explain the reasons about changing the logo and what stage this is
> at. In my personal view, after working for some time on coming up with a
> new logo proposal, we received a few comments and changes to it that, to
> me, had no backing. One idea was shared that others wanted my proposal to
> look closer, or have characteristics from the KDE logo.
>
> However, I am not of the preference of changing my proposal and adding
> more
> elements to it, because I thought about this long and hard and reduced the
> proposal to the simplest of forms that conveyed a meaning. Adding elements
> from the KDE logo, or the last Plasma logo doesn’t seem logical given that
> the last logo really had no meaning behind it, so there is not much that
> justifies its presence there. Some might argue that it is also about the
> public not recognizing the logo and what it belongs to.
>
>
> Well, that's not quite true. Especially the simplified arrow indicated
> "shell",
> something Plasma is all about. The three dots are elements for plugins,
> scripting and (I think) containments. So the elements *do* have a meaning.
>
> “Changes” or modifications that happen “after” the contest is over are all
> about simple edits. I consider my current logo to be in “beta” and only
> bugs and simple edits could be made. For example, the thickness of a
> border, or the sizes of the circles. I am not looking to strikingly change
> or modify the logo I created because I consider it to be near final.
>
>
> That's of course fine. My point was that if we pick a logo, and then
> change it
> afterwards, it's not the logo we picked. (I agree, simple edits are fine,
> but
> the comments weren't about simple edits, as far as understand.)
>
> However, if others want to make proposals that the Plasma team might like
> better, maybe it is a better thing to create original proposals and not
> change my proposal to be what you think should be there. If the Plasma
> team
> feels that my logo is not what they would like to have, then let’s not
> modify it and find an original alternative created by different artists.
>
>
> I disagree there. Plasma is a collaborative project, we do things
> together. My
> way of the highway is generally not the way we work, and I think it's
> quite
> natural to suggest changes, that is how we usually work.
>
> I think people may have been confused by you making the logo available
> under a
> license that allows changes, so we thought that it's OK to polish it some
> more. If it isn't, that's also fine, but it explains where this confusion
> comes
> from.
>
> Personally, I find it unfortunate that you do not want any changes to the
> logo.
> I can undestand it, but given its basic design is quite popular, I think
> it's
> a shame to ask people not to change it. I respect your choice, however, so
> I
> guess that's how it is.
>
> Cheers,
> --
> sebas
>
> Sebastian Kügler • http://vizZzion.org • http://www.kde.org
>
>

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Marco Martin]

On Sunday 07 August 2016, Clemens Toennies wrote:
> 2016-08-07 8:19 GMT+02:00 Ivan Čukić https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel>>:
> >//>/Do you have screenshots? />//>/Cheers, />/Ivan /
> 
> Here is some variant from Uris logo to be used as startbutton:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/4eyofwx1kiqyq9g/plasma-icons-uri.png?dl=0

having it in a square as part of the logo surrounding it actually alleviates 
(tought not completely solves) one that i think is the biggest problem of this 
one, it brings it from 4 disjointed elements to an overall single shape (a 
charateristic that i find quite important in a logo)


-- 
Marco Martin

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Marco Martin]

On Tuesday 02 August 2016, Ken Vermette wrote:
> I don't mean to be "that guy", but he submitted his logo under the LGPLv3,
> signalling that everyone has the right to modify his work. I'm not saying
> this because I have a horse in this race, I'm saying it because, frankly,
> the idea that we "aren't allowed" to collaborate and remix artwork in an
> open-source project is extremely distasteful to our core values... The idea
> that we would be beholden to a single author for every tweak is ridiculous.

Agree, this devalues a bit that entry for me, as i think the unmodified 
version is not quite enough, and modifying it after it has been chosen means 
that the logo that ends up being used is not the one that has been chosen.
perhaps the rules should have stated explicitly that this was going to be an 
iterative process.

-- 
Marco Martin

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Clemens Toennies]

2016-08-07 8:19 GMT+02:00 Ivan Čukić https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel>>:

>//>/Do you have screenshots? />//>/Cheers, />/Ivan /


Here is some variant from Uris logo to be used as startbutton:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4eyofwx1kiqyq9g/plasma-icons-uri.png?dl=0

Note this mod is not done by Uri (nor me), and I personally would think
the biggest circle should be placed a bit lower again.
Still find it fresh and good looking as a startbutton.

Greetings, Clemens.

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[kainz.a]

when I have time I can do it for all logos.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1642456/VDG/KF5/plasma-logo.png
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1642456/VDG/KF5/plasmaLogoUri.png

cheers
Andreas

2016-08-07 8:19 GMT+02:00 Ivan Čukić :

> Andreas,
>
> Do you have screenshots?
>
> Cheers,
> Ivan
>

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Ivan Čukić]

Andreas,

Do you have screenshots?

Cheers,
Ivan

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[kainz.a]

Hi

I tested the different logo examples as kicker icon in the panel and best
fit's the "old" plasma icon from uri.

2016-08-05 15:40 GMT+02:00 Andres Betts :

> Hey Sebas,
>
> Thanks for understanding. As I mentioned before my intention is not
> necessarily that don't change my proposal but that we can create more
> proposals to show variety. We cannot settle just on 2 orignal proposals and
> then merge the two to see what comes out. I am pretty sure there many other
> ways of giving Plasma an identity and I would love to see more.
>
> My thoughts are that we keep on getting proposals, we don't really have a
> deadline and we can probably get many more people to come up with ideas.
> Art contests are generally about original artwork.
>
> It is not about "my way or the highway" but rather, "my way or any other
> highway." Because I am sure that there are more options than just two.
>
> Should we past this and not start an argument by requesting more logo
> proposals? We need to move forward.
>
>
>
> On August 5, 2016 at 7:07:17 AM, Sebastian Kügler (se...@kde.org) wrote:
>
>> Hi Andres,
>>
>> Sorry it took a few days to reply.
>>
>> On dinsdag 2 augustus 2016 07:45:10 CEST Andres Betts wrote:
>>
>> Let me explain the reasons about changing the logo and what stage this is
>> at. In my personal view, after working for some time on coming up with a
>> new logo proposal, we received a few comments and changes to it that, to
>> me, had no backing. One idea was shared that others wanted my proposal to
>> look closer, or have characteristics from the KDE logo.
>>
>> However, I am not of the preference of changing my proposal and adding
>> more
>> elements to it, because I thought about this long and hard and reduced
>> the
>> proposal to the simplest of forms that conveyed a meaning. Adding
>> elements
>> from the KDE logo, or the last Plasma logo doesn’t seem logical given
>> that
>> the last logo really had no meaning behind it, so there is not much that
>> justifies its presence there. Some might argue that it is also about the
>> public not recognizing the logo and what it belongs to.
>>
>>
>> Well, that's not quite true. Especially the simplified arrow indicated
>> "shell",
>> something Plasma is all about. The three dots are elements for plugins,
>> scripting and (I think) containments. So the elements *do* have a
>> meaning.
>>
>> “Changes” or modifications that happen “after” the contest is over are
>> all
>> about simple edits. I consider my current logo to be in “beta” and only
>> bugs and simple edits could be made. For example, the thickness of a
>> border, or the sizes of the circles. I am not looking to strikingly
>> change
>> or modify the logo I created because I consider it to be near final.
>>
>>
>> That's of course fine. My point was that if we pick a logo, and then
>> change it
>> afterwards, it's not the logo we picked. (I agree, simple edits are fine,
>> but
>> the comments weren't about simple edits, as far as understand.)
>>
>> However, if others want to make proposals that the Plasma team might like
>> better, maybe it is a better thing to create original proposals and not
>> change my proposal to be what you think should be there. If the Plasma
>> team
>> feels that my logo is not what they would like to have, then let’s not
>> modify it and find an original alternative created by different artists.
>>
>>
>> I disagree there. Plasma is a collaborative project, we do things
>> together. My
>> way of the highway is generally not the way we work, and I think it's
>> quite
>> natural to suggest changes, that is how we usually work.
>>
>> I think people may have been confused by you making the logo available
>> under a
>> license that allows changes, so we thought that it's OK to polish it some
>> more. If it isn't, that's also fine, but it explains where this confusion
>> comes
>> from.
>>
>> Personally, I find it unfortunate that you do not want any changes to the
>> logo.
>> I can undestand it, but given its basic design is quite popular, I think
>> it's
>> a shame to ask people not to change it. I respect your choice, however,
>> so I
>> guess that's how it is.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> --
>> sebas
>>
>> Sebastian Kügler • http://vizZzion.org • http://www.kde.org
>>
>>
> ___
> Visual-design mailing list
> visual-des...@kde.org
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/visual-design
>
>

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Sebastian Kügler]

Hi Andres,

Sorry it took a few days to reply.

On dinsdag 2 augustus 2016 07:45:10 CEST Andres Betts wrote:
> Let me explain the reasons about changing the logo and what stage this is
> at. In my personal view, after working for some time on coming up with a
> new logo proposal, we received a few comments and changes to it that, to
> me, had no backing. One idea was shared that others wanted my proposal to
> look closer, or have characteristics from the KDE logo.
> 
> However, I am not of the preference of changing my proposal and adding more
> elements to it, because I thought about this long and hard and reduced the
> proposal to the simplest of forms that conveyed a meaning. Adding elements
> from the KDE logo, or the last Plasma logo doesn’t seem logical given that
> the last logo really had no meaning behind it, so there is not much that
> justifies its presence there. Some might argue that it is also about the
> public not recognizing the logo and what it belongs to.

Well, that's not quite true. Especially the simplified arrow indicated 
"shell", 
something Plasma is all about. The three dots are elements for plugins, 
scripting and (I think) containments. So the elements *do* have a meaning.

> “Changes” or modifications that happen “after” the contest is over are all
> about simple edits. I consider my current logo to be in “beta” and only
> bugs and simple edits could be made. For example, the thickness of a
> border, or the sizes of the circles. I am not looking to strikingly change
> or modify the logo I created because I consider it to be near final.

That's of course fine. My point was that if we pick a logo, and then change it 
afterwards, it's not the logo we picked. (I agree, simple edits are fine, but 
the comments weren't about simple edits, as far as understand.)

> However, if others want to make proposals that the Plasma team might like
> better, maybe it is a better thing to create original proposals and not
> change my proposal to be what you think should be there. If the Plasma team
> feels that my logo is not what they would like to have, then let’s not
> modify it and find an original alternative created by different artists.

I disagree there. Plasma is a collaborative project, we do things together. My 
way of the highway is generally not the way we work, and I think it's quite 
natural to suggest changes, that is how we usually work.

I think people may have been confused by you making the logo available under a 
license that allows changes, so we thought that it's OK to polish it some 
more. If it isn't, that's also fine, but it explains where this confusion 
comes 
from.

Personally, I find it unfortunate that you do not want any changes to the 
logo. 
I can undestand it, but given its basic design is quite popular, I think it's 
a shame to ask people not to change it. I respect your choice, however, so I 
guess that's how it is.

Cheers,
-- 
sebas

Sebastian Kügler•http://vizZzion.org•http://www.kde.org

___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Thomas Pfeiffer]

On 02.08.2016 16:31, Ken Vermette wrote:
I don't mean to be "that guy", but he submitted his logo under the LGPLv3, 
signalling that everyone has the right to modify his work. I'm not saying this 
because I have a horse in this race, I'm saying it because, frankly, the idea 
that we "aren't allowed" to collaborate and remix artwork in an open-source 
project is extremely distasteful to our core values... The idea that we would 
be beholden to a single author for every tweak is ridiculous.


You are right that technically there is no obligation at all to ask any contest 
participant for permission to reuse their work since LGPLv3 was explicitly 
stated as requirement for participation.


Even then, the "rule" in the original thread causing this mess wasn't even 
about permission - it was about "originality". If we blindly followed the rule 
to the letter no collaborative or derivative effort by anyone is allowed - 
which is Monty Python levels of ridiculous.


With all due respect to Anditosan, I think he created a great starting point, 
but the idea that he would stint not just my remix but the work of others is 
disappointing - as a member of the VDG I would have hoped he would have 
actively encouraged collaboration and community values... Barring that, 
however, I don't believe we aren't beholden to his will on this, by posting 
his work in that thread he submitted it for modification and re-use under a 
permissive licence. No matter if the logo derived from his work, my work, or 
anyone else's we should simply choose the best logo instead of settling 
because someone in the chain doesn't want their work touched.




So, the VDG has stated their opinion on the proposals, now we should let the 
Plasma team decide which one to take, regardless of who gave or did not give 
permission for what (as Ken is right, that does not actually matter).


The VDG will accept whatever the Plasma team chooses.

Cheers,
Thomas
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Ivan Čukić]

Just for completeness - Andy's response:

> Hey Ivan, thanks for asking. At this time, I want to keep that logo as is,
> without drastic modifications. Maybe one can make the argument that
> including more elements has a background and a reason. But at this
> point, I want to keep this logo the same. I am open to making drastic
> changes in the future but not right now. I in fact considered many of the
> different variations that have been proposed here even before I posted
> the logo and I was never happy enough with the results.

[1] https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=285=133836
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Ivan Čukić]

Thomas:

> The VDG is fine with his proposal as is, but the Plasma team did
> not seem to 100% happy with it.

As far as I'm concerned, 'not 100% happy' is an understatement. It has
nice visuals, but it is not a brand, nor is it recognizable.


Ken:

> With all due respect to Anditosan, I think he created a great starting
> point, but the idea that he would stint not just my remix but the work
> of others is disappointing

+1


Cheers,
Ivan
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Ken Vermette]

I don't mean to be "that guy", but he submitted his logo under the LGPLv3,
signalling that everyone has the right to modify his work. I'm not saying
this because I have a horse in this race, I'm saying it because, frankly,
the idea that we "aren't allowed" to collaborate and remix artwork in an
open-source project is extremely distasteful to our core values... The idea
that we would be beholden to a single author for every tweak is ridiculous.

Even then, the "rule" in the original thread causing this mess wasn't even
about permission - it was about "originality". If we blindly followed the
rule to the letter no collaborative or derivative effort by anyone is
allowed - which is Monty Python levels of ridiculous.

With all due respect to Anditosan, I think he created a great starting
point, but the idea that he would stint not just my remix but the work of
others is disappointing - as a member of the VDG I would have hoped he
would have actively encouraged collaboration and community values...
Barring that, however, I don't believe we aren't beholden to his will on
this, by posting his work in that thread he submitted it for modification
and re-use under a permissive licence. No matter if the logo derived from
his work, my work, or anyone else's we should simply choose the best logo
instead of settling because someone in the chain doesn't want their work
touched.

On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 10:08 AM, Sebastian Kügler  wrote:

> On dinsdag 2 augustus 2016 14:11:25 CEST Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> > On 01.08.2016 15:11, Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> > > So, it looks like there are two variants which people are quite fond
> of,
> > > Ken's modifications of Andy's logo (his fourth), and of Alex's logo
> (his
> > > second).
> > >
> > > The second has the advantage that it has elements of the KDE logo in it
> > > and
> > > can therefore be associated with KDE most easily,
> > > whereas the fourth has a clearer association with a sun, and its
> > > simplicity
> > > allows for easy adaptation for different contexts while keeping its
> > > identity easily recognizable.
> > >
> > > The disadvantages of the second one are that the gears become a bit
> > > muddled
> > > in small sizes and it resembles the gear which is often used as a
> settings
> > > icon, the disadvantage of the fourth is that it vaguely resembles a
> > > speech bubble, reminding some people of an IM application logo.
> > >
> > > The VDG clearly favors Anditosan's logo, so Ken's fourth (which fixes
> the
> > > problem of being too "generic" as some of the Plasma team members
> > > feared) looks like the one which would sit best with both the VDG and
> the
> > > Plasma team.
> > >
> > > Therefore I'd like to propose to go with Ken's modification of Andy's
> logo
> > > (perhaps with one more round of fine-tuning by the VDG before shipping
> > > it).
> > > Are there any objections to that?
> >
> > We've just learned that Anditosan does want to see modifications of his
> logo
> > in  the contest. He is open to modifying his logo after the contest if
> > needed, but he'd prefer to modify it himself instead of others creating
> > mashups.
>
> Why modify it after a contest? That would make the choice rather
> pointless, if
> it's going to be different aftwards anyway.
>
> Can you ask him to make the changes and send us the result, so we can judge
> based on that?
>
> > Therefore, Ken's modification (i.e. his fourth) is out of the question
> for
> > now.
> >
> > So either we take Andy's original logo (without the > ) and ask for
> > modifications in a second iteration afterwards, or we have to take
> something
> > not  based on his logo (for example Ken's second).
> >
> > What will it be, then?
>
>
> --
> sebas
>
> http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org
> ___
> Plasma-devel mailing list
> Plasma-devel@kde.org
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
>
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Thomas Pfeiffer]

On 02.08.2016 16:08, Sebastian Kügler wrote:


Why modify it after a contest? That would make the choice rather pointless, if
it's going to be different aftwards anyway.

Can you ask him to make the changes and send us the result, so we can judge
based on that?


Sure. So what changes would the Plasma team want?
The VDG is fine with his proposal as is, but the Plasma team did not seem to 
100% happy with it.

___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Ivan Čukić]

@Sebas

We asked him whether he would allow changes to his proposal - mainly
since we are here mostly considering Ken's modifications of Alex's and
his work.* He seems not to like the idea of anyone altering his work -
that he considered different modifications already, but stayed with
the proposed one.

So, I guess, this leaves us with either his original proposal, or Alex+Ken one.

Cheers,
Ivan

* This was Thomas' post:

> The contest description says
> "It has to be the author's original work", which Ken's mashups are in
> violation of. However, Alex L especially stated that edits of his proposal
> are welcome, so those are fine.
>
> As far as the modifications of anditosan's logo are concerned: Andy,
> would you be okay with modifications of your work to enter the contest?

(though, I do not consider Ken's proposals to be violations... but
that is another matter)
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Sebastian Kügler]

On dinsdag 2 augustus 2016 14:11:25 CEST Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> On 01.08.2016 15:11, Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> > So, it looks like there are two variants which people are quite fond of,
> > Ken's modifications of Andy's logo (his fourth), and of Alex's logo (his
> > second).
> > 
> > The second has the advantage that it has elements of the KDE logo in it
> > and
> > can therefore be associated with KDE most easily,
> > whereas the fourth has a clearer association with a sun, and its
> > simplicity
> > allows for easy adaptation for different contexts while keeping its
> > identity easily recognizable.
> > 
> > The disadvantages of the second one are that the gears become a bit
> > muddled
> > in small sizes and it resembles the gear which is often used as a settings
> > icon, the disadvantage of the fourth is that it vaguely resembles a
> > speech bubble, reminding some people of an IM application logo.
> > 
> > The VDG clearly favors Anditosan's logo, so Ken's fourth (which fixes the
> > problem of being too "generic" as some of the Plasma team members
> > feared) looks like the one which would sit best with both the VDG and the
> > Plasma team.
> > 
> > Therefore I'd like to propose to go with Ken's modification of Andy's logo
> > (perhaps with one more round of fine-tuning by the VDG before shipping
> > it).
> > Are there any objections to that?
> 
> We've just learned that Anditosan does want to see modifications of his logo
> in  the contest. He is open to modifying his logo after the contest if
> needed, but he'd prefer to modify it himself instead of others creating
> mashups.

Why modify it after a contest? That would make the choice rather pointless, if 
it's going to be different aftwards anyway.

Can you ask him to make the changes and send us the result, so we can judge 
based on that?

> Therefore, Ken's modification (i.e. his fourth) is out of the question for
> now.
> 
> So either we take Andy's original logo (without the > ) and ask for 
> modifications in a second iteration afterwards, or we have to take something
> not  based on his logo (for example Ken's second).
> 
> What will it be, then?


-- 
sebas

http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Thomas Pfeiffer]

On 01.08.2016 15:11, Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:


So, it looks like there are two variants which people are quite fond of,
Ken's modifications of Andy's logo (his fourth), and of Alex's logo (his 
second).

The second has the advantage that it has elements of the KDE logo in it and
can therefore be associated with KDE most easily,
whereas the fourth has a clearer association with a sun, and its simplicity
allows for easy adaptation for different contexts while keeping its identity
easily recognizable.

The disadvantages of the second one are that the gears become a bit muddled
in small sizes and it resembles the gear which is often used as a settings icon,
the disadvantage of the fourth is that it vaguely resembles a speech bubble,
reminding some people of an IM application logo.

The VDG clearly favors Anditosan's logo, so Ken's fourth (which fixes the
problem of being too "generic" as some of the Plasma team members
feared) looks like the one which would sit best with both the VDG and the
Plasma team.

Therefore I'd like to propose to go with Ken's modification of Andy's logo
(perhaps with one more round of fine-tuning by the VDG before shipping it).
Are there any objections to that?


We've just learned that Anditosan does want to see modifications of his logo in 
the contest. He is open to modifying his logo after the contest if needed, but 
he'd prefer to modify it himself instead of others creating mashups.


Therefore, Ken's modification (i.e. his fourth) is out of the question for now.

So either we take Andy's original logo (without the > ) and ask for 
modifications in a second iteration afterwards, or we have to take something not 
based on his logo (for example Ken's second).


What will it be, then?
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Thomas Pfeiffer]

On 01.08.2016 15:16, Marco Martin wrote:

On Monday 01 August 2016, Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:

But I don't give it a +1 on the 'bridge to the current logo' since
/that/ Plasma logo is largely unknown (I'd give it +0.5 on that note -
while v2 gets both +0.5 because of the recognizable KDE logo, and +0.5
for the current plasma 5 logo). :)

Cheers,
Ivan

So, it looks like there are two variants which people are quite fond of,
Ken's modifications of Andy's logo (his fourth), and of Alex's logo (his
second).

hmm, I'm a bit surprised, as I tought the leading ones so far were ken's
second and the variant to anditosan (ken's fourth i guess)


Just to be clear: We're talking about the same ones ;)


___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Marco Martin]

On Monday 01 August 2016, Marco Martin wrote:
> > So, it looks like there are two variants which people are quite fond of,
> > Ken's modifications of Andy's logo (his fourth), and of Alex's logo (his
> > second).
> 
> hmm, I'm a bit surprised, as I tought the leading ones so far were ken's
> second and the variant to anditosan (ken's fourth i guess)

... because i should learn how to read, yes, those are exactly those i had in 
mind :p

-- 
Marco Martin
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Ivan Čukić]

> The disadvantages of the second one are that the gears become a bit
> muddled in small sizes and it resembles the gear which is often used
> as a settings icon,

This 'disadvantage' is a bit artificial.

I agree the gears would not be visible on small icon sizes. But small
icons do not need to contain the whole logo (like with everything
else, small icons are separately designed). On the small icons, we
could easily go for just '>'

Anditosan's logo would be a circle with a small corner smudge on low
resolutions. (or a '>' in a circle if we go for Ken's variant)

I do not think we should make a choice based on what looks good at
16x16px. It is a project logo first, not an icon.

Cheers,
Ivan
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Marco Martin]

On Monday 01 August 2016, Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> > But I don't give it a +1 on the 'bridge to the current logo' since
> > /that/ Plasma logo is largely unknown (I'd give it +0.5 on that note -
> > while v2 gets both +0.5 because of the recognizable KDE logo, and +0.5
> > for the current plasma 5 logo). :)
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Ivan
> 
> So, it looks like there are two variants which people are quite fond of,
> Ken's modifications of Andy's logo (his fourth), and of Alex's logo (his
> second).

hmm, I'm a bit surprised, as I tought the leading ones so far were ken's 
second and the variant to anditosan (ken's fourth i guess)

-- 
Marco Martin
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Thomas Pfeiffer]

On 26.07.2016 18:21, Ivan Čukić wrote:

On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 4:01 PM, Dan Leinir Turthra Jensen
 wrote:

On Tuesday, 26 July 2016 15:52:41 BST Sebastian Kügler wrote:

bridge to the current logo.

I quite like that one indeed.

Quite keen on that one, yes :)

It is one of my other favs, behind alex-kver-v2.

But I don't give it a +1 on the 'bridge to the current logo' since
/that/ Plasma logo is largely unknown (I'd give it +0.5 on that note -
while v2 gets both +0.5 because of the recognizable KDE logo, and +0.5
for the current plasma 5 logo). :)

Cheers,
Ivan

So, it looks like there are two variants which people are quite fond of,
Ken's modifications of Andy's logo (his fourth), and of Alex's logo (his 
second).

The second has the advantage that it has elements of the KDE logo in it and
can therefore be associated with KDE most easily,
whereas the fourth has a clearer association with a sun, and its simplicity
allows for easy adaptation for different contexts while keeping its identity
easily recognizable.

The disadvantages of the second one are that the gears become a bit muddled
in small sizes and it resembles the gear which is often used as a settings icon,
the disadvantage of the fourth is that it vaguely resembles a speech bubble,
reminding some people of an IM application logo.

The VDG clearly favors Anditosan's logo, so Ken's fourth (which fixes the
problem of being too "generic" as some of the Plasma team members
feared) looks like the one which would sit best with both the VDG and the
Plasma team.

Therefore I'd like to propose to go with Ken's modification of Andy's logo
(perhaps with one more round of fine-tuning by the VDG before shipping it).
Are there any objections to that?

Cheers,
Thomas




___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Olivier Churlaud]

Ivan a écrit :

The one that stands out for me is one of the Kver's mesh-ups. The one
with a part of the current plasma logo '>' inside two pieces of a
gear.

The reason I find that one interesting is that we could use a part of
it for the launcher icon if we wanted - just the '>'.

We could include the gear part, or two. It is open to modification.
The first thing that came to me was that we could easily make t-shirts
for a conference where the 'bumps' on the top gear would be
recognizable buildings of the city we are in.

I like the idea!

I really think the 4th of Ken look like a IM logo. It's the very first 
thing I think about when I see it.


Olivier
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Philipp Stefan]

After some consideration I think I would pick anditosan's proposal. With 
my second being Kver's fourth icon.

My reasoning is the following:
- It's so simple a child could draw it
- It's easily recognizable without being noisy
- It's simplicity allows both flexibility and works well at different sizes

All of the above fits Ken's 4th too. Now since I implicitly rejected the 
others I want to give some feedback on them too, as I sadly didn't have 
time to do so on the forum.


Quiralta's proposal is simple and uses a metaphor potential users are 
very familiar with. However, it appears noisy. That mostly stems from 3 
things:

- there are overlaps
- the overlaps have different sizes
- it shows a line of action
Now one can argue the first two point for anditosan's proposal too, 
however, in combination these really stand out. For anyone who wants to 
draw comics/mangas/anything involving moving objects one will eventually 
find the "line of action" technique¹. Basically, we are able to infer 
that objects/persons in picture/drawing have a motion to them because 
one can draw an imaginary line through the object around which the 
object[s] are structured. The more the line is bent, the more dramatic 
the movement is.


AlexL's proposal probably fits best to the KDE logo and it is simply and 
easily recognizable. However, it also suffers from the same problems as 
the K-logo. The details of the gear are lost on smaller sizes, and width 
at the base of the teeth is much bigger than the line connecting the 
actual teeth with each other. Which especially at smaller sizes looks 
muddled.
Then there's also the problem that the cog icon, while abstract, is not 
abstract enough. It's an often use metaphor or settings/mechanism etc. 
Combining the arrow with the cog does not manage to separate it from the 
settings metaphor. So the unknowing will most likely search for meaning 
in the cog metaphor first before exploring other possibilities when 
trying to interpret the icon. Which leads to it looking strange, as on 
the one hand it has a clear metaphor, while inducing ambiguity about its 
actual meaning. Contrast that with anditosan's icon, which is abstract 
enough to not immediately associate it with a common metaphor, while not 
being completely foreign.
And last but not least the cog is quite harsh. It's associated with 
industry, manual labour, and – more abstract – thinking, analysis and 
work. While the round shapes for anditosan's proposal are more 
humanizing, soft and overall more inviting and friendlier.


With all that being said: I would caution against on choosing the one™ 
solution too quickly. I think Ken has shown nicely that anditosan's 
proposal is worthy of further investigation. We ought to flash out its 
usage in different scenarios (think different styles, sizes, contrasts 
etc.), so I would propose to hold a second round, so to speak where we 
investigate the concept further to finalize it.


[1] An example from a carton visualizing the concept 
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1250/2135/1600/LofA.jpg

One can apply the same for real world situations.

Am 25.07.2016 um 20:54 schrieb Thomas Pfeiffer:

Dear Plasma development team, dear VDG,
the official deadline for the Plasma logo contest has passed yesterday.
We have five entries into the contest, with one actually consisting of 
five different mash-ups and modifications of the other entries, and 
one being Plasma's current logo.

You can find all the proposals here:
https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=285=133836
I think we have quite a good selection here, and hope that we can find 
something here which we can agree on.
In the contest thread, I promised a jury consisting of VDG members and 
Plasma team members.
Now I've decided that since the whole Plasma team has to be able to 
identify themselves with the logo, and all VDG members should have the 
possibility to chip in as well, everyone who participates in the 
discussion is part of the jury.
There won't be a voting process. Either we can agree on a logo, or 
everything stays like it is (the official Plasma logo still being what 
we have now, and the K logo being used for the launchers).
I'd give us a discussion period until Sunday, unless a clear agreement 
can be reached before that.
Please refer to the logo proposals by the creator's forum name 
(remember that our current logo is Uri's, not mine ;) ), and for Ken's 
just say e.g. "Ken's fourth logo".
Happy discussions, here is to us finding a logo we can all (at least 
more or less) identify with!


Thomas
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel


___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Ivan Čukić]

On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 4:01 PM, Dan Leinir Turthra Jensen
 wrote:
> On Tuesday, 26 July 2016 15:52:41 BST Sebastian Kügler wrote:
>> > bridge to the current logo.
>>
>> I quite like that one indeed.
>
> Quite keen on that one, yes :)

It is one of my other favs, behind alex-kver-v2.

But I don't give it a +1 on the 'bridge to the current logo' since
/that/ Plasma logo is largely unknown (I'd give it +0.5 on that note -
while v2 gets both +0.5 because of the recognizable KDE logo, and +0.5
for the current plasma 5 logo). :)

Cheers,
Ivan
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Dan Leinir Turthra Jensen]

On Tuesday, 26 July 2016 15:52:41 BST Sebastian Kügler wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2016 2:54:26 PM CEST Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> > On 26.07.2016 14:03, Marco Martin wrote:
> > > On Tuesday 26 July 2016 12:57:04 kainz.a wrote:
> > >> I'm a fan of anditosan circle logo,
> > >> 
> > >> cause it fit's in small size as an icon the breeze icon theme (thin 1px
> > >> elements) AND it fit's as a logo in larger size like anditosan show
> > >> with
> > >> the logo on different background.
> > >> 
> > >> from the semantic point of view the circle logo show best what the word
> > >> plasma mean.
> > > 
> > > I kind of like it as is more smoother than the harsh usual gear.
> > > however, I'm quite concerned that it looks very, very generic, not
> > > really
> > > much recognizable
> > 
> > How about Ken's fourth suggestion (Anditosan's plus the > )?
> > That already makes it much more recognizable to me, and it would be a nice
> > bridge to the current logo.
> 
> I quite like that one indeed.

  Quite keen on that one, yes :)

-- 
..dan / leinir..
http://leinir.dk/
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Sebastian Kügler]

On Tuesday, July 26, 2016 2:54:26 PM CEST Thomas Pfeiffer wrote:
> On 26.07.2016 14:03, Marco Martin wrote:
> > On Tuesday 26 July 2016 12:57:04 kainz.a wrote:
> >> I'm a fan of anditosan circle logo,
> >> 
> >> cause it fit's in small size as an icon the breeze icon theme (thin 1px
> >> elements) AND it fit's as a logo in larger size like anditosan show with
> >> the logo on different background.
> >> 
> >> from the semantic point of view the circle logo show best what the word
> >> plasma mean.
> > 
> > I kind of like it as is more smoother than the harsh usual gear.
> > however, I'm quite concerned that it looks very, very generic, not really
> > much recognizable
> 
> How about Ken's fourth suggestion (Anditosan's plus the > )?
> That already makes it much more recognizable to me, and it would be a nice 
> bridge to the current logo.

I quite like that one indeed.
-- 
sebas

http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Marco Martin]

On Tuesday 26 July 2016 15:35:28 Ivan Čukić wrote:
> The one that stands out for me is one of the Kver's mesh-ups. The one
> with a part of the current plasma logo '>' inside two pieces of a
> gear.
> 
> The reason I find that one interesting is that we could use a part of
> it for the launcher icon if we wanted - just the '>'.
> 
yeah, all in all i agree that one seems the best one of the alternatives (not 
just on the prettyness side, but also how functional is in)
-- 
Marco Martin
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Ivan Čukić]

> I kind of like it as is more smoother than the harsh usual gear.
> however, I'm quite concerned that it looks very, very generic, not really much
> recognizable

This is my problem with it as well.

The one that stands out for me is one of the Kver's mesh-ups. The one
with a part of the current plasma logo '>' inside two pieces of a
gear.

The reason I find that one interesting is that we could use a part of
it for the launcher icon if we wanted - just the '>'.

We could include the gear part, or two. It is open to modification.
The first thing that came to me was that we could easily make t-shirts
for a conference where the 'bumps' on the top gear would be
recognizable buildings of the city we are in.

Cheers,
Ivan
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Thomas Pfeiffer]

On 26.07.2016 14:03, Marco Martin wrote:

On Tuesday 26 July 2016 12:57:04 kainz.a wrote:

I'm a fan of anditosan circle logo,

cause it fit's in small size as an icon the breeze icon theme (thin 1px
elements) AND it fit's as a logo in larger size like anditosan show with
the logo on different background.

from the semantic point of view the circle logo show best what the word
plasma mean.


I kind of like it as is more smoother than the harsh usual gear.
however, I'm quite concerned that it looks very, very generic, not really much
recognizable


How about Ken's fourth suggestion (Anditosan's plus the > )?
That already makes it much more recognizable to me, and it would be a nice 
bridge to the current logo.

___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Marco Martin]

On Tuesday 26 July 2016 12:57:04 kainz.a wrote:
> I'm a fan of anditosan circle logo,
> 
> cause it fit's in small size as an icon the breeze icon theme (thin 1px
> elements) AND it fit's as a logo in larger size like anditosan show with
> the logo on different background.
> 
> from the semantic point of view the circle logo show best what the word
> plasma mean.

I kind of like it as is more smoother than the harsh usual gear.
however, I'm quite concerned that it looks very, very generic, not really much 
recognizable

-- 
Marco Martin
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[Thomas Pfeiffer]

On 26.07.2016 12:57, kainz.a wrote:


The idea behind Quiralta logo is nice but in our HIG's is written the color
can't be the only difference.


As he has shown, that logo works in monochrome, too, so this would be no 
problem. The colors are just additional styling, they are not necessary to 
recognize the logo/icon.

___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

Re: Selecting a Plasma logo

[kainz.a]

I'm a fan of anditosan circle logo,

cause it fit's in small size as an icon the breeze icon theme (thin 1px
elements) AND it fit's as a logo in larger size like anditosan show with
the logo on different background.

from the semantic point of view the circle logo show best what the word
plasma mean.

My second vote would be the logo/icon from Uri cause I like it to and it
work also as logo and icon.

The idea behind Quiralta logo is nice but in our HIG's is written the color
can't be the only difference.

+1 for anditosan

2016-07-25 20:54 GMT+02:00 Thomas Pfeiffer :

> Dear Plasma development team, dear VDG,
> the official deadline for the Plasma logo contest has passed yesterday.
> We have five entries into the contest, with one actually consisting of
> five different mash-ups and modifications of the other entries, and one
> being Plasma's current logo.
> You can find all the proposals here:
> https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=285=133836
> I think we have quite a good selection here, and hope that we can find
> something here which we can agree on.
> In the contest thread, I promised a jury consisting of VDG members and
> Plasma team members.
> Now I've decided that since the whole Plasma team has to be able to
> identify themselves with the logo, and all VDG members should have the
> possibility to chip in as well, everyone who participates in the discussion
> is part of the jury.
> There won't be a voting process. Either we can agree on a logo, or
> everything stays like it is (the official Plasma logo still being what we
> have now, and the K logo being used for the launchers).
> I'd give us a discussion period until Sunday, unless a clear agreement can
> be reached before that.
> Please refer to the logo proposals by the creator's forum name (remember
> that our current logo is Uri's, not mine ;) ), and for Ken's just say e.g.
> "Ken's fourth logo".
> Happy discussions, here is to us finding a logo we can all (at least more
> or less) identify with!
>
> Thomas
> ___
> Visual-design mailing list
> visual-des...@kde.org
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/visual-design
>
___
Plasma-devel mailing list
Plasma-devel@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel