Re: [PLUG] Email services
On Tue, 9 Jan 2024, Paul Heinlein wrote: I use SendGrid for outbound mail from madboa.com because most large mail services nowadays don't trust one-off cloud VMs to send mail. (Which isn't stupid, per se, but is frustrating since I have gone out of the way to do all the right things regarding DMARC, DKIM, SPF, etc.) Paul, Thank you. I decided to use an outbound mailing service to contact prospective clients rather than using a bash script and mailx. Anyway, I use smtp.sendgrid.net as my relay host; it requires a (free, for me, since I don't send much mail) API key to use. I won't be sending a lot of mail frequently so my initial impression is that their free account would work for me, too. It mostly works. There are two irritations for me: First, sendgrid must either sell its mailing list or there is a known way to harvest sendgrid user accounts because I get phishing/spam concerning (not from, just concerning) sendgrid with some frequency. I get a lot of sendgrid spam, too, from their other users. They're good at following up on my UCE reports. Second, if you send mail to a non-existent account, you don't get a direct SMTP notice. I've had to log into sendgrid's web interface to inspect and/or empty that list. Until you remove the address from that online list, you can't send mail to it again. (This is an issue for me at work, for reasons I don't care to explain here.) Okay. I think it unlikely I'll trip this non-action, but it's good to know. Much appreciated, Rich
Re: [PLUG] Email services
On Tue, 9 Jan 2024, Rich Shepard wrote: Has anyone here experiences with SendGrid or MailJet? If so, please share them with me, good and bad. I use SendGrid for outbound mail from madboa.com because most large mail services nowadays don't trust one-off cloud VMs to send mail. (Which isn't stupid, per se, but is frustrating since I have gone out of the way to do all the right things regarding DMARC, DKIM, SPF, etc.) Anyway, I use smtp.sendgrid.net as my relay host; it requires a (free, for me, since I don't send much mail) API key to use. It mostly works. There are two irritations for me: First, sendgrid must either sell its mailing list or there is a known way to harvest sendgrid user accounts because I get phishing/spam concerning (not from, just concerning) sendgrid with some frequency. Second, if you send mail to a non-existent account, you don't get a direct SMTP notice. I've had to log into sendgrid's web interface to inspect and/or empty that list. Until you remove the address from that online list, you can't send mail to it again. (This is an issue for me at work, for reasons I don't care to explain here.) -- Paul Heinlein heinl...@madboa.com 45°22'48" N, 122°35'36" W
[PLUG] Email services
Has anyone here experiences with SendGrid or MailJet? If so, please share them with me, good and bad. TIA, Rich
Re: [PLUG] email services supporting IMAP
Hi, Thanks for the feedback regarding IMAP email providers. I will pass along the info to my friend. galen -- Galen Seitz gal...@seitzassoc.com
Re: [PLUG] email services supporting IMAP
I was working at Central Point Software when it acquired Xtree in 1993. I flew down there to assist with the acquisition and returned with a Sparc and Telebit TrailBlazer and a 9600bps dedicated dialup account to UUnet. Somehow Xtree had wrangled that account from UUnet when they were doing their Xtree for Unix (the successor program is here, a fascinating historical read https://www.unixtree.org/ ) and that became CPS's first "Internet" connection as I eventually setup the Microsoft SMTP Gateway software for the original Microsoft Mail since I was the only one who knew anything about The Internet. In the meantime I had been doing UUCP dialup to Agora for several years. I'll have to fire up unixtree and see what it's like, although I don't generally use the GUI on Unixes... Ted -Original Message- From: PLUG On Behalf Of Rich Shepard Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2023 11:52 AM To: Portland Linux/Unix Group Subject: Re: [PLUG] email services supporting IMAP On Sun, 19 Nov 2023, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > Interesting. In 1993 the emerging NSFnet was not permitted to be > connected to commercial entities. You must have had a special > dispensation. That happened in 1995 as I recall... Ted, Well, thinking about timing I'll acknowledge that you're correct. Between 1993 and 1997 I had a dial-up connection to Aracnet (which became SpiritOne before is suddenly shut down), and they provided mail service. In 1997 I defenestrated to Linux and set up my own mail server using postfix using ADSL until I had to find a new ISP. That was Verizon -> Frontier Communications -> Ziply Fiber. I don't recall when I had fiber installed, probably when Frontier was the ISP. Rich
Re: [PLUG] email services supporting IMAP
On Sun, 19 Nov 2023, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: Interesting. In 1993 the emerging NSFnet was not permitted to be connected to commercial entities. You must have had a special dispensation. That happened in 1995 as I recall... Ted, Well, thinking about timing I'll acknowledge that you're correct. Between 1993 and 1997 I had a dial-up connection to Aracnet (which became SpiritOne before is suddenly shut down), and they provided mail service. In 1997 I defenestrated to Linux and set up my own mail server using postfix using ADSL until I had to find a new ISP. That was Verizon -> Frontier Communications -> Ziply Fiber. I don't recall when I had fiber installed, probably when Frontier was the ISP. Rich
Re: [PLUG] email services supporting IMAP
Interesting. In 1993 the emerging NSFnet was not permitted to be connected to commercial entities. You must have had a special dispensation. That happened in 1995 as I recall... Ted -Original Message- From: PLUG On Behalf Of Rich Shepard Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2023 9:45 AM To: Portland Linux/Unix Group Subject: Re: [PLUG] email services supporting IMAP On Sat, 18 Nov 2023, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > Ziply has no restrictions on individuals at home getting business > accounts, Rich. That's true. I've run my business from my house for 30 years and have had a static IP address with all ISPs. Rich
Re: [PLUG] email services supporting IMAP
On Sat, 18 Nov 2023, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: Ziply has no restrictions on individuals at home getting business accounts, Rich. That's true. I've run my business from my house for 30 years and have had a static IP address with all ISPs. Rich
Re: [PLUG] email services supporting IMAP
Ziply has no restrictions on individuals at home getting business accounts, Rich. Another option is get a cheap virtual server on AWS and instead of paying a mail provider, setup a mailserver there. Or on Rapidspace or any other other cloud providers. Or you can get a bit more creative. I have a friend who has a Comcast Xfinity residential account with a Microsoft Exchange server in their house (a leftover from a business they used to own) that they keep going for a new home business they started. They have it setup on a non-standard port for accepting incoming email and outbound relaying of mail through me. They have a free account setup with a dynamic DNS provider and their router is DD-WRT and keeps the dynamic DNS provider apprised of their current IP. My mailserver accepts mail for their domain then routes it to their mailserver's nonstandard port, their mailserver routes outbound mail to my server which relays it out. That way all the antispam stuff is setup and happy and they get to run their own mailserver on a residential account. You of all people Rich should know that there is no way to use technology to block something that someone else can use technology to get around. https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/f4db8a43-0a38-423e-a9d1-aa1c5d989cf0 Ted -Original Message- From: PLUG On Behalf Of Rich Shepard Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2023 8:20 AM To: Portland Linux/Unix Group Subject: Re: [PLUG] email services supporting IMAP On Sat, 18 Nov 2023, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > Or, you can do what I do and get a static IP and run your own mail server. Ted, FWIW, unless Ziply changed their policy only business domains can be assigned a static IP address (for $10/month); they don't support static IP addresses for personal domains. Rich
Re: [PLUG] email services supporting IMAP
On Sat, 18 Nov 2023, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: Or, you can do what I do and get a static IP and run your own mail server. Ted, FWIW, unless Ziply changed their policy only business domains can be assigned a static IP address (for $10/month); they don't support static IP addresses for personal domains. Rich
Re: [PLUG] email services supporting IMAP
Or, you can do what I do and get a static IP and run your own mail server. Ted -Original Message- From: PLUG On Behalf Of Kevin Williams Sent: Friday, November 17, 2023 6:56 PM To: PLUG ; Galen Seitz ; plug Subject: Re: [PLUG] email services supporting IMAP Correction: $20/yr for Runbox, not $20/mo. On Fri, Nov 17, 2023, at 17:32, Kevin Williams wrote: > Hi Galen, > > I myself have been on this journey to migrate my internet accounts registered > using my Gmail address to my own domain, and use multiple aliases in the form > of serv...@mydomain.tld. > > Over the last year and a half, I have moved about 90 accounts from Gmail. > Some sites allow self-service email address change. Others require you submit > a ticket to their support staff. Others, such as Shopify, require you submit > a ticket to them to export your account history (if you want to keep it), > delete your account, create a new account, and re-import the history from > your old account if you don't want to start from scratch. > > This means I'm keeping Gmail around until the process is complete. I also > export my email archive to mbox or maildir, likely using Google take-out. > > I started out at Protonmail. Then I discovered they don't support IMAP unless > I installed their SMTP-to-IMAP bridge app on my local machine. It supports > Linux, but not OpenBSD, which I use more regularly these days. > > So I switched to Fastmail. (But read further. I'm looking to switch > away from them too.) > > If your friend is not sure it's worth it to register and maintain his own > domain name for email and setup the MX, DMARC, SPF and other DNS records at > the email provider (and doesn't care about his personal brand), consider that > using his own domain name makes moving from one paid email provider to the > next much easier. > > Both Protonmail and Fastmail have very good instructions to point your DNS > records at their mail servers. Because I used my own domain name, I was able > to migrate form Protonmail to Fastmail, update all my DNS records, and import > all my previous Protonmail messages to Fastmail in less than an hour. > > More importantly, I didn't have to update my emali address at any of the > sites I had already switched from Gmail. > > And now for my recommendations. > > Domain Registrars: > > - https://dnsimple.com - Well-established registrar with a good > interface and only $6/mo domain hosting fee > - https://porkbun.com - Up-and-coming registrar recommended by Jim Salter of > the 2.5 Admins podcast. I don't know their pricing. > > Fastmail is good. But they only allow up to 600 email aliases, and charge > $5/mo for my first domain, and at least $3/mo for each additional domain (one > domain per sub-account). So I asked on the OpenBSD misc mailing list a few > months ago for suggested email hosting providers. > > - https://migadu.com - Starting at $20/yr for unlimited aliases and unlimited > domains. You cannot register or host a domain with them (that makes moving > away from them easier). Plans are limited by storage space and messages in > and out per day. Bigger plans increase those limits. They have been in > business since 2014. The amounts are realistic for my use case. I plan to > switch my k9w.org domain from Fastmail to Migadu. > > - https://purelymail.com - Flat $10/yr for unlimited aliases and unlimited > domains, again not registered or hosted domains with them. They are in public > Beta but have been going for at least the last few years. I already have > another domain with them and have been very happy with their tools, > documentation, and support staff. > > - https://runbox.com - Norwegian-based offering plans starting at $20/mo for > unlimited aliases and one custom domain, registered/hosted with them or from > another provider. I might try them out with a test domain for the fun of it. > But I could easily us as many domains at either of the two providers above. > > "But Kevin, why are you using two of them at $30/yr rather than just one > service at $10 or $20 per year?" > > Because I want to experience both services over the long term. If I have any > less-technical friends and convince them to try email at their own domain > name, I could offer to save them the email hosting cost and add their domain > to one of the first two options above. > > Realistically, I still have probably another 50 or so accounts to move away > from Gmail. New accounts are at my paid provider straight out of the gate. > > It's a lot of work. But it's worth it to own my email, to pay for it with my > dollars, not pay for it with my personal data. > > Galen, I hope this is helpful to your frien
Re: [PLUG] email services supporting IMAP
Correction: $20/yr for Runbox, not $20/mo. On Fri, Nov 17, 2023, at 17:32, Kevin Williams wrote: > Hi Galen, > > I myself have been on this journey to migrate my internet accounts registered > using my Gmail address to my own domain, and use multiple aliases in the form > of serv...@mydomain.tld. > > Over the last year and a half, I have moved about 90 accounts from Gmail. > Some sites allow self-service email address change. Others require you submit > a ticket to their support staff. Others, such as Shopify, require you submit > a ticket to them to export your account history (if you want to keep it), > delete your account, create a new account, and re-import the history from > your old account if you don't want to start from scratch. > > This means I'm keeping Gmail around until the process is complete. I also > export my email archive to mbox or maildir, likely using Google take-out. > > I started out at Protonmail. Then I discovered they don't support IMAP unless > I installed their SMTP-to-IMAP bridge app on my local machine. It supports > Linux, but not OpenBSD, which I use more regularly these days. > > So I switched to Fastmail. (But read further. I'm looking to switch away from > them too.) > > If your friend is not sure it's worth it to register and maintain his own > domain name for email and setup the MX, DMARC, SPF and other DNS records at > the email provider (and doesn't care about his personal brand), consider that > using his own domain name makes moving from one paid email provider to the > next much easier. > > Both Protonmail and Fastmail have very good instructions to point your DNS > records at their mail servers. Because I used my own domain name, I was able > to migrate form Protonmail to Fastmail, update all my DNS records, and import > all my previous Protonmail messages to Fastmail in less than an hour. > > More importantly, I didn't have to update my emali address at any of the > sites I had already switched from Gmail. > > And now for my recommendations. > > Domain Registrars: > > - https://dnsimple.com - Well-established registrar with a good interface and > only $6/mo domain hosting fee > - https://porkbun.com - Up-and-coming registrar recommended by Jim Salter of > the 2.5 Admins podcast. I don't know their pricing. > > Fastmail is good. But they only allow up to 600 email aliases, and charge > $5/mo for my first domain, and at least $3/mo for each additional domain (one > domain per sub-account). So I asked on the OpenBSD misc mailing list a few > months ago for suggested email hosting providers. > > - https://migadu.com - Starting at $20/yr for unlimited aliases and unlimited > domains. You cannot register or host a domain with them (that makes moving > away from them easier). Plans are limited by storage space and messages in > and out per day. Bigger plans increase those limits. They have been in > business since 2014. The amounts are realistic for my use case. I plan to > switch my k9w.org domain from Fastmail to Migadu. > > - https://purelymail.com - Flat $10/yr for unlimited aliases and unlimited > domains, again not registered or hosted domains with them. They are in public > Beta but have been going for at least the last few years. I already have > another domain with them and have been very happy with their tools, > documentation, and support staff. > > - https://runbox.com - Norwegian-based offering plans starting at $20/mo for > unlimited aliases and one custom domain, registered/hosted with them or from > another provider. I might try them out with a test domain for the fun of it. > But I could easily us as many domains at either of the two providers above. > > "But Kevin, why are you using two of them at $30/yr rather than just one > service at $10 or $20 per year?" > > Because I want to experience both services over the long term. If I have any > less-technical friends and convince them to try email at their own domain > name, I could offer to save them the email hosting cost and add their domain > to one of the first two options above. > > Realistically, I still have probably another 50 or so accounts to move away > from Gmail. New accounts are at my paid provider straight out of the gate. > > It's a lot of work. But it's worth it to own my email, to pay for it with my > dollars, not pay for it with my personal data. > > Galen, I hope this is helpful to your friend and anyone who searches the PLUG > archives for this question in the future. > > Thanks, > Kevin Williams > > On Fri, Nov 17, 2023, at 16:14, Galen Seitz wrote: > > Hi, > > > > A smart, but non-sysadmin, non-linux-using friend asks: > > > > "Hey I’ve been interested in getting off Gmail and switching to a mail > > service I pay for. And then using it with IMAP on my various devices. Do > > you have any knowledge about other services besides Gmail, yahoo, etc?" > > > > I'm pretty sure this person uses a Mac laptop, but I'm not
Re: [PLUG] email services supporting IMAP
Hi Galen, I myself have been on this journey to migrate my internet accounts registered using my Gmail address to my own domain, and use multiple aliases in the form of serv...@mydomain.tld. Over the last year and a half, I have moved about 90 accounts from Gmail. Some sites allow self-service email address change. Others require you submit a ticket to their support staff. Others, such as Shopify, require you submit a ticket to them to export your account history (if you want to keep it), delete your account, create a new account, and re-import the history from your old account if you don't want to start from scratch. This means I'm keeping Gmail around until the process is complete. I also export my email archive to mbox or maildir, likely using Google take-out. I started out at Protonmail. Then I discovered they don't support IMAP unless I installed their SMTP-to-IMAP bridge app on my local machine. It supports Linux, but not OpenBSD, which I use more regularly these days. So I switched to Fastmail. (But read further. I'm looking to switch away from them too.) If your friend is not sure it's worth it to register and maintain his own domain name for email and setup the MX, DMARC, SPF and other DNS records at the email provider (and doesn't care about his personal brand), consider that using his own domain name makes moving from one paid email provider to the next much easier. Both Protonmail and Fastmail have very good instructions to point your DNS records at their mail servers. Because I used my own domain name, I was able to migrate form Protonmail to Fastmail, update all my DNS records, and import all my previous Protonmail messages to Fastmail in less than an hour. More importantly, I didn't have to update my emali address at any of the sites I had already switched from Gmail. And now for my recommendations. Domain Registrars: - https://dnsimple.com - Well-established registrar with a good interface and only $6/mo domain hosting fee - https://porkbun.com - Up-and-coming registrar recommended by Jim Salter of the 2.5 Admins podcast. I don't know their pricing. Fastmail is good. But they only allow up to 600 email aliases, and charge $5/mo for my first domain, and at least $3/mo for each additional domain (one domain per sub-account). So I asked on the OpenBSD misc mailing list a few months ago for suggested email hosting providers. - https://migadu.com - Starting at $20/yr for unlimited aliases and unlimited domains. You cannot register or host a domain with them (that makes moving away from them easier). Plans are limited by storage space and messages in and out per day. Bigger plans increase those limits. They have been in business since 2014. The amounts are realistic for my use case. I plan to switch my k9w.org domain from Fastmail to Migadu. - https://purelymail.com - Flat $10/yr for unlimited aliases and unlimited domains, again not registered or hosted domains with them. They are in public Beta but have been going for at least the last few years. I already have another domain with them and have been very happy with their tools, documentation, and support staff. - https://runbox.com - Norwegian-based offering plans starting at $20/mo for unlimited aliases and one custom domain, registered/hosted with them or from another provider. I might try them out with a test domain for the fun of it. But I could easily us as many domains at either of the two providers above. "But Kevin, why are you using two of them at $30/yr rather than just one service at $10 or $20 per year?" Because I want to experience both services over the long term. If I have any less-technical friends and convince them to try email at their own domain name, I could offer to save them the email hosting cost and add their domain to one of the first two options above. Realistically, I still have probably another 50 or so accounts to move away from Gmail. New accounts are at my paid provider straight out of the gate. It's a lot of work. But it's worth it to own my email, to pay for it with my dollars, not pay for it with my personal data. Galen, I hope this is helpful to your friend and anyone who searches the PLUG archives for this question in the future. Thanks, Kevin Williams On Fri, Nov 17, 2023, at 16:14, Galen Seitz wrote: > Hi, > > A smart, but non-sysadmin, non-linux-using friend asks: > > "Hey I’ve been interested in getting off Gmail and switching to a mail > service I pay for. And then using it with IMAP on my various devices. Do > you have any knowledge about other services besides Gmail, yahoo, etc?" > > I'm pretty sure this person uses a Mac laptop, but I'm not sure about > their phone. I'd guess iOS, but it could be Android. > > Suggestions? > > thanks, > galen > -- > Galen Seitz > gal...@seitzassoc.com >
[PLUG] email services supporting IMAP
Hi, A smart, but non-sysadmin, non-linux-using friend asks: "Hey I’ve been interested in getting off Gmail and switching to a mail service I pay for. And then using it with IMAP on my various devices. Do you have any knowledge about other services besides Gmail, yahoo, etc?" I'm pretty sure this person uses a Mac laptop, but I'm not sure about their phone. I'd guess iOS, but it could be Android. Suggestions? thanks, galen -- Galen Seitz gal...@seitzassoc.com
