Re: Linking HTML pages and data

2010-02-18 Thread Michael Hausenblas

Thanks, Kingsley, for dumping in the initial stuff. I've tried to beautify
it and make it a bit more readable, coming up with two concrete
proposals/good practices [1].

Community review, please! :)

Cheers,
  Michael

[1] 
http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/TaskForces/CommunityProjects/LinkingOpenData/
AutoDiscovery

-- 
Dr. Michael Hausenblas
LiDRC - Linked Data Research Centre
DERI - Digital Enterprise Research Institute
NUIG - National University of Ireland, Galway
Ireland, Europe
Tel. +353 91 495730
http://linkeddata.deri.ie/
http://sw-app.org/about.html



 From: Kingsley Idehen kide...@openlinksw.com
 Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:30:13 -0500
 To: Michael Hausenblas michael.hausenb...@deri.org
 Cc: Ed Summers e...@pobox.com, Linked Data community public-lod@w3.org
 Subject: Re: Linking HTML pages and data
 
 Michael Hausenblas wrote:
 Kingsley, Ed,
 
   
 We need a document that covers the following:
 
 1. Linked Data Auto Discovery Patterns
 2. How to associate documents with the things they describe.
 
 
 
 Agree. I've started a document at [1] now - please dump your ideas,
 thoughts, requirements, etc. there and I'll take care of getting it in a
 good shape ;)
 
 Cheers,
   Michael
 
 [1] 
 http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/TaskForces/CommunityProjects/LinkingOpenData/
 AutoDiscovery
 
 Cheers,
   Michael
 
   
 Okay, dropped a quick dump :-)
 
 -- 
 
 Regards,
 
 Kingsley Idehen  
 President  CEO 
 OpenLink Software
 Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
 Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
 Twitter/Identi.ca: kidehen
 
 
 
 
 




Re: Linking HTML pages and data

2010-02-18 Thread Bill Roberts
Hi Michael - maybe also include the RDFa approach, using 
about=http://example.org/people/jane#me; ?

And a trivial point, but having introduced the Jane example, maybe better to 
change the Mogwai examples to use Jane instead?

Thanks for doing this - v useful.

Bill

On 18 Feb 2010, at 14:08, Michael Hausenblas wrote:

 
 Thanks, Kingsley, for dumping in the initial stuff. I've tried to beautify
 it and make it a bit more readable, coming up with two concrete
 proposals/good practices [1].
 
 Community review, please! :)
 
 Cheers,
  Michael
 
 [1] 
 http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/TaskForces/CommunityProjects/LinkingOpenData/
 AutoDiscovery
 
 -- 
 Dr. Michael Hausenblas
 LiDRC - Linked Data Research Centre
 DERI - Digital Enterprise Research Institute
 NUIG - National University of Ireland, Galway
 Ireland, Europe
 Tel. +353 91 495730
 http://linkeddata.deri.ie/
 http://sw-app.org/about.html
 
 
 
 From: Kingsley Idehen kide...@openlinksw.com
 Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:30:13 -0500
 To: Michael Hausenblas michael.hausenb...@deri.org
 Cc: Ed Summers e...@pobox.com, Linked Data community public-lod@w3.org
 Subject: Re: Linking HTML pages and data
 
 Michael Hausenblas wrote:
 Kingsley, Ed,
 
 
 We need a document that covers the following:
 
 1. Linked Data Auto Discovery Patterns
 2. How to associate documents with the things they describe.
 
 
 
 Agree. I've started a document at [1] now - please dump your ideas,
 thoughts, requirements, etc. there and I'll take care of getting it in a
 good shape ;)
 
 Cheers,
  Michael
 
 [1] 
 http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/TaskForces/CommunityProjects/LinkingOpenData/
 AutoDiscovery
 
 Cheers,
  Michael
 
 
 Okay, dropped a quick dump :-)
 
 -- 
 
 Regards,
 
 Kingsley Idehen  
 President  CEO 
 OpenLink Software
 Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
 Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
 Twitter/Identi.ca: kidehen
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




Re: Linking HTML pages and data

2010-02-17 Thread Sean Bechhofer


On 16 Feb 2010, at 23:13, Pat Hayes wrote:



On Feb 16, 2010, at 6:39 AM, Sean Bechhofer wrote:



LODders

A simple (possibly dumb) question. Is there a standard mechanism  
for linking an HTML page to the non-information resource that it  
describes?


Um. OK, I have an equally dumb question in response.


No dumber than mine I'm sure! :-)

What does it (what can it possibly) mean to *link* to a non- 
information resource? I have been understanding the usage of link  
to mean that a link is a URI which both refers to the thing being  
linked to (the linkee) and also provides access to it when used in  
an HTTP GET. But this latter, of course, exactly what is impossible  
to do when the linkee is a non-information resource, pretty much by  
definition.


Do you mean, a standard mechanism to *refer to* the resource?  
Because surely that is done simply by *using* the URI which names  
it. It requires no other 'mechanism'; indeed, I don't think that  
there possibly could be a mechanism for reference.


You're right -- I don't really mean link, I mean refer to.


For example, in the page

http://dbpedia.org/page/Mogwai_(band)

I see a number of link elements in the header that point me to  
alternate representations (rdf, json etc).  There's nothing in the  
header that points me to *http://dbpedia.org/resource/Mogwai_ 
(band)* (as far as I can tell) though.


But there is an owl:sameAs which links to http://mpii.de/yago/ 
resource/Mogwai_(band), which appears to be a use of a URI  
referring to the non-information resource. Is this an example of  
the kind of link you are looking for?


Not quite. What I want to try and capture is the fact that the  
primary topic (to use the term suggested by others) of the page is  
http://dbpedia.org/resource/Mogwai_(band). Just using the URI  
doesn't seem to achieve this -- I could use lots of URIs in the page,  
and not all of them may be my intended primary topic.


Why do I want to do this? We're publishing some information about  
things, and hoping to use a linked data friendly approach. So there  
are URIs for the things which will content negotiate to appropriate  
representations (RDF, HTML etc). What we were concerned about was  
when users end up bookmarking (or sending via email) the HTML pages.  
In that case, how might we *refer* :-) back to the resource that the  
page is describing. Clearly I can include human-readable text in the  
page: This page is about X, and we will do that, but I was  
wondering if there was a mechanism^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^ something that was  
in common usage (and which might then give me some advantages with  
existing tooling).


Discussion above suggests that thing might be link with an  
appropriate rel attribute.


Cheers,

Sean

--
Sean Bechhofer
School of Computer Science
University of Manchester
sean.bechho...@manchester.ac.uk
http://www.cs.manchester.ac.uk/people/bechhofer







Re: Linking HTML pages and data

2010-02-17 Thread Ian Davis
On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 2:01 AM, Kingsley Idehen kide...@openlinksw.com wrote:
 I really don't believe we achieve much via:
 link rel=primarytopic
 href=http://education.data.gov.uk/id/school/56; /

 primarytopic isn't an IANA registered type link.

Yes, I know. Nor is foaf:primaytopic :)

I think there's a good chance of getting wide adoption for
rel=primarytopic as a pattern / microformat / whatever. Having that
very simple relation would be a massive boost for cross-linking the
document web with the data web, important enough to warrant a special
case IMHO.



 If you absolutely need to use foaf then its better to qualify it:
 link rel=foaf:primarytopic
 href=http://education.data.gov.uk/id/school/56; /

 Yes, its a PITA for the average HTML user/developer, but being superficially
 simpler doesn't make it a valid long term solution. There is a standard in
 place for custom typed links re. link/.


The two are not exclusive. In an RDFa environment, I would suggest
using foaf:primaryTopic (note case too - too easy for developers to
mis-type)

Ian



Re: Linking HTML pages and data

2010-02-17 Thread Kingsley Idehen

Ed Summers wrote:

On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 5:51 PM, Ian Davis li...@iandavis.com wrote:
  

You can see it in use on data.gov.uk:

http://education.data.gov.uk/doc/school/56

contains:

link rel=primarytopic href=http://education.data.gov.uk/id/school/56; /



Wow, thanks Ian. I hadn't noticed this pattern in use at data.gov.uk.
It seems like a worthwhile pattern to encourage people to follow, by
adding it to the How to Publish Linked Data on the Web [1] ... or
elsewhere?

//Ed

[1] http://www4.wiwiss.fu-berlin.de/bizer/pub/LinkedDataTutorial/


  

We need a document that covers the following:

1. Linked Data Auto Discovery Patterns
2. How to associate documents with the things they describe.


--

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen	  
President  CEO 
OpenLink Software 
Web: http://www.openlinksw.com

Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca: kidehen 









Re: Linking HTML pages and data

2010-02-17 Thread Michael Hausenblas

Kingsley, Ed,

 We need a document that covers the following:
 
 1. Linked Data Auto Discovery Patterns
 2. How to associate documents with the things they describe.
 

Agree. I've started a document at [1] now - please dump your ideas,
thoughts, requirements, etc. there and I'll take care of getting it in a
good shape ;)

Cheers,
  Michael

[1] 
http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/TaskForces/CommunityProjects/LinkingOpenData/
AutoDiscovery

Cheers,
  Michael

-- 
Dr. Michael Hausenblas
LiDRC - Linked Data Research Centre
DERI - Digital Enterprise Research Institute
NUIG - National University of Ireland, Galway
Ireland, Europe
Tel. +353 91 495730
http://linkeddata.deri.ie/
http://sw-app.org/about.html



 From: Kingsley Idehen kide...@openlinksw.com
 Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 07:21:06 -0500
 To: Ed Summers e...@pobox.com
 Cc: Linked Data community public-lod@w3.org
 Subject: Re: Linking HTML pages and data
 Resent-From: Linked Data community public-lod@w3.org
 Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:59:01 +
 
 Ed Summers wrote:
 On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 5:51 PM, Ian Davis li...@iandavis.com wrote:
   
 You can see it in use on data.gov.uk:
 
 http://education.data.gov.uk/doc/school/56
 
 contains:
 
 link rel=primarytopic
 href=http://education.data.gov.uk/id/school/56; /
 
 
 Wow, thanks Ian. I hadn't noticed this pattern in use at data.gov.uk.
 It seems like a worthwhile pattern to encourage people to follow, by
 adding it to the How to Publish Linked Data on the Web [1] ... or
 elsewhere?
 
 //Ed
 
 [1] http://www4.wiwiss.fu-berlin.de/bizer/pub/LinkedDataTutorial/
 
 
   
 We need a document that covers the following:
 
 1. Linked Data Auto Discovery Patterns
 2. How to associate documents with the things they describe.
 
 
 -- 
 
 Regards,
 
 Kingsley Idehen  
 President  CEO 
 OpenLink Software
 Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
 Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
 Twitter/Identi.ca: kidehen
 
 
 
 
 
 




Re: Linking HTML pages and data

2010-02-17 Thread Kingsley Idehen

Michael Hausenblas wrote:

Kingsley, Ed,

  

We need a document that covers the following:

1. Linked Data Auto Discovery Patterns
2. How to associate documents with the things they describe.




Agree. I've started a document at [1] now - please dump your ideas,
thoughts, requirements, etc. there and I'll take care of getting it in a
good shape ;)

Cheers,
  Michael

[1] 
http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/TaskForces/CommunityProjects/LinkingOpenData/

AutoDiscovery

Cheers,
  Michael

  

Okay, dropped a quick dump :-)

--

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen	  
President  CEO 
OpenLink Software 
Web: http://www.openlinksw.com

Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca: kidehen 









Linking HTML pages and data

2010-02-16 Thread Sean Bechhofer


LODders

A simple (possibly dumb) question. Is there a standard mechanism for  
linking an HTML page to the non-information resource that it describes?


For example, in the page

http://dbpedia.org/page/Mogwai_(band)

I see a number of link elements in the header that point me to  
alternate representations (rdf, json etc).  There's nothing in the  
header that points me to *http://dbpedia.org/resource/Mogwai_(band) 
* (as far as I can tell) though. There is an about attribute on  
the body that does so:


body onload=init(); about=http://dbpedia.org/resource/Mogwai_ 
(band)

...

In contrast, if I look at the page for the band on the BBC, i.e.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/artists/ 
d700b3f5-45af-4d02-95ed-57d301bda93e


there seems to be no reference at all to the non-information resource

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/artists/ 
d700b3f5-45af-4d02-95ed-57d301bda93e#artist


which is the subject of the page.

Any conventions in operation here?

Thanks,

Sean

--
Sean Bechhofer
School of Computer Science
University of Manchester
sean.bechho...@manchester.ac.uk
http://www.cs.manchester.ac.uk/people/bechhofer







Re: Linking HTML pages and data

2010-02-16 Thread Damian Steer

On 16/02/10 12:39, Sean Bechhofer wrote:


LODders

A simple (possibly dumb) question. Is there a standard mechanism for
linking an HTML page to the non-information resource that it describes?



In contrast, if I look at the page for the band on the BBC, i.e.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/artists/d700b3f5-45af-4d02-95ed-57d301bda93e

there seems to be no reference at all to the non-information resource

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/artists/d700b3f5-45af-4d02-95ed-57d301bda93e#artist


which is the subject of the page.


In this case you have:

html:rel alternate - rdf version of page

(you can also ask for rdf/xml directly in accept header).

RDF version says primary topic is '...#artist'

So perhaps the BBC perspective is that the HTML is a lower-fidelity 
representation of the resource.


The dbpedia page also has a rel alternate to an rdf version. In that 
case, however, the page isn't mentioned.


I would add a little RDFa (to beef up the fidelity a touch) and use 
foaf:primaryTopic.


Damian



Re: Linking HTML pages and data

2010-02-16 Thread Kingsley Idehen

Sean Bechhofer wrote:


LODders

A simple (possibly dumb) question. Is there a standard mechanism for 
linking an HTML page to the non-information resource that it describes?


For example, in the page

http://dbpedia.org/page/Mogwai_(band)

I see a number of link elements in the header that point me to 
alternate representations (rdf, json etc).  There's nothing in the 
header that points me to *http://dbpedia.org/resource/Mogwai_(band)* 
(as far as I can tell) though. There is an about attribute on the 
body that does so:


body onload=init(); about=http://dbpedia.org/resource/Mogwai_(band)
...

In contrast, if I look at the page for the band on the BBC, i.e.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/artists/d700b3f5-45af-4d02-95ed-57d301bda93e

there seems to be no reference at all to the non-information resource

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/artists/d700b3f5-45af-4d02-95ed-57d301bda93e#artist 



which is the subject of the page.

Any conventions in operation here?
Well the practice (ideally) is to use link/ to expose relationships 
between Web resources. If you sorta drop the Resource and Non 
Information Resource dichotomy and think about two things (Docs are 
things too) then link/ is your very best friend :-)



Re. the BBC, and many other publishers of HTML or RDF docs, there is 
still a tendency to overlook this vital auto-discovery pattern for HTTP 
user agents. This problem stems from aRDF legacy issues e.g. having 
triples in RDF docs that don't include any relations with their host 
container (the doc) or vice versa.


Links:

1. http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nottingham-http-link-header-06  --- 
RFC covering LINK without any notion of Information Resource that 
doesn't break anything.



Kingsley


Thanks,

Sean

--
Sean Bechhofer
School of Computer Science
University of Manchester
sean.bechho...@manchester.ac.uk
http://www.cs.manchester.ac.uk/people/bechhofer









--

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen	  
President  CEO 
OpenLink Software 
Web: http://www.openlinksw.com

Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca: kidehen 









Re: Linking HTML pages and data

2010-02-16 Thread Ed Summers
Hi Sean,

On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 7:39 AM, Sean Bechhofer
sean.bechho...@manchester.ac.uk wrote:
 A simple (possibly dumb) question. Is there a standard mechanism for linking
 an HTML page to the non-information resource that it describes?

Not a dumb question at all--at least for me :-)

I've been using the link pattern that Chris Bizer, Richard Cyganiak
and Tom Heath documented in How To Publish Linked Data On The Web [1]
for discovery of RDF documents that are related to a given HTML
document.

But you are asking about the relation between a document and the the
*thing* being described. I agree with Damien that foaf:primaryTopic
seems like it could work, and that one possibility would be to slip a
bit of RDFa into the HTML document that asserted:

   foaf:primaryTopic http://dbpedia.org/resource/Mogwai_(band) .

I also agree w/ Kingsley that it would be neat to also have a link
pattern that non-RDFa folks could use:

  link rel=http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/primaryTopic;
href=http://dbpedia.org/resource/Mogwai_(band) title=Mogwai /

Or if mnot's Web Linking RFC is approved it would open the door to
using the Link HTTP Header:

  Link: http://dbpedia.org/resource/Mogwai_(band);
rel=http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/primaryTopic;; title=Mogwai

Registering [3] primaryTopic as a link relation type would tighten it
up a bit, as well as help advertise the pattern.

  link rel=primaryTopic
href=http://dbpedia.org/resource/Mogwai_(band) title=Mogwai /

At any rate, I'd be interested to hear if other people have other
approaches to this. It would be nice to have a little recipe (w3c
note?) people could follow when making these sorts of assertions on
the web. Assuming one isn't there already of course :-)

//Ed

PS. the oai-ore folks had a similar use case to link descriptions to
the thing being described. They ended up creating a new term
oai:describes [4], and documented ways of layering assertions into rdf
[5], atom [6] and html [7] documents. I think the vocabulary is
probably too specific to aggregations and resource maps to be useful
in the general case you are talking about though.

PSS. I really just wanted to type Mogwai a bunch of times :-)

[1] http://www4.wiwiss.fu-berlin.de/bizer/pub/LinkedDataTutorial/#discovery
[2] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nottingham-http-link-header-07
[3] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nottingham-http-link-header-07#section-6.2
[4] http://www.openarchives.org/ore/1.0/vocabulary#ore-describes
[5] http://www.openarchives.org/ore/1.0/rdfxml#remtoaggr
[6] http://www.openarchives.org/ore/1.0/atom#metadata
[7] http://www.openarchives.org/ore/1.0/discovery#HTMLLinkElement



Re: Linking HTML pages and data

2010-02-16 Thread Kingsley Idehen

Ed Summers wrote:

Hi Sean,

On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 7:39 AM, Sean Bechhofer
sean.bechho...@manchester.ac.uk wrote:
  

A simple (possibly dumb) question. Is there a standard mechanism for linking
an HTML page to the non-information resource that it describes?



Not a dumb question at all--at least for me :-)

I've been using the link pattern that Chris Bizer, Richard Cyganiak
and Tom Heath documented in How To Publish Linked Data On The Web [1]
for discovery of RDF documents that are related to a given HTML
document.

But you are asking about the relation between a document and the the
*thing* being described. I agree with Damien that foaf:primaryTopic
seems like it could work, and that one possibility would be to slip a
bit of RDFa into the HTML document that asserted:

   foaf:primaryTopic http://dbpedia.org/resource/Mogwai_(band) .
  
I agree with Damien too, I've nagged enough people about their RDF docs 
lacking the relation above :-)


Ironically, we left the relation out of the RDF docs we generate for 
DBpedia due to some legacy re-write rules :-(

I also agree w/ Kingsley that it would be neat to also have a link
pattern that non-RDFa folks could use:

  link rel=http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/primaryTopic;
href=http://dbpedia.org/resource/Mogwai_(band) title=Mogwai /

Or if mnot's Web Linking RFC is approved it would open the door to
using the Link HTTP Header:

  Link: http://dbpedia.org/resource/Mogwai_(band);
rel=http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/primaryTopic;; title=Mogwai
  
We assumed this is a go, and already showcase it via URIBurner and 
DBpedia data space URIs.

Registering [3] primaryTopic as a link relation type would tighten it
up a bit, as well as help advertise the pattern.

  link rel=primaryTopic
href=http://dbpedia.org/resource/Mogwai_(band) title=Mogwai /
  

Yes, but right now rel=foaf:pimarytopic is fine as a custom relation.

Conversely, describedby or wrt:describedby is emerging as a cool 
mechanism for connecting an Entity (via its generic HTTP URI) to the 
Resource that holds its description.

At any rate, I'd be interested to hear if other people have other
approaches to this. It would be nice to have a little recipe (w3c
note?) people could follow when making these sorts of assertions on
the web. Assuming one isn't there already of course :-)
  


We need to make a definitive note about Linked Data auto-discovery 
patterns, its way overdue.


Kingsley

//Ed

PS. the oai-ore folks had a similar use case to link descriptions to
the thing being described. They ended up creating a new term
oai:describes [4], and documented ways of layering assertions into rdf
[5], atom [6] and html [7] documents. I think the vocabulary is
probably too specific to aggregations and resource maps to be useful
in the general case you are talking about though.

PSS. I really just wanted to type Mogwai a bunch of times :-)

[1] http://www4.wiwiss.fu-berlin.de/bizer/pub/LinkedDataTutorial/#discovery
[2] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nottingham-http-link-header-07
[3] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nottingham-http-link-header-07#section-6.2
[4] http://www.openarchives.org/ore/1.0/vocabulary#ore-describes
[5] http://www.openarchives.org/ore/1.0/rdfxml#remtoaggr
[6] http://www.openarchives.org/ore/1.0/atom#metadata
[7] http://www.openarchives.org/ore/1.0/discovery#HTMLLinkElement


  



--

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen	  
President  CEO 
OpenLink Software 
Web: http://www.openlinksw.com

Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca: kidehen 









Re: Linking HTML pages and data

2010-02-16 Thread Ian Davis
On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 7:42 PM, Ed Summers e...@pobox.com wrote:
 I also agree w/ Kingsley that it would be neat to also have a link
 pattern that non-RDFa folks could use:

  link rel=http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/primaryTopic;
 href=http://dbpedia.org/resource/Mogwai_(band) title=Mogwai /


I have been promoting the use of the simpler primarytopic rel value
as a pattern for linking HTML pages to the things they are about. I
don't think we need to complicate things with pseudo namespaces etc
for HTML, just focus on something simple people can copy.

You can see it in use on data.gov.uk:

http://education.data.gov.uk/doc/school/56

contains:

link rel=primarytopic href=http://education.data.gov.uk/id/school/56; /

Ian



Re: Linking HTML pages and data

2010-02-16 Thread Pat Hayes


On Feb 16, 2010, at 6:39 AM, Sean Bechhofer wrote:



LODders

A simple (possibly dumb) question. Is there a standard mechanism for  
linking an HTML page to the non-information resource that it  
describes?


Um. OK, I have an equally dumb question in response. What does it  
(what can it possibly) mean to *link* to a non-information resource? I  
have been understanding the usage of link to mean that a link is a  
URI which both refers to the thing being linked to (the linkee) and  
also provides access to it when used in an HTTP GET. But this latter,  
of course, exactly what is impossible to do when the linkee is a non- 
information resource, pretty much by definition.


Do you mean, a standard mechanism to *refer to* the resource? Because  
surely that is done simply by *using* the URI which names it. It  
requires no other 'mechanism'; indeed, I don't think that there  
possibly could be a mechanism for reference.




For example, in the page

http://dbpedia.org/page/Mogwai_(band)

I see a number of link elements in the header that point me to  
alternate representations (rdf, json etc).  There's nothing in the  
header that points me to *http://dbpedia.org/resource/ 
Mogwai_(band)* (as far as I can tell) though.


But there is an owl:sameAs which links to http://mpii.de/yago/resource/Mogwai_(band) 
, which appears to be a use of a URI referring to the non-information  
resource. Is this an example of the kind of link you are looking for?


Pat Hayes







There is an about attribute on the body that does so:

body onload=init(); about=http://dbpedia.org/resource/Mogwai_(band) 


...

In contrast, if I look at the page for the band on the BBC, i.e.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/artists/d700b3f5-45af-4d02-95ed-57d301bda93e 



there seems to be no reference at all to the non-information resource

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/artists/d700b3f5-45af-4d02-95ed-57d301bda93e#artist 



which is the subject of the page.

Any conventions in operation here?

Thanks,

Sean

--
Sean Bechhofer
School of Computer Science
University of Manchester
sean.bechho...@manchester.ac.uk
http://www.cs.manchester.ac.uk/people/bechhofer









IHMC (850)434 8903 or (650)494 3973
40 South Alcaniz St.   (850)202 4416   office
Pensacola(850)202 4440   fax
FL 32502  (850)291 0667   mobile
phayesAT-SIGNihmc.us   http://www.ihmc.us/users/phayes








Re: Linking HTML pages and data

2010-02-16 Thread Kingsley Idehen

Ian Davis wrote:

On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 7:42 PM, Ed Summers e...@pobox.com wrote:
  

I also agree w/ Kingsley that it would be neat to also have a link
pattern that non-RDFa folks could use:

 link rel=http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/primaryTopic;
href=http://dbpedia.org/resource/Mogwai_(band) title=Mogwai /




I have been promoting the use of the simpler primarytopic rel value
as a pattern for linking HTML pages to the things they are about. I
don't think we need to complicate things with pseudo namespaces etc
for HTML, just focus on something simple people can copy.

You can see it in use on data.gov.uk:

http://education.data.gov.uk/doc/school/56

contains:

link rel=primarytopic href=http://education.data.gov.uk/id/school/56; /

Ian


  

Ian,

I really don't believe we achieve much via:
link rel=primarytopic 
href=http://education.data.gov.uk/id/school/56; /


primarytopic isn't an IANA registered type link.

If you absolutely need to use foaf then its better to qualify it:
link rel=foaf:primarytopic 
href=http://education.data.gov.uk/id/school/56; /


Yes, its a PITA for the average HTML user/developer, but being 
superficially simpler doesn't make it a valid long term solution. There 
is a standard in place for custom typed links re. link/.


Links:

1. http://www.iana.org/assignments/link-relations/link-relations.xhtml
2. http://www.mnot.net/drafts/draft-nottingham-http-link-header-07.txt 
-- guide for registering new link relations is in section 4.1



--

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen	  
President  CEO 
OpenLink Software 
Web: http://www.openlinksw.com

Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca: kidehen 









Re: Linking HTML pages and data

2010-02-16 Thread Ed Summers
On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 5:51 PM, Ian Davis li...@iandavis.com wrote:
 You can see it in use on data.gov.uk:

 http://education.data.gov.uk/doc/school/56

 contains:

 link rel=primarytopic href=http://education.data.gov.uk/id/school/56; 
 /

Wow, thanks Ian. I hadn't noticed this pattern in use at data.gov.uk.
It seems like a worthwhile pattern to encourage people to follow, by
adding it to the How to Publish Linked Data on the Web [1] ... or
elsewhere?

//Ed

[1] http://www4.wiwiss.fu-berlin.de/bizer/pub/LinkedDataTutorial/