[Python-Dev] Re: Do we need to remove everything that's deprecated?

[Mike Miller]

This is the point where the pricey support contract comes in.  Would give 
options to those who need it and provide some revenue.


Otherwise, the "there's no such thing as a free lunch," factor takes precedence.

-Mike

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[Python-Dev] Re: Please be careful about changing PEPs post-submission to the SC

[Brett Cannon]

On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 2:25 PM Guido van Rossum  wrote:

> I know PEP 646 was one of these.
>

I purposefully didn't "out" anyone, but yes. 


> In our defense, we *did* notify the SC that there was a pending issue (
> https://github.com/python/steering-council/issues/59#issuecomment-951728233),
> although at the time we didn't anticipate it to become such a contentious
> discussion between the PEP authors.
>

You definitely did, but I know I had personally assumed it was already
resolved and committed based on the wording being past tense and the change
being classified as small.


> (Though, while contentious, it's still a minor edge case in the PEP, and I
> don't think it would affect the SC's position which way we eventually end
> up going.)
>

Yeah, probably not a big deal in the end.


>
> I'm guessing that the recommended approach in such a case is just to close
> the SC issue and reopen it once the PEP is updated?
>

Yeah, I think so. Just saying something like, "closing this for now as we
have discovered something that we need to resolve first; will re-open and
leave a comment when we are ready again" is helpful to let us know to
simply halt thinking and discussing the PEP.


>
> On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 12:04 PM Brett Cannon  wrote:
>
>> This is a personal plea (i.e. not coming from the SC at all), but in the
>> last month we have had PEPs changed twice post-submission to the SC. That's
>> a big time sink as we take multiple meetings to discuss a PEP and having
>> things change underneath us causes us to have to re-evaluate our
>> discussions (and I know I pretty much start thinking about PEPs once they
>> are submitted, whether we are actively discussing them or not and I'm
>> probably not the only SC member who does this).
>>
>> I know no one did this maliciously or anything, but since it's happened
>> twice now I just want to ask people be cognizant of this. Please reach out
>> to the SC if you want to make a change so we can discuss whether we think
>> it will help/hurt the PEP, etc. and we are also not taken off-guard by
>> things shifting (assume we don't monitor the commits and PRs to the peps
>> repo, so unless you explicitly say, "hold on", we won't realize discussions
>> are ongoing in a PR or anything). If that means withdrawing your PEP for
>> consideration for a while that's totally fine and it won't hurt your
>> chances of acceptance once you're at a stable state with your PEP.
>>
>> Once again, this is a personal ask and no one is mad at anyone. I'm just
>> asking people be very clear in communicating with us when they want to make
>> a change to a PEP or they have suddenly have an open issue they are still
>> discussing after they open an issue in the steering-council repo for us to
>> review a PEP and need us to stop considering their PEP for a while.
>> ___
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>>
>
>
> --
> --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
> *Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
> 
>
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[Python-Dev] Summary of Python tracker Issues

[Python tracker]

ACTIVITY SUMMARY (2021-11-12 - 2021-11-19)
Python tracker at https://bugs.python.org/

To view or respond to any of the issues listed below, click on the issue.
Do NOT respond to this message.

Issues counts and deltas:
  open7290 ( +8)
  closed 50286 (+45)
  total  57576 (+53)

Open issues with patches: 2884 


Issues opened (37)
==

#34592: cdll.LoadLibrary allows None as an argument
https://bugs.python.org/issue34592  reopened by gregory.p.smith

#41735: Thread locks in zlib module may go wrong in rare case
https://bugs.python.org/issue41735  reopened by malin

#45797: AMD64 Arch Linux Asan Debug buildbot sometimes hangs before te
https://bugs.python.org/issue45797  opened by vstinner

#45802: MozillaCookieJar can't read cookies, should support cookies.sq
https://bugs.python.org/issue45802  opened by akkana

#45803: make_dataclass is missing the documented kw_only argument
https://bugs.python.org/issue45803  opened by kintisheff

#45804: IDLE - faster shell writing
https://bugs.python.org/issue45804  opened by roger.serwy

#45805: CO_FUTURE_ANNOTATIONS flag is not documented or in inspect
https://bugs.python.org/issue45805  opened by saulshanabrook

#45806: Cannot Recover From StackOverflow in 3.9 Tests
https://bugs.python.org/issue45806  opened by Dennis Sweeney

#45808: configure check for HAVE_CRYPT_R is wrong
https://bugs.python.org/issue45808  opened by christian.heimes

#45809: Race condition in WeakKeyDictionary/WeakKeyDictionary
https://bugs.python.org/issue45809  opened by colesbury

#45810: Prohibit invisible control characters in string literals and c
https://bugs.python.org/issue45810  opened by steven.daprano

#45811: Improve error message when source code contains invisible cont
https://bugs.python.org/issue45811  opened by steven.daprano

#45813: Importing asyncio after deleting a coroutine object and before
https://bugs.python.org/issue45813  opened by xxm

#45815: Document exceptions raised by fnmtach
https://bugs.python.org/issue45815  opened by DimitriPapadopoulosOrfanos

#45816: Python does not support standalone MSVC v143 (VS 2022) Build T
https://bugs.python.org/issue45816  opened by February291948

#45818: socketserver.BaseRequestHandler inherited class
https://bugs.python.org/issue45818  opened by matsievskiysv

#45819: Avoid releasing the GIL in nonblocking socket operations
https://bugs.python.org/issue45819  opened by jcristharif

#45821: Many method parameters in the datetime module are positional-o
https://bugs.python.org/issue45821  opened by AlexWaygood

#45823: phyton stopped working
https://bugs.python.org/issue45823  opened by vicentpaul869

#45824: CSV module document does not include how to append files
https://bugs.python.org/issue45824  opened by wesrl

#45825: Heap Segmentation Fault
https://bugs.python.org/issue45825  opened by thewb

#45828: [sqlite3] use unraisable exceptions in callbacks
https://bugs.python.org/issue45828  opened by erlendaasland

#45829: Remove C stack use by specializing BINARY_SUBSCR, STORE_SUBSCR
https://bugs.python.org/issue45829  opened by Mark.Shannon

#45830: Custom pickler memory leak
https://bugs.python.org/issue45830  opened by douglas-raillard-arm

#45832: Misleading membersip expression documentation
https://bugs.python.org/issue45832  opened by harahu

#45833: NamedTemporaryFile deleted before enclosing context manager ex
https://bugs.python.org/issue45833  opened by Brian McCutchon

#45834: Move runtime except: check to the parser
https://bugs.python.org/issue45834  opened by iritkatriel

#45837: Fix turtle deprecations
https://bugs.python.org/issue45837  opened by hugovk

#45838: Incorrect line numbers in GDB Python backtraces [3.9]
https://bugs.python.org/issue45838  opened by colesbury

#45840: Improve cross-references in the data model documentation
https://bugs.python.org/issue45840  opened by AlexWaygood

#45842: AddressSanitizer: bad-free  -  hello world c extension
https://bugs.python.org/issue45842  opened by FrancescElies

#45843: Optimizing LOAD_CONST followed by COMPARE_OP (or IS_OP)
https://bugs.python.org/issue45843  opened by February291948

#45844: Dead link 'consolelib' in faq/library
https://bugs.python.org/issue45844  opened by JMcB17

#45845: Dead link 'pythoncraft.com/OSCON2001'  in faq/library
https://bugs.python.org/issue45845  opened by JMcB17

#45846: Incorrect name capitalisation in faq/programming
https://bugs.python.org/issue45846  opened by JMcB17

#45847: Port module setup to PY_STDLIB_MOD() macro and addext()
https://bugs.python.org/issue45847  opened by christian.heimes

#45848: Pegen's nice error reporting crashes with non-UTF-8 files
https://bugs.python.org/issue45848  opened by petr.viktorin



Most recent 15 issues with no replies (15)
==

#45848: Pegen's nice error reporting crashes with non-UTF-8 files
https://bugs.python.org/issue45848

#45847: Port module setup to PY_STDLIB_MOD() macro and addext()

[Python-Dev] Re: SC Acceptance: PEP 646 -- Variadic Generics

[Matthew Rahtz via Python-Dev]

Thanks, Brett. We'll notify you once we've resolved the issue.

On Thu, 18 Nov 2021 at 19:30, Brett Cannon  wrote:

> I put the PEP back on our agenda to discuss this.
>
> On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 2:40 PM Guido van Rossum  wrote:
>
>> Hi Barry,
>>
>> That's fantastic news!
>>
>> Somewhat embarrassingly, on typing-sig we're still discussing one or two
>> final tweaks. In particular, the PEP as accepted forbids a certain
>> construct (passing a tuple of indefinite length to a function using `*args:
>> *Ts`) that after all we may actually want to allow. This would affect
>> static type checkers only, there's no change in the grammar or runtime
>> associated with lifting this restriction. See
>> https://github.com/python/peps/pull/2125
>>
>> I presume the SC is okay with that?
>>
>> --Guido
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 2:15 PM Barry Warsaw  wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Mark, Matthew, Pradeep, Vincent, and Guido,
>>>
>>> The Python Steering Council discussed the latest version of PEP 646
>>> (Variadic Generics) at our last meeting, and have unanimously decided to
>>> accept the PEP.  Congratulations!
>>>
>>> We want to specifically mention that we appreciate the way you called
>>> out the Python grammar changes required by the typing features you
>>> proposed.  As we’ve said before, the Steering Council strongly believes
>>> that the typing language and the “general” Python programming language
>>> should remain aligned, so the implications of syntax change proposed in the
>>> PEP for typing needed to be addressed for non-typed Python as well.  The
>>> PEP explains this change well, and does a good job of justifying the
>>> semantics and usefulness of the change for non-type related purposes.
>>>
>>> Please feel free to change the PEP status to Accepted, and to merge your
>>> changes to Python 3.11 at your convenience.
>>>
>>> With our appreciation,
>>> -Barry (on behalf of the Python Steering Council)
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
>> *Pronouns: he/him **(why is my pronoun here?)*
>> 
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>
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