[Python-Dev] Re: Switching to Discourse

[Christopher Barker]

One thing I’ve noticed and found disappointing with discourse is that it
seems to lose the markdown formatting in both emails and quoting in replies.

It really effects the readability, partly when there’s code that loses its
formatting :-(

I don’t know that that affects  this discussion-/ but maybe one more big
report / feature request.

And it’s one more pro for GH discussions- GH is built for code, so much
more likely to support it well.

Coincidentally, I just noticed GH discussions today — the setuptools
project is using it.

-CHB





-- 
Christopher Barker, PhD (Chris)

Python Language Consulting
  - Teaching
  - Scientific Software Development
  - Desktop GUI and Web Development
  - wxPython, numpy, scipy, Cython
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[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 563 and Python 3.10.

[shibaa987]

What about the known CVEs for Python 3.10?? I have been running a website 
(https://mehndidesign.io/) on a self hosted Ubuntu running on WordOps which 
uses Python 3.10. Is there any security hole which I should be worried about? 
Thanks.
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[Python-Dev] Re: Switching to Discourse

[Samuel Colvin]

Hi Brett, I understand your points.

I think the main point of difference is the gap in usability between GitHub
discussions and Discourse - I think it's massive, but I understand others
will be less enamoured by GitHub and less frustrated by Discourse than me.

One correction:

but that does make the discussion specific to the repo


With Organisation Discussions
,
discussions are attached to the organisation, not a repr.

Samuel

--

Samuel Colvin


On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 at 19:45, Brett Cannon  wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 3:45 AM Samuel Colvin  wrote:
>
>> Reading this thread and thinking about discuss.python.org/Discourse -
>> I'm surprised no one is advocating github discussions
>> .
>>
>
> I think it's because discuss.python.org is what we decided to try years
> ago at the 2018 core dev sprint (so nearly 4 years ago), while GitHub
> Discussions would be a brand new thing to try and get people on board with.
>
>
>>
>> In particular organisation discussions
>>  would
>> provide an obvious central place for discussions that would be easy to find
>> and use for everyone.
>>
>> Advantages of github discussions:
>>
>>- Virtually all developers have a github account and are
>>familiar with github & GFM
>>
>>
> Discourse lets you log in via GitHub. I'm not sure if Discourse is
> straight Commonmark (probably is, though, since the co-creator of Discourse
> kicked off Commonmark because of Discourse).
>
>
>>
>>- Github provides great support for participating or watching
>>discussion via email - Discourse is really bad at this (at least by 
>> default)
>>- GH discussions obviously integrate well with the rest of github -
>>links to issues & pull requests (including other repos), discussions can 
>> be
>>moved to other repos, issues can be created from discussions, issues can 
>> be
>>converted to discussions - e.g. if someone creates a bug report which
>>should really be a feature discussion
>>
>>
> True, but that does make the discussion specific to the repo, which in
> this instance would be CPython and somewhat the language itself. This
> doesn't encompass something like packaging which has completely moved all
> development discussions over to discuss.python.org (and people have been
> generally happy with it). So I'm not sure if moving over to Discussions
> would actually lead to discuss.python.org going anywhere if you were
> trying to eliminate that need.
>
>
>>
>>- No extra service to maintain or pay for
>>
>> This is already true for discuss.python.org; Discourse is kindly
> donating the hosting on their SaaS platform.
>
>>
>>- GH discussions (unlike issues) provide good threading functionality
>>without the full treeview madness of hackernews etc.
>>
>> Before going "all in" with discuss.python.org/Discourse I think GH
>> discussions should be seriously considered.
>>
>
> If you can get people excited enough to say they are willing to give it a
> try, and the folks saying they are going to stop participating if/when we
> move to Discourse would actually stay if we moved to Discussions, then we
> can definitely talk about it.
>
> -Brett
>
>
>>
>> Samuel
>>
>> --
>>
>> Samuel Colvin
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 at 12:19, Petr Viktorin  wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>> Currently development discussions are split between multiple
>>> communication channels, for example:
>>> - python-dev and discuss.python.org for design discussions,
>>> - GitHub Issues and Pull Requests for specific changes,
>>> - IRC, Discord and private chats for real-time discussions,
>>> - Topic-specific channels like typing-sig.
>>>
>>> While most of these serve different needs, there is too much overlap
>>> between python-dev and discuss.python.org. It seems that for most
>>> people, this situation is worse than sticking to either one platform –
>>> even if we don't go with that person's favorite.
>>>
>>> The discuss.python.org experiment has been going on for quite a while,
>>> and while the platform is not without its issues, we consider it a
>>> success. The Core Development category is busier than python-dev.
>>> According to staff, discuss.python.org is much easier to moderate.. If
>>> you're following python-dev but not discuss.python.org, you're missing
>>> out.
>>>
>>> The Steering Council would like to switch from python-dev to
>>> discuss.python.org.
>>> Practically, this means:
>>> - Moving the required PEP announcements to discuss.python.org
>>> - Moving discuss.python.org up in the devguide communications page
>>> (https://devguide.python.org/communication/)
>>> - And that's it?
>>>
>>> I imagine that the mailing list will stay around for continuing past
>>> discussion threads and for announcements, eventually switching to
>>> auto-reject incoming messages with a pointer to discuss.python.org.
>>>

[Python-Dev] Re: Switching to Discourse

[Brett Cannon]

On Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 3:45 AM Samuel Colvin  wrote:

> Reading this thread and thinking about discuss.python.org/Discourse - I'm
> surprised no one is advocating github discussions
> .
>

I think it's because discuss.python.org is what we decided to try years ago
at the 2018 core dev sprint (so nearly 4 years ago), while GitHub
Discussions would be a brand new thing to try and get people on board with.


>
> In particular organisation discussions
>  would
> provide an obvious central place for discussions that would be easy to find
> and use for everyone.
>
> Advantages of github discussions:
>
>- Virtually all developers have a github account and are familiar with
>github & GFM
>
>
Discourse lets you log in via GitHub. I'm not sure if Discourse is straight
Commonmark (probably is, though, since the co-creator of Discourse kicked
off Commonmark because of Discourse).


>
>- Github provides great support for participating or watching
>discussion via email - Discourse is really bad at this (at least by 
> default)
>- GH discussions obviously integrate well with the rest of github -
>links to issues & pull requests (including other repos), discussions can be
>moved to other repos, issues can be created from discussions, issues can be
>converted to discussions - e.g. if someone creates a bug report which
>should really be a feature discussion
>
>
True, but that does make the discussion specific to the repo, which in this
instance would be CPython and somewhat the language itself. This doesn't
encompass something like packaging which has completely moved all
development discussions over to discuss.python.org (and people have been
generally happy with it). So I'm not sure if moving over to Discussions
would actually lead to discuss.python.org going anywhere if you were trying
to eliminate that need.


>
>- No extra service to maintain or pay for
>
> This is already true for discuss.python.org; Discourse is kindly donating
the hosting on their SaaS platform.

>
>- GH discussions (unlike issues) provide good threading functionality
>without the full treeview madness of hackernews etc.
>
> Before going "all in" with discuss.python.org/Discourse I think GH
> discussions should be seriously considered.
>

If you can get people excited enough to say they are willing to give it a
try, and the folks saying they are going to stop participating if/when we
move to Discourse would actually stay if we moved to Discussions, then we
can definitely talk about it.

-Brett


>
> Samuel
>
> --
>
> Samuel Colvin
>
>
> On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 at 12:19, Petr Viktorin  wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> Currently development discussions are split between multiple
>> communication channels, for example:
>> - python-dev and discuss.python.org for design discussions,
>> - GitHub Issues and Pull Requests for specific changes,
>> - IRC, Discord and private chats for real-time discussions,
>> - Topic-specific channels like typing-sig.
>>
>> While most of these serve different needs, there is too much overlap
>> between python-dev and discuss.python.org. It seems that for most
>> people, this situation is worse than sticking to either one platform –
>> even if we don't go with that person's favorite.
>>
>> The discuss.python.org experiment has been going on for quite a while,
>> and while the platform is not without its issues, we consider it a
>> success. The Core Development category is busier than python-dev.
>> According to staff, discuss.python.org is much easier to moderate.. If
>> you're following python-dev but not discuss.python.org, you're missing
>> out.
>>
>> The Steering Council would like to switch from python-dev to
>> discuss.python.org.
>> Practically, this means:
>> - Moving the required PEP announcements to discuss.python.org
>> - Moving discuss.python.org up in the devguide communications page
>> (https://devguide.python.org/communication/)
>> - And that's it?
>>
>> I imagine that the mailing list will stay around for continuing past
>> discussion threads and for announcements, eventually switching to
>> auto-reject incoming messages with a pointer to discuss.python.org.
>>
>> To be clear, discuss.python.org allows editing posts, which is frankly
>> handy for typos and clarifications. Editing alone should not be used for
>> adding new info -- we should cultivate a culture of being friendly to
>> mail users & notification watchers. This probably bears repeating in a
>> few places.
>>
>> We're aware not everyone wants to use the discuss.python.org website,
>> but there are some ways to avoid it:
>>
>> - For new PEPs, you can point your RSS client to
>> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/peps.rss – it's not e-mail, but many
>> email clients have RSS support. You can also watch the Steering Council
>> issues on GitHub (https://github.com/python/steering-council/issues/)
>> for important 

[Python-Dev] Re: Switching to Discourse

[Samuel Colvin]

Reading this thread and thinking about discuss.python.org/Discourse - I'm
surprised no one is advocating github discussions
.

In particular organisation discussions
 would
provide an obvious central place for discussions that would be easy to find
and use for everyone.

Advantages of github discussions:

   - Virtually all developers have a github account and are familiar with
   github & GFM
   - Github provides great support for participating or watching discussion
   via email - Discourse is really bad at this (at least by default)
   - GH discussions obviously integrate well with the rest of github -
   links to issues & pull requests (including other repos), discussions can be
   moved to other repos, issues can be created from discussions, issues can be
   converted to discussions - e.g. if someone creates a bug report which
   should really be a feature discussion
   - No extra service to maintain or pay for
   - GH discussions (unlike issues) provide good threading functionality
   without the full treeview madness of hackernews etc.

Before going "all in" with discuss.python.org/Discourse I think GH
discussions should be seriously considered.

Samuel

--

Samuel Colvin


On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 at 12:19, Petr Viktorin  wrote:

> Hello,
> Currently development discussions are split between multiple
> communication channels, for example:
> - python-dev and discuss.python.org for design discussions,
> - GitHub Issues and Pull Requests for specific changes,
> - IRC, Discord and private chats for real-time discussions,
> - Topic-specific channels like typing-sig.
>
> While most of these serve different needs, there is too much overlap
> between python-dev and discuss.python.org. It seems that for most
> people, this situation is worse than sticking to either one platform –
> even if we don't go with that person's favorite.
>
> The discuss.python.org experiment has been going on for quite a while,
> and while the platform is not without its issues, we consider it a
> success. The Core Development category is busier than python-dev.
> According to staff, discuss.python.org is much easier to moderate.. If
> you're following python-dev but not discuss.python.org, you're missing
> out.
>
> The Steering Council would like to switch from python-dev to
> discuss.python.org.
> Practically, this means:
> - Moving the required PEP announcements to discuss.python.org
> - Moving discuss.python.org up in the devguide communications page
> (https://devguide.python.org/communication/)
> - And that's it?
>
> I imagine that the mailing list will stay around for continuing past
> discussion threads and for announcements, eventually switching to
> auto-reject incoming messages with a pointer to discuss.python.org.
>
> To be clear, discuss.python.org allows editing posts, which is frankly
> handy for typos and clarifications. Editing alone should not be used for
> adding new info -- we should cultivate a culture of being friendly to
> mail users & notification watchers. This probably bears repeating in a
> few places.
>
> We're aware not everyone wants to use the discuss.python.org website,
> but there are some ways to avoid it:
>
> - For new PEPs, you can point your RSS client to
> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/peps.rss – it's not e-mail, but many
> email clients have RSS support. You can also watch the Steering Council
> issues on GitHub (https://github.com/python/steering-council/issues/)
> for important questions and discussions.
>
> - You can use discuss.python.org's “mailing list mode” (which subscribes
> you to all new posts), possibly with filtering and/or categorizing
> messages locally.
>
> However, we would like to know if this will pose an undue burden to
> anyone, if there are workflows or usage problems that we are not aware
> of. As mentioned, this is something the Steering Council thinks is a
> good idea, but we want to make sure we're aware of all the impact when
> we make the final decision.
>
>
>
> – Petr, on behalf of the Steering Council
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[Python-Dev] Re: Switching to Discourse

[Steven D'Aprano]

On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 07:06:47PM -0400, Edwin Zimmerman wrote:

> Mailing list mode is not what you want.  Instead, turn mailing list mode off 
> and set your email settings to these:
> 
> 
> 
> You can adjust the categories you receive email notifications for by changing 
> your list of watched categories under the notification settings:

I think you may have missed actually inserting the settings.



-- 
Steve
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[Python-Dev] Re: Switching to Discourse

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Terry Reedy writes:
 > On 7/21/2022 8:46 PM, Christopher Barker wrote:

 > > Does anyone else find it very odd to call a communication system “discord”?

 > For games, most of which involve combat, it seems appropriate.  For 
 > CPython development, 'harmony' might be better.

Already taken by the GNU Mailman community:
https://www.mailmanhost.com

:-)

Steve
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