Re: [Zopyrus] A python IDE for teaching that supports cyrillic i/o
Здравствуйте, Kirill. Вы писали 18 ноября 2006 г., 22:22:48: Could anyone suggest me a simple IDE suitable for teaching Python as a first programming language to high school students? Does it have to be an IDE? Wouldn't it be better to use a simple text editor + command line? Preferably. I believe that using a editor + command line will only make things worse because console and GUI have different encodings under Windows. So a student that have written a script in a GUI editor and saved it in UTF-8 would see garbage in console. Ничего, что я по русски? Вроде все свои :) Я тоже озаботился выбором нормального IDE. Кроме редактора и запускателя скриптов в ide же еще должен быть нормальный отладчик, интеграция с системой контроля версий, автодополнение кода... Под виндами самое приличное из всего увиденного показалось komodo. Да и то, подглюкивает периодически, подвисает, из vcs знает только css да svn. SourceOffSite'а не умеет :( Человеку, привыкшему к нормальному ide от вижуал студии тяжко :) -- С уважением, Alexey mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [Zopyrus] A python IDE for teaching that supports cyrillic i/o
Sorry, but did someone knows if Pida works under Windows ? Thanks. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [Zopyrus] A python IDE for teaching that supports cyrillic i/o
On Sat, Nov 18, 2006 at 09:01:04PM +0200, Kirill Simonov wrote: Could anyone suggest me a simple IDE suitable for teaching Python as a first programming language to high school students? Does it have to be an IDE? Wouldn't it be better to use a simple text editor + command line? Oleg. -- Oleg Broytmannhttp://phd.pp.ru/[EMAIL PROTECTED] Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [Zopyrus] A python IDE for teaching that supports cyrillic i/o
Oleg Broytmann wrote: On Sat, Nov 18, 2006 at 09:01:04PM +0200, Kirill Simonov wrote: Could anyone suggest me a simple IDE suitable for teaching Python as a first programming language to high school students which operating system would this concern? IDLE which you might find comes with python, or is installable separately is a good bet, one nice feature is that when you open up the initial parenthese on a method call, it can list the arguments that the method expects. ipython is very good too, it allows tab completion of class methods/attributes and the like, which can make navigating your way around a new class magnitudes easier. only the former can really be considered an IDE. It'd be great to see them combined somehow. I personally use pida (http://pida.berlios.de). It is perhaps not a beginners IDE, but it has advantages such as being able to plug in a few different editors, some of which are very easy to use. It has a class browser which you can have on a sidebar, integrated docbook support, the ability to open python and other types of shell as part of the window, syntax checking and more. It can aid development to no end. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [Zopyrus] A python IDE for teaching that supports cyrillic i/o
Oleg Broytmann wrote: On Sat, Nov 18, 2006 at 09:01:04PM +0200, Kirill Simonov wrote: Could anyone suggest me a simple IDE suitable for teaching Python as a first programming language to high school students? Does it have to be an IDE? Wouldn't it be better to use a simple text editor + command line? Oleg. Not sure about cyrillic and I don't mean if you are looking for Windows IDE, but I'm impressed with Pyscripter: http://mmm-experts.com/Products.aspx?ProductId=4 -Larry -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [Zopyrus] A python IDE for teaching that supports cyrillic i/o
On Sat, Nov 18, 2006 at 09:22:48PM +0200, Kirill Simonov wrote: On Sat, Nov 18, 2006 at 10:08:22PM +0300, Oleg Broytmann wrote: On Sat, Nov 18, 2006 at 09:01:04PM +0200, Kirill Simonov wrote: Could anyone suggest me a simple IDE suitable for teaching Python as a first programming language to high school students? Does it have to be an IDE? Wouldn't it be better to use a simple text editor + command line? Preferably. I believe that using a editor + command line will only make things worse because console and GUI have different encodings under Windows. Ouch! I am always forgetting about it, 'cause I seldom use Windows, and even in Windows my editor is gvim. (-: Oleg. -- Oleg Broytmannhttp://phd.pp.ru/[EMAIL PROTECTED] Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [Zopyrus] A python IDE for teaching that supports cyrillic i/o
On Sat, Nov 18, 2006 at 07:20:49PM +, tom wrote: Oleg Broytmann wrote: On Sat, Nov 18, 2006 at 09:01:04PM +0200, Kirill Simonov wrote: Could anyone suggest me a simple IDE suitable for teaching Python as a first programming language to high school students which operating system would this concern? IDLE which you might find MS Windows is a must, but having Linux support would be nice too. Unfortunately, IDLE does not work well with non-ASCII input/output. I personally use pida (http://pida.berlios.de). It is perhaps not a Thanks for the suggestion, I'll check it. Thanks, Kirill -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [Zopyrus] A python IDE for teaching that supports cyrillic i/o
On Sat, Nov 18, 2006 at 10:52:35PM +0300, Oleg Broytmann wrote: On Sat, Nov 18, 2006 at 09:22:48PM +0200, Kirill Simonov wrote: Preferably. I believe that using a editor + command line will only make things worse because console and GUI have different encodings under Windows. Ouch! I am always forgetting about it, 'cause I seldom use Windows, and Yeah, that's what Freud called displacement ;) even in Windows my editor is gvim. (-: Me too. Still it would be harsh to force students that might see a PC at the first time to use it. ;) Thanks, Kirill -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [Zopyrus] A python IDE for teaching that supports cyrillic i/o
В сообщении от Воскресенье 19 Ноябрь 2006 01:01 Kirill Simonov написал: first programming language to high school students? It is necessary Unfortunately, most IDEs I tried failed miserably in this respect. My For the record, I've checked IDLE, PythonWin, Eric, DrPython, SPE, and Pardon, eric (eric-3.9.0-alt1 is in use), speak Russian quite well. We are trying to teach schoolers with a Python in an advanced elementary school (9th - 11th). Yes, there is a problem with Cyrillic in eric's built-in interpreter window (KOI8 locale is used) and *only* in the built-in interpreter window, but there is short workaround for it: if avoid # -*- coding... declaration, Cyrillic is painted well. -- Салют, /GLeb UIN: 15341920 jabber://[EMAIL PROTECTED] sip://[EMAIL PROTECTED] (telephony) skype://gleb_kulikov.tomsk (telephony) sip://[EMAIL PROTECTED] (telephony) netmail: 2:5005/78 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [Zopyrus] A python IDE for teaching that supports cyrillic i/o
On Sun, Nov 19, 2006 at 02:49:43AM +0600, Gleb Kulikov wrote: В сообщении от Воскресенье 19 Ноябрь 2006 01:01 Kirill Simonov написал: first programming language to high school students? It is necessary Unfortunately, most IDEs I tried failed miserably in this respect. My For the record, I've checked IDLE, PythonWin, Eric, DrPython, SPE, and Pardon, eric (eric-3.9.0-alt1 is in use), speak Russian quite well. We are trying to teach schoolers with a Python in an advanced elementary school (9th - 11th). Yes, there is a problem with Cyrillic in eric's built-in interpreter window (KOI8 locale is used) and *only* in the built-in interpreter window, but there is short workaround for it: if avoid # -*- coding... declaration, Cyrillic is painted well. Hmm... Perhaps, you are right. I remember quite well seeing UnicodeDecodeError in eric, but now I couldn't reproduce it. Still it would be good if eric could automatically add the BOM mark to files containing non-ASCII characters (for UTF-8). That way the deprecation warning about PEP 263 would be avoided. There is a bigger problem though: it is difficult (if possible) to install it under Windows. Thanks, Kirill -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
