[Pythonmac-SIG] Fink, DarwinPorts vs py2app
The conversation about Fink Darwinports has introduced me to linuxy package managers for the first time, and I have to say, this looks much easier than trying to compile libraries and manage dependencies myself. My question: can I use py2app to build a redistributable app that's statically linked to either package manager's libraries? Or do I have to install Fink/DarwinPorts on each of my clients' machines? (I would like to develop an app that uses numeric, scientific python, wxPython, and matplotlib, which are all somewhat difficult to install by hand, but are all readily available via Fink or DarwinPorts) __ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Fink, DarwinPorts vs py2app
On 8-feb-05, at 15:51, Brendan Simons wrote: The conversation about Fink Darwinports has introduced me to linuxy package managers for the first time, and I have to say, this looks much easier than trying to compile libraries and manage dependencies myself. My question: can I use py2app to build a redistributable app that's statically linked to either package manager's libraries? Or do I have to install Fink/DarwinPorts on each of my clients' machines? (I would like to develop an app that uses numeric, scientific python, wxPython, and matplotlib, which are all somewhat difficult to install by hand, but are all readily available via Fink or DarwinPorts) py2app copies all required shared libraries into your application bundle. System libraries are not copied. Ronald ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Fink, DarwinPorts vs py2app
Bob Ippolito wrote: On 8-feb-05, at 15:51, Brendan Simons wrote: My question: can I use py2app to build a redistributable app that's statically linked to either package manager's libraries? Or do I have to install Fink/DarwinPorts on each of my clients' machines? If you are distributing a single substantial application, py2app is probably the way to go. However, if you are distributing a set of apps, you may not want each one to have a complete copy of everything, so... (I would like to develop an app that uses numeric, scientific python, wxPython, and matplotlib, which are all somewhat difficult to install by hand, but are all readily available via Fink or DarwinPorts) The Fink and Darwinports versions of these will give you X11 versions (particularly wxPython), which you may not want (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong). In fact, if you use fink, you may get it all working with the fink Python. Will py2app bundle a fink python app? And as Bob pointed out, fink, at least, will give you a bunch if libs that duplicate ones that are included with a stock OS-X As to the difficult to install: Numeric is easy, with either setup.py build (once it's fixed...argg!), or even easier, with the mpgk that Bob put out. matplotlib is now easy, thanks to the mpkg that I just put together (only works with Agg and wxPython at the moment, though poorly tested with wxPython. I'm planning on making a GTK and TK compatible version soon, anyone want to help?). Bob, if you're reading this, could post the link? SciPy is probably a pain in the $^%^. I haven't tried it recently. However, my goal is to make an nice OS-X package of this as well. I'm looking for folks to help with that. My impression of fink (and darwinports may be different, I'll be checking that out) is that it's kind of an all-or-nothing proposition. If you want a Linux-like system, running in parallel to OS-X, on the same kernel, you'll be quite happy. If you want it to feel like it's part of OS-X you won't. Being a Linux geek, you'd think I'd be happy with the former, but frankly, If I want Linux,. I'll run Linux (and I do). On OS-X I want OS-X, and, more importantly, folks I work with, that I give apps too, don't want to have anything to do with Linux, command lines, X11, or figuring out apt-get. I really think we can get a complete set of OS-X friendly packages out for all to use. it's really not all that hard, once you've got the tricks figured out. We'll have a MUCH easier time getting folks to use python on OS-X if we have nice friendly binaries for them to install. By the way, what is the status of Package Manger, and the two repositories (Jack's and Bob's) Are they being maintained? should I submit matplotlib to them? If anyone want to help with my SciPy on OS-X project, please let me know. There is some real momentum in the NumPy/SciPy crowd to make SciPy easier to install right now. -Chris -- Christopher Barker, Ph.D. Oceanographer NOAA/ORR/HAZMAT (206) 526-6959 voice 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
[Pythonmac-SIG] REMINDER: OSCON / Python 13 submissions deadline is Feb. 13th
Don't forget that the deadline for submitting a talk or tutorial for OSCON / Python 13 is Sunday, February 13th. ka --- Kevin Altis [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://altis.pycs.net/ The Call for Proposals has just opened for the 7th Annual O'Reilly Open Source Convention http://conferences.oreillynet.com/os2005/ OSCON is headed back to friendly, economical Portland, Oregon during the week of August 1-5, 2005. If you've ever wanted to join the OSCON speaker firmament, now's your chance to submit a proposal (or two) by February 13, 2005. Complete details are available on the OSCON web site, but we're particularly interested in exploring how software development is moving to another level, and how developers and businesses are adjusting to new business models and architectures. We're looking for sessions, tutorials, and workshops proposals that appeal to developers, systems and network administrators, and their managers in the following areas: - All aspects of building applications, services, and systems that use the new capabilities of the open source platform - Burning issues for Java, Mozilla, web apps, and beyond - The commoditization of software: who and/or what can show us the money? - Network-enabled collaboration - Software customizability, including software as a service - Law, licensing, politics, and how best to navigate other troubled waters Specific topics and tracks at OSCON 2005 include: Linux and other open source operating systems, Java, PHP, Python, Perl, Databases (including MySQL and PostgreSQL), Apache, XML, Applications, Ruby, and Security. Attendees have a wide range of experience, so be sure to target a particular level of experience: beginner, intermediate, advanced. Talks and tutorials should be technical; strictly no marketing presentations. Session presentations are 45 or 90 minutes long, and tutorials are either a half-day (3 hours) or a full day (6 hours). Feel free to spread the word about the Call for Proposals to your friends, family, colleagues, and compatriots. We want everyone to submit, from American women hacking artificial life into the Linux kernel to Belgian men building a better mousetrap from PHP and recycled military hardware. We mean everyone! Even if you don't want to participate as a speaker, send us your suggestions--topics you'd like to see covered, groups we should bring into the OSCON fold, extra-curricular activities we should organize--to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . This year, we're moving to the wide open spaces of the Oregon Convention Center. We've arranged for the nearby Doubletree Hotel to be our headquarters hotel--it's a short, free Max light rail ride (or a lovely walk) from the Convention Center. Registration opens in April 2005; hotel information will be available shortly. Deadline to submit a proposal is Midnight (PST), February 13. For all the conference details, go to: http://conferences.oreillynet.com/os2005/ Press coverage, blogs, photos, and news from the 2004 O'Reilly Open Source Convention can be found at: http://www.oreillynet.com/oscon2004/ Would your company like to make a big impression on the open source community? If so, consider exhibiting or becoming a sponsor. Contact Andrew Calvo at (707) 827-7176, or [EMAIL PROTECTED] for more info. See you Portland next summer, The O'Reilly OSCON Team ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] pythonmac Wiki has been spammed.
Bob wrote: I'm not sure who maintain the pythonmac wiki, but it's been spammed. What a pain in the *%*^! Unfortunately I do.. but I don't really have time to deal with the spam. It has a defense in that existing pages can't be edited with too many URLs, but creating new pages lets you use as many URLs as you want. I think I'd rather replace the installation with something else or a newer version of MoinMoin before I go hacking at it any more. How about merging it into the python.org wiki? Let someone else do all the hard work for a change. HTH has -- http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/ ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] pythonmac Wiki has been spammed.
http://pythonmac.org/wiki/TkAqua Bob Unfortunately I do.. but I don't really have time to deal with the Bob spam. It has a defense in that existing pages can't be edited with Bob too many URLs, but creating new pages lets you use as many URLs as Bob you want. I think I'd rather replace the installation with Bob something else or a newer version of MoinMoin before I go hacking Bob at it any more. Bob, I assume you're using MoinMoin 1.2.something. There is a global Moin anti-spam facility you can enable without too much trouble. Take a look at how that's managed for the python.org wiki: http://www.python.org/moin/WikiSpam That also includes a link to the main wiki page for that facility. Skip ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] pythonmac Wiki has been spammed.
On Feb 8, 2005, at 15:22, Skip Montanaro wrote: http://pythonmac.org/wiki/TkAqua Bob Unfortunately I do.. but I don't really have time to deal with the Bob spam. It has a defense in that existing pages can't be edited with Bob too many URLs, but creating new pages lets you use as many URLs as Bob you want. I think I'd rather replace the installation with Bob something else or a newer version of MoinMoin before I go hacking Bob at it any more. I assume you're using MoinMoin 1.2.something. There is a global Moin anti-spam facility you can enable without too much trouble. Take a look at how that's managed for the python.org wiki: http://www.python.org/moin/WikiSpam That also includes a link to the main wiki page for that facility. I think that I implemented that a while ago.. Anyway, I don't really have time to screw with it for at least a few days. If someone else wants to baby it, I'd gladly hand over the keys. -bob ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Fink, DarwinPorts vs py2app
On Feb 8, 2005, at 2:50 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: My impression of fink (and darwinports may be different, I'll be checking that out) is that it's kind of an all-or-nothing proposition. If you want a Linux-like system, running in parallel to OS-X, on the same kernel, you'll be quite happy. If you want it to feel like it's part of OS-X you won't. Being a Linux geek, you'd think I'd be happy with the former, but frankly, If I want Linux,. I'll run Linux (and I do). On OS-X I want OS-X, and, more importantly, folks I work with, that I give apps too, don't want to have anything to do with Linux, command lines, X11, or figuring out apt-get. Darwinports is a lot less all-or-nothing. I have very few things activated from darwinports at a given time and it works and interoperates with the rest of the stuff I have rather well. I really think we can get a complete set of OS-X friendly packages out for all to use. it's really not all that hard, once you've got the tricks figured out. We'll have a MUCH easier time getting folks to use python on OS-X if we have nice friendly binaries for them to install. I agree. You can hardly guess how good the above music sounds to the ears of the Terminal-ly challenged similar Mac-hacking persons like myself. I write goofy linguistic-research apps, I don't do systems stuff. People like me love Python too. Charles Hartman ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
[Pythonmac-SIG] PIL 1.1.5b3 installer for Mac OS X 10.3
I've put together a Mac OS X 10.3 binary installer for PIL 1.1.5b3 available here: http://undefined.org/python/Imaging-1.1.5b3-py2.3-macosx10.3.zip Details are here: http://bob.pythonmac.org/archives/2005/02/08/pil-115b3-for-mac-os-x -103/ -bob ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] pythonmac Wiki has been spammed.
has How about merging it into the python.org wiki? Let someone else do has all the hard work for a change. That thought occurred to me right after I posted my earlier reply. There are several of us that keep a fairly close eye on the python.org wiki. If you want, I'm sure the option to move would be available. Skip ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] pythonmac Wiki has been spammed.
On Feb 8, 2005, at 16:41, Skip Montanaro wrote: has How about merging it into the python.org wiki? Let someone else do has all the hard work for a change. That thought occurred to me right after I posted my earlier reply. There are several of us that keep a fairly close eye on the python.org wiki. If you want, I'm sure the option to move would be available. That works fine for me.. what are the next steps? It would be nice to have our own namespace so that pythonmac.org/wiki/FAQ can still url rewrite to the right place. -bob ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
[Pythonmac-SIG] Re: PIL 1.1.5b3 installer for Mac OS X 10.3
Bob Ippolito wrote: I've put together a Mac OS X 10.3 binary installer for PIL 1.1.5b3 available here: http://undefined.org/python/Imaging-1.1.5b3-py2.3-macosx10.3.zip most excellent. thanks! I've included a pointer to your blog entry in the official announcement. /F ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] pythonmac Wiki has been spammed.
There are several of us that keep a fairly close eye on the python.org wiki. If you want, I'm sure the option to move would be available. Bob That works fine for me.. what are the next steps? It would be nice Bob to have our own namespace so that pythonmac.org/wiki/FAQ can Bob still url rewrite to the right place. Let me check on the python.org maintainers list and get back to you (off-list unless there are others that care about these minutiae). Skip ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
[Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies
I'm a developer who primarily works with higher level languages, and integrated tools. Director, REALbasic, Revolution. I've done plenty of advanced scripting with those tools, and am trying to move into Python for the open-source benefits, among other things. I've just ordered several books which should help me with the scripting hurdles, and the methodologies... but no matter how many web sites I scan, and how many downloads I've done, I can't quite see how to build and maintain a cohesive toolset. There are thousands of individual parts and pieces, lots of semi-working IDEs and debuggers... I've looked through some of the archives for this list, but I've yet to find anything written for Mac users that is aimed at - Getting you, the Mac user who is familiar with scripting, up and running with - 1) Python 2) An IDE and debugger (Xcode?) 3) A GUI toolkit (wxWidgets?) From my end, I think I have evrything running, but I don't know if I want to tackle this without the security of an environment which includes code colorization (if not completion), a debugger, and ideally a interactive interpreter tied in for command line testing. I've taken a look at several of them, but they all seem to have stability issues. Can Xcode behave like what a Python developer would like, with the above mentioned features? Is it easy to set up? If so, that would seem to be the way to go. Is there a better option? I apologize for the newbiness of the post, but Python is a natural location for a lot of different types of people to migrate to, and I've noted a running theme about that in some recent posts here. For those of us with limited command line experience, and no C++ or low-level programming experience, it is a bit bewildering. There is almost too much info available, and none of it is aimed at getting you set up with a development toolset which can really get you off the ground, and behaves anything like an integrated experience. To move from a commercial IDE with many bells and whistles (like Director) into a black and white text editor would seem a bit harsh. Thanks for any insights, suggestions, comments, or reference links. -- Troy Rollins RPSystems, Ltd. www.rpsystems.net ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies
Bob Ippolito wrote: Also, Mac OS X has only been around a few years and there aren't many people working on making it better (though I'm sure there are lots of people using it), so you can't really expect a best of breed solution just yet. True, but frankly, the IDE situation is not that much better on Linux or Windows. Speaking of Java, there's also Eclipse, which has Python support. Has anyone else tried this? I'm still looking for the holy grail of the same IDE on OS-X, Linux and WindowsEclipse looks promising. Troy Rollins wrote: Ha. Fair enough. I guess my point is mostly that Python seems pretty mature, and yet still manages to be scattered. Well, C and C++ are pretty mature, but if want scattered pieces...Remember, Python is a language, not a development environment, and not a commercial product. And these are good things. -Chris -- Christopher Barker, Ph.D. Oceanographer NOAA/ORR/HAZMAT (206) 526-6959 voice 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies
This is a very valid point, but since when has that really mattered to people writing open source software? Windows certainly doesn't seem to have more support from the open source community than anything else. http://sourceforge.net/softwaremap/trove_list.php?form_cat=418 As a counter-point, deploying software on Mac OS X is cheap and fast. You save god knows how much time and money in development and testing (especially testing), so you have much higher profit margins. It doesn't matter how cheap and fast it is for 5% of the market. If you look at open source graphical toolkits that support at least two platforms, you won't find any that started on the Mac. These are the ones I know of that can be used from Python and where they started. - QT (Unix) - GTK (Unix) - wxWidgets (Windows) - Tk (Unix) - Fltk (Unix) - Fox (Unix) Consequently the Mac versions of these (if supported at all) is often not as good as the original platform. That results in a bit of a chicken and egg problem. There is no/little Mac support by other developers because the toolkits are poor, and the toolkits don't improve because noone uses them. Fortunately it just takes some sustained efforts, even just bug reporting and things get better. wxWidgets has gotten a lot better although there are still holes. For the OP, one choice is to try and help improve a toolkit at the same time as doing their own project. It will end up improving things for many more developers and users. Virtualization software is useful (and I'd love it to death if it was around), but I've found it to be rarely necessary for Mac OS X development. It solves many configuration management and testing issues. It also lets the developer use the machine. For example I can't use the Apple Addressbook or Calendar programs for my real data. I fill them with all sorts of test data. (Fast user switching sort of helps but brings other issues). And you really need virtualisation when you have to deal with versioning issues of core system components or the OS itself. For BitPim we have to do seperate 10.2 and 10.3 builds, and there are now all sorts of 10.2 issues that aren't addressed. When Tiger comes out things will get even worse as developers will have to decide which version to make their primary supported OS version. QEMU has some support for emulating a PPC system. Maybe that will work in the future. Roger ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies
On Feb 9, 2005, at 12:07 AM, Roger Binns wrote: This is a very valid point, but since when has that really mattered to people writing open source software? Windows certainly doesn't seem to have more support from the open source community than anything else. http://sourceforge.net/softwaremap/trove_list.php?form_cat=418 Yeah, exactly. There's not even twice as many Windows projects as Mac OS X projects, and far more Linux projects that Windows projects. These numbers aren't very good anyway, NetBSD's pkgsrc has over 5300 packages, and there are 204 marked NetBSD on sourceforge! As a counter-point, deploying software on Mac OS X is cheap and fast. You save god knows how much time and money in development and testing (especially testing), so you have much higher profit margins. It doesn't matter how cheap and fast it is for 5% of the market. Sure it does, if you release OS X first it can fund Windows development and testing. Worked fine for us. If you look at open source graphical toolkits that support at least two platforms, you won't find any that started on the Mac. These are the ones I know of that can be used from Python and where they started. - QT (Unix) - GTK (Unix) - wxWidgets (Windows) - Tk (Unix) - Fltk (Unix) - Fox (Unix) Consequently the Mac versions of these (if supported at all) is often not as good as the original platform. That results in a bit of a chicken and egg problem. There is no/little Mac support by other developers because the toolkits are poor, and the toolkits don't improve because noone uses them. I think we're probably going to have real GNUStep support for PyObjC sometime in the next few months.. though I'm not sure whether the NeXT roots count as Mac or not. Fortunately it just takes some sustained efforts, even just bug reporting and things get better. wxWidgets has gotten a lot better although there are still holes. For the OP, one choice is to try and help improve a toolkit at the same time as doing their own project. It will end up improving things for many more developers and users. That's definitely an option with any open source dependency :) -bob ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
