Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Download page on www.python.org now updated
At 5:56 PM -0600 3/1/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ronald The page looks fine, but it might be better to remove the icon Ronald or replace it by the current MacPython icon (the 16 ton Ronald weight). It's not that I don't like the snake, but some people Ronald claim a lifelike snake will scare some (potential) users and Ronald furthermore the snake-icon isn't actually used by MacPython Ronald (yet?). I believe Bill has svn access now, so I'll leave that to him to decide. Skip I've been lurking on this list since early 2002 (and I can't tell you-all how much I've picked up listening - it has been incredibly helpful), but I feel it is finally time to say something. I LIKE the python squeezing the apple. The 16 ton icon is not only amateurish, it is so indirect an in joke as to be inscrutable to anyone coming new to the party. When I first saw it (back in OS 9 days) I thought it was supposed to represent Python's ability to do heavy lifting for the user. Until, or unless Guido himself officially signs off on an icon that _has_ to be used - I'd say stick with this one. It at least looks professional. There, got it off my chest, Bill PS: If it REALLY is a problem for some people, offer them an alternative in the post-flight phase of the installer. -- _ /~\ The ASCII | William R. Wing, PhD. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 865-574-8839 \ / Ribbon Campaign | Network Architect, Oak Ridge National Laboratory X Against HTML| Network Research Group, Computer Sci Math Div. / \ Email! |_ ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Download page on www.python.org now updated
On Thursday, March 02, 2006, at 01:40PM, W. R. Wing [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 5:56 PM -0600 3/1/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ronald The page looks fine, but it might be better to remove the icon Ronald or replace it by the current MacPython icon (the 16 ton Ronald weight). It's not that I don't like the snake, but some people Ronald claim a lifelike snake will scare some (potential) users and Ronald furthermore the snake-icon isn't actually used by MacPython Ronald (yet?). I believe Bill has svn access now, so I'll leave that to him to decide. Skip I've been lurking on this list since early 2002 (and I can't tell you-all how much I've picked up listening - it has been incredibly helpful), but I feel it is finally time to say something. I LIKE the python squeezing the apple. The 16 ton icon is not only amateurish, it is so indirect an in joke as to be inscrutable to anyone coming new to the party. When I first saw it (back in OS 9 days) I thought it was supposed to represent Python's ability to do heavy lifting for the user. Until, or unless Guido himself officially signs off on an icon that _has_ to be used - I'd say stick with this one. It at least looks professional. The 16 ton icon stays until someone brings a better alternative. Please remember that it is not just 1 icon, but a set of them: One each for IDLE, BuildApplet and .py files. Ideally there would also be one for py2app application bundles where the user hasn't provided his own icon. The reason I don't like having the snake on the website is that the icon will not match the icons used by the various applications installed by the macpython installer. Ronald ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] universal binary installer, take 1
On Thursday, March 02, 2006, at 02:20PM, Jerome Laheurte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 1 Mar 2006, Ronald Oussoren wrote: On 28-feb-2006, at 22:07, Ronald Oussoren wrote: Known issues: - regrtest -uall crashes somewhere in test_db3 (bus error) I don't understand why yet, but the build seems to have picked up another version of libdb that I had expected. _bsddb.so is a PPC only binary and claims to be 4.3.29 instead of the 4.4.x version I wanted it to be. Python 2.4.2 doesn't support 4.4; I submitted a patch here: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=1441660group_id=5470atid=305470 The tree at svn.pythonmac.org already contains that patch, maybe it is based on the 2.4.x branch of python instead of the 2.4.2 release. Bob? test_bsddb3 seems to behave better after I patched setup.py to look for bsddb at the right location. Ronald ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Download page on www.python.org now updated
Ron Oussoren writes: The 16 ton icon stays until someone brings a better alternative. W. R. Wing writes: I LIKE the python squeezing the apple. The 16 ton icon is not only amateurish, it is so indirect an in joke as to be inscrutable to anyone coming new to the party. I agree with Wing. So there *is* a better alternative, and there's now a MacPython.icns file at http://bill.janssen.org/mac/MacPython.icns with the snake wrapped around the Apple. Feel free to use it where it fits. But Ron objects: The page looks fine, but it might be better to remove the icon or replace it by the current MacPython icon (the 16 ton weight). The 16-ton weight screams done by amateurs for a toy computer. The sooner it's stamped out, the better. And further explains: It's not that I don't like the snake, but some people claim a lifelike snake will scare some (potential) users and furthermore the snake-icon isn't actually used by MacPython (yet?). As we know, some people will claim anything. The snake/apple icon is all over the MacPython pages, that's where it comes from. The new Python web site has finally switched to a snake-based logo, as well. As for scaring users: I feel sympathy for folks who have pathological fears of almost anything, including drawings of snakes. I think, though, it might be kinder to repel those folks immediately, rather than helping them overcome their incipient nausea at the very idea of a language called Python, and getting to use it. Such use might cause a nasty amount of subconscious angst, expressed in -- who knows -- continuous nightmares? Random acts of violence? Surely better to act up front! More snakes on the web page! Bill ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Download page on www.python.org now updated
On Mar 2, 2006, at 9:55 AM, Bill Janssen wrote: Ron Oussoren writes: The 16 ton icon stays until someone brings a better alternative. Stop with the 16 ton weight/snakes/apples debate. Just use the new, official, python logo, which is a stylized icon that isn't going to offend anybody, is vector so will look good at any size, and looks very, very professional. I don't see any reason to indicate macness/ appleness in the logo. It's python. You are using it on a Mac. Everyone already knows Apple makes macs. http://beta.python.org/images/python-logo.gif dp ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Download page on www.python.org now updated
On 3/2/06 9:55 AM, Bill Janssen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ron Oussoren writes:
The 16 ton icon stays until someone brings a better alternative.
W. R. Wing writes:
I LIKE the python squeezing the apple. The 16 ton icon is not only
amateurish, it is so indirect an in joke as to be inscrutable to
anyone coming new to the party.
I agree with Wing. So there *is* a better alternative, and there's
now a MacPython.icns file at
http://bill.janssen.org/mac/MacPython.icns with the snake wrapped
around the Apple. Feel free to use it where it fits.
That leads to a web page that looks like this:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]@ÀÀü þ þ?þ?þþþþü?ü ø àis32
Ý
È·wwtx »ÃÒÙ³¿Ö|c § §y|¤B }rS?8HYo{; scn{t9|{ÍLz
}xxs{qt²WKÁþiy~{óªyÝáe¿«xw¹ÿéQ{~_ÿéËɤ-IÜmöÏpGµ« ©¥q8
/
ÎÈ
[EMAIL PROTECTED] y
pR9FXjtn|8 n_aozj3ksÇy{srlvos°LE¿ÿew}5yòdkÅÕ]¼«wv¶òÇCdfiPóâ
ÈÄr=~¸_Ûºb=p ^/mx(
¨£x
8Q(8.dDRSQj\'fZ
(ad infinitum). Was it maybe supposed to have a different type of encoding,
or URL address? If there's another way to access it in Safari, I can't find
it. If I remove the MacPython.icns from the URL I get a Forbidden. If I
remove just the .icns, I get a nice 404. If I remove mac/MacPython.icns
I get to your main page, but don't see a link.
But Ron objects:
The page looks fine, but it might be better to remove the icon or
replace it by the current MacPython icon (the 16 ton weight).
The 16-ton weight screams done by amateurs for a toy computer. The
sooner it's stamped out, the better.
And further explains:
It's not that I don't like the snake, but some people claim a
lifelike snake will scare some (potential) users and furthermore the
snake-icon isn't actually used by MacPython (yet?).
As we know, some people will claim anything. The snake/apple icon is
all over the MacPython pages, that's where it comes from. The new
Python web site has finally switched to a snake-based logo, as well.
As for scaring users: I feel sympathy for folks who have pathological
fears of almost anything, including drawings of snakes. I think,
though, it might be kinder to repel those folks immediately, rather
than helping them overcome their incipient nausea at the very idea of
a language called Python, and getting to use it. Such use might
cause a nasty amount of subconscious angst, expressed in -- who knows
-- continuous nightmares? Random acts of violence?
Surely better to act up front! More snakes on the web page!
The 16-ton icon looks horrible. I'm keen to see the snake, if you can
provide a link that works. Thanks.
But I think Donovan has the right idea. The new official Python icon looks
great. This is Python, use the Python logo.
--
Paul Berkowitz
___
Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Download page on www.python.org now updated
Donovan Preston wrote: Stop with the 16 ton weight/snakes/apples debate. Just use the new, official, python logo, +1 -- Christopher Barker, Ph.D. Oceanographer NOAA/ORR/HAZMAT (206) 526-6959 voice 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Download page on www.python.org now updated
On 2-mrt-2006, at 18:55, Bill Janssen wrote: Ron Oussoren writes: The 16 ton icon stays until someone brings a better alternative. W. R. Wing writes: I LIKE the python squeezing the apple. The 16 ton icon is not only amateurish, it is so indirect an in joke as to be inscrutable to anyone coming new to the party. I agree with Wing. So there *is* a better alternative, and there's now a MacPython.icns file at http://bill.janssen.org/mac/MacPython.icns with the snake wrapped around the Apple. Feel free to use it where it fits. That's just one icon, we need several icons. At least we now have a consistent set of icons. An historical looking set of icons, but a *set* of icons. Surely better to act up front! More snakes on the web page! But Python isn't named after snakes ;-) ;-) Ronald Bill ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Download page on www.python.org now updated
Surely better to act up front! More snakes on the web page! Ronald But Python isn't named after snakes ;-) ;-) True enough, but I think even Guido has abandoned that argument. Had it been named Monty Python, Cleese or Cheeseshop you might have a leg to stand on, but it's just Python. Many people younger than 30 will not understand the reference. Most people outside North America and Europe won't know what it means either. I think you just have to accept that snakes are going to be part of the package. Skip ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Download page on www.python.org now updated
That's just one icon, we need several icons. At least we now have a consistent set of icons. An historical looking set of icons, but a *set* of icons. Yes, I comprehend, several different icons for the various applications are needed. The base logo is just a starting place. Surely better to act up front! More snakes on the web page! But Python isn't named after snakes ;-) ;-) Doesn't matter. The dominant connotation is snakish, and therefore scary to susceptible folk. I think they should be gently steered towards Lisp (unfortunate connotation there) or perhaps Ruby (hard to argue with that connotation). Bill ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Download page on www.python.org now updated
Hi Bill, On Mar 2, 2006, at 2:28 PM, Bill Janssen wrote: That's just one icon, we need several icons. At least we now have a consistent set of icons. An historical looking set of icons, but a *set* of icons. Yes, I comprehend, several different icons for the various applications are needed. The base logo is just a starting place. Surely better to act up front! More snakes on the web page! But Python isn't named after snakes ;-) ;-) Doesn't matter. The dominant connotation is snakish, and therefore scary to susceptible folk. I think they should be gently steered towards Lisp (unfortunate connotation there) or perhaps Ruby (hard to argue with that connotation). Okay, this is all getting a bit silly, but I'll respond just for the record. With all due respect, I think you're being condescending. No one's going to freak out by seeing the PyGame picture, or the mod_python Apache picture, or the beta.python.org logo, or the Windows icon, or need I go on? They don't scare or bother anyone, and I have yet to hear of anyone who is bothered by the very word Python. The issue is with that particular icon. It doesn't convey, shall we say, positive imagery. Scary, dangerous, and the snake as temptor and devil are not I think ideas which accurately represent the Python programming language, nor accurately reflect the outlook of its community. Do you? Maybe you think it's a joke that some people would see the icon as creepy, or downright offensive, but whether or not the imagery in the icon was intended (which I doubt it was, except perhaps as a joke), it is there, and some people viewing it are certainly going to think it was intentional. If you want a new icon, and you all are simply unable to be patient and see what I'm able to come up with, do what Donovan said and go with the official Python icon. At least no one will be scared or offended by that. Of course, if you do so and say the issue is settled, I'm going to be more than a little upset because I was asked to look into generating an icon, I have done so and even found someone who has already done some initial work on it, and I'm going to have to tell this person to scrap their work simply because you guys are impatient. We're not working on your dime, you know. You and Chris asked for a favor and I agreed, and in fact I put a fair amount of time into researching what was out there and finally found someone interested a few days ago, but then when I can't produce something for you at lightning speed you just want to say forget it? I mean, seriously, you can't wait a few weeks on changing an icon that has been used for what, almost a decade? Kevin Bill ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
