[Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
Does anyone else have as much trouble as me trying to format floppy disk drives I have a Windows 7 (64 bit) PC with a USB floppy disk drive. Unfortunately, although QPC2 and Q-emuLator can normally read a DD disk, it is a real pain to find one they can format. QPC2 normally accesses the disk once, then waits about 20 seconds, then accesses it further and reports format failed. Q-emuLator looks at the drive, then says - the media is not recognised - it may not be formatted. However any attempt to format the disk just fails to do anything Sometimes it works though... Infuriating! -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk http://www.rwapservices.co.uk -- Try out our new site: http://sellmyretro.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
On 14/06/2010 16:00, Rich Mellor wrote: Does anyone else have as much trouble as me trying to format floppy disk drives I have a Windows 7 (64 bit) PC with a USB floppy disk drive. Unfortunately, although QPC2 and Q-emuLator can normally read a DD disk, it is a real pain to find one they can format. QPC2 normally accesses the disk once, then waits about 20 seconds, then accesses it further and reports format failed. Q-emuLator looks at the drive, then says - the media is not recognised - it may not be formatted. However any attempt to format the disk just fails to do anything Sometimes it works though... Infuriating! Actually, if I unplug the USB and plug it back in, I can normally get Q-emuLator to recognise the disk and format it, but not QPC2. However, once formatted in Q-emuLator, even if QPC2 reports format failed, it will still save to the disk successfully. I wonder if it struggles with the lack of the read-only signal from the drive... -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk http://www.rwapservices.co.uk -- Try out our new site: http://sellmyretro.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
Am Montag, den 14.06.2010, 16:00 +0100 schrieb Rich Mellor: Does anyone else have as much trouble as me trying to format floppy disk drives I have a Windows 7 (64 bit) PC with a USB floppy disk drive. Unfortunately, although QPC2 and Q-emuLator can normally read a DD disk, it is a real pain to find one they can format. QPC2 normally accesses the disk once, then waits about 20 seconds, then accesses it further and reports format failed. Q-emuLator looks at the drive, then says - the media is not recognised - it may not be formatted. However any attempt to format the disk just fails to do anything Sometimes it works though... Infuriating! Hi Rich, probably has something to do with Windows 7: The Microsoft guys have removed native support for 720k formatting from all Windows 7 stuff (If you try to format a floppy with the built-in tools, it will only offer 1440k, not 720k like XP/Vista did). My windows 7 box can't do that either (be it from inside QPC or outside), while it works perfectly on XP and Vista. I help myself with a pack of pre-formatted disks I created on an XP box. Regards Tobias ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
On 14 Jun 2010, at 16:00, Rich Mellor wrote: Does anyone else have as much trouble as me trying to format floppy disk drives I have a Windows 7 (64 bit) PC with a USB floppy disk drive. Unfortunately, although QPC2 and Q-emuLator can normally read a DD disk, it is a real pain to find one they can format. QPC2 normally accesses the disk once, then waits about 20 seconds, then accesses it further and reports format failed. Q-emuLator looks at the drive, then says - the media is not recognised - it may not be formatted. However any attempt to format the disk just fails to do anything Sometimes it works though... Infuriating! I have just successfully formatted a totally new DD floppy disk using QPC2 on Windows Xp. This took a minute. The instruction I gave was: format 'flp1_Dab*D' George ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
On 14/06/2010 16:11, gdgqler wrote: On 14 Jun 2010, at 16:00, Rich Mellor wrote: Does anyone else have as much trouble as me trying to format floppy disk drives I have a Windows 7 (64 bit) PC with a USB floppy disk drive. Unfortunately, although QPC2 and Q-emuLator can normally read a DD disk, it is a real pain to find one they can format. QPC2 normally accesses the disk once, then waits about 20 seconds, then accesses it further and reports format failed. Q-emuLator looks at the drive, then says - the media is not recognised - it may not be formatted. However any attempt to format the disk just fails to do anything Sometimes it works though... Infuriating! I have just successfully formatted a totally new DD floppy disk using QPC2 on Windows Xp. This took a minute. The instruction I gave was: format 'flp1_Dab*D' George ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm Oddly enough many years ago, I wrote a small utility which allowed you to set the floppy format to use On SMSQ/e for Super Gold Card, if you did FORMAT 'flp1_test*H' on a High Density disk, or FORMAT 'flp1_test*E' on a Extra Density disk, that worked fine. But if you tried FORMAT 'flp1_test*D' on a Double Density disk after using one of the above commands, the format always failed! -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk http://www.rwapservices.co.uk -- Try out our new site: http://sellmyretro.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
On 14/06/2010 16:11, Tobias Fröschle wrote: Am Montag, den 14.06.2010, 16:00 +0100 schrieb Rich Mellor: Does anyone else have as much trouble as me trying to format floppy disk drives I have a Windows 7 (64 bit) PC with a USB floppy disk drive. Unfortunately, although QPC2 and Q-emuLator can normally read a DD disk, it is a real pain to find one they can format. QPC2 normally accesses the disk once, then waits about 20 seconds, then accesses it further and reports format failed. Q-emuLator looks at the drive, then says - the media is not recognised - it may not be formatted. However any attempt to format the disk just fails to do anything Sometimes it works though... Infuriating! Hi Rich, probably has something to do with Windows 7: The Microsoft guys have removed native support for 720k formatting from all Windows 7 stuff (If you try to format a floppy with the built-in tools, it will only offer 1440k, not 720k like XP/Vista did). My windows 7 box can't do that either (be it from inside QPC or outside), while it works perfectly on XP and Vista. I help myself with a pack of pre-formatted disks I created on an XP box. Regards Tobias ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm I think it probably is a Windows 7 issue - I never had the problem on Windows XP, but then I never had a USB floppy drive with XP -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk http://www.rwapservices.co.uk -- Try out our new site: http://sellmyretro.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
I think it probably is a Windows 7 issue - I never had the problem on Windows XP, but then I never had a USB floppy drive with XP Worked fine here with Win XP all the time - with two different USB floppies which I used to bring to the shows in the past 6 or 7 years. Jochen ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
Rich Mellor wrote, on 14/Jun/10 16:15 | Jun14: I think it probably is a Windows 7 issue - I never had the problem on Windows XP, but then I never had a USB floppy drive with XP Indeed. Once I realised it was drive B, despite the fact that there was no other floppy, it worked fine under XP. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
On 14 Jun 2010, at 16:16, Jochen Merz wrote: I think it probably is a Windows 7 issue - I never had the problem on Windows XP, but then I never had a USB floppy drive with XP Worked fine here with Win XP all the time - with two different USB floppies which I used to bring to the shows in the past 6 or 7 years. It seems that Windows 7 is not a good idea. George ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
probably has something to do with Windows 7: The Microsoft guys have removed native support for 720k formatting from all Windows 7 stuff (If you try to format a floppy with the built-in tools, it will only offer 1440k, not 720k like XP/Vista did). My windows 7 box can't do that either (be it from inside QPC or outside), while it works perfectly on XP and Vista. I help myself with a pack of pre-formatted disks I created on an XP box. Regards Tobias Seems the most obvious explanation under Windows 7! Looks like Rich has been micro-shafted by M$. Some time ago I reviewed a USB floppy drive for Quanta and it worked brilliantly (albeit under XP) at first. Then mysteriously it started being awkward with DD disks, sometimes it would format correctly, sometimes it wouldn't. (whether using *D or *H) I tried formatting the disks on the Aurora and QL, then reformatting them on the USB drive to see what happened. Reliability improved, but was not perfect, sometimes it would format the disk as a HD even though the disk was DD, probably down to what Rich suggested with the drive sensor (or lack of). The same disks would usually format perfectly on the built in floppy drive on this PC (also XP)! If you manage to find a solution, can you post it here? Would be useful information as more and more people use QL emulators on Windows 7 machines. Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
On 14/06/2010 16:34, Dilwyn Jones wrote: probably has something to do with Windows 7: The Microsoft guys have removed native support for 720k formatting from all Windows 7 stuff (If you try to format a floppy with the built-in tools, it will only offer 1440k, not 720k like XP/Vista did). My windows 7 box can't do that either (be it from inside QPC or outside), while it works perfectly on XP and Vista. I help myself with a pack of pre-formatted disks I created on an XP box. Regards Tobias Seems the most obvious explanation under Windows 7! Looks like Rich has been micro-shafted by M$. Some time ago I reviewed a USB floppy drive for Quanta and it worked brilliantly (albeit under XP) at first. Then mysteriously it started being awkward with DD disks, sometimes it would format correctly, sometimes it wouldn't. (whether using *D or *H) I tried formatting the disks on the Aurora and QL, then reformatting them on the USB drive to see what happened. Reliability improved, but was not perfect, sometimes it would format the disk as a HD even though the disk was DD, probably down to what Rich suggested with the drive sensor (or lack of). The same disks would usually format perfectly on the built in floppy drive on this PC (also XP)! If you manage to find a solution, can you post it here? Would be useful information as more and more people use QL emulators on Windows 7 machines. Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm Well, I've lurked on the list for a while since I hung up the QBranch boots in the closet but recent posts deserve some comment I suppose. I will start with the floppy issue. Way back when I was doing lots of shows I decided that you could not format DD disks under QPC2 on any of my PCs. In fact I brought a QL / Aurora and monitor to many shows just to format disks. Firstly it was far too slow and secondly it failed too often. I was not typing it in at the command line because that was too slow at a show. Formatting was haphazard and took ages. I mentioned it on several occasions and got the usual 'does not happen here' response. Understandably hard to pin down. I did, however, find that formatting the disks using Disk Mate 5 usually worked fine - on all of the systems - so I hazard the guess that it is not a problem with Microsoft but something else. I have have not tried under Windows 7 on this sytem but then it is hardly surprising that the ability to format a 20+ year old disk has been removed from a new system. This is like complaining that your CD player won't play 78s.No one uses floppy disks any more. Which brings me onto the 'future of the QL' debate. Nothing has a future if it does not move. All the while I was writing 'Byts of Wood' I was up against the fact that there was nothing to write about. Nothing new. No point in being a trader for a static community if all you are advertising is the same stuff that everyone already owns. Then, when you come up with a great system to make things better, no one buys it (QDT of course). There may well be 500+ users on Rich's database but what are they doing with the QL? What has he sold them? The odd keyboard membrane, disk expansion,? How many repeat sales? Data is only of use if it has a context. In all the time I was a trader there were very few ground breakers and they gradually fell by the wayside through lack of support and sales. This has been the most active conversation on this list for ages and a while back there were people talking about how to print - a subject that has been round the track more times than a sprinter with Alzheimers. When the QL community was thriving it was moving forward with ideas flowing. These last years it has been inward looking and characterised by infighting and lack of inspiration. I have not seen QL Today since I stopped distributing it but I am still a member of Quanta and I see nothing new there. If you want it to continue then you have to stop complaining and waffling on this list and write programs, have ideas and innovate. No point in magazines and user groups if there is nothing new to say or do. (BTW the Sussex group stopped meeting years back because there was nothing new to do and the only reason it says that we no longer have a venue is that Quanta was too lazy to contact us and just printed the same message every time.) This may all seem a bit harsh but, like a jolt to the heart in teh case case of cardiac arrest, sometimes you need a defibrilator to restore a pulse. The paddles are in your hands - don't wait for the flat line. -- Roy Wood ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks
Op Mon, 14 Jun 2010 18:14:29 +0300 schreef Rich Mellor r...@rwapservices.co.uk: Oddly enough many years ago, I wrote a small utility which allowed you to set the floppy format to use On SMSQ/e for Super Gold Card, if you did FORMAT 'flp1_test*H' on a High Density disk, or FORMAT 'flp1_test*E' on a Extra Density disk, that worked fine. But if you tried FORMAT 'flp1_test*D' on a Double Density disk after using one of the above commands, the format always failed! As far as I know formatting DD under SMSQ/E for the Super Gold Card has been broken since version 2.93. Files can be read but writing locks up the machine. I hardly use DD's anymore but if needed, I start my QL or Aurora under QDOS. I even find ED formatting more reliable there. I have never formatted floppies from QPC before but I tested it just now with QPC2 v3.34 Vista to a USB drive. Formatting, writing to and reading from a HD or DD disk went without problems, only a bit slow. Bob -- The BSJR QL software site at: http://members.chello.nl/b.spelten/ql/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] USB Floppy Disks and The QL Future
On 15/06/2010 00:15, Roy Wood wrote: Which brings me onto the 'future of the QL' debate. Nothing has a future if it does not move. All the while I was writing 'Byts of Wood' I was up against the fact that there was nothing to write about. Nothing new. No point in being a trader for a static community if all you are advertising is the same stuff that everyone already owns. Then, when you come up with a great system to make things better, no one buys it (QDT of course). There may well be 500+ users on Rich's database but what are they doing with the QL? What has he sold them? The odd keyboard membrane, disk expansion,? How many repeat sales? Data is only of use if it has a context. In all the time I was a trader there were very few ground breakers and they gradually fell by the wayside through lack of support and sales. This has been the most active conversation on this list for ages and a while back there were people talking about how to print - a subject that has been round the track more times than a sprinter with Alzheimers. When the QL community was thriving it was moving forward with ideas flowing. These last years it has been inward looking and characterised by infighting and lack of inspiration. I have not seen QL Today since I stopped distributing it but I am still a member of Quanta and I see nothing new there. If you want it to continue then you have to stop complaining and waffling on this list and write programs, have ideas and innovate. No point in magazines and user groups if there is nothing new to say or do. (BTW the Sussex group stopped meeting years back because there was nothing new to do and the only reason it says that we no longer have a venue is that Quanta was too lazy to contact us and just printed the same message every time.) This may all seem a bit harsh but, like a jolt to the heart in teh case case of cardiac arrest, sometimes you need a defibrilator to restore a pulse. The paddles are in your hands - don't wait for the flat line. I wasn't going to contribute to the QL future debate but Roy's reply (good to hear from you by the way) has prompted me to. If you look at the communities surrounding the old computers, whether they be sinclair, commodore, atari or whatever - in nearly all cases it's the games that keep the computers alive. Yes, there are hardware innovations, but it's nearly always the ability to load games quicker that prompts the development - the div-ide interface for the spectrum springs to mind. People unfamiliar with the QL aren't going to want to try and use a word processor from the 80s when the one installed on their PC is 100 times better. The availability of software is also something that isn't there in the QL community. Search for just about any other 80s computer and you'll find a wealth of software available on the net. The legality of these downloads may be suspect but they're there - search for QL software and what do you find? One or two sites offering compilers and productivity software or asking you to purchase games. The QL is a fairly obscure platform and no one that is unfamiliar with it is going to pay money for something on the off chance that it might be good. There is another problem with QL software - it's fragmented. Some software will run on a basic QL for which you can download an emulator. Other software requires an enhanced system for which you need to either have the hardware to run it or purchase an emulator. For just about every other 80s or 90s computer you can download an emulator that will run all the software for that machine. I think we need to face the fact that the QL is almost a dead machine. People aren't willing to invest money in something if they have no compelling reason to use it and let's face it most people don't even know what the QL is! There are thriving homebrew communities for a lot of the old computers but the QL isn't one of them. Why is this? It's not a money thing, a lot of homebrew software is given away free. Basically there aren't that many people who are bothered about the QL - why write something for the QL when you could write something for the Spectrum and get a wider audience? The QL is a dwindling niche market and while people continue charging not inconsiderable sums for software it will remain that way (until it dwindles into oblivion). Sorry for the rant - I think I've had too many glasses of wine this evening! Regards, Phil ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
