Re: [R] The Perils of PowerPoint
For some reason (probably that our organisation has blocked the site) I could not see the original articles that prompted the post. I however immediately assumed that this was precipitated by Tufte and his comments about PowerPoint (I recall seeing a good example of PowerPoint on his site) http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/powerpoint When this first came up I recall some dispute about the comments www.sociablemedia.com/articles_dispute.htm and that John Fox did something http://ils.unc.edu/~jfox/powerpoint/introduction.html that I enjoyed reading. Other links that are lying on my computer are In defense of PowerPoint http://www.jnd.org/dn.mss/in_defense_of_powerp.html and Does PowerPoint make you stupid? at http://www.presentations.com/presentations/delivery/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000482464 Tom -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Tim Churches Sent: Saturday, 3 September 2005 10:08 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Achim Zeileis; r-help@stat.math.ethz.ch Subject: Re: [R] The Perils of PowerPoint (Ted Harding) wrote: By the way, the Washington Post/Minneapolis Star Tribune article is somewhat reminiscent of a short (15 min) broadcast on BBC Radio 4 back on October 18 2004 15:45-16:00 called Microsoft Powerpoint and the Decline of Civilisation which explores similar themes and also frequently quotes Tufte. Unfortunately it lapsed for ever from Listen Again after the statutory week, so I can't point you to a replay. (However, I have carefully preserved the cassette recording I made). Try http://sooper.org/misc/powerpoint.mp3 (copyright law notwithstanding...) Tim C __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] The Perils of PowerPoint
Mulholland, Tom wrote: For some reason (probably that our organisation has blocked the site) I could not see the original articles that prompted the post. I however immediately assumed that this was precipitated by Tufte and his comments about PowerPoint (I recall seeing a good example of PowerPoint on his site) http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/powerpoint When this first came up I recall some dispute about the comments www.sociablemedia.com/articles_dispute.htm and that John Fox did something http://ils.unc.edu/~jfox/powerpoint/introduction.html that I enjoyed reading. I think that's by a different Fox named Jackson, not John. It's an interesting reading, though. Duncan Murdoch Other links that are lying on my computer are In defense of PowerPoint http://www.jnd.org/dn.mss/in_defense_of_powerp.html and Does PowerPoint make you stupid? at http://www.presentations.com/presentations/delivery/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000482464 Tom -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Tim Churches Sent: Saturday, 3 September 2005 10:08 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Achim Zeileis; r-help@stat.math.ethz.ch Subject: Re: [R] The Perils of PowerPoint (Ted Harding) wrote: By the way, the Washington Post/Minneapolis Star Tribune article is somewhat reminiscent of a short (15 min) broadcast on BBC Radio 4 back on October 18 2004 15:45-16:00 called Microsoft Powerpoint and the Decline of Civilisation which explores similar themes and also frequently quotes Tufte. Unfortunately it lapsed for ever from Listen Again after the statutory week, so I can't point you to a replay. (However, I have carefully preserved the cassette recording I made). Try http://sooper.org/misc/powerpoint.mp3 (copyright law notwithstanding...) Tim C __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] The Perils of PowerPoint
On 06-Sep-05 Mulholland, Tom wrote: For some reason (probably that our organisation has blocked the site) I could not see the original articles that prompted the post. I however immediately assumed that this was precipitated by Tufte and his comments about PowerPoint (I recall seeing a good example of PowerPoint on his site) http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/powerpoint When this first came up I recall some dispute about the comments www.sociablemedia.com/articles_dispute.htm and that John Fox did something http://ils.unc.edu/~jfox/powerpoint/introduction.html that I enjoyed reading. Other links that are lying on my computer are In defense of PowerPoint http://www.jnd.org/dn.mss/in_defense_of_powerp.html and Does PowerPoint make you stupid? at http://www.presentations.com/presentations/delivery/ article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000482464 Tom Thanks, Tom, for these pointers to interesting discussions! One must of course agree with the general comments to the effect that the quality and merits of a presentation are the result of choices made by the person who designed it, and not primarily due to the software itself. It is also true that software such as PowerPoint provides ready-made mechanisms for linking-in a great variety of content, thereby making it -- in principle -- easier for the designer to choose judiciously what would be best for the result they wish to achieve and -- in principle -- to design an outstanding presentation. It is nevertheless still true that in practice the result is often dreadful, for reasons which largely reside in the software (but which take effect by virtue of user deficiency). I tend to put this down to the provision of so-called Wizards -- in reality electronic snake-oil merchants -- the protoype of which is the dancing paper-clip masquerading as an Office Assistant. There are other resources which can have similar effects -- spell-checkers, grammar-checkers, auto-formatters which brush you aside and re-arrange your intentions and which can be difficult to evade: indeed, one can form the impression that it has been deliberately made difficult for users to ignore these things and make their own choices. In case you may wonder how I hope to bring this On-Topic, it is as follows. The result of such things is that users' thought and practice become software-led and software-driven. The software is both carrot and stick. The user is the donkey. In contrast, as software and in its implementation as a compendium of resources and documentation, R expects users to know what they are doing and to understand the rationale of the methods. R also requires users to have the capability to locate necessary inforamtion in the documentation. Indeed, one might even describe R documentation as notoriously unintrusive! So using R should educate users in thoughtful and judicious use of statistical software. The same cannot be said so wholeheartedly of S-Plus. While the latter is basically routine-equivalent to R, and the help and menu systems properly used can also encourage judicious use, there is nevertheless a superficial aspect which can seduce users into a check-box mentality; and the printed manuals strike me as both unclear and unduly prescriptive. In other words, while S-Plus may tend to attract users who do not know what to do and who expect the softare to tell them what to do (and subsequently will not know what they have done), R will not. This spartan environment is lean and healthy, so successful R users will become lean and healthy! Not donkeys, but mountain-goats. R-help is there for those who need it, and very few responses to queries have been at all superficial. Often it is clear that respondents themselves have had to think before being able to come up with an answer, and very often the response urges the questioner to think! Indeed, evidence of thought on the part of the questioner is something of a pre-requisite for getting a response. The underlying thought behind all this is that there is something of an under-current of disquiet in the statistical community about software-driven analysis, an increasingly prevalent abuse of our subject. Occasionally it comes to the surface. Crass abuses such as are encouraged by PowerPoint snake-oil and the like are obvious; but once we perceive them we can be sensitised to similar but more subtle dangers in other software. Conscious remedial effort would be a good thing, and R seems to be an excellent vehicle for it. Thanks for reading so far! Best wishes to all, Ted. E-Mail: (Ted Harding) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 06-Sep-05 Time: 14:29:26 -- XFMail -- __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting
Re: [R] The Perils of PowerPoint
Please, do not blame PowerPoint for a poorly prepared or delivered talk. Blame the person who developed the presentation and the person who delivered the talk. PowerPoint is a tool. It can use used well or it can be used poorly. If I may quote a once popular newspaper cartoon character, Pogo, We Have Met The Enemy and He Is Us. John John Sorkin M.D., Ph.D. Chief, Biostatistics and Informatics Baltimore VA Medical Center GRECC and University of Maryland School of Medicine Claude Pepper OAIC University of Maryland School of Medicine Division of Gerontology Baltimore VA Medical Center 10 North Greene Street GRECC (BT/18/GR) Baltimore, MD 21201-1524 410-605-7119 - NOTE NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mulholland, Tom [EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/06 2:26 AM For some reason (probably that our organisation has blocked the site) I could not see the original articles that prompted the post. I however immediately assumed that this was precipitated by Tufte and his comments about PowerPoint (I recall seeing a good example of PowerPoint on his site) http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/powerpoint When this first came up I recall some dispute about the comments www.sociablemedia.com/articles_dispute.htm and that John Fox did something http://ils.unc.edu/~jfox/powerpoint/introduction.html that I enjoyed reading. Other links that are lying on my computer are In defense of PowerPoint http://www.jnd.org/dn.mss/in_defense_of_powerp.html and Does PowerPoint make you stupid? at http://www.presentations.com/presentations/delivery/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000482464 Tom -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Tim Churches Sent: Saturday, 3 September 2005 10:08 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Achim Zeileis; r-help@stat.math.ethz.ch Subject: Re: [R] The Perils of PowerPoint (Ted Harding) wrote: By the way, the Washington Post/Minneapolis Star Tribune article is somewhat reminiscent of a short (15 min) broadcast on BBC Radio 4 back on October 18 2004 15:45-16:00 called Microsoft Powerpoint and the Decline of Civilisation which explores similar themes and also frequently quotes Tufte. Unfortunately it lapsed for ever from Listen Again after the statutory week, so I can't point you to a replay. (However, I have carefully preserved the cassette recording I made). Try http://sooper.org/misc/powerpoint.mp3 (copyright law notwithstanding...) Tim C __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] The Perils of PowerPoint
And thus to that 'New Age' Management Role, that of the Professional PowePoint Ranger. He (invariably he) who culls the fruits of the labours of others to present in ever more slick PowerPoint compendia, whilst never sullying their hands with 'real' work. 8¬ Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of bogdan romocea Sent: 06 September 2005 18:43 To: R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch Subject: Re: [R] The Perils of PowerPoint I don't understand why there's so much discussion on PowerPoint. IMHO, that can only obscure the real thing: - The Perils of Miscommunication - The Perils of Not Taking Responsibility (if PowerPoint is to blame for X, then who's to blame for choosing and using PowerPoint in the first place?) - The Perils of Being an Idiot - and so on. (I'm in grave danger here, and also responsible for using R.) -Original Message- From: Mulholland, Tom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 2:27 AM Cc: Achim Zeileis; r-help@stat.math.ethz.ch Subject: Re: [R] The Perils of PowerPoint For some reason (probably that our organisation has blocked the site) I could not see the original articles that prompted the post. I however immediately assumed that this was precipitated by Tufte and his comments about PowerPoint (I recall seeing a good example of PowerPoint on his site) http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/powerpoint When this first came up I recall some dispute about the comments www.sociablemedia.com/articles_dispute.htm and that John Fox did something http://ils.unc.edu/~jfox/powerpoint/introduction.html that I enjoyed reading. Other links that are lying on my computer are In defense of PowerPoint http://www.jnd.org/dn.mss/in_defense_of_powerp.html and Does PowerPoint make you stupid? at http://www.presentations.com/presentations/delivery/article_di splay.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000482464 Tom -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Tim Churches Sent: Saturday, 3 September 2005 10:08 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Achim Zeileis; r-help@stat.math.ethz.ch Subject: Re: [R] The Perils of PowerPoint (Ted Harding) wrote: By the way, the Washington Post/Minneapolis Star Tribune article is somewhat reminiscent of a short (15 min) broadcast on BBC Radio 4 back on October 18 2004 15:45-16:00 called Microsoft Powerpoint and the Decline of Civilisation which explores similar themes and also frequently quotes Tufte. Unfortunately it lapsed for ever from Listen Again after the statutory week, so I can't point you to a replay. (However, I have carefully preserved the cassette recording I made). Try http://sooper.org/misc/powerpoint.mp3 (copyright law notwithstanding...) Tim C __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] The Perils of PowerPoint
Mike Waters wrote: And thus to that 'New Age' Management Role, that of the Professional PowePoint Ranger. He (invariably he) who culls the fruits of the labours of others to present in ever more slick PowerPoint compendia, whilst never sullying their hands with 'real' work. In academia they're known as professors. Bob -- Bob O'Hara Department of Mathematics and Statistics P.O. Box 68 (Gustaf Hällströmin katu 2b) FIN-00014 University of Helsinki Finland Telephone: +358-9-191 51479 Mobile: +358 50 599 0540 Fax: +358-9-191 51400 WWW: http://www.RNI.Helsinki.FI/~boh/ Journal of Negative Results - EEB: www.jnr-eeb.org __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] The Perils of PowerPoint
I incorrectly relied upon my memory ... and that John Fox did something http://ils.unc.edu/~jfox/powerpoint/introduction.html that I enjoyed reading. The work is that of Jackson Fox Tom __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
[R] The Perils of PowerPoint
Hi all, Below is a URL for an editorial published today in our local newspaper, the Minneapolis StarTribune. It was originally published in the Washington Post a couple of days ago: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/29/AR2005082901444.html but that site requires registration. The 'Strib site seems to be open for the moment: http://www.startribune.com/stories/1519/5591930.html I thought folks might find it interesting. Best regards, Marc Schwartz __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] The Perils of PowerPoint
The R relevance here might be that all the statistics in the world wrongly applied to data will only bury its information content...R and Powerpoint (and Matlab and Perl and...) are all terrific tools for turning data into knowledge, but tools DO NOT relieve us of the necessity of thinking about and analyzing the meaning of the data with our intellect as well. It is wrong to blame ANY tool for our own shortcomings! My two cents, Rob - Original Message - From: Marc Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: R-Help r-help@stat.math.ethz.ch Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 8:18 AM Subject: [R] The Perils of PowerPoint Hi all, Below is a URL for an editorial published today in our local newspaper, the Minneapolis StarTribune. It was originally published in the Washington Post a couple of days ago: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/29/AR2005082901444.html but that site requires registration. The 'Strib site seems to be open for the moment: http://www.startribune.com/stories/1519/5591930.html I thought folks might find it interesting. Best regards, Marc Schwartz __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] The Perils of PowerPoint
-Original Message- From: ... Robert Baer Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 11:30 AM It is wrong to blame ANY tool for our own shortcomings! Surely a fortune! David L. Reiner __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] The Perils of PowerPoint
On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 12:27:45 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
-Original Message-
From: ... Robert Baer
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 11:30 AM
It is wrong to blame ANY tool for our own shortcomings!
Surely a fortune!
thx, added to the devel-version of fortunes.
But allow me one remark: Although the above is certainly true, there are
computational tools that help us better to realize or avoid our own
shortcomings whereas others will make it harder to arrive at the right
conclusions.
I agree that PowerPoint cannot be blamed for the crash of the space
shuttle, but I also see the point that the way presentations are
generated in PowerPoint (or graphics in Excel) can easily tempt people
into producing presentations/graphics that conceal what is important.
This is certainly not an excuse, but I think some criticism (even
if phrased a bit provocatively) should be allowed.
just my EUR 0.02.
Z
David L. Reiner
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Re: [R] The Perils of PowerPoint
I can't lay my hands n it at the moment - its around here somewhere,
but in Numerical Methods That Work by Forman Acton, the author
points out that the result of computation should be insight, not
numbers
ps. an excellent book if you haven't seen it.
https://enterprise.maa.org/ecomtpro/Timssnet/products/TNT_products.cfm
cheers,
Sean
On 02/09/05, Achim Zeileis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 12:27:45 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
-Original Message-
From: ... Robert Baer
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 11:30 AM
It is wrong to blame ANY tool for our own shortcomings!
Surely a fortune!
thx, added to the devel-version of fortunes.
But allow me one remark: Although the above is certainly true, there are
computational tools that help us better to realize or avoid our own
shortcomings whereas others will make it harder to arrive at the right
conclusions.
I agree that PowerPoint cannot be blamed for the crash of the space
shuttle, but I also see the point that the way presentations are
generated in PowerPoint (or graphics in Excel) can easily tempt people
into producing presentations/graphics that conceal what is important.
This is certainly not an excuse, but I think some criticism (even
if phrased a bit provocatively) should be allowed.
just my EUR 0.02.
Z
David L. Reiner
__
R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide!
http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
__
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Re: [R] The Perils of PowerPoint
On 02-Sep-05 Sean O'Riordain wrote:
I can't lay my hands n it at the moment - its around here somewhere,
but in Numerical Methods That Work by Forman Acton, the author
points out that the result of computation should be insight, not
numbers
ps. an excellent book if you haven't seen it.
https://enterprise.maa.org/ecomtpro/Timssnet/products/TNT_products.cfm
cheers,
Sean
No doubt you're correct -- but I associate it with Richard Hamming
(title page of Numerical Methods for Scientists and Engineers as
I recall -- yes, for me too it's around here somewhere -- another
really excellent book) where he words it:
The purpose of computing is insight, not numbers.
to which he adds:
The purpose of computing numbers is not yet in sight.
By the way, the Washington Post/Minneapolis Star Tribune article is
somewhat reminiscent of a short (15 min) broadcast on BBC Radio 4
back on October 18 2004 15:45-16:00 called
Microsoft Powerpoint and the Decline of Civilisation
which explores similar themes and also frequently quotes Tufte.
Unfortunately it lapsed for ever from Listen Again after the
statutory week, so I can't point you to a replay. (However, I
have carefully preserved the cassette recording I made).
We are not, of course, going Off Topic here. If, in R, you can not
indefinitely extend a tangent, then it's time to extend R.
(Oh dear, I feel a fortune coming on ... )
Best wishes to all,
Ted.
On 02/09/05, Achim Zeileis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 12:27:45 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
-Original Message-
From: ... Robert Baer
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 11:30 AM
It is wrong to blame ANY tool for our own shortcomings!
Surely a fortune!
thx, added to the devel-version of fortunes.
But allow me one remark: Although the above is certainly true, there
are
computational tools that help us better to realize or avoid our own
shortcomings whereas others will make it harder to arrive at the right
conclusions.
I agree that PowerPoint cannot be blamed for the crash of the space
shuttle, but I also see the point that the way presentations are
generated in PowerPoint (or graphics in Excel) can easily tempt people
into producing presentations/graphics that conceal what is important.
This is certainly not an excuse, but I think some criticism (even
if phrased a bit provocatively) should be allowed.
just my EUR 0.02.
Z
David L. Reiner
__
R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide!
http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
__
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__
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E-Mail: (Ted Harding) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861
Date: 03-Sep-05 Time: 01:00:24
-- XFMail --
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Re: [R] The Perils of PowerPoint
LOL Ted! That's a great quote for fortune()! On Sat, 2005-09-03 at 01:06 +0100, Ted Harding wrote: On 02-Sep-05 Sean O'Riordain wrote: I can't lay my hands n it at the moment - its around here somewhere, but in Numerical Methods That Work by Forman Acton, the author points out that the result of computation should be insight, not numbers ps. an excellent book if you haven't seen it. https://enterprise.maa.org/ecomtpro/Timssnet/products/TNT_products.cfm cheers, Sean No doubt you're correct -- but I associate it with Richard Hamming (title page of Numerical Methods for Scientists and Engineers as I recall -- yes, for me too it's around here somewhere -- another really excellent book) where he words it: The purpose of computing is insight, not numbers. to which he adds: The purpose of computing numbers is not yet in sight. By the way, the Washington Post/Minneapolis Star Tribune article is somewhat reminiscent of a short (15 min) broadcast on BBC Radio 4 back on October 18 2004 15:45-16:00 called Microsoft Powerpoint and the Decline of Civilisation which explores similar themes and also frequently quotes Tufte. Unfortunately it lapsed for ever from Listen Again after the statutory week, so I can't point you to a replay. (However, I have carefully preserved the cassette recording I made). We are not, of course, going Off Topic here. If, in R, you can not indefinitely extend a tangent, then it's time to extend R. (Oh dear, I feel a fortune coming on ... ) Best wishes to all, Ted. On 02/09/05, Achim Zeileis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 12:27:45 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: ... Robert Baer Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 11:30 AM It is wrong to blame ANY tool for our own shortcomings! Surely a fortune! thx, added to the devel-version of fortunes. But allow me one remark: Although the above is certainly true, there are computational tools that help us better to realize or avoid our own shortcomings whereas others will make it harder to arrive at the right conclusions. I agree that PowerPoint cannot be blamed for the crash of the space shuttle, but I also see the point that the way presentations are generated in PowerPoint (or graphics in Excel) can easily tempt people into producing presentations/graphics that conceal what is important. This is certainly not an excuse, but I think some criticism (even if phrased a bit provocatively) should be allowed. just my EUR 0.02. Z David L. Reiner __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html E-Mail: (Ted Harding) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 03-Sep-05 Time: 01:00:24 -- XFMail -- __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
Re: [R] The Perils of PowerPoint
(Ted Harding) wrote: By the way, the Washington Post/Minneapolis Star Tribune article is somewhat reminiscent of a short (15 min) broadcast on BBC Radio 4 back on October 18 2004 15:45-16:00 called Microsoft Powerpoint and the Decline of Civilisation which explores similar themes and also frequently quotes Tufte. Unfortunately it lapsed for ever from Listen Again after the statutory week, so I can't point you to a replay. (However, I have carefully preserved the cassette recording I made). Try http://sooper.org/misc/powerpoint.mp3 (copyright law notwithstanding...) Tim C __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
