Re: [RDA-L] RDA CIP
On Saturday, April 13, 2013 9:50 PM, Jacqueline Byrd wrote: So, would we just ignore CIP information that would normally go in a transcription field? It's not unusual for me to find an edition and/or series statement only in the CIP. Is it best not to record information for these fields if it appears only in the CIP data, or should it be bracketed with maybe a note identifying the source? Yes, if information is only in the CIP block and not anywhere else in the book/resource, it would be ignored/treated as skeptical information not necessarily pertaining to the resource being described. If the publisher wanted the edition statement or series statement to appear on the book, they should have included it somewhere on their portion of the resource, rather than telling the CIP block creator (LC or other provider of cataloging-in-publication data blocks) that it would appear on the resource and then not mentioning it anywhere else on the resource. As for bracketing and making a note, it seems like that would be appropriate for edition and series statements where you have evidence that such statements are valid for the resource being described. For example, if subsequent volumes of a series mention your volume, but yours doesn't list a series statement, then adding a bracketed 490 or 500 might be helpful to justify an 8xx. On the other hand, if all books in the series (thinking of some children's series) mention Other books in this series followed by a list of titles, but none of them have a valid series statement outside of the CIP block, then I'd say there isn't a legitimate series, so none should be recorded/bracketed-in. I hope this helps, Bryan Baldus Senior Cataloger Quality Books Inc. The Best of America's Independent Presses 1-800-323-4241x402 bryan.bal...@quality-books.com
Re: [RDA-L] RDA CIP
So, would we just ignore CIP information that would normally go in a
transcription field?
In most cases, the CIP information is in the LC or LAC record which
was upgraded from a CIP one. We would not remove nor bracket that
information; it is in the item.
Of course one must be aware of earlier CIP printed in a later edition,
and of changes which might have happened during the publishing
process. Title page information would supersede older CIP
information, although the CIP information might also be included,
e.g., a changed title in 246; the item might have been listed as a
forthcoming book with the earlier title.
While 588 is usually used for sources outside the item, it could be
used to note CIP derived data. Better CIP data than [ not
identified], which would not be true if in the CIP.
Let's be pragmatic in supplying all available ISBD information.
Perhaps a publisher might feel it is not necessary to include
information twice, particularly the LCCN and ISBN.
__ __ J. McRee (Mac) Elrod (m...@slc.bc.ca)
{__ | / Special Libraries Cataloguing HTTP://www.slc.bc.ca/
___} |__ \__
It's not unusual for me to find an edition and/or series statement
only in the CIP. Is it best not to record information for these
fields if it appears only in the CIP data, or should it be bracketed
with maybe a note identifying the source?
[RDA-L] RDA CIP
RDA-L readers, Sometimes CIP for a previous edition is printed. In such cases you can take pertinent data, such as the LCCN (which is invalid, and should be coded so using subfield z, but is nevertheless usable as a search key) and include it in the record for the book in hand. Once I had a Spanish translation of an English-language book for which the Library of Congress had prepared CIP. The translator translated the entire book - CIP and all! For a while I wondered if LC had done it. - Ian Ian Fairclough - George Mason University - ifairclough43...@yahoo.com
Re: [RDA-L] RDA CIP
Honestly, I never have thought about that CIP is a reliable source. But maybe I am wrong. Since Ian mentioned translation, I have a Chinese translation joke. I have done several Chinese books for the Lincoln Presidential Library. These books all are thread-bound. One of matched OCLC records showed that the translator's death was earlier than the author's birth year. Apparently it it not possible for a translator to translate a book that has not been written. Eventually I found out the right author by searching the Internet. This is actually a big lesson for me. Since then I reject to do stuff that I am not comfortable with :) Have fun :) Joan Wang Illinois Heartland Library System On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Ian Fairclough ifairclough43...@yahoo.comwrote: RDA-L readers, Sometimes CIP for a previous edition is printed. In such cases you can take pertinent data, such as the LCCN (which is invalid, and should be coded so using subfield z, but is nevertheless usable as a search key) and include it in the record for the book in hand. Once I had a Spanish translation of an English-language book for which the Library of Congress had prepared CIP. The translator translated the entire book - CIP and all! For a while I wondered if LC had done it. - Ian Ian Fairclough - George Mason University - ifairclough43...@yahoo.com -- Zhonghong (Joan) Wang, Ph.D. Cataloger -- CMC Illinois Heartland Library System (Edwardsville Office) 6725 Goshen Road Edwardsville, IL 62025 618.656.3216x409 618.656.9401Fax
Re: [RDA-L] RDA CIP
Isn't CIP data transfer supposed to be part of the automation in this process, especially from a bibframe perspective? Cindy Wolff Honestly, I never have thought about that CIP is a reliable source. But maybe I am wrong. Since Ian mentioned translation, I have a Chinese translation joke. I have done several Chinese books for the Lincoln Presidential Library. These books all are thread-bound. One of matched OCLC records showed that the translator's death was earlier than the author's birth year. Apparently it it not possible for a translator to translate a book that has not been written. Eventually I found out the right author by searching the Internet. This is actually a big lesson for me. Since then I reject to do stuff that I am not comfortable with :) Have fun :) Joan Wang Illinois Heartland Library System On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Ian Fairclough ifairclough43...@yahoo.comwrote: RDA-L readers, Sometimes CIP for a previous edition is printed. In such cases you can take pertinent data, such as the LCCN (which is invalid, and should be coded so using subfield z, but is nevertheless usable as a search key) and include it in the record for the book in hand. Once I had a Spanish translation of an English-language book for which the Library of Congress had prepared CIP. The translator translated the entire book - CIP and all! For a while I wondered if LC had done it. - Ian Ian Fairclough - George Mason University - ifairclough43...@yahoo.com -- Zhonghong (Joan) Wang, Ph.D. Cataloger -- CMC Illinois Heartland Library System (Edwardsville Office) 6725 Goshen Road Edwardsville, IL 62025 618.656.3216x409 618.656.9401Fax
Re: [RDA-L] RDA CIP
Dear Michael, I believe this is the LC-PCC PS you are looking for (2.2.2.1): LC practice/PCC practice: Do not consider pre-publication cataloging data (foreign or domestic) appearing in the item as a source of information for transcribed elements. (note the emphasis on *transcribed* elements, others would be ok) Hope this helps, Dave Reser LC Policy Standards Division -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Michael Cohen Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 6:11 PM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] RDA CIP You consider it so, and others consider it not so. But my question is really what does RDA say about it, and if it is silent then do we need an LC-PCC PS to address this question.
[RDA-L] RDA CIP
Our previous local practice was to never consider CIP data printed in the book as part of the other preliminaries that were valid as a prescribed source of information under AACR2 2.0B2. RDA 2.2.2.1 says Use as the preferred source of information a source forming part of the resource itself... Is CIP data printed in the book part of the resource? Specifically, if the CIP includes an edition statement that does not appear anywhere else in the volume, should it be included in the bibliographic record? -- Michael L. Cohen Interim Head, Cataloging Department General Library System University of Wisconsin-Madison 324C Memorial Library 728 State Street Madison, WI 53706-1494 Phone: (608) 262-3246Fax: (608) 262-4861 Email: mco...@library.wisc.edu
Re: [RDA-L] RDA CIP
Haha. My librarian nearly had a fit when she discovered that I, as a new cataloguing technician, was deriving edition statements from CIP info. From this you can see that she agrees with your local practice, and we continue to work on that basis. -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Michael Cohen Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 12:41 PM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: [RDA-L] RDA CIP Our previous local practice was to never consider CIP data printed in the book as part of the other preliminaries that were valid as a prescribed source of information under AACR2 2.0B2. RDA 2.2.2.1 says Use as the preferred source of information a source forming part of the resource itself... Is CIP data printed in the book part of the resource? Specifically, if the CIP includes an edition statement that does not appear anywhere else in the volume, should it be included in the bibliographic record? -- Michael L. Cohen Interim Head, Cataloging Department General Library System University of Wisconsin-Madison 324C Memorial Library 728 State Street Madison, WI 53706-1494 Phone: (608) 262-3246Fax: (608) 262-4861 Email: mco...@library.wisc.edu
Re: [RDA-L] RDA CIP
I agree that CIP shouldn't be considered a source of information. (Though I imagine all of us have, in a pinch, grabbed the ISBN from CIP at one time or another.) Benjamin Abrahamse Cataloging Coordinator Acquisitions, Metadata and Enterprise Systems MIT Libraries 617-253-7137 -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] On Behalf Of Karen Nelson Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 4:33 PM To: RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca Subject: Re: [RDA-L] RDA CIP Haha. My librarian nearly had a fit when she discovered that I, as a new cataloguing technician, was deriving edition statements from CIP info. From this you can see that she agrees with your local practice, and we continue to work on that basis. -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Michael Cohen Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 12:41 PM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: [RDA-L] RDA CIP Our previous local practice was to never consider CIP data printed in the book as part of the other preliminaries that were valid as a prescribed source of information under AACR2 2.0B2. RDA 2.2.2.1 says Use as the preferred source of information a source forming part of the resource itself... Is CIP data printed in the book part of the resource? Specifically, if the CIP includes an edition statement that does not appear anywhere else in the volume, should it be included in the bibliographic record? -- Michael L. Cohen Interim Head, Cataloging Department General Library System University of Wisconsin-Madison 324C Memorial Library 728 State Street Madison, WI 53706-1494 Phone: (608) 262-3246Fax: (608) 262-4861 Email: mco...@library.wisc.edu
Re: [RDA-L] RDA CIP
Subject: [RDA-L] RDA CIP
Is CIP data printed in the book part of the resource?
We consider it so.
Specifically, if the CIP includes an edition statement that does not
appear anywhere else in the volume, should it be included in the
bibliographic record?
Yes, although the ISBN is the most frequest information we take from
print CIP. Since the information is in the resource, we would not
bracket an edition statement taken from CIP.
The CIP was created from information supplied by the publisher, so we
see no reason to exclude it as a source.
A CIP title which differs from that on the title page (the title having
changed during publication) would get a 246 1 $iAnnounced as:$aCIP title.
__ __ J. McRee (Mac) Elrod (m...@slc.bc.ca)
{__ | / Special Libraries Cataloguing HTTP://www.slc.bc.ca/
___} |__ \__
Re: [RDA-L] RDA CIP
You consider it so, and others consider it not so. But my question is
really what does RDA say about it, and if it is silent then do we need
an LC-PCC PS to address this question.
On 4/11/2013 3:53 PM, J. McRee Elrod wrote:
Subject: [RDA-L] RDA CIP
Is CIP data printed in the book part of the resource?
We consider it so.
Specifically, if the CIP includes an edition statement that does not
appear anywhere else in the volume, should it be included in the
bibliographic record?
Yes, although the ISBN is the most frequest information we take from
print CIP. Since the information is in the resource, we would not
bracket an edition statement taken from CIP.
The CIP was created from information supplied by the publisher, so we
see no reason to exclude it as a source.
A CIP title which differs from that on the title page (the title having
changed during publication) would get a 246 1 $iAnnounced as:$aCIP title.
__ __ J. McRee (Mac) Elrod (m...@slc.bc.ca)
{__ | / Special Libraries Cataloguing HTTP://www.slc.bc.ca/
___} |__ \__
--
Michael L. Cohen
Interim Head, Cataloging Department
General Library System
University of Wisconsin-Madison
324C Memorial Library
728 State Street
Madison, WI 53706-1494
Phone: (608) 262-3246Fax: (608) 262-4861
Email: mco...@library.wisc.edu
Re: [RDA-L] RDA CIP
Yes, I too was taught (during my first every job as a cataloguer) to never consider the CIP a source of information, and told to basically ignore it. Having said that, though, this week I did take a LOC classification number/sequence off one, because I wasn't taught it, so had no idea how to assign one! If there was an edition statement that was not in the rest of the volume, I wouldn't include it...but that's because I was taught not to! You've all made me very curious now, and I think I'll look into it, even just for my own benefit (or I'll never stop wondering!). On 12/04/2013, at 4:39 AM, Benjamin A Abrahamse babra...@mit.edu wrote: I agree that CIP shouldn't be considered a source of information. (Though I imagine all of us have, in a pinch, grabbed the ISBN from CIP at one time or another.) Benjamin Abrahamse Cataloging Coordinator Acquisitions, Metadata and Enterprise Systems MIT Libraries 617-253-7137 -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] On Behalf Of Karen Nelson Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 4:33 PM To: RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca Subject: Re: [RDA-L] RDA CIP Haha. My librarian nearly had a fit when she discovered that I, as a new cataloguing technician, was deriving edition statements from CIP info. From this you can see that she agrees with your local practice, and we continue to work on that basis. -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Michael Cohen Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 12:41 PM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: [RDA-L] RDA CIP Our previous local practice was to never consider CIP data printed in the book as part of the other preliminaries that were valid as a prescribed source of information under AACR2 2.0B2. RDA 2.2.2.1 says Use as the preferred source of information a source forming part of the resource itself... Is CIP data printed in the book part of the resource? Specifically, if the CIP includes an edition statement that does not appear anywhere else in the volume, should it be included in the bibliographic record? -- Michael L. Cohen Interim Head, Cataloging Department General Library System University of Wisconsin-Madison 324C Memorial Library 728 State Street Madison, WI 53706-1494 Phone: (608) 262-3246Fax: (608) 262-4861 Email: mco...@library.wisc.edu
