The End of NY's Kosher Inspectors
According to the story below, NY has decided to nix its Kosher inspectors as a way of spending money. Does anyone know the details (and citation) for the 2004 case mentioned in the article? Also, I am wondering what precisely the inspectors after the decision. Finally, does anyone know why the inspectors were set up in the first place? Why wasn't the issue simply solved by having private kosher audits by reputable bodies? The idea of a state Kosher inspector just seems perverse and unnecessary to me. What am I missing? http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704735304576058100916662270.html?mod=WSJ_hps_sections_newyork Nathan B. Oman Associate Professor William Mary Law School P.O. Box 8795 Williamsburg, VA 23187 (757) 221-3919 I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be mistaken. -Oliver Cromwell ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
Re: The End of NY's Kosher Inspectors
Perhaps it was a Consumer fraud issue? to assure that the consumers were really getting Kosher food when it was so advertised? Lisa On 1/5/2011 1:00 PM, Nathan Oman wrote: According to the story below, NY has decided to nix its Kosher inspectors as a way of spending money. Does anyone know the details (and citation) for the 2004 case mentioned in the article? Also, I am wondering what precisely the inspectors after the decision. Finally, does anyone know why the inspectors were set up in the first place? Why wasn't the issue simply solved by having private kosher audits by reputable bodies? The idea of a state Kosher inspector just seems perverse and unnecessary to me. What am I missing? http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704735304576058100916662270.html?mod=WSJ_hps_sections_newyork N -- Lisa A. Runquist Runquist Associates Attorneys at Law 17554 Community Street Northridge, CA 91325 (818)609-7761 (818)609-7794 (fax) l...@runquist.com http://www.runquist.com IRS Circular 230 Notice To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used by any taxpayer, for the purpose of avoiding U.S. tax penalties. This message and any attachments may be protected by the attorney/client privilege. If you believe that it has been sent to you in error, do not read, copy or distribute it. Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error and then delete it. Thank you. NOTE: Emails are not a secure method of communication. If you do not wish to obtain future communications from me via email, please advise me immediately. ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
RE: The End of NY's Kosher Inspectors
I once knew a lot about this; but that was years ago; I am at the AALS meeting now and can't access information. There is an essay on Kosher inspection laws in Religion and American Law: An Encyclopedia (Routledge [formerly Garland] 1999), which I edited. The laws date from the early 19th century, I believe -- Paul Finkelman President William McKinley Distinguished Professor of Law and Public Policy Albany Law School 80 New Scotland Avenue Albany, NY 12208-3494 518-445-3386 (o) 518-445-3363 (f) www.paulfinkelman.com From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Nathan Oman Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 4:00 PM To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: The End of NY's Kosher Inspectors According to the story below, NY has decided to nix its Kosher inspectors as a way of spending money. Does anyone know the details (and citation) for the 2004 case mentioned in the article? Also, I am wondering what precisely the inspectors after the decision. Finally, does anyone know why the inspectors were set up in the first place? Why wasn't the issue simply solved by having private kosher audits by reputable bodies? The idea of a state Kosher inspector just seems perverse and unnecessary to me. What am I missing? http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704735304576058100916662270.html?mod=WSJ_hps_sections_newyork Nathan B. Oman Associate Professor William Mary Law School P.O. Box 8795 Williamsburg, VA 23187 (757) 221-3919 I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be mistaken. -Oliver Cromwell ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
RE: The End of NY's Kosher Inspectors
The first permanent Kosher law was enacted in NY in 1917 to combat what was then rampant an open fraud in the sale of kosher meat( Its constitutionality against a due process vagueness challenge was upheld by the US Supreme Court.). I summarized this history in an article I wrote in the journal Judaism about 15 years ago ,but it is not available on line.(Kent Greenawalt wrote something subsequently.) There is also a good but hard to get book on the subject whose name I would have to dig out. More recently, the New York, New Jersey, Maryland (Baltimore) and Georgia laws were invalidated because they allowed the state to decide a religious question-was the food kosher. Now all states work on the basis of mandatory disclosure statements and the inspectors simply police the presence and accuracy of those statements. Marc D. Stern Associate General Counsel for Legal Advocacy ste...@ajc.org 212.891.1480 646.287.2606 (cell) http://www.ajc.org/ NOTICE This email may contain confidential and/or privileged material and is intended for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, disclosure, copying, distribution or other transmission is prohibited, improper and may be unlawful. If you have received this email in error, you must destroy this email and kindly notify the sender by reply email. If this email contains the word CONFIDENTIAL in its Subject line, then even a valid recipient must hold it in confidence and not distribute or disclose it. In such case ONLY the author of the email has permission to forward or otherwise distribute it or disclose its contents to others. _ From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Finkelman, Paul paul.finkel...@albanylaw.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 05:21 To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: RE: The End of NY's Kosher Inspectors I once knew a lot about this; but that was years ago; I am at the AALS meeting now and can't access information. There is an essay on Kosher inspection laws in Religion and American Law: An Encyclopedia (Routledge [formerly Garland] 1999), which I edited. The laws date from the early 19th century, I believe -- Paul Finkelman President William McKinley Distinguished Professor of Law and Public Policy Albany Law School 80 New Scotland Avenue Albany, NY 12208-3494 518-445-3386 (o) 518-445-3363 (f) www.paulfinkelman.com From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Nathan Oman Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 4:00 PM To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: The End of NY's Kosher Inspectors According to the story below, NY has decided to nix its Kosher inspectors as a way of spending money. Does anyone know the details (and citation) for the 2004 case mentioned in the article? Also, I am wondering what precisely the inspectors after the decision. Finally, does anyone know why the inspectors were set up in the first place? Why wasn't the issue simply solved by having private kosher audits by reputable bodies? The idea of a state Kosher inspector just seems perverse and unnecessary to me. What am I missing? http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704735304576058100916662270.ht ml?mod=WSJ_hps_sections_newyork Nathan B. Oman Associate Professor William Mary Law School P.O. Box 8795 Williamsburg, VA 23187 (757) 221-3919 I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be mistaken. -Oliver Cromwell image001.jpg___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
RE: The End of NY's Kosher Inspectors
Didn't New York City have them in the early 19th century? -- Paul Finkelman President William McKinley Distinguished Professor of Law and Public Policy Albany Law School 80 New Scotland Avenue Albany, NY 12208-3494 518-445-3386 (o) 518-445-3363 (f) www.paulfinkelman.com From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Marc Stern Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 5:28 PM To: 'Law Religion issues for Law Academics' Subject: RE: The End of NY's Kosher Inspectors The first permanent Kosher law was enacted in NY in 1917 to combat what was then rampant an open fraud in the sale of kosher meat( Its constitutionality against a due process vagueness challenge was upheld by the US Supreme Court.). I summarized this history in an article I wrote in the journal Judaism about 15 years ago ,but it is not available on line.(Kent Greenawalt wrote something subsequently.) There is also a good but hard to get book on the subject whose name I would have to dig out. More recently, the New York, New Jersey, Maryland (Baltimore) and Georgia laws were invalidated because they allowed the state to decide a religious question-was the food kosher. Now all states work on the basis of mandatory disclosure statements and the inspectors simply police the presence and accuracy of those statements. Marc D. Stern Associate General Counsel for Legal Advocacy ste...@ajc.org 212.891.1480 646.287.2606 (cell) [cid:image001.jpg@01CBAD00.B7E2CB10]http://www.ajc.org/ NOTICE This email may contain confidential and/or privileged material and is intended for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, disclosure, copying, distribution or other transmission is prohibited, improper and may be unlawful. If you have received this email in error, you must destroy this email and kindly notify the sender by reply email. If this email contains the word CONFIDENTIAL in its Subject line, then even a valid recipient must hold it in confidence and not distribute or disclose it. In such case ONLY the author of the email has permission to forward or otherwise distribute it or disclose its contents to others. From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Finkelman, Paul paul.finkel...@albanylaw.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 05:21 To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: RE: The End of NY's Kosher Inspectors I once knew a lot about this; but that was years ago; I am at the AALS meeting now and can't access information. There is an essay on Kosher inspection laws in Religion and American Law: An Encyclopedia (Routledge [formerly Garland] 1999), which I edited. The laws date from the early 19th century, I believe -- Paul Finkelman President William McKinley Distinguished Professor of Law and Public Policy Albany Law School 80 New Scotland Avenue Albany, NY 12208-3494 518-445-3386 (o) 518-445-3363 (f) www.paulfinkelman.com From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Nathan Oman Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 4:00 PM To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: The End of NY's Kosher Inspectors According to the story below, NY has decided to nix its Kosher inspectors as a way of spending money. Does anyone know the details (and citation) for the 2004 case mentioned in the article? Also, I am wondering what precisely the inspectors after the decision. Finally, does anyone know why the inspectors were set up in the first place? Why wasn't the issue simply solved by having private kosher audits by reputable bodies? The idea of a state Kosher inspector just seems perverse and unnecessary to me. What am I missing? http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704735304576058100916662270.html?mod=WSJ_hps_sections_newyork Nathan B. Oman Associate Professor William Mary Law School P.O. Box 8795 Williamsburg, VA 23187 (757) 221-3919 I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be mistaken. -Oliver Cromwell inline: image001.jpg___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
Re: The End of NY's Kosher Inspectors
I believe the NY case wasCommack Self-Serv. Kosher Meats, Inc. v. Weiss, 294 F.3d 415, 418 (2d Cir. 2002) Last August Professor Friedman posted a story on a lawsuit filed by a Conservative rabbi challenging the constitutionality of Georgia's Kosher Food Labeling Act on the grounds that the law provides that food can only bear a kosher label if it meets "Orthodox Hebrew religious rules and requirements." In other words the State of Georgia has chosen to use an "Orthodox" definition of kashrut. This poses a significant Establishment Clause problem. Why is the State taking a particular religious definition of kashrut? Forget Orthodox vis a vis Conservative for a minute. What about various strains of Orthodoxy? Is Hebrew National not kosher because it has a Triangle K and not an OU? While the idea of the government protecting the kosher consumer from fraud is commendable, over the years a number of similar laws in New York, Maryland and New Jersey have been struck down by the courts for this very reason. As the New Jersey Supreme Court said, requiring businesses to comply with a particular Jewish religious standard "inextricably" entangled Jewish law with secular law. When challenged, the state has no choice but to determine what the true definition of kashrut is. It must choose between Rabbi A's definition and Rabbi B's definition. And that is something the state should never be put in a position of doing. Kosher food laws should not be based on any one particular religious standard to determine whether it's kosher or not, especially because there is no standard universally agreed upon within the Jewish community. Instead, kosher fraud laws should rely on full disclosure made by the seller. A kosher fraud law should state that anyone selling kosher food is required to disclose the basis upon which that claim is made. In other words, if Butcher Z says I am selling kosher meat then he must produce some documentation from Rabbi A attesting to its kashrut. If a consumer trusts Rabbi A then he will buy from Butcher Z. If not, armed with all the facts and with full disclosure, he can go across the street to Butcher X who discloses that his products are under the supervision of Rabbi B. The state's only involvement in enforcing these laws would be to see if the food sold is in compliance with that disclosure statement, not whether it is in compliance with "Orthodox Hebrew law." This solution still allows the state to fulfill its goal of protecting consumers from fraud while not entangling it in religious doctrine and violating the Establishment Clause in the process. Rabbi Michael Simon Temple Beth Kodesh Boynton Beach, Fl (954) 257-6159 www.TempleBethKodesh.org http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/group.php?gid=72595149028 -Original Message- From: Marc Stern ste...@ajc.org To: 'Law Religion issues for Law Academics' religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu Sent: Wed, Jan 5, 2011 5:27 pm Subject: RE: The End of NY's Kosher Inspectors The first permanent Kosher law was enacted in NY in 1917 to combat what was then rampant an open fraud in the sale of kosher meat( Its constitutionality against a due process vagueness challenge was upheld by the US Supreme Court.). I summarized this history in an article I wrote in the journal Judaism about 15 years ago ,but it is not available on line.(Kent Greenawalt wrote something subsequently.) There is also a good but hard to get book on the subject whose name I would have to dig out. More recently, the New York, New Jersey, Maryland (Baltimore) and Georgia laws were invalidated because they allowed the state to decide a religious question-was the food kosher. Now all states work on the basis of mandatory disclosure statements and the inspectors simply police the presence and accuracy of those statements. Marc D. Stern Associate General Counsel for Legal Advocacy ste...@ajc.org 212.891.1480 646.287.2606 (cell) NOTICE This email may contain confidential and/or privileged material and is intended for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, disclosure, copying, distribution or other transmission is prohibited, improper and may be unlawful. If you have received this email in error, you must destroy this email and kindly notify the sender by reply email. If this email contains the word CONFIDENTIAL in its Subject line, then even a valid recipient must hold it in confidence and not distribute or disclose it. In such case ONLY the author of the email has permission to forward or otherwise distribute it or disclose its contents to others. From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Finkelman, Paul paul.finkel...@albanylaw.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 05:21 To: Law
Re: The End of NY's Kosher Inspectors
Not so far as I know but there was a short lived law at the end of the 19th century. Marc Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Finkelman, Paul paul.finkel...@albanylaw.edu paul.finkel...@albanylaw.edu Sender: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 17:48:10 To: Law Religion issues for Law Academicsreligionlaw@lists.ucla.edu Reply-To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu Subject: RE: The End of NY's Kosher Inspectors ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others. ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
