Go to Church or Go to Jail?
That's what it appears to be (sorry for cross-posting but this should be useful to subscribers on both lists looking for an exam question, to say nothing of the expected discussion). http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/26/jesus-or-jail-alabama-town-offers-options-for-serving-time/?hpt=hp_t2 Headline and first paragraph: Jesus or jail? Alabama town offers options for serving timehttp://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/26/jesus-or-jail-alabama-town-offers-options-for-serving-time/ If you're charged with a nonviolent crime in one Alabama town, you might just have the chance to pray it all away. Starting this week, under a new program called Operation ROC (Restore Our Community), local judges in Bay Minette, Alabama, will give those found guilty of misdemeanors the choice of serving out their time in jail, paying a fine or attending church each Sunday for a year. James Edward Maule Professor of Law Villanova University School of Law ma...@law.villanova.edu http://vls.law.villanova.edu/prof/maule ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
Re: Go to Church or Go to Jail?
Much milder versions of this, such as go to jail or go to AA, have been litigated and held unconstitutional. This plan will have a short life. On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 17:37:51 -0400 James Edward Maule ma...@law.villanova.edu wrote: That's what it appears to be (sorry for cross-posting but this should be useful to subscribers on both lists looking for an exam question, to say nothing of the expected discussion). http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/26/jesus-or-jail-alabama-town-offers-options-for-serving-time/?hpt=hp_t2 Headline and first paragraph: Jesus or jail? Alabama town offers options for serving timehttp://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/26/jesus-or-jail-alabama-town-offers-options-for-serving-time/ If you're charged with a nonviolent crime in one Alabama town, you might just have the chance to pray it all away. Starting this week, under a new program called Operation ROC (Restore Our Community), local judges in Bay Minette, Alabama, will give those found guilty of misdemeanors the choice of serving out their time in jail, paying a fine or attending church each Sunday for a year. James Edward Maule Professor of Law Villanova University School of Law ma...@law.villanova.edu http://vls.law.villanova.edu/prof/maule Douglas Laycock Robert E. Scott Distinguished Professor of Law University of Virginia Law School 580 Massie Road Charlottesville, VA 22903 434-243-8546 ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
Re: Go to Church or Go to Jail?
I wonder what happens if a Jew, a Moslem, or a Seventh Day Adventist gets arrested. Not to mention a Hindu, Buddhist, or another other follower of a non-western faith. Paul Finkelman President William McKinley Distinguished Professor of Law Albany Law School 80 New Scotland Avenue Albany, NY 12208 518-445-3386 (p) 518-445-3363 (f) paul.finkel...@albanylaw.edu www.paulfinkelman.com From: James Edward Maule ma...@law.villanova.edu To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu; conlawp...@lists.ucla.edu conlawp...@lists.ucla.edu Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 5:37 PM Subject: Go to Church or Go to Jail? That’s what it appears to be (sorry for cross-posting but this should be useful to subscribers on both lists looking for an exam question, to say nothing of the expected discussion). http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/26/jesus-or-jail-alabama-town-offers-options-for-serving-time/?hpt=hp_t2 Headline and first paragraph: Jesus or jail? Alabama town offers options for serving time If you're charged with a nonviolent crime in one Alabama town, you might just have the chance to pray it all away. Starting this week, under a new program called Operation ROC (Restore Our Community), local judges in Bay Minette, Alabama, will give those found guilty of misdemeanors the choice of serving out their time in jail, paying a fine or attending church each Sunday for a year. James Edward Maule Professor of Law Villanova University School of Law ma...@law.villanova.edu http://vls.law.villanova.edu/prof/maule ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
RE: Go to Church or Go to Jail?
If the preaching is particularly bad, they might also have an Eighth Amendment claim. From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Douglas Laycock [dlayc...@virginia.edu] Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 6:06 PM To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics; James Edward Maule; conlawp...@lists.ucla.edu Subject: Re: Go to Church or Go to Jail? Much milder versions of this, such as go to jail or go to AA, have been litigated and held unconstitutional. This plan will have a short life. On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 17:37:51 -0400 James Edward Maule ma...@law.villanova.edu wrote: That's what it appears to be (sorry for cross-posting but this should be useful to subscribers on both lists looking for an exam question, to say nothing of the expected discussion). http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/26/jesus-or-jail-alabama-town-offers-options-for-serving-time/?hpt=hp_t2 Headline and first paragraph: Jesus or jail? Alabama town offers options for serving timehttp://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/26/jesus-or-jail-alabama-town-offers-options-for-serving-time/ If you're charged with a nonviolent crime in one Alabama town, you might just have the chance to pray it all away. Starting this week, under a new program called Operation ROC (Restore Our Community), local judges in Bay Minette, Alabama, will give those found guilty of misdemeanors the choice of serving out their time in jail, paying a fine or attending church each Sunday for a year. James Edward Maule Professor of Law Villanova University School of Law ma...@law.villanova.edu http://vls.law.villanova.edu/prof/maule Douglas Laycock Robert E. Scott Distinguished Professor of Law University of Virginia Law School 580 Massie Road Charlottesville, VA 22903 434-243-8546 ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others. ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
RE: Go to Church or Go to Jail?
Oh, I just remembered. When I was the main expert in the Ten Commandments monument case in Alabama (Glassroth v. Moore), Chief Justice Roy Moore said that the Ten Commandments monument could not offend any religion because all religions believe in the Ten Commandments. When asked about Hindus or Buddhists he said they are not real religions so they are not protected by the First Amendment. I had forgotten about that! I guess that answer part of my question, although not for Jews or 7th Day Adventists. * Paul Finkelman, Ph.D. President William McKinley Distinguished Professor of Law Albany Law School 80 New Scotland Avenue Albany, NY 12208 518-445-3386 (p) 518-445-3363 (f) paul.finkel...@albanylaw.edumailto:paul.finkel...@albanylaw.edu www.paulfinkelman.comhttp://www.paulfinkelman.com * From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] on behalf of James Edward Maule [ma...@law.villanova.edu] Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 5:37 PM To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics; conlawp...@lists.ucla.edu Subject: Go to Church or Go to Jail? That’s what it appears to be (sorry for cross-posting but this should be useful to subscribers on both lists looking for an exam question, to say nothing of the expected discussion). http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/26/jesus-or-jail-alabama-town-offers-options-for-serving-time/?hpt=hp_t2 Headline and first paragraph: Jesus or jail? Alabama town offers options for serving timehttp://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/26/jesus-or-jail-alabama-town-offers-options-for-serving-time/ If you're charged with a nonviolent crime in one Alabama town, you might just have the chance to pray it all away. Starting this week, under a new program called Operation ROC (Restore Our Community), local judges in Bay Minette, Alabama, will give those found guilty of misdemeanors the choice of serving out their time in jail, paying a fine or attending church each Sunday for a year. James Edward Maule Professor of Law Villanova University School of Law ma...@law.villanova.edu http://vls.law.villanova.edu/prof/maule ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
RE: Go to Church or Go to Jail?
I suspect the response from the Alabama legislators would actually be more truculent! _ From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of hamilto...@aol.com Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 3:58 PM To: religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu; conlawp...@lists.ucla.edu Subject: Re: Go to Church or Go to Jail? First, this is hilarious. Second, it reminds me of my cousin, who is a principal at a public high school in Kentucky. When we were visiting several years ago, he left dinner early to draft the school prayer to be read over the PA for the next day. When I joked that that might be a problem for the Supreme Court, he just smiled. I would imagine that would be the response from the Alabama lawmakers on this issue. Marci A. Hamilton Paul R. Verkuil Chair in Public Law Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law Yeshiva University 55 Fifth Avenue New York, NY 10003 215-353-8984 In a message dated 9/26/2011 5:41:16 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ma...@law.villanova.edu writes: That's what it appears to be (sorry for cross-posting but this should be useful to subscribers on both lists looking for an exam question, to say nothing of the expected discussion). http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/26/jesus-or-jail-alabama-town-offers-optio ns-for-serving-time/?hpt=hp_t2 Headline and first paragraph: Jesus http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/26/jesus-or-jail-alabama-town-offers-opti ons-for-serving-time/ or jail? Alabama town offers options for serving time If you're charged with a nonviolent crime in one Alabama town, you might just have the chance to pray it all away. Starting this week, under a new program called Operation ROC (Restore Our Community), local judges in Bay Minette, Alabama, will give those found guilty of misdemeanors the choice of serving out their time in jail, paying a fine or attending church each Sunday for a year. James Edward Maule Professor of Law Villanova University School of Law ma...@law.villanova.edu http://vls.law.villanova.edu/prof/maule = ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others. marci%20hamilton%20signature%20cropped.jpg___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
Re: Go to Church or Go to Jail?
Sixty five years ago, the Virginia Supreme Court threw out a juvenile sentence of this type. One can only wonder why this prosecutor and judge can't see what was long ago obvious. Marc From: Steve Sanders [mailto:steve...@umich.edu] Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 09:05 PM To: 'Law Religion issues for Law Academics' religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu; conlawp...@lists.ucla.edu conlawp...@lists.ucla.edu Subject: RE: Go to Church or Go to Jail? I suspect the response from the Alabama legislators would actually be more truculent! From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of hamilto...@aol.com Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 3:58 PM To: religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu; conlawp...@lists.ucla.edu Subject: Re: Go to Church or Go to Jail? First, this is hilarious. Second, it reminds me of my cousin, who is a principal at a public high school in Kentucky. When we were visiting several years ago, he left dinner early to draft the school prayer to be read over the PA for the next day. When I joked that that might be a problem for the Supreme Court, he just smiled. I would imagine that would be the response from the Alabama lawmakers on this issue. [cid:887100401@27092011-0C7E] Marci A. Hamilton Paul R. Verkuil Chair in Public Law Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law Yeshiva University 55 Fifth Avenue New York, NY 10003 215-353-8984 In a message dated 9/26/2011 5:41:16 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ma...@law.villanova.edu writes: That’s what it appears to be (sorry for cross-posting but this should be useful to subscribers on both lists looking for an exam question, to say nothing of the expected discussion). http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/26/jesus-or-jail-alabama-town-offers-options-for-serving-time/?hpt=hp_t2 Headline and first paragraph: Jesus or jail? Alabama town offers options for serving timehttp://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/26/jesus-or-jail-alabama-town-offers-options-for-serving-time/ If you're charged with a nonviolent crime in one Alabama town, you might just have the chance to pray it all away. Starting this week, under a new program called Operation ROC (Restore Our Community), local judges in Bay Minette, Alabama, will give those found guilty of misdemeanors the choice of serving out their time in jail, paying a fine or attending church each Sunday for a year. James Edward Maule Professor of Law Villanova University School of Law ma...@law.villanova.edu http://vls.law.villanova.edu/prof/maule = ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others. inline: marci%20hamilton%20signature%20cropped.jpg___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
RE: Go to Church or Go to Jail?
the enlistment deal is different; and lots people took it including a friend of mine who had killed some people in the DWI and was offered jail or the marines; he took the marines and after Nam went to law school and became a prosecutor. * Paul Finkelman, Ph.D. President William McKinley Distinguished Professor of Law Albany Law School 80 New Scotland Avenue Albany, NY 12208 518-445-3386 (p) 518-445-3363 (f) paul.finkel...@albanylaw.edu www.paulfinkelman.com * From: conlawprof-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [conlawprof-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] on behalf of Robert Sheridan [r...@robertsheridan.com] Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 6:40 PM To: Douglas Laycock Cc: Law Religion issues for Law Academics; conlawp...@lists.ucla.edu Subject: Re: Go to Church or Go to Jail? Being forced to pray to someone or something one doesn't believe in seems cruel and unusual punishment in violation of Amend-8, quite apart from what it does to Amend-1. As a (former) young prosecutor who observed a judge offer a defendant the choice of either jail or enlisting in the military, during Vietnam, I recall that no one went along with the WWII-era judge's proposed deal. I believe that this condition, too, has failed to pass constitutional muster, but you're on your own for a citation. On the other hand, at a much later date, I was happy to help clean up the record of a convicted person who wanted to enlist shortly after 9-11. rs I'd thought this list had gone to bed, as tho' there wuz nothing left to wrangle over... On Sep 26, 2011, at 3:06 PM, Douglas Laycock wrote: Much milder versions of this, such as go to jail or go to AA, have been litigated and held unconstitutional. This plan will have a short life. On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 17:37:51 -0400 James Edward Maule ma...@law.villanova.edu wrote: That's what it appears to be (sorry for cross-posting but this should be useful to subscribers on both lists looking for an exam question, to say nothing of the expected discussion). http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/26/jesus-or-jail-alabama-town-offers-options-for-serving-time/?hpt=hp_t2 Headline and first paragraph: Jesus or jail? Alabama town offers options for serving timehttp://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/26/jesus-or-jail-alabama-town-offers-options-for-serving-time/ If you're charged with a nonviolent crime in one Alabama town, you might just have the chance to pray it all away. Starting this week, under a new program called Operation ROC (Restore Our Community), local judges in Bay Minette, Alabama, will give those found guilty of misdemeanors the choice of serving out their time in jail, paying a fine or attending church each Sunday for a year. James Edward Maule Professor of Law Villanova University School of Law ma...@law.villanova.edu http://vls.law.villanova.edu/prof/maule Douglas Laycock Robert E. Scott Distinguished Professor of Law University of Virginia Law School 580 Massie Road Charlottesville, VA 22903 434-243-8546 ___ To post, send message to conlawp...@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/conlawprof Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others. ___ To post, send message to conlawp...@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/conlawprof Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others. ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
