RE: Why We Have Standing Rules
There have been efforts from within Islam to invoke law to silence all criticism of Islam-witness the persistent efforts at the UN (in various organs including UNESCO) to ban defamation of religion. In early versions, the language read especially Islam. But whatever the merits or demerits of allowing private acceptance of religious law- see the debate in Ontario over family law a couple of years ago- it is hard to see any justification in law for singling out Islam. A challenge to that is hardly an effort at a veto of all criticism of Islam, or religion generally, which is a horse of a very different color. Marc D. Stern Associate General Counsel 165 East 56th Street NY NY 10022 ste...@ajc.org 212.891.1480 646.287.2606 (cell) -Original Message- From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Douglas Laycock Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 11:56 AM To: religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu Subject: Why We Have Standing Rules The column below is from an online religion series edited by Martin Marty at the University of Chicago. I assume the author is a religion scholar and not a lawyer. But he has a very interesting description, short and nontechnical, of what sound like citizen suit provisions in Islamic law. I am confident that no list member who is frustrated with the lack of standing in Oklahoma is proposing anything remotely like this. But this is a reminder of the dangers of the other extreme. And maybe some hint of what CAIR was thinking when it rushed into the Oklahoma lawsuit. - Forwarded message from divsighti...@gmail.com - Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 07:53:42 -0600 From: Sightings divsighti...@gmail.com Subject: *Sightings* 11/11/2010 - Religion vs. Fiction in Egypt To: sighti...@lists.uchicago.edu *Sightings* 11/11/2010 *Religion vs. Fiction in Egypt* - M. Lynx Qualey Two years ago, a relatively unknown Egyptian professor of Arabic and Islamic studies took home the second annual International Prize for Arabic Fiction-or Arabic Booker-for his novel *Azazel*. It was only while in his forties that Dr. Youssef Ziedan, who has written 50-some books about Sufism, Islamic philosophy, and Arabic medicine, turned his attention to fiction. He published his second novel, *Azazel* (sometimes translated as *Beelzebub*), at the age of 50. Ziedan's prize-winning book purports to be the memoirs of a passionate fifth-century monk named Hypa, whose scrolls are unearthed by a twentieth-century translator. In writing *Azazel, *Ziedan became one of a few contemporary Egyptian novelists to tackle religion in his literary work. After all, writing about religion has had its dangers: The newspaper *Al-**Youm Al-Saba'a's *website was hacked because of their reported intention to publish Anis Deghreidi's fictional *Trials of the Prophet Muhammad **earlier this year*. Authors have had their books preemptively censored by publishers, such as Mohamed Mansi Qandil's lovely *Moon over Samarqand, *which has since been printed in full. Others have been dragged to court by fellow citizens such as author Nawal El-Saadawi. It is thus not surprising that Ziedan and *Azazel* have caused controversy. Members of Egypt's Coptic Christian community, including the outspoken Bishop Bishoy, have written extensive rebuttals to the 2008 fictional work. Coptic Christians make up most of Egypt's Christian population, the largest in the region. The word Copt once simply meant Egyptian, and the current Copts remained Christian during Egypt's shift to Arab-Muslim rule. Exact population figures are not known, but the most commonly given figure is six to eight million Copts among a total population of 80 million Egyptians. It was late this spring when a group of Coptic Christian lawyers filed a * hesba* lawsuit against Ziedan demanding a five-year prison sentence. They claim that, in statements made during a symposium, the author defamed Christianity. A group of Islamist lawyers also filed suit, because of Ziedan's statements about religion. Such *hesba* cases, through which citizens can file suit against other citizens, have become increasingly popular in Egypt. The attorney Nabih El-Wahsh-according to a suit filed against *him*-has filed more than a thousand such cases. Most of these have reportedly been against TV producers, filmmakers, and authors. It was El-Wahsh who dragged prominent novelist Nawal El-Saadawi and her husband, Sherif Hetata, to court in 2001, seeking to divorce the couple-against their will-on the grounds that El-Saadawi had expressed views that made her an apostate. El-Wahsh filed suit against El-Saadawi a second time in 2007, seeking to have her Egyptian citizenship annulled because of her views on religion. Fortunately, these cases, like nearly all those filed by El-Wahsh, were dismissed. *Hesba* is a long-established principle in Islamic jurisprudence. *Guardian *reporter Brian Whitaker quotes Egyptian scholar
RE: Why We Have Standing Rules
I certainly agree with Marc that the issue in Oklahoma is very different from an effort to silence all criticism of Islam. Singling out Islam versus a general rule about religious law, and government speech versus private speech, are obvious distinctions. I meant to comment only on the standing issue. And of course the merits might inform standing; we might want standing here to ensure that the Establishment Clause is enforceable by somebody. All I really meant to suggest is that however generously we might wish to approach standing, there has to be a limit somewhere, or we wind up with absurdity. Douglas Laycock Armistead M. Dobie Professor of Law University of Virginia Law School 580 Massie Road Charlottesville, VA 22903 434-243-8546 -Original Message- From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Marc Stern Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 3:04 PM To: 'Law Religion issues for Law Academics' Subject: RE: Why We Have Standing Rules There have been efforts from within Islam to invoke law to silence all criticism of Islam-witness the persistent efforts at the UN (in various organs including UNESCO) to ban defamation of religion. In early versions, the language read especially Islam. But whatever the merits or demerits of allowing private acceptance of religious law- see the debate in Ontario over family law a couple of years ago- it is hard to see any justification in law for singling out Islam. A challenge to that is hardly an effort at a veto of all criticism of Islam, or religion generally, which is a horse of a very different color. Marc D. Stern Associate General Counsel 165 East 56th Street NY NY 10022 ste...@ajc.org 212.891.1480 646.287.2606 (cell) -Original Message- From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Douglas Laycock Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 11:56 AM To: religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu Subject: Why We Have Standing Rules The column below is from an online religion series edited by Martin Marty at the University of Chicago. I assume the author is a religion scholar and not a lawyer. But he has a very interesting description, short and nontechnical, of what sound like citizen suit provisions in Islamic law. I am confident that no list member who is frustrated with the lack of standing in Oklahoma is proposing anything remotely like this. But this is a reminder of the dangers of the other extreme. And maybe some hint of what CAIR was thinking when it rushed into the Oklahoma lawsuit. - Forwarded message from divsighti...@gmail.com - Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 07:53:42 -0600 From: Sightings divsighti...@gmail.com Subject: *Sightings* 11/11/2010 - Religion vs. Fiction in Egypt To: sighti...@lists.uchicago.edu *Sightings* 11/11/2010 *Religion vs. Fiction in Egypt* - M. Lynx Qualey Two years ago, a relatively unknown Egyptian professor of Arabic and Islamic studies took home the second annual International Prize for Arabic Fiction-or Arabic Booker-for his novel *Azazel*. It was only while in his forties that Dr. Youssef Ziedan, who has written 50-some books about Sufism, Islamic philosophy, and Arabic medicine, turned his attention to fiction. He published his second novel, *Azazel* (sometimes translated as *Beelzebub*), at the age of 50. Ziedan's prize-winning book purports to be the memoirs of a passionate fifth-century monk named Hypa, whose scrolls are unearthed by a twentieth-century translator. In writing *Azazel, *Ziedan became one of a few contemporary Egyptian novelists to tackle religion in his literary work. After all, writing about religion has had its dangers: The newspaper *Al-**Youm Al-Saba'a's *website was hacked because of their reported intention to publish Anis Deghreidi's fictional *Trials of the Prophet Muhammad **earlier this year*. Authors have had their books preemptively censored by publishers, such as Mohamed Mansi Qandil's lovely *Moon over Samarqand, *which has since been printed in full. Others have been dragged to court by fellow citizens such as author Nawal El-Saadawi. It is thus not surprising that Ziedan and *Azazel* have caused controversy. Members of Egypt's Coptic Christian community, including the outspoken Bishop Bishoy, have written extensive rebuttals to the 2008 fictional work. Coptic Christians make up most of Egypt's Christian population, the largest in the region. The word Copt once simply meant Egyptian, and the current Copts remained Christian during Egypt's shift to Arab-Muslim rule. Exact population figures are not known, but the most commonly given figure is six to eight million Copts among a total population of 80 million Egyptians. It was late this spring when a group of Coptic Christian lawyers filed a * hesba* lawsuit against Ziedan demanding a five-year prison sentence. They claim that, in statements made during a symposium, the author defamed
