RE: [Repeater-Builder] Doubling Power Output On UHF Repeater
You're right Nate. These people will only notice 3 dB in their dreams. We could change power on their repeater day to day and they'd never know the difference. Bill - W6CBS _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nate Duehr Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 10:10 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Doubling Power Output On UHF Repeater On Nov 2, 2007, at 10:53 PM, WD7F - John in Tucson wrote: And why not? That's six S-units. Try 1/2 of an S-Unit. -- Nate Duehr, WY0X [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:nate%40natetech.com com BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Hudson;Bill FN:Bill Hudson ORG:Hudson Sports Productions TITLE:Broadcast Engineer TEL;WORK;VOICE:(650) 595-5566 TEL;HOME;VOICE:(650) 595-5566 TEL;CELL;VOICE:(650) 576-5656 TEL;WORK;FAX:(650) 591-8859 TEL;PREF:1-650-595-5566 ADR;WORK:;650-576-5656 LABEL;WORK:650-576-5656 ADR;HOME:;;82 Cedar St;San Carlos;California;94070;United States of America LABEL;HOME;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:82 Cedar St=0D=0ASan Carlos, California 94070=0D=0AUnited States of America BDAY:20070330 EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] REV:20070816T214519Z END:VCARD
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Doubling Power Output On UHF Repeater
One of my standard lines: Standards are good, because there are so many to choose from. Bill - W6CBS _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nate Duehr Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 11:40 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Doubling Power Output On UHF Repeater On Nov 2, 2007, at 11:30 PM, MCH wrote: Only if you're using a rig with a skewed S-meter (and today many are made that way). There are standards for proper S-meter calibration. There's even more than one standard! Standards, you gotta love 'em. Everyone should have one. ;-) -- Nate Duehr [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:nate%40natetech.com com BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Hudson;Bill FN:Bill Hudson ORG:Hudson Sports Productions TITLE:Broadcast Engineer TEL;WORK;VOICE:(650) 595-5566 TEL;HOME;VOICE:(650) 595-5566 TEL;CELL;VOICE:(650) 576-5656 TEL;WORK;FAX:(650) 591-8859 TEL;PREF:1-650-595-5566 ADR;WORK:;650-576-5656 LABEL;WORK:650-576-5656 ADR;HOME:;;82 Cedar St;San Carlos;California;94070;United States of America LABEL;HOME;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:82 Cedar St=0D=0ASan Carlos, California 94070=0D=0AUnited States of America BDAY:20070330 EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] REV:20070816T214519Z END:VCARD
[Repeater-Builder] Motorola 150W PA
OK, more questions for the collective. (Yes, I know - doesn't he ever quit?? hehehe) I'm about to delve into converting one of the 150W Motorola STF2520A power amplifiers for my 900 MHz repeater. I read on the VHFSouth web page, where the conversion/modification procedures are listed, references to voltage and a yellow wire inside which was called the enable wire. So here are my questions: 1) Does this PA require a main power source of 24VDC or 12VDC? I'm thinking 24 - 28VDC, and I want to make sure that I don't let the magic smoke out, but the verbiage there was a bit confusing. (The power wires are pretty easy to pick out, but note that the enable line is the yellow wire. It calls for +15 volts, but we are told that +13.6V will do the job.) Does the reference to it mean the enable wire only?? 2) Regarding this enable wire - is the enable function contained within the Control Board of the PA, i.e. RF sense, or should it need to be fed with an independent source? 3) And one last question about the enable wire - IF it needs to be fed with an independent source, should I relay it (such as tied to COR) so the PA is only enabled when TX is present, or does that really matter? (Can it run 24/7/365?) I plan on mounting the PA board(s) themselves on the main heat sink in the Glenayre station cabinet I have. (I've stripped out all the Glenayre PA components.) It is supplied with a HUGE cooling fan, so I am not overly worried about heat issues with the PA once installed. Unfortunately, nobody has answered any inquiries I posted directly to VHF South, or to AA9IL. This is the final phase of construction, so understandably I'm anxious to finish this project and get it on-the-air. If anyone can assist me - either on list of off - please do so! Thanks in advance! Mark - N9WYS For direct replies: n9wys at ameritech dot net
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Doubling Power Output On UHF Repeater
At 11/2/2007 22:30, you wrote: Only if you're using a rig with a skewed S-meter (and today many are made that way). There are standards for proper S-meter calibration. No S-meter involved. A 3 dB increase in signal can make the difference between unreadable readable. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Doubling Power Output On UHF Repeater
--- MCH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Only if you're using a rig with a skewed S-meter (and today many are made that way). There are standards for proper S-meter calibration. While most people seem to agree that there is a standard, almost no receiver is calibrated to the 'standard'. The low band receivers are usually set where it takes more power per S-unit and the VHF and above receivers take less power to move the S-meter. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
[Repeater-Builder] Micor Audio on VERY WEAK SIGNALS
Hi Guys, A question for the MICOR fans that may have experienced a similar dilemma I am having with one of our three Micor Repeaters. All three are Micor VHF Bases, converted to repeater duty using the information I obtained from this group. All three have Cat 200 Controllers and unless I have missed something all are wired the same. When a weak signal, like from a portable radio or a station far away comes in I have quite a bit of background (white noise). I have noticed that if I listen to the audio from the Micor Speaker, it appears to me that much of the white noise is gone and the signal is much more understandable. Now this audio test is being performed with the TX on, so I have determined that there is no noticeable desense. The first thing I did was check the input audio into the Cat200 and make sure the voltages were set to the book, which they were. I have also taken into consideration that the Micor Speaker may reproduce the audio better than the HT or Mobile, but there is still enough difference that I wish the repeater audio, on weak signals only, sounded as good as the Micor RX direct to the speaker. I am using Discriminator Audio on all the repeaters and have the controller set properly for that. The only way to explain a weak signal is the background seems to be pumped up. Any ideas I will look into on my next trip to Pa. 73 Jim KA2AJH Wellsville, NY
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Audio on VERY WEAK SIGNALS
Jim, If the end-to-end audio pre-emphasis and de-emphasis is not complementary, the audio will sound very bright, tinny, and noisy. Also, check to see if the audio is getting pre-emphasized twice- that will really make it bright. If you have access to an audio sweep generator and a digital storage o-scope, you can look at the audio responses and track down where it is not what is should be. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Cicirello Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 8:11 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Audio on VERY WEAK SIGNALS Hi Guys, A question for the MICOR fans that may have experienced a similar dilemma I am having with one of our three Micor Repeaters. All three are Micor VHF Bases, converted to repeater duty using the information I obtained from this group. All three have Cat 200 Controllers and unless I have missed something all are wired the same. When a weak signal, like from a portable radio or a station far away comes in I have quite a bit of background (white noise). I have noticed that if I listen to the audio from the Micor Speaker, it appears to me that much of the white noise is gone and the signal is much more understandable. Now this audio test is being performed with the TX on, so I have determined that there is no noticeable desense. The first thing I did was check the input audio into the Cat200 and make sure the voltages were set to the book, which they were. I have also taken into consideration that the Micor Speaker may reproduce the audio better than the HT or Mobile, but there is still enough difference that I wish the repeater audio, on weak signals only, sounded as good as the Micor RX direct to the speaker. I am using Discriminator Audio on all the repeaters and have the controller set properly for that. The only way to explain a weak signal is the background seems to be pumped up. Any ideas I will look into on my next trip to Pa. 73 Jim KA2AJH Wellsville, NY
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Doubling Power Output On UHF Repeater
One more commentlet's see if I can make it without getting egg on my face... The older receivers such as my Collins 74A4 called for a 100uv (that's microvolts) input to get S9 and my Kenwood 820 said 50uv for the same...so that should give you an idea how important it is to give a 59 signal report...hi hi. And then I have an ICOM with two different pre-amp levels in addition to none..so, I could give someone three S reports. de WD7F John - Original Message - From: Ralph Mowery [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 7:40 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Doubling Power Output On UHF Repeater Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Singer FM10C (yes I know its old, but)
Hi All I have a Singer/Gertsch FM10C , sn 135 with a bad scope. The Oscope is Singer model ODM 1 Sn492 I have traced my problem, (noise on scope trace) to the Vertical Amp Board The board in my ODM 1 is a 5-003204-005 Revision D My manual has the diagram of a 4-003204-008 Revision A3 Therein lies my problem Does anyone have the schematic for the 3204-005 rev d that they can scan into an email. You can identify the board by the lack of intergrated circuits. the 008revA3 has2 IC's , 5 transistors and the 005revD has only transistors 8total. Thanks in advance Ralph, W7HSG ---BeginMessage--- At 11/2/2007 22:30, you wrote: Only if you're using a rig with a skewed S-meter (and today many are made that way). There are standards for proper S-meter calibration. No S-meter involved. A 3 dB increase in signal can make the difference between unreadable readable. Bob NO6B ---End Message---
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Doubling Power Output On UHF Repeater
The IARU has a recommended level. Go here: www.algonet.se/~k-jarl/ssa/IARU/smeter.html I found this link on the ARRL Web site. -93 dBm equals 5 uV, -73 dBm equals 50 uV, and -67 dBm equals 100 uV. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of WD7F - John in Tucson Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 9:34 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Doubling Power Output On UHF Repeater One more commentlet's see if I can make it without getting egg on my face... The older receivers such as my Collins 74A4 called for a 100uv (that's microvolts) input to get S9 and my Kenwood 820 said 50uv for the same...so that should give you an idea how important it is to give a 59 signal report...hi hi. And then I have an ICOM with two different pre-amp levels in addition to none..so, I could give someone three S reports. de WD7F John
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor Audio on VERY WEAK SIGNALS
Jim, this can easily happen with any brand of repeater, if audio is not adjusted correctly. The transmitter has a deviation control, yes? Well, that control has nothing to do with what I am talking about. Some transmitters could have another control called -mic gain-, -mic sensitivity-, something else, or not have it at all. But there is an adjustment(s) somewhere in your audio chain that does exactly the same thing. This is how much audio you are feeding to your transmitter from your controller, BEFORE the clipper/filter. Normally, you first set the deviation control, usually for nominal 5 kc. deviation, making sure that the clipper is being hit hard enough to be the stage that is determining the max deviation. Now, you set the amount of audio into the transmitter, normally for maybe 2 kc. in/2 kc. out of the repeater. It is tempting to crank this a little, because the repeater audio gets a little louder, and louder is good, right? g But adjusting this to perhaps 2 in/3 or 4 out invariably causes noisy signals coming into the repeater to get (sound) noisier; the amount depending on how much you have cranked up the audio. I know, because I have, and am still tempted to do so myself. Check this ratio, and stick to 2 in/2 out. Laryn K8TVZ --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Jim Cicirello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Guys, A question for the MICOR fans that may have experienced a similar dilemma I am having with one of our three Micor Repeaters. All three are Micor VHF Bases, converted to repeater duty using the information I obtained from this group. All three have Cat 200 Controllers and unless I have missed something all are wired the same. When a weak signal, like from a portable radio or a station far away comes in I have quite a bit of background (white noise). I have noticed that if I listen to the audio from the Micor Speaker, it appears to me that much of the white noise is gone and the signal is much more understandable. Now this audio test is being performed with the TX on, so I have determined that there is no noticeable desense. The first thing I did was check the input audio into the Cat200 and make sure the voltages were set to the book, which they were. I have also taken into consideration that the Micor Speaker may reproduce the audio better than the HT or Mobile, but there is still enough difference that I wish the repeater audio, on weak signals only, sounded as good as the Micor RX direct to the speaker. I am using Discriminator Audio on all the repeaters and have the controller set properly for that. The only way to explain a weak signal is the background seems to be pumped up. Any ideas I will look into on my next trip to Pa. 73 Jim KA2AJH Wellsville, NY
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Radio recommendations ??
On Fri, 2 Nov 2007, wb6ymh wrote: The 30 watt version is a better radio for repeater service since all solid state transmitters are very inefficient when run below their designed output. A 30 watt Mitrek running at 15 watts will probably last forever, but a 50 watt Mitrek running at 20 watts gets way too hot for my tastes. It would probably be ok with a fan, but I really didn't want a fan for numerous reasons. Well the radio is only specified to run a certain percentage in transmit anyway, but at this point, you can probably get a dump-truck load of Mitreks for the asking. That will give you enough radios to keep the repeater running until Doomsday. All you need is a few channel elements, and you can skip using lightning protection altogether. If a Mitrek falls in the forest, does it make a noise? -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR [EMAIL PROTECTED] But remember, with no superpowers comes no responsibility. --rly
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Audio on VERY WEAK SIGNALS
Thanks for the information Eric. I don't have the equipment you mentioned, but I will retrace everything on this repeater compared to the original and see if something is different that hopefully pops out. 73 Jim KA2AJH _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 11:35 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Audio on VERY WEAK SIGNALS Jim, If the end-to-end audio pre-emphasis and de-emphasis is not complementary, the audio will sound very bright, tinny, and noisy. Also, check to see if the audio is getting pre-emphasized twice- that will really make it bright. If you have access to an audio sweep generator and a digital storage o-scope, you can look at the audio responses and track down where it is not what is should be. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Cicirello Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 8:11 AM To: Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Audio on VERY WEAK SIGNALS Hi Guys, A question for the MICOR fans that may have experienced a similar dilemma I am having with one of our three Micor Repeaters. All three are Micor VHF Bases, converted to repeater duty using the information I obtained from this group. All three have Cat 200 Controllers and unless I have missed something all are wired the same. When a weak signal, like from a portable radio or a station far away comes in I have quite a bit of background (white noise). I have noticed that if I listen to the audio from the Micor Speaker, it appears to me that much of the white noise is gone and the signal is much more understandable. Now this audio test is being performed with the TX on, so I have determined that there is no noticeable desense. The first thing I did was check the input audio into the Cat200 and make sure the voltages were set to the book, which they were. I have also taken into consideration that the Micor Speaker may reproduce the audio better than the HT or Mobile, but there is still enough difference that I wish the repeater audio, on weak signals only, sounded as good as the Micor RX direct to the speaker. I am using Discriminator Audio on all the repeaters and have the controller set properly for that. The only way to explain a weak signal is the background seems to be pumped up. Any ideas I will look into on my next trip to Pa. 73 Jim KA2AJH Wellsville, NY
[Repeater-Builder] Quintron / Glenayre Universal Exciter
Hello All, I have on the bench a working universal exciter presently on 931.7125. I need to obtain a new channel prom for it with two new frequencies in it for the ham band. Does anyone out there have this ability in which I could purchase from? If so, please reply off list with how much for the prom and two frequencies burnt into it. Thanks in advance! Adam N2ACF
[Repeater-Builder] Yaesu Charger
Looking for the schematic for a Yaesu /Vertex CD15A. Charger is used with the Yaesu/Vertex VX-7R I can't seem to find any information anywhere. Can anyone help Ralph, W7HSG ---BeginMessage--- On Fri, 2 Nov 2007, wb6ymh wrote: The 30 watt version is a better radio for repeater service since all solid state transmitters are very inefficient when run below their designed output. A 30 watt Mitrek running at 15 watts will probably last forever, but a 50 watt Mitrek running at 20 watts gets way too hot for my tastes. It would probably be ok with a fan, but I really didn't want a fan for numerous reasons. Well the radio is only specified to run a certain percentage in transmit anyway, but at this point, you can probably get a dump-truck load of Mitreks for the asking. That will give you enough radios to keep the repeater running until Doomsday. All you need is a few channel elements, and you can skip using lightning protection altogether. If a Mitrek falls in the forest, does it make a noise? -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR [EMAIL PROTECTED]us But remember, with no superpowers comes no responsibility. --rly ---End Message---
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Yaesu Charger
I looked through the service manual for the VX-7R on the off chance that it would have the charger schematic, but there was no mention of it. Richard http://www.n7tgb.net/ www.n7tgb.net _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 5:19 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Yaesu Charger Looking for the schematic for a Yaesu /Vertex CD15A. Charger is used with the Yaesu/Vertex VX-7R I can't seem to find any information anywhere. Can anyone help Ralph, W7HSG
[Repeater-Builder] Crystals Motorola etc
Hi All Looking for information on who makes crystals for channel elements. Micor's and Mitrek Yes, I know that International makes them but the price is high. I have had good luck putting crystals in old channel elements and changing the caps as necessary to achieve reasonable stability. Used to use CUMEX in El Paso but they seem to be gone Ralph, W7HSG ---BeginMessage--- On Fri, 2 Nov 2007, wb6ymh wrote: The 30 watt version is a better radio for repeater service since all solid state transmitters are very inefficient when run below their designed output. A 30 watt Mitrek running at 15 watts will probably last forever, but a 50 watt Mitrek running at 20 watts gets way too hot for my tastes. It would probably be ok with a fan, but I really didn't want a fan for numerous reasons. Well the radio is only specified to run a certain percentage in transmit anyway, but at this point, you can probably get a dump-truck load of Mitreks for the asking. That will give you enough radios to keep the repeater running until Doomsday. All you need is a few channel elements, and you can skip using lightning protection altogether. If a Mitrek falls in the forest, does it make a noise? -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR [EMAIL PROTECTED]us But remember, with no superpowers comes no responsibility. --rly ---End Message---
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Audio on VERY WEAK SIGNALS
Put your MICOR speaker on the (mobile?) radio you are listening to, this will give you an apples to apples comparison. I use a MICOR speaker in my work truck, it's connected to a Kenwood 742, and yes, it makes a BIG difference. Kevin Custer Jim Cicirello wrote: Hi Guys, A question for the MICOR fans that may have experienced a similar dilemma I am having with one of our three Micor Repeaters. All three are Micor VHF Bases, converted to repeater duty using the information I obtained from this group. All three have Cat 200 Controllers and unless I have missed something all are wired the same. When a weak signal, like from a portable radio or a station far away comes in I have quite a bit of background (white noise). I have noticed that if I listen to the audio from the Micor Speaker, it appears to me that much of the white noise is gone and the signal is much more understandable. Now this audio test is being performed with the TX on, so I have determined that there is no noticeable desense. The first thing I did was check the input audio into the Cat200 and make sure the voltages were set to the book, which they were. I have also taken into consideration that the Micor Speaker may reproduce the audio better than the HT or Mobile, but there is still enough difference that I wish the repeater audio, on weak signals only, sounded as good as the Micor RX direct to the speaker. I am using Discriminator Audio on all the repeaters and have the controller set properly for that. The only way to explain a weak signal is the background seems to be pumped up. Any ideas I will look into on my next trip to Pa. 73 Jim KA2AJH Wellsville, NY
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Crystals Motorola etc
Repeater Builder uses BOMAR for the most part, ICM for the rest. http://www.bomarcrystal.com/ Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All Looking for information on who makes crystals for channel elements. Micor's and Mitrek Yes, I know that International makes them but the price is high. I have had good luck putting crystals in old channel elements and changing the caps as necessary to achieve reasonable stability. Used to use CUMEX in El Paso but they seem to be gone Ralph, W7HSG
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Crystals Motorola etc
Ralph, Check out BOMAR crystals. You might be surprised at their prices. Also, I believe that Repeater-Builder, the company, uses them. Check in with Kevin and Scott to get all of the particulars. Go here: http://www.bomarcrystal.com/home3.htm Don, KD9PT - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 6:22 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Crystals Motorola etc Hi All Looking for information on who makes crystals for channel elements. Micor's and Mitrek Yes, I know that International makes them but the price is high. I have had good luck putting crystals in old channel elements and changing the caps as necessary to achieve reasonable stability. Used to use CUMEX in El Paso but they seem to be gone Ralph, W7HSG Yahoo! Groups Links !DSPAM:1016,472d1a3b914631450673570!
[Repeater-Builder] zetron 38a
Folks, I just got a Zetron 38A at a hamfest. Works fine in the repeater but I have tried the password code and no results. It is listed in the book as 12123#. Someone must have changed it... What do I do now? Can it be set back to a factory default? thanks, ron
Re: [Repeater-Builder] zetron 38a
take out the chip with the battery and unplug the chip from the battery give it 3 mins or so and put it back should default. - Original Message - From: rwjohn49 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 9:11 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] zetron 38a Folks, I just got a Zetron 38A at a hamfest. Works fine in the repeater but I have tried the password code and no results. It is listed in the book as 12123#. Someone must have changed it... What do I do now? Can it be set back to a factory default? thanks, ron
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Crystals Motorola etc
Ralph, Before you make a decision on your supplier, please read the following article: www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/temperature-compensation.html Unless you have a testing laboratory equal to that found in a commercial crystal house, I suspect that your good luck is more likely blind luck, and does not justify putting new crystals in previously-compensated channel elements. I and many others believe that the $30 extra spent for a full compensation is money well spent. Otherwise, your crystal that you think is doing just fine may have deficiencies that you don't know about, and don't have the equipment to detect. I'm not just talking about rare cases here- a local 220 repeater was notorious for drifting rapidly off frequency during extended net operation and distorted audio. It was a converted Mastr II that the owner recrystaled himself. When confronted with the complaint that the frequency drifted, he was in denial because he said he bought the crystal from ICM! Once the crystal was sent back to ICM with the ICOM and fully compensated for $30, the repeater worked perfectly. Not only was the drifting problem solved, but the audio clarity was profoundly improved. It seems that the ICOM was originally compensated for a factory-made crystal that had different characteristics from the new crystal made by ICM. Since ICM was not given the ICOM in advance, ICM had no way to test or modify the ICOM to work properly with the new crystal. In my book, it makes sense to always get the full compensation of a new crystal to the ICOM or channel element. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 5:22 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Crystals Motorola etc Hi All Looking for information on who makes crystals for channel elements. Micor's and Mitrek Yes, I know that International makes them but the price is high. I have had good luck putting crystals in old channel elements and changing the caps as necessary to achieve reasonable stability. Used to use CUMEX in El Paso but they seem to be gone Ralph, W7HSG
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Crystals Motorola etc
Eric, Thanks for the reply Lab is not equal to testing lab but is OK. Cumex were cheap crystals and managed to compensate ok. Bomar which everyone seems to recommend makes much better crystals. I have a small oven and an ERI counter good to .1 hz at 440. I can cycle and adjust within reason. Ralph -- Original message -- From: Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ralph, Before you make a decision on your supplier, please read the following article: www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/temperature-compensation.html Unless you have a testing laboratory equal to that found in a commercial crystal house, I suspect that your good luck is more likely blind luck, and does not justify putting new crystals in previously-compensated channel elements. I and many others believe that the $30 extra spent for a full compensation is money well spent. Otherwise, your crystal that you think is doing just fine may have deficiencies that you don't know about, and don't have the equipment to detect. I'm not just talking about rare cases here- a local 220 repeater was notorious for drifting rapidly off frequency during extended net operation and distorted audio. It was a converted Mastr II that the owner recrystaled himself. When confronted with the complaint that the frequency drifted, he was in denial because he said he bought the crystal from ICM! Once the crystal was sent back to ICM with the ICOM and fully compensated for $30, the repeater worked perfectly. Not only was the drifting problem solved, but the audio clarity was profoundly improved. It seems that the ICOM was originally compensated for a factory-made crystal that had different characteristics from the new crystal made by ICM. Since ICM was not given the ICOM in advance, ICM had no way to test or modify the ICOM to work properly with the new crystal. In my book, it makes sense to always get the full compensation of a new crystal to the ICOM or channel element. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 5:22 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Crystals Motorola etc Hi All Looking for information on who makes crystals for channel elements. Micor's and Mitrek Yes, I know that International makes them but the price is high. I have had good luck putting crystals in old channel elements and changing the caps as necessary to achieve reasonable stability. Used to use CUMEX in El Paso but they seem to be gone Ralph, W7HSG ---BeginMessage--- Ralph, Before you make a decision on your supplier, please read the following article: www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/temperature-compensation.html Unless you have a testing laboratory equal to that found in a commercial crystal house, I suspect that your good luck is more likely blind luck, and does not justify putting new crystals in previously-compensated channel elements. I and many others believe that the $30 extra spent for a full compensation is money well spent. Otherwise, your crystal that you think is doing just fine may have deficiencies that you don't know about, and don't have the equipment to detect. I'm not just talking about rare cases here- a local 220 repeater was notorious for drifting rapidly off frequency during extended net operation and distorted audio. It was a converted Mastr II that the owner recrystaled himself. When confronted with the complaint that the frequency drifted, he was in denial because he said he bought the crystal from ICM! Once the crystal was sent back to ICM with the ICOM and fully compensated for $30, the repeater worked perfectly. Not only was the drifting problem solved, but the audio clarity was profoundly improved. It seems that the ICOM was originally compensated for a factory-made crystal that had different characteristics from the new crystal made by ICM. Since ICM was not given the ICOM in advance, ICM had no way to test or modify the ICOM to work properly with the new crystal. In my book, it makes sense to always get the full compensation of a new crystal to the ICOM or channel element. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]net Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 5:22 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Crystals Motorola etc Hi All Looking for information on who makes crystals for channel elements. Micor's and Mitrek Yes, I know that International makes them but the price is high. I have had good luck putting crystals in old channel elements and changing the caps as necessary to achieve reasonable stability. Used to use CUMEX in El Paso but they seem to be gone Ralph, W7HSG
[Repeater-Builder] used Micor repeater vhf crystals + element needed??
Hi all if someone would have a pair of used Channell elements with their crystals,let me know with your frequency! i needa pair and maybe i can find here a set that would tx in my region, thanks for your help gervais ve2ckn _ Envoie un sourire, fais rire, amuse-toi! Employez-le maintenant! http://www.emoticonesgratuites.ca/?icid=EMFRCA120
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Crystals Motorola etc
I use Bomar these days for crystals for the ham bands. I have had good luck installing them myself and re-adjusting them in a year or so back to the right frequency. I recently worked on a GE Delta radio that had been crystaled using CUMEX and found the receive crystal had drifted over 2 kHz in the several years it had been in service. It was so far off it would not adust back to the original frequency until I ran the adjustment slug on down through the coil form and added another slug on top of it. Now with two slugs in the coil, it wound up back on frequency. I don't know if it will continue to drift, or if it has settled down, but for now it is working just fine. I used Marden for crystals until I got into a beef with them on a receive frequency and gave up after sending an operating crystal back to them a couple of times and telling them what frequency it operated on, and them sending it back and telling me what frequency they thought it operated on. 73 - Jim W5ZIT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All Looking for information on who makes crystals for channel elements. Micor's and Mitrek Yes, I know that International makes them but the price is high. I have had good luck putting crystals in old channel elements and changing the caps as necessary to achieve reasonable stability. Used to use CUMEX in El Paso but they seem to be gone Ralph, W7HSG From: Kris Kirby [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Radio recommendations ?? Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 23:32:48 + On Fri, 2 Nov 2007, wb6ymh wrote: The 30 watt version is a better radio for repeater service since all solid state transmitters are very inefficient when run below their designed output. A 30 watt Mitrek running at 15 watts will probably last forever, but a 50 watt Mitrek running at 20 watts gets way too hot for my tastes. It would probably be ok with a fan, but I really didn't want a fan for numerous reasons. Well the radio is only specified to run a certain percentage in transmit anyway, but at this point, you can probably get a dump-truck load of Mitreks for the asking. That will give you enough radios to keep the repeater running until Doomsday. All you need is a few channel elements, and you can skip using lightning protection altogether. If a Mitrek falls in the forest, does it make a noise? -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR [EMAIL PROTECTED] But remember, with no superpowers comes no responsibility. --rly __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] zetron 38a
Look inside the unit and find the ram IC that is plugged into the Dallas Semiconductor battery backup chip. Remove the ram IC from the battery backup chip for several seconds and plug it back in. It will default back to the factory original 12123. The controller will not be in the normal RS-232 control mode (be sure you build the special cable shown in the manual) after this operation though. It will be in the 'Model 8' mode. Here is the way to get it back into the normal RS-232 mode so you can enter the 12123 and get access: If the port is currently set for Model 8 mode and DTMF programming on the radio channel is not possible, the terminal may be used to simulate a Model 8 to change the settings. Perform the following procedure: Set the terminal for 4800 baud, then cycle power on the Model 38. The message READY will appear on the terminal, followed by a _ prompt. On the CRT, type in 19, then press the ENTER key. The message CRT should appear, (selects CRT mode) and press ENTER. When the _ prompt returns, type in 1 and press ENTER. Now cycle power on the panel to get the Enter Password == _ prompt. 73 - Jim W5ZIT rwjohn49 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Folks, I just got a Zetron 38A at a hamfest. Works fine in the repeater but I have tried the password code and no results. It is listed in the book as 12123#. Someone must have changed it... What do I do now? Can it be set back to a factory default? thanks, ron __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Audio on VERY WEAK SIGNALS
This may be out in left field, but I have built several repeaters using the CAT300 controller (not the CAT200) and the 300 had no way to de-emphasize the discriminator audio. I have used an external series 15 K and shunt .22 cap to supply the discriminator audio to the CAT300 and it sounds great. Maybe one of your repeaters does not have the de-emphasis circuit installed, or if it is available on the CAT200, maybe it is not set in the right mode. 73 - Jim W5ZIT Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jim, If the end-to-end audio pre-emphasis and de-emphasis is not complementary, the audio will sound very bright, tinny, and noisy. Also, check to see if the audio is getting pre-emphasized twice- that will really make it bright. If you have access to an audio sweep generator and a digital storage o-scope, you can look at the audio responses and track down where it is not what is should be. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Cicirello Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 8:11 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Audio on VERY WEAK SIGNALS Hi Guys, A question for the MICOR fans that may have experienced a similar dilemma I am having with one of our three Micor Repeaters. All three are Micor VHF Bases, converted to repeater duty using the information I obtained from this group. All three have Cat 200 Controllers and unless I have missed something all are wired the same. When a weak signal, like from a portable radio or a station far away comes in I have quite a bit of background (white noise). I have noticed that if I listen to the audio from the Micor Speaker, it appears to me that much of the white noise is gone and the signal is much more understandable. Now this audio test is being performed with the TX on, so I have determined that there is no noticeable desense. The first thing I did was check the input audio into the Cat200 and make sure the voltages were set to the book, which they were. I have also taken into consideration that the Micor Speaker may reproduce the audio better than the HT or Mobile, but there is still enough difference that I wish the repeater audio, on weak signals only, sounded as good as the Micor RX direct to the speaker. I am using Discriminator Audio on all the repeaters and have the controller set properly for that. The only way to explain a weak signal is the background seems to be pumped up. Any ideas I will look into on my next trip to Pa. 73 Jim KA2AJH Wellsville, NY __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor Audio on VERY WEAK SIGNALS
Thanks Laryn, I will take the service monitor and on duplex I can put in 2 or 3 kHZ and read the output and see if it is the same. Good idea! 73 JIM _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Laryn Lohman Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 3:15 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor Audio on VERY WEAK SIGNALS Jim, this can easily happen with any brand of repeater, if audio is not adjusted correctly. The transmitter has a deviation control, yes? Well, that control has nothing to do with what I am talking about. Some transmitters could have another control called -mic gain-, -mic sensitivity-, something else, or not have it at all. But there is an adjustment(s) somewhere in your audio chain that does exactly the same thing. This is how much audio you are feeding to your transmitter from your controller, BEFORE the clipper/filter. Normally, you first set the deviation control, usually for nominal 5 kc. deviation, making sure that the clipper is being hit hard enough to be the stage that is determining the max deviation. Now, you set the amount of audio into the transmitter, normally for maybe 2 kc. in/2 kc. out of the repeater. It is tempting to crank this a little, because the repeater audio gets a little louder, and louder is good, right? g But adjusting this to perhaps 2 in/3 or 4 out invariably causes noisy signals coming into the repeater to get (sound) noisier; the amount depending on how much you have cranked up the audio. I know, because I have, and am still tempted to do so myself. Check this ratio, and stick to 2 in/2 out. Laryn K8TVZ --- In Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com, Jim Cicirello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Guys, A question for the MICOR fans that may have experienced a similar dilemma I am having with one of our three Micor Repeaters. All three are Micor VHF Bases, converted to repeater duty using the information I obtained from this group. All three have Cat 200 Controllers and unless I have missed something all are wired the same. When a weak signal, like from a portable radio or a station far away comes in I have quite a bit of background (white noise). I have noticed that if I listen to the audio from the Micor Speaker, it appears to me that much of the white noise is gone and the signal is much more understandable. Now this audio test is being performed with the TX on, so I have determined that there is no noticeable desense. The first thing I did was check the input audio into the Cat200 and make sure the voltages were set to the book, which they were. I have also taken into consideration that the Micor Speaker may reproduce the audio better than the HT or Mobile, but there is still enough difference that I wish the repeater audio, on weak signals only, sounded as good as the Micor RX direct to the speaker. I am using Discriminator Audio on all the repeaters and have the controller set properly for that. The only way to explain a weak signal is the background seems to be pumped up. Any ideas I will look into on my next trip to Pa. 73 Jim KA2AJH Wellsville, NY
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Audio on VERY WEAK SIGNALS
I will recheck that Circuit Jim. It won't hurt to double check. 73 and thanks JIM KA2AJH _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 12:25 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Audio on VERY WEAK SIGNALS This may be out in left field, but I have built several repeaters using the CAT300 controller (not the CAT200) and the 300 had no way to de-emphasize the discriminator audio. I have used an external series 15 K and shunt .22 cap to supply the discriminator audio to the CAT300 and it sounds great. Maybe one of your repeaters does not have the de-emphasis circuit installed, or if it is available on the CAT200, maybe it is not set in the right mode. 73 - Jim W5ZIT Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jim, If the end-to-end audio pre-emphasis and de-emphasis is not complementary, the audio will sound very bright, tinny, and noisy. Also, check to see if the audio is getting pre-emphasized twice- that will really make it bright. If you have access to an audio sweep generator and a digital storage o-scope, you can look at the audio responses and track down where it is not what is should be. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Cicirello Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 8:11 AM To: Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Audio on VERY WEAK SIGNALS Hi Guys, A question for the MICOR fans that may have experienced a similar dilemma I am having with one of our three Micor Repeaters. All three are Micor VHF Bases, converted to repeater duty using the information I obtained from this group. All three have Cat 200 Controllers and unless I have missed something all are wired the same. When a weak signal, like from a portable radio or a station far away comes in I have quite a bit of background (white noise). I have noticed that if I listen to the audio from the Micor Speaker, it appears to me that much of the white noise is gone and the signal is much more understandable. Now this audio test is being performed with the TX on, so I have determined that there is no noticeable desense. The first thing I did was check the input audio into the Cat200 and make sure the voltages were set to the book, which they were. I have also taken into consideration that the Micor Speaker may reproduce the audio better than the HT or Mobile, but there is still enough difference that I wish the repeater audio, on weak signals only, sounded as good as the Micor RX direct to the speaker. I am using Discriminator Audio on all the repeaters and have the controller set properly for that. The only way to explain a weak signal is the background seems to be pumped up. Any ideas I will look into on my next trip to Pa. 73 Jim KA2AJH Wellsville, NY __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Audio on VERY WEAK SIGNALS
Thanks Kevin. I have a list to include a 1/8 plug and clip leads. That will tell me as you suggested. I have got a lot of good ideas from the group. 73 Jim KA2AJH _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Custer Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 9:08 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Audio on VERY WEAK SIGNALS Put your MICOR speaker on the (mobile?) radio you are listening to, this will give you an apples to apples comparison. I use a MICOR speaker in my work truck, it's connected to a Kenwood 742, and yes, it makes a BIG difference. Kevin Custer Jim Cicirello wrote: Hi Guys, A question for the MICOR fans that may have experienced a similar dilemma I am having with one of our three Micor Repeaters. All three are Micor VHF Bases, converted to repeater duty using the information I obtained from this group. All three have Cat 200 Controllers and unless I have missed something all are wired the same. When a weak signal, like from a portable radio or a station far away comes in I have quite a bit of background (white noise). I have noticed that if I listen to the audio from the Micor Speaker, it appears to me that much of the white noise is gone and the signal is much more understandable. Now this audio test is being performed with the TX on, so I have determined that there is no noticeable desense. The first thing I did was check the input audio into the Cat200 and make sure the voltages were set to the book, which they were. I have also taken into consideration that the Micor Speaker may reproduce the audio better than the HT or Mobile, but there is still enough difference that I wish the repeater audio, on weak signals only, sounded as good as the Micor RX direct to the speaker. I am using Discriminator Audio on all the repeaters and have the controller set properly for that. The only way to explain a weak signal is the background seems to be pumped up. Any ideas I will look into on my next trip to Pa. 73 Jim KA2AJH Wellsville, NY
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Crystals Motorola etc
I just went (actually, AM GOING) through an order with ICM. Boy have they changed in the last 10 years. Orders take much longer than they used to. I went with ICM because this particular order I wanted to be flawless. I should have stuck with Bomar. Joe M. Jim Brown wrote: I use Bomar these days for crystals for the ham bands. I have had good luck installing them myself and re-adjusting them in a year or so back to the right frequency. I recently worked on a GE Delta radio that had been crystaled using CUMEX and found the receive crystal had drifted over 2 kHz in the several years it had been in service. It was so far off it would not adust back to the original frequency until I ran the adjustment slug on down through the coil form and added another slug on top of it. Now with two slugs in the coil, it wound up back on frequency. I don't know if it will continue to drift, or if it has settled down, but for now it is working just fine. I used Marden for crystals until I got into a beef with them on a receive frequency and gave up after sending an operating crystal back to them a couple of times and telling them what frequency it operated on, and them sending it back and telling me what frequency they thought it operated on. 73 - Jim W5ZIT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All Looking for information on who makes crystals for channel elements. Micor's and Mitrek Yes, I know that International makes them but the price is high. I have had good luck putting crystals in old channel elements and changing the caps as necessary to achieve reasonable stability. Used to use CUMEX in El Paso but they seem to be gone Ralph, W7HSG From: Kris Kirby [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Radio recommendations ?? Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 23:32:48 + On Fri, 2 Nov 2007, wb6ymh wrote: The 30 watt version is a better radio for repeater service since all solid state transmitters are very inefficient when run below their designed output. A 30 watt Mitrek running at 15 watts will probably last forever, but a 50 watt Mitrek running at 20 watts gets way too hot for my tastes. It would probably be ok with a fan, but I really didn't want a fan for numerous reasons. Well the radio is only specified to run a certain percentage in transmit anyway, but at this point, you can probably get a dump-truck load of Mitreks for the asking. That will give you enough radios to keep the repeater running until Doomsday. All you need is a few channel elements, and you can skip using lightning protection altogether. If a Mitrek falls in the forest, does it make a noise? -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR [EMAIL PROTECTED] But remember, with no superpowers comes no responsibility. --rly __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
[Repeater-Builder] WTB:Vertex ft-7011
Doies anybody have a 7011 99ch 35w mobile in good shape they want to sell? -- Jay Urish W5GM ARRL Life MemberDenton County ARRL VEC N5ERS VP/Trustee Monitoring 444.850 PL-88.5
