Re: [Repeater-Builder] DTMF Decoder
If you don't understand how pre-emphasis, de-emphasis, and twist happen, and why they happen, look at this explanatory article: http://www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/flataudio.html At 04:10 PM 03/24/08, you wrote: Vern, it sounds like you may have some other problems that might cause a hardware DTMF decoder to work no better than the one in the sound card. It has been my experience that the internal sound card decoder works better than the external variety because of the various tweaks you can use on the internal decoder. Look for excessive distortion in your audio signal, or improperly deemphasized audio for your problem. Perhaps you have some problem with your sound card, but that is not too likely. I did have a brand new Dell computer with the sound card so out of calibration that the tones in the bubble up of a repeater sounded distinctly lower in pitch when passed through to EchoLink. When we went to an external SignalLink USB sound card the problem went away. You can tweak the sound card decoder by changing the 'twist' or unbalance in level between the high tones and the low tones in a DTMF digit. One clue to this twist problem is that some TT digits will decode and some will not. Almost always this type problem can be compensated for by changing the twist settings in the sound card decoder. Look in the Sysop setup/DTMF/Advanced menu and try adjusting the twist up and down a few dB at a time. Does your EchoLink audio sound high pitched or 'tinney'? If so, you may be taking audio from a receiver that has not had the deemphasis compensation applied. Be sure to correct any audio issues before trying to get the internal DTMF decoder to work. Audio may be deemphasized by passing it through a series 15K resistor and placing a .22 cap across the output side of the resistor to ground. This audio may then be applied to the Mic input of the sound card. 73 - Jim W5ZIT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any one know if there is a good hardware DTMF decoder out there or plans for one that will work with Echolink? There are several of us who had working Echolink internal DTMF that no longer can get them to tune up right. We are tired of messing with it so we want to go external. All I have found on the internet are full echolink controllers with DTMF built in. I want just the DTMF decoder part. Thanks, Vern KI4ONW __ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJTry it now.
Re: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Using Alinco DR-605 Dual Band Mobiles for Repeater
About any Ham vintage rig made in last 15 years is not good for a repeater. On the receiver the clue is it has broad band receive. Some receivers have some tuning geared to the rcv freq, but very little. It is radically different than a rcvr with helical front end filter that has to be tuned if moving more couple MHz. The Ham repeaters are also a problem. The clue here is just connect a computer and set freq to one at DC to light range...well like for VHF, 134-174 MHz. The front ends must be designed to accept this and they do no matter what your op freq is. The other problem is the TX spurious emissions of only down 60 db. This noise then requires a 6 cavity duplexer or 100 db notch to make work well. Sure it works today, but what about next week when the weather changes. A good TX like a Micor or GE MII will have this at 80+ db range. Now a real good one like the Mot MSF5000 at 120 db. The type acceptance thing is another, but important issue. The type acceptance issue is why certain rigs are not allowed in certain places. This is one. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/03/24 Mon PM 09:55:03 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Using Alinco DR-605 Dual Band Mobiles for Repeater At 3/24/2008 06:57, you wrote: Front end is too broad Actually, the front-end of the DR-605 is one of the narrowest of the current-production radios (I know, the 605 is no longer current production but it's only been a couple of years). and not legal for GMRS.. Quite true, which makes the above a moot point w.r.t. repeater [EMAIL PROTECTED]@[] 9318:19:54 i 9491692 216.252.122.217 [EMAIL PROTECTED]@[] 918:19:54 d 9491691 [EMAIL PROTECTED] S 0 pr=groups-email-ff-m id=2275891-m1655918:19:54 d 9491691 [EMAIL PROTECTED] S 0 pr=groups-email-ff-m id=2275891-m1655918:19:54 d 9491691 [EMAIL PROTECTED] S 0 pr=groups-email-ff-m id=2275891-m1655918:19:54 d 9491691 Yuedragpan class=left Messages in this topic (20) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages|Files |Photos|Links|Members Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group| Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity 18 New Members 2 New Files Visit Your Group Share Photos Put your favorite photos and more online. Moderator Central Get answers to your questions about running Y! Groups. Women of Curves on Yahoo! Groups see how women are changing their lives.. Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Using Alinco DR-605 Dual Band Mobiles for Repeater
Yes, it can. Type acceptance is for the TX although there are some part 15 that about anything with an oscillator must meet. Most all electronic equip is Part 15 accept. It deals mostly with low level specs. It is the TX that is most looked at. I would say most all Radio Shack and others scanners are not type accepted, but do meet Part 15. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: lenaw12 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/03/24 Mon PM 07:40:11 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Using Alinco DR-605 Dual Band Mobiles for Repeater Can a Receiver be not Type Accepted for GMRS? LW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Ron _ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Front end is too broad and not legal for GMRS.. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 20:14:05 +Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Using Alinco DR-605 Dual Band Mobiles for Repeater I am wondering if anyone has experience with setting up two of theseradios to work as a GMRS Repeater? We are experimenting with the ideaof setting one up in our small town.Will I need a simple controller or interface of some type that may bereadily available?Any help in the correct direction would be appreciated!Thanks!Brian/WB2JIX __ Watch Cause Effect, a show about real people making a real difference. Learn more. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_watchcause Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] DTMF Decoder
Vern, I have not used a sound card for DTMF decoding, but the decoder on the Echolink card (I am assuming for the repeaters you are using one) I find DTMF decoder problems are almost always level related. Most decoders work over a reasonably wide range including twist (the difference between the high and low group tone levels). The ones in the phone company are usually tighter than most...they are very good. However, in radio systems one often does have the advantage of good flat audio. When you say some digits work and some do not this is usually a level problem and usually requires a separate adjustment from other audios. If the decoder is receiving say over 10% distortion the low group tones will get into the high group causing problems. It may be difficult to check the levels on a sound card...at least once it gets inside and then to the card audio. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/03/24 Mon PM 07:07:33 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] DTMF Decoder I have messed around with the settings in Echolink a good bit. The thing that is interesting is that 2 other repeaters that were working fine stopped working within the past few weeks. We believe it might have been some kind of windows update or something. Mine used to work OK but has not for some time. All of them will decode some tones. I had thought about going to an external sound card but thought that a decoder would be better. I just don't want to take the chance of getting another sound card and having it not work. Vern On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:10:54 -0700 (PDT) Jim Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vern, it sounds like you may have some other problems that might cause a hardware DTMF decoder to work no better than the one in the sound card. It has been my experience that the internal sound card decoder works better than the external variety because of the various tweaks you can use on the internal decoder. Look for excessive distortion in your audio signal, or improperly deemphasized audio for your problem. Perhaps you have some problem with your sound card, but that is not too likely. I did have a brand new Dell computer with the sound card so out of calibration that the tones in the bubble up of a repeater sounded distinctly lower in pitch when passed through to EchoLink. When we went to an external SignalLink USB sound card the problem went away. You can tweak the sound card decoder by changing the 'twist' or unbalance in level between the high tones and the low tones in a DTMF digit. One clue to this twist problem is that some TT digits will decode and some will not. Almost always this type problem can be compensated for by changing the twist settings in the sound card decoder. Look in the Sysop setup/DTMF/Advanced menu and try adjusting the twist up and down a few dB at a time. Does your EchoLink audio sound high pitched or 'tinney'? If so, you may be taking audio from a receiver that has not had the deemphasis compensation applied. Be sure to correct any audio issues before trying to get the internal DTMF decoder to work. Audio may be deemphasized by passing it through a series 15K resistor and placing a .22 cap across the output side of the resistor to ground. This audio may then be applied to the Mic input of the sound card. 73 - Jim W5ZIT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any one know if there is a good hardware DTMF decoder out there or plans for one that will work with Echolink? There are several of us who had working Echolink internal DTMF that no longer can get them to tune up right. We are tired of messing with it so we want to go external. All I have found on the internet are full echolink controllers with DTMF built in. I want just the DTMF decoder part. Thanks, Vern KI4ONW __ - Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Res: [Repeater-Builder] DTMF Decoder
http://www.hamtronix.com.br/ted_us.html http://www.hamtronix.com.br/ech_us.html Regards. Junior - Brazil. - Mensagem original De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Para: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Enviadas: Segunda-feira, 24 de Março de 2008 15:55:56 Assunto: [Repeater-Builder] DTMF Decoder Any one know if there is a good hardware DTMF decoder out there or plans for one that will work with Echolink? There are several of us who had working Echolink internal DTMF that no longer can get them to tune up right. We are tired of messing with it so we want to go external. All I have found on the internet are full echolink controllers with DTMF built in. I want just the DTMF decoder part. Thanks, Vern KI4ONW Abra sua conta no Yahoo! Mail, o único sem limite de espaço para armazenamento! http://br.mail.yahoo.com/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] RE: Sinclair Q202 duplexer harness info
Eric: Thank you for taking the time to do this. I will make the cable lengths 14 as measured center to center on the T connectors. I will use MIL spec 214. I found crimp rings at the RF connection. (Just in case you might need some one day) 73 Gregg _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 12:23 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] RE: Sinclair Q202 duplexer harness info Gregg, The Sinclair cable harness for the low-split Q202G duplexer should look like this: -[]-[]-[]-[]-[]- TX 1 2 ANT 3 4 RX The [] symbol is a tee connector. The distance between 1 and 2, 2 and ANT, ANT and 3, and 3 and 4 should be about 14 inches measured from the center of the back of each tee. The distance between TX and 1, and between 4 and RX, can be whatever length it takes to fit without any excess or splices. The 14 inch dimension is based upon using RG-214/U double-shielded coax. I got these dimensions by measuring a brand-new harness that a local club purchased from Sinclair. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gregg W6IZT Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:15 AM To: 'Gregg W6IZT'; Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] RE: Sinclair Q202 duplexer harness info -Original Message- From: Gregg W6IZT [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:w6izt%40bellsouth.net net mailto:w6izt%40bellsouth.net ] Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 2:06 PM To: 'Repeater-Builder@ mailto:%27Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com mailto:%27Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ' Subject: Sinclair Q202 duplexer harness info Our club has what we believe is a Sinclair Q202 duplexer. This variant has piston trimmers to adjust the notch frequency. The coax harness is beginning to fail (the braid is fraying at the crimp on a couple of the cables). I do not know what frequency this duplexer was originally tunes to. What I need is the proper length of the cables that make up the harness assembly for operation in the 2 meter band. If you know the physical dimensions please include the cable type and/or velocity factor Hopefully someone Thanks Gregg W6IZT
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wanted to buy - MICOR TPN1110B
There is one on e-bay now at: http://cgi.ebay.com/MOTOROLA-MICOR-REPEATER-117-VAC-POWER-SUPPLY_W0QQitemZ200209525287QQihZ010QQcategoryZ66977QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem The bid is at $44 w/0 bids with reasonable shipping. Buy now $111 which is little high although compared to an Astron it is worth it. I do like Astron supplies. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: w4dg.geo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/03/24 Mon PM 06:30:09 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Wanted to buy - MICOR TPN1110B Wanted to buy - MICOR TPN1110B 12v/25A rack mount PS. Please reply off list to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 73 Dennis - W4DG Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna question
There is a DB224 with internal harness. Not made for Ham band, but for 150-160, etc. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Larry Wagoner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/03/24 Mon PM 05:41:52 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna question At 05:37 PM 3/24/2008, you wrote: You may have something else. The SRL-224 has an external harness. Hmmm - this thing has a harness interior to the mast and which runs through the center of the arms which hold the bays. Ideas? Larry N5WLW Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 24 vdc to 12 vdc
Depending on the load connecting across one battery, the one connected to ground or the lower of the 2 12 batteries, will work. I would not do is load is heavy because I am sure the charging system is for both batteries and draining one much more than the other could upset things. Kirchhoff's current law says the sum of the currents will be zero. Kirchhoff's voltage law says sum of voltages will be zero. Not sure why revelant here, but I am sure Kirchhoff had something else to do with voltage and current sources. Would like to know. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Al Wolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/03/24 Mon PM 04:36:54 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 24 vdc to 12 vdc This is a very common issue in aircraft. The most obvious question is does your jeep use 2 each 12 volt batteries? If so, simply connect your radio across one of 'em. This is done all the time but is a very, very bad idea. Ever hear of Kirchhoff's law? Check it out. It's a very quick way to ruin two batteries. Get a real converter. The switching kind are much more efficient than the linear voltage dropping kind. Al, K9SI Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] DTMF Decoder
The RC-1000 uses a CM8880 which is a DTMF decoder/encoder. It requires a CPU type interface to allow reading and writing and must be set up for the proper mode. It is not difficult, but much more than what you need. The CM8870 is decoder only, easy to use and straight forward...4 data lines and strobe going high to indicate decode present. Not sure what you are wanting to do with the DTMF. For echolink there is interface to allow for node selection and some control. The Echolink board uses the 8870, but been a while since I looked at it. It does use the RS232 port for comm. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/03/24 Mon PM 04:26:07 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] DTMF Decoder Wouldn't I need some software to interface this with Echolink? Getting the data from the 4 lines to serial or parallel shouldn't be a big deal but reading it from the port and translating that to Echolink might be. What about being able to pick the DTMF up off of my RC1000 and getting that data into the PC is that possible? Vern On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 12:10:44 -0700 Ken Arck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 11:55 AM 3/24/2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any one know if there is a good hardware DTMF decoder out there or plans for one that will work with Echolink? There are several of us who had working Echolink internal DTMF that no longer can get them to tune up right. We are tired of messing with it so we want to go external. All I have found on the internet are full echolink controllers with DTMF built in. I want just the DTMF decoder part. http://products.zarlink.com/product_profiles/MT8870D.htm Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em! Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 24 vdc to 12 vdc
The practical effect is that the charge on the two batteries will be imbalanced, and should the charger ever get the more charge battery fully charged, the under charged battery will fool the charger into thinking the pair is not fully charged, resulting the in the fully charged battery being overcharged, and if not quickly damaged, then at least dramatically reduced in lifetime. Some sort of converter is required to keep the load balanced across both batteries, and therefore the charge on the batteries balanced.. whether it be Xantrex or Astron. either will do the job and protect your batteries. _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Wright Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 6:04 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 24 vdc to 12 vdc Depending on the load connecting across one battery, the one connected to ground or the lower of the 2 12 batteries, will work. I would not do is load is heavy because I am sure the charging system is for both batteries and draining one much more than the other could upset things. Kirchhoff's current law says the sum of the currents will be zero. Kirchhoff's voltage law says sum of voltages will be zero. Not sure why revelant here, but I am sure Kirchhoff had something else to do with voltage and current sources. Would like to know. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Al Wolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:k9si%40arrl.net Date: 2008/03/24 Mon PM 04:36:54 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 24 vdc to 12 vdc This is a very common issue in aircraft. The most obvious question is does your jeep use 2 each 12 volt batteries? If so, simply connect your radio across one of 'em. This is done all the time but is a very, very bad idea. Ever hear of Kirchhoff's law? Check it out. It's a very quick way to ruin two batteries. Get a real converter. The switching kind are much more efficient than the linear voltage dropping kind. Al, K9SI Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] DTMF Decoder
All we want to do is be able to do the node selection and control that would normally be done in the software portion of echolink. So from what you are saying here I can use the CM8870 feed audio in take the 4 data lines and the strobe and hook them up to a serial port and I should be able to get it to send data to echolink. I will take a look at that. Thanks, Vern On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:11:26 -0500 (CDT) Ron Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The RC-1000 uses a CM8880 which is a DTMF decoder/encoder. It requires a CPU type interface to allow reading and writing and must be set up for the proper mode. It is not difficult, but much more than what you need. The CM8870 is decoder only, easy to use and straight forward...4 data lines and strobe going high to indicate decode present. Not sure what you are wanting to do with the DTMF. For echolink there is interface to allow for node selection and some control. The Echolink board uses the 8870, but been a while since I looked at it. It does use the RS232 port for comm. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/03/24 Mon PM 04:26:07 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] DTMF Decoder Wouldn't I need some software to interface this with Echolink? Getting the data from the 4 lines to serial or parallel shouldn't be a big deal but reading it from the port and translating that to Echolink might be. What about being able to pick the DTMF up off of my RC1000 and getting that data into the PC is that possible? Vern On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 12:10:44 -0700 Ken Arck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 11:55 AM 3/24/2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any one know if there is a good hardware DTMF decoder out there or plans for one that will work with Echolink? There are several of us who had working Echolink internal DTMF that no longer can get them to tune up right. We are tired of messing with it so we want to go external. All I have found on the internet are full echolink controllers with DTMF built in. I want just the DTMF decoder part. http://products.zarlink.com/product_profiles/MT8870D.htm Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em! Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 24 vdc to 12 vdc
I have installed land mobile stuff in Gov Surplus fire equipment, (right next to Fort Hood) and 24 volt Forestry Service and 24 V street sweeping equipment over the years. I will NOT install any equipment across one battery in a 24 V string. Take it somewhere else and let them do it. I will not. Without exception, from a RaVo street sweeper to a 2.25 ton truck, the driver will forget and leave the equipment turned on that is across the one battery resulting in that one battery going dead. Now picture this. 2 batteries in a string. One dead, one hot and healthy. Just for sake of discussion. lets say the radio / siren, stuff is across the bottom battery. Neg to GND, Positive to the Radio / Siren stuff AND the Negative of the second battery. Positive of the second battery to the starter solenoid, etc. As long as both batteries are charged this works GREAT. When the bottom battery is dead, and the top battery is OK, and the driver hits the Cole Hersey Switch and tries to crank the engine it is just as though the first battery was no longer there. Remember that the Positive of the bottom battery (now dead) is connected to the Negative if the second battery, thru the starter motor and back to ground. This effectively does 2 things. 1 - reverse polarity is applied to the dead battery and whatever equipment is hooked to it. 2 - The cranking current will be in excess of 400 amps. The fuse in the Neg side of the radio most likely won't make any difference because the case of the radio is tied to the chassis of the vehicle - ground. The fuse in the positive side (if present) may save the radio, but most often, the audio PA and RF PA are history as well as any protection diodes - 10 amp protection diode against 400 amp starter current - no contest. So, spring for the Astron or NewMar or whatever DC-DC converter - I like the fully isolated if possible or else I would encourage anyone to stay away from the one battery connection. Forklifts are even worse. Remember it is just a matter of time before stuff gets smoked... Steve NU5D School of Hard Knocks... Ron Wright wrote: Depending on the load connecting across one battery, the one connected to ground or the lower of the 2 12 batteries, will work. I would not do is load is heavy because I am sure the charging system is for both batteries and draining one much more than the other could upset things.
Re: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Using Alinco DR-605 Dual Band Mobiles for Repeater
Paul Rob, The issue with having the rig capable of transmitting on GMRS can be a problem. Many Ham rigs can be legally opened for MARS, etc use and this will often open for many other frequencies. I would say if the rig were in a repeater then a problem. I would think just having the rig would not be an issue, but having it installed, but not used and especially wired would be a problem. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Paul Finch [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/03/24 Mon PM 03:43:19 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Using Alinco DR-605 Dual Band Mobiles for Repeater Rob, The Alinco equipment is NOT FCC type accepted for commercial service of any kind. Matter of fact it is very illegal to have them on those frequencies. Check out the Type Acceptance number on the radios and look it up in the FCC files, it will tell you what you can do with it, the DR-605 is a Ham radio only, I know I have one. The Standard RP-70 is probably Type Accepted by the FCC for commercial use but may or may not do the bandwidth required for GMRS which I think is 12.5 KHz, I may be wrong on that bandwidth though. Whatever, it is not legal to have Amateur equipment on GMRS, FRS or any other commercial frequencies. Paul From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Pease Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 12:38 PM To:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Using Alinco DR-605 Dual Band Mobiles for Repeater Why, there are some standard RP-70 U Uhf repeaters already on GMRS on Ebay for around $75, just need crystals or maybe you can find on on a freq that you can get licensed in your area. They are only 10 watts but with the right site or an amp they would work fine. I used one for years with no problems - Rob - KS4EC From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of briguy1q2w Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 4:14 PM To:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Using Alinco DR-605 Dual Band Mobiles for Repeater I am wondering if anyone has experience with setting up two of these radios to work as a GMRS Repeater? We are experimenting with the idea of setting one up in our small town. Will I need a simple controller or interface of some type that may be readily available? Any help in the correct direction would be appreciated! Thanks! Brian/WB2JIX REMEMBER - You can find it on ebaY Since 1974, the award-winning Alpert JFCS has helped families of all faiths throughout most of Palm Beach County, FL, via counseling, seniors services, residences for the disabled, mentoring children, support groups and a lot more. SOLUTIONS FOR LIVING (R)www.JFCSonline.com Please take note of our new website and E-Mail Addresses.Please update your contacts ASAP. NOTICE: This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain legally privileged and confidential information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or other use of this message or its attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by replying to this message and please delete it from your computer. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1340 - Release Date: 3/23/2008 6:50 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1340 - Release Date: 3/23/2008 6:50 PM REMEMBER - You can find it on ebaY Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] 24 vdc to 12vdc
Rick, Definitely do not use a resistor. Its drop depends on current draw and if the rig is a transceiver it will draw much more current on TX than RX changing the drop. You can use the lower battery, the one connected to ground. However, as some others suggested might be better to have a 24-to-12 V converter. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Rick Charlotte [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/03/24 Mon PM 02:21:31 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 24 vdc to 12vdc I hope some one on the group can help me out here I want to put a radio in a jeep the problem is the jeep runs 24 v and as you know radios run 12v Is there a device that will drop 24v down to 12 vdv ? I know I could use a droping resistor but I can see it making a lot of heat if I remember right the jeep uses 2 12 v batts can I just tape off one set for the radio ? I know this is not about repeaters , but just thought some one might have an idea .. Thanks Rick Of all the intelligent animals, Human is the species that is least likely to learn from its experience. That explains why so manny of us have more then one Border Collie ! == www.karolinabc.ca == Rick,Charlote Kids Our Border Collies Miss Daisy Duke Sir Red-A-Lot Miss Elly May Mr Boots Mr. Balue Our Border Collie Message Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] 24 vdc to 12vdc
Page 57 of the latest AES catalog... Astron H2412-12, 28VDC to 13.8 VDC @ 10A - $59.99. Or H2412-24, rated at 20A - $89.99. http://www.aesham.com/pdf/page56-61.pdf Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of kf0m Astron makes a unit that will convert 28V to 12VDC puts out about 10A. I have certified it for use on a biz jet aircraft. We put it through a complete battery of environmental and electrical tests and it faired very well. The only issue we had was the conducted RF emissions on the power leads were a little higher than desired. It didn't interfere with any of the aircraft navigation or communication radios when we did the aircraft EMI test. We were able to kill some of the RF by bridging some bypass caps across the power in and out pins and from the pins to the case ground. John Lock kf0m at arrl.net -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Rick Charlotte I hope some one on the group can help me out here I want to put a radio in a jeep the problem is the jeep runs 24 v and as you know radios run 12v Is there a device that will drop 24v down to 12 vdv ? I know I could use a droping resistor but I can see it making a lot of heat if I remember right the jeep uses 2 12 v batts can I just tape off one set for the radio ? I know this is not about repeaters , but just thought some one might have an idea .. Thanks Rick
[Repeater-Builder] 24 vdc to 12vdc
Some of the earlier equipment with 24 volt power and tube radios did use a big ballast resistor. It did put out some heat. There was not that much difference in current draw between send and receive, so you might have 14 volts on receive and drop to 11 or so on send - with solid state the currents are much different - get a dc to dc converter. Some fire apparatus also had a separate battery and charging system for a water pump. We have connected radio equipment to the pump electrical system but the conductor runs were kinda long and lots of opportunities to pick up noise in the power system. Steve NU5D I know I could use a droping resistor but I can see it making a lot of heat
RE: [Repeater-Builder] DTMF Decoder
A long time ago I used a voice/fax modem to decode DTMF on a PC, it was tricky trying to get it in the right mode but once I did the digits just came in the com port! Rob From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 5:26 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] DTMF Decoder Wouldn't I need some software to interface this with Echolink? Getting the data from the 4 lines to serial or parallel shouldn't be a big deal but reading it from the port and translating that to Echolink might be. What about being able to pick the DTMF up off of my RC1000 and getting that data into the PC is that possible? Vern On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 12:10:44 -0700 Ken Arck [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:ah6le%40ah6le.net wrote: At 11:55 AM 3/24/2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:mung%40highwayusa.com wrote: Any one know if there is a good hardware DTMF decoder out there or plans for one that will work with Echolink? There are several of us who had working Echolink internal DTMF that no longer can get them to tune up right. We are tired of messing with it so we want to go external. All I have found on the internet are full echolink controllers with DTMF built in. I want just the DTMF decoder part. http://products.zarlink.com/product_profiles/MT8870D.htm http://products.zarlink.com/product_profiles/MT8870D.htm Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em! Since 1974, the award-winning Alpert JFCS has helped families of all faiths throughout most of Palm Beach County, FL, via counseling, seniors services, residences for the disabled, mentoring children, support groups and a lot more. SOLUTIONS FOR LIVING www.JFCSonline.com Please take note of our new website and E-Mail Addresses. Please update your contacts ASAP. NOTICE: This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain legally privileged and confidential information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or other use of this message or its attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by replying to this message and please delete it from your computer.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] DTMF Decoder
I don't think you can connect directly to the serial port for it acts as a RS232 port with serial data. I think Echolink board read the DTMF data and converted to serial data to feed the computer. I really do not know how to connect the 8870 for Echolink use. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/03/25 Tue AM 07:18:30 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] DTMF Decoder All we want to do is be able to do the node selection and control that would normally be done in the software portion of echolink. So from what you are saying here I can use the CM8870 feed audio in take the 4 data lines and the strobe and hook them up to a serial port and I should be able to get it to send data to echolink. I will take a look at that. Thanks, Vern On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:11:26 -0500 (CDT) Ron Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The RC-1000 uses a CM8880 which is a DTMF decoder/encoder. It requires a CPU type interface to allow reading and writing and must be set up for the proper mode. It is not difficult, but much more than what you need. The CM8870 is decoder only, easy to use and straight forward...4 data lines and strobe going high to indicate decode present. Not sure what you are wanting to do with the DTMF. For echolink there is interface to allow for node selection and some control. The Echolink board uses the 8870, but been a while since I looked at it. It does use the RS232 port for comm. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/03/24 Mon PM 04:26:07 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] DTMF Decoder Wouldn't I need some software to interface this with Echolink? Getting the data from the 4 lines to serial or parallel shouldn't be a big deal but reading it from the port and translating that to Echolink might be. What about being able to pick the DTMF up off of my RC1000 and getting that data into the PC is that possible? Vern On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 12:10:44 -0700 Ken Arck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 11:55 AM 3/24/2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any one know if there is a good hardware DTMF decoder out there or plans for one that will work with Echolink? There are several of us who had working Echolink internal DTMF that no longer can get them to tune up right. We are tired of messing with it so we want to go external. All I have found on the internet are full echolink controllers with DTMF built in. I want just the DTMF decoder part. http://products.zarlink.com/product_profiles/MT8870D.htm Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em! Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome. Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna question
Maybe that's what he has, even though he said it wasn't a DB products. But he said antenna rod, not tubing. Was that particular model made with rod? Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Ron Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:57 AM Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna question There is a DB224 with internal harness. Not made for Ham band, but for 150-160, etc. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Larry Wagoner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/03/24 Mon PM 05:41:52 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna question At 05:37 PM 3/24/2008, you wrote: You may have something else. The SRL-224 has an external harness. Hmmm - this thing has a harness interior to the mast and which runs through the center of the arms which hold the bays. Ideas? Larry N5WLW Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Using Alinco DR-605 Dual Band Mobiles for Repeater
At 3/25/2008 03:53, you wrote: About any Ham vintage rig made in last 15 years is not good for a repeater. On the receiver the clue is it has broad band receive. Well, then a lot of recent vintage repeaters like the Vertex are not good for repeaters, even though that's what they're made for. Some receivers have some tuning geared to the rcv freq, but very little. It is radically different than a rcvr with helical front end filter that has to be tuned if moving more couple MHz. Narrow front ends are always good to have in RF-congested areas, but not all repeaters are deployed in such areas. In a rural setting, sensitivity is more important than selectivity. Bob NO6B
RE: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Using Alinco DR-605 Dual Band Mobiles for Repeater
Ron, Yes, he is wanting this as a GMRS repeater which I would think is very illegal. On the other hand, anything is legal in an emergency. Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Wright Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:26 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Using Alinco DR-605 Dual Band Mobiles for Repeater Paul Rob, The issue with having the rig capable of transmitting on GMRS can be a problem. Many Ham rigs can be legally opened for MARS, etc use and this will often open for many other frequencies. I would say if the rig were in a repeater then a problem. I would think just having the rig would not be an issue, but having it installed, but not used and especially wired would be a problem. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Paul Finch [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/03/24 Mon PM 03:43:19 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Using Alinco DR-605 Dual Band Mobiles for Repeater Rob, The Alinco equipment is NOT FCC type accepted for commercial service of any kind. Matter of fact it is very illegal to have them on those frequencies. Check out the Type Acceptance number on the radios and look it up in the FCC files, it will tell you what you can do with it, the DR-605 is a Ham radio only, I know I have one. The Standard RP-70 is probably Type Accepted by the FCC for commercial use but may or may not do the bandwidth required for GMRS which I think is 12.5 KHz, I may be wrong on that bandwidth though. Whatever, it is not legal to have Amateur equipment on GMRS, FRS or any other commercial frequencies. Paul From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Pease Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 12:38 PM To:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Using Alinco DR-605 Dual Band Mobiles for Repeater Why, there are some standard RP-70 U Uhf repeaters already on GMRS on Ebay for around $75, just need crystals or maybe you can find on on a freq that you can get licensed in your area. They are only 10 watts but with the right site or an amp they would work fine. I used one for years with no problems - Rob - KS4EC From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of briguy1q2w Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 4:14 PM To:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Using Alinco DR-605 Dual Band Mobiles for Repeater I am wondering if anyone has experience with setting up two of these radios to work as a GMRS Repeater? We are experimenting with the idea of setting one up in our small town. Will I need a simple controller or interface of some type that may be readily available? Any help in the correct direction would be appreciated! Thanks! Brian/WB2JIX REMEMBER - You can find it on ebaY Since 1974, the award-winning Alpert JFCS has helped families of all faiths throughout most of Palm Beach County, FL, via counseling, seniors services, residences for the disabled, mentoring children, support groups and a lot more. SOLUTIONS FOR LIVING (R)www.JFCSonline.com Please take note of our new website and E-Mail Addresses.Please update your contacts ASAP. --- - NOTICE: This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain legally privileged and confidential information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or other use of this message or its attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by replying to this message and please delete it from your computer. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1340 - Release Date: 3/23/2008 6:50 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1340 - Release Date: 3/23/2008 6:50 PM REMEMBER - You can find it on ebaY Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome. Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1341 - Release Date: 3/24/2008 3:03 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1341 - Release Date: 3/24/2008 3:03 PM Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional *
Re: [Repeater-Builder] DTMF Decoder
Here is something interesting. I downloaded a demo of a software DTMF decoder and have it decoding all tones through the repeater. There is nothing I seem to be able to do to Echolink to get more than about 1/2 of the tones. Vern
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DTMF Decoder
As someone had pointed out earlier, you also need a PIC or some other device to read the 5 parallel bits from the DTMF decoder, and decode/re-encode them into the serial stream. You can not hook an 8870 direct to a serial port. You are going to require the programmable PIC because you have to make the serial data arrive at the computer the way that EchoLink wants to see it. You can, however, hook an 8870 to a parallel port with a quad 2-input AND chip in between. This is how the IRLP boards do it. Then there may be a piece in the API that allows you to send the DTMF decoded from your own program that reads from the paralell port. Or if you can find one of the old old motorola DTMF decoder chips, you can hook it straight to the port like the IRLP version 1 boards used to do. Dave Cameron - VE7LTD IRLP System Designer --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All we want to do is be able to do the node selection and control that would normally be done in the software portion of echolink. So from what you are saying here I can use the CM8870 feed audio in take the 4 data lines and the strobe and hook them up to a serial port and I should be able to get it to send data to echolink. I will take a look at that. Thanks, Vern On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:11:26 -0500 (CDT) Ron Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The RC-1000 uses a CM8880 which is a DTMF decoder/encoder. It requires a CPU type interface to allow reading and writing and must be set up for the proper mode. It is not difficult, but much more than what you need. The CM8870 is decoder only, easy to use and straight forward...4 data lines and strobe going high to indicate decode present. Not sure what you are wanting to do with the DTMF. For echolink there is interface to allow for node selection and some control. The Echolink board uses the 8870, but been a while since I looked at it. It does use the RS232 port for comm. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/03/24 Mon PM 04:26:07 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] DTMF Decoder Wouldn't I need some software to interface this with Echolink? Getting the data from the 4 lines to serial or parallel shouldn't be a big deal but reading it from the port and translating that to Echolink might be. What about being able to pick the DTMF up off of my RC1000 and getting that data into the PC is that possible? Vern On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 12:10:44 -0700 Ken Arck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 11:55 AM 3/24/2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any one know if there is a good hardware DTMF decoder out there or plans for one that will work with Echolink? There are several of us who had working Echolink internal DTMF that no longer can get them to tune up right. We are tired of messing with it so we want to go external. All I have found on the internet are full echolink controllers with DTMF built in. I want just the DTMF decoder part. http://products.zarlink.com/product_profiles/MT8870D.htm Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em! Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 24 vdc to 12vdc
Speaking of odd ball power problems, I have a new in box Astron model 4812-20 converter. 32 to 56 volts input, 13.8 volts out @20 amps. Great for shipboard or railroad use... $40.00 shipped anywhere in USA lance N2HBA - Original Message - From: Dave VanHorn To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 11:55 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 24 vdc to 12vdc Someone else mentioned the Astron converter. You can also buy inverters (usually online) designed for 24V input, and use that to run a small gel cell charger, with an appropriately sized gel cell. Neither the charger or the battery need to be big, unless you need to transmit a lot. The charge refills the battery when you're listening, or when the radio is off. Resistors are a bad idea, and tapping power from one battery is another bad idea, not just because of the damage to the high side battery, but the transients in a 24V system are double that in a 12V system, and your 12V radio has likely not been designed to live in that environment. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1340 - Release Date: 3/23/2008 6:50 PM
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 24 vdc to 12vdc
Along this same line, I still have a couple of Motorola 12v to 6v power converters. They were of the synchronous vibrator design, with no rectifiers. The primary vibrator contacts closed in synchronous fashion with the secondary contacts on the lower voltage winding giving you 6 volts output with some hash which is filtered out. Talk about dinosaurs - I don't know what they would do with 24 volts on the primary instead of the 12 volts they were designed for, but bet the vibrator would not last long - HI 73 - Jim W5ZIT Captainlance [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Speaking of odd ball power problems, I have a new in box Astron model 4812-20 converter. 32 to 56 volts input, 13.8 volts out @20 amps. Great for shipboard or railroad use... $40.00 shipped anywhere in USA lance N2HBA - Original Message - From:Dave VanHorn To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 11:55PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 24 vdc to12vdc Someone else mentioned the Astron converter. You can alsobuy inverters (usually online) designed for 24V input, and use that to runa small gel cell charger, with an appropriately sized gel cell. Neither thecharger or the battery need to be big, unless you need to transmit a lot.The charge refills the battery when you're listening, or when the radiois off. Resistors are a bad idea, and tapping power from one batteryis another bad idea, not just because of the damage to the highside battery, but the transients in a 24V system are double that in a12V system, and your 12V radio has likely not been designed to livein thatenvironment. - No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1340 - Release Date: 3/23/2008 6:50 PM - Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 24 vdc to 12 vdc
At 05:22 3/25/2008, Steve S. Bosshard (NU5D) wrote: any protection diodes - 10 amp protection diode against 400 amp starter current - no contest. Steve, this confuses the dickens out of me. I now understand the reverse polarity part, but won't the protection diode be reverse direction, and therefore the only relevant stat is the reverse voltage, 12v, and therefore presumably within ratings? I don't see what the current has to do with it because the diode will be non-conducting. The current rating is only for the conducting direction, right? -- Dave Gomberg, San Francisco NE5EE gomberg1 at wcf dot com All addresses, phones, etc. at http://www.wcf.com/ham/info.html -
RE: [Repeater-Builder] 24 vdc to 12vdc
Hello Group, I will say right now, a resistor is a bad idea but it can work of done correctly and the load is a constant. Back before I knew better I did just that. I needed 12 VDC for the filament of a GE Mastr Pro UHF transmitter, I can't remember the current right now, it's been 20 years. I built a DC supply and built a regulator with a 2N3055 NPN pass transistor, it worked OK but the transistor was dropping way to much voltage creating a lot of heat. I installed a high wattage series resistor that was heat sinked to a big aluminum plate before the 2N3055 and with a big Moose of a capacitor on the input of the 3055 to keep down noise. The resistor dropped the input voltage about 10 volts and the transistor ran cool. All of this was before any DC to DC converters were popular or available to the average Joe Ham. The system ran like that with no problem for years, I shut the repeater down and left it on the building, it was not worth the effort to bring it down from the penthouse. As far as I know it's still up there could possibly be fired back up on 444.850 if needed. My friend that got me that site retired so I faded away. The Converters are by far the best but if the load is fairly constant and if all you have to work with is a series resistor and a regulator it can work. Also, you don't have to buy these from Astron, you can buy small bricks that do this same thing and all you have to do is add some capacitance to the output unless they have variable outputs. Don't know what Astron gets on their units but I have several 48 to 5, 12 and 24 volts units in service now like the ones below. Here are a few, I have used the Powerstream and Murata products in the past. http://www.vicr.com/ http://www.v-infinity.com/ http://www.powerstream.com/dcdc.htm http://www.murata-ps.com/mps-home.html Again, don't get me wrong, THE DC to DC CONVERTER IS BEST! Just trying to avoid flames. Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Wright Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:34 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] 24 vdc to 12vdc Rick, Definitely do not use a resistor. Its drop depends on current draw and if the rig is a transceiver it will draw much more current on TX than RX changing the drop. You can use the lower battery, the one connected to ground. However, as some others suggested might be better to have a 24-to-12 V converter. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Rick Charlotte [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/03/24 Mon PM 02:21:31 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 24 vdc to 12vdc I hope some one on the group can help me out here I want to put a radio in a jeep the problem is the jeep runs 24 v and as you know radios run 12v Is there a device that will drop 24v down to 12 vdv ? I know I could use a droping resistor but I can see it making a lot of heat if I remember right the jeep uses 2 12 v batts can I just tape off one set for the radio ? I know this is not about repeaters , but just thought some one might have an idea .. Thanks Rick Of all the intelligent animals, Human is the species that is least likely to learn from its experience. That explains why so manny of us have more then one Border Collie ! == www.karolinabc.ca == Rick,Charlote Kids Our Border Collies Miss Daisy Duke Sir Red-A-Lot Miss Elly May Mr Boots Mr. Balue Our Border Collie Message Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome. Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1341 - Release Date: 3/24/2008 3:03 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1341 - Release Date: 3/24/2008 3:03 PM Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] 24 vdc to 12vdc
Hello Group, I will say right now, a resistor is a bad idea but it can work of done correctly and the load is a constant. Back before I knew better I did just that. I needed 12 VDC for the filament of a GE Mastr Pro UHF transmitter, I can't remember the current right now, it's been 20 years. I built a DC supply and built a regulator with a 2N3055 NPN pass transistor, it worked OK but the transistor was dropping way to much voltage creating a lot of heat. I installed a high wattage series resistor that was heat sinked to a big aluminum plate before the 2N3055 and with a big Moose of a capacitor on the input of the 3055 to keep down noise. The resistor dropped the input voltage about 10 volts and the transistor ran cool. All of this was before any DC to DC converters were popular or available to the average Joe Ham. The system ran like that with no problem for years, I shut the repeater down and left it on the building, it was not worth the effort to bring it down from the penthouse. As far as I know it's still up there could possibly be fired back up on 444.850 if needed. My friend that got me that site retired so I faded away. The Converters are by far the best but if the load is fairly constant and if all you have to work with is a series resistor and a regulator it can work. Also, you don't have to buy these from Astron, you can buy small bricks that do this same thing and all you have to do is add some capacitance to the output unless they have variable outputs. Don't know what Astron gets on their units but I have several 48 to 5, 12 and 24 volts units in service now like the ones below. Here are a few, I have used the Powerstream and Murata products in the past. http://www.vicr.com/ http://www.v-infinity.com/ http://www.powerstream.com/dcdc.htm http://www.murata-ps.com/mps-home.html Again, don't get me wrong, THE DC to DC CONVERTER IS BEST! Just trying to avoid flames. Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Wright Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:34 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] 24 vdc to 12vdc Rick, Definitely do not use a resistor. Its drop depends on current draw and if the rig is a transceiver it will draw much more current on TX than RX changing the drop. You can use the lower battery, the one connected to ground. However, as some others suggested might be better to have a 24-to-12 V converter. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Rick Charlotte [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/03/24 Mon PM 02:21:31 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 24 vdc to 12vdc I hope some one on the group can help me out here I want to put a radio in a jeep the problem is the jeep runs 24 v and as you know radios run 12v Is there a device that will drop 24v down to 12 vdv ? I know I could use a droping resistor but I can see it making a lot of heat if I remember right the jeep uses 2 12 v batts can I just tape off one set for the radio ? I know this is not about repeaters , but just thought some one might have an idea .. Thanks Rick Of all the intelligent animals, Human is the species that is least likely to learn from its experience. That explains why so manny of us have more then one Border Collie ! == www.karolinabc.ca == Rick,Charlote Kids Our Border Collies Miss Daisy Duke Sir Red-A-Lot Miss Elly May Mr Boots Mr. Balue Our Border Collie Message Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome. Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1341 - Release Date: 3/24/2008 3:03 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1341 - Release Date: 3/24/2008 3:03 PM Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] 24 vdc to 12vdc
Hello Group, I will say right now, a resistor is a bad idea but it can work of done correctly and the load is a constant. Back before I knew better I did just that. I needed 12 VDC for the filament of a GE Mastr Pro UHF transmitter, I can't remember the current right now, it's been 20 years. I built a DC supply and built a regulator with a 2N3055 NPN pass transistor, it worked OK but the transistor was dropping way to much voltage creating a lot of heat. I installed a high wattage series resistor that was heat sinked to a big aluminum plate before the 2N3055 and with a big Moose of a capacitor on the input of the 3055 to keep down noise. The resistor dropped the input voltage about 10 volts and the transistor ran cool. All of this was before any DC to DC converters were popular or available to the average Joe Ham. The system ran like that with no problem for years, I shut the repeater down and left it on the building, it was not worth the effort to bring it down from the penthouse. As far as I know it's still up there could possibly be fired back up on 444.850 if needed. My friend that got me that site retired so I faded away. The Converters are by far the best but if the load is fairly constant and if all you have to work with is a series resistor and a regulator it can work. Also, you don't have to buy these from Astron, you can buy small bricks that do this same thing and all you have to do is add some capacitance to the output unless they have variable outputs. Don't know what Astron gets on their units but I have several 48 to 5, 12 and 24 volts units in service now like the ones below. Here are a few, I have used the Powerstream and Murata products in the past. http://www.vicr.com/ http://www.v-infinity.com/ http://www.powerstream.com/dcdc.htm http://www.murata-ps.com/mps-home.html Again, don't get me wrong, THE DC to DC CONVERTER IS BEST! Just trying to avoid flames. Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Wright Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:34 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] 24 vdc to 12vdc Rick, Definitely do not use a resistor. Its drop depends on current draw and if the rig is a transceiver it will draw much more current on TX than RX changing the drop. You can use the lower battery, the one connected to ground. However, as some others suggested might be better to have a 24-to-12 V converter. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Rick Charlotte [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/03/24 Mon PM 02:21:31 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 24 vdc to 12vdc I hope some one on the group can help me out here I want to put a radio in a jeep the problem is the jeep runs 24 v and as you know radios run 12v Is there a device that will drop 24v down to 12 vdv ? I know I could use a droping resistor but I can see it making a lot of heat if I remember right the jeep uses 2 12 v batts can I just tape off one set for the radio ? I know this is not about repeaters , but just thought some one might have an idea .. Thanks Rick Of all the intelligent animals, Human is the species that is least likely to learn from its experience. That explains why so manny of us have more then one Border Collie ! == www.karolinabc.ca == Rick,Charlote Kids Our Border Collies Miss Daisy Duke Sir Red-A-Lot Miss Elly May Mr Boots Mr. Balue Our Border Collie Message Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome. Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1341 - Release Date: 3/24/2008 3:03 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1341 - Release Date: 3/24/2008 3:03 PM Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] 24 vdc to 12vdc
Did everyone get this email three time like I did? I only sent it once. Sorry bout that Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Finch Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 11:05 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] 24 vdc to 12vdc Hello Group, I will say right now, a resistor is a bad idea but it can work of done correctly and the load is a constant. Back before I knew better I did just that. I needed 12 VDC for the filament of a GE Mastr Pro UHF transmitter, I can't remember the current right now, it's been 20 years. I built a DC supply and built a regulator with a 2N3055 NPN pass transistor, it worked OK but the transistor was dropping way to much voltage creating a lot of heat. I installed a high wattage series resistor that was heat sinked to a big aluminum plate before the 2N3055 and with a big Moose of a capacitor on the input of the 3055 to keep down noise. The resistor dropped the input voltage about 10 volts and the transistor ran cool. All of this was before any DC to DC converters were popular or available to the average Joe Ham. The system ran like that with no problem for years, I shut the repeater down and left it on the building, it was not worth the effort to bring it down from the penthouse. As far as I know it's still up there could possibly be fired back up on 444.850 if needed. My friend that got me that site retired so I faded away. The Converters are by far the best but if the load is fairly constant and if all you have to work with is a series resistor and a regulator it can work. Also, you don't have to buy these from Astron, you can buy small bricks that do this same thing and all you have to do is add some capacitance to the output unless they have variable outputs. Don't know what Astron gets on their units but I have several 48 to 5, 12 and 24 volts units in service now like the ones below. Here are a few, I have used the Powerstream and Murata products in the past. http://www.vicr.com/ http://www.v-infinity.com/ http://www.powerstream.com/dcdc.htm http://www.murata-ps.com/mps-home.html Again, don't get me wrong, THE DC to DC CONVERTER IS BEST! Just trying to avoid flames. Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Wright Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:34 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] 24 vdc to 12vdc Rick, Definitely do not use a resistor. Its drop depends on current draw and if the rig is a transceiver it will draw much more current on TX than RX changing the drop. You can use the lower battery, the one connected to ground. However, as some others suggested might be better to have a 24-to-12 V converter. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Rick Charlotte [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/03/24 Mon PM 02:21:31 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 24 vdc to 12vdc I hope some one on the group can help me out here I want to put a radio in a jeep the problem is the jeep runs 24 v and as you know radios run 12v Is there a device that will drop 24v down to 12 vdv ? I know I could use a droping resistor but I can see it making a lot of heat if I remember right the jeep uses 2 12 v batts can I just tape off one set for the radio ? I know this is not about repeaters , but just thought some one might have an idea .. Thanks Rick Of all the intelligent animals, Human is the species that is least likely to learn from its experience. That explains why so manny of us have more then one Border Collie ! == www.karolinabc.ca == Rick,Charlote Kids Our Border Collies Miss Daisy Duke Sir Red-A-Lot Miss Elly May Mr Boots Mr. Balue Our Border Collie Message Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome. Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1341 - Release Date: 3/24/2008 3:03 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1341 - Release Date: 3/24/2008 3:03 PM Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1341 - Release Date: 3/24/2008 3:03 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1341 - Release Date: 3/24/2008 3:03 PM Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to:
Re: [Repeater-Builder] 24 vdc to 12vdc
Three here. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Paul Finch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 12:17 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] 24 vdc to 12vdc Did everyone get this email three time like I did? I only sent it once. Sorry bout that Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Finch Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 11:05 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] 24 vdc to 12vdc Hello Group, I will say right now, a resistor is a bad idea but it can work of done correctly and the load is a constant. Back before I knew better I did just that. I needed 12 VDC for the filament of a GE Mastr Pro UHF transmitter, I can't remember the current right now, it's been 20 years. I built a DC supply and built a regulator with a 2N3055 NPN pass transistor, it worked OK but the transistor was dropping way to much voltage creating a lot of heat. I installed a high wattage series resistor that was heat sinked to a big aluminum plate before the 2N3055 and with a big Moose of a capacitor on the input of the 3055 to keep down noise. The resistor dropped the input voltage about 10 volts and the transistor ran cool. All of this was before any DC to DC converters were popular or available to the average Joe Ham. The system ran like that with no problem for years, I shut the repeater down and left it on the building, it was not worth the effort to bring it down from the penthouse. As far as I know it's still up there could possibly be fired back up on 444.850 if needed. My friend that got me that site retired so I faded away. The Converters are by far the best but if the load is fairly constant and if all you have to work with is a series resistor and a regulator it can work. Also, you don't have to buy these from Astron, you can buy small bricks that do this same thing and all you have to do is add some capacitance to the output unless they have variable outputs. Don't know what Astron gets on their units but I have several 48 to 5, 12 and 24 volts units in service now like the ones below. Here are a few, I have used the Powerstream and Murata products in the past. http://www.vicr.com/ http://www.v-infinity.com/ http://www.powerstream.com/dcdc.htm http://www.murata-ps.com/mps-home.html Again, don't get me wrong, THE DC to DC CONVERTER IS BEST! Just trying to avoid flames. Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Wright Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:34 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] 24 vdc to 12vdc Rick, Definitely do not use a resistor. Its drop depends on current draw and if the rig is a transceiver it will draw much more current on TX than RX changing the drop. You can use the lower battery, the one connected to ground. However, as some others suggested might be better to have a 24-to-12 V converter. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Rick Charlotte [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/03/24 Mon PM 02:21:31 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 24 vdc to 12vdc I hope some one on the group can help me out here I want to put a radio in a jeep the problem is the jeep runs 24 v and as you know radios run 12v Is there a device that will drop 24v down to 12 vdv ? I know I could use a droping resistor but I can see it making a lot of heat if I remember right the jeep uses 2 12 v batts can I just tape off one set for the radio ? I know this is not about repeaters , but just thought some one might have an idea .. Thanks Rick Of all the intelligent animals, Human is the species that is least likely to learn from its experience. That explains why so manny of us have more then one Border Collie ! == www.karolinabc.ca == Rick,Charlote Kids Our Border Collies Miss Daisy Duke Sir Red-A-Lot Miss Elly May Mr Boots Mr. Balue Our Border Collie Message Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome. Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1341 - Release Date: 3/24/2008 3:03 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1341 - Release Date: 3/24/2008 3:03 PM Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1341 - Release Date: 3/24/2008 3:03 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1341 - Release Date: 3/24/2008 3:03 PM
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 24 vdc to 12 vdc
This assumes that the installer did not fuse the + lead to the radio. Normally a 25 to 35 watt radio has a 15 amp fuse but you might be surprised how many times the power cable has been cut and no fuse. Anyhow, without a fuse, the reverse protection diode or transorb in the radio tries to short and shunt the reverse current from the radio. Most of these can handle about 20 amps for a few seconds before the smoke gets out. Then the reverse protection diode is essentially gone and next in line us usually the audio power amp, and RF PA. While the radio tries to act like a short (for a few brief moments during cranking with the first battery dead the starter will draw hundreds of amps (or try to) thru the radio and protection diode. This doesn't continue very long at all. If the radio is properly fused, then the diode may short and blow the fuse, but without a fuse, the radio gets blown. Steve Dave Gomberg wrote: At 05:22 3/25/2008, Steve S. Bosshard (NU5D) wrote: any protection diodes - 10 amp protection diode against 400 amp starter current - no contest. Steve, this confuses the dickens out of me. I now understand the reverse polarity part, but won't the protection diode be reverse direction, and therefore the only relevant stat is the reverse voltage, 12v, and therefore presumably within ratings? I don't see what the current has to do with it because the diode will be non-conducting. The current rating is only for the conducting direction, right? (with one battery dead, the other battery will cause reverse current thru the first battery during cranking and at that time the protection diode will be briefly conducting). -- /Subscribe to dstar_digital/ Powered by groups.yahoo.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dstar_digital/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] 24 vdc to 12vdc
The Xantrex converters I mentioned will take any input from 14v to 80v and deliver 40 amps out.. the output is actually a full blown 3 stage battery charger... so you really need to have a gel cell on the output, which will double as filtering.. and should work just fine under any load conditions, as one of the unit configurations is as a load diverter.. to direct current to an alternative load when the battery bank is fully charged (for instance, go a bank of grid-tie inverters) -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Finch Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 10:05 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] 24 vdc to 12vdc Hello Group, I will say right now, a resistor is a bad idea but it can work of done correctly and the load is a constant. Back before I knew better I did just that. I needed 12 VDC for the filament of a GE Mastr Pro UHF transmitter, I can't remember the current right now, it's been 20 years. I built a DC supply and built a regulator with a 2N3055 NPN pass transistor, it worked OK but the transistor was dropping way to much voltage creating a lot of heat. I installed a high wattage series resistor that was heat sinked to a big aluminum plate before the 2N3055 and with a big Moose of a capacitor on the input of the 3055 to keep down noise. The resistor dropped the input voltage about 10 volts and the transistor ran cool. All of this was before any DC to DC converters were popular or available to the average Joe Ham. The system ran like that with no problem for years, I shut the repeater down and left it on the building, it was not worth the effort to bring it down from the penthouse. As far as I know it's still up there could possibly be fired back up on 444.850 if needed. My friend that got me that site retired so I faded away. The Converters are by far the best but if the load is fairly constant and if all you have to work with is a series resistor and a regulator it can work. Also, you don't have to buy these from Astron, you can buy small bricks that do this same thing and all you have to do is add some capacitance to the output unless they have variable outputs. Don't know what Astron gets on their units but I have several 48 to 5, 12 and 24 volts units in service now like the ones below. Here are a few, I have used the Powerstream and Murata products in the past. http://www.vicr.com/ http://www.v-infinity.com/ http://www.powerstream.com/dcdc.htm http://www.murata-ps.com/mps-home.html Again, don't get me wrong, THE DC to DC CONVERTER IS BEST! Just trying to avoid flames. Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Wright Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:34 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] 24 vdc to 12vdc Rick, Definitely do not use a resistor. Its drop depends on current draw and if the rig is a transceiver it will draw much more current on TX than RX changing the drop. You can use the lower battery, the one connected to ground. However, as some others suggested might be better to have a 24-to-12 V converter. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Rick Charlotte [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/03/24 Mon PM 02:21:31 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 24 vdc to 12vdc I hope some one on the group can help me out here I want to put a radio in a jeep the problem is the jeep runs 24 v and as you know radios run 12v Is there a device that will drop 24v down to 12 vdv ? I know I could use a droping resistor but I can see it making a lot of heat if I remember right the jeep uses 2 12 v batts can I just tape off one set for the radio ? I know this is not about repeaters , but just thought some one might have an idea .. Thanks Rick Of all the intelligent animals, Human is the species that is least likely to learn from its experience. That explains why so manny of us have more then one Border Collie ! == www.karolinabc.ca == Rick,Charlote Kids Our Border Collies Miss Daisy Duke Sir Red-A-Lot Miss Elly May Mr Boots Mr. Balue Our Border Collie Message Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome. Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1341 - Release Date: 3/24/2008 3:03 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1341 - Release Date: 3/24/2008 3:03 PM Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1341 - Release Date: 3/24/2008 3:03 PM
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna question
At 10:07 AM 3/25/2008, you wrote: Maybe that's what he has, even though he said it wasn't a DB products. But he said antenna rod, not tubing. Was that particular model made with rod? Chuck - have been told by someone else that it is a Sinclair. I can find no tag or ID on it that tells me that - so I am looking for information. I hope to grab a digital pix of the thing - or at least one of the bays - to help people figure out what it is. Thing is - on the MFJ 259 - it seems to be resonant at 147.1 Thanks. Larry N5WLW
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] DTMF Decoder
At 04:44 AM 03/25/08, you wrote: Vern, I have not used a sound card for DTMF decoding, but the decoder on the Echolink card (I am assuming for the repeaters you are using one) I find DTMF decoder problems are almost always level related. Not always Most decoders work over a reasonably wide range including twist (the difference between the high and low group tone levels). The ones in the phone company are usually tighter than most...they are very good. But they are designed to work in systems where the low frequency group tones and the high frequency group tones are close to the same level. There is a chart of the DTMF tones on the web page I referred to above. However, in radio systems one often does have the advantage of good flat audio. That's the zinger. It's not. Background info: Each touchtone digit is made up of a high frequency group tone and a low frequency group tone, as explained on http://www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/flataudio.html What many folks, especially newbies, don't understand is that the user's transmitter pre-emphasizes the audio (including all DTMF) at a rate of 6 dB per octave. In laymen's terms, the higher frequencies are transmitted at a higher deviation than the lower frequencies. If you were to listen to raw FM audio (that has been pre-emphasized), for example with a service monitor, it would sound very tinny. If you were to inject 1,000 Hz tone into the microphone jack at a level to get 1khz deviation and then change to 2,000 Hz the deviation would go up 6 dB. On the receiving end, the user's radio de-emphasizes the audio that was pre- emphasized by the repeater transmitter, returning it to normal audio on par with what went into the originating station's microphone jack. This has caught many folks over the years. Many how-to writeups over the years have commented that you want to tap into a receiver audio chain to get ahead of the volume control with the purpose of getting a constant level audio to feed, for example, a tape recorder or a repeater controller. If you are not intimately familiar with the recveiver you can tap the wrong point (and sometimes there is no right point). Many receiver designs have the volume control ahead of the squelch mute and the de-emphasis. As a result the audio fed to the decoder is NOT de-emphasized normal audio and won't decode properly. And it won't be until it is run through a de-emph network. Here's what I suspect you have. I'll bet that you have the DTMF decoder fed with twisted audio and of the wrong level.. When you say some digits work and some do not this is usually a level problem and usually requires a separate adjustment from other audios. The first thing to check is the pickoff point - is it truly de-emphasized? If the audio going into the decoder is pre-emphasized, then the high frequency group will be much louder, causing false or no decoding. This can be checked by sending the high tone separately (pressing A and D simultaneously (on a 16-button pad, or 3 and # if a 12-button is all you have) and using an AC voltmeter on the DTMF decoder input, then sending only the low tone (1 and 3 simultaneously) and measuring that audio level. They should be very close. If not, that's your problem. And the audio may be messed up somewhere in the middle. I've seen a situation where the receiver was de-emphasizing properly, but further upstream was a link transmitter with a off-value capacitor and it was over-pre-emphasizing (more than 6db). Any time you have folks messing with random capacitor and resistor values to make the audio sound right then things are suspect. You have to measure, and calculate, not guess. By the way, there are audio spectrum analyzer programs that let you see the sound card audio. If you have one you can view the twist, which is most visible on the A set of DTMF tones. If the decoder is receiving say over 10% distortion the low group tones will get into the high group causing problems. As is covered on that web page, and it happens on a lot less than 10% distortion. I quote: The tone frequencies used in DTMF were well thought out, but not far enough. Any distortion between the source and the decoder will result in intermodulation products being generated and the result will cause unreliable decoding. For example, use the classic 2A-B intermodulation calculation: The DTMF star button is 941 and 1209 Hertz. Twice 1209 = 2418, minus 941 = 1477. The DTMF pound button is 941 and 1477. So any distortion in a transmission path can result in a star being decoded as a pound. This is one example why system designers have to keep transmission paths linear and distortion free. Otherwise the system builders will blame the repeater controller manufacturer. And when the controller goes back to the manufacturer for repair he finds nothing wrong. Becasue there isn't anything wrong. It may be difficult to check the levels on a sound card...at least once it gets
[Repeater-Builder] WANTED: Com-spec TS-64 encoder/decoder
Anyone have a Com-spec TS-64 encoder-decoder module? I'm looking for a couple for a on-going project. Contact off-list with price [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] . TNX 73 Dennis - W4DG
Re: [Repeater-Builder] WANTED: Com-spec TS-64 encoder/decoder
Com-spec has all kinds of them. They will be happy to sell them to you just like they sold one to me. On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:21:12 - w4dg.geo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone have a Com-spec TS-64 encoder-decoder module? I'm looking for a couple for a on-going project. Contact off-list with price [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] . TNX 73 Dennis - W4DG
[Repeater-Builder] Antenna: what if???
I got 5 db-224a antennas.. What if I: combined 2 of them on one mast with a co-phase harness to make a vhf version of the db-408? Combined 3 bottom harnesses and one top half harness to make my own version of the db-228? Combined the above mentioned harnesses and folded dipoles to make a vhf version of the db-420? Has anyone experimented with these antennas this way? Thanks es 73! N5NPO
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] WANTED: Com-spec TS-64 encoder/decoder
Get the TS64DS which has the dip switch. Cost couple $ more, but worth it. AES also carries them. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/03/25 Tue PM 04:16:06 CST To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] WANTED: Com-spec TS-64 encoder/decoder Com-spec has all kinds of them. They will be happy to sell them to you just like they sold one to me. On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:21:12 - w4dg.geo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone have a Com-spec TS-64 encoder-decoder module? I'm looking for a couple for a on-going project. Contact off-list with price [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] . TNX 73 Dennis - W4DG Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] DTMF Decoder
A 8870 and other DTMF decoders will work over a 10 db range of twist. The levels can be wide apart for the 2 tones are seperated and squared for a period averaging circuit. As for problems being ALMOST level related means not always. The posting should have said does not have flat audio, sorry. In most cases one does not. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Mike Morris WA6ILQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/03/25 Tue PM 02:52:58 CST To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] DTMF Decoder At 04:44 AM 03/25/08, you wrote: Vern, I have not used a sound card for DTMF decoding, but the decoder on the Echolink card (I am assuming for the repeaters you are using one) I find DTMF decoder problems are almost always level related. Not always Most decoders work over a reasonably wide range including twist (the difference between the high and low group tone levels). The ones in the phone company are usually tighter than most...they are very good. But they are designed to work in systems where the low frequency group tones and the high frequency group tones are close to the same level. There is a chart of the DTMF tones on the web page I referred to above. However, in radio systems one often does have the advantage of good flat audio. That's the zinger. It's not. Background info: Each touchtone digit is made up of a high frequency group tone and a low frequency group tone, as explained on http://www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/flataudio.html What many folks, especially newbies, don't understand is that the user's transmitter pre-emphasizes the audio (including all DTMF) at a rate of 6 dB per octave. In laymen's terms, the higher frequencies are transmitted at a higher deviation than the lower frequencies. If you were to listen to raw FM audio (that has been pre-emphasized), for example with a service monitor, it would sound very tinny. If you were to inject 1,000 Hz tone into the microphone jack at a level to get 1khz deviation and then change to 2,000 Hz the deviation would go up 6 dB. On the receiving end, the user's radio de-emphasizes the audio that was pre- emphasized by the repeater transmitter, returning it to normal audio on par with what went into the originating station's microphone jack. This has caught many folks over the years. Many how-to writeups over the years have commented that you want to tap into a receiver audio chain to get ahead of the volume control with the purpose of getting a constant level audio to feed, for example, a tape recorder or a repeater controller. If you are not intimately familiar with the recveiver you can tap the wrong point (and sometimes there is no right point). Many receiver designs have the volume control ahead of the squelch mute and the de-emphasis. As a result the audio fed to the decoder is NOT de-emphasized normal audio and won't decode properly. And it won't be until it is run through a de-emph network. Here's what I suspect you have. I'll bet that you have the DTMF decoder fed with twisted audio and of the wrong level.. When you say some digits work and some do not this is usually a level problem and usually requires a separate adjustment from other audios. The first thing to check is the pickoff point - is it truly de-emphasized? If the audio going into the decoder is pre-emphasized, then the high frequency group will be much louder, causing false or no decoding. This can be checked by sending the high tone separately (pressing A and D simultaneously (on a 16-button pad, or 3 and # if a 12-button is all you have) and using an AC voltmeter on the DTMF decoder input, then sending only the low tone (1 and 3 simultaneously) and measuring that audio level. They should be very close. If not, that's your problem. And the audio may be messed up somewhere in the middle. I've seen a situation where the receiver was de-emphasizing properly, but further upstream was a link transmitter with a off-value capacitor and it was over-pre-emphasizing (more than 6db). Any time you have folks messing with random capacitor and resistor values to make the audio sound right then things are suspect. You have to measure, and calculate, not guess. By the way, there are audio spectrum analyzer programs that let you see the sound card audio. If you have one you can view the twist, which is most visible on the A set of DTMF tones. If the decoder is receiving say over 10% distortion the low group tones will get into the high group causing problems. As is covered on that web page, and it happens on a lot less than 10% distortion. I quote: The tone frequencies used in DTMF were well thought out, but not far enough. Any distortion between the source and the decoder will result in intermodulation products being generated and the result will cause unreliable decoding. For example, use the classic 2A-B intermodulation calculation: The DTMF star button is 941 and 1209 Hertz. Twice 1209 = 2418,
[Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel...
Yes, this is off topic, but I thought I'd tap the combined experience of the 3000 plus group members... Over and above helping set up a couple of repeaters, I've been asked to help out a local Red Cross chapter in their Emergency Comm Center. The situation is that they have a number of operators that are familiar with one model (or brand) of radio, and on zero notice may be assigned to sit an a operating position (in either the fixed or mobile comm centers) that has a totally unfamiliar radio. I've requested a list of the ham radios in both comm centers. So far I know that there are three Yaesu FT7800 radios, and a number of Kenwoods including the 231 and 241.I've asked for a full list... Before I spend several evenings prepping writeups (that will be made into laminated cards) for various radios does anybody have a cheat sheet containing steps for the Yaesu 7800 for: (card 1 face) Operating Instructions using preprogrammed memory channels: 1. Turn on radio, adjust volume and squelch 2. (next step) 3. (next step) 4. Select VHF or UHF by pressing the button marked. 5) (next step) 6) (next step) Selecting memory channel 1) (step 1) 2) (next step) etc (flip side of card 1) Operating Instructions in VFO mode 1. Turn on radio, adjust volume and squelch 2. (next step) 3. (next step) 4. Select VHF or UHF by pressing the button marked. 5) (next step) 6) (next step) Selecting receive frequency 1) (step 1) 2) (next step) etc Selecting offset (i.e. the transmit frequency) 1) (step 1) 2) (next step) etc Selecting CTCSS encode tone 1) (step 1) 2) (next step) etc (card 2) Programming the radio (loading frequencies into memories) 1. Turn on radio, adjust volume and squelch 2. (next step) 3. (next step) 4. Select VHF or UHF by pressing the button marked. 5) (next step) 6) (next step) See other card for setting up radio in VFO mode Copying VFO to selected memory channel (note do not overwrite any existing memory channel) 1) (step 1) 2) (next step) etc Thanks in advance. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] DTMF Decoder
I still don't understand why the other program I ran on the same machine with the same sound card and the same connections had no problem decoding. Also my RC1000 has no problems decoding DTMF from the same repeater. Maybe it's just because you built such a fine product that it isn't bothered by things the bother Echolink :- Vern KI4ONW On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 16:25:21 -0600 (CST) Ron Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A 8870 and other DTMF decoders will work over a 10 db range of twist. The levels can be wide apart for the 2 tones are seperated and squared for a period averaging circuit. As for problems being ALMOST level related means not always. The posting should have said does not have flat audio, sorry. In most cases one does not. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Mike Morris WA6ILQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/03/25 Tue PM 02:52:58 CST To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] DTMF Decoder At 04:44 AM 03/25/08, you wrote: Vern, I have not used a sound card for DTMF decoding, but the decoder on the Echolink card (I am assuming for the repeaters you are using one) I find DTMF decoder problems are almost always level related. Not always Most decoders work over a reasonably wide range including twist (the difference between the high and low group tone levels). The ones in the phone company are usually tighter than most...they are very good. But they are designed to work in systems where the low frequency group tones and the high frequency group tones are close to the same level. There is a chart of the DTMF tones on the web page I referred to above. However, in radio systems one often does have the advantage of good flat audio. That's the zinger. It's not. Background info: Each touchtone digit is made up of a high frequency group tone and a low frequency group tone, as explained on http://www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/flataudio.html What many folks, especially newbies, don't understand is that the user's transmitter pre-emphasizes the audio (including all DTMF) at a rate of 6 dB per octave. In laymen's terms, the higher frequencies are transmitted at a higher deviation than the lower frequencies. If you were to listen to raw FM audio (that has been pre-emphasized), for example with a service monitor, it would sound very tinny. If you were to inject 1,000 Hz tone into the microphone jack at a level to get 1khz deviation and then change to 2,000 Hz the deviation would go up 6 dB. On the receiving end, the user's radio de-emphasizes the audio that was pre- emphasized by the repeater transmitter, returning it to normal audio on par with what went into the originating station's microphone jack. This has caught many folks over the years. Many how-to writeups over the years have commented that you want to tap into a receiver audio chain to get ahead of the volume control with the purpose of getting a constant level audio to feed, for example, a tape recorder or a repeater controller. If you are not intimately familiar with the recveiver you can tap the wrong point (and sometimes there is no right point). Many receiver designs have the volume control ahead of the squelch mute and the de-emphasis. As a result the audio fed to the decoder is NOT de-emphasized normal audio and won't decode properly. And it won't be until it is run through a de-emph network. Here's what I suspect you have. I'll bet that you have the DTMF decoder fed with twisted audio and of the wrong level.. When you say some digits work and some do not this is usually a level problem and usually requires a separate adjustment from other audios. The first thing to check is the pickoff point - is it truly de-emphasized? If the audio going into the decoder is pre-emphasized, then the high frequency group will be much louder, causing false or no decoding. This can be checked by sending the high tone separately (pressing A and D simultaneously (on a 16-button pad, or 3 and # if a 12-button is all you have) and using an AC voltmeter on the DTMF decoder input, then sending only the low tone (1 and 3 simultaneously) and measuring that audio level. They should be very close. If not, that's your problem. And the audio may be messed up somewhere in the middle. I've seen a situation where the receiver was de-emphasizing properly, but further upstream was a link transmitter with a off-value capacitor and it was over-pre-emphasizing (more than 6db). Any time you have folks messing with random capacitor and resistor values to make the audio sound right then things are suspect. You have to measure, and calculate, not guess. By the way, there are audio spectrum analyzer programs that let you see the sound card audio. If you have one you can view the twist, which is most visible on the A set of DTMF tones. If the decoder is receiving say over 10% distortion the low group tones will get into the
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel...
Mike, I would recommend all rigs be pre-set in a standard manner. That is in memories set same for various memories such as for VHF put in memory 1 the main freq with all needed. Same for rest of memories. The last thing one needs in an EOC setting is having to learn how to use a rig. Of course there will always be some kind of learning curve...just knowing where the mike gain, volume, squelch etc on rigs like HF rigs is either practiced before hand or the ops just have to learn. Again pre-program the memories. Having to program freq, offset, CTCSS, etc is normally not needed if pre-set and is a problem with new ops. Post a list of what freq does what in plane site right on the front of the station with freq memory. If main repeater and most used freq put in memory 1 in all, VHF and UHF. Memory 2 back up repeater, memory 3 simplex and then other repeaters that might be used. The one problem all emergency operations have the Hams showing up are there for the first time. So many Hams brag about the value of Ham Radio in a disaster, but few show up for regular meetings and it becomes difficult to have them trained. If you make up a 50 page book on procedures and operating standards it will be kinda useless. We just learned in my area that ARES/RACES will be put in charge of distributing radios, not just Ham rigs, in a disaster. If a group shows up with 20 radios and 20 people the gov will take some of the radios and assess where they would be needed. Well guess what, some of these are trunked rigs and we Hams have only seen on a deputy's belt or around the EOC, but never operated one. The deputy's who carries them daily do not know how to put them in emergency modes. 73, ron, n9ee/r ps Also label the antennas coming in the shack. From: Mike Morris WA6ILQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/03/25 Tue PM 05:28:50 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel... Yes, this is off topic, but I thought I'd tap the combined experience of the 3000 plus group members... Over and above helping set up a couple of repeaters, I've been asked to help out a local Red Cross chapter in their Emergency Comm Center. The situation is that they have a number of operators that are familiar with one model (or brand) of radio, and on zero notice may be assigned to sit an a operating position (in either the fixed or mobile comm centers) that has a totally unfamiliar radio. I've requested a list of the ham radios in both comm centers. So far I know that there are three Yaesu FT7800 radios, and a number of Kenwoods including the 231 and 241.I've asked for a full list... Before I spend several evenings prepping writeups (that will be made into laminated cards) for various radios does anybody have a cheat sheet containing steps for the Yaesu 7800 for: (card 1 face) Operating Instructions using preprogrammed memory channels: 1. Turn on radio, adjust volume and squelch 2. (next step) 3. (next step) 4. Select VHF or UHF by pressing the button marked. 5) (next step) 6) (next step) Selecting memory channel 1) (step 1) 2) (next step) etc (flip side of card 1) Operating Instructions in VFO mode 1. Turn on radio, adjust volume and squelch 2. (next step) 3. (next step) 4. Select VHF or UHF by pressing the button marked. 5) (next step) 6) (next step) Selecting receive frequency 1) (step 1) 2) (next step) etc Selecting offset (i.e. the transmit frequency) 1) (step 1) 2) (next step) etc Selecting CTCSS encode tone 1) (step 1) 2) (next step) etc (card 2) Programming the radio (loading frequencies into memories) 1. Turn on radio, adjust volume and squelch 2. (next step) 3. (next step) 4. Select VHF or UHF by pressing the button marked. 5) (next step) 6) (next step) See other card for setting up radio in VFO mode Copying VFO to selected memory channel (note do not overwrite any existing memory channel) 1) (step 1) 2) (next step) etc Thanks in advance. Mike WA6ILQ Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
